PDA

View Full Version : Week 194: Five Twenty Five



Mr_White
12-09-2016, 12:01 PM
Week 194: Five Twenty Five

Results may be posted until January 9th, 2017.

Designed by: Frank Proctor, adapted by Gabe White
Range: 25 yards
Target: 8.5x11" paper
Start Position: Shooter's choice of hands at sides, hands at high torso, or hands at surrender
Rounds Fired: 25
Par Time: 6 seconds

This is an adaptation of a Frank Proctor performance goal mentioned here: http://soldiersystems.net/2016/12/03/gunfighter-moment-frank-proctor-18/

Set up your target at 25 yards and set the par time for six seconds. At the start signal, draw and shoot 5 rounds to the 8.5x11" paper. Note any overtime shots. Repeat four times, for a total of five attempts (25 rounds.) Add up your points on target. Deduct any overtime shots to determine your final score. You can change targets as often as you want.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Equipment used: gun, holster, concealment (optional)
Number of overtime shots
Total score out of the possible 25
Observations: anything you noticed

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

MVS
12-10-2016, 12:24 PM
G19 w/RMR OWB Fricke Gideon heavy coat for concealment
4 overtime shots on first run.
19 hits on first run.

This was a good drill for the weather I had today so I ran it 5 times. By the 5th run I was shooting around 5 seconds a string and had 23 hits. The heavy coat really surprised me on the first run by how much it slowed me down. I don't normally carry OWB at all let alone with a heavy cover garment. The snow and cold sorta dictated that today. The time pressure had my targets looking like I had used a shotgun, but there is no doubt the RMR made it better than it would have been. I am going to have to try it with iron sights as well and see what king of difference there is. Another thing I noticed with the time pressure is that recoil control becomes important. This is not something I usually factor in at 25 yards and something, for me at least, that the cold makes harder.

Risto
12-13-2016, 03:34 PM
Glock 17, Defoor Sight, Safariland Duty Holster.

Shot the first sheet in 9.03, with only 3 hits in the time limit. Realized at this point, skills are definitely not up for this drill and times. Decided I would do a mixed mag of ball and dummy rounds in between a couple of the sheets.
12297

Shot the second sheet in 7.34, with several misses. Trying to hurry.
12298

Shot the third sheet in 11.38, with only 2 in the time limit. Really focused on grip.
12299

Shot the fourth sheet in 8.13, with 1 miss and only 3 in the time limit.
12300

Shot the fifth sheet in 6.30, with several misses and just couldn't pull it together in that time frame. (X marks)
12302

Shot a quick 10-10-10 drill to finish things off with some fun. 9.03
12301


All in all it sucked.

JHC
12-13-2016, 06:49 PM
Shot it with a G19 from open OWB.

No overtime shots, shot some bigly under 6.0.

19 hits

Key observations:

Yep, I still dislike shooting within a par time.

It's a lot harder than it reads.

JHC
12-13-2016, 06:51 PM
This one will be fun for shooting different guns and comparing results.

Doc_Glock
12-17-2016, 04:23 PM
Equipment used: gun, holster, concealment (optional)

FNS 9 Dawson fiber Sight Safariland GLS holster concealment
Number of overtime shots none
Total score out of the possible 25 10
Observations: anything you noticed

This is freaking hard. I had no difficulty get into sights back on target in the time limit, but it is clear my trigger pull isn't up to snuff at this distance.

Followed up with a walk back 5 yards at a time using same criteria. I got to 20 yards before dropping a shot and then it was a single. Somewhere between 20-25 yards I fall apart.


Equipment used: gun, holster, concealment (optional) Glock 19 Defoor sights, Safariland GLS concealment.
Number of overtime shots none
Total score out of the possible 25 9
Observations: anything you noticed

Same as above.

Did a walk back and dropped a single shot at 15 yards so maybe I fall apart between 15-25 yds. I think I would have to have the paper at 15 yards to score over 20 on this interesting drill.

Thanks Gabe.

Mr_White
12-17-2016, 09:03 PM
You're welcome. And I, in turn thank Kevin B. for suggesting it to me! He has been the source of quite a few of these, and I really appreciate it.

JHC
12-17-2016, 09:09 PM
You're welcome. And I, in turn thank Kevin B. for suggesting it to me! He has been the source of quite a few of these, and I really appreciate it.

NEWMAN!!!

Mr_White
12-17-2016, 09:14 PM
JHC has too. Thank you!

AsianJedi
12-18-2016, 06:20 PM
Gave it a go today.

All under time. Missed one..honestly I just think I did not count right, but not sure so I will take the hit. LOL.

Roland Special
From Concealment
AIWB
Hands at high torso

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/asianjedi/GB%205x25_zpsgjr57840.jpg

SLG
12-18-2016, 07:07 PM
That is some good shooting AJ. Not picking on you, but you know that dot and comp helped! :-)

I've been enjoying shooting my Roland, and will likely try this test tomorrow. First with my stock carry gun, then with my Roland. I know how that will play out...:-)

AsianJedi
12-18-2016, 10:52 PM
:cool:


That is some good shooting AJ. Not picking on you, but you know that dot and comp helped! :-)

I've been enjoying shooting my Roland, and will likely try this test tomorrow. First with my stock carry gun, then with my Roland. I know how that will play out...:-)

modrecoil
12-20-2016, 09:03 PM
Equipment used: stock Sig P320, factory holster, concealment vest
Number of overtime shots: 2
Total score out of the possible: 20 hits - 2 overtime = 18
Observations: This was my third run at this drill. First run on another range trip with Steyr L9 abandoned because of malfunctions and distractions. First run with brand new (to me) Sig P320 yielded 4 overtime shots. Couldn't find stock P320 front night sight and index very different from Steyr. But once dialed in, accuracy and split times were surprisingly (OMG, OMG, HIGH BORE AXIS!!!) good. Great, another platform change cash vortex is at hand.

Mr_White
12-22-2016, 01:25 AM
That is some good shooting AJ. Not picking on you, but you know that dot and comp helped! :-)

I've been enjoying shooting my Roland, and will likely try this test tomorrow. First with my stock carry gun, then with my Roland. I know how that will play out...:-)

So how did it play out?

Mr_White
12-22-2016, 01:35 AM
Gen3 G34, concealed in a Keeper under a polo shirt
No overtime shots
23/25
Guess I shoulda aimed a bit lower. Or better.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/1/423/30988314983_ce140c0071_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PdkdqP)20161221_172839 (https://flic.kr/p/PdkdqP) by OrigamiAK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

Duelist
12-28-2016, 11:02 AM
12673

This is harder than it should be if you forget your patch cable to plug your phone into your electronic ears so you can hear the beep from your timer app. LOL

Lacking an audible start signal, I held the phone in my left hand so I could see when the timer started and did three runs SHO. It was awkward, and I had a client appointment i didn't want to be late for, so I quit. I should have finished - there were only two rounds off paper. The times were slow, though. Lots of shots were over the par. I didn't count, though - I was mostly just seeing if I could do it.

SIG SP2022, leather OWB, covered under an open front heavy shirt. Outside temp about 62 F. I'll try it again later this week when I can get set up better.

JCS
01-01-2017, 12:11 PM
Quick question on the dotw.... if a shooters skill level isn't where he can do these at 25 yards is it acceptable to do them at say 15 or 20 yards?

Also what if I'm at a range that doesn't allow drawing from a holster? Is shooting from low ready acceptable?

backtrail540
01-01-2017, 05:36 PM
Not Mr White, but from past conversations i gather that whatever modifications are necessary to allow you to participate are ok. Just note the conditions in the post.

JHC
01-02-2017, 02:28 PM
Shot it with a G19 from open OWB.

No overtime shots, shot some bigly under 6.0.

19 hits

Key observations:

Yep, I still dislike shooting within a par time.

It's a lot harder than it reads.

Same OWB.

G17 - 17 hits

G26 - 15 hits

G19 with KKM comp - 14 hits

Dayim.

DocGKR
01-02-2017, 09:49 PM
Equipment used: G19 w/RMR07 and OEM stock barrel firing Fed 147gr FMJ AE9FP; JMC AIWB holster under a Gore-Tex rain jacket, fleece vest, and untucked shirt (it was raining and cold).
Number of overtime shots: 0
Total score out of the possible: 24 out of 25 (fumbled a draw and tried to make up for it by getting on the trigger too fast and put one a bit high left of the target)
Observations/anything you noticed: With the RMR on my pistol, longer range drills like this are actually easier than close-up stuff, however, I tended to shoot this too drill too fast (approx 4 sec per string) and needed to slow down a bit and use more of the 6 sec allowed.

Doc_Glock
01-02-2017, 11:36 PM
Observations/anything you noticed: With the RMR on my pistol, longer range drills like this are actually easier than close-up stuff, however, I tended to shoot this too drill too fast (approx 4 sec per string) and needed to slow down a bit and use more of the 6 sec allowed.

I ran an RMR slide for four years before giving up on it. It never made a difference to my scores when compared to irons at distance and slowed me down mid range, although obviously I am very much a work in progress with pistol shooting. It certainly was not something that bought skill with the trigger, grip, stance, etc.

Clearly you have put in a lot of good work along the way and the RMR now allows you to demonstrate your skills despite your eyesight issues. I believe my scores would be about the same with or without an RMR, but maybe after a few years of dedicated practice I may revisit the red dot handgun.

Mr_White
01-03-2017, 12:37 PM
Same OWB.

G17 - 17 hits

G26 - 15 hits

G19 with KKM comp - 14 hits

Dayim.

Very interesting, JHC. Any insight how the comped 19 came in below the non-comped guns? Just the way it shook out this time? Or do you have any ideas?

JHC
01-03-2017, 01:01 PM
Very interesting, JHC. Any insight how the comped 19 came in below the non-comped guns? Just the way it shook out this time? Or do you have any ideas?

Not many definitively. I was at a loss other than those two posts represent shooting a some days apart. I do know that re yesterday's post, the night earlier I consumed far LESS than my normal bourbon ration. I think I should repeat the experiment normalizing for that variation. ;)

Looking at the guns in more detail, the G17 is a Gen 3 with KKM barrel. The comped 19 is also a Gen 3 with that KKM barrel. The 26 is a Gen 4.
All but the 17 have HD sights, with the 17 set up with what should be the better 25 yard sights - Proctors narrow square rear and .125 FO front.

The comped G19 got unfairly handicapped with it's too short for it, .215 tall HD front post; and it impacts a bit high. I tried to adjust by trying to hold lower but in a quick string I probably failed to do so adequately as there were a good many misses just off the paper at 12:00.

OTOH, the G19 I have thus far scored best with, is not just any G19. It's an HD sighted RTF2 G19 that always shot lights out in my hands. With the KKM barrel it just got better. Recently in a 150 aggregate warm up using it I warmed up with a 50 for the first freestyle phase. Upon many warm up 150 aggregates, that was my first 50 in a warmup. It certainly has the best grip texture. It is def one of my top two fav's.

The ammunition has been consistent; GECO 124 grain which has shown itself the equal of my Lawman ammo.

Trigger weights and feel are all very similiar; minus OEM connectors all around. No other internals changed.

Just a "any given Sunday" is probably the biggest thing.

Mr_White
01-03-2017, 01:06 PM
Just a "any given Sunday" is probably the biggest thing.

Makes sense to me. Thanks for the extra info!

JHC
01-03-2017, 01:19 PM
Makes sense to me. Thanks for the extra info!

I'm going to repeat some portion of that for sure. It's bugging me.

Clobbersaurus
01-08-2017, 10:33 AM
PX4 Storm, BladeTech OWB holster.

No overtime shots.

Raw times:
1) 4.75
2) 4.36
3) 4.81
4) 4.88
5) 4.42

Score 21/25

This drill went much better than the GM test. I focussed on clamping down hard on the gun and really watching the front sight. The missed shots were quite wide though and I sould have utilized the additional time I had to refine sight pictures.

http://i.imgur.com/oMfzj6C.jpg

Big Iron
01-08-2017, 01:38 PM
Welp... I did wall drills for ten minutes every night all week since the 700. Wednesday I started drawing dry to an index card at three yards with a 1.5 second par for ten minutes after my wall drills.
P2000 LEM in JMCK OWB1 hands at sides carhartt jacket unzipped.


Raw times
1 - 5.79
2 - 5.61
3 - 4.46
4 - 6.15
5 - 5.02

7/25

That's right SEVEN hits. Four of them were in the first string and I goosegged the fourth and fifth strings. I'm somewhat embarrassed but I am learning how that beep going off causes me to lose my mind.

98z28
01-09-2017, 03:04 PM
Equipment used: Glock 34 gen4 with Meprolight night sights and dot connector, Safariland GLS OWB under a winter coat (it was 30 degrees at the range this morning).

Number of overtime shots: 0

Total score out of the possible 25: 14/25

Observations: anything you noticed:

Taking over a month off of live and dry fire really screws with your trigger control. All missed shots were low and left within a couple inches of the paper. I was watching the front sight drop, but couldn't keep from pulling it down.

This is a new gun to me and I don't like the sights one bit, so I repeated the drill using a G19 with Defoor sights I had been shooting before the break. Hit 11/25. So it's definitely me, not the thick front sight.

This the first time I've put rounds through a G34. I prefer the way a G19 cycles. The G19 cycles faster and more predictably than the G34 (less sight wobble during recoil and settling). The G34 felt sloppy and sluggish in comparison, though it also felt much "softer". I've never thought of a G19 has a harsh recoiling gun, but compared to a G34 it feels like a 40. I ran this drill three times with each gun and consistently had fewer misses with the g34, even though the G34 had the craptastic Meprolight sights and the G19 had the thinner Defoor front. Maxed out at 20/25 with the G34. Not sure if there's anything to it beyond new awesome gun syndrome, but I definitely will have fun investigating.

I REALLY like this drill. It's like a more demanding version of "The Test". Will keep this one in my back pocket and hit again after I've been shooting regularly for a few weeks.