Accessibility V. Concealment in the Winter [Archive]

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Cypher

12-04-2016, 11:30 PM

My question is how do you balance concealment with accessibility in the winter.

This morning I had my gun under a shirt under a coat and all I could think of was how many layers of clothing I was going to have to dig through if I had to get to that gun. I tried tucking the shirt behind the gun and wearing the coat over but I might has well stuffed a pillow under my jacket.

I could wear less under the coat but then when I get where I'm going and I'm inside the heated building I'm going to stand out like a sore thumb.

I'm thinking of just wearing some poly-pros and silks under my outer layer but then I stand out like a sore thumb walking around outside with temperatures in the teens and no coat plus the poly-pros actually work and any thing warm enough to keep me outside is going to make me sweat like a pig inside.

I will not carry a gun in my coat pocket unless I'm going to be out in it for a while and not taking the coat off.

Some of the time I can wear medium long johns under a flannel shirt and just wear a fleece vest maybe I can just make that my winter uniform.

How do you guys dress for the cold and still keep your handgun accessible?

msstate56

12-05-2016, 12:47 AM

I'd like others from up north's opinions on this as well. I'd like to piggyback on to this and ask if there are any snow skiers/ snowmobilers that carry. I'm from the land of "oh my God what is this white stuff that's not even sticking to the ground," but I like to travel north to enjoy winter sports. So far I've basically been pocket carrying in my ski jacket, but that's obviously not ideal. My normal mode of carry is 4 o'clock IWB when not bundled up. Thanks.

Dave J

12-05-2016, 01:39 AM

With AIWB, it's usually not too difficult to clear multiple layers of clothing at once, at least for my normal manner of dress. Typically I have an outer jacket, and some type of untucked L/S pullover shirt covering the gun. Ideally, your innermost layer over the gun is about as long or longer than the other layers, so when you grab it to clear, everything else just moves along with it. (hopefully that description makes sense!)

If conditions require so much clothing that an AIWB draw is no longer feasible, I'm a big fan of a BUG in an outer coat pocket, and I wear an extra holster on the belt so I've got a place to stow it if the coat needs to come off. The pocket holster just stays with the coat, and the BUG goes behind the hip in an OWB pancake, since my primary is riding AIWB. I don't do that often, but it's worked well for me on several occasions.

GMSweet

12-05-2016, 05:35 AM

NH here... I'm a warm blooded guy and most who know me realize that winter wear for me isn't a coat. Thin gloves for cold days, add a scarf for colder days, and ear muffs for really cold days. I get by mostly with fleece and two inner layers. I carry at 3:00/3:30 and my problem with most coats are the shock cords at 3 and 9 so I keep a couple of soft-shell zip ups that are over sized just in case it's below zero and I need to be out without being active.

If I were to take up snowmobiling again, I would likely look at something like the Berne Echo Zero to move my pistol off my hip but still have it holstered and available. I have no personal experience with the product, but I like the concept and I wouldn't have to worry about wearing snow pants getting in the way. Especially since I used to only wear long underwear as a lower base layer even at -20.

Oh, and good warm socks/boots. If my feet get cold, I'm done for.

BTW, I am not one of the fashion guys wearing a business style trench, short trench, or pea coat like many of my coworkers.

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jetfire

12-05-2016, 06:00 AM

JHC

12-05-2016, 06:50 AM

Hambo

12-05-2016, 06:52 AM

Short version: winter carry sucks and I want to move to Florida.

We do have issues with winter carry in Florida. It's just that it's for three days instead of 3-4 months.

TGS

12-05-2016, 06:56 AM

I don't know if my opinion works for the Rockies. Where I currently live, cold is enduring a sub-optimal heating system in the building or being outside for relatively short periods of time. This is accomplished by AIWB with a shirt, sweater, and regular jacket or OWB in a suit with a 3/4 length topcoat, maybe a sweater underneath the suit jacket too.

It doesn't change my draw very much in either option. With a shorter casual jacket, I can leave it unbuttoned or buttoned. With a longer jacket like the top coat, the jacket must be unbuttoned.

TGS

12-05-2016, 07:21 AM

Not to pimp my own work but I literally just did a video about this. It's already 15 minutes long so I couldn't cover all the different methods people carry, so if your personal method isn't in there, I'm sorry.

https://youtu.be/ycwiDmMVJXM

Short version: winter carry sucks and I want to move to Florida. I do carry a pocket gun a lot of the time when the temps get below 20 up here.

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Didn't watch the whole thing, so sorry if I missed it, but..

why unzip the outer jacket/vest? That seems like a really bad idea prone to failure, especially since it's not something you practice under stress and you don't have a big EDC pull cord like on Vertx gear.

If I zip up my outer jacket, I just use my entire hand as a hook and then crush to lift up both garments (or just the jacket, if I'm not wearing a sweater over the gun as well.

OnionsAndDragons

12-05-2016, 07:34 AM

Two things I rely on a goodly bit:

Layers. A fleece lined hoodie is part of my essential wardrobe in the fall and winter months, and is often my cover garment. If I have to look presentable, I will wear a decent polo or some such under it with a performance T of some sort, and just cover the gun with the polo in the bathroom as soon as I get to my destination.

In the deep winter I will wear the above hoodie as my middle layer, concealing the gun, with a heavy coat that has a bifurcated zipper system. I keep the top all zipped up, but unzip the bottom up to my waist, so all I have to grab and clear is my hoodie as in my standard aiwb draw.

If it's super-monkey-balls-freezing-cold I may run a pocket J-frame in the jacket, but that is not a preference.

43Under

12-05-2016, 08:08 AM

In the deep winter I will wear the above hoodie as my middle layer, concealing the gun, with a heavy coat that has a bifurcated zipper system. I keep the top all zipped up, but unzip the bottom up to my waist, so all I have to grab and clear is my hoodie as in my standard aiwb draw.

^This is key and it bothers the hell out if me that all these fancy schmancy jacket makers that seem to cater to "our" crowd don't make their jackets with the dual zippers.

SLG

12-05-2016, 08:22 AM

I have dealt with extreme cold for a fair amount of years. I basically do what onions and dragons layed out, with some variation as to how dressy the concealing layer needs to be for where I will be going.

I don't snowboard, but the few times I skied, I just wore my normal gear, but accepted the fact that I would be slower by closing up my jacket all the way. No big deal.

I wear PIG gloves, and keep my hands in my pockets as much as possible for warmth when needed. I never wear bulky gloves, unless a long gun is in my hands.

jetfire

12-05-2016, 08:43 AM

Didn't watch the whole thing, so sorry if I missed it, but..

why unzip the outer jacket/vest? That seems like a really bad idea prone to failure, especially since it's not something you practice under stress and you don't have a big EDC pull cord like on Vertx gear.

If I zip up my outer jacket, I just use my entire hand as a hook and then crush to lift up both garments (or just the jacket, if I'm not wearing a sweater over the gun as well.

That vest is a poor example, because it's designed to be lifted away from a gun; however a lot of the zippered stuff I wear when it's really cold is fitted, so it won't lift up and away to clear a gun.

With that vest, I'd probably run one of the side flaps unzipped and just do a relatively normal AIWB draw.

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taadski

12-05-2016, 01:30 PM

I figured I’d chime in on this one. I live at about 9000’ in the San Juans and it’s truly winter here 7+ months a year. I spend a good portion of my time both at work and during my free time outdoors. I typically spend 60 or more days a year with skis on my feet.

My standard is still AIWB. As it gets colder, in particular if I’m going to be active in the cold, I’ll have thin base layers tucked in under the gun.

I find the following to help:

-Keep under-layers on the thinner side such that they can be tucked in without excessive discomfort.

-Keep mid-layers fewer. If more insulation is required, go heavier rather than having a bunch of thinner layers confounding things. I typically wear something along the lines of an Arcteryx Atom or a Patagonia nano hoody as a mid layer in colder weather. Then if needed I’ll add a hard shell+ over it. Same concept as the hoody sweatshirt, but with real “R value” and moisture wicking capability.

-Develop a garment clearing technique that doesn't rely on a particular hang or specific type of clothing. For me personally, that means not relying on having my fingers underneath the edge of the coat or shirt. But instead I focus on grasping a fistful of material at or slightly above the gun then clearing from there. I don’t ever plan on manipulating zippers as part of my draw. My sentiment is if you’re relying on doing so in the cold, potentially with gloves, under stress, you’re stacking the odds against you.

This "heavier clothing technique" is incidentally very similar to an appendix draw from beneath a tucked in garment (dress shirt, uniform shirt, etc.) I carry my backup at work in this fashion, so the technique segues nicely.

Just a couple cents.

t

Cypher

12-05-2016, 02:02 PM

Thanks to everyone who has responded thus far

RevolverRob

12-05-2016, 02:25 PM

I have four solutions to winter carry. Three of which are sub-optimal.

Sub-optimal 1: and my most often used mode. AIWB with a t-shirt on and a sweater over the top. I like the knit sweaters from LL Bean, with the elastic waistband. I buy them a tad too long (not difficult to do at my 5'7" height), so that they extend a couple of inches past the waist of my pants. I buy them in dark colors and patterns (again not hard to do). This allows me plenty of concealment with quick accessing. - For the weather, when I need a coat (basically, anything under 45-degrees for me). I want to go with an open coat or if absolutely necessary to button the coat up - I wear a toggle coat. The toggle coat is easier to unbutton/release than anything with zippers. - This is suboptimal, because it is less layers and therefore doesn't keep you as warm. But this works well for me to about 10-15 degrees unless the wind is blowing super hard.

Sub-optimal 2: Parka-time. It's cold as fuck and I have to break out the gigantic parka. - J-Frame in the hand warmer pocket of my parka. This is the pocket up high on the chest, that gets your hands closer to your core. Works well, for having a gun in hand and staying warm. This is in some ways less sub-optimal than my sweater/coat combo, but it has the disadvantage of being in a gigantic parka that limits your mobility and vision.

Sub-optimal 3: The one I'm starting to experiment with - Off body carry. A sling bag that can carry my daily gear + a gun. Is ideal for me, in the sense that I am always with my bag, and it has the advantage of being the outermost layer of whatever I am wearing. Down-side(s) all of them that come with off-body carry.

Optimal Solution - This is the one I want to do the most - Move back to Texas from Chicago.

Dropkick

12-05-2016, 03:04 PM

Cypher

12-05-2016, 03:43 PM

Off body carry scares me because I am convinced it's not a question of if but when I'm going to forget that bag

RevolverRob

12-05-2016, 04:07 PM

On the topic of Gloves...
Last year I think I posted on here that I was trying out "pop top convertible mitten finger-less gloves" or whatever you call them. Anyways, they didn't work out as well I as had hoped. For pocket carry, having them flipped up in finger-less glove mode made them too bulky to get into the pocket easy. And having them in mitten mode, I could get into my pocket okay, but then my trigger finger was covered up. doh.

Anyways, that brings me to this year's test. Straight up finger-less gloves, specifically black USGI wool ones. They look hobo-chic' with the added benefit of being able to use a smart phone a whole lot easier than "smart" gloves. I'm a little worried about my finger tips getting cold, but most of the time I'm only a short walk in between my vehicle and home / work. But we'll see if they hold up to clearing snow off the vehicle.

Gloves are the hardest thing to get "right". It seems so simple and yet is so hard. The bottomline the fingerless wool ones won't work well if you're clearing the car of heavy snow. Instead, go with two pairs of gloves. Where your Glomitts for clearing the car, then take them off when you get inside. This protects your hands the most. They will be wet and the wool takes awhile to dry, so then go to a different pair like your fingerless gloves.

For temps in the 30s, fingerless rag wool from Fox River get the nod - https://www.foxsox.com/products/mid-weight-1?variant=21285799105

For temps below that Outdoor Research Alibi II Ice-Climbing Gloves - https://www.outdoorresearch.com/en/alibi-ii-gloves-62e6eb4751db2e8b2a6e74a9977d2d57.html

The ice-climbing gloves are as close to perfect for a pair of nearly do-all winter gloves. They fit tight and have great dexterity allowing me to actually shoot a J-Frame in them. They're fairly waterproof (waterproofing works two ways, unfortunately in AND out and that means if you start sweating inside you're boned), while still wicking moisture away. The downside is they don't cover the wrist (heat loss). You trade warmth for dexterity. The Alibi IIs are the best $80 investment I've ever made in winter gear. Between those gloves and this bad ass hat by Crye Precision - https://www.cryeprecision.com/ProductDetail/acchs102000_skullcap - You will be fine with most other layers.

The Skullcap by Crye - is legitimately worth the money, especially if you wear glasses/other eyewear regularly. The eye-piece tunnels are FUCKING GENIUS. They reduce the wind blowing into your hat. The cut of the hat doesn't impede peripheral vision like other hats. With the dexterity offered by the Alibi IIs. A mid-weight layering piece liked Prometheus Design Werx's JAAC Hoodie, and either a softshell or a coat, you're maximally prepared for winter.

Cypher

12-05-2016, 04:21 PM

My hands and feet don't get cold as long as I'm moving so I either forgo the gloves or if I'm going to be opening gates or have to hang onto a fence to keep from falling I wear these thin cop gloves that they use to search people without getting stuck.

That Guy

12-05-2016, 06:18 PM

I'm not one of the cool kids who do AIWB, so I'm looking at things from regular strong side carry perspective. That said...

How do you guys dress for the cold and still keep your handgun accessible?

I've been playing lately with waist-length jackets with elastic waists. Yank the jacket up, it should drag any layers underneath it and over the holster up. The issue is, depending on the amount of stuff you wear, you might end up with a bunch of bunched up fabric forming a "ledge" of sorts above the grip of your gun. Still though, I find this a lot better than a lot of the usually mentioned options. You can actually wear a jacket fully closed with this method, for example.

(Although to be honest, if it's really cold at the range, I'm typically more likely to switch to a dropped and offset or dropleg holster. Doing lots of draws from underneath a jacket is a good way to lose a lot of body heat. (A waist-length jacket is neat with these open carry holsters as well though, since the jacket is short enough not to get in the way of the holster.) So, I admit I don't do as much reps with winter concealment that I could, but... Screw that, it gets cold. :p )

why unzip the outer jacket/vest? That seems like a really bad idea prone to failure

That caught my eye as well. Better to have the outer layer loose enough that you can just pull it up.

Gloves are the hardest thing to get "right". It seems so simple and yet is so hard.

Glove liners are really, really great. Super thin little liners that, when combined with a "meh" winter glove keep your hands much warmer than a single glove layer could. And since they are so thin, you really don't take much of a dexterity hit with them. Much recommend.

BehindBlueI's

12-05-2016, 06:20 PM

My question is how do you balance concealment with accessibility in the winter.

Coats with deep pockets. Pocket gun in the outside layer for when speed of access is critical. Duty sized gun on belt for when I've got time to get to it.

RevolverRob

12-05-2016, 06:32 PM

Off body carry scares me because I am convinced it's not a question of if but when I'm going to forget that bag

I concur. It is very context dependent. For someone who works in an urban environment and cannot adequately tailor their clothing to suit their winter-carry needs, it represents a good compromise. Simply put, most business/business casual clothes of any season are not suitable for concealed carry in an office environment (with widely varying interior/exterior temperature ranges).

But if you're outside in the winter a lot, two guns, one in the pocket, and one on the belt is probably the best solution.

TGS

12-05-2016, 06:37 PM

Simply put, most business/business casual clothes of any season are not suitable for concealed carry in an office environment (with widely varying interior/exterior temperature ranges).

Really?

Granted, most people in my office carry a gun so I may have a different way of looking at it.......but how is a sweater and sportscoat not suitable for concealed carry?

It seems like an odd claim to me, given what you described is the standard dress code for security attaches and close protection officers the world over who carry guns around people who get the heebie-jeebies from guns.

RevolverRob

12-05-2016, 06:57 PM

Really?

Granted, most people in my office carry a gun so I may have a different way of looking at it.......but how is a sweater and sportscoat not suitable for concealed carry?

It seems like an odd claim to me, given what you described is the standard dress code for security attaches and close protection officers the world over who carry guns around people who get the heebie-jeebies from guns.

Well, I'm referring to off-body carry in a year-round context not just winter. Although, I am finding it to be an interesting solution in winter.

A sweater isn't too bad. A sportscoat can be. The issue stems from two common issues that people who do executive protection, for instance, may not have to deal with. The first is interior temperature. Buildings are usually super-heated or super-air conditioned. Which means that a long-sleeve, heavier, cover garment may not work. In my case, especially, I start sweating like a Whore in Church just about the instant I put an extra layer on in my office, when the heat is on. And the coat/sweater doesn't work in the summer at least where I live. Super-light sports-coats can, but they usually don't conceal/cover as well. The second is the cut of most off-the-rack stuff. It isn't as conducive to concealed carry as it seems. Having things tailored around your gun helps A TON. As in, really, really, helps. But if you're buying off-the-rack on a limited budget, it makes life difficult.

Exec Protection gets three benefits here: 1) They move around a lot and therefore are not subject to the same rigors as someone who works day-in-day-out in an office. Which includes the temperature issue. 2) They make better dollars than most and can have their clothing tailored to their needs. 3) They are exec protection. Sure they aren't supposed to show their guns, but people KNOW they have them. Which means a little slip here and there isn't the end of the world.

Dave in middle management in The Loop in Chicago? - His career could be DOA if his boss finds out he is packing a P30SK under his sport-coat. Hence the plethora of very good deep-concealment options for office workers. Off-body can make a lot of sense for Dave, if he can lock his office or a filing cabinet with his bag in it, when he needs to go to a meeting. Or better yet, if he can just take his briefcase/messenger bag with him when he goes to that meeting. No worries about being "made" in this sense. And contrary to what "switched on" people think. I've not, in years and years of working in Academic/Office Environments ever had someone go, "Is that a military backpack? Do you have a gun in there?" - Despite carrying some obvious .Mil inspired gear. Black. Just go Basic Black. And you can't go wrong.

-Rob

Gray222

12-05-2016, 09:29 PM

I have found that if you invest in quality winter clothing items your carry method doesn't change too much.

Only thing I do for the winter us wear merino wool trousers, socks, start wearing long sleeve shirts and heavier cotton long sleeve button down shirts as well as an Arc'teryx jacket. With some gloves and hat, my carry position and style doesn't change.

I guess I could probably get away with carrying owb strong side, but I just don't need to.

BaiHu

12-05-2016, 10:51 PM

All great info, but how about hearing more about the shipping container Caleb is sporting around him? Do want!
http://www.shootingrangeindustries.com/modular-shooting-solutions/

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1911nerd

12-05-2016, 11:36 PM

I've used the Hill People Gear chest rig when skiing in UT to good effect.

I'd like others from up north's opinions on this as well. I'd like to piggyback on to this and ask if there are any snow skiers/ snowmobilers that carry. I'm from the land of "oh my God what is this white stuff that's not even sticking to the ground," but I like to travel north to enjoy winter sports. So far I've basically been pocket carrying in my ski jacket, but that's obviously not ideal. My normal mode of carry is 4 o'clock IWB when not bundled up. Thanks.

Cypher

12-06-2016, 12:02 AM

Cypher

12-06-2016, 12:09 AM

Maybe if I provide some background it will clarify my situation.

I work as a security guard in Colorado Springs. I work nights and I spend the majority of my night out doors and am moderately active in all weather conditions. Concealment isn't a concern in that situation.

I'm not a cop but there are enough similarities that I watch them to see what they do that I can adapt for my use. One of the things I noticed right off is that NONE of them wear coats unless they're in a static environment (accident scene). As a result I don't wear my coat at work unless I am going to be out of the car more than half an hour. My company issues us cop coats that have a split on each side to go around your gun.

I use the Army's ECWCS system under my uniform and it works well enough that I have to turn the heat in my car WAAAAAY down when I'm dressed like that (Trainees hate me).

For headgear my wife bought me a Thinsulate beanie at Walmart that is the warmest hat I've ever worn

When I'm not at work I tend to either wear jeans and a flannel or 5.11s ( I used to work for a company that issued them as uniform and I have 3 or 4 pairs)and a pull over.

I think I'm going to end up layering up under the pull over and going with the 2 gun concept.

jetfire

12-06-2016, 09:39 PM

RevolverRob

12-06-2016, 09:53 PM

It's pretty rad.

But what's it $$$$ man? Because I'm all for the cool and convenience factor. But I'm guessing it is cheaper to buy 25 acres in Texas and rent a bulldozer for a weekend to build a berm...

jetfire

12-06-2016, 09:59 PM

But what's it $$$$ man? Because I'm all for the cool and convenience factor. But I'm guessing it is cheaper to buy 25 acres in Texas and rent a bulldozer for a weekend to build a berm...

Depends on how you option it out. Ours is pretty basic, it's only 7 yards deep but it does have a built in MILO system (which is like a live-fire FATS training for my cops out there) so it ran about 250k. Subtract the MILO and you're probably sub $200k for the seven yard system. You can build them out as deep as 500 feet, but why you'd do that I have no idea. I'm interested in doing a basic build that's about 25 yards long so I can practice for Bianchi Cup.

RevolverRob

12-06-2016, 11:05 PM

Depends on how you option it out. Ours is pretty basic, it's only 7 yards deep but it does have a built in MILO system (which is like a live-fire FATS training for my cops out there) so it ran about 250k. Subtract the MILO and you're probably sub $200k for the seven yard system. You can build them out as deep as 500 feet, but why you'd do that I have no idea. I'm interested in doing a basic build that's about 25 yards long so I can practice for Bianchi Cup.

Well, that's a nice setup and value for the cash. I figured the pricing was about 175k+ depending on options.

But it turns out that...200k buys me about 2/3rds of 25+ Acres, a house, an oversized garage, and a guest house for the in-laws to visit me, right in Texas, where I can apply my optimal winter carry solution - No winter.

NEPAKevin

12-07-2016, 12:00 PM

...where I can apply my optimal winter carry solution - No winter.

Two words, first one rhymes with duck and the second, with zoo. :)

RevolverRob

12-07-2016, 07:16 PM

Two words, first one rhymes with duck and the second, with zoo. :)

Cluck moo?

MistWolf

12-08-2016, 04:14 AM

Two words, first one rhymes with duck and the second, with zoo. :)

You ain't missing much. Winter may only be 15 minutes long in Texas, but the rest of the year is miserably hot & humid

Cypher

12-08-2016, 10:06 AM

You ain't missing much. Winter may only be 15 minutes long in Texas, but the rest of the year is miserably hot & humid

I lived in Houston and was stationed in San Antonio, muggy as hell most of the year. People don't know that Houston has swamps and alligators

SLG

12-08-2016, 10:12 AM

It's pretty rad.

You bought one?

NEPAKevin

12-08-2016, 12:48 PM

Cluck moo?

There's a local restaurant chain called Cluck-U (http://www.cluckuchicken.com/) that gained some notoriety due to their dancing chickens.

http://youtu.be/Q55PdcI5Ogc

If it hasn't been already mentioned, one idea that someone posted in a previous winter carry thread that I think works well is to add pull strings (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BWWI5O/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1) to the zipper so it is easier to grab. You just don't want one to accidentally get into the trigger guard during the holster.

MistWolf

12-08-2016, 01:09 PM

It's been my experience that hastily pulled zippers can get jammed tight

blues

12-08-2016, 01:18 PM

It's been my experience that hastily pulled zippers can get jammed tight

Don't know if it's been mentioned...but lip balm (chapstick) does a good job of keeping zippers from binding and it's easy to apply without making a mess of things.

RevolverRob

12-08-2016, 01:24 PM

Don't know if it's been mentioned...but lip balm (chapstick) does a good job of keeping zippers from binding and it's easy to apply without making a mess of things.

Also wax. Lightly warmed wax or even just room-temperature will smooth things right along.

Lost River

12-08-2016, 02:24 PM

For daily carry in social settings, I just run my regular belt rig and understand that I will be a bit slower getting to my primary.

That said, I pretty much always have a J Frame in my front off side pants pocket. Sometimes in cold weather however, I will slip it into an off side jacket pocket. It is pretty easy to have a full firing grip inside a large winter coat, and if needed I can simply shoot through the pocket itself. Another advantage of running a J Frame as a secondary piece.

For outdoor rec stuff, it depends on what I am doing, but either a Hill People Gear kit bag, or EPS tanker rig work pretty well. With the EPS tanker, I normally wear it over my insulating layers, under my goretex shell. That way it stays accessible, yet the gun is protected reasonably well from inclement weather.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/2016%20deer%20elk/P1010687_zpscnbg3svl.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/2016%20deer%20elk/P1010687_zpscnbg3svl.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/009-2.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/009-2.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Oct2407YotehuntSanitized.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Oct2407YotehuntSanitized.jpg.html)

jetfire

12-08-2016, 03:19 PM

You bought one?

My company did. I use it for winter training, despite the fact that it's only 7 yards deep because I hate shooting in the fuckass SD cold.

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NEPAKevin

12-08-2016, 04:07 PM

I half recall Ernie Langdon telling a story during a class break that had a very astute quote re avoiding being miserable while shooting but for the life of me I can't remember it right now.

Clusterfrack

12-08-2016, 05:20 PM

Interesting thread. After watching Caleb's video, I experimented with my winter gear and found what works well for me.

Clothes: Big puffy jacket (zipped completely) and sweater.
Gun: G19 w/SF XC-1
Holster: JMCK AIWB
Starting position: hands in pockets
Time to draw and dry fire 1 shot: 1.2 to 1.3s
Technique: grab front of jacket and sweater with both hands, and pull out and up. Then draw as usual.

Clusterfrack

12-08-2016, 06:38 PM

https://vimeo.com/194903034

Hambo

12-08-2016, 07:09 PM

My company did. I use it for winter training, despite the fact that it's only 7 yards deep because I hate shooting in the fuckass SD cold.

You're probably liking it this week from what I see on the weather.

MistWolf

12-08-2016, 07:20 PM

Don't know if it's been mentioned...but lip balm (chapstick) does a good job of keeping zippers from binding and it's easy to apply without making a mess of things.

I have one very warm jacket that if I'm not careful, the material gets caught in the zipper

jetfire

12-09-2016, 08:49 AM

You're probably liking it this week from what I see on the weather.

I would have, but I spent the week in south Florida. Basically the Caribbean. And it was amazing.

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Hi-Point Aficionado

12-09-2016, 10:02 AM

...I'd like to piggyback on to this and ask if there are any snow skiers/ snowmobilers that carry...

For Alpine skiing on a mountain, my Glock 42 AIWB. The light weight of the gun makes it have less inertia to pop out of the holster when I wipe-out. I've carried a Beretta 96, Glock 23, Glock 27, original LCP, and S&W model 36 at some point or other while skiing in the past. All holsters had retention set to about rip my belt off. It's no biggie, just rock what you got. A customer contacted me once to ask if I could add a retention strap like the folks at First Spear (http://www.first-spear.com/product.php?productid=17844&cat=307&page=1&featured=Y). It struck me as a reasonable and dead simple way to add active retention to a kydex rig while throwing yourself around that you can remover when you hit the bathroom at the lodge:

http://i.imgur.com/ACto5Ywl.jpg

Were I to resume skiing moguls, I'd loop some shock cord or paracord through the eyelet of my holster as a retention thong in a heartbeat. It'll usually be a midsize auto AIWB if I'm just hitting the local ropetow. And I absolutely, positively discourage brand new skiers from packing heat. Figure out what's going on before you strap a chunk of steel to your hip and find out how much that sucker will hurt to hit at 20+ mph. And make sure your holster has some adequate retention for the situation.

Nordic skiing is fairly physically intense, especially when you suck at it as hard as I do. I like OWB of a small auto here to keep the damn gun out of my way. AIWB with my 42 works okay for short morning stints. You'll be stoking the metabolic furnace something fierce on XC skis so clothing is light and I often wind up in thin or no gloves in the first place but do have poles to disengage from.

Snowmobiling is whatever you're comfortable with while seated (often hunched over and rocking around, actually) for extended periods. Clothing and gloves are thick through a combination of windchill and the rider's relatively sedentary state keeping their body temp down. A small auto or revolver stashed in an outer pocket may be a good idea, here.

Winter hiking tempts me to ditch a gun entirely. I've got an ice axe in my hands any time I'm above treeline and often below. There are also other far more pressing safety concern on my mind. A tiny auto in a pocket can work though may leave your thigh sore by the end of a long hike. Coat pocket carry is out as my layers are constantly changing. AIWB of the 42 is my default but winds up buried under my pack waistbelt. And I'm not leaving my gun strapped to the pack as they have a tendency to roll back downhill at speed when you take them off for a break. If I was doing regular rope work and spending time in a harness, waistband carry would be out for me, though.

E: I'm going to go ahead and climb on my soap box. 99% of people engaging in wintertime outdoor activities are totally unprepared for an emergency. You have a long list of items on your essentials list that need consideration before a gun but almost no one does. Trees and jumps kill alpine skiiers. Poor/no helmets, improperly set bindings, and cocky attitudes make it far more likely. The cold kills hikers who go light for a quick stint that turns into an overnight. A cocky attitude on technical terrain kills them faster. Drunks, deadfalls, heavy thumbs on the throttle, poor/no helmets, and breakdowns kill snowmobilers. Please promise you'll carry the genuinely esential gear and get it sorted before you even care about a sidearm. The local high school dismisses staff and students to volunteer with search teams every god damn winter. And EMS crews burn out when they deliver a corpse from the ski resort to the nearest emergency unit.