Question on .40 Durability: HK VP40 vs HK P30

[JonInWA]

Despite having a flawless performing VP40 to date, I will admit that the MAC test hiccups with 3 separate VP9s have raised some concurrent questions at least in the background of my mind regarding potential issue carry-over to the VP40. While I've been reassured by an exceptionally experienced and well-regarded member of the forum here as to the inherent empirically experienced and observed overall stellar qualities of the VPs (both 9mm and .40 versions), I still have some residual nagging concerns that refuse to be totally put to rest to date.

While my VP40 is going nowhere (in fact, I'm carrying it now), I have seen some of the exceptional bargain-pricing going on by HK with some of their .40 P30s. Specifically, I handled a P30L in V1/light LEM in the law enforcement package, with Meprolight tritium sights and presumably 3 magazines, for well under $700. That's pretty tempting. The V1 triggerpull was quite nice (with an advertised pull weight of 4.5 lbs) and seemed exceptionally comparable to the VP40's pull weight of around 5.4 lbs. Reset was nice on the P30L V1, but a bit longer than the VP reset distance.

I do have one question, though, regarding the P30's durability in .40 chambering. With the VP40, HK significantly beefed up the slide, both materially (adding some 2.37 oz) and dimensionally both width- and height-wise). as well as providing a heaver-weighted flatwire recoil spring (although HK is now using the VP40 RSA as the across-the-board one for all VPs, upgrading the previously lighter-sprung VP9 RSAs). However, the P30 slide weights and dimensions for the .40 variants are exactly the same as their 9mm variants....which leads me to think that the only engineering differences between 9mm and .40 variants are in the RSA weights, extractors, and slide muzzle hole size, and barrel dimensioning.

Over the years, we've certainty seen how this minimalist differentiation approach has worked with other platforms-that is, not necessarily well, particularly over the long haul, concerning both accelerated RSA wear and frame battering. While the P30 line has certainly achieved a stellar reputation, I suspect that most users are using the 9mm variants. How are the .40 P30 variants holding up, particularly over time, and/or under sustained/heavy use? And, is there an increased RSA replacement interval for the .40 variants?

At the end of the day, I fully realize what I should probably do is just shut up and continue on with the VP40 alone....but I really enjoy the opportunity to benefit from the forum's collective experience and recommendations.

Best, Jon

[LockedBreech]

Thanks for starting the thread. I already bought a stainless USP Compact .40 because I caught one for $645, and I saw a P30 in .40 for FIVE HUNDRED TWENTY TWO dollars yesterday, briefly.

As someone with a decent stock of .40 guns and ammo already, it's hard not to justify adding a few HKs to the flock at that price.

[GJM]

The primary reason I would consider a P30 or USP in .40, or not, is wanting or not wanting a hammer. His test would be pretty low on my list.

If you wanted to buy on MAC's testing, what would you get?

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

I already bought a stainless USP Compact .40

Now LEM it up and join the cool kids' club. Bonus points if you grind off the rubber pinky extension and just leave a little padded buffer on the bottom of the mags.

[Arbninftry]

Always ignore biased and un realistic YouTube bullshitters. Any one that throws a firearm like a tomahawk against a metal target is just a stupid idiot and looses all credibility.

How about shoot the gun for 90000+ rounds and see what breaks. Now that would be worthy of watching.

[Peally]

If you wanted to buy on MAC's testing, what would you get?

Some Bulgarian or other Eastern European no-name country's totally awesome no-name company pistol.

[Guinnessman]

Here is an unscientific HK USP torture test:
https://youtu.be/IEU5KiPfxuY

MAC can take his T-Rex, Wreckx-n-effect, whatever named pistol and shove it! HK USP FTW! :p;)

[JonInWA]

Guys, the purpose of this thread is NOT to revisit the MAC VP9 tests, or any of his other tests-while we had some interesting discussion on the VP9 tests recently, the thread took an unfortunate turn for the worst with a spate of un-pistol-forum-like name-calling and insults, causing the thread to be justifiably locked. The purpose of this thread discussion is to discuss the longevity and durability of the P30 platform when chambered in .40 caliber. I'm interested in feedback from our own august body of members. Let's stay on topic, please.

Best, Jon

[Guinnessman]

Jon,

FWIW, I had a talk with LAV about .40 pistols during a class of his. He was a fan of anything HK if you wanted a .40, and this was before the VP40.

My sample of one, USP .40, and P2000sk in .40 were great guns, that handled the .40 cartridge well. The guns had milder recoil for a .40. I would assume a P30 in .40 is an improvement on both of those guns.

[bladehack]

Jon,

I only have 2000 rounds through my P30LS V1 .40 so far, but no issues whatsoever. Whereas the VP40 slide has larger outer slide dimensions than the VP9 (thus the increseased mass you mentioned), the P30 .40 slide has less mass removed internally than does the P30 9mm slide. Somone over on HKPro posted interior pics of a .40 and 9mm P30 slide side-by-side and you could definitely see where the 9mm slide had more material removed and thus would weigh less then the .40 slide (I do not know the weight delta betwen the two calibers). It's interesting that HK would take this approach between the two product lines. The VP approach causes a VP40 to not fit in a VP9 holster; whereas theres no diference between holsters for the P30, regardless of caliber.

[BCL]

Somone over on HKPro posted interior pics of a .40 and 9mm P30 slide side-by-side and you could definitely see where the 9mm slide had more material removed and thus would weigh less then the .40 slide (I do not know the weight delta betwen the two calibers.

According to HK's website, 0.72oz.

[JSGlock34]

The P30 slide also has to overcome the hammer spring, which will serve to absorb energy; the VP9 slide has to compensate with additional mass.

[BCL]

The P30 slide also has to overcome the hammer spring, which will serve to absorb energy; the VP9 slide has to compensate with additional mass.

This is a really good point.

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

This thread tempts me to eventually play with a VP40. Do the mags fit a P2000/USPc/P2000SK like the VP9 mags do?

[JonInWA]

The VP40 uses .40 P30 magazines-they're the same for both pistols.

Best, Jon

[LockedBreech]

The VP40 uses .40 P30 magazines-they're the same for both pistols.

Best, Jon

One of the main reasons I got my VP9 was this. It shows a lot of design intelligence and consideration of the customer to use a proven magazine design and not make it proprietary for a few extra bucks.


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[GJM]

Anyone familiar with a modern HK pistol, regardless of caliber, that was not "best in class," in terms of reliability?

[JonInWA]

Anyone familiar with a modern HK pistol, regardless of caliber, that was not "best in class," in terms of reliability?

My answer would be intrinsically "yes," but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're necessarily the best choice across the board; if, for example, part of the selection criteria is ease of operator detailed disassembly/reassembly, and time required for such and periodic inspections, it's likely gonna be a Glock kinda selection winner.

But for straight-out hard/heavy use and inherent component quality, I think that ToddG's P30 and HK45 extended tests and usage speak well for the modern/contemporary HK platforms.

Best, Jon

[BCL]

Anyone familiar with a modern HK pistol, regardless of caliber, that was not "best in class," in terms of reliability?

VP9 - I swear I saw something on Youtube...

[JSGlock34]

Anyone familiar with a modern HK pistol, regardless of caliber, that was not "best in class," in terms of reliability?

12075

Meh. I've seen just about everything choke. That wasn't my P30 in the picture (it was a rental gun), but my VP9 had two malfunctions in the first 1000 rounds. Anything can fail, but HKs are still better than most.

[JAD]

12075

Meh. I've seen just about everything choke. That wasn't my P30 in the picture (it was a rental gun), but my VP9 had two malfunctions in the first 1000 rounds. Anything can fail, but HKs are still better than most.

Is that steel cased ammo or did you have a ton of blowback?

[JSGlock34]

It was brass (I don't recall the brand, other than it was overpriced at this particular rental range).

[Leroy]

My experience with handgun reliability is that a significant factor in long term durability is slide speed. How a designer manages that variable between a hammer fired gun and striker gun is like comparing apples and oranges. Can't get to slow either as you need cases to eject, but that is also dependent upon other things. In general slower slide speed = better durability.

[JonInWA]

Well, I yielded to the siren song of temptation. As has been discussed, both on P-F and on some of the other sites, for whatever reason there seems to be a bit of an HK fire sale going on with some of the platforms, notably ones chambered in .40. The one I chose was the one I mentioned when I started this thread, a P30L in .40, with Meprolight tritium nightsights, priced a $659 (the retail on it is $1,028.97, and the normal volume dealer discount price is $877.56 without nightsights, or $999 with nightsights, albeit in LE mode, which provides both the night sights and 3 magazines vs. the 2 provided with mine)(pricing info off of Bud's Gunshop site, which I've found to be an excellent one for ascertaining accurate current discount/street pricing and model availability).

I suspect that HK may be doing a bit of warehouse accumulation cleaning; mine, for example is a 2014 production gun. I suspect that P30L V1s are probably not the most speedily moving sku, and aging nightsights probably played into the discounting decision, as well as 9mm platform sales (and forecasted sales) eroding/eclipsing .40 among both institutional and retail buyers, although this current quiet sale/discounting in unprecedented with HK for as long as I can remember (previous relative recent sales have involved a $200 rebate, and at one point HK was offering both .40 and .357 SIG barrels with some models). Or it may be an end-of-the-year accounting or tax positioning sort of motivation... Whatever the rationale, I'm exceptionally pleased to be an end-user beneficiary of someone's largess in HK-world.

The V1 provides me with a similar triggerpull weight with my VP40, and both models share the same magazines, which is a huge plus. Ergos are essentially identical, with slight differences in slide release levers, grip texturing, beavertail/rear tang curvature, and take-down process.

To date, I've cleaned and lubricated (using Weapon Shield as a general lubricant, and Lucas Red and Tacky #2 grease for areas of metal-on-metal bearing/reciprocation (barrel exterior, barrel cam/RSA lug interface points, slide muzzle ring interior, and slide/receiver rail areas).

Initial live-fire testing will probably commence later this week. It will be interesting concurrently running the P30L and the VP40. As I mentioned to another member, I do it all for science....

[hassiman]

Despite having a flawless performing VP40 to date, I will admit that the MAC test hiccups with 3 separate VP9s have raised some concurrent questions at least in the background of my mind regarding potential issue carry-over to the VP40. While I've been reassured by an exceptionally experienced and well-regarded member of the forum here as to the inherent empirically experienced and observed overall stellar qualities of the VPs (both 9mm and .40 versions), I still have some residual nagging concerns that refuse to be totally put to rest to date.

While my VP40 is going nowhere (in fact, I'm carrying it now), I have seen some of the exceptional bargain-pricing going on by HK with some of their .40 P30s. Specifically, I handled a P30L in V1/light LEM in the law enforcement package, with Meprolight tritium sights and presumably 3 magazines, for well under $700. That's pretty tempting. The V1 triggerpull was quite nice (with an advertised pull weight of 4.5 lbs) and seemed exceptionally comparable to the VP40's pull weight of around 5.4 lbs. Reset was nice on the P30L V1, but a bit longer than the VP reset distance.

I do have one question, though, regarding the P30's durability in .40 chambering. With the VP40, HK significantly beefed up the slide, both materially (adding some 2.37 oz) and dimensionally both width- and height-wise). as well as providing a heaver-weighted flatwire recoil spring (although HK is now using the VP40 RSA as the across-the-board one for all VPs, upgrading the previously lighter-sprung VP9 RSAs). However, the P30 slide weights and dimensions for the .40 variants are exactly the same as their 9mm variants....which leads me to think that the only engineering differences between 9mm and .40 variants are in the RSA weights, extractors, and slide muzzle hole size, and barrel dimensioning.

Over the years, we've certainty seen how this minimalist differentiation approach has worked with other platforms-that is, not necessarily well, particularly over the long haul, concerning both accelerated RSA wear and frame battering. While the P30 line has certainly achieved a stellar reputation, I suspect that most users are using the 9mm variants. How are the .40 P30 variants holding up, particularly over time, and/or under sustained/heavy use? And, is there an increased RSA replacement interval for the .40 variants?

At the end of the day, I fully realize what I should probably do is just shut up and continue on with the VP40 alone....but I really enjoy the opportunity to benefit from the forum's collective experience and recommendations.

Best, Jon

Given that HK was one of the first to field a 40Cal handgun I would say that it was well researched and tested for LONG term reliability. The USP on up are well known for their reliability under the worst of conditions. As far as 40 Cal is concerned it has for the time being fallen out of favor. I personally have never been a fan of 9mm. I like a bit more bullet diameter. I just purchased a new P2000sk in 40. I was thinking of 9mm but stuck with the 40. So far the gun has been superb, Just as well built as my Bought new HE date code USP compact 40 stainless which in all these years has NEVER jammed. While I like my Kimber compact 45 and my S&W 629-4 Trail Boss the HK still is made to the same exacting standards. Something I can not say about todays S&Ws or even Kimbers.

[Phaedrus]

The P30 might be a tad more robust but even as a reloader I doubt you could afford to wear out either a VP40 or P30 in .40 S&W. Both are good to go.

[JonInWA]

I've certainly been pleased with both of mine. Since my initiation of this thread, which I started abour 5 years ago, the only minor issues I've expereinced were that my VP40 needed a triggerbar adjustment (I needed to pull the trigger to effect disassembly) and my P30L had the the Small backstrap replaced, with the new one more fitted to my individual P30L, due to a small amount of backstrap movement on the receiver frame when installed.

HK also retro-fitted my VP40 with the newer version of the trigger return spring bearing. As I've previously mentioned, I can't say enough about the absolutely superb service, advice and assistance I've received continuously from HK US CUstomer Service; they're a small, basically 4-person shop, but their work and turn-around times are excellent.

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

We had a handful of P30s in 40S&W with our tactical unit. A number of them suffered from broken recoil spring guide rods. Rods fail at the angled cut and break clean off.

This has also happened occasionally with the P2000 but seemed more common with the P30. Smaller sample size in the hands of people who tend to shoot more.

Something to keep an eye on. Probably not a bad idea of keep an extra spring guide in the range bag for those who run the P30. Especially in 40 cal.

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[OlongJohnson]

H&K recoil spring assemblies are easy enough to detail apart and back together at my bench, but I'm not sure I could pull it off well in the field. I'd recommend carrying a whole assembly if you are going to keep a spare in the bag.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

We had a handful of P30s in 40S&W with our tactical unit. A number of them suffered from broken recoil spring guide rods. Rods fail at the angled cut and break clean off.

This has also happened occasionally with the P2000 but seemed more common with the P30. Smaller sample size in the hands of people who tend to shoot more.

Something to keep an eye on. Probably not a bad idea of keep an extra spring guide in the range bag for those who run the P30. Especially in 40 cal.

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That is rather concerning and surprising at the same time. I've never heard of this before but it has me thinking the USP really is what you need for a reliable .40 cal launcher. I need some JM Custom Kydex for mine to start carrying it some day.

[1slow]

USP 40 was originally designed as a .40 and later adapted to 9mm. Less problems than pistol designed as a 9mm and “adapted” to .40.

A huge amount of reading and talking to users leads me to believe that a USP Is very overbuilt. My favorites are the full size 45s USP, USPT, USP EXPERT. I like the USP 9s as well.

All of my P30 experience has been 9mm, replace hammer springs and recoil springs at < 14,000 rounds.

This may not be relevant.

[Phaedrus]

The HK USP is arguably the most durable and best built pistol in the world.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

We had a handful of P30s in 40S&W with our tactical unit. A number of them suffered from broken recoil spring guide rods. Rods fail at the angled cut and break clean off.

This has also happened occasionally with the P2000 but seemed more common with the P30. Smaller sample size in the hands of people who tend to shoot more.

Something to keep an eye on. Probably not a bad idea of keep an extra spring guide in the range bag for those who run the P30. Especially in 40 cal.

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Is there any evidence that the recoil springs were or weren't past their service life and weak enough to cause this failure?

[Tokarev]

Is there any evidence that the recoil springs were or weren't past their service life and weak enough to cause this failure?Not that I know of. We never had that many guns in service and, therefore, never had a goodly supply of service parts.

Still, the same is basically true for the P2000. We had some spare parts available and local armorers trained in how to change things like trigger springs and such. But few kept track of rounds. Heck. Is is hard enough getting some guys to clean their guns let alone keep track of usage.

Slides seemed to be a weak link on the P2K as round count climbed. I saw quite a few slides crack between the holes for the barrel and recoil spring.

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[Oldherkpilot]

We had a handful of P30s in 40S&W with our tactical unit. A number of them suffered from broken recoil spring guide rods. Rods fail at the angled cut and break clean off.

This has also happened occasionally with the P2000 but seemed more common with the P30. Smaller sample size in the hands of people who tend to shoot more.

Something to keep an eye on. Probably not a bad idea of keep an extra spring guide in the range bag for those who run the P30. Especially in 40 cal.

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While I seldom take my .40 P30 out of the safe, I took your advice and ordered a complete guide rod/spring unit from MGW. The guide rods for 9 & .40 are the same, so I can use the rod as spare for my primary P30. Thanks for the tip.

[JonInWA]

We had a handful of P30s in 40S&W with our tactical unit. A number of them suffered from broken recoil spring guide rods. Rods fail at the angled cut and break clean off.

This has also happened occasionally with the P2000 but seemed more common with the P30. Smaller sample size in the hands of people who tend to shoot more.

Something to keep an eye on. Probably not a bad idea of keep an extra spring guide in the range bag for those who run the P30. Especially in 40 cal.

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Color me a tad skeptical on this one-to clarify, I'm not doubting that what you're reporting actually happened, but my question would also be around the part "smaller sample size in the hands of people who tend to shoot more." Not that shooting more is intrinsically bad, but were they also tracking their round count to ensure that the RSAs were being replaced at the HK recommended replacement intervals?

How did the organization involved track usage, and how often did organizational maintenance/detailed inspections on these guns occur?

Having spare RSAs around and available is never a bad idea, but someone still has to make the actual decision to appropriately replace an RSA when necessary and in accordance with prescribed replacement intervals...

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

Color me a tad skeptical on this one-to clarify, I'm not doubting that what you're reporting actually happened, but my question would also be around the part "smaller sample size in the hands of people who tend to shoot more." Not that shooting more is intrinsically bad, but were they also tracking their round count to ensure that the RSAs were being replaced at the HK recommended replacement intervals?

How did the organization involved track usage, and how often did organizational maintenance/detailed inspections on these guns occur?

Having spare RSAs around and available is never a bad idea, but someone still has to make the actual decision to appropriately replace an RSA when necessary and in accordance with prescribed replacement intervals...

Best, Jon

As said above, few keep track of rounds fired. We've tried various things (paper log books) that fail. Log book doesn't get kept up with, doesn't get turned in when employee retires/quits or gets lost or left in a shirt pocket and washed.

Again, my experience with the P30 vs P2000 is not an apple to apple comparison. The P2000 was general issue while the P30 was not. P30s were limited to our tac guys and, even then, was not issued in large quantities. But few recoil spring/cam assemblies ever broke on the P2000s while several broke on the P30s.

Buy what you want. Shoot what you want. But if I ran a P30 in 40 as my primary pistol I would keep a spare recoil assembly in my range bag. Not scientific fact just anecdotal observation.

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[gomerpyle]

The V1 provides me with a similar triggerpull weight with my VP40....

Initial live-fire testing will probably commence later this week. It will be interesting concurrently running the P30L and the VP40. As I mentioned to another member, I do it all for science....
Keen to hear whatg you have to say of the LEM V1.

I once owned a p30L V1 in 9mm, along with the VP9. The P30L V1 was admirably accurate, easy to group at 25yds. I found the long, sooffffttt takeup and loooong reset not to my liking, especially when compared to the same LEM configuration on a USP, USPc, HK45, and HK45c, whose LEM reset was noticeably shorter. Sold the P30L V1.

But those observations were in my early days of shooting. Now, I would see it as an excellent carry gun for people management, and perhaps configure it with a V4 or v4.1 LEM.