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ToddG
11-28-2011, 09:19 AM
Please read the rules (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1837-Drill-of-the-Week) before participating in this thread.

Week 9: 3x5 Range Push
results may be posted until 11:59pm EST on Monday 5-December-2011.

by ToddG
Range: varies (begins at 5yd)
Target: 3x5 card
Start position: shooter's choice
Rounds fired: varies

You will need a shot timer for this drill.

Similar to Week 7's "Speed Push" the Range Push is designed to force you to work harder at hitting a low% target under time pressure. Instead of lowering the time, this week we'll increase the distance.

Start position is up to the shooter but should be consistent throughout the drill. The 3x5 card should be placed horizontally (3" tall and 5" wide).

There are two strings of fire:

String 1:
During the first string, your goal is to get 100% hits.

On the beep, fire two rounds at the 3x5 at 5yd; record the time and the number of hits
Repeat until you get three clean runs


String 2:
During the second string, your goal is to push yourself to manipulate the gun faster.

Set a PAR time equal to the middle speed run (not fastest, not slowest) you had during String 1.
Put the target out to 6yd
On the beep, fire two rounds at the 3x5 card trying to get both shots off before the PAR time is up
If you got both hits under the PAR add 1yd to the distance of the target and go again at the same PAR
If you failed to get both hits under the PAR, go back to the last distance (one less yard) and try to do three clean runs in a row at that distance
Keep decreasing the distance until you can get three clean runs in a row under PAR, then stop and record your distance


Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Start position (ready, open holster, concealed, retention holster)
PAR used
distance at which you were able to get three clean runs under PAR


Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

ToddG
11-28-2011, 03:39 PM
First run (luke warm after only a single cold F.A.S.T.)
start position: concealed in CCC Shaggy underneath polo
PAR: 1.8 (clean runs at 5 were 1.82, 1.70, 1.90)
final distance: 7yd (made it out to 9yd, missed at 10, missed during second string at 9, missed during third string at 8)

Second run (near end of 400+ round session)
start position: concealed in CCC Shaggy underneath polo
PAR: 1.7 (clean runs, honest, were 1.72, 1.72, and 1.72 in a row)
final distance: 7yd (made it out to 7yd, missed at 8, made all three at 7 again)

While the results between the two runs aren't significant, the overall shooting impact was. My cold F.A.S.T. had the two head shots in 2.10 with one miss; my two end of day F.A.S.T. head shots were 1.69 clean and 1.83 clean (actually missed a body on the last run which timed in a 4.09).

zml342
11-28-2011, 06:32 PM
start position: concealed, comp-tac infidel (AIWB), untucked polo
PAR: 2.91 (2.91, 2.78, 2.98)
final distance: 8 yds

I'm not sure if I did this right. I made it to 7yds, missed, went back to 6, got 3 clean runs, started using new par (2.60), continued to 7 yds and then 8 yds where I stopped due to time. Was I supposed to continue using the original par (2.91)?

ToddG
11-28-2011, 06:39 PM
I'm glad you asked because I'm sure the explanation isn't nearly as clear to everyone else as it is to me.

Get your PAR.
Shoot as far out as you can in that PAR.
When you get your first miss (let's say at 8yd), you begin backing up closer.

Shoot at the closer distance (let's say 7yd).
If you go three-for-three (at the original PAR), you're done and your score is 7yd.
If you don't go three-for-three, back up another yard closer and repeat.

Whatever distance you're at when you finally get your first three-for-three is your end/score.

So today, I got my PAR (1.8) and made it my first try at 6, 7, 8, and 9 yards. At 10yd I dropped a shot. So I backed up to 9yd and tried... but didn't get three successes in a row using the original (1.8) PAR. So I backed up to 8 yards and again, couldn't get three successes at 1.8s. Next I backed up to 7yd and went three-for-three within the 1.8 PAR so my score was 7yd.

Later when I shot it a second time, I got my PAR (1.7) and made it on my first try at 6 and 7 yards. I missed a shot at 8yd. So then I tried it three times (with the 1.7 par) at 7 yards and got all three. So I was done and my score, again, was 7yd.

It's easy once you do it. I promise. :cool:

zml342
11-28-2011, 06:43 PM
Ahh, that makes much more sense. Not nearly as complicated as knowing the difference between a 6" circle and 3x5 card!

MDS
11-28-2011, 07:50 PM
First, thanks for posting this DotW early, so I could run both this and last week's DotW's today. That's good customer service for ya! ;)

Start position: concealed from VMII, untucked dress shirt
PAR: 2.99 (clean runs at 5 were 2.99, 2.78, 3.11)
Final distance: 4yd (made it out to 7yd, missed 2 at 8, missed during first string at 7, went over PAR during second string at 6, missed during first string at 5)

The good news is that, as with zml here, I managed to shoot all reps of this drill at the appropriate target.

The bad news is that, as with the previous DotW, I think my inconsistent press-out is the big culprit here. I continue to work B&D draw-strokes and I do a lot better afterwards. (So tempted to say "I do alot better." Not sure I want to know the images that most of you all conjure up from that, though...)

agent-smith
11-29-2011, 06:03 PM
I actually had a chance to do one of these:

* Start position - Hands hanging relaxed in front, drawing from concealed Sidearmor IWB; my "cover garment" was just my TAD Gear Ranger hoodie I always wear
* PAR used - 2.4 seconds
* Final distance - 7yds (2.31, 2.39, 2.27 seconds for my 3 consecutive "clean" runs)

I was/am pretty happy with the results, as I've always been (and will probably always consider myself) a "rifle guy."

I've been working on having the shot "break" as soon as I come to full extension and things started to "click" for me my last 3 runs.

jthhapkido
11-29-2011, 06:40 PM
Well, THAT was a quick drill. [sigh]

Rig: Standard USPSA Production rig, Gen 4 G17, Warren Tactical sights, 10 rounds in mags.
Hands at sides, shot cold.

5 yards: 2.09, 1.93, 1.92 (hey, you SAID to be comfortable!) -- PAR set at 1.93.
6 yards: 1.67, no problem
7 yards: 1.52, yanked the second shot nicely 1/4 inch below the card. Well, drat.
Back to 6 yards: 1.63, 1.63, 1.62

Final Distance: 6 yards.

Got so annoyed I went back to 7 yards and ran another 40 rounds through it, with the same par time. I'd have a good set of runs, then yank it down again when I stopped paying attention to my trigger. [sigh] By the end, was having about 1.52-1.55 runs consistently with both hits.

We'll see if that still holds true tomorrow, though, if I can make it back to the range....

jetfire
11-29-2011, 08:04 PM
Start position: IDPA legal concealment, blade tech OWB holster, Glock 34.

Par used: 2.00 seconds - my 5 yard runs we're 1.96, 2.02, and 1.99.

Distance completed: 7 yards. I dropped a shot at 8, came back and wrecked it at 7.

Stuffbreaker
11-29-2011, 08:30 PM
Start position: T shirt concealment - CBST IWB- P30LS V3
PAR: 2.50 (three clean runs in a row at 2.50 / 2.58 / 2.44)
Final distance: 3yd (made it out to 10yds in 18 consecutive clean shots, then choked miserably).

Running this drill stone cold gave me a fairly conservative PAR, which carried me out to 10 yards in 18 shots with no misses. A 2.64 at 10 yards was my only string above PAR. It sent be back down a long and bumpy road to a sad little distance of 3 yards. 38 hits in 44 total rounds fired. Really enjoyed this one. More please!

C45P312
11-29-2011, 08:48 PM
Did this one cold before "clocking in" to work

Start position: G17 in Safariland 6004 in surrender position
PAR: 2.12 (clean runs at 5yd were 2.21, 1.98, 2.17)
Final distance: 6yd

I think I tried going faster instead of trying to stay under the 2.12 par. Got out only to 7yds before I got my miss on the first shot out of holster.

TheRoland
12-01-2011, 09:44 AM
My results on this were pretty miserable. I couldn't even repeat the PAR shots at five yards.

Start Position: IDPA Rig, Concealed.
PAR Time: 3.00
Final Distance: 4 Yards.

On the upside, this drill seemed to improve my FAST time dramatically.

jar
12-01-2011, 10:26 AM
Par was 3.13. I made it again at 5y, moved back and missed one at 6, missed one at 5 and cleaned up at 4, so final score 4 yards.

What I found myself doing was rushing the draw sweating the par time, leading to a bad grip. I shot a bunch of 3x5s with no par afterwards. I'm planning to make a 3x5 with no time limit walkback drill a regular part of my practice for a few weeks and work on my draw in dry fire.

Mr_White
12-01-2011, 01:10 PM
Start position was concealed, AIWB, closed-front shirt, hands hanging
PAR was 1.68 seconds
Final distance: 3 yards

What a pisser. It was going so well, and then, not...

The whole thing went like this:

3 consecutive clean runs at 5yd (1.71, 1.68, 1.64), PAR set at 1.68 seconds

The sixth bullet hole is hard to see in the picture. It's at the lower left of the 3x5, and clipped the 3x5 by the absolute slimmest of margins.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6437252059_a84bdeb66a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/6437252059/) 3x5_Range_Push_01 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/6437252059/) by OrigamiAK (http://www.flickr.com/people/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

Push target to 6 yards, 1.58 clean
Push target to 7 yards, 1.67 clean
Push target to 8 yards, 1.64 clean
Push target to 9 yards, 1.69, first shot missed, second shot over PAR
Retract target to 8 yards, 1.70 clean, but over PAR
Retract target to 7 yards, 1.75, both misses. Got a bad (low) grip on the draw, pulled both shots low off the 3x5
Retract target to 6 yards, 1.73 clean, but over PAR
Retract target to 5 yards, 1.48 (getting frustrated), one miss low
Retract target to 4 yards, 1.46 clean, 1.47 one miss low
Retract target to 3 yards, 1.48, 1.42, 1.50 all clean

GRRRRRRRR.....

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6437252275_c4554dd874.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/6437252275/) 3x5_Range_Push_02 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/6437252275/) by OrigamiAK (http://www.flickr.com/people/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

Noleshooter
12-01-2011, 07:56 PM
Thanks for posting these! I feel like such a lurker, but considering the experience around here I have little [nothing] to contribute, but I LOVE the site and forum as a resource.

I have just purchased an M&P Pro to replace my Armalite AR-24 for USPSA Production and went to the range for a little break in. Transitioning to the M&P striker trigger from the DA/SA has proven a bit difficult (read: the sights must be low and left :) ).

Start position: USPSA production rig (open holster at side)

First string: 2.21, 2.45, 2.52

Moved out to six yards and made in out to 8 before pulling low & left.

Back to 7 and 3 clean runs.

Matt O
12-01-2011, 09:11 PM
Start position: G17 concealed in IWB holster under untucked t-shirt
Par time determined at 5 yd: 2.8 (3, 2.8, 2.75)
Final distance: 6yd

6 yards, no problem with both shots; 7 yards I shank shot #1 low due to anticipation and voila am back at 6 yards. Ran 3 more pairs successfully at 6 yards and that was that.

Turns out to be a rather short drill when you miss your first shot at 7 yards due to stupidity :D

Pennzoil
12-02-2011, 12:22 AM
Start Position: P2000 LEM AIWB under closed front sweater
PAR Time: 2.95
Final Distance: 6 yards

I got pummeled today with high winds, dust storm, rain and then pea size sleet. I should of just called it an early day but on the up side I had the range all to myself......

chris
12-02-2011, 02:31 PM
Start position: concealed apendix carry IWB covered with button shirt & Jacket
PAR: 5.12(my clean runs from 5yrd were 4.88, 5.12, 6.33)
Final distance: 4yd -- (made it out to 6yd, missed at 7yd: missed during first string at 7, couldn't make it under par during second string at 6, at this point I was frustrated and was pushing my draw too fast and not getting a proper grip and couldn't get both rounds on the 3x5. I calmed down and finally got things under control at the 4yd line....:p

No doubt about it, this drill kickded my butt :mad: --however, it did, (quite effectively) point out several of my weaknesses. I REALLY need to work on my draw, and have decided to focus on it daily during dry fire. I'm going to try practicing follow up shots during range sessions as well. The plan is to try this drill agian in two weeks and see how I do.

Gideon_459
12-02-2011, 07:06 PM
Start position: concealed, aiwb under a pullover, hands hanging
Par: 2.9 (runs were 2.79, 2.96, 3.15)
Final distance: 7 yards, got out to 9 and missed, fell apart trying to go fast at 8 then settled down and out in 3 good runs at 7.

A challenge as always. Definitely need to get back to dry firing. Press outs were ugly (and slow).

BaiHu
12-03-2011, 05:28 PM
Hopefully I did this right.

Range Nazis were in full force today and my pistol range was flooded, so I couldn't go from holster.

In order to 'fake it', I went from the ready resting on the table and I paused when the buzzer went off before I pressed out.

HKP30L
50 rounds fired.

I started cold at 5yds and I sucked the first 20+ rounds fired-I just couldn't seem to get 3 clean sets in a row. I was mostly an inch too high or low on the card. 2.35 was my fastest clean and I had plenty of slow misses :o

Finally, I got 3 clean runs in a row of 2.75, 2.53, 2.67.

I moved the target to 6 yds and I set my PAR for 3 seconds b/c my timer doesn't have 10ths, yet (android shot timer pro IPSC). As soon as I go to 6 yds, I nail it: 2.65, 2.44, 2.47 clean and then I figured I'd just keep going b/c I had loaded 10 in the mag and I shot a 3.04 and 2.83. Apparently, I peaked.

I moved the target to 7 yds and failed to hit 3 clean runs and I realize I am out of ammo :eek:

If I have time tomorrow, I'll run it back again.

Kevin B.
12-04-2011, 02:29 PM
Start position was concealed, hands hanging at my sides
Gun was my 1911 w/X300 in a Blade-tech OWB
PAR was 1.94 seconds
Final distance: 7 yards

I used to run a drill similar to this one quite often and I was fairly confident going into this week's DotW.



3 consecutive clean runs at 5 yards; 1.98, 1.94, 1.87. PAR set at 1.94 seconds. I have to admit, this bothered me. I thought I would be faster.
Target at 6 yards, 1.89 clean
Target at 7 yards, 1.91 clean
Target at 8 yards, 2.02 clean, overtime
Target at 7 yards, 1.92, 1.94, 1.87 clean.


Overall, I did not do as well as I had expected but I was satisified with my performance.

CGA
12-04-2011, 02:34 PM
Gen 3 Glock 17
Ameriglo Defoor Sights
American Eagle 115gr FMJ
12/4/11

start position: open in RCS
PAR: 2.3 (clean runs at 5 were 2.38, 2.11, 2.28)
final distance: 6yd (shot over PAR on the 3rd run at 7yd)

JConn
12-04-2011, 06:21 PM
My day was similar to origamiak's ha. But I did learn from it.

Gen 3 Glock 19
Start position: strong side iwb under closed front cover garment.
Par time: 2.73
Final distance: 4 yards
Farthest distance successful: 7 yards

Just no consistency. I'm loving that each week I learn something new about what I need to improve in my shooting. It's really easy to get complacent and just shoot what you do well at.

JFK
12-04-2011, 10:31 PM
Too much mud at the range today due to snow. I was able to get in about 100 rounds total for this drill was the following:

Start position: Les Baer 1911 in a Shaggy AIWB. Concealed by a pull over jacket
Start Par: 3.25 @3 yards started too high so reduced.
End Par: 2.90 @ 3 yards
Ended at 2.66, 2.69, 2.88 @ 6 yards. I could not get any clean runs under 3 seconds at 7.

I blame all the mud in my mags... Not my apparent lack of ninjaness.

DocGKR
12-05-2011, 02:07 AM
Ran Defoor #1 first: 25.65 sec/59 pts; 2.15 sec/3.29 sec/3.43 sec--failed at the 7yd line again...

DOW #9
Start position: G19 w/RMR concealed in Fricke Seraphim AIWB under zipped up soft shell jacket
PAR @ 5 yds: 2.30 sec (5 yds--2.79, 2.10, 2.30)
Final Distance: 6 yds (6 yds--2.24/2.00/2.30; 7 yds--2.17/2.29/2.33; 8 yds--2.58 with a miss; 7 yds--2.27 with a miss; 6 yds--2.04/2.15/2.21)

------------------------------

Then ran Defoor #2: Passed--26 pts with 3.03/2.86/3.87 sec

Repeated the DOW #8 for 50 rds using G19 with a best par of 4.35 sec (compared to my best par last week with the M&P45 of 4.40 sec)

Defoor #3: Passed--46 sec; 20 pts on body shots, 4 head hits with 3 in CC.

Only got to run one FAST--last drill of the session, which was a 5.47 sec clean.

krazykiddjoe
12-05-2011, 09:32 AM
Start Position: Glock 17, Blade-Tech IWB set to straight cant used as AIWB (til my Shaggy gets here). Under a UA 1/4 Zip Fleece.
Par Used: 2.2
Final Distance: 5 Yards. :mad:

Three runs at 5 yard 2.08/2.28/2.18, no idea why all the 8's.

My timer only allows pars to the first decimal, so I ran a 2.2 PAR. Five yard clean, fucked the draw and barely missed the first shot on the first one at 6 came back to 5 and made all three in par.

So I ran a lot of 2 shot drills from the 5 in 2.1 and 2.0 par time, only got three clean runs under two but I was happy with ones near and barely over two.
It got dark and I ran two Fast drills in pretty much lowlight. I ended with a 6.46 -2 body, and a 7.01 clean.
Ready for the next DotW.


KKJ

Corey
12-05-2011, 12:07 PM
Start Position: Concealed, hands at sides.
Par: 3.7 Seconds (took 4 runs to get three clean. 3.68, 3.54, 3.74. timer only lets me set pars to tenth of a second so I rounded)
Final distance: 7 yards

Made it to 9 yards and missed both shots on my first run. Backed up to 8 yards and missed one shot on my second run. Got a 3.44, 3.56, and 3.21 clean at 7 yards. Sometimes being slow is an advantage :p

JV_
12-05-2011, 02:28 PM
I shot this drill a few times, this is my cold run (first drill of the range session).

Cold:
Concealed w/ untucked polo
Glock 19 w/ CCC Shaggy
PAR was 1.91 seconds
Final distance: 6 yard

In all 3 runs of this drill, I never made it past 7Y.

TCinVA
12-05-2011, 06:25 PM
Started cold.
P30 carried under an untucked polo in my CCC "Shaggy"
2.5 second PAR time
Farthest clean distance: 8 yards

Prdator
12-05-2011, 07:37 PM
Well do to a back injury this will be the fist DotW that I will not get done.... Sucks...

Ifightcrime
12-05-2011, 11:30 PM
Start Position: Duty rig consisting of Retention Holster Safariland SLS
Glock 35 w/ TLR Light and 10-8 sights

Par Time: 3.70 sec (seems like days:( )

3 Clean hits @: 5yrds
Not impressed but I am sure I will improve.:cool:


IFC

ToddG
12-05-2011, 11:59 PM
Week 9 is now CLOSED.
Week 10 has been posted (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2381-DotW-10-99-Drill).