PTSD and gun ownership

[UNK]

I need to know if a person is diagnosed with PTSD what is the result of gun ownership and CCDW or CCW.
Please if you don't know don't speculate.
Sources appreciated.

[TGS]

This isn't speculation but I don't have sources for you.

PTSD is not an automatic disqualifier to owning a gun, CCW permit, or even being employed in a job carrying one, as PTSD is not what most people think it is: a broken human being on a hair trigger to uncontrollably killing random innocents. (I'm not saying that's what you're thinking, FWIW).

I have at least 1 good friend on the job with me, one of my academy buddies, who openly admitted he has PTSD.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Too many variables to say. At least locally I do not know of definitive "if Y, then X" on the subject.

One of the problems with how PTSD is viewed is that it is not what a lot of people think it is.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

You need to check on the laws of your state as to reporting requirements on mental health issues. There are also Federal issues involved. I'm not up on all the various technical nuances state by state. Simply the diagnosis isn't enough info to say that it is a black and white ban/ no ban issue.

[olstyn]

I know at least one person with PTSD and a carry permit. The source of that person's PTSD is not military/combat-related in nature, but I'm not sure that matters. I expect the important things, as Glenn said, are the specifics of the person in question's mental state as they relate to the local laws.

[Gray222]

The only time any mental health issues cause a person to be restricted from carrying, handling or buying a firearm is when they have been committed for mental evaluation *and* admitted for something.

A person can be taken by force to see a mental health pro and then released due to the person's mental status being normal.

PTSD is not one of the qualifier's which a mental health pro will need in order to render someone prohibited under most state laws.

You should check within your state as they do vary widely sometimes.

When I went through CIT training they told us that PTSD does not fall into the guidelines for mental commitment for evaluation. Some symptoms of it may, however...

If a person is suicidal or homicidal then they do fall into that area where they can be taken in. If all they have is depression and are on medications for it, it is strongly advised that they do not have firearms around them but there is no law against it, locally, again you should check where you are.

If your friend has been diagnosed with PTSD for the purpose of getting some sort of disability check from the gov, it will not affect that person in any way to buy and or keep firearms.

Just be advised that PTSD is a very gray area when it comes to court. I had a co-worker who served overseas for a few combat tours and when he got back he got into a shoot and once it was determined he was diagnosed with PTSD the DAs office really thought about having the department pull his gun and take him off the street as it may be a court issue....

[PearTree]

Here is a good link that gives a general overview for mental illness and gun ownership/CCW permits.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-and-criminal-justice/possession-of-a-firearm-by-the-mentally-ill.aspx

I don't know what state you live in, but they do vary in how this topic is handled.

[UNK]

Thanks guys. My first reaction was one of horror at getting a check but loosing your guns or ability to have guns. Seems my concerns were unfounded. I am going to follow up with the States Office of Veterans Representatives. This is a rumor that needs to be squashed especially if guys are not seeking help when they need it.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Thanks for the link but it is wise to research each state specifically.

The link for NY says:



Possession of Firearms by People With Mental Illness
1/13/2013

GunPossession of a firearm by the mentally ill is regulated by both state and federal laws.
Federal Law

Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d), it is unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution.”

The box allows you to conduct a full text search or use the dropdown menu option to select a state.
State Laws
Arizona Ariz. Rev. Stat. §§13-3101-02 Arizona prohibits possession of a firearm by any person who:

Has been found to constitute a danger to himself or herself or others pursuant to court order under section 36-540, and whose right to possess a firearm has not been restored pursuant to section 13-925.

Arkansas Ark. Code §5-73-103 No person shall possess or own any firearm if he or she has been:

Adjudicated mentally ill; or
Committed involuntarily to any mental institution.

California Cal. Welfare and Inst. Code §§ 8100 - 8108 A person is barred from possessing, purchasing, receiving, attempting to purchase or receive, or having control or custody of any firearms if the person:

Has been admitted to a facility and is receiving in-patient treatment for a mental illness and the attending mental health professional opines that the patient is a danger to self or others. This prohibition applies even if the person has consented to the treatment, although the prohibition ends as soon as the patient is discharged from the facility;
Has been adjudicated to be a danger to others as a result of a mental disorder or mental illness or has been adjudicated to be a mentally disordered sex offender. This prohibition does not apply, however, if the court of adjudication issues, upon the individual’s release from treatment or at a later date, a certificate stating that the person may possess a firearm without endangering others;
Has been found not guilty by reason of insanity of enumerated violent felonies. A person who is found not guilty by reason of insanity of other crimes is barred from possessing firearms unless a court finds that the person has recovered his or her sanity;
Has been found mentally incompetent to stand trial, unless there is a subsequent finding that the person has become competent;
Is currently under a court-ordered conservatorship because he or she is gravely disabled as a result of a mental disorder or impaired by chronic alcoholism


A person shall not have in his or her possession or under his or her custody or control, or purchase or receive, or attempt to purchase or receive, any firearms whatsoever or any other deadly weapon for a period of six months whenever he or she communicates to a licensed psychotherapist a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims. Licensed psychotherapists are required to immediately report to a local law enforcement agency the identity of a person who has communicated a serious threat of violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims (see § 8105(c)).
Connecticut Conn. Gen. Stat. § 53a-217c a person may not obtain a handgun eligibility certificate if he or she:

Has been discharged from custody within the preceding twenty years after having been found not guilty of a crime due to mental disease or defect pursuant to section 53a-13;
Has been confined in a mental hospital for persons with psychiatric disabilities within the preceding 12 months by order of a probate court.

Delaware Del. Code tit. 11, §1448 Delaware prohibits the purchase, ownership, possession or control of a firearm or ammunition by any person:

Ever committed for a mental disorder to any hospital, mental institution or sanitarium, unless the person possesses a certificate from a medical doctor or psychiatrist licensed in Delaware stating that the person is no longer suffering from a mental disorder which interferes or handicaps the person from handling deadly weapons.

District of Columbia D.C. Code § 7-2502.03 To obtain a registration certificate, an applicant must pass a background check conducted by the Chief of Police (this is in addition to the NICS check required by Brady when purchasing from a federally licensed dealer). Section 7-2502.03 requires that the Chief confirm that the applicant:

Within the 5 years immediately preceding the application, has not been acquitted of any criminal charge by reason of insanity or has not been adjudicated a chronic alcoholic by any court;
Within the 5 years immediately preceding the application, has not been voluntarily or involuntarily committed to any mental hospital or institution.

Florida Fla. Stat. §790.065 and §790.06 Follows federal law regarding gun sales.
Florida will not issue a license to carry a concealed weapon if the applicant:

Has been committed to a mental institution under Chapter 394, or similar laws of any other state, unless the applicant produces a certificate from a licensed psychiatrist stating that he or she has not suffered from disability for at least five years prior to the date of submission of the application.

Georgia Ga. Code §16-11-129 Licenses will not be issued to any person:

Who has been hospitalized as an inpatient in any mental hospital or alcohol or drug treatment center within five years of the date of his or her application.

Hawaii Haw. Rev. Stat. §134-7 no person shall own, possess or control any firearm or ammunition if the person:

Has been acquitted of a crime on the grounds of mental disease, disorder, or defect; or is or has been diagnosed as having a significant behavioral, emotional, or mental disorder, or for treatment for organic brain syndromes;
Is a minor who: 1) Is or has been under treatment for addiction to any dangerous drug, intoxicating compound, or intoxicating liquor; or 2) Has been determined not to have been responsible for a criminal act or has been committed to any institution on account of a mental disease, disorder, or defect; or
Is or has been diagnosed as having a significant behavioral, emotional, or mental disorders as defined by the most current diagnostic manual of the American Psychiatric Association or for treatment for organic brain syndromes

unless the person has been medically documented to be no longer adversely affected by the addiction, abuse, dependence, mental disease, disorder, or defect.
Idaho Idaho Code § 18-3302(1) A license to carry a concealed weapon shall be issued to an applicant unless he or she is currently suffering, or has been adjudicated as, based on substantial evidence:

Lacking mental capacity, per Idaho Code Ann. § 18-210;

Mentally ill, per section 66-317;

Gravely disabled, per section 66-317;

An incapacitated person, per section 15-5-101(a).

Illinois Ill. Rev. Stat. ch. 720, §5/24-3.1 A person commits the offense of unlawful possession of firearms or firearm ammunition when:

He has been a patient in a mental hospital within the past 5 years and has any firearms or firearm ammunition in his possession; or
He is mentally retarded and has any firearms or firearm ammunition in his possession.

Indiana Ind. Code §35-47-2-7 a person may not transfer a handgun to an individual who the person has reasonable cause to believe:

Is mentally incompetent.

Iowa Iowa Code §724.15 Any person who acquires ownership of any pistol or revolver shall first obtain an annual permit. An annual permit shall be issued to any person unless:

Is prohibited by federal law from shipping, transporting, possessing, or receiving a firearm.

Kansas Kans. Stat. §21-4204 prohibits any person from possessing a firearm if he or she:

Is or has been a mentally ill person subject to involuntary commitment for care and treatment as defined in section 59-2946, or a person with an alcohol or substance abuse problem subject to involuntary commitment for care and treatment as defined in section 59-29B46, unless he or she has received a "certificate of restoration."

Louisiana La. Rev. Stat. §40:1379.3 applicants must not:

Suffer from “mental or physical infirmity due to disease, illness, or retardation” which prevents the safe handling of a handgun;
have been adjudicated to be mentally deficient or been committed to a mental institution.

Maine Me. Rev. Stat. tit. 15, §393 A person may not own, possess or have under that person's control a firearm if he or she has been convicted of committing, or found not criminally responsible by reason of insanity of committing certain enumerated crimes.
Maryland Md. Pub. Safety Code § 5-133 A person may not possess a regulated firearm if the person:

suffers from a mental disorder as defined in § 10-101(f)(2) of the Health - General Article and has a history of violent behavior against the person or another, unless the person has a physician's certificate that the person is capable of possessing a regulated firearm without undue danger to the person or to another;
has been confined for more than 30 consecutive days to a facility as defined in § 10-101 of the Health - General Article, unless the person has a physician's certificate that the person is capable of possessing a regulated firearm without undue danger to the person or to another.

Massachusetts Mass. Gen. Laws Ch. 140, §131 A Class A or B license to carry a firearm may be issued, unless the applicant:

Has been confined to any hospital or institution for mental illness, unless the applicant submits a physician’s affidavit attesting that he or she is familiar with the applicant and that the applicant is not disabled by such an illness in a manner that would prevent him or her from possessing a firearm

Michigan Mich. Comp. Laws §28.422 A person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.

A person may qualify for a license if he or she:

Has not been adjudged insane or legally incapacitated and is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness

Minnesota Minn. Stat. § 624.713 Prohibits firearm possession by a person who:

Is, or has ever been, confined to a treatment facility as a person who is mentally ill, mentally retarded or mentally ill and dangerous to the public, or who has ever been found incompetent to stand trial or not guilty by reason of mental illness, unless there is satisfactory proof that the person no longer suffers from this disability.

Mississippi Miss. Stat. Rev. § 45-9-101 A license to carry concealed handguns must be issued by the Department of Public Safety (DPS), pursuant to section 45-9-101(2), if the applicant:

Has not been adjudicated mentally incompetent, or has waited five years from the date of his or her restoration of mental capacity by court order;
Has not been voluntarily or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or mental health treatment facility unless he or she possesses a certificate from a psychiatrist licensed in Mississippi stating that he or she has not suffered from disability for a period of five years.

Missouri Mo. Rev. Stat. §571.070 A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and is currently adjudged as mentally incompetent.
Montana Mont. Code §45-8-321 A permit to carry a concealed weapon may be denied to a person who:

Has been adjudicated in any state or federal court to be mentally ill, defective, or disabled, and remains subject to a disposition order.

Nebraska Neb. Rev. Stat. §69-2433 an applicant for a permit to carry a concealed handgun must:

Not have been found in the previous ten years to be a mentally ill and dangerous person and not be currently adjudged mentally incompetent.

Nevada Nev. Rev. Stat. §202.360 Prohibits any person from owning or possessing a firearm if he or she:

Has been adjudicated mentally ill or has been committed to any mental health facility

New Jersey N.J. Rev. Stat. §2c:58-3 No handgun purchase permit or firearms purchaser identification card shall be issued:

to any person who is confined for a mental disorder to a hospital, mental institution or sanitarium, or to any person who is presently an habitual drunkard;
to any person who has ever been confined for a mental disorder, or to any alcoholic unless any of the foregoing persons produces a certificate of a medical doctor or psychiatrist licensed in New Jersey, or other satisfactory proof, that he is no longer suffering from that particular disability in such a manner that would interfere with or handicap him in the handling of firearms.

New Mexico N.M. Stat. §29-19-4 The New Mexico Department of Public Safety shall issue a license to an applicant who:

Has not been adjudicated mentally incompetent or committed to a mental institution.

New York N.Y. Pen. Law §400.00; SB 2230 (2013) No person shall be issued a license to carry, possess or dispose of a firearm unless he or she:

Who has stated whether he or she has ever suffered any mental illness;
Who has not been involuntarily committed to a facility under the jurisdiction of an office of the department of mental hygiene pursuant to article nine or fifteen of the mental hygiene law, article seven hundred thirty or section 330.20 of the criminal procedure law, section four hundred two or five hundred eight of the correction law, section 322.2 or 353.4 of the family court act, or has not been civilly confined in a secure treatment facility pursuant to article ten of the mental hygiene law


However, there is the SAFE Act (http://www.nyspsych.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73:the-safe-act--guidelines-for-complying&catid=41:safe-act&Itemid=140):

Summary:
The SAFE Act amends the Mental Hygiene Law (MHL) by adding a new §9.46, which requires that mental health professionals who are currently providing treatment services to an individual make a report, if they conclude, using reasonable professional judgment, that the individual is likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious harm to self or others. The new reporting requirement went into effect on March 16, 2013 and applies to all conduct that would result in serious harm to self or others, regardless of whether a legal firearm is implicated. Once the report is made, a determination will be made if the subject of the report (i.e., the patient) has a legal gun, has applied for a gun permit or is prohibited from owning a gun under applicable state or federal law. However, the SAFE Act reporting requirement is intended to address only legal gun ownership and does NOT address notification to law enforcement or to a potential victim to warn of a risk of injury to the patient or others.

There's more to it.

Washington State passed Initiative 1491 which isn't on the list. Thus, a state by state intensive look is important. This is worth what you paid for it but someone (appropriate legal/mental health) has to say a disorder is such a problem that action is taken. Just disorder itself isn't enough.

A side note, it is not uncommon for folks to ignore PTSD symptoms as they feel having such isn't manly. Or they feel seeking help will lead to job repercussions. Self medication with alcohol or addictive substances was not unknown. Did some work on this and this was a common theme. In some tactical classes I took, the instructor (ex-military) made the point that you need to seek quality help if need be and forget the manly crap.

Another point is that after a critical incident PTSD is not guaranteed, as some seem to think but the prevalence is substantial. An anecdote - talking to a police sergeant. He said to me that folks who get PTSD are pussies. Then, on a serious note, he said that he once almost shot a kid. They entered a room and told a teenager not to move. He tucked behind his bed and came up (a fusillade of shots then?) with his phone. No shots fired. Sarge at nightmares of almost shooting him for a long time.

Second point - it's argued that the popular diagnosis of PTSD is made too much and some mental health professionals are missing standard depression indicators. There is a trend to go with what's hip in the mental health professions. It's kind of like AIWB (this is a word play on 'hip' in the previous sentence). But the point is real.

[UNK]

I only liked this post once because Tom won't let me like it twice.


Thanks for the link but it is wise to research each state specifically.

The link for NY says:



However, there is the SAFE Act (http://www.nyspsych.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73:the-safe-act--guidelines-for-complying&catid=41:safe-act&Itemid=140):

Summary:

There's more to it.

Washington State passed Initiative 1491 which isn't on the list. Thus, a state by state intensive look is important. This is worth what you paid for it but someone (appropriate legal/mental health) has to say a disorder is such a problem that action is taken. Just disorder itself isn't enough.

[DMF13]

The only time any mental health issues cause a person to be restricted from carrying, handling or buying a firearm is when they have been committed for mental evaluation *and* admitted for something.That is not correct at all.

For a person to prohibited under federal law, 18USC922(g)(4), the person must have been adjudicated a mental defective, or involuntarily committed to a mental institution.

It is explained in greater detail here: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/report/atf-i-33104-%E2%80%94-federal-firearms-prohibitions-under-18-usc-%C2%A7-922g4-%E2%80%93/download

Adjudication as a mental defective, even if not "admitted for something," can be prohibiting.

Just having a medical diagnosis of PTSD alone does not qualify as being "adjudicated a mental defective."

[Arbninftry]

I need to know if a person is diagnosed with PTSD what is the result of gun ownership and CCDW or CCW.
Please if you don't know don't speculate.
Sources appreciated.

Edit: IF THIS A VA ISSUE!!!! Start with them. If nuthouse issue see your state laws.

Original: Nothing! Start here and Read.

http://www.benefits.va.gov/WARMS/docs/admin21/m21_1/mr/part4/subptii/ch01/M21-1IV_ii_1_SecD.docx

You need to do homework. The VA has different degrees. 0% to 100%

You need to know the VA Shedule of ratings. It will be your friend or nemesis. A 100% does not mean shit. Now at any rating if the Dr thinks you are a threat to anyone or yourself they have to call everyone on you.

My brother is 100% PTSD, LIKE nightmares, insomnia type 100%, and that does not stop him from buying a new gun. I got a PTSD Rating too. I used to run a gun shop, FFL, have a CCW, held a TS Clearance, in the hiring process for FED LE job.
Dont stress out, just go get a stress hamster/parrot/rat/girlfriend you will be ok. And stop drinking coffee you are making me nervous ;)

[Arbninftry]

This is how the VA classifies PTSD it is section 9411 of mental disorder
To note, none of these will get your guns taken. A provider has to have evidence of harm or threat to yourself or others, and then you can appeal, I recommend getting a lawyer at this point.
http://www.benefits.va.gov/warms/docs/regs/38CFR/BOOKC/PART4/S4_130.doc

​General Rating Formula for Mental Disorders:

​Total occupational and social impairment, due to such symptoms as:
​gross impairment in thought processes or communication;
​persistent delusions or hallucinations; grossly inappropriate
​behavior; persistent danger of hurting self or others; intermittent
​inability to perform activities of daily living (including maintenance
​of minimal personal hygiene); disorientation to time or place; memory
​loss for names of close relatives, own occupation, or own name ​100%

​Occupational and social impairment, with deficiencies in most areas,
​such as work, school, family relations, judgment, thinking, or mood,
​due to such symptoms as: suicidal ideation; obsessional rituals
​which interfere with routine activities; speech intermittently illogical,
​obscure, or irrelevant; near-continuous panic or depression affecting
​the ability to function independently, appropriately and effectively;
​impaired impulse control (such as unprovoked irritability with periods
​of violence); spatial disorientation; neglect of personal appearance and
​hygiene; difficulty in adapting to stressful circumstances (including
​work or a worklike setting); inability to establish and maintain
​effective relationships ​70%

​Occupational and social impairment with reduced reliability and
​productivity due to such symptoms as: flattened affect; circumstantial,
​circumlocutory, or stereotyped speech; panic attacks more than once
​a week; difficulty in understanding complex commands; impairment
​of short- and long-term memory (e.g., retention of only highly learned
​material, forgetting to complete tasks); impaired judgment; impaired
​abstract thinking; disturbances of motivation and mood; difficulty in
​establishing and maintaining effective work and social relationships ​50%

​Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work
​efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational
​tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine
​behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms
​as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or
​less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as
​forgetting names, directions, recent events) ​30%

​Occupational and social impairment due to mild or transient symptoms
​which decrease work efficiency and ability to perform occupational
​tasks only during periods of significant stress, or; symptoms controlled
​by continuous medication ​10%

​A mental condition has been formally diagnosed, but symptoms are not
​severe enough either to interfere with occupational and social
​functioning or to require continuous medication​ 0%
​

[Ed L]

Wasn't there talk by someone or some agency of putting everyone on the VA's list of people with PTSD on some type of no-buy gun list?

Needless to say, I consider this grossly unfair on many levels--and a betrayal of people who who incurred this issue risking their lives for our country.

[Arbninftry]

Wasn't there talk by someone or some agency of putting everyone on the VA's list of people with PTSD on some type of no-buy gun list?

Needless to say, I consider this grossly unfair on many levels--and a betrayal of people who who incurred this issue risking their lives for our country.
I think that got stopped when lawyers and congress got involved. The VA got in the spotlight with letting vets die in hallways. So attention got put on them. So ........
Unless a judge orders it good luck

And with the varying degrees that is like lumping every American into the same basket. You can get PTSD from driving to work, divorce, death, or the clapp.

[DMF13]

Wasn't there talk by someone or some agency of putting everyone on the VA's list of people with PTSD on some type of no-buy gun list?

Needless to say, I consider this grossly unfair on many levels--and a betrayal of people who who incurred this issue risking their lives for our country.Those stories were simply untrue.

What happened was the VA hadn't been properly notifying the FBI (who runs NICS) of people who had actually been adjudicated mental defectives. All that happened was someone corrected the bureaucratic nonsense that kept the system from working as it should have been, and started getting people who actually had been adjudicated as mental defectives properly entered into NICS.

Much ado about nothing, but tin-hatted conspiracy theorists, and people with an agenda, chose to twist it into something untrue.

[Gray222]

That is not correct at all.

For a person to prohibited under federal law, 18USC922(g)(4), the person must have been adjudicated a mental defective, or involuntarily committed to a mental institution.

It is explained in greater detail here: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/report/atf-i-33104-%E2%80%94-federal-firearms-prohibitions-under-18-usc-%C2%A7-922g4-%E2%80%93/download

Adjudication as a mental defective, even if not "admitted for something," can be prohibiting.

Just having a medical diagnosis of PTSD alone does not qualify as being "adjudicated a mental defective."

...that's exactly what I said, it's good to read the whole post and understand the context instead of taking a snippet and saying it's wrong for whatever reason.

[DMF13]

...that's exactly what I said, it's good to read the whole post and understand the context instead of taking a snippet and saying it's wrong for whatever reason.No, nothing you said after the quoted portion corrected your false statement at the beginning which used "and" instead of "or." Please note your use of "only" and "*and*," which you were so sure to highlight. Then go read 18USC922(g)(4), and notice my use of italics and boldface for the word, "or."

Your statement was 100% wrong, and again, your follow on statements did nothing to correct that. Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable to be corrected, but next time maybe you should get the facts straight before you comment.

[Gray222]

No, nothing you said after the quoted portion corrected your false statement at the beginning which used "and" instead of "or." Please note your use of "only" and "*and*," which you were so sure to highlight. Then go read 18USC922(g)(4), and notice my use of italics and boldface for the word, "or."

Your statement was 100% wrong, and again, your follow on statements did nothing to correct that. Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable to be corrected, but next time maybe you should get the facts straight before you comment.

K bro, not like I do this for a living or anything. Not like I haven't testified in court on this very topic a bunch of times.

Keep on keeping on.

[DMF13]

K bro, not like I do this for a living or anything. Not like I haven't testified in court on this very topic a bunch of times.

Keep on keeping on.
Well, without putting too fine an edge on it, I'll just say I seriously doubt your claimed experience, because of my own experience as a fed, dealing with this federal law, in federal court.

However, no one needs to take either your word, or mine, about experience with the topic. They can read what you wrote, which I quoted, then they can read the relevant statute, Title 18, Section 922(g)(4) of the US Code ( LINK: 18USC922 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922) ), and the link I provided earlier, and will provide again, from ATF, who I guarantee have way more experience with it than I do, and I have a ton. ( LINK: ATF explanation of 18USC922(g)(4) (https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/report/atf-i-33104-%E2%80%94-federal-firearms-prohibitions-under-18-usc-%C2%A7-922g4-%E2%80%93/download) ). Anyone who bothers to read what you wrote, and then those two citations, will see that you were and are 100% wrong.

[Gray222]

Well, without putting too fine an edge on it, I'll just say I seriously doubt your claimed experience, because of my own experience as a fed, dealing with this federal law, in federal court.

However, no one needs to take either your word, or mine, about experience with the topic. They can read what you wrote, which I quoted, then they can read the relevant statute, Title 18, Section 922(g)(4) of the US Code ( LINK: 18USC922 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922) ), and the link I provided earlier, and will provide again, from ATF, who I guarantee have way more experience with it than I do, and I have a ton. ( LINK: ATF explanation of 18USC922(g)(4) (https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/report/atf-i-33104-%E2%80%94-federal-firearms-prohibitions-under-18-usc-%C2%A7-922g4-%E2%80%93/download) ). Anyone who bothers to read what you wrote, and then those two citations, will see that you were and are 100% wrong.

Good job confusing people for no reason.

Do yourselves a solid and contact your local PD to find out what exactly puts a person on the prohibited side of things in your specific state.

Speak to a CIT officer and make sure you get specific info. The law changes widely from FL to CA, for example.

Nothing I originally stated is wrong and I have personally testified to some of those facts in mental adjudication hearings.

I have no idea what has gotten up your ass, but this will be the last time I respond to you. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on topics before posting.

[joshs]

I need to know if a person is diagnosed with PTSD what is the result of gun ownership and CCDW or CCW.
Please if you don't know don't speculate.
Sources appreciated.

As has been pointed out, the federal mental health prohibition applies to a person who has been committed to a mental institution or adjudicated as a mental defective. Congress (very unhelpfully) didn't feel the need to include definitions for these terms in the statute, so ATF has provided definitions via regulations in 27 C.F.R. 478.11. Those definitions are:




Adjudicated as a mental defective.

(a) A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease:

(1) Is a danger to himself or to others; or

(2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.

(b) The term shall include -

(1) A finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and

(2) Those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility pursuant to articles 50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 850a, 876b.

And:




Committed to a mental institution. A formal commitment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term includes commitment for mental defectiveness or mental illness. It also includes commitments for other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or a voluntary admission to a mental institution.

As you can see, a diagnosis for any mental illness will not automatically trigger the federal prohibition (state laws vary and I would need to know which state you are concerned with, especially for CCW prohibitions).

The primary issue with the VA is that when the VA assigns a person a fiduciary to handle their VA benefits, the VA considers this an "adjudication as a mental defective."

[joshs]

Good job confusing people for no reason.

Do yourselves a solid and contact your local PD to find out what exactly puts a person on the prohibited side of things in your specific state.

Speak to a CIT officer and make sure you get specific info. The law changes widely from FL to CA, for example.

Nothing I originally stated is wrong and I have personally testified to some of those facts in mental adjudication hearings.

I have no idea what has gotten up your ass, but this will be the last time I respond to you. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on topics before posting.

I think DMF13s point is that the law actually does not change from state-to-state with regards to the federal prohibition. For example, state law can go beyond federal law with regards to a firearm prohibition (subject to Constitutional minimums), but it doesn't matter if a state does not go as far as federal law because federal law still applies through the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Your point that the law changes widely from FL to CA is simply wrong with respect to the application of 18 U.S.C.A. S 922(g)(4). There may be small variations between U.S. circuit court interpretations (with the primary circuit split on this issue coming from the Eighth Circuit), but the law otherwise has uniform application.

[Gray222]

I think DMF13s point is that the law actually does not change from state-to-state with regards to the federal prohibition. For example, state law can go beyond federal law with regards to a firearm prohibition (subject to Constitutional minimums), but it doesn't matter if a state does not go as far as federal law because federal law still applies through the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Your point that the law changes widely from FL to CA is simply wrong with respect to the application of 18 U.S.C.A. S 922(g)(4). There may be small variations between U.S. circuit court interpretations (with the primary circuit split on this issue coming from the Eighth Circuit), but the law otherwise has uniform application.

I have not nor did I initially refer to the federal code, so maybe that was his issue.

[Gray222]

Just so people don't get confused...I'd verify this locally...

http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-and-criminal-justice/possession-of-a-firearm-by-the-mentally-ill.aspx

Most states have their own stricter or sometimes varying definitions of, and how they apply it sometimes varies.

[ranger]

As a combat vet who is dealing with the VA now - I have to point this out - once you are formally diagnosed with PTSD you are formally labeled with PTSD forever. This issue may not be what is the law now but what is the law in the future. If you need help - by all means get it.

[UNK]

Forever? There is no way to have this decision reversed? Counseling meds treatment etc etc


As a combat vet who is dealing with the VA now - I have to point this out - once you are formally diagnosed with PTSD you are formally labeled with PTSD forever. This issue may not be what is the law now but what is the law in the future. If you need help - by all means get it.

[jeep45238]

Depends on the state, but err on the side of caution. In Ohio for example, if you're determined by court to be mentally ill (with definition, and the judge isn't a councilor or therapist), you're not ever going to get a concealed carry. That can carry over to 4473s and effectively keep you from buying and owning.

On an unrelated front, you're not that far away from me. I can't say that I'll be able to directly relate, but I'm here to vent, talk to, drink beer, lift weights, and out shoot me on the range. No judgement, and I've had some friends that almost took their lives over this. One had their only bad primer they've experienced on a Speer GD with the muzzle in their mouth- that shit isn't worth hiding onto.

Hit me up.

[olstyn]

As has been pointed out, the federal mental health prohibition applies to a person who has been committed to a mental institution or adjudicated as a mental defective. Congress (very unhelpfully) didn't feel the need to include definitions for these terms in the statute, so ATF has provided definitions via regulations in 27 C.F.R. 478.11. Those definitions are:

Hm, the way that first one is worded seems to indicate that it's impossible for women to be a danger to themselves or others, and that they are all able to manage their own affairs. That, or it's just REALLY poorly written, at least in terms of pronoun choices. Not often you find something that's even accidentally sexist against men. :P

[DMF13]

I have not nor did I initially refer to the federal code, so maybe that was his issue.No, my "issue" is that you made a statement that is not true, about the "only" way a person could be prohibited from possessing firearms/ammunition, and then started acting like a jerk when your error was pointed out.

Again, you said, "The only time any mental health issues cause a person to be restricted from carrying, handling or buying a firearm is when they have been committed for mental evaluation *and* admitted for something."

That is not true, as I explained, because the federal law (18USC922(g)(4)), which applies to the whole US, states that an adjudication as a mental defective can create a firearms disability, and no commitment (or as you choose to say, "admitted for something") is required. It happens quite frequently that someone is adjudicated a mental defective, but has never been committed ("admitted") for treatment related to the mental health problems. The adjudication alone creates the prohibition on owning firearms, and therefore your statement that the "only" way to be prohibited includes having "been committed for a mental evaluation *and* admitted for something,"(sic) was not correct at all.

You said something that was utterly and completely false about the law, and as someone who claims to be a LEO people might rely on that bad info, so it needed to be corrected.

Your statement, which I've quoted again, was completely wrong. You chose to make that statement, when you were clearly ignorant of the legal realities. Rather, than read what was posted explaining the error (including the citation of the relevant law), and understand you posted bad info, you decided to act like a baby.

If this is how you act with regard to errors you make about the law, I feel sorry for your co-workers, the attorneys, judges, and juries, that have to deal with you on the job.