Took the "Intro to IDPA" class today

[Wobblie]

at the local club. I haven't shot competition for 30 years. I was the only guy shooting a real gun. Everyone else had some form of plastic POS in a plastic holster. Times have changed.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Ummm, what's a real gun? Wait, nevermind.

[Zincwarrior]

at the local club. I haven't shot competition for 30 years. I was the only guy shooting a real gun. Everyone else had some form of plastic POS in a plastic holster. Times have changed.

Thats the spirit. 1911?

[Luke]

I shoot an all steel gun as well. Not sure why these whipper snappers keep shooting that Tupperware.

[miller_man]

No way! - something evolved in 30 years?

Don't worry - nobody wins with those POS.

[Edwin]

So how badly did you beat everyone with your real gun? Post the scores.

[GJM]

Let's hear about your vest -- 100 percent cotton or cheap blend?

[olstyn]

I shoot an all steel gun as well. Not sure why these whipper snappers keep shooting that Tupperware.

How much did Tatiana cost, and how much additional cost has she incurred in parts since initial purchase? ;)

[Luke]

How much did Tatiana cost, and how much additional cost has she incurred in parts since initial purchase? ;)

Son you wouldn't understand. Fine nonamerican made firearms don't come cheap. A man can pride him self in having bought a quality firearm no matter the price.



I just asked my wife. She has confirmed we keep our left over speghetti in Tupperware made in smyrna.







;)

[45dotACP]

A real gun? So you weren't shooting a 1911 in .40 but in .45?

;)

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[jetfire]

at the local club. I haven't shot competition for 30 years. I was the only guy shooting a real gun. Everyone else had some form of plastic POS in a plastic holster. Times have changed.

I can't tell if this is sincere or a clever troll post.

My radar for this stuff is totally fucked.


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[olstyn]

Son you wouldn't understand. Fine nonamerican made firearms don't come cheap. A man can pride him self in having bought a quality firearm no matter the price.

I guess that depends on what you consider to be "fine." I like guns that don't break every five minutes. :)


I can't tell if this is sincere or a clever troll post.

My radar for this stuff is totally fucked.

I'm fairly certain this whole thread is just all of us trolling each other back and forth. As long as we're all having fun, it's all good, right?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

So I shot a 1911 today. But it was an SW 1911Sc Commander. Scandium - what the hell is that? Real men don't shoot scandium guns. Real guns are Walker Colts - reloads take a bit of time though.

[Luke]

Real men aren't concerned with reloading. When you carry a 1911 in .45 all you need it 8.


I've thought about carrying one just as a deterrent. "Woah now robbers! This here's a .45. *scatters*

[The Apprentice]

Competition and 1911's will get you killed in da streetz

[Luke]

Competition and 1911's will get you killed in da streetz

Only uspsa..

[Wobblie]

I can't tell if this is sincere or a clever troll post.

My radar for this stuff is totally fucked.


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Not a troll, just an observation on how thing have changed since I shot USPSA years ago, before classes and optics, when all my shooting buddies shot 1911s tuned by the late Charlie Mills. Feeling nostalgic.

[Peally]

In that case where's the scoreboard with your "real" gun? ;)

Times change. Technology improves. In 40 years we'll be trolling old guys shooting Glocks when they're "classics"

[MGW]

So I'm going to guess carry optics is not manly because they only do that in USPSA. They're all gamers and gamers aren't real men.

Then again they have a device that basically turns a pistol into a laser beam. And laser beams are manly.

I'm conflicted.

[jetfire]

In that case where's the scoreboard with your "real" gun? ;)

Times change. Technology improves. In 40 years we'll be trolling old guys shooting Glocks when they're "classics"

Everyone will be shooting welfare open guns with 2.5 pound triggers and onboard comps and I'll be like "I remember when we called that 'Modified' division."


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[Wobblie]

So I'm going to guess carry optics is not manly because they only do that in USPSA. They're all gamers and gamers aren't real men.

Then again they have a device that basically turns a pistol into a laser beam. And laser beams are manly.

I'm conflicted.
I'm not anti-technology. My 1911 may eventually be fitted with carry optics, but I have sold all of my plastic guns. Tried 'em and went back.

[Wobblie]

In that case where's the scoreboard with your "real" gun? ;)

Times change. Technology improves. In 40 years we'll be trolling old guys shooting Glocks when they're "classics"

I'll shoot the match next weekend and see how the old guy with antiquated equipment measures up.

[Peally]

For the record I'm just gently trolling you. A POS 1911 or a POS Glock doesn't matter to me. Guns are boring, performance is interesting. JMHO.

[Wobblie]

For the record I'm just gently trolling you. A POS 1911 or a POS Glock doesn't matter to me. Guns are boring, performance is interesting. JMHO.
As for performance, I did learn I need to train better. At the range I've been casually reloading from my front pocket, being too lazy to put on a mag pouch. The class had two short stages at the end. Guess where my hand went to retrieve a fresh mag at reload time.

[rjohnson4405]

As for performance, I did learn I need to train better. At the range I've been casually reloading from my front pocket, being too lazy to put on a mag pouch. The class had two short stages at the end. Guess where my hand went to retrieve a fresh mag at reload time.

So you're too lazy to put on a mag pouch, but the problem with competition these days is equipment related (i.e. plastic guns)?

Not sure why everyone is encouraging you to do anything but go away, and quickly. Read more, post less.

[Zincwarrior]

I can't tell if this is sincere or a clever troll post.

My radar for this stuff is totally fucked.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All real men shoot Colt Cap n Balls. Sure it takes longer to reload. That just gets everyone else a chance to admire the clouds of black powder smoke.

[Wobblie]

So you're too lazy to put on a mag pouch, but the problem with competition these days is equipment related (i.e. plastic guns)?

Not sure why everyone is encouraging you to do anything but go away, and quickly. Read more, post less.

You should probably schedule an appointment to have that stick taken out of your ass.

[Peally]

You're not allowed to un-ass-stick anyone, you were just complaining about how no one uses a horribly dated gun from when the Model T was invented, Charlie Chaplin was popular, and cowboys still looked like extras in a Clint Eastwood film.

Ass-stick-removal specialist credentials have been revoked!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I expect in the USPSA or IDPA discussions of 2157 AD when the appropriate gamma ray laser division is debated, someone will still be shooting a 1911 and bitching about the self-guided AI rounds fired from the Glock 92.

I recall an old TV show https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_.45_(TV_series), where the hero as cover, sold Colt SAA and had to listen to old farts opine that the cap and ball guns were so much better.

[jetfire]

This thread friggin' delivers

[Jim Watson]

I recall an old TV show https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_.45_(TV_series), where the hero as cover, sold Colt SAA and had to listen to old farts opine that the cap and ball guns were so much better.

Well, there was the mountain man who defended his flintlock at the rendezvous by saying he could always chip a flint but when you ran out of them "nipple covers" in the mountains, you were out of luck.

[funkymonkey1111]

I'll shoot the match next weekend and see how the old guy with antiquated equipment measures up.

How did you do in that match, grandpa?

Did you drive your '75 cutlass to the match?

[cclaxton]

Wobblie,
Welcome to IDPA competition. Don't let these trolls bother you. Nothing wrong with a 1911. But also, nothing wrong with a well-adjusted Glock 34, either. The more people we have participating in IDPA or USPSA, the better gun-handling skills they will have, and the more safe they will be. Please keep going and improve over time. If you carry concealed consider taking pepper-spray class and some basic combatives. A gun is not always the best response to a situation.
Cody

[Totem Polar]

Q: how many 1911 shooters does it take to change a light bulb?


A: At least ten; one to change the bulb, and nine to stand around and talk about how cool the old one was...

[Sal Picante]

at the local club. I haven't shot competition for 30 years. I was the only guy shooting a real gun. Everyone else had some form of plastic POS in a plastic holster. Times have changed.

The real question is: "Did you catch gay?"

[FNFAN]

Q: how many 1911 shooters does it take to change a light bulb?


A: At least ten; one to change the bulb, and nine to stand around and talk about how cool the old one was...

According to a November 2011 edition of the Vancouver Sun, a study from Natural Resources Canada revealed that fluorescent lights could intensify light sensitivity, a trigger of migraines for some individuals.

A study by the UK Migraine Action Association (2007) found that fluorescent lights cause nausea, dizziness, and even physical pain for those suffering with lupus.

Here in the United States, concern about the affects fluorescent lighting prompted the state of California to make accommodations available for students with light sensitivity, allowing them to take tests in rooms that do not have fluorescent lights.

And a posting on Headachemag.com may have summed it all up: “I wear a visor and wrap around sunglasses in church, malls and in friends homes. The new light bulbs are killing me.”

;)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've been shooting my 1911 in the past few matches. Reason - I have a zillion 45 ACP 100 round WWB cartons that I bought fearing the Hillary Zombie Apocalypse. Don't want to leave them to my heirs. I get through most stages very accurately but slowly in my FOG style. One stage stunk as I decided to shoot it as fast as I could and got crappy hits. It was an experiment and I wasn't getting aligned on the second shot.

[jetfire]

I wondered who brought this thread back from the dead.

[Hambo]

Did you drive your '75 cutlass to the match?

I'm sure he did, while listening to CCR on eight track.

[HCM]

How did you do in that match, grandpa?

Did you drive your '75 cutlass to the match?

Don't be hat'in on the 75 Cutlass Dog...

15654

[45dotACP]

Oh man this thread is back! Loving it.

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[JJC]

In the Jesuit tradition, "Arise and walk, thread."

[LearnedHat]

Let's hear about your vest -- 100 percent cotton or cheap blend?

The guy at my LGS sold me this.

https://bamfstyle.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bi02asweater.jpg

I'm having the widow lady next door crochet the Beretta Trident on it.

[FNFAN]

Olde timey gun shooters should put our heads together and develop a nice beltfed system for the gang that shoots that other spray n' pray double-stack type shooting sport. We could probably enlist one or more of our custom kydex crafters to make an AIWB rig for it. Patent this new Weapons System™ and donate the funds to the Olde Timey Gun Shooters Federation.:rolleyes:

[Wobblie]

Why is this thread alive?
Update: I hate those stupid fishing vests.
Gave up on the 1911, went to a SIG P226 SAO.
Driving a VW GTI after my Mustang Cobra was rear-ended.
I usually listen to classical music on WMFE public radio on the way to the range.
Spending way too much time developing bunny-fart handloads using effete French gunpowder.

[cclaxton]

Why is this thread alive?
Update: I hate those stupid fishing vests.
Gave up on the 1911, went to a SIG P226 SAO.
Driving a VW GTI after my Mustang Cobra was rear-ended.
I usually listen to classical music on WMFE public radio on the way to the range.
Spending way too much time developing bunny-fart handloads using effete French gunpowder.
IDPA is very much alive and well. And, last time I checked old people had a right to defend themselves. And, last time I checked, it was really rude and mean to make fun of old people. And, last time I checked, people are free to wear whatever they want to shooting matches or elsewhere.
Seems like it is YOU who needs to wise up to modern culture.
Cody

[Zincwarrior]

I actually like my shoot me first vests. I have one thats lined with lined pockets and great when its cold. I don't wear them much though, as Central is about NINE THOUSAND DEGREES most of the year.

[cclaxton]

I actually like my shoot me first vests. I have one thats lined with lined pockets and great when its cold. I don't wear them much though, as Central is about NINE THOUSAND DEGREES most of the year.
I have asked publicly for anyone to pull up an incident where a guy with a vest was shot first because he/she was wearing a vest and no one can demonstrate EVEN ONE incident. Criminals just don't think that way whether sociopaths or common criminals.
Cody

[Jim Watson]

Saw a tv commercial "Nobody reads the fine print but the old guy with binoculars."
The old guy is wearing a nice long pocket vest. I wonder if he is carrying.

[GuanoLoco]

15960

[Wobblie]

IDPA is very much alive and well. And, last time I checked old people had a right to defend themselves. And, last time I checked, it was really rude and mean to make fun of old people. And, last time I checked, people are free to wear whatever they want to shooting matches or elsewhere.
Seems like it is YOU who needs to wise up to modern culture.
Cody

Well, I'm 69 so I would make fun of old people only in the most self-deprecating manner. I am not so old I can't learn valuable lessons, however, like don't start a tongue-in-cheek thread in a forum filled with Deadly Serious Shooters.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I have now started to carry a fault line disguised as cane. When attacked I will drop it in front of me. Thus, my IDPA practice will transfer to the streets and I will not be killed. Now I am sure that standing behind the fault cane but even if out in the open, I will be protected from in coming rounds. In my squad, last week, two guys were in their 50's, the rest were 60's and 70's. Surprisingly, we seem to hit the targets pretty accurately.

[cclaxton]

Well, I'm 69 so I would make fun of old people only in the most self-deprecating manner. I am not so old I can't learn valuable lessons, however, like don't start a tongue-in-cheek thread in a forum filled with Deadly Serious Shooters.
This is the IDPA section, not a joke section. You wanna make funny, go do it in the funny section please.
Cody

[rjohnson4405]

Well, I'm 69 so I would make fun of old people only in the most self-deprecating manner. I am not so old I can't learn valuable lessons, however, like don't start a tongue-in-cheek thread in a forum filled with Deadly Serious Shooters.

In our (my) defense, the internet is full of tards who would not be saying those things tongue-in-cheek and you used no emojis or font modifications so in internet speak it was serious. :D

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Gee, do we have to drop telling jokes at the matches? At a recent match, the SO asked us during walk through whether his vest made him look fat? I said it did and his dresses did to. Not that there was anything wrong with that. Lighten up, Cody.

[cclaxton]

I have now started to carry a fault line disguised as cane. When attacked I will drop it in front of me. Thus, my IDPA practice will transfer to the streets and I will not be killed. Now I am sure that standing behind the fault cane but even if out in the open, I will be protected from in coming rounds. In my squad, last week, two guys were in their 50's, the rest were 60's and 70's. Surprisingly, we seem to hit the targets pretty accurately.
I love the fault lines, and I have run over 60 IDPA matches in my career. While it's true there are no fault lines in real life, as a stage designer I can put fault lines in ways that exercise a shooter's position in ways I could not under the old rules. For instance, I can make the fault lines so acute that the shooter has no choice but to use far cover. I couldn't do that before. I can also make the fault line USPSA style AND use cleverly placed non-threats with layers of priority that require the shooter to really think about priority and risk to a non-threat. I couldn't do that before.

My only complaint is that people are looking at the ground when they arrive at a fault line, and that is not the best habit. On the other hand under the old rules I always looked at the ground when I was moving to a new position of cover because I had a mental picture where my foot needed to be, so I am not convinced it is much different.

In any case I really like fault lines in IDPA.
Cody

[cclaxton]

Gee, do we have to drop telling jokes at the matches? At a recent match, the SO asked us during walk through whether his vest made him look fat? I said it did and his dresses did to. Not that there was anything wrong with that. Lighten up, Cody.
Glenn, There's a big difference between telling jokes at matches and making fun of IDPA on a serious handgun forum. The problem is that it attracts trolls, who will start to crap all over everything and everyone. Pistol Forum should do a better job of making this a professional forum and keeping out the trolls and the malicious behavior.
Cody

[GuanoLoco]

16017

[Zincwarrior]

This is the IDPA section, not a joke section. You wanna make funny, go do it in the funny section please.
Cody

Because I Don't Practice Anymore is serious bidness. :cool:
Probably best to get back to topic.

Fault lines: They are much easier from a gaming perspective. From a setting up the stage perspective, how are you seeing it being handled vs. an array of targets you're facing (ie say shooting at a line of three targets from one position)? Generally on my stages I've been putting them down the middle of the array of targets in such that you have the line is still real cover from the last target or two (but not so bad that you have to crazy lean out-if you've got issues and are setting up the stage those lines are going to be generous:) )

Since fault lines have been put in place I rarely see a cover call. I bet this is going to kill the SOs that do the Blade-tech competitions in Dallas-they love cover calls...:cool:

[cclaxton]

Because I Don't Practice Anymore is serious bidness. :cool:
Probably best to get back to topic.

Fault lines: They are much easier from a gaming perspective. From a setting up the stage perspective, how are you seeing it being handled vs. an array of targets you're facing (ie say shooting at a line of three targets from one position)? Generally on my stages I've been putting them down the middle of the array of targets in such that you have the line is still real cover from the last target or two (but not so bad that you have to crazy lean out-if you've got issues and are setting up the stage those lines are going to be generous:) )

Since fault lines have been put in place I rarely see a cover call. I bet this is going to kill the SOs that do the Blade-tech competitions in Dallas-they love cover calls...:cool:

I have been trying all possible options, and I have done one stage where the shooter was really forced to lean hard from far cover (no wall to hold on to), and I have done other stages where it's almost like shooting in the open (but because there is a fault line, must slice the pie). And, I have done more traditional fault line placement as well. Because I am more into the self-defense aspects, I tend to use acute use of fault lines because I think most shooters crowd cover and need to practice far cover. They tell me it is hard...okay...that is the intended result I was looking for. Nobody complains about the fault lines at my matches.

I do get a few who complain that the fault lines are not raised/tactile. I do some of both. I think it is good to get used to both since sanctioned matches won't all have tactile fault lines. I use yellow polyethylene rope with large stakes to build them in the open and duct tape and wooden sticks indoors.

Cody

[Zincwarrior]

Indoors we use red tape generally. Outdoors I have seen, stakes, sprayed lines, and rope like you mentioned.

Interestingly, if you do the geometry, if you're trying to see less crowding cover, you would have to be more generous with the line.
Look at this incredibly detailed diagram:
T1


wall


S1



S2

S1, if leans out will be able to target more area in front, vs. S2, if both can only lean out the same distance. (use a ruler and 3mm for each to see). I've found this in practice as well (as I don't like to crowd barriers).

[GuanoLoco]

Tactile fault lines for shooting positions solve a lot of issues. Learn from other shooting disciplines. And yes, I deal with indoor and outdoor setup. Visual guides like paint/rope/etc. are good for outlining shooting areas, not so good for tight shooting positions for shooters and SO/RO's.

[cclaxton]

An example of a stage I ran last night. (P1 was part of another stage). The shooter started at P2, retreated while engaging then slice the pie to the left. Right side was there for re-engagement of first 4 targets. Staying back from barrels and difficult leaning was required.
Mine are not all like this. But I have been putting 1-2 stages like this in every match. It's interesting to watch shooters start moving back to get to the inside targets...exactly what I was looking to achieve. Cody
16019

[Zincwarrior]

Ok I see more clearly now.

[modrecoil]

An example of a stage I ran last night. (P1 was part of another stage). The shooter started at P2, retreated while engaging then slice the pie to the left. Right side was there for re-engagement of first 4 targets. Staying back from barrels and difficult leaning was required.
Mine are not all like this. But I have been putting 1-2 stages like this in every match. It's interesting to watch shooters start moving back to get to the inside targets...exactly what I was looking to achieve. Cody
16019
That was a good stage, Cody. Accomplished what was intended. I managed to get a PE before realizing how far back I needed to go to engage P1 targets and then bumped into the 600lb briefcase you made us carry :P... because I stupidly dropped it behind me. Definitely user error. Not easy but edumacational and well-designed. You're putting the new rules to good use.

[taadski]

I'm pretty pleased with the new fault line rules. As noted, stage designers can force folks into much more difficult shooting positions if desired. But more importantly, it takes away the subjective nature of the cover calls that so many (myself included) found objectionable. I think it's a notable step forward. And we should be thanking the "trolls" for making the 'issues' more well known. ;)

[DAB]

An example of a stage I ran last night. (P1 was part of another stage). The shooter started at P2, retreated while engaging then slice the pie to the left. Right side was there for re-engagement of first 4 targets. Staying back from barrels and difficult leaning was required.
Mine are not all like this. But I have been putting 1-2 stages like this in every match. It's interesting to watch shooters start moving back to get to the inside targets...exactly what I was looking to achieve. Cody
16019

so you had to do 8 shots while retreating?

6.6.25 Stages with one or more cover positions will not present targets in the open requiring more than 6 shots while the shooter is out of cover. However, there may be more than one of these type engagements in a single stage.

also, the way the fault lines are drawn looks suspect:

6.3.E. Fault lines used to mark a PoC extend from the end of the physical objects used up range to the stage boundary to accommodate long-cover.

am i missing something here?

[cclaxton]

so you had to do 8 shots while retreating?
6.6.25 Stages with one or more cover positions will not present targets in the open requiring more than 6 shots while the shooter is out of cover. However, there may be more than one of these type engagements in a single stage. also, the way the fault lines are drawn looks suspect:
6.3.E. Fault lines used to mark a PoC extend from the end of the physical objects used up range to the stage boundary to accommodate long-cover.
am i missing something here?

Actually the COF was that the shooter was only required to make 1 shot each while retreating, and could either go to cover to do the other 4 shots or take all 8 while retreating. That makes it legal.

Fault line rules also say:
"3.6.3B: Physical objects used (wood, rope, barrels, walls), as Fault Lines, to delineate cover must start at the cover object (e.g. wall, barrel, etc.) and extend back away from cover in the up-range direction. The object used to mark the line must extend back away from the cover object at least 3 feet."
and,
6.3C. "Fault Lines must be placed in a manner which promotes the Principles of Shooting IDPA in Section 1.2
6.3D. "Fault lines must outline the general boundary for each point of cover wherein a shooter may safely engage all available targets from that position as an option in shooting a stage."

The net effect of all these rules, and especially 6.3C allows Match Directors to design stages that encourage use of cover that "reflect self-defense principles" as addressed in section 1.2. Also, 1.2.2 F. "Shooting from behind cover is a basic premise of IDPA. Competitors will use all available cover in a CoF."

During our meetings with HQ, they wanted to provide more flexibility for MD's to design stages, but put more reliance on section 1.2 of the rulebook. That is EXACTLY what I am doing with this stage: Challenging shooters to use cover in a manner that requires use of cover that reflects self-defense principles (i.e.-far cover, more leaning, etc.)

What was the purpose of your post?...To try and catch me with an illegal stage? Why did you leave out the other relevant rules? What was your motivation?
Cody

[GuanoLoco]

Herb tea, man. Drink it.