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View Full Version : Semi-automatic shotguns - what is the state of the art?



Nephrology
11-23-2016, 05:21 PM
Last night I had a vivid dream that I was shooting a semi-automatic shotgun (maybe a benelli?) with some kind of red dot optic, a pistol grip stock and a light. The only thing I remember about it was that it was absolutely awesome. I have cool dreams sometimes.

So, even though I'm also pricing out a bolt gun build.... I thought a semi auto shotgun was an idea worth considering too. The gun I have in mind is would be semi automatic, with the option to mount a light and red dot (ideally with some iron sight cowitness). Pistol grip is optional but what I am leaning towards.

So, questions...

1) What gun would make the best base for this? Leaning towards the Benelli M4 but considering the FN SLP and Beretta 1301 as well.
2) What red dot? Would I be looking at an aimpoint micro or even smaller (RMR? Burris fastfire?)
3) This depends somewhat on the answer to 1), but what light mounting options are most optimal for what I want?
4) Anything else? Is this a worthwhile endeavor? My desire for this is a combination of practical (home defense) and recreational (the idea sounds awesome). Not a sport-specific driven purchase.

David S.
11-23-2016, 06:00 PM
Dagga Boy preferred the Benelli with Aimpoint Micro, side saddle, and single point sling at his recent shotgun class. I don't remember what light he was running. He specifically mentioned preferring certain features over the PF fave 1301.

Then again, Bolke isn't exactly known around here for being "state of the art." ��

Luke
11-23-2016, 07:44 PM
Jealous. Last night I dreamed I was eatin by a bear. 3rd time this year, not sure what this means.

GJM
11-23-2016, 07:52 PM
Jealous. Last night I dreamed I was eatin by a bear. 3rd time this year, not sure what this means.

Sometime I will tell you my bear hunting joke.

Back to the OP. If your idea of a light truck is a Raptor, get a Benelli M4. If you want all around great, get a Benelli M2. If you are cheap, get a 1301 T.

5pins
11-23-2016, 08:20 PM
Versa Max Tactical. Reliable and very soft shooting.

SJC3081
11-23-2016, 08:25 PM
I have a M4 with a T1,ADM low mount. I shoot 2.75 slugs and am very happy with accuracy and realibility.

SLG
11-23-2016, 08:43 PM
Jealous. Last night I dreamed I was eatin by a bear. 3rd time this year, not sure what this means.

It means you need to shoot better.

Eric_L
11-23-2016, 09:14 PM
Jealous. Last night I dreamed I was eatin by a bear. 3rd time this year, not sure what this means.

It means you are friends with the bear- eatin' by a bear. Now, if you were eaten by a bear, that is a problem.......

Yes I contributed nothing here. Fun with spelling.

SeriousStudent
11-23-2016, 10:57 PM
I have shot all of those shotguns you mentioned, and honestly favor the 1301T. Mine is set up like DocGKR's.

I like the gas-operated recoil system which also reduces recoil, the speed of operation, and the light weight. It's a lot of fun with a T-1 and a Surefire U-Boat.

Just my opinion, I only have about 450 rounds through mine. But that has been everything from light trap loads to Federal DPRS slugs, as well as the Brenneke SF Magnums.

Maple Syrup Actual
11-24-2016, 01:29 AM
The publisher of my magazine was a thousand-rounds-a-week shotgun shooter for a long time and he's my go-to guy for shotgun questions. I think he was vying for an olympic spot at one time; his best friend left the country and is gaming for a spot on the US trap team now IIRC.

They're both big believers in the Versamax. Neither of them are especially "tactical" although the publisher is moderately so. Both of them shoot more shotgun in an average year than I probably will in my life.

So I don't have any personal insight for you but I can report that the people I deal with that are hard core shotgun guys on a level that radically exceeds my interest in pretty much anything other than women, seem to be pretty convinced of the merits of the Versamax.

ASH556
11-24-2016, 10:49 AM
I'm an average (at best) 3gunner, but I do have the good fortune of shooting with guys like Rob Romero and Erik Lund since both are local. Rob has been a team shooter for both Benelli and Remington. Currently, not having any shotgun sponsorship, he's shooting a Benelli. According to him, the barrel lock up on the Remington Versamax does not allow for consistent slug accuracy. To me, an inertia gun wins over a gas gun for long term reliability's sake. They are weight sensitive, but test your gear, and you'll be fine. My M1's run bulk target loads 100%. As far as pistol grip and light placement, that's 100% personal preference.

Pat Kelly and SLG's wife wife have more 3gun experience than I do. Maybe they'll chime in.

I know 3gun isn't your ultimate goal, but is one of the few proving grounds for shotguns now that most things on the tactical side are centered around the carbine.

Dagga Boy
11-24-2016, 10:57 AM
Dagga Boy preferred the Benelli with Aimpoint Micro, side saddle, and single point sling at his recent shotgun class. I don't remember what light he was running. He specifically mentioned preferring certain features over the PF fave 1301.

Then again, Bolke isn't exactly known around here for being "state of the art." ��


Sometime I will tell you my bear hunting joke.

Back to the OP. If your idea of a light truck is a Raptor, get a Benelli M4. If you want all around great, get a Benelli M2. If you are cheap, get a 1301 T.


Okay....enough fiction on the internet. I shot two guns in class. The one with the Aimpoint Micro, side saddle and single point was actually my full house Vang Remington 870 built by Hans when he was still in Goleta CA. First gun he ever did with a picatinny rail. It is daddy's baby and has been through more classes than I can remember and is a stellar hard use gun.
The other gun I was shooting was a basically dead stock Benelli M1 HK marked Super 90 with a two point Vickers sling. It is like the guns we used on our SWAT team and what I used to shoot in three gun when I could run a semi auto. Really a throw back, but a gun I simply love for a light, simple fast shooting 12ga. I even use a short mag tube and run no accessories on them.
As GJM stated the M4's are the Raptor of shotguns, and it is on my list as a heavy gun to run a light, red dot and side saddle. Totally different than what I want as a carry gun for the field. I have a bit of a personal issue with getting blown off by Berreta on the 1301 when I pointed out issues with the 1301 at a cop show, which included proving right in front of them that they had an issue. For a lightweight semi auto with a red dot, I would likely lean to the M2. I really liked the Beretta T4, and GJM's old gun was about perfect in my eyes.

Lost River
11-24-2016, 11:25 AM
Sometime I will tell you my bear hunting joke.



"You're not here for the bear hunting are you?"

GJM
11-24-2016, 11:34 AM
"You're not here for the bear hunting are you?"

Yep!

SteveB
11-24-2016, 01:15 PM
Another vote for the Benelli M2; this one has the Scalarworks RMR mount, vey slick, low profile, co-witness:

11853

11854

Eric_L
11-24-2016, 02:37 PM
Yep!

That joke was over on the old snipers hide about Frank- Lowlight-and it was funny.......you need to post it.

GJM
11-24-2016, 02:40 PM
That joke was over on the old snipers hide about Frank- Lowlight-and it was funny.......you need to post it.

It is better in person after a few beers.

Eric_L
11-24-2016, 02:44 PM
Another vote for the Benelli M2; this one has the Scalarworks RMR mount, vey slick, low profile, co-witness:

11853

11854


How do you like the comfortech stock? I have an M2 like that but it is pistol grip. Reminds me of the ARs. It will occasionally fail to feed light payload shells, 1 1/8 oz loads. I had a local three gunner who is a Benelli shooter look, he said it is the action spring. Either get the lighter stock Benelli spring or else a fix which he described, if I wanted to run lighter load shells. It runs fine with buckshot which is what I run in it. I elected to leave the spring......

GJM
11-24-2016, 02:59 PM
How do you like the comfortech stock? I have an M2 like that but it is pistol grip. Reminds me of the ARs. It will occasionally fail to feed light payload shells, 1 1/8 oz loads. I had a local three gunner who is a Benelli shooter look, he said it is the action spring. Either get the lighter stock Benelli spring or else a fix which he described, if I wanted to run lighter load shells. It runs fine with buckshot which is what I run in it. I elected to leave the spring......

I tested a 14 inch M2 with the factory pistol grip stock and the Comfertech. No comparison shooting slugs, the Comfortech was mo better!

Dagga Boy
11-24-2016, 04:10 PM
If it's for the shell dump/multiple shells on the lifter issue, that's sorta been addressed (http://taudevgroup.com/1301/) -- just not by Beretta (although they have a couple of dozen of my shrouds for evaluation...). :)

The guys who ran the 1301 in class showed it to me. I may need to get over some of the folks beretta hires. Between the "it is fine, there is nothing wrong with it as a police gun" and the moron I talked to at SHOT on them, it makes it tough. Many of the companies are so bad at dealing with issues.

Totem Polar
11-24-2016, 04:18 PM
It is better in person after a few beers.

Let's split the difference: you go over to the joke thread and start typing, and I'll drain a few cans of stout. Meet back here in 15...

Nephrology
11-24-2016, 10:32 PM
Another vote for the Benelli M2; this one has the Scalarworks RMR mount, vey slick, low profile, co-witness:

11853

11854

Does the M2 need to be drilled/tapped for that picatinny mount?


and the moron I talked to at SHOT on them, it makes it tough. Many of the companies are so bad at dealing with issues.

The hardest thing about being wrong is saying so out loud...

GJM
11-24-2016, 10:35 PM
Does the M2 need to be drilled/tapped for that picatinny mount?

Varies by model. The 18 inch Tactical in Steve's picture is drilled, and some of my field length models are not. M4 is drilled as is Tactical length SuperNova.

Nephrology
11-24-2016, 10:36 PM
Varies by model. The 18 inch Tactical in Steve's picture is drilled, and some of my field length models are not. M4 is drilled as is Tactical length SuperNova.

Hrm. So if I was dead set on running a red dot on this I may as well spring for the m4?

GJM
11-24-2016, 10:38 PM
Hrm. So if I was dead set on running a red dot on this I may as well spring for the m4?

M2 Tactical is also drilled.

Nephrology
11-24-2016, 10:38 PM
M2 Tactical is also drilled.

...Oooh.

SecondsCount
11-24-2016, 11:28 PM
Although a softer recoiling gas gun would be a bonus, I really like the simplicity of a Benelli. My M1 just works.

Dagga Boy
11-24-2016, 11:32 PM
I really wanted an M2 with a clean receiver to run a red dot on. Bought one and got the Mesa Tactical mount that combines a side saddle and rail. The M2 arrived and had no holes drilled. Turns out it is only with the Tactical Model. I did not want the tall irons. I sold the gun and have been debating the M4. My M4 money keeps getting spent on high end revolvers. If I was still a working cop, the M4 would be a priority. For a home defense gun, what I have is fine.

David S.
11-25-2016, 10:41 AM
Okay....enough fiction on the internet. ....

oops. Sorry for the misrepresentation. I rekkin' I combined what I recall of your thoughts on the two shotguns.

Dagga Boy
11-25-2016, 05:59 PM
oops. Sorry for the misrepresentation. I rekkin' I combined what I recall of your thoughts on the two shotguns.

Easy mistake with me switching them off. No biggie...I should have put more smilie....;)

abu fitna
11-26-2016, 01:03 PM
How do you like the comfortech stock? ..

It definitely makes a differrence on long days. Kinda crept up on me, but the wife was the one who fell in love with the m2 tactical with that stock and it is definitely her shotgun now. she is just over 5' but can still run the 12ga hard when she wants or needs to.

HCM
11-27-2016, 03:19 AM
Remington 11-87P 12 Gauge Police Trade-in Shotguns (Good Condition)

http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/117288

Rex G
11-27-2016, 07:17 AM
I may be about to bite the bullet, and just buy an M2 Tactical. I would prefer an M4, but my command staff only allow the 870 and M1/M2, for any shotgun I will use at work, or off the clock, for any official purpose. (Defending self or others, except at home, is an "official purpose.") OTOH, as I am in the twilight of my career, anyway, I may just wait until I retire, and buy an M4. I have two 870P shotguns I can use until then.

The reason for the Tactical version is that it is D&T'ed for the rail, and because I can get one from an LE distributor for a somewhat lower price. I want to mount a T1, because all iron sights are now just about worthless for my aging eyes. I have knocked eyeglasses askew while shouldering long guns, and I do not wear my specs while sleeping.

BillSWPA
11-27-2016, 05:23 PM
Can anyone comment on the reliability of an 11-87 as compared to a 1301 or a Benelli?



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P.E. Kelley
11-27-2016, 06:47 PM
Can anyone comment on the reliability of an 11-87 as compared to a 1301 or a Benelli?



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Just say no to the 11-87. It was an attempt to make the 1100 more of an all round gun to
handle light target through heavy field loads. It didn't do all that very well.

The 1100's were great tools. Made between introduction 1963? and about 1983...Big Green had (has) issues with
stacking tolerances and worn and old tech tooling. I modified better than a dozen of them many years ago for 3 gun comps.

Get an older one that has low miles and you'd be fine. That said...Benelli M2 #1, (sure M4 with the Argo gas stuff) Beretta 1301 #2 A heck
of a good gas gun and stupid fast cycling!. Versa Max...needs parts from a Benelli to make it last.

I was lucky to spend time with Roberto Vezzoli from the Italian Beretta Factory Team. He was the motive force behind
some of the Competition Model modifications.

Keep in mind that I am a competition shooter and advanced plinker...I don't profess any knowledge in the Tactical side of shooting.

BillSWPA
11-27-2016, 07:57 PM
Just say no to the 11-87. It was an attempt to make the 1100 more of an all round gun to
handle light target through heavy field loads. It didn't do all that very well.

The 1100's were great tools. Made between introduction 1963? and about 1983...Big Green had (has) issues with
stacking tolerances and worn and old tech tooling. I modified better than a dozen of them many years ago for 3 gun comps.

Get an older one that has low miles and you'd be fine. That said...Benelli M2 #1, (sure M4 with the Argo gas stuff) Beretta 1301 #2 A heck
of a good gas gun and stupid fast cycling!. Versa Max...needs parts from a Benelli to make it last.

I was lucky to spend time with Roberto Vezzoli from the Italian Beretta Factory Team. He was the motive force behind
some of the Competition Model modifications.

Keep in mind that I am a competition shooter and advanced plinker...I don't profess any knowledge in the Tactical side of shooting.

Thanks! I understand seeing a police trade in 870 as departments go from pump to semiauto, but I didn't understand why a department would trade in semiautos, unless there was some deficiency that would cause then to want a different semiauto. Now I know what that deficiency is.


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BobM
11-27-2016, 07:59 PM
We had an 1187P for a while. After a trip to the factory and then me properly assembling it , it would run ok with full power slugs or buckshot but nothing else. Even then it seemed a bit finicky. (Example of one I know but from what I've read I wouldn't want one for serious defensive use.)


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Wyoming Shooter
11-28-2016, 09:15 AM
My 11-87 would not run reliably with low-power loads until the gas ports were drilled out to .125".

Suvorov
11-28-2016, 02:42 PM
I'm just some dood and another sample of one but I have had very good luck with my 1187P. Purchased it back in 1997 (identically configured to the ones in HCM's post) and it has gladly eaten everything from the Wal-Mart bargain #7 target loads on up to full power slugs and buckshot. The only thing it does not reliably cycle are the reduced recoil LE loads and some uber ancient paper wadded slugs I was given. I'm not a high volume shotgun shooter (or anything shooter anymore I'm afraid) but the shotgun has been through one class plus enough range and field sessions that it has earned my trust for anything I would need a shotgun for.

I've shot a handful of other semi-auto shotguns as well as the standard array of pump guns and what has me sold with the Remington is that I find it as easy to manage full recoil loads with the 1187 as it is reduced recoil loads with a pump. It is very noticeably more docile than my friends Benelli M2, but heavier as well. Another thing I like about it is that it is easy for me to switch barrels and remove the magazine extension and turn the gun into game or clay gun. I'm far from a cleaning Nazi but it just keeps chugging along. My only concern with the system has been that it uses a silicon gas ring and despite the fact I've had no issues with them, should the zombipolypse come, it could theoretically prove to be a weak point in the system.

The 1187P is hardly state of the art, and it is quite possible I got the 1%er good gun, but I'm quite happy with the system.

stinx
12-01-2016, 07:15 PM
My agency and my experience with shotguns was as follows: HK/Benelli M-121, Beretta 1201 FP then Benelli M-2 with a small number of M-4's. My preference is the M4, But I did just by a basically unfired Beretta 1201FP for my place up north. We did utilize 870 pumps as dedicated less lethal platforms. Any of these shotguns would work A-ok as a primary arm as long
as the operator knew how to use them. YMMV

Montesf1030
12-01-2016, 10:12 PM
Any good recommendations for a Semi-auto shotgun but in 20 gauge?


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rob_s
12-02-2016, 09:30 AM
Does the answer change if we change "state of the art" to "ubiquitous/common/proven"?

Does the answer change from competition to people-shooting? Not from a "yes because competition is dumb and has lesser consequences and we are willing to sacrifice reliability and longevity for [game]" but from a more practical standpoint.

Wayne Dobbs
12-02-2016, 10:24 AM
Any good recommendations for a Semi-auto shotgun but in 20 gauge?


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What purpose(s)?

BillSWPA
12-02-2016, 10:47 AM
What purpose(s)?

Although I am not the one asking the initial question, I would be interested in any answers from the standpoint of home defense with recoil shy family members.


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Dagga Boy
12-02-2016, 10:52 AM
My agency and my experience with shotguns was as follows: HK/Benelli M-121, Beretta 1201 FP then Benelli M-2 with a small number of M-4's. My preference is the M4, But I did just by a basically unfired Beretta 1201FP for my place up north. We did utilize 870 pumps as dedicated less lethal platforms. Any of these shotguns would work A-ok as a primary arm as long
as the operator knew how to use them. YMMV

Ah....The Benelli M121. I miss mine. First semi auto I owned. Sold it for an SKB Tactical that was a really cool gun.

coldcase1984
12-02-2016, 01:02 PM
Still have my first patrol shotgun; it remains viable thanks to new recoil buffer. We had to provide our own SGs back in early '90s. My friend had a single-shot H&R! I was into gun-shaming early

If anybody wants to Time Travel, pm an offer.:cool:

12065

John Hearne
12-02-2016, 02:20 PM
Any good recommendations for a Semi-auto shotgun but in 20 gauge?

Not a cheap one but a pretty turn key option: http://www.rivendellsales.com/Shotgun.html

Montesf1030
12-02-2016, 02:35 PM
Looking mostly for HD ...


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txdpd
12-02-2016, 02:39 PM
Although I am not the one asking the initial question, I would be interested in any answers from the standpoint of home defense with recoil shy family members.


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Unless the weight of the shotgun is an issue, the 12 gauge LE 8 pellet reduced recoil 00 loads have about the same recoil as 20 gauge buckshot loads, but offer better terminal performance.

*if your shotgun can cycle them.

TCinVA
12-02-2016, 03:53 PM
Any good recommendations for a Semi-auto shotgun but in 20 gauge?


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If you mean for that shotgun to be used for personal defense, you really gain nothing by using a 20 gauge. To get the same performance you want from a shotgun for anti-bad guy work you have to use loads that are at the upper end of the 20 gauge power spectrum and the package ends up offering more recoil than some of the good reduced recoil 12 gauge loads that perform very well against bad men and function in some of the more forgiving semi-auto 12 gauge shotguns.


Unless the weight of the shotgun is an issue, the 12 gauge LE 8 pellet reduced recoil 00 loads have about the same recoil as 20 gauge buckshot loads, but offer better terminal performance.

*if your shotgun can cycle them.

This. Recoil from the Federal Flite-Control 8 pellet 00 load is extremely mild, and my 1301 cycles those shells reliably. As does every other 1301 I've heard of.

ranger
12-02-2016, 04:39 PM
Any good recommendations for a Semi-auto shotgun but in 20 gauge?


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Mossberg SA20 "Tactical" 20 inch. Made in Turkey. Does not get shot a lot so I cannot comment on long term durability, etc. but frankly that is not its purpose. Situation - I travel a lot and we live in kind of a rural suburb. We have coyotes in the area plus a large copperhead tried to bite wife's favorite dog (missed) and wife holds a grudge. The Mossberg SA20 is the snake and coyote plus 2 legged critter tool. Lives in the basement loaded with 20 gauge buckshot but first round is a heavy birdshot for snakes.

I was big in clay pigeon sports so I have multiple shotguns. I realize that Rem 1100s are old school but I have seen 1100s as high volume clays guns when maintained properly. I have a Rem 1100 Tactical 12 gauge that serves as a HD but I have a lot of experience running 1100s. I am trying now a Stoeger 3000 24 inch due to lots of positive press from 3 gun community - sort of a poor man's Benelli.

Drang
12-02-2016, 09:14 PM
Mossberg SA20 "Tactical" 20 inch. Made in Turkey. Does not get shot a lot so I cannot comment on long term durability, etc. but frankly that is not its purpose. Situation - I travel a lot and we live in kind of a rural suburb. We have coyotes in the area plus a large copperhead tried to bite wife's favorite dog (missed) and wife holds a grudge. The Mossberg SA20 is the snake and coyote plus 2 legged critter tool. Lives in the basement loaded with 20 gauge buckshot but first round is a heavy birdshot for snakes.
I was about to ask if anyone had experience with these. Thinking the Tactical version with the Youth buttstock would work well for HH6. If it works well at all...

M2CattleCo
12-02-2016, 10:47 PM
Unless the weight of the shotgun is an issue, the 12 gauge LE 8 pellet reduced recoil 00 loads have about the same recoil as 20 gauge buckshot loads, but offer better terminal performance.

*if your shotgun can cycle them.

I've been using this load since '09 and have been very impressed with it .
36from an 18.5" Mossberg 500.

I dispatched a Pit Bull with one round of that yesterday and it was super DRT.

rob_s
12-04-2016, 10:18 PM
I really wanted an M2 with a clean receiver to run a red dot on. Bought one and got the Mesa Tactical mount that combines a side saddle and rail. The M2 arrived and had no holes drilled. Turns out it is only with the Tactical Model. I did not want the tall irons. I sold the gun and have been debating the M4. My M4 money keeps getting spent on high end revolvers. If I was still a working cop, the M4 would be a priority. For a home defense gun, what I have is fine.

Isn't the tactical available with rifle sights?

Dagga Boy
12-06-2016, 09:24 PM
Isn't the tactical available with rifle sights?

All the ones I saw had ghost rings instead of the barrel mounted low rifle sights. Basically, what I originally found was if the receiver was drilled for a rail, it had ghost rings. If that has changed, I would be all over it.

HCM
12-07-2016, 12:51 AM
All the ones I saw had ghost rings instead of the barrel mounted low rifle sights. Basically, what I originally found was if the receiver was drilled for a rail, it had ghost rings. If that has changed, I would be all over it.

How much of an issue is it to get a Benelli receiver drilled and tapped ?

rob_s
12-07-2016, 05:47 AM
All the ones I saw had ghost rings instead of the barrel mounted low rifle sights. Basically, what I originally found was if the receiver was drilled for a rail, it had ghost rings. If that has changed, I would be all over it.

In doing more googling it appears that the model I'd want (http://www.eurooptic.com/benelli-m2-tactical-black-synthetic-comfortech-tactical-rifle-sight-185.aspx) (cofortech, rifle sights) has been discontinued. Maybe that's the issue. Or, perhaps there's some weirdness where they don't want to be bothered drilling and tapping the receiver unless they have to for the ghost-rings, and once they are already doing it for the ghosts they do it for the rail.

ETA:
I suppose it might be possible to buy the ghost ring version and swap out the barrel, and sell the sights and barrel. Probably only worth it if starting with a used gun.

NH Shooter
12-10-2016, 09:32 AM
Not "state of the art" by any stretch, but I've got this shortened (from both ends) 1187 Premier running like a champ with Federal LE loads. I've named her Betty (the only firearm I have ever named) and she's an elegant gal that no adversary wants to screw with. She was a fun project to work on and has earned her spot as a dependable, socially adroit HD shotgun!

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-1.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-2.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-12.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-15.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-20.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187shells-1.jpg

NH Shooter
12-10-2016, 09:33 AM
Deleted...double tap.

SWAT Lt.
12-10-2016, 10:24 AM
I'm just some dood and another sample of one but I have had very good luck with my 1187P. Purchased it back in 1997 (identically configured to the ones in HCM's post) and it has gladly eaten everything from the Wal-Mart bargain #7 target loads on up to full power slugs and buckshot. The only thing it does not reliably cycle are the reduced recoil LE loads and some uber ancient paper wadded slugs I was given. I'm not a high volume shotgun shooter (or anything shooter anymore I'm afraid) but the shotgun has been through one class plus enough range and field sessions that it has earned my trust for anything I would need a shotgun for.

I've shot a handful of other semi-auto shotguns as well as the standard array of pump guns and what has me sold with the Remington is that I find it as easy to manage full recoil loads with the 1187 as it is reduced recoil loads with a pump. It is very noticeably more docile than my friends Benelli M2, but heavier as well. Another thing I like about it is that it is easy for me to switch barrels and remove the magazine extension and turn the gun into game or clay gun. I'm far from a cleaning Nazi but it just keeps chugging along. My only concern with the system has been that it uses a silicon gas ring and despite the fact I've had no issues with them, should the zombipolypse come, it could theoretically prove to be a weak point in the system.

The 1187P is hardly state of the art, and it is quite possible I got the 1%er good gun, but I'm quite happy with the system.

Me too. I have one like yours, made during the same time frame and am happy with it. I replaced the rifle sights with Ameriglo night sights and added a side saddle and light. It runs every type of full power and reduced recoil buckshot & slugs I have put in it, as well as all but the lightest target loads (which is okay with me). Again, sample size of one (and low volume use at that) but it is fine for what I want it for. Although I have had no issues, I concur about the silicon gas ring and have extras standing by just in case.

SeriousStudent
12-10-2016, 01:37 PM
...snip....

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-20.jpg



Can you tell us a bit more about your light setup?

Thank you very much.

NH Shooter
12-10-2016, 03:47 PM
Can you tell us a bit more about your light setup?

Be happy to!

The light is a 3P clone I put together last year, intended to be used for EDC. Though I really like the light, it just didn't fit my hand or pocket as well as the "super Quark" I continue to use (QT2L-X turbo head/780 lumens on a AA body using an IMR 14500 battery).

The 3P clone is made of a SF Z44 (6P) bezel with a Malkoff M61N (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/products/m61n-to-fit-surefire-and-malkoff) drop in, a SF Z59 tail cap and an Oveready 3P delrin body (discontinued) housing an IMR 18350 battery. The mount is a L&M.


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-21.jpg

NH Shooter
12-10-2016, 03:59 PM
Me too. I have one like yours, made during the same time frame and am happy with it.

Mine is newer and other than needing some significant windage adjustment on the rear sight, runs fine on Federal LE loads. I replaced the magazine spring with a Wolff, the thin plastic OEM follower with a GG&G stainless steel unit, installed a green FO front sight, a GG&G bolt handle, a CDM Gear BMT mount and a Speedfeed youth stock that I installed a QD socket in.

Yes, I have two 1187s. ;-/

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187p-1.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187p-2.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187p-3.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187p-4.jpg

stinx
12-10-2016, 05:13 PM
Ah....The Benelli M121. I miss mine. First semi auto I owned. Sold it for an SKB Tactical that was a really cool gun.

In 1995 we still had the M121's on the road. I attended a HK armorers class and brought one. The instructor told me he had no idea how to work on one, and that it was the only one he had ever seen still being used in Police Service.

That Guy
12-10-2016, 05:56 PM
installed a green FO front sight

Who made the front sight?

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

HCM
12-10-2016, 05:57 PM
Who made the front sight?

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

Not NH shooter but it looks like a Hi-Viz brand.

NH Shooter
12-10-2016, 06:11 PM
Not NH shooter but it looks like a Hi-Viz brand.

Correct!

1187P - http://www.hivizsights.com/product/dovm-series/

1187 vent rib - http://www.hivizsights.com/product/pm1002/

That Guy
12-10-2016, 06:27 PM
Thank you very much! you have no idea how much this helps. :)

SeriousStudent
12-10-2016, 07:07 PM
NH Shooter - thank you very much for the information and the links, I appreciate it. I have an SBR that would work well with that setup.

NH Shooter
12-10-2016, 07:56 PM
NH Shooter - thank you very much for the information and the links, I appreciate it. I have an SBR that would work well with that setup.

YAW

The Oveready body was bored to accept 18mm cells. Finding 3P bodies is tough enough let alone bored to take larger cells. Oveready no longer offers the body I used but this one looks pretty good;

http://www.cryosillumination.com/aluminum-carbon-fiber-alcf-3p-6p-body/

The 18350 cell, Malkoff drop-in, Surefire bezel and tail cap are all easy to find.

Here is a review of the Malkoff MD2 flashlight with a M61 drop-in (includes beam shots and run time graph) - http://flashlightguide.com/2013/11/review-malkoff-md2-flashlight/

Be aware that with the shorter 3P body and 18350 (800 mha) cell, you will only get about 15 -20 minutes of full output run time before the light starts to gradually taper off to 50% output at around 45 minutes. Longer run times will require the full length 6P body. Even an unbored 6P body can accept a 16650 (2500 mah) cell for 3X the run time with that particular drop-in.

In my case, the run time with the 18350 cell is adequate for the shotgun's intended HD use.

P.E. Kelley
10-19-2022, 05:42 PM
I know this is an old thread...but this IS state of the art!


https://youtu.be/B3ffEZW5Hm4

Oldherkpilot
10-20-2022, 06:08 AM
Jealous. Last night I dreamed I was eatin by a bear. 3rd time this year, not sure what this means.

Maybe that you identify as Bear Chow?😁

P.E. Kelley
10-20-2022, 09:05 AM
Granted the guy doing this is a horse!


https://youtu.be/FH9QDkptq9c

Bolt_Overide
10-22-2022, 05:45 AM
Been looking at these AR10 sized shotguns a lot lately, the genesis looks nice, but theres a lot out there for half the price. XTR-12 appears the be pretty good from what I've been able to find. Is that genesis really worth 2k?

P.E. Kelley
10-22-2022, 12:36 PM
Been looking at these AR10 sized shotguns a lot lately, the genesis looks nice, but theres a lot out there for half the price. XTR-12 appears the be pretty good from what I've been able to find. Is that genesis really worth 2k?

It is fully made in the USA. (Idaho)
It runs and runs (and runs!)
It is not a gas gun (runs clean)
It is not particular with ammo (1oz @ 1150 on up to 3” mags)
It is a REAL large frame AR lower.
It can be had in several barrel lengths

If you can find the time to watch my 20 minute
video on my YouTube you see I came to this gun from
where you are. Turk for cheap and hope it runs?
Or go with 4-5k Dissident Arms?

Ask questions if ya got them
Best
Patrick

Bolt_Overide
10-22-2022, 04:05 PM
Its peaking my interest more, but damn thats SCAR money for something thats really just a toy for me

Caballoflaco
10-22-2022, 04:36 PM
Its peaking my interest more, but damn thats SCAR money for something thats really just a toy for me

If you’ll go check prices on SCAR 17 or 16 you’ll find that $2,000 is about $1,000-1,500 bucks cheaper than what you can buy a SCAR for these days.

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=FN%20SCAR%2017&PageSize=24&Sort=4&View=1&PageIndex=1

Bolt_Overide
10-22-2022, 04:39 PM
If you’ll go check prices on SCAR 17 or 16 you’ll find that $2,000 is about $1,000-1,500 bucks cheaper than what you can buy a SCAR for these days.

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=FN%20SCAR%2017&PageSize=24&Sort=4&View=1&PageIndex=1

The 2k statement was in error, thats just for the upper. Its a lot closer to 3 for the full gun.

P.E. Kelley
10-22-2022, 08:54 PM
Its peaking my interest more, but damn thats SCAR money for something thats really just a toy for me

I sold off a SCAR that I won at the Trijicon World Champs 2014 and picked up my 3rd Gen12.

It is THAT fun a gun. 3G. HD, Hunt and Clays.

KneeShot
10-22-2022, 09:27 PM
It is fully made in the USA. (Idaho)
It runs and runs (and runs!)
It is not a gas gun (runs clean)
It is not particular with ammo (1oz @ 1150 on up to 3” mags)
It is a REAL large frame AR lower.
It can be had in several barrel lengths

If you can find the time to watch my 20 minute
video on my YouTube you see I came to this gun from
where you are. Turk for cheap and hope it runs?
Or go with 4-5k Dissident Arms?

Ask questions if ya got them
Best
Patrick

Does it reliably cycle Brennekke Black Magic Magnum’s and/or Brennekke K.O.’s?
Curious for both barrel length’s 10.5 and/or 18”?

P.E. Kelley
10-22-2022, 09:42 PM
Does it reliably cycle Brennekke Black Magic Magnum’s and/or Brennekke K.O.’s?
Curious for both barrel length’s 10.5 and/or 18”?

I only have 18" and my own home brew longer barrel versions.
No issues with slugs from Fiocchi Aero 1oz 1150's to Fiocchi 1560's and PMC (Brenneke type) at 1600.
Along with Win Ranger, Rem LR slugger, Fed Truball 1300 and 1600

Navin Johnson
10-22-2022, 10:28 PM
I sold off a SCAR that I won at the Trijicon World Champs 2014 and picked up my 3rd Gen12.

It is THAT fun a gun. 3G. HD, Hunt and Clays.

Reneguage is what now?

P.E. Kelley
10-23-2022, 11:17 AM
Reneguage is what now?

I don't know other than its gas system is very cool and it is fast cycling.

I no longer have a professional relationship with Savage other than an occasional
back-and-forth with engineering on this-or that.

Honestly, I don't know how tube mag guns can hold on with box mags finally getting this (Gen12) good.

gato naranja
10-26-2022, 08:45 AM
Honestly, I don't know how tube mag guns can hold on with box mags finally getting this (Gen12) good.

I do not believe that I will live long enough to see an affordable, reliable semi-automatic shotgun that doesn't eventually create a chronic case of buyer's remorse, but that thing does look like fun.