Speer G2 45 ACP Testing Data

[John Hearne]

Does anybody have any? Part number is 54256.

[Flintsky]

People still use .45acp?

[John Hearne]

People still use .45acp?

Yes, as we slip into our dotage, some of us still carry a 45.....

[lyodbraun]

I just picked up a box of this but in 9mm the first batch I had wouldn't expand in clear gel, hope they got this sorted out now ? I kinda miss my old .45 but love the capacity of the nine...

[El Cid]

Just googled it. Interesting that the 45 is a +P in 230gr. Aren't most 45 +P loads usually in 185?

[MVS]

Just googled it. Interesting that the 45 is a +P in 230gr. Aren't most 45 +P loads usually in 185?

Don't know about most, but I have a box of Critical Duty 230+P sitting in front of me.

[John Hearne]

One of the issues with developing 45 loads with increased performance is how slow the standard pressure loads run. By running +P, you can increase performance and make expansion more reliable. Both Winchester and Federal make highly respected 230 grain +P loads. I've shot hogs with the +P Winchester and they were suitably impressed.

And the word I got off-line was to hold off on the G2 for the time being.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Amen on the Federal 230 HST +P. I've killed several Texas deer with the load and they were all one shot kills with most dying on the spot. Impressive wound channel from beginning to end.

[GJM]

People still use .45acp?

Beat me to it, I thought all the calibers were 9, .40 USPSA loads, and .45 Super.

[Poconnor]

But my Dept is dumping the 230 gr hst +p for 9mm because it's better!��

[Flintsky]

But my Dept is dumping the 230 gr hst +p for 9mm because it's better!��


The real question is what platforms they are launching from? There are a number of .45acp platforms I just do not like, and am forced to run them slow and concentrate hard to maintain decent accuracy. There are only a select few .45acps out there that I can shoot as well as a 9mm........usually they are single stacked steel frame models.

Yeah .45acp makes bigger holes, but for department general issue I think it is a bad choice when you have to equip a wide variety of hand sizes, body sizes/weights, physical strength, and natural skill levels.

[JSGlock34]

I'm just enjoying shooting my Wilson 1911 so I've been loading up .45 ACP where I can find good deals. But I think the sunsetting of the 1911 by both FBI and MARSOC while both organizations transition to a Glock 19 variant reflects the overall national trend towards 9mm.

[El Cid]

For anyone who wants to test function and POI, it appears the 45 stuff was also recalled and is being sold as training ammo (like Keisler's did with the 9mm). Lucky Gunner has them for sale at 43 cents a round in lots of 600.

http://www.luckygunner.com/45-acp-p-230-gr-jhp-g2-speer-gold-dot-training-only-600-rounds

[UGA DAD]

I'm brand new to this forum and quite admittedly joined in order to reply to this thread. I just purchased a box (50 round box) of the G2 45 ACP +p 230 grain stuff. I, too, was looking for some test data on this ammo. My interest is not in using this ammo for personal defense, primarily. *I tend to carry my Glock M-41 while deer hunting on private property where I'm just as likely to encounter Coyotes and Bobcats as deer. *Likewise, I want a 45 ACP round that would penetrate to the vitals of a buck if called upon to do it. While I have numerous handgun deer kills with 44 Magnum and 454 Casull, a suitable opportunity hasn't presented itself for the Glock.*




I don't pretend to be a Gold Dot G2 expert nor offer support for these rounds, however I don't think they are currently under recall or have been labeled as "training only". The Police Distributor in Georgia where I purchased this ammo have G2 rounds in 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP in stock with no warning labels applied. *Additionally, I was under the impression that the 9mm 147 grn G2 was the heir apparent new FBI round to go with their 5th Generation Glocks. I'll shut up now.*

[El Cid]

I'm brand new to this forum and quite admittedly joined in order to reply to this thread. I just purchased a box (50 round box) of the G2 45 ACP +p 230 grain stuff. I, too, was looking for some test data on this ammo. My interest is not in using this ammo for personal defense, primarily. *I tend to carry my Glock M-41 while deer hunting on private property where I'm just as likely to encounter Coyotes and Bobcats as deer. *Likewise, I want a 45 ACP round that would penetrate to the vitals of a buck if called upon to do it. While I have numerous handgun deer kills with 44 Magnum and 454 Casull, a suitable opportunity hasn't presented itself for the Glock.*




I don't pretend to be a Gold Dot G2 expert nor offer support for these rounds, however I don't think they are currently under recall or have been labeled as "training only". The Police Distributor in Georgia where I purchased this ammo have G2 rounds in 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP in stock with no warning labels applied. *Additionally, I was under the impression that the 9mm 147 grn G2 was the heir apparent new FBI round to go with their 5th Generation Glocks. I'll shut up now.*

They are using the 9mm 147gr G2 and have been for some time. Their initial batches were recalled and I presume the 45 in the link I posted was also early production stuff (you can clearly read "training only" in the photo).

I imagine Speer has pushed the 40 and 45 out after fixing the problem. The 9mm the recalled G2 has a silver/nickel colored primer. The new "good" stuff has a good colored primer. I haven't seen the 40/45 stuff in person but there's a good chance they followed the same protocol.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I'm brand new to this forum and quite admittedly joined in order to reply to this thread. I just purchased a box (50 round box) of the G2 45 ACP +p 230 grain stuff. I, too, was looking for some test data on this ammo. My interest is not in using this ammo for personal defense, primarily. *I tend to carry my Glock M-41 while deer hunting on private property where I'm just as likely to encounter Coyotes and Bobcats as deer. *Likewise, I want a 45 ACP round that would penetrate to the vitals of a buck if called upon to do it. While I have numerous handgun deer kills with 44 Magnum and 454 Casull, a suitable opportunity hasn't presented itself for the Glock.*

I've killed quite a few deer with .45 ACP launched from a 4" S&W 625 Mountain Gun. It works very well. Let us know how that G2 works on deer if you get a shot.

[El Cid]

Snagged some of the recalled 45 G2. Primers are gold colored so I'm wondering if they changed to nickel on the new production stuff. Otherwise with loose ammo it would be impossible to tell them apart.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9468_zpsnckrf9xi.jpg

[UGA DAD]

El CId, I want to apologize if my original post sounded like I was disputing your word about the G2 Gold Dot. That absolutely was not my intention. I simply wanted to offer an update on the rounds. I too have seen a lot of Speer products in the past that were labeled as training only when they appeared to be un-blemished. Kinda makes you wonder why they would produce gazillions of them before they were adequately tested. Marketing ploy I imagine.

For ballistic test data I rely on a friend of mine that devours that kind of thing then regurgitates it for my consumption. While he had not yet been privy to any G2+p 45 ACP round data, he was not entirely complimentary of the 9mm G2 stuff, citing that the Federal HST tested much better and is much cheaper per box than the G2 (the "cheaper" thing was my expert evaluation).

[DocGKR]

Many times new loads work very well during initial small batch production, but develop issues when mass produced resulting in the need to tweak the design or manufacturing technique. For example, the initial production run of HST had issues, as did the first runs of the original Gold Dots and now both of these loads are among the best available. Patience and persistence are both virtues...

[El Cid]

El CId, I want to apologize if my original post sounded like I was disputing your word about the G2 Gold Dot. That absolutely was not my intention. I simply wanted to offer an update on the rounds. I too have seen a lot of Speer products in the past that were labeled as training only when they appeared to be un-blemished. Kinda makes you wonder why they would produce gazillions of them before they were adequately tested. Marketing ploy I imagine.

For ballistic test data I rely on a friend of mine that devours that kind of thing then regurgitates it for my consumption. While he had not yet been privy to any G2+p 45 ACP round data, he was not entirely complimentary of the 9mm G2 stuff, citing that the Federal HST tested much better and is much cheaper per box than the G2 (the "cheaper" thing was my expert evaluation).

No worries. I didn't take it that way. My job affords me access to people with information about things that sometimes I can share and sometimes not. The G2 ammo marked "training only" won't have any visible blemishes. The 9mm (and I presume the 45ACP I bought) were recalled because they were failing to expand in actual shootings. This is why so many of the "internet scientists" came out against it as well. Speer addressed the issues and the new ammo has been on the street for some time. I seriously doubt it was a marketing ploy as it did damage their reputation in LE and non-LE circles.

I don't know where the HST tested "much better", but I do know the 9mm G2 testing was fantastic beyond all expectations. But then, this is why I try to only pay attention to people like the feebs and Doc GKR when it comes to ammo testing. As far as cheaper, I still haven't seen vendors selling Gold Dot G2 for private citizens, but I haven't looked that hard either. I buy mostly from SGAmmo and check their site periodically but have yet to see it. I think Kiesler's was selling to individual LEO's, but even the Speer web page doesn't list G2.

As impressed as I am, and others even closer to the event horizon are with GD G2... I lose no sleep carrying other quality ammo such as the traditional GD, Winchester bonded Ranger, and the Barnes X bullet loadings.

Can you do me a favor and look at the primer on your box of new 45ACP GD G2? Speer changed the primer color of the 9mm to make it easy to tell the recalled ammo from the good. Wondering if they did so with the 45 also. Thanks!

[Tokarev]

I bought some of the recalled 9mm 147 stuff at a recent gunshow. Chrono'ed velocities run about 960fps.

We shot one from ten feet into a bare block of gel from Clear Ballistics. Penetration was right at 16" and the bullet sort of expanded. I saw "sort of" because it more peeled than expanded.

Next up we shot through four layers of heavy clothing. The first bullet was a complete pass through. We tried another round just to confirm. Also a complete pass through.

I haven't done a ton of research (Internet reading) on the G2 but I thought all these were supposed to have a polymer insert? No such insert on these particular 147's.

[Tokarev]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/fe1bf6145adac197edd2fcc87056f1f0.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/d6b56f24050eb69441ffbb4045f3b0e2.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/a6a557b4d13ac0daebe9fce3f9477311.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/60d1919474c126a41b18587ccedcd3fa.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/6abc0ff4298127d8f05f0255c2586fc9.jpg

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[El Cid]

I bought some of the recalled 9mm 147 stuff at a recent gunshow. Chrono'ed velocities run about 960fps.

We shot one from ten feet into a bare block of gel from Clear Ballistics. Penetration was right at 16" and the bullet sort of expanded. I saw "sort of" because it more peeled than expanded.

Next up we shot through four layers of heavy clothing. The first bullet was a complete pass through. We tried another round just to confirm. Also a complete pass through.

I haven't done a ton of research (Internet reading) on the G2 but I thought all these were supposed to have a polymer insert? No such insert on these particular 147's.

That is odd the gel insert is missing from all of them. I'd guess they were removed by someone before you bought them, but no way to know for sure. Were these from the cases Kiesler's was selling? I bought some from them, but every round I have seen/shot both from the recalled group and the new stuff has the gel cap.

The recalled G2's wouldn't be expected to properly expand. The cuts made in the jackets were not being made properly. The tool that makes them at Speer was dull and was merely pressing into the jacket rather than making cuts at whatever depth the bullet needs. The recalled 9mm had silver colored primers like in your photos. The new ones have a gold colored primer.

Thanks for sharing the pics.

[Tokarev]

I bought some 45 as well. These all have the gel in cavity. I'm curious to see what these will do- or not do-and will try them ASAP. Will have to remold my gel so it'll be Tuesday or Wednesday I suppose before I get it done.



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[Tokarev]

PS there doesn’t appear to have ever been a gel insert. If there was it was removed without a trace.

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[El Cid]

Shot the 45 G2 +P today back to back with regular GD's. Gun was a Gen 4 G21. At 10 yards the POI was a few inches higher. There was really not much difference in feel or recoil impulse. Next time I'll use a steel frame pistol as well as a Smith 625 to try it out.

[Tokarev]

Okay so here are a few bullets that were fired into 10% gel from Clear Ballistics. We tried one without clothing and also fired some through four layers of clothing to simulate the FBI protocol. We also fired two rounds through four layers of denim per IWBA.

Velocities are pretty standard for a 5in barrel (Ruger SR1911) and a 230gr bullet. These were clocking 875fps or thereabouts.

Here are two bullets through denim and one bullet through clothing that failed to expand. All three bullets punched through about 24in of gel.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161214/b86f1fcafe64bdbe7268ba38c3e0e7f3.jpg

Here's the one from bare gel. Penetration was just under 16in.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161214/e901613690130009207c28b925a35855.jpg

And the last photos are bullets that partially expanded after clothing. These all made it out of the first block and into the second for 17in or so of penetration. Interestingly all of these had four petals peel back while two petals remained unbent.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161214/71709e55df7948cfa3a71c072ee7594f.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Here's what these cartridges look like:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161215/b3ec62201596d7636cc291d7d81f792f.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161215/c927ddce343c3f9b63f3559abe3088fb.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161215/17c66fea25e6255b3e6152eb6efa65bd.jpg

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[Mitchell, Esq.]

Not ready for prime time, are they?

However, once they get sorted out that's gonna be good stuff.

[JAD]

Not ready for prime time, are they?

However, once they get sorted out that's gonna be good stuff.

.45 Auto shooters are already pretty spoiled for choice.

[Tokarev]

Keep in mind these are the "training use" version. I'm guessing the real thing works more reliably.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161215/fbe364a38cc20e672b348517be7be6e1.jpg

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[DocGKR]

Why spend the time and energy to test a known defective load?

[Tokarev]

Why spend the time and energy to test a known defective load?
Just for fun.

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[Tokarev]

When I can find a box of the new version 45 and/or 9 locally I'll pick one up.

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[11B10]

Yes, as we slip into our dotage, some of us still carry a 45.....



Tell him, Mr. Hearne!

[11B10]

Beat me to it, I thought all the calibers were 9, .40 USPSA loads, and .45 Super.



Man, you're killing me!

[Rex G]

People still use .45acp?

Yes, because .40 hurts my aging, aching right wrist. The quick fix was to revert to an all-steel 5" 1911 for personal-time carry; I had to keep carrying .40 on duty for another four years. (A 1911 has a lower bore axis than a P229, and that, plus the greater weight, means less recoil impulse, all else being equal.)

I will, however, be avoiding .45 ACP +P.

[Tokarev]

Yes, because .40 hurts my aging, aching right wrist. The quick fix was to revert to an all-steel 5" 1911 for personal-time carry; I had to keep carrying .40 on duty for another four years. (A 1911 has a lower bore axis than a P229, and that, plus the greater weight, means less recoil impulse, all else being equal.)

I will, however, be avoiding .45 ACP +P.
Somewhat off topic but have you used a 1911 chambered in 40S&W? I have one that I used for USPSA Single Stack. It has been perfectly reliable without loading long and using a variety of magazines. Recoil is easy to manage and you gain an additional round over 45ACP. And it still allows you to carry a pistol caliber that starts with a 4.

38 Super would also be a good choice if ammo makers showed it some support.

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[John Hearne]

Somewhat off topic but have you used a 1911 chambered in 40S&W?

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder732/400x/60996732.jpg

[Chuck Haggard]

Many times new loads work very well during initial small batch production, but develop issues when mass produced resulting in the need to tweak the design or manufacturing technique. For example, the initial production run of HST had issues, as did the first runs of the original Gold Dots and now both of these loads are among the best available. Patience and persistence are both virtues...

^This^

Initially the 124gr +P Gold Dot we issued was barely expanding and driving way down range after passing through bad guys. We talked to Speer about what we were seeing, they jumped on the redesign, what they did back then, maybe 20+ years ago, fixed the issue and what we see since then is as perfect performance as you can expect from a service caliber pistol bullet.