Captains of Crush Grippers: What's your grip strength?

[GRV]

What is the largest CoC gripper you can completely close, unassisted with each hand?

Success means starting with the gripper in the single hand completely open and closing it only with the strength of that hand until the metal grips contact each other. Success needs to achieved with both the left and right hands individually to count. So, say you can close a #2 with your right hand for 1 rep but only a #1 for 10 reps with your left hand; then you'd vote for #1. Feel free to post more specific details.


I've at times been preoccupied with my grip strength, or lack thereof, and how it is or isn't affecting my recoil control and other fitness goals. My local gym just put out some CoC grippers so I had a chance to play with them today. I was able to close the Sport ("S") for multiple reps with either hand, however, I was not able to close the Trainer ("T") for even one rep with either hand, even after ample rest.

I'm curious what the average max crush grip strength is among proficient shooters. Of course, there may be more important metrics (weight held closed for certain duration of time, or while moving trigger finger freely, or some other testing equipment), but this is the first objective metric I've ever had access to.

Any thoughts on this subject are welcome and appreciated.

[JHC]

Trainer. Have a hand me down #1 from my son I haven't closed yet. Lol

[scw2]

This video might be of interest


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8_w3fxnZss



I also made sure to do preventative exercises (https://www.absolutept.com/shooters-elbow/)to help prevent over training.

[BN]

https://www.amazon.com/fit-Starter-Hand-Grips-1-Pair/dp/B00C87JKCW/ref=sr_1_136?s=exercise-and-fitness&ie=UTF8&qid=1479512963&sr=1-136&keywords=Grip+exerciser

These are the ones I got after I injured my shoulder and had to start from scratch. Probably lighter than any of the CoC.

[TCinVA]

I can barely close a #2 with my right hand. Not quite with my left.

[MVS]

Don't know. I have a trainer that I can get 15 reps with, but don't have a heavier one here.

[Mitch]

I do sets of 10 with the trainer. I keep meaning to order a number 1.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peally]

I only own the Sports, and can close them fine, but if I do it about 5 times I'll definitely feel it in my hand and need to take a day off from them.

Yes I am a pussy. I don't know how handy they are for me to increase my shooting potential, but I do use them to preemptively combat any gripping related injuries I may incur. Far more often I use a theraband and rubber bands for my fingers though.

[Paul Sharp]

The #2 is as far as I've gone with grippers. I get a lot of grip work from other stuff I do so I've never really been a gripper maniac.

[GJM]

If these are to shoot better, considering the potential for injury, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

Between dry and live fire, I get plenty of gripping practice.

[GAP]

2.5 .. BJJ and Deadlifts did the most for my grip though.

[Duces Tecum]

The thing that limited my weighted chins is that I kept slipping off the bar (past tense). My grip just gave out. I began grip work with 3 sets of 3 on the COC #1 on 22 August, three times a week on a MWF schedule. By the end of October (about 40 exercise days) I was up to 5 sets of 5 and upgraded on 07 November to a 1.5 gripper. It's now been two weeks (at 5 x 5), and I can close it several times with my right hand and once or twice with my left.

The thing that seems to have made the difference is that I now hold the gripper closed (as much as I can) for a total of one minute (each hand) per exercise period. So in 25 compressions (5 x 5) I just randomly pick 6 with each hand and hold at maximum compression for 10 seconds each time. That's the only thing I'm doing different now than with the COC #1, and I think it's helping.

[SLG]

I can close a 2 with either hand, though it is pretty ugly with the left. I don't work my grip anymore, so whatever I get from my normal work is what I get. I think grip strength is very important for shooting well, but it is a relative thing. My recoil control has never been amazing, and there is obviously much more that goes into that than just grip strength. I do think that grip strength affects lots of other aspects of shooting though, and if you can improve your strength to the point that it is "above average", I think you will see results in your shooting as well. A good workout routine, where you are doing some combination of body weight bar exercises, as well as lifting bars with weight, should give you an above average grip strength all on its own.

ETA: I posted too soon, off of too old info. I just went down stairs and could only close the 2. I injured my hands in a class earlier this year, and I'm sorry to say they haven't quite healed up.

[Mr_White]

Wow you guys with the 2.5s, that is gnarly dudes.

[SLG]

Wow you guys with the 2.5s, that is gnarly dudes.

See above (he said sheepishly).

[Mr_White]

Still gnarly dude

[JHC]

The thing that limited my weighted chins is that I kept slipping off the bar (past tense). My grip just gave out. I began grip work with 3 sets of 3 on the COC #1 on 22 August, three times a week on a MWF schedule. By the end of October (about 40 exercise days) I was up to 5 sets of 5 and upgraded on 07 November to a 1.5 gripper. It's now been two weeks (at 5 x 5), and I can close it several times with my right hand and once or twice with my left.

The thing that seems to have made the difference is that I now hold the gripper closed (as much as I can) for a total of one minute (each hand) per exercise period. So in 25 compressions (5 x 5) I just randomly pick 6 with each hand and hold at maximum compression for 10 seconds each time. That's the only thing I'm doing different now than with the COC #1, and I think it's helping.

That is what throws me. Weighted pullups with 50/60/70 lbs, ok. But can't close the #1.

[P.E. Kelley]

Just working with my hands early on as a recreational wrench turner and piano player seemed to provide me with above average
hand strength. Now that both the above are no longer part of my curriculum, I have had to resort to the CoC's. I only purchased
the 1.5 which I could (and can) hold close at first meeting. However IF I actually work with them, I start to develop elbow pain,
so moderation is key for me.

[TCinVA]

Of perhaps even more relevance than what COC I can close, a while back I realized that I was not applying a significant chunk of my grip strength with either hand. I was essentially gripping the gun with just the circle you can make with the middle finger and thumb on my right hand while the last two fingers just sort of hung out not doing much. Same with the left. I realized it one day when I was half-heartedly dry-firing my Glock 34 and I had a flashback to watching Bob Vogel grip his pistol in the holster.

Craig has mentioned that it took him quite a bit of time lifting under the eye of an exceptionally good coach to really learn how to "fire" significant muscle chains in complex lifts. I'm certainly no expert but I think there's something to that with grip strength, too. People think they are gripping the gun hard but are they really? Maybe I'm the only one overlooking it. Maybe not.

[GJM]

Some folks mention grip strength as relates to recoil control, but I think that is secondary to the benefit of a good grip allowing you to press the trigger faster without disturbing the sights. TGO explains how you can shoot Alphas with a terrible grip -- you just can't press the trigger very fast. Pressing the trigger fast and making good hits requires a strong grip.

[Jay Cunningham]

Some folks mention grip strength as relates to recoil control, but I think that is secondary to the benefit of a good grip allowing you to press the trigger faster without disturbing the sights. TGO explains how you can shoot Alphas with a terrible grip -- you just can't press the trigger very fast. Pressing the trigger fast and making good hits requires a strong grip.

I agree [emoji817]

I'm not a fan of the CoC grippers personally as I've seen people injure themselves. I'm a fan of "farmer carry" exercises with heavy dumbbells.

That's just a quibble.

[Paul Sharp]

The cool thing about strength is the there is a 'raising all ships' type of effect. I have shared with a few people my first time in a dedicated strength gym. Everyone was a strongman, highland games, or powerlifting competitor It's an invite only gym and I was fortunate to be invited. My first night was a bench night. I was thrown in with guys in my weight class and we started benching with them coaching me. They're 3rd or 4th warmup set was my 5 rep max... While they were able to warmup with 135, 225, 315, and 405 on their way up to their work sets, I was trashed and tapping out. Because their absolute strength was so great they were able to cruise through weights that weaker athletes struggle with. This applies to grip strength as well. Guys with great grip strength don't have to work as hard to grip the gun tightly. What was formerly their 100% effort is now only 70% effort because their absolute threshold has been pushed so far. They can get the same or better results with less effort simply because they are stronger.

[CDH]

Grip strength and shooting. If it were only that simple. Things to consider: crushing versus pinching, contraction vs static hold, fast twitch vs slow twitch.

My current position on grip strength and shooting.

I do believe grip strength and grip work play a part in shooting. There is a baseline level of grip strength that will cover shooting. Probably somewhere in the CoC #1-1.5 range. Not a one rep max at this level but this should be a "working set" level, somewhere between 10-20 reps. In other words, this would be your walking around crushing grip strength that can be done at anytime. I also believe that just as much is gained from grippers in the area of "muscle awareness" and/or "muscle recruitment". For me, grippers seem to enhance my awareness of all of my fingers when gripping and this carries over to the handgun. It increases my awareness of proprioceptive feedback and enhances my response, both voluntary and involuntary.

[JHC]

I agree [emoji817]

I'm not a fan of the CoC grippers personally as I've seen people injure themselves. I'm a fan of "farmer carry" exercises with heavy dumbbells.

That's just a quibble.

And fat bar training?

To anyone?

[Jay Cunningham]

I'd like to clarify that I don't have a problem with the CoC grippers but guys seem to get weirdly obsessed with them, which leads to overdoing it.

I think general weight training involving barbells and dumbbells improves overall grip. Pick up heavy stuff and hold onto it!

[John Hearne]

While it stops at 200 lb, Amazon has an inexpensive dynamometer to measure grip strength. They were recently on sale for less than $21 so I picked one up. Karl Rehn has convinced me to look at grip strength when teaching new shooters or diagnosing bad ones. Link: https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Dynamometer-Strength-Measurement-Capturing/dp/B00A8K4L84/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479560394&sr=8-1&keywords=dynamometer

My grip strength is 116 lbs in each hand measured in the "proper" position (humerus parallel with torso, forearm perpendicular to the ground) and 124 when at extension (like I'm shooting.) I was surprised that my strength is pretty much identical in each hand. I have one of the "heavy" Grip Masters which is 11 lb per finger that I use occasionally. I've been deadlifting a lot more in the past 12-18 months.

[BobLoblaw]

I warmup with T and push to failure with #1. Haven't bought a #2 yet. I only work them about once a week after hearing about Mr. White's injury. Back when I first started climbing, I was trying to squeeze everything as hard as I could. It gave me flash pumps and tore up my elbows pretty badly. Not fun. A couple years later when my muscles AND tendons had been seasoned, I realized just how limited I'd been by grip strength because that was my bottleneck. It may or may not make a big difference for you to be able to squeeze the ever living shit out of things for one rep but once you establish really strong tendons, it reduces your chance of injury when pushing yourself and removes one limiter to performance gains. So, even if you don't do it often, don't stop.

ETA: not a doctor

[LSP552]

Some folks mention grip strength as relates to recoil control, but I think that is secondary to the benefit of a good grip allowing you to press the trigger faster without disturbing the sights. TGO explains how you can shoot Alphas with a terrible grip -- you just can't press the trigger very fast. Pressing the trigger fast and making good hits requires a strong grip.

Lots of truth here for me. And it can be gun specific, at least for me. For the same level of performance and consistency, I need to grip a Glock harder than a SIG. I'm not talking about recoil control, but in my ability to manipulate the trigger without disturbing the sights.

And to add.....I wonder how much grip strength is used to compensate for a pistol grip that doesn't really fit the individual?

[blues]

And fat bar training?

To anyone?

My 85 lb olympic shrug bar has over sized handles which are great for grip work. My standard 45 lb olympic shrug bar has, well, standard diameter grips.

BTW, I sold my set of CoC grippers and enjoy using the Ivanko Super Gripper (http://ivanko.com/Ivanko-Super-Gripper-Info.html) in their place.

[John Hearne]

And to add.....I wonder how much grip strength is used to compensate for a pistol grip that doesn't really fit the individual?

A LOT. Seriously, I've been reading old shooting books and they are very adamant that the gun must fit your hand properly. If it doesn't fit get another gun is the standard line. By fit they mean that the interaction of the grip/hand makes it easy to press the trigger straight back.

In a chapter on selecting grips they discuss a right hander shooting to the left. What do they offer as an explanation? Shooting a grip that is too large. Where do Glock shooters tend to throw shots? What is the commonly accepted fix for this - sink more trigger finger which has the effect of pulling the gun back to the right.

I see super amounts of grip strength as a crutch to fix this issue. If you can increase the pressure of the "vise" holding the gun, you can minimize deflection of the gun caused by actuation of the trigger. Is this an effective solution - yes as it fixes the problem but, maybe not having the problem in the first place might be a better solution.

My personal opinion is that we've become so fixated on capacity that we neglect and sacrifice shooting well. I would offer that a lot of folks are shooting guns that are too large for their hand. They would shoot better, and need less ammo, if they actually had a gun that fit their hand.

"Enough" is a relative term. I carried a revolver as a duty gun and BUG for my first seven years. Going to an 8+1 gun was a 50% increase in capacity and the auto reloads much faster than the revolver. Having "just" 9 rounds means a lot less to me by way of perspective than those raised on plastic framed, striker fired guns.

Incidentally, the other factor mentioned in the old books is weight. Heavier guns are seen as superior to lighter guns. A lot of this has to do with additional mass resisting deflection when actuating the trigger. The extra mass also has the effect of reducing felt recoil. I've done some side by side shooting with my alloy frame Sigs versus steel frame Sigs and the difference is very obvious. I'm faster and more accurate with the gun that has an extra 12 oz.

[LSP552]

A LOT. Seriously, I've been reading old shooting books and they are very adamant that the gun must fit your hand properly. If it doesn't fit get another gun is the standard line. By fit they mean that the interaction of the grip/hand makes it easy to press the trigger straight back.

In a chapter on selecting grips they discuss a right hander shooting to the left. What do they offer as an explanation? Shooting a grip that is too large. Where do Glock shooters tend to throw shots? What is the commonly accepted fix for this - sink more trigger finger which has the effect of pulling the gun back to the right.

I see super amounts of grip strength as a crutch to fix this issue. If you can increase the pressure of the "vise" holding the gun, you can minimize deflection of the gun caused by actuation of the trigger. Is this an effective solution - yes as it fixes the problem but, maybe not having the problem in the first place might be a better solution.

My personal opinion is that we've become so fixated on capacity that we neglect and sacrifice shooting well. I would offer that a lot of folks are shooting guns that are too large for their hand. They would shoot better, and need less ammo, if they actually had a gun that fit their hand.

"Enough" is a relative term. I carried a revolver as a duty gun and BUG for my first seven years. Going to an 8+1 gun was a 50% increase in capacity and the auto reloads much faster than the revolver. Having "just" 9 rounds means a lot less to me by way of perspective than those raised on plastic framed, striker fired guns.

Incidentally, the other factor mentioned in the old books is weight. Heavier guns are seen as superior to lighter guns. A lot of this has to do with additional mass resisting deflection when actuating the trigger. The extra mass also has the effect of reducing felt recoil. I've done some side by side shooting with my alloy frame Sigs versus steel frame Sigs and the difference is very obvious. I'm faster and more accurate with the gun that has an extra 12 oz.

Completely agree. Us old guys remember revolver stocks....

I've done my best shooting across the board with revolvers and SIGs. Fit to allow proper trigger manipulation is a key reason for this. I shoot Glocks well, but it requires an adaptation of my technique and grip. There is a P239 under my vest as I type.

I didn't mean to derail the thread. Might be good to split off?

[GRV]

This is extremely interesting. Thanks to everyone chiming in.

I have avoided the CoCs entirely based on the reputation they have for injury. There was a period of time where I was gripping my gun as hard as possible in dryfire/livefire, combined with pullups, that was leaving me waking up with tendon issues like "trigger finger". I had to stop dryfiring for a while for it to heal. Since then, I've been very wary. Actually TC, I probably have you to blame :p After your remarks about gripping with the last two fingers to me at Sean's class....well.....let's just say I guess I overdid it.

I was just about to buy one of those $25 grip dynamometers off amazon when these grippers popped up in the gym. I knew a lot of people here had experience with them, so they seem like a good standard for comparison, even if they are not the best way to build grip strength.



This video might be of interest


I also made sure to do preventative exercises (https://www.absolutept.com/shooters-elbow/)to help prevent over training.

That's actually what motivated this :cool: Just rewatched it before starting the thread. For those who haven't sat through it, Ron says he likes to see 1-5 reps with a #1 with each hand for an adult male. Based on the poll, it looks like we're validating that.



Of perhaps even more relevance than what COC I can close, a while back I realized that I was not applying a significant chunk of my grip strength with either hand. I was essentially gripping the gun with just the circle you can make with the middle finger and thumb on my right hand while the last two fingers just sort of hung out not doing much. Same with the left. I realized it one day when I was half-heartedly dry-firing my Glock 34 and I had a flashback to watching Bob Vogel grip his pistol in the holster.

Craig has mentioned that it took him quite a bit of time lifting under the eye of an exceptionally good coach to really learn how to "fire" significant muscle chains in complex lifts. I'm certainly no expert but I think there's something to that with grip strength, too. People think they are gripping the gun hard but are they really? Maybe I'm the only one overlooking it. Maybe not.

That's encouraging, in a weird sort of way. I've been working 1 hr, 2-3 days a week for the past few months with a strength coach whose day job is training NCAA athletes. I've certainly been making progress, but definitely not as fast as I hoped. I have definitely experienced that feeling of things clicking from just learning to fire the right muscles, rather than strength per se, and I think that's still where I need the most improvement.

The grip concerns are really only fresh in my mind because of my workouts. I tap out on grip on so many things: pullups, farmer's carries, etc. That is, if my grip was stronger, I believe I'd be doing much better on these exercises. Also, I think I'd have more quality reps later in my workouts. The other day we experimented with pullups mid-workout and I was shot on grip for RDLs and everything else. I've been wondering whether or not I'm just imagining that my grip is unusually limiting. I'm starting to think I'm not wrong. The best way to improve is a separate question.

My coach has said that my grip strength has definitely improved since we've started. And I've noticed better sight tracking in my shooting. My main concern is that my 2 year fitness goals are going to look more like 10 years out. But hearing that remark from Craig gives me a little extra faith that it's not just bad genetics insurmountable lifestyle history.

[John Hearne]

That's actually what motivated this :cool: Just rewatched it before starting the thread. For those who haven't sat through it, Ron says he likes to see 1-5 reps with a #1 with each hand for an adult male. Based on the poll, it looks like we're validating that.


IIRC, Karl Rehn seemed to think that he needed just over 100# to reach Grand Master. I get that more is better and if you can gain the grip strength without any negatives then it's worth pursuing. I'm not sure you need over 140# (if you can do five reps of 140, you grip strength is probably at least 150) to shoot well. I suspect that 100# is the point of diminishing returns. Up to 100#, every pound you gain is significant. After 100#, I think the benefit per extra pound starts to drop off. I'm not saying it drops off to nothing but it starts to matter less once you cross the 100# threshold.

As mentioned above, it may depend on gun/hand fit as well. If you're running a bigger pistol than optimal then extra grip strength would be really useful. Also grip style seems to matter. The conventionally accepted "thumbs forward" grip appears to be very dependent on grip strength. Per Karl, the old Gunsite crossed thumbs actually gets better results for those with sub-optimal grip strength.

[blues]

One thing that I think is important to bear in mind is that training the grip can lead to, or exacerbate forearm / elbow issues (epicondylitis etc) unless some time is spent working the extensor muscles (http://www.ironmind-store.com/Expand-Your-Hand-Bands153-10-Bands/productinfo/1376/):

http://www.ironmind-store.com/images/1376-13C_f.jpg

These exercises have helped me tremendously, as well as the occasional use of the BandIT (http://www.proband.com/product/proband-bandit-forearm/) when forearm or elbow support / relief is called for :

http://www.proband.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/proband_bandit.jpg

[Drang]

While it stops at 200 lb, Amazon has an inexpensive dynamometer to measure grip strength. They were recently on sale for less than $21 so I picked one up... Link: https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Dynamometer-Strength-Measurement-Capturing/dp/B00A8K4L84/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479560394&sr=8-1&keywords=dynamometer....
Currently $25.99, down from $45.99.

Interesting. I have no baseline to go from, but I'm curious to track what "Arthur Itis", as my grandmother used to call it, is doing to my paws...

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I have never gone above 175lbs because that's what they happened to have in my old gym. They weren't COC, but some other brand that increased in 25lb increments.

So I put myself down for a 1.5. I think probably at my deadlifting peak I could have done 200lbs...at the time I was DLing a little over 400 so it seems reasonable. But I never had one around to try.

I did develop a bit of tennis elbow which believe can be a side effect of overworking, or poorly working, your grip. So I've dovetailed that injury with my general preference for laziness and heavy drinking and I'm in a resting phase now.

[Talionis]

I see super amounts of grip strength as a crutch to fix this issue. If you can increase the pressure of the "vise" holding the gun, you can minimize deflection of the gun caused by actuation of the trigger. Is this an effective solution - yes as it fixes the problem but, maybe not having the problem in the first place might be a better solution.

My personal opinion is that we've become so fixated on capacity that we neglect and sacrifice shooting well. I would offer that a lot of folks are shooting guns that are too large for their hand. They would shoot better, and need less ammo, if they actually had a gun that fit their hand.


I offer this question as a counterpoint: Would you rather have the hand strength combined with correct technique that would allow you to shoot lights out with even poorly fit handguns, or would you prefer to base your shooting technique on guns that are perfectly fit to your hand? Personally, I enjoy being able to pick up everything from J-frames through 1911's and Glocks up to 2011's and be able to work the trigger rapidly on each for accurate hits using the "crutch" of a vice-like grip.

For reference, before I stopped working with them, I could just barely close #2's with both hands.

[Trajan]

I was using CoCs, but they started to hurt my hand. Then I damaged a tendon in my right index finger (forcing me to be left handed) from BJJ, and stopped using them. I noticed that even when shooting fast, I'm not really gripping the gun anywhere close to even a trainer. Most of my recoil control comes from my left hand held up high in a Vogel-ish fashion.

I train grip strength now solely from picking up heavy weights.

[John Hearne]

Would you rather have the hand strength combined with correct technique that would allow you to shoot lights out with even poorly fit handguns, or would you prefer to base your shooting technique on guns that are perfectly fit to your hand? Personally, I enjoy being able to pick up everything from J-frames through 1911's and Glocks up to 2011's and be able to work the trigger rapidly on each for accurate hits using the "crutch" of a vice-like grip.

I'm not calling for the abandonment of grip strength development. For a new male wishing to shoot well as quickly as possible, I would recommend getting to 100# of grip strength as soon as you can while retaining the ability to contract the trigger finger without tightening up the other fingers of the hand. I'd suggest that once you reach 100#, worry less about the rate of increase and approach additional gains with a strong eye towards avoiding injury. For women, I'd try to get to 80# ASAP and continue the development of more strength a bit more aggressively. The gun doesn't care who's shooting it, it cares (in part) about how strong the hands holding it are.

If you are stuck with a mandated gun then you're going to have to do whatever it takes to shoot well. If that means 180#, you best be getting strong. It also means that if you have choice in your firearm selection, you need to bias your selection towards fit.

[TCinVA]

I have never gone above 175lbs because that's what they happened to have in my old gym. They weren't COC, but some other brand that increased in 25lb increments.

So I put myself down for a 1.5. I think probably at my deadlifting peak I could have done 200lbs...at the time I was DLing a little over 400 so it seems reasonable. But I never had one around to try.

I did develop a bit of tennis elbow which believe can be a side effect of overworking, or poorly working, your grip. So I've dovetailed that injury with my general preference for laziness and heavy drinking and I'm in a resting phase now.

I have had issues with tendintis/tennis elbow/etc, too. I started using the Power Ball and that cleared up quite quickly.

https://powerballs.com/

I don't use it as much as I should, but it seemed to really help clear up my forearm issues.

[P.E. Kelley]

I offer this question as a counterpoint: Would you rather have the hand strength combined with correct technique that would allow you to shoot lights out with even poorly fit handguns, or would you prefer to base your shooting technique on guns that are perfectly fit to your hand? Personally, I enjoy being able to pick up everything from J-frames through 1911's and Glocks up to 2011's and be able to work the trigger rapidly on each for accurate hits using the "crutch" of a vice-like grip.

For reference, before I stopped working with them, I could just barely close #2's with both hands.

This is where I am too.
Having shot 20+ different handguns in steel challenge events over the last 2+ years, (from KelTec PF 9's to 455 Webley's) I have a really appreciation for, and I would say a need
for, a good firm if not hard grip. I am no TGO, but I agree that one can have a loosest of grip and hit just fine...ONCE...add speed and healthy grip is important.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I have had issues with tendintis/tennis elbow/etc, too. I started using the Power Ball and that cleared up quite quickly.

https://powerballs.com/

I don't use it as much as I should, but it seemed to really help clear up my forearm issues.

That's interesting, I will totally check these out.

[SLG]

TC,

Which power ball do you have? With your hair, why am I not surprised to find that you have powerballs...:-)

[bravo7]

All of these grip gimmicky gadgets do not fully develop your grip strength and will eventually lead to injury. Like a few have already suggested, just lift heavy $hit. Deads, variations of farmers carries (full jerry cans, bumper plates, barbells, hex side of dumbbells, etc), weighted pull-ups, cleans, snatches, sandbag throws, etc. A properly programmed strength and conditioning plan will be more than sufficient to enhance your grip strength.

[orionz06]

My 85 lb olympic shrug bar has over sized handles which are great for grip work. My standard 45 lb olympic shrug bar has, well, standard diameter grips.

BTW, I sold my set of CoC grippers and enjoy using the Ivanko Super Gripper (http://ivanko.com/Ivanko-Super-Gripper-Info.html) in their place.


I love mine.


One thing that I think is important to bear in mind is that training the grip can lead to, or exacerbate forearm / elbow issues (epicondylitis etc) unless some time is spent working the extensor muscles (http://www.ironmind-store.com/Expand-Your-Hand-Bands153-10-Bands/productinfo/1376/):

http://www.ironmind-store.com/images/1376-13C_f.jpg

These exercises have helped me tremendously, as well as the occasional use of the BandIT (http://www.proband.com/product/proband-bandit-forearm/) when forearm or elbow support / relief is called for :

http://www.proband.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/proband_bandit.jpg


The Iron Mind bands were almost solely responsible for fixing a few issues in one hand.


All of these grip gimmicky gadgets do not fully develop your grip strength and will eventually lead to injury. Like a few have already suggested, just lift heavy $hit. Deads, variations of farmers carries (full jerry cans, bumper plates, barbells, hex side of dumbbells, etc), weighted pull-ups, cleans, snatches, sandbag throws, etc. A properly programmed strength and conditioning plan will be more than sufficient to enhance your grip strength.

This is where I'm at now, with some extensor band work.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I found a lot of success by doing weighted pull-ups with a 35lb plate on a belt. In fact it was so effective that I decided never to do unweighted ones again, but, not having a particularly good setup for belting on the plate, I just incorporated the extra weight naturally on my beltline. Totally easy and makes your pulls and chins WAY more challenging. I recommend it.

[orionz06]

Hangs help too, not to mention the shoulder issues they can fix.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CDH]

Hangs help too, not to mention the shoulder issues they can fix.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please elaborate on the shoulder issue fixing. I'm curious as it is shoulder pain that limits my hang time.

[orionz06]

Please elaborate on the shoulder issue fixing. I'm curious as it is shoulder pain that limits my hang time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_5xZz78P7k

[JHC]

That hanging video and closely related that display on Youtube are pretty interesting dude. Thanks!

[guymontag]

I agree with a few posters in that I think regular healthy weightlifting is better than the CoC grippers. On that note, if anyone has a 0.5 they aren't using I'll trade a CoC 2 for it. ;)

[JHC]

Here's a new one on me. Anybody done much of this? Similiar to plate carries I guess although presumably one could go heavier with "pinch grip deadlift"

https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-strengthen-your-grip-to-lift-heavier

[Paul Sharp]

Here's a new one on me. Anybody done much of this? Similiar to plate carries I guess although presumably one could go heavier with "pinch grip deadlift"

https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-strengthen-your-grip-to-lift-heavier

I haven't done those but I've done quite a bit of work with Reeves deadlifts which would appear to have more application to what a fighter is attempting to build regarding grip than the Thib version of a pinch grip deadlift.

https://youtu.be/9HaM_huF_Oc

[Maple Syrup Actual]

That's f'ing gnarly.

[Paul Sharp]

That's f'ing gnarly.

The Reeves lifts actually made my banged up shoulders feel better, which seems counter-intuitive.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

It does but then again, I've always had more issues with muscles that were under utilized than ones that were intentionally strengthened.

Insanely bad ass lift though.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[SLG]

Mis just likes it because it is in Kg. And the dude is screaming. :-)

[TCinVA]

TC,

Which power ball do you have? With your hair, why am I not surprised to find that you have powerballs...:-)

I have the one that has an RPM counter and the cool blue lights. I like to use it in my office with the lights turned out and some EDM playing. It's kind of like a rave.

My actual balls, as splendid as they are, do not light up. #SadPanda

It seemed too stupid to be true when I started using it, but it really did make my forearm pain disappear. Or at least the disappearance of my forearm issues coincided with beginning to use it.

[guymontag]

I have had issues with tendintis/tennis elbow/etc, too. I started using the Power Ball and that cleared up quite quickly.

https://powerballs.com/

I don't use it as much as I should, but it seemed to really help clear up my forearm issues.

Thank you for spending my money.

[GRV]

I have the one that has an RPM counter and the cool blue lights. I like to use it in my office with the lights turned out and some EDM playing. It's kind of like a rave.

My actual balls, as splendid as they are, do not light up. #SadPanda

It seemed too stupid to be true when I started using it, but it really did make my forearm pain disappear. Or at least the disappearance of my forearm issues coincided with beginning to use it.

You strike me as a Darude "Sandstorm" kind of guy.

[MGW]

The Reeves lifts actually made my banged up shoulders feel better, which seems counter-intuitive.

Jacked up shoulders is the second thing I thought of. Wonder why it helped your shoulders? Any ideas?

Oh, my first thought was "don't piss off Paul."

Edit just realized that may not be you. But I still wouldn't want to piss you off.

[NickA]

The Reeves lifts actually made my banged up shoulders feel better, which seems counter-intuitive.
I've read that farmer's walks are great for messed up shoulders. Maybe there's something to the action of resisting against a load vs actively working the shoulder? Farmer's and Turkish get ups do seem to help my shoulder and neither is really a "shoulder exercise" per se.

For tennis elbow-like stuff I got great results using a Therabar. You can google it, but basically you hold it in the messed up hand, twist it with the other hand, and release the tension with the messed up one. Sort of the reverse of twisting a motorcycle throttle.

Has anyone used something like Fat Gripz? Gym doesn't have fat bars but I wonder if those might be worth a try just to mix things up.

[Paul Sharp]

Jacked up shoulders is the second thing I thought of. Wonder why it helped your shoulders? Any ideas?

Oh, my first thought was "don't piss off Paul."

Edit just realized that may not be you. But I still wouldn't want to piss you off.

That's not me, I'm pretty easy going. Eric is a little more..., excitable?

I think the action of stretching and strengthening is what helped. I'm not 100% on that, but one of the things I picked up from the Donnie Thompson guys was to do more hanging from chinning bars to help my shoulders and that has really helped. Their thoughts are it is a combination of stretching and strengthening that's happening when we hang from the bar.

[11B10]

All the individual gear and methods work here. I have tried many of them, especially those connected with progressive resistance. IMHO, for those who "only" want to work on proper hand strength for shooting, I have found nothing to increase what I call tensile grip strength (critical for shooting - again, IMHO) - better than the Gripmaster, which I had started a thread about recently. It's particularly good for not making the small hand/finger joints inflamed, something very important for me as I have pretty significant osteoarthritis.

[JohnO]

All the individual gear and methods work here. I have tried many of them, especially those connected with progressive resistance. IMHO, for those who "only" want to work on proper hand strength for shooting, I have found nothing to increase what I call tensile grip strength (critical for shooting - again, IMHO) - better than the Gripmaster, which I had started a thread about recently. It's particularly good for not making the small hand/finger joints inflamed, something very important for me as I have pretty significant osteoarthritis.

Holding Drills are quite effective in building grip strength and endurance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfARgCqWCvQ&t=19s

[txdpd]

I can close a 2 with either hand. I think COC grippers ok for occasionally measuring grip strength, and in hindsight are a pretty bad idea for grip strength training.

Grip force fat grips are great for grip training. Loosely wrapping an old T shirt around a bar will work too.
http://www.roguefitness.com/grip4orce

Edited: Grip4orce for pulling, Fatgripz for pressing. If you plan on benching and can only afford one get Fatgripz.

Wrist rollers are often overlooked, but are good for working the flexors and extensors.

Gada mace training is great for the grip and shoulders. I use a Kabuki Stength Shoulderok, but that's a lot of coin and DIY stuff will work well too.

Overhead carries, waiter carries, and combination suitcase/waiter carries, will work the grip and help build stability throughout the body and probably be more useful for developing the body for recoil management than exercises that focus on just grip strength.

[11B10]

Holding Drills are quite effective in building grip strength and endurance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfARgCqWCvQ&t=19s


Great link - thanks for posting it.

[ER_STL]

#2 with each hand but I've gotten away from CoC lately. It's becoming too easy to overdo it.

[FNFAN]

I can close a #2 both left & right handed. I have two cousins that are Mash Monster #5 certified beasties.

[1986s4]

I have had issues with tendintis/tennis elbow/etc, too. I started using the Power Ball and that cleared up quite quickly.

https://powerballs.com/

I don't use it as much as I should, but it seemed to really help clear up my forearm issues.

You find these work well? I have developed some tennis elbow that I would like to make go away. I row a lot so my grip strength is already pretty good and despite what some think good technique actually stretches the arms rather than over uses them.

[TCinVA]

You find these work well? I have developed some tennis elbow that I would like to make go away. I row a lot so my grip strength is already pretty good and despite what some think good technique actually stretches the arms rather than over uses them.

I can say that I have not had pain or weakness in my right arm since I began using it.

[Gio]

I think people get injured from the CoC grippers because they train them the wrong way. These aren't the kind of thing you keep in your car and squeeze out while you're driving around. They need to be treated like a maximum lift with a warm up, mobility work, cool down using the expand-your-hand bands, etc and done once or twice a week at the most with a week or two of complete grip rest built in periodically.

Farmers carries, plate squeezes, deadlifts, cleans, snatches, etc are great at building grip endurance, but they don't do much for your maximum grip strength. Rob Shaul (Mountain Athlete, Military Athlete owner) did a study about a year ago on grip strength and endurance and found that training one did not correlate to improve the other and that both max strength and endurance need to be trained independently to make gains on either. With any kind of action shooting, we are only gripping for 3-5 seconds on average before we get a break to reload or move, so maximum grip strength seems to be much more applicable to pistol shooting than the ability to hold something heavy for a long duration.

EDIT: Link to the study (http://strongswiftdurable.com/military-athlete-articles/grip-strength-matter-test-train/?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=24329991&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9Rqo-h_6qgJEW3ExtcBCe7Vm_Mr75VdUmtIVzjzTQbIfTDZprAwxB8u pa0T9VOUE2JPwfUUQmFcTMPNJR6Anv59ypxDkio0fA0ajb6WkV A_g6Vsi0&_hsmi=24329991)

Quote: "when it comes to training for grip strength it is vital that an athlete train sport specifically for the improvement they are seeking. In our most recent cycle, athletes trained grip endurance using the farmer’s carry and towel hang pull-ups mentioned above. Athletes completed 3 grip circuits 3 times a week as part of their regular training. Although the cycle only lasted 4 weeks, during our post test assessment it was clear that our grip training have very little effect on our athlete’s dynamometer grip strength.

Of the 17 individuals who participated in the testing and training 5 actually experienced decreases in their dynamometer grip strength while they increased their farmer’s carry and maintained their towel pull-up scores. Overall, all 17 subjects averaged only an insignificant increase (based on paired T-Test analysis, p>0.60) in dynamometer strength: 5.8% despite near significant increases in both farmer’s carry and towel pull-ups."

[11B10]

I can say that I have not had pain or weakness in my right arm since I began using it.



I drifted away from this thread and just now read this. What was your original injury/problem?

[TCinVA]

Never formally diagnosed, but I strongly suspect tendinitis. I'd had bouts of it on and off for a couple of years, long before I did anything with COC grippers.

[GunRacer]

COC grippers gave me some wicked tendonitis. But then again, I was overdoing it for sure. I also wasn't exercising the rest of my upper body at the time.

Honestly, I don't think they are truly necessary if you shoot a lot. You will develop grip strength with practice. Shoot until the gun tracks where you want it. Good enough.

For what it's worth to the OP, I was closing a COC 1.5 when I made GM.

[Totem Polar]

Have we seen this one yet?

http://gawker.com/millennial-men-lack-the-grip-strength-to-protect-our-na-1785295658


I blame the "fleshlight" for reducing our nation's readiness.



Carry on.

[Win94ae]

Never heard of it, but I do climb a rope everyday; so I'm guessing more than 150 pounds, which is what I weigh.

[cheshire_cat]

I just got the #1. Today I did 10 reps each hand with the trainer warm up, then I could only do a couple reps each hand with the #1. Then a burnout of 30 reps each hand with the trainer. Those of you who can do 2 and up, impressive! That is my goal.

[Slalom.45]

Just watched the Bob Vogel interview on the Shooter's Summit series. Ordered a No. 1 today. He and Stoeger talk about gripping the gun as hard a possible. Since I follow both guys I might as well do some focused work on my grip strength.

As a PT by trade I would think tendonitis issues would be caused by overuse. These are far heavier than the grippers we use in a rehab setting. Low reps and moderate frequency is my plan.

[45dotACP]

Just watched the Bob Vogel interview on the Shooter's Summit series. Ordered a No. 1 today. He and Stoeger talk about gripping the gun as hard a possible. Since I follow both guys I might as well do some focused work on my grip strength.

As a PT by trade I would think tendonitis issues would be caused by overuse. These are far heavier than the grippers we use in a rehab setting. Low reps and moderate frequency is my plan.

As a PT, your further thoughts would be interesting to me... Especially as far as building grip strength safely is concerned. The tools, techniques and frequency you'd recommend etc...Lots of guys here like the flexbars, the CoC grippers...I personally just try to shoot, lift, and grapple but stronger grips would improve my BJJ game a small degree too I suspect.

[Duces Tecum]

As a PT by trade I would think tendonitis issues would be caused by overuse. These are far heavier than the grippers we use in a rehab setting. Low reps and moderate frequency is my plan.

Tendonitis is a real concern, and you surely have the right avoidance program. Regarding the CoC grippers, when I do up to 5 sets of 5 reps twice a week, there is no tendonitis. For me, raising the sets or the reps or the frequency above those numbers results in tendonitis.

Keeping grip work to twice a week sessions of 5 of 5 means I can move to the next stronger gripper after about 30 exercise sessions (15 weeks or so).

[GRV]

Anyone have any tips or warnings for using the extensor bands? What sort of program have people followed for those?

Right now I'm not using any grippers, I'm just relying on strength training and dryfire, but I use the extensor bands for a ~3 sets of 12 after dryfire everyday or after a grip intensive workout at the gym. I do a set with a warmup resistance then another 2-3 sets with a working resistance. Sometimes I'll do a few final reps with a higher resistance or do a isometric hold to wrap things up.

[SLG]

I used to use the bands very regularly, and then I injured my hands last year in an unrelated way. As I built my strength back up, I failed to use the bands. I just re injured my hands last week, and my grip strength is noticeably down. Looks like I need to go back to the bands and not forget... I'm not saying the bands would have prevented injury, but I think they do a good job of balancing things out to be safer. Also, I find a warm up to be essential now, and I've been skipping that lately. I think that has a lot to do with me reinjuring them.

[blues]

Anyone have any tips or warnings for using the extensor bands? What sort of program have people followed for those?

Right now I'm not using any grippers, I'm just relying on strength training and dryfire, but I use the extensor bands for a ~3 sets of 12 after dryfire everyday or after a grip intensive workout at the gym. I do a set with a warmup resistance then another 2-3 sets with a working resistance. Sometimes I'll do a few final reps with a higher resistance or do a isometric hold to wrap things up.


I used to use the bands very regularly, and then I injured my hands last year in an unrelated way. As I built my strength back up, I failed to use the bands. I just re injured my hands last week, and my grip strength is noticeably down. Looks like I need to go back to the bands and not forget... I'm not saying the bands would have prevented injury, but I think they do a good job of balancing things out to be safer. Also, I find a warm up to be essential now, and I've been skipping that lately. I think that has a lot to do with me reinjuring them.

Before I begin my weight training sessions I warm up with rotator cuff exercises and some grip work via hanging off a chinning bar as discussed (as I recall) earlier in this thread.

At the end of each session I do grip work via the Ivanko Super Gripper, a forearm / wrist roller device and lastly with the IronMind bands. I always try to use the gripper and bands in balance with each other much as I try to do a pulling movement for every pushing movement with the weights.

As someone who has had some on again / off again nagging issues with forearms and elbows (epicondylitis), this has really worked wonderfully well for me...first as rehab, now as prevention. I rarely (knock on wood) get plagued with these issues unless I have to overuse a joint due to a long day of shoveling, chopping, sledge hammering etc.

With the bands I'll usually just do a few sets of 15 or so...with the thumb included and sometimes only with the four fingers. Just work until I feel the extensors fatiguing.

[GRV]

Okay, sounds like I'm using them similarly.

I only ask because there's a dialogue that the tendonitis is due to some sort of flexor/extensor imbalance and that working the extensors with the bands prevents it. Meanwhile, there's another dialogue which is that the tendonitis is from overuse. I don't really see how the extensor bands undo use, and I was wondering if anyone experienced any overuse problems from working too frequently with the bands.

I'm definitely using the bands a lot more than people say to use the grippers, and the plain truth is that the bands are using something.

[Duces Tecum]

I only ask because there's a dialogue that the tendonitis is due to some sort of flexor/extensor imbalance and that working the extensors with the bands prevents it. Meanwhile, there's another dialogue which is that the tendonitis is from overuse.

Personally, I don't think the flexor/extensor argument is supportable. The hands are designed to flex. The extensors are there only as a courtesy so the hand can be used more than once. Resisting nature by trying to balance the flexors against the extensors would seem unlikely to succeed because they simply don't have the same mass: the palm side of the forearm has more muscles than the top.

On the other hand, the overuse argument has an empirical appeal. As posted earlier, I've found that overworking CoC grippers really encourages tendonitis.

[blues]

Personally, I don't think the flexor/extensor argument is supportable. The hands are designed to flex. The extensors are there only as a courtesy so the hand can be used more than once. Resisting nature by trying to balance the flexors against the extensors would seem unlikely to succeed because they simply don't have the same mass: the palm side of the forearm has more muscles than the top.

On the other hand, the overuse argument has an empirical appeal. As posted earlier, I've found that overworking CoC grippers really encourages tendonitis.

DT, I would only like to recommend that you try it before you throw it out as a viable technique to help mitigate and reduce overuse injuries. Simple and inexpensive enough to try out just using simple rubber bands, inner tubes etc cut to the right size and width.

I don't think that the two sets of muscles would ever be equivalent in strength, it's just that they seem to support the system better when the extensors aren't neglected. Anyway, I can only speak from my own personal experience over a number of years rock climbing, lifting weights, and participating in various athletic endeavors.

I grant you that YMMV.

[txdpd]

Okay, sounds like I'm using them similarly.

I only ask because there's a dialogue that the tendonitis is due to some sort of flexor/extensor imbalance and that working the extensors with the bands prevents it. Meanwhile, there's another dialogue which is that the tendonitis is from overuse. I don't really see how the extensor bands undo use, and I was wondering if anyone experienced any overuse problems from working too frequently with the bands.

I'm definitely using the bands a lot more than people say to use the grippers, and the plain truth is that the bands are using something.

A strong crush grip is impressive because of how rare they are and how hard they are to develop.

Traditionally the people with the strong grips do manual labor and usually start at a young age (usually it's support grip and pinch grip). That grip isn't something that happened over night or in a gym twice a week, it's decades of hard work. Playing with heavy grippers is getting to that strong grip end goal in a hurry, but skipping out on paying dues. IMO this is why most people end up with problems when they work with heavy grippers. Tendons and ligaments adapt, grow, and repair at a snails pace compared to muscles. You can develop the muscle for a strong grip in a very short period of time, your tendons will need years of consistent work to develop. You can mitigate and reduce some of the impact of grippers with flexbars and bands, but if you're not building off of that base of years hard work, you're probably going to have problems. Personally I think tendonitis with grippers is an undevelopment problem not an overuse one, or it's overuse of underdeveloped tendons.

If your worried about developing or aggravating tendonitis with grippers, it's probably best to just leave the heavy grippers alone. You can build a strong support and pinch grip, that will carryover to a respectable crush grip, with a lot less risk.

Bob Vogel is not a great shooter because he has a superhuman crush grip. He's great because he's disciplined and he's always looking for a way to take his game to the next level. He's spent years refining his craft and paying his dues, what makes him great is that he doesn't stop and settle. If he had an average grip he'd still find a way to be great. He grew up on a farm, that should be a clue about when his grip "training" started.

[JohnO]

Sorry my bad posted here in error.

[GRV]

Necro post

So I took txdpd's advice (and wtturn's elsewhere) and avoided the CoC's after starting this thread, instead I just focused on building strength. For the last few years I've been lifting very regularly, mostly under the guidance of a good trainer. I also took up gymnastics and was doing that up to 4x a week. Then, last year around this time, I dislocated my strong-side shoulder and tore my labrum. Surgery and rehab brought me to New Year's. Then, I broke my weak-side wrist. For the past few months I've been rehabbing that. The only time I got to see a therapist for the wrist (a few months ago), they measured my crush grip at 116 lbs strong side and 90 lbs weak side. The strong side number matches up with my memory and journal from around the time of this thread. They gave me a plastic gripper, some theraband, and told me to buy a powerball. I got the NSD Titan and have been working with that and the plastic gripper since then. After the pandemic started, I got a set of rings for my pullup bar, since I haven't been able to return to gymnastics since my injury.

Discouraged that my measured crush grip didn't seem to have improved, I decided I'd probably give the CoC a shot. Now that the plastic gripper has gotten easy, I bought a set. The 0.5 through 2 arrived today, and I'm waiting on the G through T. My plan is to start with the G and work up very slowly. Nonetheless, when I got the 0.5 through 2 today, I couldn't help but give them a shot. I was shocked. Right out the gate I closed the 1 with each hand. After a couple of failed attempts, I'm pretty sure I closed the 1.5 strong side, and I got extremely close weak side. I tried the 1.5 again strong side to confirm but failed, tapped out. I haven't tried the 2, and I'm satisfied for now to quit while I'm ahead....my weak-side wrist was already bitching a little after each attempt.

I definitely think there's a bit of technique involved, particularly for the last little bit. I had one or two failed reps on the 0.5 out the gate, but after being totally sure I closed the 1 (and having warmed up properly) I went back to the 0.5 and closed it. I find the positioning techniques described in this video help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pJcRDSqOIs, but I'm not setting them at all, I'm starting completely open, and I can close the 1 right after picking up the gripper and grabbing naturally with some sticking out the bottom. So, I don't know, maybe I'm "cheating" a little by moving low on the gripper, maybe the ones I got are a little weaker, or maybe something was off in my technique 3 years ago, but hand on metal today...it does seem to me like getting stronger over the last few years has made a difference.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in and the various people I've gotten advice from on PF about strength training!

[ER_STL]

Necro post

So I took txdpd's advice (and wtturn's elsewhere) and avoided the CoC's after starting this thread, instead I just focused on building strength. For the last few years I've been lifting very regularly, mostly under the guidance of a good trainer. I also took up gymnastics and was doing that up to 4x a week. Then, last year around this time, I dislocated my strong-side shoulder and tore my labrum. Surgery and rehab brought me to New Year's. Then, I broke my weak-side wrist. For the past few months I've been rehabbing that. The only time I got to see a therapist for the wrist (a few months ago), they measured my crush grip at 116 lbs strong side and 90 lbs weak side. The strong side number matches up with my memory and journal from around the time of this thread. They gave me a plastic gripper, some theraband, and told me to buy a powerball. I got the NSD Titan and have been working with that and the plastic gripper since then. After the pandemic started, I got a set of rings for my pullup bar, since I haven't been able to return to gymnastics since my injury.

Discouraged that my measured crush grip didn't seem to have improved, I decided I'd probably give the CoC a shot. Now that the plastic gripper has gotten easy, I bought a set. The 0.5 through 2 arrived today, and I'm waiting on the G through T. My plan is to start with the G and work up very slowly. Nonetheless, when I got the 0.5 through 2 today, I couldn't help but give them a shot. I was shocked. Right out the gate I closed the 1 with each hand. After a couple of failed attempts, I'm pretty sure I closed the 1.5 strong side, and I got extremely close weak side. I tried the 1.5 again strong side to confirm but failed, tapped out. I haven't tried the 2, and I'm satisfied for now to quit while I'm ahead....my weak-side wrist was already bitching a little after each attempt.

I definitely think there's a bit of technique involved, particularly for the last little bit. I had one or two failed reps on the 0.5 out the gate, but after being totally sure I closed the 1 (and having warmed up properly) I went back to the 0.5 and closed it. I find the positioning techniques described in this video help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pJcRDSqOIs, but I'm not setting them at all, I'm starting completely open, and I can close the 1 right after picking up the gripper and grabbing naturally with some sticking out the bottom. So, I don't know, maybe I'm "cheating" a little by moving low on the gripper, maybe the ones I got are a little weaker, or maybe something was off in my technique 3 years ago, but hand on metal today...it does seem to me like getting stronger over the last few years has made a difference.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in and the various people I've gotten advice from on PF about strength training!

There most definitely is technique involved, especially if you're simply going for max leverage against the gripper. In that instance, having your hand as low as possible on the gripper without losing your pinky finger's contribution is the way to go.

As you already know, just be careful with them. People have a tendency to overwork themselves on CoCs to the point of developing tendonitis, which likes to hang around forever.

[Gio]

FWIW, I still train CoC grippers regularly. I treat it like a heavy lift and do it once a week. I also do other grip exercises like rope climbs, farmers carry, plate squeeze carries, etc. I work the extensor muscles as well with the CoC rubber bands. I can currently close a 2.5 and get a 3 about 1 cm from closing.

I still believe having higher maximum grip strength helps you control recoil more. I don’t squeeze the pistol with 100% of my strength, its probably more like 50% of my weak hand strength and 30% of my strong hand strength, but those percentages will translate to a lot more actual force than someone who doesn’t train grip strength at all. Most people think they grip the gun pretty hard, but if you put them on slow motion camera you’ll actually see the gun shifting in their hand quite a bit.

I also still believe that this is way down low on the list of things that result in measurable improvement. I made GM long before I even picked up a CoC for the first time, but subjectively, I do think my recoil control is better now than it’s ever been.

[dustyvarmint]

Pretty old thread here found by searching but it gave me a lot of what I'm looking. Good discussion overall. Glad I searched first before asking. I'm resurrecting in the case it might help others.

-Been using CoC since training with Vogel many years ago.
-Have plateaued at about 95 lbs (between Sport and Trainer) with support hand and 110 (between Trainer and .5) with primary hand.
-The CoC come with instructions that say not to over do it, so I've been cautious from the start.
-Archery did the elbows worse than CoC have ever done. GI BJJ aggravates the fingers, thumbs, and elbows way more than CoC has ever done.
-56ish years old, 145 lbs, 5' 6".
-Regular bodyweight and dumbbell workout practitioner.
-The Ron Avery video among the threads was extremely helpful.
-The PowerBall tip from TCinVA was quite helpful. Gonna give that a try as well.

happy shooting, Jerry

[GJM]

I am convinced Captains of Crush are a major competitive advantage for Vogel. He gets other people using them, and then they screw up their elbows and have trouble shooting.

[John Hearne]

IIRC, crush grip strength over 145 lbs puts you in the top 95% of the male population without adjusting for age.

[theJanitor]

I've been fighting pain and reduced strength in my strong hand for the past year. It culminated with a cortisone shot in my middle finger to suppress "trigger finger". I "feel" like I've lost 40% of my hand strength and I have a hard time making a strong closed fist. But because of this thread popping up I grabbed a CoC #2 and just squeezed it, so maybe it's not as bad as I thought it was

[1slow]

Pre arthritis I could close a #2 with either hand.

Post arthritis #1 with either hand.

As others have said :
COC grippers 1-2 times a week, treat like a heavy deadlift.
Rubber band 5 finger extensions.
Farmers walks.

[Le Français]

As others have said :
COC grippers 1-2 times a week, treat like a heavy deadlift.
Rubber band 5 finger extensions.
Farmers walks.

A dead hang from a bar is also good for grip strength (and for shoulder health).

[JHC]

I am convinced Captains of Crush are a major competitive advantage for Vogel. He gets other people using them, and then they screw up their elbows and have trouble shooting.

Back years ago when they were the hotness for improving pistol shooting I gave them a go and quit them pretty fast. I think there is more that is unknown about grip strength than is known. I think individual anatomy is a big factor is closing a CofC device. At that time I was doing pull ups with an 80 lb dumbell tied to my waist for reps and the grip was never the failure point. Couldn't fully close a Trainer though.

Now I've concluded the crazy crush grip of the dominant hand is not as important as it was once thought during crush grip's 15 minutes of fame. Clusterfrack thanks for all your posts on that topic. Learning happened.

[Spartan1980]

I stopped at the Trainer, so I don't really know what I can close. I can do reps with the trainer though. Usually do 4 to 5 sets of 5 when I break them out. I might, maybe can close a 1.0 but am confident I could close a .5. I don't use them often anymore due to pain in my strong hand that is probably arthritis. Voltaren gel seems to help. I'll think I'm getting weaker and then break them out to find that I can do as much as ever, it just hurts more. For now...

[Joe Mac]

I think individual anatomy is a big factor is closing a CofC device. At that time I was doing pull ups with an 80 lb dumbell tied to my waist for reps and the grip was never the failure point. Couldn't fully close a Trainer though.


I think you're correct. For years I was 1/4" away from closing a #3 but could never get there, and I like to blame the lack of leverage in my stubby fingers! My grip has always been strong from training thick bar DLs, and straps never did anything for me on conventional DL because I could hang onto anything I could lift.

These days I do most of my gripper training on the IM Zenith grippers (#2 and 3, which I think are analogous to #1 and 2 CoC), the shape of which I find more conducive to short digits. I don't train them as often as I should, though, because I do indeed find that my shooting is better when I'm training the grippers consistently. The Expand bands are just as important; I alternate all gripper sets with a red band.

[Sig_Fiend]

CoC can certainly be useful in building grip strength or improving a deficiency. The problem I find with them is people's inability to pay attention to what they're doing and be smart about it. It's just like any other weight training. Sets, reps, rest and recovery periods. For example, people that just bang out endless reps, 7 days a week, while watching TV, are in for a rough time and might end up doing long term damage if they're not careful.

[Joe S]

CoC can certainly be useful in building grip strength or improving a deficiency. The problem I find with them is people's inability to pay attention to what they're doing and be smart about it. It's just like any other weight training. Sets, reps, rest and recovery periods. For example, people that just bang out endless reps, 7 days a week, while watching TV, are in for a rough time and might end up doing long term damage if they're not careful.

Along these lines, if you are going to be doing a lot of hand/wrist flexor work, it can be helpful to work the opposite direction to help prevent problems. https://ironmind.com/product-info/ironmind-grip-tools/Expand-Your-Hand-Bands/

[Joe Mac]

CoC can certainly be useful in building grip strength or improving a deficiency. The problem I find with them is people's inability to pay attention to what they're doing and be smart about it. It's just like any other weight training. Sets, reps, rest and recovery periods. For example, people that just bang out endless reps, 7 days a week, while watching TV, are in for a rough time and might end up doing long term damage if they're not careful.

Yes, even at my peak with the IM grippers I only trained them twice a week, for a limited number of sets. These days it's once a week, and I need to get more consistent about that, even.