5.56 SBR Suppressor?

[GunRacer]

Hello, everyone.

I'm in the process of building a dedicated suppressed 10.3" 5.56 carbine. While I wait for stamp #1, I've been researching cans. I was set on a Saker 5.56 because of the superior attenuation and size. However, it seems like the industry is getting away from dedicated 5.56 cans. New companies like Dead Air and Rugged only offer .30 caliber cans, as you all know. Is it worth investing in newer technology or staying with the 5.56 idea? Like I said, this can will live on the 5.56 host. Is there any good reason to go with a .30 can?

Currently looking at Saker 5.56, Dead Air Sandman S, Rugged Surge/Razor.

[voodoo_man]

I have a 10.3 DD sbr that is suppressed with a gemtech g5t.

It's not coming off that barrel since it is sorta the best I've seen around for it.

If you are looking for a suppressor you can have on many different rifles then yeah, go with a Multi caliber can, like The One. Otherwise I'd definitely recommend getting a specific type of can for a specific type of application.

[Default.mp3]

I see no reason to get a .30 caliber can if you're sure that it will be dedicated on a .223 caliber gun. You will have less sound suppression; remember, decibels operate on a base 10 logarithmic scale; a 3 dB gain is a raw doubling of the energy. Thus, Saker 556 at 134 dB attenuates the sound energy much more than the Razor 762 at 138.7 dB, even if our ears can't really tell the difference.

If I've done my math right, raw, non-log values will put the Saker 556 as being ~100 Pa of pressure, while the Razor 762 is at ~172 Pa of pressure; the threshold of human hearing (approximated by a mosquito flying 3 meters away) is about 0.000002 of pressure, while pain is suppose to start at around 125 dB, which is ~35.5 Pa of pressure.

Then again, noise attenuation isn't always what people are after in suppressors; there are many other factors involved, such as length, weight, repeatable change in POA/POI shift, durability, long term viability of the company itself for warranty issues, etc.

[LittleLebowski]

I'd go .30 unless you already have one. Speaking as a guy with both 5.56 and 7.62 cans.

[punkey71]

While a 30 cal can would be great and versatile, I'd take a look at 5.56 K cans as well if you're dedicating this can to one SBR.

I've shot 30, 556 and 556K cans on 556 SBRs and they're all loud. That's not meant to discredit or ignore DMP3s data above at all. I'm just not shooting 556 suppressed without ears except while hunting so I've come to appreciate the weight savings of a K can on SBRs. 4-5 ozs at the end of a barrel is noticeable to me. It still suppresses well and reduces concussion. In fact, the AT-EAR DBs were lower in a K can than its full size cousin in testing. In ARs the port noise plays a large role in what we hear. A mil spec meter reading is nowhere near your ear.

No matter what you get you'll love be it, I'm sure.

All the above advice is excellent and valid. I'm just offering a different perspective.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GunRacer]

Thanks for the good information, everyone. So, one thing I've read online is that some .30 cans sound a little quieter to the shooter because of reduced back pressure. Sounds like BS, but okay. I'm honestly a lot more concerned about what I hear than the folks around me. Is there any validity to that?

Re: Default
Yessir, you nailed the dB description. I learned a lot about decibels and hearing damage after the permanent, screeching tinnitus set in. Now I just want to keep it from worsening.

Re: Lebowski
What is the advantage of a .30 on a 5.56? I'd like to hear your thoughts since you own both. This will be my first suppressor.

Out of curiosity, what would be the appropriate gas port size for a .30 can on a 10.3"? I was planning on .049 for the 5.56 can.

[gskip]

Go for a K can. I'd get a Specwar 556 K if I could.

And as to all the people saying that it is too loud, I would disagree. My 14.5 Middy with a Specwar 556 can on it is plenty hearing safe. Even the Saker 556 K on a 7.5 PWS Diablo was hearing safe in my opinion.

I like Silencerco stuff.

[Default.mp3]

Thanks for the good information, everyone. So, one thing I've read online is that some .30 cans sound a little quieter to the shooter because of reduced back pressure. Sounds like BS, but okay. I'm honestly a lot more concerned about what I hear than the folks around me. Is there any validity to that? I assume that has to do with the fact that the reduced back pressure leads to reduced port noise. I don't know if its true or not, but it doesn't sound implausible.


My 14.5 Middy with a Specwar 556 can on it is plenty hearing safe. Even the Saker 556 K on a 7.5 PWS Diablo was hearing safe in my opinion.Note: none of this should be construed as medical advice, but merely the typing of someone who has done some light reading.

Hearing safe means something, though. Just because you're not experience pain doesn't mean you're not losing hearing. The supersonic crack of the rounds themselves will contribute to hearing loss. Individual events don't do very much damage upon themselves, but hearing loss is quite often a cumulative event.

[gskip]

That could be true Default and I haven't really considered it. But I will say that I experience no pain or even discomfort shooting that 14.5 suppressed. Just gas.

[MistWolf]

When I get everything out of quarantine, I'll be installing a Silencerco Omega on a Colt 6933 which had an 11.5" barrel. I will be using the direct thread end end cap and 5.56 muzzle cap as I plan to only shoot the rifle suppressed. I bought the Omega because it's only 14 oz is a little over 6" in length and allows mounting by direct thread.

I haven't shot it yet, so I'm not sure how well it's gonna work

[LittleLebowski]

Re: Lebowski
What is the advantage of a .30 on a 5.56? I'd like to hear your thoughts since you own both. This will be my first suppressor.


Flexibility. Do you ever plan to own a .300Blk? Do you ever plan to hunt with say a .308 or even 6.5 Grendel or Creedmore? It's just a no brainer in that for a little bit more money up front, you wouldn't be limited so very much on caliber selection. It's all well and good if you can afford both 5.56 and 7.62 cans but can you?

[farscott]

Setting aside money, does the larger volume of a 7.62 can make it quieter or louder than the same model of can in 5.56? Since 7.62mm has a larger amount of powder and makes more gas, would a 7.62mm can be more durable than a 5.56mm can? Any differences with function on short SBR uppers (10.3" and 11.5") between a 7.62 can and a 5.56 can?

I also want to go the suppressed SBR route and plan on buying (paying for and going into Form 4 purgatory) a can before the end of the year.

[gskip]

If you are going with a .308 can be sure it can take a different end cap. From what I understand, if you keep the 30 cal end cap on the can, it'll be slightly louder. However, if you get the 223 end cap the 30 cal can could be quieter.

Personally I don't think it's worth the weight, but it all depends on what your priorities are. I have no desire to suppress a 30 cal and there would be no reason for me to get a multi-caliber suppressor so I just got a dedicated 223 can.

And I know the Specwar 7.62 is rated down to 7.5 in 223, but the Specwar 556 is rated only down to 10.5 in 223. 30 cal cans are typically more beefy than the 223 (obviously depends on the can though).

[Default.mp3]

Setting aside money, does the larger volume of a 7.62 can make it quieter or louder than the same model of can in 5.56? Since 7.62mm has a larger amount of powder and makes more gas, would a 7.62mm can be more durable than a 5.56mm can? Any differences with function on short SBR uppers (10.3" and 11.5") between a 7.62 can and a 5.56 can?.A .30 caliber can will be louder than a .223 caliber can if they are the same length, as the usable volume in the .30 cal is smaller. A full-sized .30 caliber will generally be quieter than a .223 caliber can of the same design.

The obvious example here are the Surefire SOCOMs. The SOCOM556-RC2 will be quieter than then SOCOM762-MINI2 when attached to a 5.56×45mm NATO firearm; they are the same length, but the SOCOM762-MINI obviously has a larger bore. However, the SOCOM762-RC2 will be quieter than a SOCOM556-RC2 on the same firearms; the increased length of the SOCOM762-RC2 is a fair bit longer than the SOCOM556-RC2 gives it enough volume to make up for the larger bore of the .30 caliber can.

A .30 caliber can is generally rated for a shorter barrel on smaller calibers due to bullet instability; the larger bore is more forgiving of an unstable bullet from a very short barrel, thus less chance of a baffle strike. This is why the SOCOM556-RC2 is rated down to 10", but the SOCOM556-SB2 is rated for below 10"; the only difference is the larger bore of the SB2, though its not as big as a 6.8 bore.

[LittleLebowski]

If you are going with a .308 can be sure it can take a different end cap. From what I understand, if you keep the 30 cal end cap on the can, it'll be slightly louder. However, if you get the 223 end cap the 30 cal can could be quieter.


It's really not enough of a change to be discernible to the human ear, it's still going to be loud. Tone matters more than a DB or two.

[rob_s]

IMO, the A-Answer is a dedicated, permanent, 5.56 AR tuned to run suppressed-only to your particular can with the can never leaving the gun.

However, cans are toys, and they are expensive toys, and expensive toys should be as multi-purpose as possible to spread the waste around, so I'd suggest the .30 can to spread your wasted money across as many various ballistic modes of entertainment as possible.

I would also, therefore, select my .30 can based on manufacturer (if you've never heard of the company, ignore them) and availability of various mounts (make sure they make them for your AK, your FAL, your .308 hunting rifle, your 5.56 AR, etc.).

Whether or not it comes with other endcaps would be wholly irrelevant to me because I'd never be bothered to change it out.

[MistWolf]

The reality is, the biggest performance advantage in using a 30 caliber can for your 5.56 is that it reduces the chance of baffle strikes

[LittleLebowski]

It's really, really hard to get around the flexibility of the SiCo Omega (http://hansohnbrothers.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_69&product_id=297&limit=100). It is both direct thread and quick detach out of the box. Helpful comparison of different rifle suppressors here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19640-Ever-want-to-compare-an-Specwar-Omega-Sandman-Surge-YHM-OSS-all-at-once).

[rob_s]

It's really, really hard to get around the flexibility of the SiCo Omega (http://hansohnbrothers.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_69&product_id=297&limit=100). It is both direct thread and quick detach out of the box. Helpful comparison of different rifle suppressors here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19640-Ever-want-to-compare-an-Specwar-Omega-Sandman-Surge-YHM-OSS-all-at-once).

I would have a really hard time buying any other rifle can today, and can't think of any real-world reason to do so.

[GunRacer]

Thanks for the feedback, folks. I took a trip to the local suppressor shop today and handled a few cans. I've narrowed it down to Omega and Sandman S. The dealer was adamant about the Omega, but didn't have anything bad to say about the Sandman other than it was louder. Still, the Sandman felt like a tank in comparison! Also, the mount was better. I'll likely end up with both down the road. But I think I'll buy an Omega first. I'm not shooting auto, or really very much 5.56 at all, frankly. The Omega with a 5.56 end cap is probably my best bet for attenuation (130ish at the muzzle), size, and versatility.

[LittleLebowski]

Just be aware that 5.56 endcap or not, 5.56 is loud.

[El Cid]

Thanks for the feedback, folks. I took a trip to the local suppressor shop today and handled a few cans. I've narrowed it down to Omega and Sandman S. The dealer was adamant about the Omega, but didn't have anything bad to say about the Sandman other than it was louder. Still, the Sandman felt like a tank in comparison! Also, the mount was better. I'll likely end up with both down the road. But I think I'll buy an Omega first. I'm not shooting auto, or really very much 5.56 at all, frankly. The Omega with a 5.56 end cap is probably my best bet for attenuation (130ish at the muzzle), size, and versatility.

If you're LE/mil/veteran then look into the Silencerco SPEQ program. Will save you quite a chunk of change and maybe make your decision easier.

I have an Omega that I am going to put on a 5.56 rifle. No matter what I did it wouldn't run on my .308 (not the cans fault).

[bravo7]

I prefer the Sakers over the Omega personally.

[LittleLebowski]

I prefer the Sakers over the Omega personally.

I'm pretty happy with my Sakers :cool:

[GunRacer]

Well, I too prefer the full stellite construction. That's the main reason I was looking at the Sandman. But then I think that durability probably isn't my main concern right now. I'm sure I'd be happy with either, but the Omega's construction gives me pause.

[LittleLebowski]

Well, I too prefer the full stellite construction. That's the main reason I was looking at the Sandman. But then I think that durability probably isn't my main concern right now. I'm sure I'd be happy with either, but the Omega's construction gives me pause.

SiCo will stand behind the Omega, don't worry about that.

[GunRacer]

For what it's worth, I ended up buying the Sandman-S. Dead Air has a free muzzle device promotion through December. That put the price on par with the Omega, which also includes two muzzle devices. And I really, really like the Sandman mounts. Thanks for the advise, everyone.

[rob_s]

I prefer the Sakers over the Omega personally.

For what kind of shooting?

[Risto]

information...

This is my first can. I recently got my Omega out of jail. Put it on my 11.5 SBR. Small change in POI just putting on the ASR flash hider. About 7" low at 200yrds with Omega and the comp on the end of it. Getting some funny results with the 30 cal flat cap. Didn't vet it enough to make sure it wasn't me.

I haven't tried anything with direct thread, only ASR DQ.

[rob_s]

That sounds pretty reasonable in terms of shift to me.

[bravo7]

For what kind of shooting?

SBRs and SPR/DMR roles.