VP9, mag release technique

[GJM]

Interested in how folks drop the magazine for fastest in battery reloads.

[Default.mp3]

I use my trigger finger on my P30LS; the VP series has an identical magazine release, last I checked. My strong hand shifts slightly, but re-establishes a full grip once the weak hand is back on the gun. My reloads are generally around 2.0 ± 0.1 seconds, against a 3"×5" index card at 7 yards.

[EVP]

I habr always used my middle finger for HKs. The same with the VP. It seems the most natural and easiest for me.

[Talionis]

Interested in how folks drop the magazine for fastest in battery reloads.

While moving;) Less flippantly; I shift my grip and hit it with the trigger finger. Video example:
http://youtu.be/i2bj_UA3gDg

Still pulled from that video: 11703

[RJ]

I habr always used my middle finger for HKs. The same with the VP. It seems the most natural and easiest for me.

Me too.

I just can't reach the paddle with the trigger finger on my size M hands.

[Luke]

Index finger. Somebody I respected told me middle finger was sketchy because you get some involuntary movement with the other fingers and using index puts all the other fingers lower than the trigger and middle leaves one around the trigger.

[Wondering Beard]

I use my thumb because I don't shoot the VP9 anywhere near enough to warrant changing the system I use with my Glocks and 1911s; also, my hand is apparently large enough that it's pretty easy to do.

Weak hand I use my middle finger because using my trigger finger really screws up my grip.

[EVP]

Index finger. Somebody I respected told me middle finger was sketchy because you get some involuntary movement with the other fingers and using index puts all the other fingers lower than the trigger and middle leaves one around the trigger.

None of my other fingers get near the trigger, my trigger finger is indexed high on the frame.

This(like many other things) is highly dependent on the shooters specific hand and how it interfaces with the gun.

[Surf]

I agree that it is very much shooter dependent. I personally use my index finger. My middle finger doesn't work well.

[Jeff S.]

I use my thumb. Never could get accustomed to using my trigger finger or middle finger. I do have really long thumbs, so maybe that helps.

[LOKNLOD]

I used my middle finger, with my trigger finger indexed up on the frame. It gave a little extra leverage and didn't require me to compromise the rest of my grip as much.

That technique worked well for using the less-effective version of paddle release on an original PPS, too.

I wish all guns we're available with a P30/VP9 release.

[Dagga Boy]

I use a trigger finger. Same as I did with the P7, USP, and all the later guns. It is very natural to me and far faster than a traditional thumb button and I do not have much grip shift at all. Aaron Marco uses his middle finger to leave his trigger finger in index. I "think" this is "better" from a purely safety standpoint and if training total newbies at an academy would likely start this way. With that said, I have found human beings have massive differences in hand size, digit size and dexterity. This is something that would likelrequire a bit of flexibility on based on anatomy.

[GJM]

Great replies. Without considering why, I have been using my index finger. It seems slower than the button on my CZ, and my current choke point on reload speed. Also, don't like my trigger finger near the trigger and would rather have it indexed against the slide.

[YVK]

If you think about it, you're consciously leaving trigger face with your finger and going somewhere else with it. As I said in our phone conversation, I don't think that an in-battery speed reload was on a list of HKs priorities but I am yet to ND through thousands of reloads. I am a little worried about DA/SA guns with SA trigger position so close to the release, I am not a bit worried with LEM and its self-decocking action, and the VP9 is probably in the middle.

Not one person who replied noticed how you're a VP9 fanboy these days.

[psalms144.1]

Not one person who replied noticed how you're a VP9 fanboy these days.Oh, I did. But, with George, we know "this too shall pass" when it comes to fanboi-ism...

[Mr_White]

While moving;) Less flippantly; I shift my grip and hit it with the trigger finger. Video example:
http://youtu.be/i2bj_UA3gDg

Still pulled from that video: 11703

Nice reload! I think I remember that stage.

[Artemas2]

Strong hand thumb. Fingers are just awkward, and I have to compromise my grip too much.

[JonInWA]

After experimenting, using my trigger finger seems to work the best, and most natural on my VP40.

Best, Jon

[1slow]

On USP,HK45, P30, I put my thumb in the same position as on 1911, Glock etc... and drop the mag.

[BigT]

Not a VP9. But in the year I competed with a USP9 I used my trigger finger.

[Talionis]

Nice reload! I think I remember that stage.

Thanks Gabe! That was one of my favorite stages from Area 1 this year, as a matter of fact.

Back to the topic at hand for a moment: I have found that using the trigger finger is faster for me than the middle finger, though it does have higher risk associated with it. It is definitely possible to ND using the trigger finger technique if you are pushing speed. I know because I've done it; at a match no less.

[GJM]

Didn't conclude anything, but last night (using the medium backstrap) I experimented with pivoting the gun slightly, and using my trigger finger and thumb. Seemed more positive, but I need to live fire on the clock to compare that to just my trigger finger.

[Mr_White]

Thanks Gabe! That was one of my favorite stages from Area 1 this year, as a matter of fact.

Back to the topic at hand for a moment: I have found that using the trigger finger is faster for me than the middle finger, though it does have higher risk associated with it. It is definitely possible to ND using the trigger finger technique if you are pushing speed. I know because I've done it; at a match no less.

One of my favorites from that match too.

Yeah...I know a lot of people do successfully use trigger finger on the HK mag release. I know your story as well, so there is that. I'm slightly uncomfortable with the technique but nowhere near enough to even rail against it on the internet. More power to the index finger releasers!

[Peally]

I always use my index finger on the HKs, but I'm finding now with my transition to the VP9 from the HK45 that the paddles now seem to require me to break my grip a teeny bit to accurately hit the button. I think the HK45 had way larger paddles, and that's what I'm still used to after the years of shooting that thing exclusively.

Pretty unrelated, but I also notice that you need to be careful coming up on the gun with your strong hand after a reload as well. It might just be me (and maybe other heavy users like Talionis can chime in) but the VP9 seems unusually susceptible to off kilter sights from variable or unintentional grip pressure. If I don't grip it with the same pressure every time it seems my left hand can really throw my sight alignment to shit.

[Talionis]

One of my favorites from that match too.

Yeah...I know a lot of people do successfully use trigger finger on the HK mag release. I know your story as well, so there is that. I'm slightly uncomfortable with the technique but nowhere near enough to even rail against it on the internet. More power to the index finger releasers!

The ND was definitely an eye opener for me, and definitely prompted a great deal of reps reprogramming how I did things. I would certainly not advocate using the trigger finger for everyone, given the presence of such risk. In my case, it was a unique circumstance coming from a winter's worth of dry-firing for speed without confirming things in live fire. I do think middle finger (or thumb, for those without stubby thumbs like mine) does offer a lower risk alternative at a cost of a slight loss in speed.


I always use my index finger on the HKs, but I'm finding now with my transition to the VP9 from the HK45 that the paddles now seem to require me to break my grip a teeny bit to accurately hit the button. I think the HK45 had way larger paddles, and that's what I'm still used to after the years of shooting that thing exclusively.

Pretty unrelated, but I also notice that you need to be careful coming up on the gun with your strong hand after a reload as well. It might just be me (and maybe other heavy users like Talionis can chime in) but the VP9 seems unusually susceptible to off kilter sights from variable or unintentional grip pressure. If I don't grip it with the same pressure every time it seems my left hand can really throw my sight alignment to shit.

My recollection of my HK45C was that the paddles weren't necessarily bigger, but the grip was longer front to back (longer cartridge case), which put the paddle more directly in line with where my finger natural moves. I do shift my grip with the VP9 more than I did with the 45's when using my preferred medium backstrap. The large backstrap fixed that issue to a degree, but I wasn't as happy with everything else when using the large, so it wasn't worth it for me.

Curious what grip panels you are using, Peally. I found that the flattest (small) side panels along with gripping the gun hard took care of grip pressure/muzzle direction problems.

[Peally]

I haven't played with the HK45C long but it also had different releases than the full size gun. Regardless, you may be right in that the placement is also different. Just a minor learning curve is all.

I'd have to confirm to make sure but I believe I'm using the medium side panels with the small backstrap. Went with the small on the rear just to get rid of that hump in the grip. I found when squeezing with the strong hand that it was awkward for me and felt like I was putting all the squeezing force into the bottom half of the grip and nothing up top. Plus it feels better as far as wear and tear on my palms and wrists, but it's all anecdotal. If I have time I'll play "swap the panels" tonight.

Thanks for the input!

[breakingtime91]

I use my shooting hand thumb, just like a button.

[DEG]

Trigger finger here. I can manage thumb and trigger finger at the same time on a USPc, but not with the large back strap I have on the VP9 and P30s.

[GJM]

Trigger finger here. I can manage thumb and trigger finger at the same time on a USPc, but not with the large back strap I have on the VP9 and P30s.

Same here, need the medium to use thumb and trigger finger.

[MistWolf]

I use the trigger finger on the PPQ, VP9, HK, AR and FN-FAL. Thirty seconds on the PPQ destroyed thirty years of thumb button pushing muscle memory. Now, after decades of use and carry, when I pick up my 1911 I have to consciously shift mental gears to "thumb button". I don't have to think at all to release the mag of the PPQ or the AR. I don't even have to shift my grip

[Peally]

For shits and giggles I ended up swapping a medium backstrap back in versus the small for last night's dry fire. Arbitrarily feels like a smoother index and slightly easier mag release. Which sucks since I HATE THAT STUPID HUMP and the small is way more comfortable being jammed into my hand :D

[Dagga Boy]

For what it's worth, we never had a single issue, ND or problem with two decades of my old agencies SWAT cops on the USP 45F and officers using later series HK's. We also had no issues with officers who carried SIG or Glock in patrol and the USP on SWAT. I think a lot of that was due to getting most of the handling on the USP to a sub conscious over learned process.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I use my shooting hand middle finger.

I can use trigger finger or thumb, with a preference for thumb over trigger finger.

The middle finger works best for me over the different pistols I shoot with the paddle style release; P30, P2000, VP9 and PPS.

On the P30 and VP9, I find it a wash between trigger and middle fingers. Middle may be a bit slower, but I really like coming off the reload with my finger already in register. I have issues with repeatability or grip shift using the trigger finger on my P2000s(even with the 45 release) or the PPS.


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[MRW]

I use the trigger finger on the VP9 and the P30 when I still had it. It is definitely the fastest for me.