PDA

View Full Version : Surprising 9mm Reloading Cost Calculations



FPS
11-15-2016, 03:08 PM
I'm posting this for the benefit of the community and also inviting some criticism as well to use as a learning experience - either to show that I am missing something in my calculations or that I need to consider a different approach.

Bottom line - With my current system, I am basically paying more to reload my own 9mm range/plinking ammo than buying remanufactured. My current system and costs aren't perfect so feel free to comment.

Current costs:

Brass - Starline 9mm Brass is currently $130 per 1,000 (or .13 per case). I shot 300 rounds yesterday and was only able to retain 45% of the cases at the range. I started not picking up other people's brass due to in the past accidentally mixing in .380 rounds and also getting some split cases when reloading due to not knowing how often a case was shot. Decided I would try experimenting with buying brand new cases and seeing how long they would last.

With a 55% lost brass factor, I am able, if my calcs are correct, to get 1,811 shots out of every 1,000 cases (after 7 iterations of factoring 45% retention, you get down to 8 cases left). Basically that equals a cost of .07 per case for Starline Brass purchased new.

Primers - Typically average around .03 per primer locally when you include tax.

Powder - About .02 per round (5 grains of powder at around $30 per lb after tax. I could get this lower buying in bulk but not sure how much difference it would make).

Bullets - Currently using Xtreme plated 115 grain. Lots of 500 run about .08 a round.

Total Costs per round:

Brass - .07
Primers - .03
Bullets - .08
Powder - .02

Cost per round - .20

Remanufactured ammo with any shipping costs and tax is typically around .20 a round. Plus if I reuse 45% of the cases down the road, cost goes down further.

So here is my current thinking - buy 9mm remanufactured ammo (or low cost new ammo like CCI Blazer Brass) and shoot for awhile and accumulate cases. Once I have enough cases, use those to reload and basically eliminate (sort of) the brass cost in reloading.

So fire away - feel free to point out any inaccuracies, areas of improvement, and your own current thinking on reloading 9mm range/plinking ammo.

I may just switch to reloading revolver rounds exclusively until I build up enough 9mm cases since of course you retain 100% of the brass with revolvers.

Luke
11-15-2016, 03:10 PM
I stopped at the word starline. Have you lost your mind?


Edit: went back and finished it.

I've never bought brass, and I've never had any of the issues you describe. I can feel the instant a .380 makes it onto my shell plate, I stop and grab it and throw it in a bucket. Where is the brass splitting? It sounds like a lack of QC before loading is causing your issues.

Buy coated lead Bullets in bulk and get them for 6.5cents, switch to tight group or ETR7 and make that pound go farther for cheaper per pound prices. I'm at like 9 cents a round, for quality anmo tailored to my gun and desired PF.

Also, $130 will buy a ton of used brass. Like 10,000+

FPS
11-15-2016, 03:13 PM
I stopped at the word starline. Have you lost your mind?

I assume you've already decided on the answer to that question :) The purpose of posting was to learn a better way. Would you mind offering some helpful advice?

JAD
11-15-2016, 03:18 PM
Once fired 9mm brass is available from Southernbellebrass . Com for about half of what you're paying. Use a tarp when shooting and sort through your stuff; mark all your loaded rounds with a sharpie across the headstamp. You should retain 80% or better. Brass should therefore be costing you well under $0.02 a round. That brings you to $0.15 per round, or $150 per case. I don't shoot re manufactured ammo -- search this forum for mentions of Freedom Munitions to see why -- nor steel case stuff, so to me the competition is stuff like Geco for around $230 a case shipped. It's up to you to decide whether $80/k is worth your time. For me it's not; I reload .45, super, and .38.

MGW
11-15-2016, 03:21 PM
No doubt.

Your brass and bullets are killing you. Use whatever used brass you can find, sort it, clean it, and don't worry about it. You're loading 9mm not .308. I rarely find split cases. When I do it's usually nickle cases.

Extreme bullets are nice but if you are trying to save money go to a coated lead bullet. I've used Blue Bullets and Bayou and have been happy with both. There are other options.

One more thing. This won't save you a lot of money but what power are you using? 5.0 grains seems like a lot unless you are loading for major or using a powder I'm not familiar with. In the grand scheme of things powder doesn't have a big effect on your overall cost, but, if you can switch to say 231, HP38, even Bullseye, you will save a little money. I'm currently using 4.0 of 231 and it works really well. It's $22-$24 dollars a pound locally.

FPS
11-15-2016, 03:22 PM
Thanks. Cant spread a tarp at the indoor range so once it goes over the divider or forward of the line, it is gone. Shooting outdoors is inconvenient and adds a time cost to factor in but I appreciate the tips for when I am able.

Re: 380 rds, they dont creep in often but when they do, it just slows down the reloading process. Not a huge factor but I was trying to eliminate.

Re: split cases, only had a couple out of about 10,000 reloads, no idea what caused it, was assuming the brass I had been picking up reached the end of its lifespan.

jeep45238
11-15-2016, 03:23 PM
Use range pickup, and re-run the calculations. There's absolutely no need for star line brass unless you're loading to major (and even then, it's a lost brass situation). Seriously, range pickup, toss it in the tumbler for a few hours or let it run overnight. That's where you're messing up.

You should be doing some QC on your finished ammo, as sometimes you'll find a split case or .380 - I find it easier to hunt for .380's when it's completed if you don't have a shock bottle case gauge (does 100 at a time, finds any rounds that aren't perfect). Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're buying new brass because you don't trust your QC measures and are trying to eliminate a potential problem.

One way to address this while keeping speed is get a Mr. Bulletfeeder, and adjust the feeding die to barely get activated by 9x19 - .380 won't drop a bullet and will be painfully apparent, remove and move on. 9x18 occasionally drops the bullet - but again, it comes down to driving home that QC is important - and sometimes having the right tool helps dramatically.

It costs me less than $4.50 for a box of 50 9mm. I use range pickup, including after IPSC and IDPA matches. Bullets are home-cast from wheel weights. My buddy buys his bullets (I think Rainer, but might be Berries) and bulk 80 pounds of sorted brass online, and it costs him about 8 bucks per 50.

http://shockbottle.com

Snag one of those bad boys. I load it up, cull out anything that isn't a 9x19, put anything that doesn't fit into the practice pile, and then flip the gauge over into my box (bullets pointing up), then put another box on this and flip it (first box becomes a flipper, basically).

Luke
11-15-2016, 03:24 PM
How much are you shooting? If you don't shoot much it may be better to simplify your life and just buy it.

Also, idk of its 650xl specific, but if you can't feel a .380 in the sizing die I'd think your either not paying attention or going too fast.

FPS
11-15-2016, 03:53 PM
This won't save you a lot of money but what power are you using? 5.0 grains seems like a lot unless you are loading for major or using a powder I'm not familiar with

I'm just working up loads out of the manuals with the powder I have. I started reloading when components were hard to find after Newton so I didn't have ideal powder available. I think I started with SR4756 and once I ran out of that, moved on to Longshot since I found a ton for 10mm (its dirty and not ideal). I do have a couple pounds of HP-38 so I can switch over to that.

Current QC on finished ammo is spot checking with a 7 hole EGW chamber checker (was too cheap when starting out to buy the 100 hole version) and I check the primers for proper depth. Maybe the 100 rd case gauge is the way to go in order to eliminate some of the costs I am incurring on the front end.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're buying new brass because you don't trust your QC measures and are trying to eliminate a potential problem.

It was more of collecting advice here and there on the Internet than anything, trying to shore up my ignorance. It is hard to find guides that spell it all out for you when you are starting so I filled in the holes with my own research. Apparently I didn't fill them in in the most efficient way :)


How much are you shooting? If you don't shoot much it may be better to simplify your life and just buy it.

Between my wife and I, 600-1,000 rds a month depending on if we are taking a class or not. Basically a couple short reloading sessions a month takes care of it with the XL650 (don't want to spend more time than that for 9mm).


Also, idk of its 650xl specific, but if you can't feel a .380 in the sizing die I'd think your either not paying attention or going too fast.

I don't feel them, although I had one fly out of station 1 once having come down the tube upside down. I tend to watch the Hornady powder cop, maybe I should move to an RCBS lockout die (yeah, i want a powder checker) so my eyes can be a bit more freed up.

deputyG23
11-15-2016, 03:54 PM
Like others have said, it depends on how much you shoot. My per round cost for 9mm is about .11 each, excluding brass, for 124 grain plated FP bullets that run about 1134 fps out of a G19. I could save a cent and a half per round by using cast bullets but cleanup is a little more difficult and the Glock bore and chamber must be inspected at least every 100 rounds to detect leading. Dardas 127 grain cast bullets sized at .358 work fine in my G19 and my Beretta. No leading to speak of.

FPS
11-15-2016, 03:55 PM
No lead allowed on our indoor range (and the range I take classes at), coated are fine so that is probably my baseline.


and then flip the gauge over into my box (bullets pointing up)

That feature of the Shockbottle alone would probably pay for itself in time savings. Didn't know they could do that, thanks.

JCS
11-15-2016, 04:05 PM
Reloading is all about buying in bulk. At least that's what I've found out. If you're buying online buy as much as you can to avoid double dipping on shipping. Shipping is what can get ya.

bofe954
11-15-2016, 04:05 PM
If you are fine with just shooting the cheapest 115gr you can buy, and you only shoot a few thousand a year, you probably shouldn't reload. 9mm is one of the worst calibers to try and save money on.

I run a bullet feeder and it won't drop a bullet on a 380, if I don't notice it before that, and I usually do.

You can buy 6000 pieces of 9mm brass polished, shipped to your door for about $170, you can find cheaper too. So $28/K
I use 135gr bayou bullets, 3300 to your door for $240, again you could buy cheaper bullets or 115gr bullets or more quantity for a discount, but anyway $73/K
8lbs titegroup and 5K winchester primers for about $325 to your door. Again you might find cheaper. Call it $35/K primer (with shipping hazmat etc) and $22/K powder.

You get a fairly nice, low recoil round for $158/K and you haven't even used any brass twice.

You should be able to get 20K rounds out of your 6K brass pretty easily, so really brass cost could be $8.5 per K. If you bought bullets and stuff in a little higher quantities you should be able to get sub $120/K pretty easily. So if you shoot 10K a year you'll save about $1000/year which pays for a lot of reloading equipment.

If you're going to buy Starline, yeah just buy Blaser brass and keep the brass.

FPS
11-15-2016, 04:13 PM
If you are fine with just shooting the cheapest 115gr you can buy, and you only shoot a few thousand a year, you probably shouldn't reload. 9mm is one of the worst calibers to try and save money on.

I reload multiple calibers - .38 spc, .357, 10mm, .44mag, .45 Colt - all well worth reloading for. I bought the progressive reloader because it was absolutely not worth doing 9mm on a turret press. I also plan on moving some of my revolver stuff over to progressive in time as I value my time more than what a turret typically gives me.

Thanks for all the bulk sources and prices, that is really helpful.

HopetonBrown
11-15-2016, 04:17 PM
Brass - Starline 9mm Brass is currently $130 per 1,000 (or .13 per case).

1,000 wet tumbled brass cases for $33 delivered.

http://ammobrass.com/2001-9mm-brass-clean-1-000ct/

Flintsky
11-15-2016, 05:22 PM
Either get your brass free from pickups, or buy once fired for cheap from places like those mentioned or in forums like Cast Boolits.

With free brass, my best match grades loads are around $.15 per shot.......we are talking match primers, Vihtavuori powder, and FMJ bullets. My cheapest 9mm loads are $.05......that is from using cheap powder, free brass, regular primers, and my own cast bullets that I get from free wheel weights(usually can be gotten from small town tire places).

olstyn
11-15-2016, 06:15 PM
Just to add more weight to what others have said, brass should cost between zero and 4 cents/round. I started off initially by buying a 250 round box of ammo, and I pick up brass after teardown at just about every match I go to. I typically go home from an average match with 1.5-2x as much brass as the amount of rounds I shot in the match, because not everybody bothers to pick it up. Frankly, I could probably pick up double what I do, but I just don't need to. Obviously if you don't have time for that, your priorities may be different. That link HopetonBrown provided seems like a pretty reasonable deal if you're unable/unwilling to pick up range brass, given that it's been wet tumbled already. Even if half of it didn't pass your QC, you'd still be money ahead vs new brass, and wet tumbling means it's just as shiny and clean as new. :)

ranger
11-15-2016, 06:39 PM
Lots of good comments already. I pick up brass off range - I get some 380s, 40s, etc too but I just keep a coffee can by the press and throw the 380s in that can for later (once in a while I load all the 380s and 40s). Lucky for me a bunch of my shooting buddies buy cheap 9mm reloads and leave their brass. I buy Bayou coated 9mm 124 bullets in bulk - 3000+ at a time to get best shipping. I buy the cheapest primers I can find - nothing magic about 9mm practice reloads - lately been using S&B or Tula. I use WSF powder in 8 lb kegs (or Clays for 45 ACP) - note those are "shotgun" powders and I can often get good pricing on shotgun powders by buying with a group (often you can get "free shipping" because the same vendors that deliver clay pigeons to shotgun clubs also deliver powder and primers).

Here is another trick. If you have a "big box" sporting goods retailer near you - join their "club" or other way to register for discounts and coupons. In my case, I use Cabelas. They send me coupons - I just got one for $15 off $50 purchase. S&B small pistol primers are $24.99 per 1000 - so two boxes of S&B SP primers cost me about $53 (tax) -$15. When I checked out, the receipt has a survey - if I take the survey they give me $20 off $150 purchase. For the last year, I have been using these coupons on powder, primers, and projectiles (Berger, Barnes, and Hornady hunting bullets). It all adds up and keeps me from having to buy in super large quantities.

CCT125US
11-15-2016, 06:41 PM
1,000 wet tumbled brass cases for $33 delivered.

http://ammobrass.com/2001-9mm-brass-clean-1-000ct/

Why am I just now finding out about this? I have a stainless wet tumbler and buckets of brass, and that is a great deal.

Wobblie
11-15-2016, 07:24 PM
I reload multiple calibers - .38 spc, .357, 10mm, .44mag, .45 Colt - all well worth reloading for. I bought the progressive reloader because it was absolutely not worth doing 9mm on a turret press. I also plan on moving some of my revolver stuff over to progressive in time as I value my time more than what a turret typically gives me.

Thanks for all the bulk sources and prices, that is really helpful.
Ha..I load 9mm on a 40 year old RCBS Junior press.

LittleLebowski
11-15-2016, 10:23 PM
Why am I just now finding out about this? I have a stainless wet tumbler and buckets of brass, and that is a great deal.

This.

Also, belaboring the point but range pickup brass and coated cast lead bullets of your choice (I use Leatherhead 125s (http://leatherheadbullets.com/9-mm-125-grn-rn-500-ct/) but there's several good choices available).

GuanoLoco
11-15-2016, 10:42 PM
Sweet baby jeebus you are doing it wrong. ;). Then again for me it is all about quantity. I want to shoot 20-40K 9mm/year and not think much about it or so pend more time than I need to loading. Your needs will likely be different, but even in modest quantity like a few thousand rounds a year you should be able to do this:

#1: Brass - $$$ savings vs Starline. Go find a match and/or ranges where you can shoot and pick up discarded brass afterwards. Hand sort at first then get some shell sorter plates. Learn to clean and QC your brass. Magnet check it. Get a 40 cal MTM case. Pour handfuls of brass over it and shake. Case will mostly fall case head down. Flip those that don't. Eyeball case height from all 4 sides and pull 380's etc. Pull badly dinged case mouths, obstructed cases, etc. You will dog cuss and learn all sorts of things about mixed brass - but it will be WORTH it. I load and shoot 10's of thousands of rounds of mixed range brass and just finished 'pre-processing' well over 60K cases that I paid a grand total of $0 for.

#2 Bullets - Bayou bullets all day long, pick you fav weight. I like 135gr, $0.0725/bullet delivered all day long in case qty. About 10% less in bulk. 124gr is nominally cheaper than 124gr but takes a bit more powder and has a different feel.

#3 Powder - You should be able to get close to $0.01/rd with a good fast pistol powder. $20/lb, 7000 gr/lb, < 4gr/charge.

#4 Primers - $0.03 +/- delivered depending on quality/price/shipping/hazmat.

So - easily ~$0.12+/rd without getting at all crazy on bulk. Spend money on equipment that makes reloading more time efficient, spend time learning, and produce ever-better quality ammo.

FPS
11-16-2016, 12:33 AM
Sweet baby jeebus you are doing it wrong.

Fortunately the Starline purchase was a one time thing I was trying with 1,000 cases. I used to do range pickup, cases from remanufactured and CCI Blazer Brass. Now that I have some great suggestions to mitigate the problems I was trying to resolve with the Starline, it is going to be a short lived experiment :)

Wanted to say thanks to all that contributed, excellent thread with great tips

LittleLebowski
11-16-2016, 09:38 AM
1,000 wet tumbled brass cases for $33 delivered.

http://ammobrass.com/2001-9mm-brass-clean-1-000ct/

Swaged or crimped sorted out?

Hambo
11-16-2016, 10:35 AM
Swaged or crimped sorted out?

Removing crimps is another thing I don't do. There have been some crimped cases I couldn't prime without removing the crimp, but not many. Offered with my usual disclaimer that you'll be killed or wounded should you try this.

Edwin
11-17-2016, 01:11 AM
Here is my current load.

http://i.imgur.com/3rJcHDo.png

nycnoob
11-17-2016, 07:49 AM
Why does no one talk about the Mark VII Auto Reloader?

http://www.markvii-loading.com/

I know nothing about reloading, but its robotic automation of the process has a high cool factor.
I understand it does improve quality of output as well.

All I know about this I learned from Ben Stoegers Podcasts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ycsbn-mbEg) and from the company's YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLO26rp29-REreRW9C7fm2A/videos).

http://www.markvii-loading.com/assets/images/mark7full.png


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TZWNvBmBJJA/maxresdefault.jpg

jeep45238
11-17-2016, 08:23 AM
Mostly due to price and teething issues on 1050. I really want one, but it's a lot of upfront cash. For me it would allow simultaneous casting while ammo is getting loaded, but I haven't seen the 650 model running with a bullet feeder yet - or if they've even released the first batch.

It's on my radar, but for my piece of mind I want to put this on a 1050 after it's been proven rock solid. There's a lot of piece of mind to add a swager and powder checker with the automation - steps that get skipped on the 650 when running a bullet feeder.

45dotACP
11-17-2016, 08:33 AM
I have a turret press, so the time commitment to load 9mm is not worth the squeeze. I'll load .45 though. I buy once fired brass and then primers in bulk. Powder still hasn't shown up around me in 8lb jugs, so I get what I can.

I need a progressive press.

I started handloading because 41 mag is expensive as fuck.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Flintsky
11-17-2016, 01:05 PM
Why does no one talk about the Mark VII Auto Reloader?

http://www.markvii-loading.com/

I know nothing about reloading, but its robotic automation of the process has a high cool factor.
I understand it does improve quality of output as well.

All I know about this I learned from Ben Stoegers Podcasts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ycsbn-mbEg) and from the company's YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLO26rp29-REreRW9C7fm2A/videos).

http://www.markvii-loading.com/assets/images/mark7full.png


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TZWNvBmBJJA/maxresdefault.jpg

If you have perfect brass, then a fully automated machine works fine. However, with range pickups you never know how they will feed in your equipment. Some have crimped primer pockets that need to be swagged out, or just tight primer pockets in general depending on the brand. Brass has different alloy compositions, or may be +P, or some other variable that can slow down your equipment and if you force it, it can jam things up or break something. Either you need to do a full brass conditioning before put them in an automated reloading machine, or you need to use new brass. Personally I don't shoot enough to justify anything more elaborate than a Dillon 550b.

LittleLebowski
11-17-2016, 01:13 PM
If you have perfect brass, then a fully automated machine works fine. However, with range pickups you never know how they will feed in your equipment. Some have crimped primer pockets that need to be swagged out, or just tight primer pockets in general depending on the brand. Brass has different alloy compositions, or may be +P, or some other variable that can slow down your equipment and if you force it, it can jam things up or break something. Either you need to do a full brass conditioning before put them in an automated reloading machine, or you need to use new brass. Personally I don't shoot enough to justify anything more elaborate than a Dillon 550b.

Paging GuanoLoco, please pick up the white curtesy phone.

GuanoLoco
11-17-2016, 02:50 PM
No need to theorize, you have a forum member with first hand experience.

I started with a 550, but have gradually upgraded to a 1050, Mr. Bullet Feeder, Mark 7 1050 Autoloader Pro (1800 RPH), 1050-X (2400 RPH for brass processing etc.) and now a RF100 Small Primer Filler. I wet clean 9mm brass about 8000 cases at a time in a cement mixer, force-dry in an extra-tall food dehydrator, QC brass by hand, then 'pre-process' the brass (size/decap/swage) as a process that is wholly independent of loading.

Have no doubt - it works, but you will need to learn a lot about reloading in general, mixed range pickup brass processing, tooning a 1050, upgrades, etc. and log some time behind the wheel before you will be a baller-class reloader. Range pickup brass and bulk purchases of components to maximize discounts, sales & minimize shipping and Hazmat fees help keep costs low. I can maybe do $0.11 (NOT $0.011) ea with Federal primers (when available), a little cheaper with harder primers.

Productivity wise it is all about preparation and experience. With the machine tooned (including for any software/firmware changes, equipment or setting changes) and preprocessed cases I can sustain MAYBE 1600/hr +/- right now running solo. When things are realy running smooth that includes primer loading and MAYBE case gauging ammo in a Hundo. Here's the trick: It's all about machine reliability. ANY hiccups and you spend downtime detecting/fixing/tooning and not cranking rounds. So sometimes it is better to toon for reliability vs. throughput, or to serialize activities like case gauging (or delegate to a loading partner or do afterwards while watching Netflix) so you can focus on keeping everything running clean.

nycnoob
11-17-2016, 02:58 PM
I can maybe do $0.011 ea with Federal primers (when available), a little cheaper with harder primers.


That's gotta be a typo.


Did you mean $0.11 per finished round? That's quite incredible.

LittleLebowski
11-17-2016, 03:01 PM
That's gotta be a typo.


Did you mean $0.11 per finished round? That's quite incredible.

Some here wish that GL would copy over some of his posts on this topic from another forum. Some do...

nycnoob
11-17-2016, 03:04 PM
Some here wish that GL would copy over some of his posts on this topic from another forum.

If he does not want to copy,
I would not mind a link to another forum,
I know how to follow and read . . .

GuanoLoco
11-17-2016, 03:12 PM
That's gotta be a typo.


Did you mean $0.11 per finished round? That's quite incredible.

Ya got me. I'm bad for typos but I usually go back periodically and view posts and edit them. PF is annoying because often I want to correct typing mistakes and brain farts but the edit window has expired.

I've posted quite a bit on Doodie Project as I have gone through my process with the 1050 and I'm not inclined to copy/repost it all because you can (a) read it there and (b) I tend to steadily evolve my equipment and processes as I learn more or things like software/firmware upgrades change things or I upgrade my equipment/dies/shell plates/whatever.

I'm happy to answer questions though. Making a modest attempt to stay on topic with this thread I think it is fair to consider not only the expense of components but also the opportunity cost of your time. I will give you some quick math on equipment though: Assume a 1050 + MBF + Mark7 will cost you on the order of $5K+ accoutrements. Assume in rough numbers you can save about a dime a round with reloads. 50K reloads will PAY for the $5K startup costs in savings, and you will get to shoot and train a LOT more. And you might find that you are a lot more popular with your shooting buddies, perhaps even more popular that you have time/patience for. Buddies are good though - my current rig is great operated solo but REALLY shines as a 'crew-served weapon system'.

Per request: (fair warning, The Doodie Project is a largely self-moderated forum of USPSA gamer trolls and general riff-raff, it may take some getting used to)

http://www.doodieproject.com/
Search: GuanoLoco + 1050, Mark 7, Brass Monkey, etc.

There is more, but here are some 'epic' threads.

Tooning up a 1050 (http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/2589-tuning-up-a-1050)
Mark 7 Hotness (http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/4259-mark-7-hotness)
Brass Monkey that Funky Monkey (http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/4421-brass-monkey-that-funky-monkey)
1050 for Dummies (http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/5029-1050-for-dummies/)

taadski
11-17-2016, 03:38 PM
NOW, I understand why Luke is your bitch. 😈 :p

GuanoLoco
11-17-2016, 03:54 PM
NOW, I understand why Luke is your bitch. �� :p

That's just natural. ;).

He's loading his own ammo on a 650, although I share knowledge and he is getting in on some bulk ordering.

Then again, he has asked me to bring him (1) a hammer spring (2) match ammo for Tatiana because he apparently hasn't had time to prepare or reload for tonight's match. Squad mom to the rescue! I'll be setting up the stages while squad son monkeys with his gun...

nycnoob
11-17-2016, 05:01 PM
http://www.doodieproject.com/
Search: GuanoLoco + 1050, Mark 7, Brass Monkey, etc.


Thanks for all the reading. Very interesting! luckally we are slow at work.

Luke
11-17-2016, 06:01 PM
I refer to him as papa guano.

LittleLebowski
11-17-2016, 06:46 PM
I need a squad mom :(

CCT125US
11-18-2016, 07:19 AM
Midway has Black Friday deal on CCI with no hazmat

http://www.midwayusa.com/promo/no-hazmat-on-select-cci-primers?cm_mmc=pe_offer_vat-_-cci_no_hazmat-_-campaign-_-20161118

Hambo
11-18-2016, 08:12 AM
That's gotta be a typo.


Did you mean $0.11 per finished round? That's quite incredible.

I'm at $0.13 and that's paying retail store prices for powder.

BJXDS
11-18-2016, 08:59 AM
It seems the general savings for reloading 9mm is about 50%, and a free brass helps out, as in pick up range brass.

Are all 9mm brass cases the same?
What do you do about reloading Freedom Munitions brass?
So do you reload them as usual or do you throw them away? Separating them is a HUGE PITA. The time spent make even half price ammo Not worth it, to me.

FM seems to use a proprietary case design. A stepped case if you will. I have read info( Some conflicting) on how the volume of powder it holds is different, and if the volume is very close to a standard case, the design may generate a different pressure.

A couple of years ago when the cost of ammo increased and component availability was limited I use to shoot a lot their reloads, the cost of the reloaded ammo in conjunction with the brass buyback program was cost efficient for decent ammo, but I have had some minor issues in the past, and the cost difference is just not worth it.

JCS
11-18-2016, 10:09 AM
Not the best thread to ask this but I don't believe it's worthy of its own thread so forgive me for posting off topic.

I accidentally bought small pistol magnum primers and can't return them. I wasn't going to use them but read somewhere that guys have used them on 9mm. Has anyone done this? Or is it recipe for disaster?

BehindBlueI's
11-18-2016, 10:19 AM
I quit reading replies after the first few posts, so if this has been covered, forgive me.

If you let your shooting buddies know you reload and need brass, you'll likely get baggies of it next time you meet up. I've been gifted or sold on the cheap a ton of pistol brass. The only thing I've ever bought Starline for is .45 Colt to load up to Ruger only loads. It's sort of a rare caliber among the circle of people I know, and it was worth it just to pony up and buy new. For 9mm, buy used or acquire from friends or the ground.

Duelist
11-18-2016, 10:42 AM
I reload on a Redding T7 turret. Sometimes, it's worth the time to load 9mm. Sometimes, it isn't. It's always worth it to load .38 and .357, sometimes worth it to load range ammo for the 5.56, always worth it to load soft point 5.56, always worth it to load 6.8, and always worth it to load .243 (my rifle has had exactly one box of factory ammo fired through it, ever).

Saving half the money on 9mm is awesome, if I have time to do it. When 9mm cost 10-12 bucks/100, I never did it. Now that it's >$20/100, and I can load for ~.11/round, I do it when time is worth less than the money. If I get into a 1050 setup, though, I'll be a freaking 9mm factory.

GuanoLoco
11-18-2016, 10:55 AM
It seems the general savings for reloading 9mm is about 50%, and a free brass helps out, as in pick up range brass.

Are all 9mm brass cases the same?
What do you do about reloading Freedom Munitions brass?
So do you reload them as usual or do you throw them away? Separating them is a HUGE PITA. The time spent make even half price ammo Not worth it, to me.

FM seems to use a proprietary case design. A stepped case if you will. I have read info( Some conflicting) on how the volume of powder it holds is different, and if the volume is very close to a standard case, the design may generate a different pressure.

A couple of years ago when the cost of ammo increased and component availability was limited I use to shoot a lot their reloads, the cost of the reloaded ammo in conjunction with the brass buyback program was cost efficient for decent ammo, but I have had some minor issues in the past, and the cost difference is just not worth it.

The FM/IMT/AmmoLoad headstamp 'modestly' stepped 9mm brass has reloaded and shot just fine for me in significant volume. I've had no issues with stepped cases to date. I have READ about case head separations with stepped brass but not experienced it, and I have had (rare) case head blowouts or separations with 'premium' brass. I no longer bother to sort them out.

The recent exception to this is the new MAXXTech cases. These are so severely stepped that a single charge looks like a double charge and getting to the seating depth required for your gun chamber/bullet/OAL goal may not be possible. With my Mark 7 rig the MAXXTech cases have caused a clutch stoppage because IIRC the size/decapping die and/or swage backup rod couldn't handle the severe step and (2) heart stoppage when I spotted what appeared to be a double charge. I now remove these cases in my brass QC process.

Again, if you pour your 9mm cases onto a 40 cal plastic MTM case while shaking it, most will fall case head down and it is easy to inspect for stepped cases, obstructions, damaged case mouths, stepped cases, berdan primed cases, etc. QC to your combined level of anal-retentiveness, experience and equipment.

LittleLebowski
11-18-2016, 10:56 AM
That stepped case thing looks ridiculous.

camsdaddy
11-18-2016, 11:01 AM
I have been reloading since the first of the year. I really wish I had gotten a progressive.

JCS
11-18-2016, 12:20 PM
I have been reloading since the first of the year. I really wish I had gotten a progressive.

This is me as well.

taadski
11-18-2016, 01:57 PM
If you let your shooting buddies know you reload and need brass, you'll likely get baggies of it next time you meet up.

I guess one suffers the company one keeps. Most of my shooting buddies try and pilfer all my brass. :p

Alas, my stash gets replenished with the agency used brass coffers when needed. That said, I have no qualms what-so-ever with range pickup stuff. I do a rough sort of dirty cases using dillon trays. Then after cleaning, usually while doing a light case lube (spray), I sift 100 or so at a time through a .380 tray. I have to say those little fuckers mess with my loading zen, hence the last step.

I reload on a lowly 650. It was my first press. I learned on it and regret that decision not at all.


t

GuanoLoco
11-18-2016, 05:04 PM
Nothing wrong with a 650. I obviously reload lots and one thing I never regretted was the $ I spent on reloading equipment or efficiency.

Edwin
11-18-2016, 05:16 PM
That's gotta be a typo.


Did you mean $0.11 per finished round? That's quite incredible.

Did you not see this? https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?23033-Surprising-9mm-Reloading-Cost-Calculations&p=525803&viewfull=1#post525803

LittleLebowski
11-18-2016, 05:16 PM
I keep looking at Hornady LnLs and Dillon SicksFitties and then I get PMs from GuanoLoco calling me "PoorFag!" :(

ranger
11-18-2016, 05:28 PM
It seems the general savings for reloading 9mm is about 50%, and a free brass helps out, as in pick up range brass.

Are all 9mm brass cases the same?
What do you do about reloading Freedom Munitions brass?
So do you reload them as usual or do you throw them away? Separating them is a HUGE PITA. The time spent make even half price ammo Not worth it, to me.

FM seems to use a proprietary case design. A stepped case if you will. I have read info( Some conflicting) on how the volume of powder it holds is different, and if the volume is very close to a standard case, the design may generate a different pressure.

A couple of years ago when the cost of ammo increased and component availability was limited I use to shoot a lot their reloads, the cost of the reloaded ammo in conjunction with the brass buyback program was cost efficient for decent ammo, but I have had some minor issues in the past, and the cost difference is just not worth it.

A lot of my shooting buddies buy reloads in volume and I end with the "stepped" brass. I had a couple of reloads using 135 bullets that ended up bulged around the step. I got anal and start sorting out the stepped brass. I switched back to 124 Bayous and had no more issues with the stepped brass so I just load it quit worrying about. I gauge ammo for a match and just shoot it right off the press in practice. I guess the only 9mm brass I do not use is Blazer Aluminum and Steel case and anything berdan primed.

ranger
11-18-2016, 05:31 PM
Not the best thread to ask this but I don't believe it's worthy of its own thread so forgive me for posting off topic.

I accidentally bought small pistol magnum primers and can't return them. I wasn't going to use them but read somewhere that guys have used them on 9mm. Has anyone done this? Or is it recipe for disaster?

Load it up. During some of the primer shortages I had to dip into my small pistol magnum stash to keep my 9mm loaded. Back in my "Dark Side" USPSA OPEN days, I was running 9x21 major using Small Pistol Magnum and even Small Rifle primers. Note that if you have a racy light trigger it might struggle to ignite the "harder" small pistol magnum primers. At your own risk, etc.

ranger
11-18-2016, 05:38 PM
Team, I keep seeing references to Dillon 650s and 1050s. Those are GREAT presses. BUT, if you mainly reload pistol and if you mainly load one caliber - say 9mm! - by all means consider getting a Dillon Square Deal and just get started - the best is the enemy of good enough. Worst case you can sell the Square Deal for most of what you paid for it later. The 550 is awesome if you change calibers or load rifle. I have one Dillon SDB in 45 and one Dillon 550 that is focused on 9mm with a quick change to 40. I would love to find one more used 550 and set it up as a dedicated rifle press with large primer and the shell holder for the "308" family to load 243, 260, 308, 3006 and so one. A progressive press is great for pistol but you do not need automatic case feeders, etc. to get started.

Luke
11-18-2016, 07:57 PM
I've only seen videos but a square deal looks HORRIBLE compared to a 650.

I say if your only loading 9 DONT get ANYTHING other than a 650 or 1050

JCS
11-18-2016, 08:01 PM
I've only seen videos but a square deal looks HORRIBLE compared to a 650.

I say if your only loading 9 DONT get ANYTHING other than a 650 or 1050

What's so bad about it?

Luke
11-18-2016, 08:03 PM
The videos I've seen it looks like it takes a long time to load ammo on it. If you already have a slow press why would you upgrade to another slow press. It might be a little better, but your half way to a 650 at that point.

Mitch
11-18-2016, 08:59 PM
Auto indexing without at least a case feeder doesn't speed things up much. Proprietary dies? Hard pass.

If you're only loading 1 pistol caliber save up and get a 650 with a case feeder. I wish I would have done that instead of the 550 personally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

olstyn
11-18-2016, 09:42 PM
Auto indexing without at least a case feeder doesn't speed things up much.

Well, vs a 550, it's one less action you have to do with your hands at every cycle of the press. Even if it's not precisely faster, it's smoother. That said, I agree about the SDB; if you can even vaguely conceive of loading more than one caliber, it's just a waste, and similarly, if even a hint of a want for a case feeder and/or bullet feeder is somewhere in your consciousness, there will always be a nagging voice in the back of your mind making you regret not springing for at least a 550, a LnL, or a 650.

GuanoLoco
11-18-2016, 10:45 PM
Well, vs a 550, it's one less action you have to do with your hands at every cycle of the press. Even if it's not precisely faster, it's smoother. That said, I agree about the SDB; if you can even vaguely conceive of loading more than one caliber, it's just a waste, and similarly, if even a hint of a want for a case feeder and/or bullet feeder is somewhere in your consciousness, there will always be a nagging voice in the back of your mind making you regret not springing for at least a 550, a LnL, or a 650.

If you are reloading in any volume and you value your time than that nagging voice can get pretty loud after a while.

If not, a 550 will do the job but I found 300 rounds an evening session about right for me, 500 and I was quite tired. I keep a 550 for mixed calibers and within a few hundred rounds I am over it.

How much do you shoot a week or month? How many live fire training sessions? Planning any big classes where you will shoot many hundreds or thousands of rounds? Can you egt ahead of our consumption or are you going to be stressing about loading enough ammo for the next even just-in-time?

mmc45414
11-19-2016, 08:40 AM
Removing crimps is another thing I don't do. There have been some crimped cases I couldn't prime without removing the crimp, but not many. Offered with my usual disclaimer that you'll be killed or wounded should you try this.

I have 45 cases I have been loading forever that have/had the crimp. It can occasionally be clunky but not that big a deal.

I bought some "raw" 9mm brass from Grizzly Targets. Their site says they are getting out of the components business, but still have 5gal buckets of raw 9mm brass, estimated to be 8,000 cases, for $139. To OH shipping was $29, but that is still right at two cents.

It was for sure raw, and some of them were crimped. I have not loaded them yet but I experimented with seating a few primers and they seem to not be a problem on the 650.

olstyn
11-19-2016, 09:21 AM
If you are reloading in any volume and you value your time than that nagging voice can get pretty loud after a while.

If not, a 550 will do the job but I found 300 rounds an evening session about right for me, 500 and I was quite tired. I keep a 550 for mixed calibers and within a few hundred rounds I am over it.

I'm nowhere near your volume levels, but even so, that nagging voice is there. I have a LnL, and I'm quite happy with it, but I do want a case feeder so it'll be faster. Someday I'll succumb to the desire to smooth out/speed up the process. The budget currently says no, though, cause I'm poor, and unlike the press itself, a case feeder won't save money in the long term, so I'm resisting the urge for now. Probably a present to myself when/if I get a better job, or something along those lines.

dbateman
11-19-2016, 11:39 PM
There's a lot of good info in this thread.

There's two things I'd like to add.

1. I don't count the cost of my brass when working out the cost of reloading.
I just chalk that up to a one off expense, my current batch of 38super brass is probably 8-9 years old, I don't know how many firings are on the cases but they're still going strong.

I am about to replace my batch of 38super brass but only because I've lost X amount and I just feel like replacing it, mind you I've had my replacement brass sitting here ready to go for a year or so...

2. The Dillon Square Deal B, I own one.
It was the first progressive press I owned, for what they cost I think they're a pretty good press.
Sure they are no 650 or 1050 but if someone is not shooting large volumes per year and has some spare time a Square Deal would serve them well.

dsb
11-20-2016, 07:47 AM
There's a lot of good info in this thread.

There's two things I'd like to add.

1. I don't count the cost of my brass when working out the cost of reloading.
I just chalk that up to a one off expense, my current batch of 38super brass is probably 8-9 years old, I don't know how many firings are on the cases but they're still going strong.

I am about to replace my batch of 38super brass but only because I've lost X amount and I just feel like replacing it, mind you I've had my replacement brass sitting here ready to go for a year or so...

Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind, how much brass vs. how many rounds per year are you talking about? For example, you have 10k pieces of brass that you've reloaded twice a year for 8 - 9 years?

Thanks,
Dave Bateman (the one in GA)

LittleLebowski
11-20-2016, 09:54 AM
I'm nowhere near your volume levels, but even so, that nagging voice is there. I have a LnL, and I'm quite happy with it, but I do want a case feeder so it'll be faster. Someday I'll succumb to the desire to smooth out/speed up the process. The budget currently says no, though, cause I'm poor, and unlike the press itself, a case feeder won't save money in the long term, so I'm resisting the urge for now. Probably a present to myself when/if I get a better job, or something along those lines.

How do you like your LnL?

Mitch
11-20-2016, 10:20 AM
Every time one of these threads comes up, I get really close to ordering a 650.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SPDGG
11-20-2016, 01:32 PM
fwiw, random info. feedback thoughts: [hopefully it helps someone]

I haven't gone through all the posts/pages but 9mm should run approx. .10-.14 per round, including bullet, powder, primer, purchased 1x fired brass - used for approx. 8 cycles.
(Yes, I know you can run brass longer, but that is the calculation I used. I lose it before it gets to 8 anyways)
- This is running coated 124 HCL on the low side, & MG 124 JHP on the high side.
- Buy Bulk, stock when anything is on sale & free HAZMAT, etc.
^ This includes Presses ; )

Presses:
I've had/have a Single, Turret, Dillon SDB, Hornady LnL, Dillon 650 for a number of years [Still own these]

* Single/Turret press is always great to have for random case prep or pulling bullets when you setup a press/caliber.

* SDB is just as fast as a LnL or 650 w/o case feeder
- The proprietary dies turn people off, but people do not factor in the cost of what a quality set of carbide dies cost, tool head, inserts, shellplate, etc. for a conversion.
^ Those items added up can be half of what a "used" SDB cost for a dedicated caliber. You can't beat the size of the SDB & it being a progressive
- I'll take a SDB for pistol over a 550 setup for pistol anyday

- I run a 1x small primer SDB & 1x large primer SDB for smaller volume [.380, .38 Spl., .45ACP]

Which 5x Station Progressive "with" case feeder: LnL vs 650XL?
Ans.: Winner every time is the 650XL
Reason: Less finicky & the case feeder actually does its thing well

LnL Pros:
Cost, its a great brass prep progressive, depriming, trimming, swaging .223, etc.
Easy to setup for various calibers & fast switch over.
[The 650 I have is a dedicated 9mm setup, so it doesn't get touched]

LnL Cons:
- Adjusting this/that, but once you work it out - not bad. When they first released it the shell plates to indexing was off, but seems they have ironed out a lot of it.

- Inline Fabrication for everything press lighting, ergo handles, mounts
Tried Wet tumbling - got over it.
Reason: Have little ones, wet tumbling to avoid lead particles being airborne, but I just went back to dry tumbling in the shed & separate where they don't play.
- Two step dry tumble with Walnut, Polish & Mineral Spirits & Corn, Polish, & Mineral Spirits
^ Pick up media from Grainger, feed store
- Setup on an outdoor plug in timer so I can set it and forget it. [Please tumble & separate outdoors or in a well ventilated area]

*If I could only have 1x setup "per" caliber:
- Dillon 650 w/ Case Feeder & Mr. Bullet Feeder [Yes, you lose the powder check station, but I visually inspect every case after powder drop anyways]
^ I only load as fast as I can "safely", means pretty darn slow - not a race - visual inspection of every powder drop. Should have my pinhole/bore camera video to tablet setup this winter so I don't have to look down to inspect powder in case.

Dream setup:
1050 w/ case feeder w/ Mr. Bullet w/ Mark 7 Autodrive - hopefully in the next year or two

JCS
11-20-2016, 02:35 PM
If someone was only loading 9mm and let's say 1000 rds per month. Is the Dillon sdb or 550b the way to go if you can't afford 650 w/ casefeeder?

ranger
11-20-2016, 02:49 PM
If someone was only loading 9mm and let's say 1000 rds per month. Is the Dillon sdb or 550b the way to go if you can't afford 650 w/ casefeeder?

Used SDB. As stated above, when you look at presses look at the "total" cost when you add carbide dies, and on and on. Used SDB is the way to go for one caliber and only pistol. In honor of this thread I have been watching used SDBs and 550s on eBay.

SPDGG
11-20-2016, 02:52 PM
If someone was only loading 9mm and let's say 1000 rds per month. Is the Dillon sdb or 550b the way to go if you can't afford 650 w/ casefeeder?

My vote:

Square Deal B, ready to roll out of the box. Dillon Lifetime Warranty & CS is Top Notch [I sound like a Dillon ad, but it's all facts]
- Extra Primer Tubes [Prefilled]
- Add at the min, a Inline Fabrication Led Light or a LED BBQ Light over the Left Side to inspect powder drop
^ It's already pre-adjusted by Dillon for you : ) . . . . Just fine tune OAL based on Bullet profile

You can roll approx. 250-400 rnds/hr depending on your pace and prep. [2.5-4 hours of actually loading per month for 1K rounds = easy, no problem]
- I like to have brass tumbled/polished ahead of time.
- I still check my powder drop ave. over 10x drops to start then, load away.

* * * As stated, always always - Check your powder in case before topping off with a bullet. DO NOT become complacent with powder/reloading. Most if not all errors are from the monkey in front of the press

To add:
- Dillon now makes a mount that sits under the SDB to place empty cases in front of the loaded/finished case bin. Its $20
BUT, you can always drill some holes and bolt it together or zip tie it. Makes placing a case on the shell plate faster
- If you use a wood bench, screw in a sheet metal ledge from HD that fits the bin, That works as well.

BTW: I hate reloading . . . . time I'd rather be shooting, but there is no free lunch

LittleLebowski
11-20-2016, 03:55 PM
If someone was only loading 9mm and let's say 1000 rds per month. Is the Dillon sdb or 550b the way to go if you can't afford 650 w/ casefeeder?

I can do near 450 rds of 9mm (if not more, using pre-filled tubes, god bless the Vibra Prime (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BQ6A3Y0/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B00BQ6A3Y0&linkId=d3dede3a80f3807d606531629d390426)) with my 550 plus I can switch over to .223 or .300blk in about 5 minutes (using dedicated toolheads for each). I think the 550 is a no brainer for you.

LostDuke
11-20-2016, 04:25 PM
My vote:

Square Deal B, ready to roll out of the box. Dillon Lifetime Warranty & CS is Top Notch [I sound like a Dillon ad, but it's all facts]
- Extra Primer Tubes [Prefilled]
- Add at the min, a Inline Fabrication Led Light or a LED BBQ Light over the Left Side to inspect powder drop
^ It's already pre-adjusted by Dillon for you : ) . . . . Just fine tune OAL based on Bullet profile

You can roll approx. 250-400 rnds/hr depending on your pace and prep. [2.5-4 hours of actually loading per month for 1K rounds = easy, no problem]
- I like to have brass tumbled/polished ahead of time.
- I still check my powder drop ave. over 10x drops to start then, load away.

* * * As stated, always always - Check your powder in case before topping off with a bullet. DO NOT become complacent with powder/reloading. Most if not all errors are from the monkey in front of the press

To add:
- Dillon now makes a mount that sits under the SDB to place empty cases in front of the loaded/finished case bin. Its $20
BUT, you can always drill some holes and bolt it together or zip tie it. Makes placing a case on the shell plate faster
- If you use a wood bench, screw in a sheet metal ledge from HD that fits the bin, That works as well.

BTW: I hate reloading . . . . time I'd rather be shooting, but there is no free lunch


I have owned a 550b, which I sold upon leaving the North East. When I realized I had also sold all my non 9mm guns (felt overwhelmed by STUFF, too many different mags holsters calibers bullets man I was working not enjoying myself anymore) the choice fell on the Square Deal b and I have not regretted it a moment. For a pistol caliber, the SDB works actually slightly better than the 550, the auto indexing helps a lot if you know how what to look for and have a feel for the machine.

Here in Austin my set up is totally zen, and am enjoying reloading more than ever. I don't calculate my costs that closely but I am in the ballpark of many, since I pick up my brass and shoot a mix of Xtreme, Acme and Blue Bullets loaded with TG.

I have bought in bulk pooling up with other shooting buddies more than once, and so we save even more on shipping and hazmat fees. Being member of a club helps a lot, sometimes I go for a practice and there is a little brass beach of
super clean brass obviously shot only once, easy to pick and so conveniently placed. I get so much this way that I can afford to ignore brass during matches which improves my concentration.

This is my current setup, in a corner of the green room overlooking the yard. I run about 250-350 rounds per session of an hour of so listening to podcasts, or simply Bach. Life is good.


11800

ranger
11-20-2016, 04:38 PM
In the spirit of this thread, I have been watching used Square Deals and 550s on eBay and the local "classifieds". In Georgia, we have "Outdoors Trader" or "ODT" that lists guns, ammo, accessories plus myriad other outdoor stuff. I just returned from meeting someone to buy a used Dillon 550, two quick change tool heads, two Dillon powder drops, three sets of dies, plus myriad other reloading small tools and 2000 Federal Small Pistol primers for great price. I have one 550 currently set up for small primers used mostly as a 9mm press with a quick change head for 40. Going to set up this second "new to me" 550 in large primer and use it for 45ACP and 260/6.5G/6.5CM/308/3006 rifle. Just need to find a deal on a "Strong Mount".

FPS
11-20-2016, 04:47 PM
Watch Inline Fabrication over Black Friday and Cyber Monday for deals on strong mounts, lighting, etc. Everything I have bought from them is as fantastic as people say. Fast shipping too.

olstyn
11-20-2016, 05:59 PM
How do you like your LnL?

As I've said in other threads before, it's not perfect, but I'm happy with it, and I'd make the same decision again. My budget couldn't really justify a 650 and Lee products were not under consideration, so it came down to 550 vs LnL, and between the LnL die bushings to change calibers quickly, 5 stations vs 4, and autoindexing vs not, it was pretty easy to choose the LnL. The only downside I've noticed is that, as SPDGG said, it can require a little bit of adjusting/tuning when first set up (mine's timing was just a little bit off), and as I've said in other threads before, the primer slide, while it works well, is somewhat vulnerable; stray grains of powder can cause it to stick/jam. As long as I keep an eye on that, it runs smoothly.

How about you? Are you happy with your 550, or are you looking for other options?

JCS
11-20-2016, 07:11 PM
I suppose I could add the lnl to my list.

SDB is going to be a little cheaper but I think the upgrade capability of the 550 is something to consider as well. Dillon has such a good following I feel like I'll regret not going blue.

GuanoLoco
11-20-2016, 07:36 PM
My only comment is the limited upgradeability of the 550 vs 650. 550 is nice for lots of calibers inexpensively. With the basic 650 you have options for a case feeder, bullet feeder, swager and even automation.

Consider that in the future you might gift your self an upgrade every year or two.

MGW
11-20-2016, 08:34 PM
Lots of people watching eBay here. I wonder what that chances are of someone here out bidding another forum member on a press?

Do Dillon presses ever go on sale? I'm not in a hurry to pick one up but I do want to buy one. Early spring is probably my cut off date.

mmc45414
11-20-2016, 08:38 PM
SDB is going to be a little cheaper
It is like $45 cheaper, but included the dies. So if you might already have dies it is pretty close.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Malamute
11-20-2016, 08:39 PM
I had a SDB for a while, at the same time I came into a 550. The 550 was easier to add more calibers to for less money, but I did like the SDB. If money were no object, the simplest thing may be to buy a new SDB for each caliber you used much and leave them set up (A buddy used to buy a new shotshell loader when he wanted a different load and just leave them all set up). I don't need any more loading speed than the SDBs or 550 offer. The 550 is a good unit for me though, and works with rifle cartridges. Want to get it going for 30-30 at some point.

Mitch
11-20-2016, 08:51 PM
For you guys looking for used Dillons, I'm this close to putting my 550 up to help fund a 650. This happens to me about once a year, I may go with it now [emoji35]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Luke
11-20-2016, 08:56 PM
My buddy has a MINT 650 with lots of goodies for sale for $850

dbateman
11-21-2016, 05:48 AM
Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind, how much brass vs. how many rounds per year are you talking about? For example, you have 10k pieces of brass that you've reloaded twice a year for 8 - 9 years?

Thanks,
Dave Bateman (the one in GA)

I started off with 1500 Remington cases then added a couple of hundred more, what's happening with work kind of dictates how often I do a loading cycle. It's usually every month or two.
I still have about 1000 cases give or take a bit.

I got a good deal on some star line brass, so I'm going to swap over to that.

dbateman
11-21-2016, 07:11 AM
If someone was only loading 9mm and let's say 1000 rds per month. Is the Dillon sdb or 550b the way to go if you can't afford 650 w/ casefeeder?

For me SDB auto indexing sold me over the 550, for someone only loading one caliber and fairly low volume it's not a bad press.
But like others have mentioned there's not a lot of room to grow, you can't load rifle ect on it.

Once I worked out the SDB I could load fairly quickly, I would slot a piece of brass in at the same time is was placing the projectile.
I went to 1050s after the SDB because bullet feeder and case feeder.

FPS
11-25-2016, 01:16 PM
Posting this here too. Inline Fabrication having 15% off sitewide for Black Friday, coupon code Black2016 - http://inlinefabrication.com/

That's the lowest I've seen their stuff.

JCS
11-25-2016, 08:35 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. I'm going to sell my current press and buy a 550b after Christmas. I'll try to buy used first if I can.

Luke
11-25-2016, 10:13 PM
Look on Enos, and post a WTB there

Edwin
11-26-2016, 12:54 AM
Is it worth getting the Mark 7 autodrive for the 650 or should I sell my 650 to buy a 1050 with a Mark 7 LTE?

New load driving the cost down a bit more.

http://i.imgur.com/Cowqk3H.png

GuanoLoco
11-26-2016, 01:03 AM
Is it worth getting the Mark 7 autodrive for the 650 or should I sell my 650 to buy a 1050 with a Mark 7 LTE?

New load driving the cost down a bit more.

http://i.imgur.com/Cowqk3H.png

You left out the key pieve of information - VOLUMES.

For me, automation is FIRST about reliability, and not having a swage station for 9mm seems a weak point.

Edwin
11-26-2016, 01:41 AM
Sorry, I do about 10-12k a year or 1k a month.

My shoulder hurts after about 200 rounds on my 650 so getting it automated would be a huge quality of life improvement. I could probably sell my 650 with all the parts and accessories for almost the price of a 1050 press alone so really it's just the cost of the 1050 autodrive.

GuanoLoco
11-26-2016, 10:20 AM
Sorry, I do about 10-12k a year or 1k a month.

My shoulder hurts after about 200 rounds on my 650 so getting it automated would be a huge quality of life improvement. I could probably sell my 650 with all the parts and accessories for almost the price of a 1050 press alone so really it's just the cost of the 1050 autodrive.

My shoulders are good, but my elbows were trashed with tendinitis.

A significant part of choosing my unautomated 1050 was being able to prime on the downstroke. It was supposed to be easier on my elbows. LOL - until you start loading in volume, left and right arms.

A significant part of choosing the Mark 7 was from trashing my left and right elbows even worse loading in bulk on the 1050.

My elbows are as healthy as they have been in years. I shoot a LOT more now that the labor of reloading is reduced.

Edwin
11-26-2016, 10:44 AM
My shoulders are good, but my elbows were trashed with tendinitis.

A significant part of choosing my unautomated 1050 was being able to prime on the downstroke. It was supposed to be easier on my elbows. LOL - until you start loading in volume, left and right arms.

A significant part of choosing the Mark 7 was from trashing my left and right elbows even worse loading in bulk on the 1050.

My elbows are as healthy as they have been in years. I shoot a LOT more now that the labor of reloading is reduced.
It sounds like the autoloader is worth it, we just need to figure out if we want to keep our 650 and automate it or get a 1050 and automate that.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Luke
11-26-2016, 10:50 AM
I think I'm the long run the 1050 will be worth it. I've ran 650 processed brass and 1050 processed brass and there is a HUGE difference in little things like seating a primer. I think setting a 650 up for automation would require a lot of brass prep or a lot of malfunctions.

Keep in mind I've never loaded on a autodrive, but I know with 1050 prepped brass my press never stops running, with normal 650 stuff I get 2-5 hang ups on the priming station per 100 (guesstimate). It's not a big deal for me, but if I was running a mark 7 I wouldn't want to be messing with it 2-5 times every 100 or so.

olstyn
11-26-2016, 11:03 AM
Posting this here too. Inline Fabrication having 15% off sitewide for Black Friday, coupon code Black2016 - http://inlinefabrication.com/

That's the lowest I've seen their stuff.

You're making it difficult for me to avoid buying the skylight I've been wanting for my LnL. :mad: I don't need it, but it sure would be nice, and with 15% off, a large output bin + bin barrier are basically free as compared to normal pricing on the skylight alone...

nwhpfan
11-27-2016, 12:12 AM
Excuse me if the answer has already been posted but they key to making good ammo for not allot of $$ is buying bulk and taking advantage of sales when they pop up. I'm loading great ammo for less than 11 cents a round.

My primers cost $27.7 per thousand because I got an email notifying me Cabella's had Federal SPP on sale with free shipping. I bought as much as I could. They did take about 4 months to show up though.

Many bullet makers give you a 10% discount if you buy over 10k bullets. Current batch I'm loading came from BNB Casting. I got 147RN for 7.2 cents each and 125's for 6.4 cents each.

Powder is the cheapest part of the bullets and if you buy in bulk you can get it for about 18-20 bucks per pound. Right now if you bought 48 pounds of Tight Group from Powder Valley after hazmat and shipping you are paying about $17.55 per pound. Don't want 48lbs of TG, no problem. Sell off a couple jugs for a mere $20 a pound at a match or $25 on a local gun forum. That 8lb jug you're into for $145 you sell for $160 (+15 bucks).

Brass is free. Pick it up. I reload anything and everything I pick up.

So that's how you make super accurate and soft shooting ammo for about 11 cents each. And if you load on a 650 like I do you can do about 800 rounds an hour.

2.9 TG with 147,
3.6 TG with 125.

SPDGG
12-01-2016, 02:18 PM
Is it worth getting the Mark 7 autodrive for the 650 or should I sell my 650 to buy a 1050 with a Mark 7 LTE?

Sorry, I didn't look at your break down - but saw 650 vs 1050 "AND" Mark 7

No doubt 1050 > 650 any day . . . Volume is king . . . Plus it's your health we are talking about ;)

Mitch
12-01-2016, 02:29 PM
Sorry, I didn't look at your break down - but saw 650 vs 1050 "AND" Mark 7

No doubt 1050 > 650 any day . . . Volume is king . . . Plus it's your health we are talking about ;)

Is it over 2x better though? Sincere question, I'm thinking about a 650 but I don't want to be back in the market in 3 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Malamute
12-01-2016, 05:11 PM
. . Plus it's your health we are talking about ;)

I was wanting to try loading a bit, see if I could do it with the shoulder and back still messed up. Was just going to use the single stage press for low volume tinkering around. It then occurred to me that with the 550, Id be doing 1/3 or 1/4 of the handle strokes for each round made. Same basic argument can be made for any of the higher volume machines I guess, less work for the end result.

SPDGG
12-01-2016, 07:19 PM
Is it over 2x better though? Sincere question, I'm thinking about a 650 but I don't want to be back in the market in 3 years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you can swing it & the cost to do caliber swaps . . . I'd say 1050 all day, every day.
If I tone down the calibers I load for - I'll sell off what I have and swap up to 1050s

LittleLebowski
12-02-2016, 09:45 AM
Is it over 2x better though? Sincere question, I'm thinking about a 650 but I don't want to be back in the market in 3 years.


It depends. Are you planning to reload mil crimped 5.56? The 1050 caliber conversions are very expensive, most people leave their 1050 in one caliber.

Mitch
12-02-2016, 09:47 AM
It depends. Are you planning to reload mil crimped 5.56? The 1050 caliber conversions are very expensive, most people leave their 1050 in one caliber.

At this point I only reload 9mm. I don't see that changing anytime soon, but if I added any other caliber it would probably be 308 or 300 win mag, and would be done on a separate press.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LittleLebowski
12-02-2016, 09:52 AM
At this point I only reload 9mm. I don't see that changing anytime soon, but if I added any other caliber it would probably be 308 or 300 win mag, and would be done on a separate press.


You'd probably be a good candidate for a 1050 considering that you already have a 550, right? Another consideration is if you shoot enough to use that 1050 and/or possibly have shoulder/elbow issues that would justify the lesser exertion form the 1050 over the others. Another thought is to sell off the 550 and get a 650 with appropriate caliber changes plus maybe a billet/precision toolhead for loading precision rifle or a single stage for precision.

Brian Enos no longer sells Dillon but Krakenpop took over his business (https://krakenpop.com/apps/quick-shop). You should check out the package deals there.

JCS
12-02-2016, 03:26 PM
I ordered some coated bullets from http://hsbullets.com today. They have free shipping on all orders and give a 5% discount to first responders.

I found out about them on another forum and ordered purely based on price. At $66 shipped for 1000 125 grn bullets I had to try. This will lower my cost per round by about a penny.

I ordered a couple hours ago and it's already shipped. Talk about quick turn around!

Mitch
12-02-2016, 07:26 PM
You'd probably be a good candidate for a 1050 considering that you already have a 550, right? Another consideration is if you shoot enough to use that 1050 and/or possibly have shoulder/elbow issues that would justify the lesser exertion form the 1050 over the others. Another thought is to sell off the 550 and get a 650 with appropriate caliber changes plus maybe a billet/precision toolhead for loading precision rifle or a single stage for precision.

Brian Enos no longer sells Dillon but Krakenpop took over his business (https://krakenpop.com/apps/quick-shop). You should check out the package deals there.

Thanks for the link, those are good prices.

That's mostly what I'm stuck between. I want a 1050 but $1700 is a bitter pill. I'm not sure if the 650 is enough better/faster to justify the expense of an upgrade from the 550.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SPDGG
12-02-2016, 08:26 PM
Thanks for the link, those are good prices.

That's mostly what I'm stuck between. I want a 1050 but $1700 is a bitter pill. I'm not sure if the 650 is enough better/faster to justify the expense of an upgrade from the 550.

Well, you have to factor in the case feeder for the 650 vs. the 1050 w/ included case feeder. I know it's still more but trying to nudge you towards the 1050
- If I had the choice again, I would have waited off & set up a 1050. Love the 650 but adding a Mark 7 later makes more sense for a 1050 then 650, IMHO.

cooterbaldwin
12-24-2016, 01:41 PM
I love this place! Tons of great information in this thread.

I'm considering getting setup to reload for the first time. For the foreseeable future I'd be reloading 9mm only. Many a time I've read the "start on a single stage" advice. If I go single stage I'd likely go with a Forster Co-ax. The co-ax has quick and easy die changes, should last a lifetime and would be perfect for loading bolt gun ammo (mainly 223). I've also read that the 550 makes a good first press because you can operate it as a single stage. I've even read some posts or blog entries stating that starting off on a 650 is doable so long as you take your time and pay attention.

Regardless of press I'm planning on using pick-up brass. I've already been collecting my once-fired factory brass in anticipation of reloading someday. For brass prep the plan was de-priming and then wet tumble (although some of the brass sources listed in this thread have me rethinking that approach).

As I said, for now I'd be reloading 9mm only and shooting around 1k rounds per month. Any comments or recommendations?

Hambo
12-24-2016, 04:25 PM
I'm currently shooting about 1K per month, and I wouldn't want to feed that habit with my Co-ax. Even if I'm only hitting 450/hour on my 550 that's a lot faster than a single stage.

cooterbaldwin
12-24-2016, 04:45 PM
Yeah, I figured the co-ax would be used for producing some of my ammo but mainly for learning and getting familiar with the process. I assumed a good portion of my 1k per month would still be factory ammo.

GuanoLoco
12-24-2016, 10:59 PM
I love this place! Tons of great information in this thread.

I'm considering getting setup to reload for the first time. For the foreseeable future I'd be reloading 9mm only. Many a time I've read the "start on a single stage" advice. If I go single stage I'd likely go with a Forster Co-ax. The co-ax has quick and easy die changes, should last a lifetime and would be perfect for loading bolt gun ammo (mainly 223). I've also read that the 550 makes a good first press because you can operate it as a single stage. I've even read some posts or blog entries stating that starting off on a 650 is doable so long as you take your time and pay attention.

Regardless of press I'm planning on using pick-up brass. I've already been collecting my once-fired factory brass in anticipation of reloading someday. For brass prep the plan was de-priming and then wet tumble (although some of the brass sources listed in this thread have me rethinking that approach).

As I said, for now I'd be reloading 9mm only and shooting around 1k rounds per month. Any comments or recommendations?

550 over single stage anytime. I load 308 on a 550 and hold 3/4MOA at 100 yards - and I'm pretty sure that I, not the ammo or gun, is the limiting factor. 1000 rounds a month is easily do-able on a 550 ... but you will quickly find you shoot a lot more when ammo costs drop. I don't even want to think about 1000/month on a single stage.

A simple Lee single stage, maybe with a Breech Lock quick change head, is handy for occasional odd tasks.

GuanoLoco
12-24-2016, 11:01 PM
I love this place! Tons of great information in this thread.

I'm considering getting setup to reload for the first time. For the foreseeable future I'd be reloading 9mm only. Many a time I've read the "start on a single stage" advice. If I go single stage I'd likely go with a Forster Co-ax. The co-ax has quick and easy die changes, should last a lifetime and would be perfect for loading bolt gun ammo (mainly 223). I've also read that the 550 makes a good first press because you can operate it as a single stage. I've even read some posts or blog entries stating that starting off on a 650 is doable so long as you take your time and pay attention.

Regardless of press I'm planning on using pick-up brass. I've already been collecting my once-fired factory brass in anticipation of reloading someday. For brass prep the plan was de-priming and then wet tumble (although some of the brass sources listed in this thread have me rethinking that approach).

As I said, for now I'd be reloading 9mm only and shooting around 1k rounds per month. Any comments or recommendations?

550 over single stage anytime. I load 308 on a 550 and hold 3/4MOA at 100 yards - and I'm pretty sure that I, not the ammo or gun, is the limiting factor. 1000 rounds a month is easily do-able on a 550 ... but you will quickly find you shoot a lot more when ammo costs drop. I don't even want to think about 1000/month on a single stage.

12K/year is an easy payoff - even if you can't get components at bulk prices. Your time IS worth something.

45dotACP
12-24-2016, 11:04 PM
Yech...I need a progressive. Hell even a thousand rounds a month is sheer drudgery on my turret press.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

camsdaddy
12-25-2016, 06:34 AM
I figured out last night that reloading is expensive. Normally I would shoot
1000 maybe 2000 rounds a year. This year since I started reloading in January I have shot 9000 rounds. Wondering how much it would have been if I had gotten a progressive
Next

Mitch
12-25-2016, 09:57 AM
Anyone who recommends to you to start on a single stage when you are only loading pistol ammo must not like you very much. I started on a single stage loading 9mm and 45. I would not recommend anyone doing the same.

A 550 is an excellent way to get started.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

45dotACP
12-25-2016, 02:59 PM
Anyone who recommends to you to start on a single stage when you are only loading pistol ammo must not like you very much. I started on a single stage loading 9mm and 45. I would not recommend anyone doing the same.

A 550 is an excellent way to get started.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This indeed. I started with one of if those handheld deals and went to a turret....A significant improvement, but ultimately, I should have got a Dillon 550 or a Hornady progressive and just skipped the turret press altogether.

Mitch
12-25-2016, 04:10 PM
If one is mechanically inclined and only plans to load one caliber I'd look at a 650 or 1050 if you have the scratch.

For loading multiple calibers or wanting to learn a little slower, a 550 is a great machine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

olstyn
12-25-2016, 04:29 PM
Anyone who recommends to you to start on a single stage when you are only loading pistol ammo must not like you very much. I started on a single stage loading 9mm and 45. I would not recommend anyone doing the same.

I think there's some benefit to being taught the basics on a single stage, because you get to see and learn each step individually. That said, F single stage for any kind of pistol ammo loading long-term; it's just too slow. In my mind, ideally a new reloader would find a friend who can show them the steps on a single stage and then immediately buy a 550, 650, or LnL for actual use.

H&KFanNC
12-25-2016, 07:19 PM
Anyone who recommends to you to start on a single stage when you are only loading pistol ammo must not like you very much. I started on a single stage loading 9mm and 45. I would not recommend anyone doing the same.

A 550 is an excellent way to get started.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Personally, I would not give up my time on a single stage for anything. I think it really helps you to learn the process. As another posted, ideally they newb would learn on a borrowed single stage vs buying one but initial time spent with a single stage is time well spent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GuanoLoco
12-25-2016, 07:41 PM
Personally, I would not give up my time on a single stage for anything. I think it really helps you to learn the process. As another posted, ideally they newb would learn on a borrowed single stage vs buying one but initial time spent with a single stage is time well spent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I hear this but you can run one piece of brass at a time through a progressive press, or even insert/remoe a piece of brass from any stage. So it's not like you can't break the process down step by step.

mmc45414
12-25-2016, 08:59 PM
No reason to not start with a 550, but if you start with a single stage you will probably not regret having it around.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

H&KFanNC
12-25-2016, 09:21 PM
I hear what you are saying but you are talking about making a complicated piece of machinery, simple. Looking back, it seems easy to do. For a newby, start simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mmc45414
12-25-2016, 10:22 PM
I hear what you are saying but you are talking about making a complicated piece of machinery, simple. Looking back, it seems easy to do. For a newby, start simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My thoughts about the 550 is that the way the primer feed works, it is simple to start out processing one case at a time, not much more complex than a single stage.

But I am also an advocate of getting a single stage, because you can load your first 500-1000 rounds on it and keep it around.

But all of this is also dependant on the mechanical aptitude of the user.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Dr. No
12-26-2016, 12:59 AM
I started loading on a 550 way back in the day. Went to a 650 and loaded for a lot of different calibers. These days I'm averaging 17-20k rounds fired a year. I get most of my rifle ammo from work so I really just load pistol. 40 and 9mm competition loads. So my main motivation has been large volume of ammo that gauges correctly. Secrets I've learned from the years of loading:

1. Buy in bulk. Real bulk, like 10k+ at a time. I usually always buy bullets in this number. Just got in an order for 20k 40's and 30k 9mm's. Go in on a group buy with buddies and you can really get the price down, even for premium bullets. I shoot JHP zeros and pay about what I would for coated. Primers usually no less than 25k+. Only time I've ever bought brass was loading ammo for Nationals.
2. Set up your loading for volume. 1050 is the bees knees, especially when loaded up with the bullet feeder, case feeder ... and now I have the Mark VII. I load about 1500 rounds in an hour. The primer filler is a must as well.
3. Case prep is everything. I wet tumble and that eliminates a lot of crap in the press. Try and sort out bad brass, especially glocked brass in 40. I have a friend with a roll sizer and that thing has been gold. Lube the living hell out of your brass prior to loading.
4. Shockbottle hundo is top notch. I have my daughter help me fill it up when I'm done loading and then I transfer it to boxes, and date/label them.
5. Have good records and labeling. If i'm loading thousands of rounds a week and there's an error in a batch, you want to have that batch as small as you can so you don't have to go pulling massive quantities of ammo. I always try to shoot my oldest loaded stuff first as well.
6. When loading, every 1k rounds or so check your ammo to make sure it's in spec. Powder load, OAL, primer depth, etc. I had been forgetting to check my powder load and it had walked about .4 grains. Not dangerous, but out of the power factor I wanted.
7. Trade brass. I get 556 and 40 brass falling out of my ears. When I needed 9mm I put up a post to trade 'home depot orange bucket full of 556 for your bucket full of 9'. Had some idiots try to play the price game with me. Don't care, give me bucket. Finally found the right guy and everyone was happy.

If you load lots of calibers, go for the 650. If you load one or two and want to turn out large numbers, go 1050. I am cresting over 50k loaded on my 1050 and it's been outstanding.

LittleLebowski
12-26-2016, 07:52 AM
I love this place! Tons of great information in this thread.

I'm considering getting setup to reload for the first time. For the foreseeable future I'd be reloading 9mm only. Many a time I've read the "start on a single stage" advice. If I go single stage I'd likely go with a Forster Co-ax. The co-ax has quick and easy die changes, should last a lifetime and would be perfect for loading bolt gun ammo (mainly 223). I've also read that the 550 makes a good first press because you can operate it as a single stage. I've even read some posts or blog entries stating that starting off on a 650 is doable so long as you take your time and pay attention.

Regardless of press I'm planning on using pick-up brass. I've already been collecting my once-fired factory brass in anticipation of reloading someday. For brass prep the plan was de-priming and then wet tumble (although some of the brass sources listed in this thread have me rethinking that approach).

As I said, for now I'd be reloading 9mm only and shooting around 1k rounds per month. Any comments or recommendations?

1k rounds a month? No way in hell that I would consider a single stage for that. I'd at least go with a 550 for speed. I learned on a 550, it's not hard.

jiminycricket
12-27-2016, 12:13 AM
I bought a SDB back in September of this year after moving with my girl. Before that I had reloaded on a Lee single stage and averaged 1000 9mm a month. I was being stubborn and cheap with equipment hence why it took me so long to upgrade. Don't know what the hell I was thinking. I kept telling myself I needed more space for a progressive, but now I know that was nonsense. I only load 9mm and have no need to experiment with my load. I use berrys 115rn, titegroup, whatever primers I can get cheapest, and any assorted brass I find at the range. Normally a box of 50 runs me $6.75, but honestly as long as it's below $7 I'm happy.

ranger
12-27-2016, 12:33 AM
My broken record - 9mm only and 1000 per month = Dillon Square Deal.

Dr. No
12-27-2016, 10:39 AM
My broken record - 9mm only and 1000 per month = Dillon Square Deal.
How long does it take you to load that? Some people don't want to waste that time loading and would rather be shooting. Especially when you have two jobs, kids, and a wife to keep happy. On my rig I can load and box that up in an hour. How much is your time worth?

LittleLebowski
12-27-2016, 10:43 AM
Dr No, did you automate your 1050?

LittleLebowski
12-27-2016, 10:45 AM
4. Shockbottle hundo is top notch. I have my daughter help me fill it up when I'm done loading and then I transfer it to boxes, and date/label them.


I had no idea what this was until I searched: Link (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EQC9E0K/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B00EQC9E0K&linkId=6a2b2b3bda3042594b49a1f0b97bd28f).

Luke
12-27-2016, 10:53 AM
I had no idea what this was until I searched: Link (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EQC9E0K/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B00EQC9E0K&linkId=6a2b2b3bda3042594b49a1f0b97bd28f).

Sometimes stoeger will sell blems for like $75

Dr. No
12-27-2016, 10:57 AM
Dr No, did you automate your 1050?
Yes, I went full retard. I wouldn't recommend it unless you're really familiar with your press. I had about 30k loaded on it before I dropped the dime. The mark 7 is amazing, I love having a robot in the house [emoji3]

Dr. No
12-27-2016, 11:30 AM
I had no idea what this was until I searched: Link (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EQC9E0K/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B00EQC9E0K&linkId=6a2b2b3bda3042594b49a1f0b97bd28f).
http://benstoegerproshop.com/case-gauges/

That's where I got mine from. It's amazing how much time they save being able to handle each round only once, flip twice, done.