Issues loading coated bullets

[JCS]

This is my first go around with coated Bullets. Previously I have used fmj and copper plated and have not had this issue.

Today I loaded up 100 rounds of 147 bayou Bullets at 1.130 oal. I case gauged every one and had a lot of failures. I don't know what happened. 13/100 didn't sit flush or below in the gauge. Another 10-15 initially didn't either but with a little nudge would and then I would try them again and they would pass.

This is the worst one http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161111/f1916b30906b527f4ae797a1665c0389.jpg

Also, I had a few look like this http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161111/0b2a135d4f321398131d018961c87d89.jpg

I use a lee factory crimp for after I seat the bullet and there were quite a few that were difficult to run through the fcd. Do I need to flare more to prevent what looks like lead shavings? What about all the failures?

When I was loading plated I would have 2-5 that wouldn't pass the case gauge but they would pass the plunk test in my barrel.

Thanks in advance!

[Luke]

How big is your chamber?

Looks like the last one was run up into the tool head with the billet sideways.

How dry are your cases? When you wash donyou use car wax?

[jeep45238]

More flare- coated are a solid 1-2 thou larger. Try without the fcd as well, and giving a gentle increase in taper crimp until it case gauges- introduce fcd if needed after trying this.

[SecondsCount]

That looks like you need more flare. Can you tell where contact is being made to stop the round from fully seating in the case gauge?

[JCS]

How big is your chamber?

Looks like the last one was run up into the tool head with the billet sideways.

How dry are your cases? When you wash donyou use car wax?

Chamber for my pistol? I don't know? It's a Glock.

I just tumble my cases with media. No wax. I don't wash them after. Should I?

[JCS]

More flare- coated are a solid 1-2 thou larger. Try without the fcd as well, and giving a gentle increase in taper crimp until it case gauges- introduce fcd if needed after trying this.

Okay stupid question but how do I increase the taper crimp? I have all lee dies.

[jeep45238]

Screw the die down 1/4 turn or so at a time and it'll increase the crimp.

[JCS]

That looks like you need more flare. Can you tell where contact is being made to stop the round from fully seating in the case gauge?

I can't really tell. I did do a plunk test with my barrel and they all spun freely. The ones with the shavings wouldn't at first until I scraped off the shaving with my fingernail.

I'm going to try more flare for sure.

[Luke]

If it's a glock it will probably feed and chamber everything. Don't throw those CG failures away. Try them out and find out what actually won't CG for your gun.

Taper crimp on my DILLON dies is just a matter of tightening down that die farther into the tool head. What is your current crimp?

I wash with cleaner compound and add wax, makes loading very smooth and helps ease the process of squeezing the brass back down. The brass looks like it's had a rough time getting sized lol


For the record, I don't case guage age anything. Never owned one. Don't let it scare you, try YOUR chamber on the bad ones and see.

[Mike C]

You need to properly bell the case mouth when loading coated bullets. If not you will continue to skive the coating and probably some of the projectile itself causing inconsistencies. Keep working the belling in the case mouth but by bit until you stop damaging the coatings. I will bet dollars to doughnuts that this will fix your issues.

Luke's comment on the taper die is spot on. You will need to taper crimp well to hold the projectile and close the case mouth to ensure proper feeding.

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[Jim Watson]

Flare more so as to not scrape up coating and lead.

Taper crimp to at least straighten out the case mouth or put a LITTLE crimp on it. Taper crimp is for smooth feeding, the bullet should be tight in the case to start with. The picture shows enough "coke bottle effect" that the bullets are not going to set back against the feed ramp.

If they still don't gauge, seat a little deeper or/and run through the FCD.

[NETim]

https://www.blackbulletsinternational.com/loading-basics.html

[Jim Watson]

What a coinkydinky, I am loading mostly BBI.

I can add that a lot of bulk lead bullets, whether coated or lubed, are a bit more blunt in shape than jacketed or plated of the same caliber and weight.
So before you hammer hard on the crimp in Tip 5, try seating a bit deeper.
My BBI 135 9mms come out a good bit shorter than the pointy 147 Xtremes that my Colt wants for reliable feeding.

[ranger]

Also, check your brass. If it range pickup, there is some brass now that has a "step" inside that will cause issues when you use heavier projectiles. Also, sometimes you can load longer to deal with that issue - longer then your go-no go gauge. Have to take barrel out and do the "plunk" test with the barrel and make sure that the loaded round is not too long for the magazine.

[JCS]

If it's a glock it will probably feed and chamber everything. Don't throw those CG failures away. Try them out and find out what actually won't CG for your gun.

Taper crimp on my DILLON dies is just a matter of tightening down that die farther into the tool head. What is your current crimp?

I wash with cleaner compound and add wax, makes loading very smooth and helps ease the process of squeezing the brass back down. The brass looks like it's had a rough time getting sized lol


For the record, I don't case guage age anything. Never owned one. Don't let it scare you, try YOUR chamber on the bad ones and see.

I kept the ones that didn't pass the case gauge and did a plunk test with my barrel and they worked so I'm gonna shoot em.

So you don't check your rounds at all? That would save a lot of time.


You need to properly bell the case mouth when loading coated bullets. If not you will continue to skive the coating and probably some of the projectile itself causing inconsistencies. Keep working the belling in the case mouth but by bit until you stop damaging the coatings. I will bet dollars to doughnuts that this will fix your issues.

Luke's comment on the taper die is spot on. You will need to taper crimp well to hold the projectile and close the case mouth to ensure proper feeding.

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I checked and I have the taper crimped backed all the way off. I remembered why I was using the factory crimp die after reading up on it. The dies say with the fcd the brass can be different lengths. I don't trim my brass so should I still try the taper crimp?


Flare more so as to not scrape up coating and lead.

Taper crimp to at least straighten out the case mouth or put a LITTLE crimp on it. Taper crimp is for smooth feeding, the bullet should be tight in the case to start with. The picture shows enough "coke bottle effect" that the bullets are not going to set back against the feed ramp.

If they still don't gauge, seat a little deeper or/and run through the FCD.


What a coinkydinky, I am loading mostly BBI.

I can add that a lot of bulk lead bullets, whether coated or lubed, are a bit more blunt in shape than jacketed or plated of the same caliber and weight.
So before you hammer hard on the crimp in Tip 5, try seating a bit deeper.
My BBI 135 9mms come out a good bit shorter than the pointy 147 Xtremes that my Colt wants for reliable feeding.

I was seating the xtremes at 1.150 but they were round nose. I loaded these flat nose to 1.130. I wasn't sure how short I can go and still be safe.

[Luke]

You wanna crimp at .377. I float between .366-.378 and haven't had any issues. Yep, no case guaging. If you got a loose chamber like me you won't have too.

[dsa]

Lots of good stuff here. Be careful with the Lee FCD it can swage the bullets and undersize them causing accuracy issues and possibly leading as well. I am not saying "don't use the Lee FCD" just go slow and remove the bell, anymore can give you problems. Also your case gage was designed for SAMMI spec ammo, your bullets are not SAMMI spec; lead bullets are generally sized .356, FMJ's are .355. The chamber of your gun is your case gage.

[BN]

I load Bayou 147 bullets just like you. OAL is 1.130. Yes, you need to bell more before you seat the bullet. The shiny ring of lead is a dead giveaway. :)

I used to use the Lee FCD, but it caused more problems than it solved. I now use a plain taper crimp die set to just smooth out the crimp.

[ranger]

I load a lot 0f 9mm with the Bayous - I use the 125 as it seems to work best across all my 9mm. Once press it set up, I only check my "match" ammo.

[punkey71]

I had a similar issue with a different coated bullet in the past.

The costing made them a little oversized and they needed deeper seating to case gauge correctly. It was brought to their attention and the manufacturer sized .001 smaller after that.

Caliper a few plated/jacketed you've used in the past as well as some of your new costed bullets and tell us what you get.


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[JCS]

I still have a lot to learn it seems!

I hadn't messed with the crimp previously, I just set up my dies per the lee manual and left them alone.

So to measure crimp I need to measure the diameter of the brass at the very top where it meets the bullet?

What happens when I use the taper crimp die if some of my brass is different length?

I found this calculator on Dillon for crimp size http://dillonprecision.net/crimp-calculator/

[jeep45238]

Start with increasing the flare 1/4 turn of the expander die at a time (clockwise) until you can get the base of the bullet easily inserted, but it also doesn't look like a trumpet. Mess with crimp after you get the flare sorted out, which is probably the highest offender here.

[BN]

So to measure crimp I need to measure the diameter of the brass at the very top where it meets the bullet?
What happens when I use the taper crimp die if some of my brass is different length?

I usually don't measure. I use the eyeball and touch method. ;)

I load with range pickup brass. No uniformity at all. As I set the taper crimp die, I adjust it until it looks like the case is straight with no crimp. Then I slide the case in my fingers from base to case mouth to see if I can feel any belling left in and adjust as needed. Because of my junky brass, some will have a little more crimp than others. I adjust so that the belling is just removed from the worst brass.

All of my match ammo is checked in a chamber gauge. The failures go into the practice bin where they happily work on the practice range. :)

[GNiner]

I use Lee dies. I have backed the adjustment knob on the top of the Factory Crimp die all the way OUT so it does not apply any crimp at all. I find that the FCD die body itself straightens out the case enough after belling in the powder die. I use mixed range brass and ACME coated bullets. Someone noted above that the coated bullets are slightly oversized, which also means the crimp isn't really necessary if the belling is removed. I shoot 90% of my bullets out of Glocks, and over the years have noted that my case gauge is totally unnecessary. The Glock chamber are slightly oversized and will shoot Anything. I also have a CZ, which is notorious for having tighter chambers. I found that the CZ will chamber 147s (flat points) with no problems, but sometimes has problems chambering 124 RN bullets. So I just shoot from my 147 stash and forget case gauging those also.

[JPC]

I shoot 90% of my bullets out of Glocks, and over the years have noted that my case gauge is totally unnecessary. The Glock chamber are slightly oversized and will shoot Anything.

I have had the opposite experience to the above. My Berettas will chamber anything, but when trying to use the same reloads through glocks (both a G4 19 and a G4 34), I was having problems. I ended up getting a Lee U-die for resizing just so I could get the glocks to run reliably with that ammo.

I've been reloading Acme and Learherhead bullets for a while now. I ran into the same problem as the op when I first started using the coated bullets and what solved it was simply using a little bit more flare. If you seat the bullet without enough flare, you end up scraping the coating (and possible some lead) and it builds up at the very top of the neck. If you flare more before seating the bullet, you won't get that build up and you won't need to crimp.

I'm using a Dillon 550 with RCBS dies (other than the Lee U-die). I have the bullet seating/taper crimp die set to just take the flare out - no crimping. I'm seating to an oal of 1.135 and they work flawlessly.

I would try adjusting the flare before worrying about crimp. I think if you can stop the scrapping of the bullet during seating, your problem will probably be solved. Then, if you really want, you can try different amounts of crimp - but I think crimping on 9mm bullets it really unnecessary.

[BN]

I found that the CZ will chamber 147s (flat points) with no problems, but sometimes has problems chambering 124 RN bullets.

I was loading some 135 round nose coated bullets for a while. The 135's had to be loaded shorter than the 147's to work in my CZ.

[GNiner]

I have had the opposite experience to the above. My Berettas will chamber anything, but when trying to use the same reloads through glocks (both a G4 19 and a G4 34), I was having problems. I ended up getting a Lee U-die for resizing just so I could get the glocks to run reliably with that ammo.

That's very interesting. I noticed both of your Glocks are Gen 4s. My Glocks are all Gen 3s. I wonder if the chambers were tightened up in the Gen 4s. Anyway, completely agree with you about the additional flare to stop shaving while seating the bullet. Then the FCD takes the belling out, and there is no need to crimp extra. I have noticed with coated (and plated) that it is easy to crimp too much, therefore, I just don't.

[LittleLebowski]

As others said, bell a little more. You will learn to know by feel when you have belled enough and not enough. The crimp issue was covered properly as well, 1/4 turn or so, maybe even less. You can retest one round through your crime die a few times, at least as far as I know.

[GuanoLoco]

I see what looks like red primer sealant on the case that didn't case gauge. Some cases are not as high of quality as others and when you resize them they get bulgy by the case head. I don't so it but sorting out certain head stamps can cut down on this quite a bit.

A U-die or full length sizing die may help. U-dies (undersized 0.001") are hard on the arm.

Most of your case gauge failures will probably shoot just fine in a Glock chamber. Try sorting out CG failures and use them for practice. I bet most all run just fine. If you want, sort further into a couple of categories - very bad vs not so bad. See what runs in practice.

[Wobblie]

Shit can the Lee FCD.
Buy a decent taper crimp die; RCBS, Redding, Hornady.
Buy a Lee "U" sizing die.
Plunk test the first couple of rounds in the barrel.
Reload away.

[JCS]

Thanks for all the advice.

I loaded up some more today. I started off by increasing the flare and there wasn't anymore shaving of lead.

However, I didn't use the fcd and used the taper crimp. It caused all sorts of issues. They weren't consistently passing a plunk test in a Glock barrel. I think I didn't have enough crimp. I turned it an additional 1/4 turn and it seemed to correct the issue.

I ran the ones that didn't pass the plunk test in my barrel through the fcd and then they passed both my barrel and the case gauge.

I don't have a lot of confidence in these reloads for some reason. I guess it's because I just can't get the crimp down.

I need to just go shoot them now.

[LittleLebowski]

Yup, you need to go shoot them.

[Luke]

Measure the crimp on 10 of them and post the numbers

[BN]

What press are you using? On my Dillon progressives, I've noticed that I need to have a case in all stations to make sure the crimp comes out OK when I am setting it.

[JCS]

What press are you using? On my Dillon progressives, I've noticed that I need to have a case in all stations to make sure the crimp comes out OK when I am setting it.

Lyman turret. Here is the two cases that were really bad. They were both tulammo stamped brass. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161119/660866afd45dc5b9a609deb567a13e75.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161119/fc2c26ffe5bceeb9c9550e7e98d98e45.jpg

[GuanoLoco]

I target the taper crimp at the diameter of the bullet + 2X the width of the case walls at the case mouth.

Example: Bullet 0.355" diameter, case walls 0.011-0.012, crimp target 0.377-0.379". Just enough to remove the flare, no attempt to 'crimp' the case mouth into the bullet. You will get plenty of neck tension with a resized 9mm case. The only question is whether the loaded round fits in the chamber (and case gauge), headspacing on the case mouth.

Too little crimp and you will have CG/camber failures. To much and all kinds of issues up to and including keyholing.

The other thing - track your case guage failures against brass head stamp. I'll be that you find many more CG failures with TulAmmo and other 'cheap' / military brass (triangle, LY, etc.), especially when the case starts to fail and bulge oddly in the sizing process. I find a high correlation of issues with with cases that have red primer sealer, not that the sealer has anything to do with it.

[Luke]

Unflared case on the left flared and ready to drop a bullet in on the right

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp81/hook_setter/478B26B0-7C71-48D6-9D7E-8C2E3223397D_zpsl1bhx0sl.jpg (http://s400.photobucket.com/user/hook_setter/media/478B26B0-7C71-48D6-9D7E-8C2E3223397D_zpsl1bhx0sl.jpg.html)

[JCS]

Okay guys I got a chance to shoot these today. I shot 100 rounds. They were very accurate out of my g19. No tumbling at 25 yards, perfect little holes. Bullets 1-95 ran flawless. 96 was the last one in the magazine and the magazine didn't lock back. I'm not sure if it was bullet, gun, magazine or my hand. #97 was a click and no bang. I looked at the round and it had a decent primer strike on it. It was a tulammo case.

Anyways I guess the crimp is right after all and I just worried over nothing. I cleaned it when I got home. I've tried to find pics of what leading looks like in a glock barrel but a basic google search didn't turn up much except extreme cases. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161121/0711fa293daed0887f27d502e04093e5.jpg

There is my barrel. Not sure if you can tel anything from the picture. Nothing looks off to me inside the barrel. It had been about 700 rounds since I last cleaned it.

[GuanoLoco]

I shoot a LOT of coated bullets thru polygonally rifled barrels and don't even think about it anymore. Tanfo and Glock.

[JCS]

I'll be watching for some Black Friday deals on coated bullets now.

[LittleLebowski]

Good job, 1776United! Reloading is a journey.

[SPDGG]

What press are you using? On my Dillon progressives, I've noticed that I need to have a case in all stations to make sure the crimp comes out OK when I am setting it.
To add: The LnL is the same, I use empty cases in the other stations until I get them all rolling.