The 20 round AR mag thread

[LittleLebowski]

Here is where we all agree that 20rounders make the rifle balance/handle bestest and look bestest.

[ydennekb]

I agree. They also allow the gun to come out the window for a yote of opportunity easier than a 30.

[CCT125US]

20 rounders have at least 2 drawbacks, hard to monopod, and they don't make liberals cry as much. Other than that, they are kinda sexy.

[ASH556]

I like 'em but wish I could get some that work. Straight 20 rd PMAGs and an unused (until recently) 2009 stamped Colt give me issues.

[HCM]

I like 'em but wish I could get some that work. Straight 20 rd PMAGs and an unused (until recently) 2009 stamped Colt give me issues.

I've had good luck with Lancer 20's.

[Malamute]

Had a stack of Colt 20s back in the 80s, they all worked great. I dropped one loaded onto a large rock and bent the feed lip on one side, it wouldn't feed from that side afterwards. That's the only problem I ever had with them functioning.

Wish Id kept those mags. I sold them when I didn't have a gun for them. Dumb. Just have a few now.

[Joe in PNG]

20 rounders, a SP-1 with the 3 pronged flash hider & triangular handguard.

[VT1032]

I got very lucky at drill one time. My platoon sergeant and I were going through our storage area during a change of command inventory. Stumbled on to an entire footlocker of pristine, still in the plastic colt 20rnd mags. The supply sergeant said they were no longer on the books and we could take them. I ended up with about 20 or so and the rest went home with any of my guys that had AR's. That was a good day.

[Suvorov]

In my early days of experience with AR pattern rifles (old beat to hell Colt and Hydra-Matic M16A1s in the Wyoming Army Guard), I quickly learned that the 20 rounders seemed to work better that the old Adventure Line 30s that had been dropped, stepped on, and f-ed up for years. Since BRM never required 30 rounds, the lesser capacity was never an issue. Once I picked up my Colt Sporter and delved into the world of AR, I found that there were in fact reliable 30 round mags out there. That all said, deep down in my lizard brain, I still see 20s as the most reliable. From a practical standpoint the 20s work better for my needs, they are big enough to get a good grip on during a magazine change, but small enough that you can shoot from a bench, low prone, or from some crazy position with little interference. Of course 20 versus 30 is all a moot point for me since I am only a proletariat 2nd class in Kalifornia so am relegated to 10 round magazines (or 20/30s plugged to 10).

As far as aesthetics - it is really really hard to beat the look of a 20 round PMAG in the appropriate color, unless as noted above you are rocking an old triangle handguarded SP-1, then it is the Colt all the way.

[ASH556]

Here's one you don't see every day:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/IMG_1850.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/IMG_1850.jpg.html)

[JAD]

I came upon a stack of 20 round adventurelines when I first bought an AR in '97. They all worked and they all still work. I have a bunch of 20 round PMAGs too now, and they work good.

20 rounders make it easier to shoot from prone (I never trusted monopoding-- seemed like a feedway stopper to me); dont interfere with my forearm when I shoot delta ring; and can be rubber banded to the top of the handguard. They also fit in a jeans pocket.

[Erick Gelhaus]

WAsh, interesting that you are having issues with the older 20rd PMags. For several seconds now I have been carrying two 20rd PMags in my work AR via a redi-mod. Reason is maneuverability inside a patrol car. What have you encountered?

[Joe in PNG]

This thread is making want a SP1.

[SeriousStudent]

I have used and carried Colt straight 20's for years.

They are very handy in the AR pistol with a LAW folder I carry on trips.

They fit into a back jeans pocket very inconspicuously when I am at a public range, with people I do not know.

When shooting off a bipod, they maneuver easily.

I have 40 or 50 of them, I'm not sure. I would always pick up 10 or so whenever I found then NIB on sale.

[msstate56]

I've had feeding issues with the straight Pmags. I only use them for sighting in off the bench, as I can't trust them for anything else. I will be trying a gen3 20 round Pmag in the hopes that it works. I find that a 20 is handy inside the patrol car, I'm constantly hitting my elbow on the 30 while the carbine is in the rack (between the front seats).

[Little Creek]

The Gen 3s are supposed to work better.


I like 'em but wish I could get some that work. Straight 20 rd PMAGs and an unused (until recently) 2009 stamped Colt give me issues.

[SLG]

My vehicle weapons rack requires a 20, otherwise I would never use them. At one point I used them for concealed carry when doing low pro stuff overseas, but I very quickly switched back to 30's.

They do look cool, especially in the right gun.

[SecondsCount]

I have a small stack of Colt 20's that I have had for 30 years. One of them started giving me feed issues but it has a dent in the bottom which could have compromised the dimensions of the mag.

I just picked up a half dozen ASC 20 round blackened stainless mags. They allow for a little longer OAL which I like to play with on my precision AR. They have yet to make it to the range so not sure of reliability yet but the reviews are good.

[Kyle Reese]

Tango Down ARC 20's work well for me.

[John Hearne]

For certain vehicle applications they are almost mandatory. The passenger would not appreciate a 30 round magazine in this rifle.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/ajp3jeh/Gun%20Stuff/20_round_argument_zpscm8t5puc.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/ajp3jeh/media/Gun%20Stuff/20_round_argument_zpscm8t5puc.jpg.html)

[SLG]

John,

Which rack is that? Do you like it?

[BobM]

For certain vehicle applications they are almost mandatory. The passenger would not appreciate a 30 round magazine in this rifle.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/ajp3jeh/Gun%20Stuff/20_round_argument_zpscm8t5puc.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/ajp3jeh/media/Gun%20Stuff/20_round_argument_zpscm8t5puc.jpg.html)

A 30 round would make a nice armrest!

[John Hearne]

Which rack is that? Do you like it?

Setina double vertical with XL locks, free standing since I do not have a cage. It's OK. It's not visible but there is a 14" 870 there as well. For carrying two long guns, there aren't a whole lot of better options. That is our standard locking system, we're running it in Chargers and Pursuit Utilities with cages.

I had to make my own bracket for the "cup" at the bottom to have room for my Aimpoint to mount in the protected fashion you see. Supposedly, Setina will now send you brackets that will make this happen.

As far as speed of access, I still miss my overhead rack, the rifle just seemed to come out faster from it. Probably not an issue since you're not going to deploy the rifle under extreme duress, it's definitely a proactive tool.

[pdb]

GI straight 20 master race! Magpul twenties aren't bad, but aluminum curved twenties are gay. Straight Jacksons is where it's at.

You can put Magpul L-plates or ranger plates onto a GI 20, but you'll need to snap the floorplate retainer off it's rivet. And it reduces the mag to a 18 rounder. But it adds a bit of durability and handiness.

11510

Twennies are so much handier to drop into a pocket or hold two during manipulations. Plus maximum baller status:

11511

[ASH556]

WAsh, interesting that you are having issues with the older 20rd PMags. For several seconds now I have been carrying two 20rd PMags in my work AR via a redi-mod. Reason is maneuverability inside a patrol car. What have you encountered?

Repeated double feeds and failures to lock to rear across multiple in-spec rifles (Colt and DD).

[MistWolf]

Colt 20 rounders are retro sexy, but Magpul 40 rounders are awesome

[entropy]

My stash is about a 50/50 split between 20s and 30s. The 20s ride in the pistols and rifles as primary with either 20s on the belt or 30s in the vest as needed. I think it makes a better balance and certainly not as cumbersome. But, I got little t-rex arms...

[Lost River]

For work purposes I will run 30s.

For recreational purposes, I predominately use 20 rounders, mainly old Colt mags, many of which are at least 30 years old. As long as you don't step on them, or drop them on concrete or similar surfaces, they seem to run forever.


Old Colt Grouse gun:

AKA, the wolves were not cooperating, so I filled the dutch oven with grouse. Not a breast was harmed. :)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Rifles/002.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Rifles/002.jpg.html)


Modern rendition, same mags:


http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Rifles/IMG_1028_zps8gmimgyr.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Rifles/IMG_1028_zps8gmimgyr.jpg.html)

[entropy]

That post sure gets a workout!!

[Lost River]

:D

A BUNCH of ground squirrels have met their demise while guns have been perched from the surrounding fence posts. Not to mention I bet I have probably looked at 100+ antelope through a scope in the last 10 years in that same spot. A badger lives nearby, but I have yet to get the timing right on him..

[SLG]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only dinosaur that prefers the original grip angle of the AR. I have yet to see how the new, more vertical grips do anything positive.

[BobM]

I just put in for a purchase order for more 20 rd mags. We traded in some confiscated firearms and I'm going to be able to get enough ARs to issue each officer his own. Some of the racks only accommodate a 20.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GJM]

That post sure gets a workout!!

You stole my line!

[texasaggie2005]

20rd for hunting. (malfunction free in my lower over several hundred rounds)

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161107/3d420e3d832bd52af4371f012ce9f02b.jpg

40 for fun.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161107/89248ebfc356f682474fb4e6cd3e6b9e.jpg

[cmbarny2]

I picked up a Gen 3 20 rd PMAG after reading a couple similar threads on other forums. So I literally have 1 20 rd mag and I have to say I do like it. I have it in my HD gun honestly as it fits better to where I keep the gun. I wan't to pick up a handful more but my pre election spending went elsewhere than 20rd mags.

[Lost River]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only dinosaur that prefers the original grip angle of the AR. I have yet to see how the new, more vertical grips do anything positive.

They positively make companies money, selling the latest thing to the Timmies, so they can be all edgy. In other words, thousands of "salty" patrolmen with 3 years on the job, and 18 months on a part time tac team, who dress like they came off the set of Lone Survivor. Plus the x10 leg humpers who emulate them, playing dressup.


In all seriousness, they may work for some people, but frankly outside of true precision rifle work, where I am trying for proper (consistent) pad placement on the trigger face, the grip type/angle is of little concern. From my perspective, think about how many of us here on PF have carried an M4 for thousands of hours overseas with a bone stock Colt grip.

[TGS]

Regarding the K2 grip:

It's just more comfortable to me. My wrist always got cramped with the original grip angle.

Has nothing to do with being a Timmy. The only thing I've ever done with my personal AR15 wearing the K2 is sit it on a range bag, go prone, and make little groups on paper. I've never owned any personal "tactical" gear, or dressed up in plates carriers to practice my scan and assess with the rifle at weekend warrior entry courses of dubious value.

[entropy]

But admit it...you DO have at least one set of khaki pants with lots of pockets right???

[Cecil Burch]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only dinosaur that prefers the original grip angle of the AR. I have yet to see how the new, more vertical grips do anything positive.

On both of my wrists, the two tendons running along the edge of the wrist are completely severed (well, the medial one on my right is not totally severed, just shredded, but the other three are). I'm in a fair amount of pain constantly, but certain angles send that level to excruciating and sharp. I have found that the more vertical AR grips mitigate that to a significant degree, especially when I am shooting 2 gun action matches.

[Malamute]

But admit it...you DO have at least one set of khaki pants with lots of pockets right???

Carhartts?



RE grips, Ive not really handled much that's different. There may be something that's better, I'm just not aware of it (I don't get out much). The regular grips have always worked ok for what Ive done, which is mainly fun shooting and field stuff, so I just go with them. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it seemed to score on running rabbits, so thought that was a good sign.

[SLG]

On both of my wrists, the two tendons running along the edge of the wrist are completely severed (well, the medial one on my right is not totally severed, just shredded, but the other three are). I'm in a fair amount of pain constantly, but certain angles send that level to excruciating and sharp. I have found that the more vertical AR grips mitigate that to a significant degree, especially when I am shooting 2 gun action matches.

That's an easy fix. Don't shred your wrist tendons. Duh. Your welcome. :-)


Seriously though, when I say it doesn't do anything, I'm certainly not talking about situations like Cecil's. I'm strictly speaking from a top of the heap performance aspect. The way some companies talk about them, you would think no one could shoot an AR at a national level until these new grips became available.

[TGS]

But admit it...you DO have at least one set of khaki pants with lots of pockets right???

Issued by work, for free.

[spinmove_]

So other than "easier to go prone with" or "better for storage and/or transporting when space is tight" are there any other practical reasons why I should get some 20 rounders?

I'm assuming Lancer and Magpul are GTG options for poly mags. Anything in particular for GI style mags that are GTG?

[MistWolf]

So other than "easier to go prone with" or "better for storage and/or transporting when space is tight" are there any other practical reasons why I should get some 20 rounders?

I'm assuming Lancer and Magpul are GTG options for poly mags. Anything in particular for GI style mags that are GTG?

"Shoot the rifle"

Bottom line is, you won't know if there are any good reasons to have and use 20 round magazines until you get a couple and put them through their paces. There are situations I prefer the 20 round magazine but my reasons may not fit your needs or wants. Get a couple and give them a good workout. Worse thing that happens is you end up not liking them and you sell them or trade them off. Either way, you answer your own question with a deeper understanding than you'll get by being told what works

[spinmove_]

"Shoot the rifle"

Bottom line is, you won't know if there are any good reasons to have and use 20 round magazines until you get a couple and put them through their paces. There are situations I prefer the 20 round magazine but my reasons may not fit your needs or wants. Get a couple and give them a good workout. Worse thing that happens is you end up not liking them and you sell them or trade them off. Either way, you answer your own question with a deeper understanding than you'll get by being told what works

I hear what you're saying and I totally agree with you that I'll ultimately end up being the one that decides if they're for me or not. I guess I was just looking for more situations in which they're generally more advantageous than their 30 round counterparts. I'll probably pick up one or two for grins just to have them, but honestly, I'd never even really considered them an option before because "why have a magazine that carries 10 less rounds than what I could have?".

[SLG]

So other than "easier to go prone with" or "better for storage and/or transporting when space is tight" are there any other practical reasons why I should get some 20 rounders?

I'm assuming Lancer and Magpul are GTG options for poly mags. Anything in particular for GI style mags that are GTG?

30 rounders as monopods are one of the reasons AR's are such excellent field guns. The only reason to go with 20's, imo, is for space issues.

[spinmove_]

30 rounders as monopods are one of the reasons AR's are such excellent field guns. The only reason to go with 20's, imo, is for space issues.

Ok, fair enough. Just making sure I cover all the bases.

I'm assuming the 20 round D&H mags are GTG then much like their 30 round counterparts? Sounds like the 20 round Magpuls are as well. Just keeping my options open for whichever is more cost effective as I find them.

[WobblyPossum]

In all seriousness, they may work for some people, but frankly outside of true precision rifle work, where I am trying for proper (consistent) pad placement on the trigger face, the grip type/angle is of little concern. From my perspective, think about how many of us here on PF have carried an M4 for thousands of hours overseas with a bone stock Colt grip.

Carrying an M4 in the military is exactly why I love the straight angled grips. The standard grip guaranteed my wrist was uncomfortable during a patrol or a road march due to the angle I'd have to cant my wrist.

I do agree that I haven't seen any difference in shooting performance using the straight angled grips.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SLG]

Carrying an M4 in the military is exactly why I love the straight angled grips. The standard grip guaranteed my wrist was uncomfortable during a patrol or a road march due to the angle I'd have to cant my wrist.

I do agree that I haven't seen any difference in shooting performance using the straight angled grips.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So...what I've seen with guys running the straighter grips is that they can't get as high on the gun. That then leads to less control of the gun, especially one handed. I suppose that's hand size dependent, but I rarely see anyone holding the gun high enough.

[WobblyPossum]

So...what I've seen with guys running the straighter grips is that they can't get as high on the gun. That then leads to less control of the gun, especially one handed. I suppose that's hand size dependent, but I rarely see anyone holding the gun high enough.

I think you're right about it being hand size dependent. The size of the grip has something to do with it too. With the BCM Mod 3 grip, the web of my firing hand is at the base of the end plate. With a thinner grip like the Mod 1, I have to work harder to get my hand up as high.


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[Moshjath]

SLG, what grips do you usually run on an AR?

I personally like the issued A2's. When I went through mid south, they showed us one technique of placing both your ring finger and your middle finger above the nub on an A2. I have pretty small hands, this helps me get a pretty high grip, get the right amount of finger on the trigger, and pretty good control of an M4. Plus any issued rifle I pick up will handle the same then.

[SLG]

SLG, what grips do you usually run on an AR?

I personally like the issued A2's. When I went through mid south, they showed us one technique of placing both your ring finger and your middle finger above the nub on an A2. I have pretty small hands, this helps me get a pretty high grip, get the right amount of finger on the trigger, and pretty good control of an M4. Plus any issued rifle I pick up will handle the same then.

That's what I do with the issue grip. I switch my guns to Tango Down grips most of the time.

[spinmove_]

The standard Magpul MOE grip seems to work well for me.

[rob_s]

I would never use them. ...I very quickly switched back to 30's.

They do look cool, especially in the right gun.


I'm glad to see I'm not the only dinosaur that prefers the original grip angle of the AR. I have yet to see how the new, more vertical grips do anything positive.



Seriously though, when I say it doesn't do anything, I'm certainly not talking about situations like Cecil's. I'm strictly speaking from a top of the heap performance aspect. The way some companies talk about them, you would think no one could shoot an AR at a national level until these new grips became available.


30 rounders as monopods are one of the reasons AR's are such excellent field guns. The only reason to go with 20's, imo, is for space issues.


So...what I've seen with guys running the straighter grips is that they can't get as high on the gun. That then leads to less control of the gun, especially one handed. I suppose that's hand size dependent, but I rarely see anyone holding the gun high enough.


That's what I do with the issue grip. I switch my guns to Tango Down grips most of the time.

All of this and so much more.

[hiro]

Back with the OP, I just wish I could buy anything bigger than 10 rounds here in CO.

:mad:

[johnson]

I have an old cut down Magpul 20rd which barely sticks out the mag well and a Lancer L5 AWM 10rd for shooting off the bench. I also use them during hunting season since MO has a 10rd mag limit for game.

https://i.imgur.com/YqLyfMRh.jpg

[SeriousStudent]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only dinosaur that prefers the original grip angle of the AR. I have yet to see how the new, more vertical grips do anything positive.

Indeed. I have a habit of just taking a Dremel to the bump on the A2 grip, and then they fit my paws quite well.

It does not look very spiffy, but the fit is great. And none of my AR's are safe queens, anyway.

[ReverendMeat]

Hate the A2.

Would do just fine with a Magpul MOE but I've used a K2 for a bit. I don't know anything anymore about gunning with body armor or any of that high speed low drag shit, but I prefer the K2. I might be developing some issues with my wrist and the vertical-er angle is more pleasant, and it places my index finger more perpendicular to the face of the trigger, right in the middle, so that's nice. It makes one handed manipulation more difficult though.

[Unobtanium]

I am not a 20 round guy because I find them functionally inferior, as well as the capacity issue.
That said, I believe that Magpul has stated publicly on several occasions that aside from their M3, the USGI Colt 20 round mags were found to be VERY VERY reliable, and they they like them. I forget who made the statement, but it was someone who was familiar with their internal tests.

[Malamute]

When I went through mid south, they showed us one technique of placing both your ring finger and your middle finger above the nub on an A2. I have pretty small hands, this helps me get a pretty high grip, get the right amount of finger on the trigger, and pretty good control of an M4.

I thought the A2 bump was to take some of the weight so the trigger guard didn't bear on your middle finger as much.

I am a fan of the folding trigger guard. Rarely fold it, but like that it does and I can shoot in mittens in the cold.

[El Cid]

Didn't see these mentioned. I have a few and they've worked superbly in several different rifles.
https://dsgarms.com/ma-01dsgb

I have a couple of the old Colt 20's but they are getting old and worn. They appear to have an aluminum follower which is very smooth but I imagine would be more costly to make these days.

Another space issue where a 20 is helpful is with covert carry such as tennis racket bags.

[StraitR]

Another space issue where a 20 is helpful is with covert carry such as tennis racket bags.

Agreed. I also like 20's for hog and coyote hunting from vehicles, inside blinds, and moving through thick underbrush (which I despise already).

Space saver.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8591/28824687386_92ba4f2f31_c.jpg

[breakingtime91]

SLG pointed me to the tango down grips. I now have one on each of my rifles. After using BCM pistol grip for over a year and then going to the tango down, I have no idea how I thought the bcm was good (for me).

[Bigghoss]

The other day I went to sight in my AR and I forgot the one 20-round mag I own so I had to use 30's. Except my sandbag wasn't tall enough so I had to prop it up on a coolant jug from the back of the truck. I'm going to blame my flyers and the fact that it took almost two boxes of ammo to sight in on not having a shorter mag with me.

[StraitR]

SLG pointed me to the tango down grips. I now have one on each of my rifles. After using BCM pistol grip for over a year and then going to the tango down, I have no idea how I thought the bcm was good (for me).

Over the last 20 years, I've gone from an A2 (eventually filed off finger groove), to the MIAD (had them for years), and recently to the BCM (within the last two years). I like the BCM, but as pointed out by SLG, I don't feel like I get as high on the grip as I did and definitely don't have as much one hand control. I was considering going back to the MIAD, but I may need to find a Tango Down on the cheap and give it a try.

[breakingtime91]

Over the last 20 years, I've gone from an A2 (eventually filed off finger groove), to the MIAD (had them for years), and recently to the BCM (within the last two years). I like the BCM, but as pointed out by SLG, I don't feel like I get as high on the grip as I did and definitely don't have as much one hand control. I was considering going back to the MIAD, but I may need to find a Tango Down on the cheap and give it a try.

skd has them as demo pieces periodically. When ever we meet up you more then welcome to check them out.

[Lyonsgrid]

These guys felt left out and deserve to be included in this thread...

11691

11692

[SLG]

Over the last 20 years, I've gone from an A2 (eventually filed off finger groove), to the MIAD (had them for years), and recently to the BCM (within the last two years). I like the BCM, but as pointed out by SLG, I don't feel like I get as high on the grip as I did and definitely don't have as much one hand control. I was considering going back to the MIAD, but I may need to find a Tango Down on the cheap and give it a try.

If it helps, I'm happy to see about a small group purchase from Tango Down, if anyone is interested. I doubt it would have to be many and I think I'll check anyway.

[hiro]

If it helps, I'm happy to see about a small group purchase from Tango Down, if anyone is interested. I doubt it would have to be many and I think I'll check anyway.


I'm in for two

[El Cid]

If it helps, I'm happy to see about a small group purchase from Tango Down, if anyone is interested. I doubt it would have to be many and I think I'll check anyway.

Would it include their BG-18? :D Sorry - I prefer the more vertical grips. lol!

[Willard]

Does anyone use the "duck bill" grip Tiger McKee used to offer? I alway liked those for what they were (simple & no storage).

[helothar]

If it helps, I'm happy to see about a small group purchase from Tango Down, if anyone is interested. I doubt it would have to be many and I think I'll check anyway.
interested in this

[Lex Luthier]

I too might be interested. Which model are you envisioning, or will there be a choice?

[rjohnson4405]

I'd be interested in 2 SLG

[spinmove_]

It depends on which sized model we're talking about, but I might be interested as well. The wife will need a pistol grip for her lower at some point and I've had a mild interest in giving the BG-17 a shot.