View Full Version : Do you want a rebellion cause this is how you start a rebellion
Eastex
10-23-2016, 08:59 AM
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-national-guard-bonus-20161020-snap-story.html
Basically someone in the California National Guard made a mistake and gave out re-enlistment bonuses to people that weren't supposed to be getting them during the Iraq War to try and meet their enlistment goals. Now they're going back and telling veterans they want them back and are garnishing wages and charging interest to do it. I'm sorry but we've got enough money to bring terrorists over here and feed, shelter, and clothe their ass but we can't find enough money to swallow these bonuses?
The fact that the tar and feathers haven't been broken out just breaks my heart. The fact that people aren't revolting over this kind of crap just shows that this country is beyond repair.
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Guinnessman
10-23-2016, 09:25 AM
It is a damn shame what Cali is doing to these Vets. I say let the left keep pissing off Law Enforcement and Vets, then see what happens. It's amazing how this country treats those that keep us safe.
rcbusmc24
10-23-2016, 09:42 AM
Just another nail in the coffin of the all volunteer military, good luck getting people to volunteer the next time you need them Cali.....
Wobblie
10-23-2016, 10:41 AM
Unbelievable.
FNFAN
10-23-2016, 10:42 AM
Well Sheesh & GeeWhiz!
We gotta balance out the $1,300,000,000.00 we gave Iran somehow! Be Reasonable!
blues
10-23-2016, 10:49 AM
This is a continuation of a trend that has been going on for quite some time now.
In Congress they lauded the men and women who were first responders on 9-11. Later on they tried to find a way to save money by denying them the healthcare required due to the injuries and illnesses in the aftermath.
Balance the budget? Sure...let's cut back or renege on the pensions of law enforcement and military. I think they misunderstand the concept of a volunteer military. It doesn't mean they should work for free.
Talk is cheap. Backing up words with deeds and appropriate funding is what is sorely lacking in (all levels of) government.
Hot Sauce
10-23-2016, 10:51 AM
I hope the soldiers bring forward lawsuits. This is unforgivable.
Malamute
10-23-2016, 11:08 AM
I hope the soldiers bring forward lawsuits. This is unforgivable.
I believe this is happening, though one person that filed suit has had their repay forgiven, "so now they don't have a case and the lawsuit should be dismissed" according to the .gov lawyers. Hes still on the hook for his education bill of 5K I believe. It may be the one that was filed as a class action suit.
txdpd
10-23-2016, 11:09 AM
It is a damn shame what Cali is doing to these Vets.
It's not just Cali, this goes all the way to the White House. IMO this is just another example of the seething contempt that obama has shown towards the military men and women. This could and should have been squashed with little more than a phone call.
Dagga Boy
10-23-2016, 11:58 AM
Trust me, the last thing that will cause a rebellion in California is screwing with military folks or law enforcement. Just wait till the send Kamala Harris to the Senate to represent the state.....will make Feinstein and Boxer look like conservatives.
GardoneVT
10-23-2016, 12:15 PM
If they could get away with it, the leftist powers that be would have shut down the DoD entirely.
This is a continuation of a trend that has been going on for quite some time now.
Since the Revolutionary War, to be specific.
Any of you who think this type of situation is new and a sign of America falling apart are kidding yourselves. Our servicemen/vets being stiffed has happened repeatedly throughout our history....our country was founded on it.
Shoresy
10-23-2016, 03:44 PM
It is a damn shame what Cali is doing to these Vets. I say let the left keep pissing off Law Enforcement and Vets, then see what happens. It's amazing how this country treats those that keep us safe.
It's a damn shame what MG Beavers is doing to these vets. Need an example of when to stand up and go to bat for your people? This is it. If rolling over and saying "well I guess you're screwed" is your response when your people need you, your leadership is garbage.
Joe in PNG
10-23-2016, 03:47 PM
Yep, if you want to establish & maintain a tyrannical government, first you got to have a whole lot of guys with guns that like you.
Either you have served with them and gained their respect, or you have paid them well, and gained their love.
Remember that one of the top ways a tyrant dies is "stabbed by their own praetorians"
Just to be clear is this a state of CA decision or an Army / DOD decision ?
Glenn E. Meyer
10-23-2016, 05:33 PM
ABC said it's national. CA waved some - if I heard it correctly. Seems to me that the Congress and/or President would stop this instantly. Or maybe they could get all the service people to give speeches to Goldman Sachs to work off the debt.
peterb
10-23-2016, 06:28 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/23/499065155/u-s-soldiers-told-to-repay-thousands-in-signing-bonuses-from-height-of-war-effor
CA Guard says it has to get the money back according to Federal rules, but would be happy to have the rules changed.
Arbninftry
10-23-2016, 07:40 PM
Ehh! this has happened before!
You want to march on DC, sure but our great generals will freaking kill you! McArthur and some piss ant tanker 2LT that had a name of Patton, will turn on you quick.
if you disobey orders from the great ones, your careers are toast. You see they still wanted their moment ofgreatness. And this was one of the suppressed moments in history. Eisenhower was McArthur's aide.
Ever heard of the Bonus Army.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
It has happened before. The big green weeny strikes again.
BOHICA
If you believe they won't fire on their own, you are not studying history enough.
Joe in PNG
10-23-2016, 08:01 PM
If you believe they won't fire on their own, you are not studying history enough.
Apples to oranges, and a totally different set of circumstances. The Bonus Army was not a group reacting to a leader throwing aside the Constitution and declaring themselves Dictator for life.
MacAurthur was not leading troops to institute single party rule across the USA.
As a former soldier, ask yourself a few questions:
Would you, if directly ordered by a superior officer, beat your wife and children to death?
Would you, if directly ordered by a superior officer, open fire on your parents?
Would most of the troops you directly know do the above?
History is full of examples of situations where the troops plain say "no" to their leaders when ordered to fire on their own people... and this is often followed by said leader either dying in a ditch (Romania), arrested (Russia), or fleeing for their lives (Germany).
Arbninftry
10-23-2016, 11:11 PM
History is full of examples of situations where the troops plain say "no" to their leaders when ordered to fire on their own people... and this is often followed by said leader either dying in a ditch (Romania), arrested (Russia), or fleeing for their lives (Germany).
There are also plenty of examples the other way around. It is going to depend on the group of soldiers. I was a former Instructor on a Military Installation that pushed troops to Afghan. And some of those troops and their leaders could care less about the constitution. So there are plenty of groups that will go either way on that.
FYI I was a C-IED Instructor on Ft. Bliss. until 2013. Just another Contractor
And the big point is know your history. It can happen, but hell we could get hit by a bus tomorrow so fu@* it
Sero Sed Serio
10-23-2016, 11:27 PM
If they could get away with it, the leftist powers that be would have shut down the DoD entirely.
The Berkeley city council made that clear in 2008...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/07/berkeley.protests/index.html?eref=onion
Suvorov
10-24-2016, 12:45 AM
We (the CARNG) were so desperate for troops at the time that we were spending as much time recruiting and "retaining" as we were preparing for war. Imagine that? Tankers and Scouts all going out into the streets of NORCAL trying to find "men" willing to go to war while at the same time, trying to retain the ones we had who had signed up to play on big machines that blew shit up but were instead being turned into dog and pony show actors? The State's solution: 1) get rid of tanks and turn the BN into a transportation unit that could recruit women and 2) throw as much money and as many promises as you could at the problem. It seemed at the time like a good deal for those that didn't pop smoke (like me) at the time. Now this........... Just makes my stomach turn as guys I served with are getting screwed over. Now it is a wait and see if they decide to go after some of the State sponsored college tuition benefits as well.
At the ripe age of 45, I really am beginning to have a hard time recognizing the country I grew up in :(
GardoneVT
10-24-2016, 01:04 AM
Before I left Big Blue they were already cutting education benefits for in-service personnel and limiting GI Bill uses on active duty.
Way things are going, once the peacetime DoD budget gets cut to the bone....and then to the marrow...and then down to the mitochondria they'll axe the GI Bill entirely and say the money's "run out ".
Suvorov
10-24-2016, 01:07 AM
Before I left Big Blue they were already cutting education benefits for in-service personnel and limiting GI Bill uses on active duty.
Way things are going, once the peacetime DoD budget gets cut to the bone....and then to the marrow...and then down to the mitochondria they'll axe the GI Bill entirely and say the money's "run out ".
Who needs the GI Bill when Hilary is going to pay for everyone's college?
DMF13
10-24-2016, 01:21 AM
Ehh! this has happened before!
You want to march on DC, sure but our great generals will freaking kill you! McArthur and some piss ant tanker 2LT that had a name of Patton, will turn on you quick.
if you disobey orders from the great ones, your careers are toast. You see they still wanted their moment ofgreatness. And this was one of the suppressed moments in history. Eisenhower was McArthur's aide.
Ever heard of the Bonus Army.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
It has happened before. The big green weeny strikes again.
BOHICA
If you believe they won't fire on their own, you are not studying history enough.Comparing this to the "Bonus Army" is quite ridiculous.
1st, the Bonus Army "protesters" were not trying to get something they had been promised, but been screwed out of getting. The government didn't break the promise to pay the bonuses, the "protesters" wanted the government to pay earlier than had been promised. The payments were to made in 1945, but the "protesters" wanted the money in 1932 (and again in '33).
2nd, the vets were allowed to borrow against as much as 50% of their total bonus (originally 22%, but upped to 50% by Congress in 1931), but the "protesters" wanted immediate payment.
3rd, the funds to pay for the bonuses were based on annual payments, from tax revenues, into a fund for 20 years (1924 to 1944). Any early payment would mean there wouldn't have been enough money available to pay the bonuses, and increased taxes would have been necessary to cover the early payments. The economy was already burdened in a time when the recovery from the "Great Depression" was just beginning, and those increased taxes could have slowed or even reversed the recovery.
4th, I don't recall seeing anyone suggesting rioting in the streets of DC, which is what the "Bonus Army" did, as an answer to this issue.
The "Bonus Army" protesters were morally bankrupt, and trying to screw over the rest of the nation.
You are comparing apples to hand grenades.
hufnagel
10-24-2016, 07:55 AM
At the ripe age of 45, I really am beginning to have a hard time recognizing the country I grew up in :(
Only 2 years back of you, and I've been thinking the same thing. How far, how fast, did they really light the afterburners this time? Biggest problem is, I can't see how far away the ground is.
Glenn E. Meyer
10-24-2016, 10:53 AM
During the Kent State Shooting incidents, I talked to a member of the Ohio National Guard. His unit was being called up and his lieutenant was all gung-ho for being sent to a campus so he could shoot some of those college hippies. His unit was made up of college students who managed to get in the Guard to avoid Viet Nam (like GWB and some well known units in TX). It was suggested to him that if such an order was given there might some misguided rounds in all directions, if you get my drift. He lost his enthusiasm for going to campus.
One cannot count on what would happen if there was such a level of civil disturbance in the USA. The armed forces are not uniform in class or race. Who knows?
Peally
10-24-2016, 11:32 AM
Only 2 years back of you, and I've been thinking the same thing. How far, how fast, did they really light the afterburners this time? Biggest problem is, I can't see how far away the ground is.
I think we lose perspective sometimes. We had thousands and thousands of oxygen thieves in the streets hopped up on drugs protesting this and that decades prior just like we do now.
peterb
10-26-2016, 12:17 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/26/499443646/pentagon-suspends-effort-to-take-back-bonus-money-paid-to-national-guard-members
Clawback has been suspended.
Suvorov
10-26-2016, 01:27 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/26/499443646/pentagon-suspends-effort-to-take-back-bonus-money-paid-to-national-guard-members
Clawback has been suspended.
Yes. Now I want to see if the guys who played "by the rules" and already paid up get their money back. This whole debacle rests entirely with the CAL ARNG - and the state needs to pay the money back, NOT the soldiers who in good faith fulfilled their obligations.
Yes. Now I want to see if the guys who played "by the rules" and already paid up get their money back. This whole debacle rests entirely with the CAL ARNG - and the state needs to pay the money back, NOT the soldiers who in good faith fulfilled their obligations.
What? Give a bunch of guys who probably aren't uniformly reliable Dem voters their money back when the state needs the money to build a high-speed train to nowhere and increase state pensions again? That's either crazy talk or hate speech. I'm not sure which, but I'm real sure it must be one or both of them.
Suvorov
10-26-2016, 10:59 PM
What? Give a bunch of guys who probably aren't uniformly reliable Dem voters their money back when the state needs the money to build a high-speed train to nowhere and increase state pensions again? That's either crazy talk or hate speech. I'm not sure which, but I'm real sure it must be one or both of them.
Hey, the train doesn't go to nowhere, it will go between Manteca and Bakersfield. The more important thing is not were it will go but how many supposed jobs it will create and how much of the tax payers $$$ can be given to Richard Blum's enterprises.
Lex Luthier
10-27-2016, 08:45 AM
Heh. I lived in CA through most of the BS surrounding that project, and never knew it was Dick Blum's thing. Man, Feinstein works all the angles, eh?
(For those of you not versed in the last 45 years of CA politics, Richard Blum is Senator Dianne Feinstein's husband.)
Hey, the train doesn't go to nowhere, it will go between Manteca and Bakersfield. The more important thing is not were it will go but how many supposed jobs it will create and how much of the tax payers $$$ can be given to Richard Blum's enterprises.
Dianne Feinstein is just jealous that Hugo Chavez's daughter is worth maybe $8 billion while Blum is worth low billions max. I mean, here she is, the former mayor of San Francisco as well as a Senator from California--one of the richest places in the world--for the better part of 30 years and she and her husband (I'm not sure if Blum is husband #3 or #4) aren't worth as much as the daughter of some tin pot Latin American dictator?
You can imagine the seething outrage inside the heavily botoxed face. She should be worth two to three times as much as la chica rica at a minimum. And think about all those worth even less--Nancy Pelosi whose husband made decent money on San Fran Section 8 housing, but nothing like Blum, or Barbara Boxer, whose husband parlayed her union and political connections into the most valuable workers compensation law practice in Northern California, but still doesn't have real dynastic-type wealth.
They need the bullet train to nowhere. They've devoted their lives to politics and some little twerp from Venezuela is going to be richer than them? Not a chance. That bullet train is going to be the basis for a lot of fortunes.
Glenn E. Meyer
10-28-2016, 11:12 AM
I had the idea that the Donald could say that he would cover half the supposed debt if the Clinton Foundation or Bill's personal wealth could cover the other half. Bill could easily make up the money from a speech to Goldman Sachs or from the Sultan of Qatar.
I had the idea that the Donald could say that he would cover half the supposed debt if the Clinton Foundation or Bill's personal wealth could cover the other half. Bill could easily make up the money from a speech to Goldman Sachs or from the Sultan of Qatar.
I think Bill will only give speeches to dictators who can prove they don't speak a word of English and the Qataris speak some.
As for Trump's alleged "billions," um . . . .
11B10
10-28-2016, 01:22 PM
........." I think they misunderstand the concept of a volunteer military."
Oh, they understand just fine - they just don't CARE!
Ronin_Jedi
10-28-2016, 03:18 PM
Well Sheesh & GeeWhiz!
We gotta balance out the $1,300,000,000.00 we gave Iran somehow! Be Reasonable!
This money was not US funds. It was Iranian funds already in the US that Iran was blocked from accessing and using. In other words, Iranian assets released back to iran.
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