AR build for early teen daughter

[mtnbkr]

My oldest girl, currently 13yo, expressed an interest in having/shooting a rifle.

First, the background on us as shooters. I'm a recreational shooter, hunter, and revolver collector. I have no military background, do not compete, nor am I a serious benchrest shooter. I just like guns and shooting them.
Daughter is your typical early teen girl, but does like to go to the range with her old man. She enjoys shooting the 22/45 Lite I set up and likes shooting my K38 "Target Masterpiece" with wadcutter loads. She's sensitive to noise though and won't touch my Glock (too loud according to her).

While we were perusing a gun show recently, she mentioned the ARs were neat and she wouldn't mind shooting/owning one. I like the idea because, with a 6-pos stock, it would fit both of us. FWIW, I built an AR right after the AWB Sunset and ran it for a couple thousand rounds before selling it when Obama was elected (for a nice profit, I might add). I also assembled an AR pistol earlier this year, but sold it before I got to the upper portion. I'm pretty comfortable with the assembly of an AR and feel competent at it. Fortuitously, I have a lower receiver already. I ordered a LPK the other day and it has now arrived. I thought this may be a good project for the two of us to work on together.

Ok, background aside...

I'm trying to decide on these items:
chambering (.223/5.56 or 300BO) and buy completed upper or build from components.

Chambering-wise, I think the 300 would be less obnoxious to my daughter's ears. As a reloader with a stock of 30cal bullets on hand, I can go heavy subsonic to reduce the noise. However, .223 is nice and cheap (less than $7/20 at WM), to the extent I won't bother reloading. I have a threaded 308, so a suppressor could be in my future (not anytime soon though).

Buying a complete upper is simple, but I like the idea of shopping around for the exact components I want (or the best deals) and assembling it as parts come in. For example, I like Anderson's sporter upper. For our needs, we don't need dust shields, forward assists, etc. This would make for a simple gun with clean lines. Also, it would be an opportunity for her to see all of the components, how they work together, and gain a full understanding of how the rifle works.

One more thing, thoughts on Bear Creek barrels? I can't find any objective criticisms online. The few people who have them are happy. The naysayers seem to base their criticisms on price or on the build quality of complete rifles, without specific notes on machined parts. The prices are certainly attractive.

Thanks all,
Chris

[That Guy]

She's sensitive to noise though and won't touch my Glock (too loud according to her).

What kind of hearing protection does she use at the range? I'm wondering if better ears (and doubling up with plugs and muffs) wouldn't solve that issue?

[hufnagel]

I'd agree with Tony, in that I'd first address the noise sensitivity concerns. Maybe an investment in some SureFire earplugs or something similar that provide excellent protection to start with, then combined with some full coverage over the ear muffs if more is needed.

before diving into a rifle for her, do you have any friends with one she can sample shoot? .223/5.56 can report quite substantially, and I'd hate to see you invest in something she won't shoot.

[Malamute]

I'm somewhat sensitive to muzzle blast also. Carbines are particularly loud to me, to the point of not enjoying shooting them much. Ive been trying to lay hands on a Black River Tactical Covert Comp to try, which is supposed to reduce perceived muzzle blast to the shooter and those beside them. Havent received any reply to emails though.

A 22 conversion or dedicated 22 AR may be a good practice or starter item for her.

[BillSWPA]

I would encourage electronic muffs with disposable foam plugs underneath. The disposable foam is the only ear plug Inhave ever had success with.

Your daughter's wants, needs, and preferences are likely to change as she gets older. In addition to the adjustable stock, consider features that make changing the configuration easy. A Picatinny rail gas block, for example, will provide multiple front sight options as well as a possible way to mount a light (assuming top and side rail sections) if her purpose turns more serious in the future. A handguard with good mounting options would also be a good idea, but balance this with comfort for her support hand. She may want shooting slings at times and carry slings at times.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteveB]

I would encourage electronic muffs with disposable foam plugs underneath. The disposable foam is the only ear plug Inhave ever had success with.

Your daughter's wants, needs, and preferences are likely to change as she gets older. In addition to the adjustable stock, consider features that make changing the configuration easy. A Picatinny rail gas block, for example, will provide multiple front sight options as well as a possible way to mount a light (assuming top and side rail sections) if her purpose turns more serious in the future. A handguard with good mounting options would also be a good idea, but balance this with comfort for her support hand. She may want shooting slings at times and carry slings at times.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd start with a .22; you can even get one in pink:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-15-22-sport-m-lok-muddy-girl

[mtnbkr]

Regarding hearing protection, she uses the silicone swimmer's plugs (the ones that are moldable like putty) and non-electric muffs. I've used this combo before and it's about the best protection you can get at any price point IMO.


before diving into a rifle for her, do you have any friends with one she can sample shoot? .223/5.56 can report quite substantially, and I'd hate to see you invest in something she won't shoot.

None of my local friends have ARs. That was my first thought.


A 22 conversion or dedicated 22 AR may be a good practice or starter item for her.
I started out looking at dedicated 22lr ARs or 22lr conversions. Neither seemed a good financial investment (ie more than a dedicated non-AR 22lr rifle).

What are the options in a 22lr conversion (bolt/mag replacement, full upper, ???)?

That's why I thought the 300 would be a good idea since it should have less muzzle blast. I'm not opposed to a >16" barrel, but I do want it to remain handy for a kid-sized shooter.

Chris

[Malamute]

What are the options in a 22lr conversion (bolt/mag replacement, full upper, ???)?

I don't know whats on the market today. I have a Colt 22 conversion unit that replaces the bolt carrier. Its worked fine in the limited shooting ive done with it. I don't think they are common though.

[pdb]

Bargain basement AR builds are always trouble. You're asking for endless frustration chasing malfunctions and parts that don't fit quite right. Is that really the experience you want for your kid?

A $70 AR barrel is like a 50 cent cigar or $9 steak dinner, you know you're not going to be satisfied. And it's not like a real barrel costs that much more. Ballistic Advantage has a light profile 5.56 nitrided barrel for $170. Add $40 and they'll pin on a gas block for you.

Specifically, Bear Creek is a garbage company that ships garbage parts. Their reputation was so bad as Moore's Machine Co., that they had to pull a Todd Bailey and change names. No reason to do business with them.

I think with good ear protection and sticking with an A2 flash hider instead of a brake makes the 5.56 pleasant to shoot. I liked the linear compensator on my 10.5" .300, but I haven't tried one on a 5.56 yet.

Don't get me wrong, you can put together a perfectly good AR from parts and learn a lot while doing it, but putting together a mixmaster mutt of bottom dollar parts won't save you any money in the long run. Do it right the first time, or do it again.

[Malamute]

I'm somewhat sensitive to muzzle blast also. Carbines are particularly loud to me, to the point of not enjoying shooting them much. Ive been trying to lay hands on a Black River Tactical Covert Comp to try, which is supposed to reduce perceived muzzle blast to the shooter and those beside them. Havent received any reply to emails though.



Tried again and made contact. Hopefully can try it out soon.

[Edster]

I've found my M&P 15-22 to be incredibly useful. It's friendly to new and younger shooters. Plus it gives me a practice gun I can shoot cheaply and at ranges that don't alliw full rifle caliberz.

[HCM]

The barrel and the bolt carrier group are the two places you want the best quality you can afford. Ballistic advantage, Faxon and Ranier all make reasonably priced, good quality barrels.

Re: noise - the cheap Foam ear plugs (when used properly) or custom molded plugs combined with good conventional ear muffs provide the best protection. Any sort of active hearing is going to compromise the Noise Reduction. A suppressor is a great idea. A modular 30 caliber suppressor like a Silencerco Omega will work just fine on a 5.56 or .300. A longer barrel like an 18" or 20" may help mitigate the perceived noise as well.

Re: .22 LR. I would just buy a S&W 15-22. Colt no longer makes or supports the .22 kit malamute mentioned. CMMG makes conversion kits and complete .22 uppers. I have one of their uppers. I had some problems initially but CMMG made good on it and I have been happy with it. That said, I bought the upper about 6 months before S&W came out with their 15-22. The upper costs more than the 15-22 and the 15-22 mags are so good boonie packer makes an adaptor to use them in guns with CMMG uppers and kits.

[mtnbkr]

MP22: Not happening. If we wanted a rimfire, I'd just buy a 10/22 or model 60. Thing 1 liked the idea of a gun that could be changed just by swapping uppers.

Hearing Protection: We have that covered as well as possible.

Parts: Message received. I'll look at the names mentioned above.

What about caliber? 5.56 or 300? I don't have any hands-on with 300. I'm assuming it'll be less blasty, but would like a first-hand comparison.

Chris

[HopetonBrown]

The two of you should take a carbine class together in the very near future.

[HCM]

MP22: Not happening. If we wanted a rimfire, I'd just buy a 10/22 or model 60. Thing 1 liked the idea of a gun that could be changed just by swapping uppers.

Hearing Protection: We have that covered as well as possible.

Parts: Message received. I'll look at the names mentioned above.

What about caliber? 5.56 or 300? I don't have any hands-on with 300. I'm assuming it'll be less blasty, but would like a first-hand comparison.

Chris

300 is les blasty, particularly with sub sonic. 300 is also significantly more expensive but if you reload and don't plan on high-volume shooting it should be doable.

300 blackout is at its best at ranges < 200 yards. You can shoot it much farther than that but it becomes a science project and the juice is not really worth the squeeze. 300 blackout was originally developed for use in short barrel A.R. carbines as a replacement for and improvement on the performance of suppressed 9 mm submachine-guns. It does really well in that role and has proven to be a good medium game hunting round, filling a similar niche to lever action 3030 carbines. if you want to shoot longer distances keep in mind the 300 blackout was never intended or developed to be a general-purpose service rifle round.

If you are looking to do target shooting out to about 100 yards, you might consider a 9 mm A.R. Ammo costs are reasonable, it is less blast than 5.56 there is slightly more felt recoil then a 556 because the guns are blowback but the reduced muzzle blast will more than make up for this.

[Malamute]

Colt no longer makes or supports the .22 kit malamute mentioned...

Would you happen to know if theres any other magazines that work with the Colt 22 conversion?

[HCM]

Would you happen to know if theres any other magazines that work with the Colt 22 conversion?

This guy says the Black dog machine ( same as the CMMG and SIG 522) are supposed to work with the Colt kit but his sample of one did not work. It's worth noting black dog makes both plastic feed lip versions and steel feed lip versions. Since the cold kit uses steel feet… I would try that mag first.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/looserounds.com/2013/11/21/the-colt-22lr-ar15m16-conversion-kit/amp/?client=safari

The thing that makes the Smith and Wesson 15–22 so awesome is the magazine. If the black dog mags are supposed to be compatible, Boonie Packer's conversion block Allowing the Smith & Wesson magazines to work in CM MG/black dog pattern guns would be the way to go.

[mtnbkr]

I figured I would be loading subsonic once I got some brass accumulated. Our ranges only go out to 100yds, so no real need for long range capability. I did consider 9mm, but I can probably get "close enough" with handloads without the need for non-standard mags. Plus, if I get that 308 can, it'll be doubly useful (only have one 9mm and it doesn't have a threaded barrel).

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Thread bump now that the rifle is completed and a few hundred rounds have been fired through it.

I ended up completing the gun with a Radical Firearms 16" 223/5.56 upper from Brownells. I went that route because, with Brownell's warranty, I was assured of good support if it turned out to be a dog. I added a Magpul STR stock for the improved cheekweld. I started out with the Cabelas house brand AR scope (1-4x24), but didn't like the reticle and ended up returning it. I replaced it with a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot. It was on sale and seems to get good reviews. So far, I've put roughly 400 rounds through it with no malfunctions. Most of that has been TulAmmo (not very accurate), but a third has been higher quality stuff from Federal, Hornady, and other domestic producers. With the 1:7 barrel, it does best with quality 75gr loads. The longest distance I've shot it at so far was 50yds and it was doing better than an inch with the 1-4x scope.

What does Thing 1 think? At first, she was hesitant because of the noise, but she finally worked up the courage to try it (no pressure from me!). After a couple shots, she got into it and would have burned up all my ammo if I didn't make her stop so I could get in a mag of some new stuff I bought (75gr Prvi Partizan).

Mission accomplished I'd say. :)

BTW, I really hate "standard" AR triggers, but didn't want to dump big bucks into a match unit, so I gave this a try with the understanding that if it didn't work, I wouldn't be any worse off than if I went straight to the higher end market:
http://junkyardgenius.com/firearms/ar-15/ar08.html

It works well. The trigger isn't lighter, but is much shorter and easier to manage.

Chris

[ScotchMan]

Great to hear. No noise issues then?

[mtnbkr]

Nope. We always double up on hearing protection, so it was more of a psychological issue than actual pain or discomfort. Once she overcame the uncertainty, she was all over it.

Chris