HST Personal Defense vs. Law Enforcement Ammunition

[Tabasco]

Bought some of the 20 round PD HST (180gr .40) and then stumbled upon a couple boxes of LE variety in the 50 round boxes. Noticed the more expensive 20 round PD rounds were all shiny and new looking while the 50 round LE were pretty rough looking; a few dents on the case, brass showing through the nickle plating, black crud here and there. Is this typical of PD vs. LE production? Factory seconds maybe?

[Unobtanium]

Bought some of the 20 round PD HST (180gr .40) and then stumbled upon a couple boxes of LE variety in the 50 round boxes. Noticed the more expensive 20 round PD rounds were all shiny and new looking while the 50 round LE were pretty rough looking; a few dents on the case, brass showing through the nickle plating, black crud here and there. Is this typical of PD vs. LE production? Factory seconds maybe?

Could the LE have been LE trade-in ammo? Maybe the dept. unloads its carry mags instead of shooting them, when they trade ammo in?

[Al T.]

Is this typical of PD vs. LE production?

Not in my experience at all. :confused:

[JBP55]

I have fired cases of 9mm HST and currently own a few cases and I have not seen any as described by the Op. As stated earlier the 50 round boxes may be LEA trades.

[Tabasco]

The brass showing is not from scratches, but thin nickle plating FWIW. The rounds look new except for they are not bright and shiny and have the dings and gunk mentioned. It was cheaper than the pretty civilian packaged stuff. When LE trades in ammo, what does that mean? Old stock?

[Lomshek]

All the 50 round boxes of HST 9mm I've bought have been extremely clean shiny ammo. No tarnish, scratches or gunk.

I agree with Unobtanium that it sounds like you bought ammo that had been carried in magazines for a while but never fired then returned to a box and sold.

[RJ]

I just looked at my (very small) sample of Federal P9HST2. All cases are nice shiny nickel plated, well finished with no gunk or otherwise.

[Hambo]

Could the LE have been LE trade-in ammo? Maybe the dept. unloads its carry mags instead of shooting them, when they trade ammo in?

Really? I've never heard of a department that traded in ammo. One SWAT team did trade it's rifle brass at a local shop, but I think that was an off the books deal to stretch their training dollars.

Where did this dingy HST come from?

[ST911]

All my P9HST2 has been shiney and obviously new. It does come with varying amounts of some sort of dry film on it that discolors shooter hands or the insides of cargo pockets if you pour a couple boxes in.


Really? I've never heard of a department that traded in ammo.

More common than you might think.

[Hambo]

More common than you might think.

That's not confidence inspiring, in more ways than one.

[Kyle Reese]

All of my HST purchased from GT Distributors has been brand new production. I'd shoot up the questionable stuff or save it to vet a new carry gun later.

[Tabasco]

All of my HST purchased from GT Distributors has been brand new production. I'd shoot up the questionable stuff or save it to vet a new carry gun later.

That's the plan. I think these were factory seconds, there is sticker residue on one of the end flaps and it looks like there was a sticker removed from back upper left hand corner above the ballistics info table. All the defects look to be manufacturing defects, one box is almost perfect (except for dings in the case), the other has thin nickel plating on about 1/4 of the box, along with dings and random black crusty stuff.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

A manufacturer selling previously carried ammo as new product and failing to disclose same...

Oh please, let that be true!

I smell blood in the water!

[DocGKR]

New LE HST should NOT look that way. You either received factory seconds, used trade-in ammo, or reloaded ammo. In any event, you were defrauded...

[Tabasco]

I suspect it was an honest mistake on the part of the retailer. I've contacted them with the above information.

[Dismas316]

Interesting timing of his post. I just ordered some from gt today, will pay close attention when I get it.

[Kyle Reese]

If they don't rectify the situation, I'd out them here, so others don't give their business to them.

[Tabasco]

My suspicion (and hope) is that some one got a hold of some HST factory seconds, peeled the "Factory Seconds" stickers off and either sold them to the retailer in question, or to a distributor and the retailer purchased them from the distributor. I don't think the retailer is selling them as "Factory Firsts" or whatever you call the good legit stuff on purpose, but I'm a nice guy which gets me into trouble sometimes. I'll definitely make it known if things turn out differently.

[Robinson]

The HST 9mm ammo I've used has always been obvious new production. I have some on the way, I'll be sure to check it closely when it arrives.

[LSW]

That is strange. When I used to get issued HST by a DHS agency, it came brass cased without the nickel plating and labled as "40 S&W 180 GRAIN HST(tm) JHP XM40HC". The brass was definitely a little less clean than the commercially sold, P40HST1 with nickel plating, and it had some light black residue/specks, but nothing to the extent you're describing. If I recall correctly, it chronographed the same as the commercially sold ammo out of my pistols.

[ST911]

That is strange. When I used to get issued HST by a DHS agency, it came brass cased without the nickel plating and labled as "40 S&W 180 GRAIN HST(tm) JHP XM40HC". The brass was definitely a little less clean than the commercially sold, P40HST1 with nickel plating, and it had some light black residue/specks, but nothing to the extent you're describing. If I recall correctly, it chronographed the same as the commercially sold ammo out of my pistols.

Normal, seen also in rifle ammo (GDSP 24447). They spec'ed brass instead of nickel for some loads. Some was also available commercially.

[JonInWA]

The brass-cased HST that I've got is in immaculate condition.

Best, Jon

[RJ]

Could I ask, what is the purpose of nickel plating cartridges?

Is that generally for corrosion resistance?

[Dave J]

Could I ask, what is the purpose of nickel plating cartridges?

Is that generally for corrosion resistance?

Yes. Brass ammo develops green verdigris fairly quickly when carried in traditional leather duty gear.

[Tamara]

the 50 round LE were pretty rough looking; a few dents on the case, brass showing through the nickle plating, black crud here and there.

I shoot rather a lot of Federal HST in various calibers in the 50-rd boxes, and have never once encountered that.

AFAIK the greater per-round price on the commercial market stuff is just a combination of a greater markup and those goofy jewelry boxes that show off the pretty hollowpoint so Cletus will know what his BBs will look like without having to tear a box flap.

[Tabasco]

Looks like the suspect ammo has been pulled from their site while they check it out.

[Nephrology]

Have shot a few hundred 147gr 9mm and 180gr .40 HSTs in the last few months. All rounds were in impeccable condition. Your ammo just sounds old/oxidized. Good to practice with but I would probalby not carry it as a first, second, or third resort...

[41magfan]

I'll just echo some of the commentary already expressed based on my own personal experience;

- I've never heard of "Seconds" being offered by any of the major domestic players and the reasons for that should be pretty obvious.

- Trade-in ammo is a pretty common practice when LE agencies make changes. This stuff is usually re-sold at steeply discounted prices and while it may show signs of handling and storage, that should be extent of the wear and tear. Broken cases are accepted in trade-in situations so anomalies in the condition described by the OP may certainly exist, but I don't think it's the norm.

- In some cases, LE packaging can be plain-Jane compared to the same loading bound for the commercial market, but the product itself is the same.