View Full Version : Diesel Trucks - To DEF or Not to DEF
I have a 2012 Chevy 2500 Duramax with 60k miles on it.
I'm supposed to be on the road to a family wedding. Instead I'm at my local Chevy dealer. The Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) system is not recognizing that there is DEF in the tank so it is restricting the power and speed of the vehicle.
They are still trying to figure out the cause.
This is the second time this has happened. The last time was about three months ago while on a road trip. I was stuck overnight it eventually cleared / re-set itself.
Emissions testing is not required for my city and I've had two other mechanics advise me to take the vehicle to a a diesel specialty shop and have the DEF / emissions system removed.
I've noted the warranty on the DEF system is half of the warranty on the rest of the power train.
What are the pros / cons of simply removing the system ?
Nothing but pros dude. Emissions are diesel killers. DEF delete, EGR delete, DPF delete, intake, and maybe a small programmer.
https://freedomdieselperformance.com/minimaxx-dpf-def-cat-egr-delete-ultimate-performance-package-for-duramax-lml-6-6l-2013-15.html?gclid=CjwKEAjwj92_BRDQ-NuC98SZkWYSJACWmjhll_U5cHzM3lKssOPLibYVRosm-zsQdvVvqRf1rLYLHBoC90Dw_wcB
JM Campbell
10-07-2016, 12:54 PM
Hans, we are on the cusp of emissions testing in our area. It's a crap shoot if it really happens. DPS has said it for the last 5 years that we were going to become a emissions restricted county.
I hate def period, if you buy and use old stock it can mess with the sensor in your def tank/basicly it crystallizes and clogs the sensor, also if you run it to low same issue can happen. Might also have a seal or hole in tank allowing environment contamination of fluid.
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Hans, we are on the cusp of emissions testing in our area. It's a crap shoot if it really happens. DPS has said it for the last 5 years that we were going to become a emissions restricted county.
I hate def period, if you buy and use old stock it can mess with the sensor in your def tank/basicly it crystallizes and clogs the sensor, also if you run it to low same issue can happen. Might also have a seal or hole in tank allowing environment contamination of fluid.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
I heard the same re: emissions testing in our area and it will likely include adjacent counties.
Normally the truck gives a warning the DEF is low before going into limp mode but these last two times it has gone directly into limp mode so it may have gotten too low,
txdpd
10-07-2016, 02:03 PM
It's against state and federal law to tamper with or remove emissions equipment from a motor vehicle operated on a highway, and even off highway vehicles in some cases. DEF/DPF/EGR is a pain in the ass but on the remote chance you are caught or the state starts cracking down on inspection shops that pass deleted diesels, it's going to cost a lot to get out of trouble. Now that inspections are in a state database, getting failed and finding a different shop is going to be thing of the past. The state doesn't have to start emissions testing, they just have to start handing out $25K tickets to shops that don't report and fail deleted diesels.
I arrested a guy disorderly conduct for coal rolling some bicyclist. He had a duramax and the missing DEF tank was pretty obvious. Just because he pissed me off, I reported him to the EPA. They hit him with over $50K in civil fines and made him reinstall the emissions equipment or forfeit the truck. That had to be factory new equipment, and that was somewhere around $15K. That's a special case, but sometimes we can all learn from the stupidity of others.
No issues with DEF in our '16 Ram with the 6.7 Cummins. About 23,500 miles to date. I dunno, maybe it is all the highway miles?
Our 2009 Mercedes Sprinter 2500 3.0l V6 had no DEF, and ran like a top. I've heard that MBZ has had a lot of issues with the BluTec Sprinters from 2010 forward.
Sorry to hear HCM, hope you get back on the road soon.
I just got the truck back.
The good news is they were able to clear the computer and get it out of limp mode. The other good news is since it appears to be a problem with the engine computer, it was covered under the powertrain warranty.
The bad news is they still don't know why this issue is occurring. They said they could not determine the cause because "no codes were stored".
Welder
10-07-2016, 04:36 PM
I arrested a guy disorderly conduct for coal rolling some bicyclist.
I wish we'd see more arrests like these in my area. I've never had it done to me (yet), but hope I'll keep my temper to a dull roar if it does. I own and work with diesel equipment, and the idea of smogging someone out with it is right up there with the knockout game in my mind. Not sure why it bothers me so much, but it does.
olstyn
10-07-2016, 05:13 PM
I arrested a guy disorderly conduct for coal rolling some bicyclist.
Speaking as a bicyclist, bravo sir. Bravo and thank you. :)
I wish we'd see more arrests like these in my area. I've never had it done to me (yet), but hope I'll keep my temper to a dull roar if it does.
Agreed, and me too. Of course, even leaving out the motor vehicle vs bicycle speed difference and the attendant unlikelihood of being able to catch up to the offender, a lungful of diesel soot would probably keep me from being able to physically express my displeasure anyway.
My understanding is you have to do more than just not have emissions equipment to "roll coal". You have to tune the game ngine and exhaust for that. They only started adding emissions to diesels around 2010 -2012.
Heck, I don't even have a set of Trucknutz.
texasaggie2005
10-07-2016, 07:11 PM
My understanding is you have to do more than just not have emissions equipment to "roll coal". You have to tune the game ngine and exhaust for that. They only started adding emissions to diesels around 2010 -2012.
Heck, I don't even have a set of Trucknutz.
Naw, I could easily roll coal in my stock '99 Cummins. Do about 10mph in 2nd, then drop it into 5th gear and floor it. Could kill mosquitos a county over.
My stock '06 Cummins could roll, just not as "thick".
I hated rollin', cuz it meant i was wasting fuel, and looking like a retard.
NETim
10-07-2016, 08:24 PM
I dearly love my '02 Cummins. Ain't got none o' that crap on it. :)
fixer
10-08-2016, 07:44 AM
emissions controls on diesels are so badly hated even the OEMs hate them.
I could go on about this for 3 pages....but my time with an oem that was developing a 4.4L diesel for a half ton pick up was eye opening.
We never understood the benefit of purposefully injecting fuel into the exhaust stream to help catalyze emissions; or putting throttles on an engine to develop DP to draw in exhaust...all things that dramatically and materially lower the efficiency of an engine...which is harmful to the environment.
The things that an oem can do with a modern DI turbo diesel are simply stunning...if the after treatment and egr is taken off.
Mike C
10-08-2016, 11:19 AM
Where does one begin to look for a place to take the DEF system off? I've got a Canyon with a baby Duramax and want to find a place to rip mine out. Power and fuel consumption aside I'd settle for simply avoiding issues later with the system.
Why would you remove the DEF system instead of trading in for the gas version? Genuinely curious, I've had awful experiences with the 2009 VW Touareg and 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee diesels, and I traded them in. They were both great when they ran, but when mostly they don't it's not like you're taking Old Yeller out behind the barn. Swap it out for something satisfactory.
^^^ that's not a real diesel. That's a Prius that just happens to use diesel.
Anybody driving a 2500/3500 true is gonna get less than 12mpg usually, same truck with a duramax/powerstroke/Cummins would be like 18 +
mmc45414
10-09-2016, 09:35 AM
A close friend has recently done the exhaust and tuner with DEF delete on his Duramax and the thing is remarkable. And it is getting solid mileage. But as mentioned, it is a commitment and if they implement inspections and testing where you live it will be a big deal.
His tuner has a mode that is supposed to be "stock", and it sounds like there is a lot of latitude on how they can set it. If the limp mode is your main issue, wonder if a turner could be set up to not eliminate the DEF, but not impose the limp mode when you are supposed to be going someplace?
Poconnor
10-09-2016, 10:06 AM
I have a Ford F-250 6.7 diesel. I love the power and the gas mileage but I often wonder how much better it would be without the def. I don't trust the EPA science because I think ethanol is bad for everyone, the ventless fuel cans cause more fuel spilled than they prevented and what they did to Harley Davidson was an example a bad big government. Not to mention I wish we could get the same diesel cars, suvs and small trucks the rest of the world gets
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