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View Full Version : Last match of the year tonight. Low light match.



JodyH
11-19-2011, 09:42 AM
For the last match of the year I designed 5 low light stages for our outdoor range "concealed carry" match.
Disco ball, Christmas lights, strobe light and the headlights on our junker truck are ready to roll.
Should be a blast.
My plan is to take some pics and videos.

theblacknight
11-19-2011, 09:56 AM
thats a lot of lights for being low light.

JodyH
11-19-2011, 10:25 AM
Low light isn't just no light, it's varying light conditions.
Most stage will also have walls and barrels that will cast some serious shadows.
The CCW match requires target identification for shoot/no-shoot (open hands or a knife or gun spray painted on the target are the identifiers) so dim light is fine for seeing but you still have to identify. We also have a no-shoot "sheriff" target which has a gun and a badge painted on.
Add in a few dual simultaneous drop turns with swappable identifiers and ID is the hard part.
I've already been to the range a few nights ago to test some of my lighting ideas, our range is rural outdoors and will be pitch black dark tonight... it'll be a tough match.

The stages are:
1: Flashlight/weaponlight only stage with progressively darker cubby holes and distant targets that require shoot/no-shoot identification.
2: Dim supplemental light stage, one string of small Christmas lights and the small rotating disco ball on near targets, far targets require a light.
3: A "bright light in your face" stage where your handheld/weaponlight has to overcome the bright light shining directly at you.
4: A headlights only stage where the dim yellowish '80's headlights on our junker truck are the only illumination out to 25 yards.
5: A strobe light/emergency light stage with multiple moving targets.

ToddG
11-19-2011, 10:42 AM
Sounds awesome, Jody!

jthhapkido
11-19-2011, 08:23 PM
The stages are:
1: Flashlight/weaponlight only stage with progressively darker cubby holes and distant targets that require shoot/no-shoot identification.
2: Dim supplemental light stage, one string of small Christmas lights and the small rotating disco ball on near targets, far targets require a light.
3: A "bright light in your face" stage where your handheld/weaponlight has to overcome the bright light shining directly at you.
4: A headlights only stage where the dim yellowish '80's headlights on our junker truck are the only illumination out to 25 yards.
5: A strobe light/emergency light stage with multiple moving targets.

That sounds like a TON of fun. (Plus some seriously good opportunities for learning, there.) I wish we could do something like that here---but no shooting is allowed at our range after dusk.

When I win the lottery, the range I'm going to build is going to be epic, and allow some of this stuff to happen...

JodyH
11-20-2011, 09:33 AM
I took 1st place overall in the low light match.
The wife was 4th or 5th in the doublestack division.
We had around 20 shooters, and everyone had a good time.
Only one shooter shot the match with zero penalties.
Unfortunately no pics because I was RO'ing and the wife was scoring so we never had any free time.

My gear:
H&K P2000Sk 9mm LEM, Trijicon NS
HighNoon Hideaway AIWB
Reloaded from a DeSantis Magpacker in my left front pocket
Surefire Aviator light in my left rear pocket
Hoodie was my concealment

Wifes gear:
Glock 19, Ameriglo Hackathorn sights
Viridian C5L light/green laser weaponlight
Fricke Archangel light holster AIWB
Comp-Tac dbl. mag carrier
Light jacket was her concealment

A few things I observed as RO.
Weapon mounted laser/light combinations were the best thing since sliced bread. The people who had them (wife included) shot as good or better than they do in the day matches. They are a HUGE low light advantage.
Weapon mounted lights were right behind in being an advantage.
Lasers only were an advantage, but not as much as just a mounted light and not even close to the combos.
Handheld lights were kicking the ass of people who don't train with them, they were always casting shadows or aimed off into space.

People lost track of their location in the dark and were exposing themselves out of cover a lot.
Then there's "beam fixation" they were focusing on the brightest part of their light beam and not seeing targets at the periphery of their light.

Lot's of good stuff.
People had a blast and learned a lot.

JDM
11-20-2011, 10:08 AM
I really need to drive 2.5 hours south in the near future. Sounds like a hell of a time.

GJM
11-20-2011, 10:47 AM
A few things I observed as RO.
Weapon mounted laser/light combinations were the best thing since sliced bread. The people who had them (wife included) shot as good or better than they do in the day matches. They are a HUGE low light advantage.
Weapon mounted lights were right behind in being an advantage.
Lasers only were an advantage, but not as much as just a mounted light and not even close to the combos.
Handheld lights were kicking the ass of people who don't train with them, they were always casting shadows or aimed off into space.

People lost track of their location in the dark and were exposing themselves out of cover a lot.
Then there's "beam fixation" they were focusing on the brightest part of their light beam and not seeing targets at the periphery of their light.

Lot's of good stuff.
People had a blast and learned a lot.

Not sure the distance of the targets, but did you see an advantage to a laser like the Crimson Trace for the M&P that is very close to the bore axis of the pistol, versus an X400 style laser, where there is substantial offset making the exact distance the laser is zeroed for more important? I assume shooters using a remote pressure pad to activate their light had an advantage?

JodyH
11-20-2011, 10:59 AM
Not sure the distance of the targets, but did you see an advantage to a laser like the Crimson Trace for the M&P that is very close to the bore axis of the pistol, versus an X400 style laser, where there is substantial offset making the exact distance the laser is zeroed for more important? I assume shooters using a remote pressure pad to activate their light had an advantage?
Max distance target was 25 yards, closest was around 3 yards.
The offset really didn't make any difference that I could tell.
There were a few precision shots at around 7 yards ("hostage shot" head shots) and I didn't notice any difference between a Crimson Trace, Viridian and the Surefire.
I know the wifes Viridian is sighted in at 12 yards and the Surefire was sighted in at 25 yards, not sure about the CT.
I didn't really see any differences in where the switch was located either, but then again everyone turned them on and left them on, nobody was using the momentary functions.

GJM
11-20-2011, 11:14 AM
The reason I asked about offset, was my inability to make an X400 work for me. After several unhappy sight in sessions with an X400 and an HK45, I studied the effect of the offset, and realized it was never work satisfactorily for me over a range of distances. (The M&P CT product works great for me.)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/laser.jpg

7 yard X400 zero:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/7yardzero.jpg

50 yard X400 zero:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/50yardzero.jpg

The only X400 zero that worked across a range of realistic distances, was a 50 yard zero, but that placed the bullet about 3 inches high all the way to 25 yards. Using a 7 yard zero, for example, I started 3 inches high at the muzzle and was already 6 inches low at 20 yards. With the M&P, I have the laser basically parallel to the bore, and they are so close, I can hold right on from muzzle to 50 yards.

Lon
11-20-2011, 12:27 PM
How's that Viridian light? I looked at them at the LGS and wondered how they would work out.

JodyH
11-21-2011, 08:54 AM
How's that Viridian light? I looked at them at the LGS and wondered how they would work out.

It works so well I own 2 of the C5L's and the P22 laser for my boy.
The light is only a small 100 lumen LED but is plenty for indoors and out to 25 yards outdoors.
During Sundays day match (same stages as night match) you could see the wifes green laser out to 15 yards easily on the buff targets. The Surefire red was much dimmer at the same distance.
Im not sold on lasers for day shooting, but at night they are a big advantage.

Any gun that does nightstand duty at my house now has a C5L installed.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

ToddG
11-21-2011, 11:42 AM
GJM -- There are some folks who recommend purposely zeroing a laser for parallel (constant offset) rather than a true "zero." I've never found that helpful but I'm also not used to accounting for offset on a carbine the way many people are nowadays.

I usually zeroed my CTs at 15yd. The CTs are only about 1" off from the bore compared to an under barrel laser which is often 2-3".

GJM
11-21-2011, 01:24 PM
After messing with the X400, because of the large bore offset, I found a parallel zero (which worked out to about a 50 yard zero) the only one that made sense for the Surefire unit. A closer zero made for a trajectory like a black powder rifle at 300 yards. However, that put the bullet three inches high all the way to 25 yards, and then slowly converging to 50 yards. (You can see the bullet drop charts on the previous page of this thread) That three inches was too distracting for me, in terms of my iron sight picture, and opposite of my AR zero, so I put the X400 aside. I got the CT laser for the M&P on your recommendation, and the laser is close enough to the bore that it works great for me. I tried for a parallel zero on that (bullet to be a constant one inch left), but it is all so close, I can't be certain whether I have a parallel or converging zero. :)

A few more thoughts on the low light stage. Jody mentioned that most people turned their light/laser on for the duration. I still remember having a light ND, ahead of the shot at Rogers, messing with a Glock remote tape on my HK 45, and hearing Bill yelling across the range to "get that light out."

Also, it would have been interesting if Jody forced shooters to make some shots one hand, as that would quickly have pointed out the value of a remote switch like on the X300. I think the M&P, CT laser, and X300 with remote switch is the ideal night set-up for a handgun.

JodyH
11-21-2011, 02:12 PM
The concept of "light discipline" is foreign to people with no low light training.
It would be difficult to police that during a match, so we just let people shoot the way they probably would if they heard the "bump in the night".
If I had a group of experienced low light shooters in a training atmosphere I'd hold them to a much higher standard.

GJM
11-21-2011, 05:04 PM
Jody, that is the beauty of the web, folks get to sit at their keyboard, or in my case an iPad, and tell you in hindsight what you could improve. :)

Kidding aside, you should be commended for having a low light match. Since our home base in Alaska, and half the year we have more darkness than daylight, but our bird dog still expects to recreate, we have a keen interest in night equipment and tactics.