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holmes168
10-04-2016, 06:46 AM
Ok- I am in a rare situation where there is money burning a hole in my pocket!

I had been thinking about picking up a new pistol, but already own four- two of which I swap for ccw depending on the season.

You can only shoot one at a time- so this got me to thinking.........

One of the main stumbling blocks to shooting more is the cost of the ammunition.

Looking for the communities thoughts- new pistol or a Dillon 550 reloader.........???
After the initial set up- if I save my spent brass is the reloading equipment really a money saver? I don't mind spending the time if there is a savings.

Thanks!

Luke
10-04-2016, 07:07 AM
How much do you shoot? If I only shot a couple hundred a month I might not fool with it. I sometimes shoot 2k a month so I basically have to reload. If I was rich I'd never reload.

Another thing to consider is a possible ammo drought, if you buy a press and 8 pounds of powder and the consumables to go with that then you could be set for a while.

Don't forget about the things that go with a press; a way to wash brass, scale, set of calipers.. ect.

I don't know the exact amount, mostly because I don't care, but I'm around $5 per 50. Definitely cheaper.

Hambo
10-04-2016, 08:09 AM
After the initial set up- if I save my spent brass is the reloading equipment really a money saver? I don't mind spending the time if there is a savings.

No, but you can tell your wife that if you want.

camsdaddy
10-04-2016, 08:26 AM
In theory there is savings. In reality I get to shoot more.

CCT125US
10-04-2016, 09:00 AM
Go for the reloading set up. You have guns that are useless without ammo. As previously stated, you don't save money, you shoot more. Buy the 550 and balance the purchase of powder and primers. Meaning one doesn't work without the other. For example my current load uses 4.9 gr of Unique. There are 7000 gr per pound. So a good starting point is 3 lbs and 4K primers, if you want a balanced supply. As a side note my component cost is about $6 for 50 rds of 9mm. When I can buy factory for $13 or so, I do. I only consume my stock when times are lean. I believe we are approaching very lean times.

olstyn
10-04-2016, 09:24 AM
Cheapest junk 9mm you can buy is usually around $10/50 rounds. I reload for around $13/100 rounds. As others have said, cost savings are not the only factor; it's a lot easier to weather shortages if you reload, plus you get to tailor your load to your gun(s). One piece of advice, though: when you buy components, do it in bulk - the pricing is WAY better that way. Buy powder in 4 or 8 pound jugs, buy bullets by the 3000+ round case, etc. When you buy powder online, buy primers at the same time, and buy as much as you can afford, so you spread the hazmat shipping fee around. The individual purchases seem big (a case of coated bullets will run you ~$250, for example), but it's a lot better than buying 500 rounds at a time.

BehindBlueI's
10-04-2016, 09:29 AM
I *like* reloading. I find it relaxing. I use an old turret press, nothing high-speed, and just sit and crank out rounds. If you find you enjoy the process, the savings and ability to shoot more is just a bonus. If you don't enjoy it, and you find it a chore, then perhaps instead of a new pistol or reloading press, a few cases of ammo would be the best option. Depending on how much you shoot and how much "chore time" you're willing to put up with.

FPS
10-04-2016, 09:46 AM
Reloading equipment definitely. It will sort of save money in the long run but it will take a lot of 9mm to make up for the cost. 9mm is not a huge money saver. Now, get into the more expensive calibers and it becomes a no-brainer.

JAD
10-04-2016, 11:47 AM
The logic is pretty straightforward: if all your guns are worn out, you shoot enough, and need a new pistol. If all your guns are not worn out, you aren't shooting enough, and need more ammo.

okie john
10-04-2016, 12:06 PM
How much money are we talking?


Okie John

LittleLebowski
10-04-2016, 12:17 PM
Do you like to work with your hands? My vote is reloader but you have to be prepared for a learning process. Personally, I quite enjoy my reloading journey so far and am grateful for the opportunity. Nothing better than firing up some Archer or UFC and making some ammo.

Malamute
10-04-2016, 12:37 PM
Reloading gear. Being able to make ammo is a big deal to me. I also buy odd bullet molds when I find them at gunshows, even if I don't have an immediate need or desire to cast. Have found some interesting and actually useful molds that way.

Reloading is interesting and fun to me. In the past, it was a big part of enjoying shooting. Even if its sitting gathering dust for the time being, I like having whats required to make ammo.

LittleLebowski
10-04-2016, 12:44 PM
I know I'm being negative but if I was looking at getting into reloading in October 2016, the first things I would buy would be primers and powder in order to be panic proof in case of bad news in November. as a panic will destroy reloading supplies stocks but reloading equipment per se will still be around during a panic. I'm practicing what I preach, too.

Malamute
10-04-2016, 12:45 PM
I know I'm being negative but if I was looking at getting into reloading in October 2016, the first things I would buy would be primers and powder in order to be panic proof in case of bad news in November. as a panic will destroy reloading supplies stocks but reloading equipment per se will still be around during a panic. I'm practicing what I preach, too.

Very good point.

CCT125US
10-04-2016, 12:49 PM
I know I'm being negative but if I was looking at getting into reloading in October 2016, the first things I would buy would be primers and powder in order to be panic proof in case of bad news in November. as a panic will destroy reloading supplies stocks but reloading equipment per se will still be around during a panic. I'm practicing what I preach, too.

Very much this. Folks tend to snap up components first. $30 here, $50 there is a smaller commitment than several hundred for a press. Grab the low hanging fruit while it's plentiful.


ETA: Even if all you end up with is components, you probably know someone with the means of production.

Hambo
10-04-2016, 01:21 PM
I would buy would be primers and powder in order to be panic proof

Which is what starts the panic.

LittleLebowski
10-04-2016, 02:14 PM
Which is what starts the panic.

Well, if purchasing four 8lb kegs and a few thousand primers starts a panic, then it was a good idea to beat everyone else to the punch :cool:

richiecotite
10-04-2016, 02:18 PM
I sold a prelock s&w 357 to fund my Dillon.

That's about the only gun I have no sellers remorse about.

Also, if funds won't allow a Dillon, a Lee classic turret is a great machine, that's extremely affordable and versatile.

My Dillon is set up for 9mm, and I have turret heads for 357 and 41 for the Lee. If you switch calibers often, and don't shoot a whole lot for one particular caliber, the Lee might be the better choice. With practice, you can load 200 rds per hour on the Lee (though I usually hit around 150)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

olstyn
10-04-2016, 02:42 PM
Well, if purchasing four 8lb kegs and a few thousand primers starts a panic, then it was a good idea to beat everyone else to the punch :cool:

Seems well within reason to me. I've got a full and a partial 4-pounder of N320 sitting on my bench, along with a nearly full pound of CFE-Pistol and a half or third of a pound of Unique. N320 is the primary, and I figure when I have to open the full one, it'll be time to start looking to buy another 8 pounds. Worst case, if availability becomes a problem, 4 pounds of N320 lasts me a pretty good amount of time, and I've got the CFE-P and Unique as a backup if I need them. You're better stocked, but I'd hardly call you a hoarder. :)

deputyG23
10-04-2016, 02:54 PM
I *like* reloading. I find it relaxing. I use an old turret press, nothing high-speed, and just sit and crank out rounds. If you find you enjoy the process, the savings and ability to shoot more is just a bonus. If you don't enjoy it, and you find it a chore, then perhaps instead of a new pistol or reloading press, a few cases of ammo would be the best option. Depending on how much you shoot and how much "chore time" you're willing to put up with.
I am another who enjoys the process of reloading. If you shoot a lot of revolver, the savings of reload v. factory can be substantial. My component cost for .38 special is about $5.50 per fifty. The same fifty factory rounds locally cost about $18-$20.

GuanoLoco
10-04-2016, 03:09 PM
No brainer - reloading, control your destiny.

holmes168
10-04-2016, 05:39 PM
Thank you to everyone who sent feedback today- needless to say- I checked my phone a few hundred times at work.

I agree that reloading in the long run makes the most sense. I have looked into the Dillon 550 and it seems to be highly recommended.

I will search other threads for input- but if someone can give the items I need on this thread it will save some work.

As an FYI- I only shoot 9mm and 5.56/.223- which means that is all I will reload. I want to learn for 6 months or so by doing the 9mm.

Any advice on what I need? Since I will only do the 2 calibers is the 550 best idea for me.

I had thought about starting on a single stage, but don't want to go out spend that money- then six months later buy another press. However- that may be my best route.

Thank all of you for your guidance.

Clusterfrack
10-04-2016, 05:50 PM
I recommend spending extra for a Dillon 650 for 9mm, and not reloading 5.56.

GuanoLoco
10-04-2016, 06:06 PM
I would have to agree with that. You might even consider a quality AR-9 for practice.. By the time you go through all of the expense of loading 223 you would been better off with the AR-9 and buying any 223 you need to.

My 9 mm reloading investments paid them selves off quickly but I am sir I am still in the hole on 223. Then again, I mostly shoot 9mm in practice.

FPS
10-04-2016, 06:18 PM
I'm sure I will get flak for this but most of the double charges I hear about on the Interwebz are from loading with a Dillon 550. I am sure it is rare, but it was one of the reasons I grabbed a 650 so I can have space for a powdercheck and not obsess over it. YMMV.

JAD
10-04-2016, 06:39 PM
Which is what starts the panic.

That would be other people's panic.

CCT125US
10-04-2016, 07:01 PM
I'm sure I will get flak for this but most of the double charges I hear about on the Interwebz are from loading with a Dillon 550. I am sure it is rare, but it was one of the reasons I grabbed a 650 so I can have space for a powdercheck and not obsess over it. YMMV.

Agreed 100%. For 9mm with a bulky Powder such as Unique it is easy to visually check. In a longer case such as .38 special or 5.56 I would strongly advise against the 550. Since the 650 auto indexes, it makes it harder to double charge, not impossible though. Depending on one's mechanical aptitude a new reloader may want to start with a single stage or turret press just to learn the steps. If they don't take to reloading they are not out much. If they want to increase output, they can move onto a progressive.

FPS
10-04-2016, 07:12 PM
I started with a Lee Classic Turret and moved into the 650 after a year and a half and very glad I did that. I still use the Turret on lower volume calibers and for single stage tasks, works great for me.

Clusterfrack
10-04-2016, 07:20 PM
I'm sure I will get flak for this but most of the double charges I hear about on the Interwebz are from loading with a Dillon 550. I am sure it is rare, but it was one of the reasons I grabbed a 650 so I can have space for a powdercheck and not obsess over it. YMMV.

Good post. Double charges are pretty rare in 9mm, but will ruin your day for sure.

Zero charges are much more common. A RCBS lockout die will prevent both.

olstyn
10-04-2016, 07:35 PM
I'm sure I will get flak for this but most of the double charges I hear about on the Interwebz are from loading with a Dillon 550. I am sure it is rare, but it was one of the reasons I grabbed a 650 so I can have space for a powdercheck and not obsess over it. YMMV.


Agreed 100%. For 9mm with a bulky Powder such as Unique it is easy to visually check. In a longer case such as .38 special or 5.56 I would strongly advise against the 550. Since the 650 auto indexes, it makes it harder to double charge, not impossible though. Depending on one's mechanical aptitude a new reloader may want to start with a single stage or turret press just to learn the steps. If they don't take to reloading they are not out much. If they want to increase output, they can move onto a progressive.


Good post. Double charges are pretty rare in 9mm, but will ruin your day for sure.

Zero charges are much more common. A RCBS lockout die will prevent both.

Agreed with all of you. The only thing I'll add is that the Hornady LnL AP is another good 650-like option. It's also a 5-station autoindexing progressive press, and it's about the price of the Dillon 550. Regarding the RCBS lockout die, I personally went with the Hornady Powder Cop die, but either will do the job and provide a significant measure of peace of mind.

holmes168
10-04-2016, 07:38 PM
I really appreciate all the feedback. I was able to sell the wife on lower priced ammo!!!

So glad I posted before buying- the information here really is a big help making decisions and people taking time to help a newbie is awesome.

holmes168
10-04-2016, 07:44 PM
I recommend spending extra for a Dillon 650 for 9mm, and not reloading 5.56.

No 5.56 but .223 ok?

mmc45414
10-04-2016, 07:47 PM
A few months ago I would say 550, but I just bought a 650 and it sure is nice.

If you want to you could drop one case in without a case feed and run them one at at a time until you are comfortable with the process.

I also really like my 9mm AR.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Clusterfrack
10-04-2016, 07:57 PM
No 5.56 but .223 ok?

Sorry for being too brief. Reloading .223 or 5.56 requires a lot of equipment--trimmer, swager, etc. Not worth it unless you shoot a lot. If I didn't have a 1050 I probably wouldn't bother.

JCS
10-04-2016, 08:59 PM
I would also vote for reloading equipment. Your budget will dictate the press and equipment.

As someone who recently started reloading, I can't imagine starting on a progressive press.

But buying a press alone is like someone buying a gun and no gear, ammo or training to go with it. Save a few hundred of your budget to buy powder and primer. I wish I had done that when I started.

olstyn
10-04-2016, 09:18 PM
Sorry for being too brief. Reloading .223 or 5.56 requires a lot of equipment--trimmer, swager, etc. Not worth it unless you shoot a lot. If I didn't have a 1050 I probably wouldn't bother.

If I ever get around to owning a 5.56/.223 rifle, I intend to reload for it, but that's with the understanding that it's going to require additional purchases beyond what I've got right now. A basic trimmer doesn't seem absurdly expensive, neither does the Dillon swager, and of course the dies are no more than any other caliber. Unless I'm missing something (please tell me if I am), adding basic .223/5.56 capability to my existing setup would cost a little over $300 including buying a separate powder measure for it, and while I haven't done the math on the payoff time on that, I can't imagine it's too many thousands of rounds. Trimming and swaging does seem pretty tedious, though; the process would be slower and more labor-intensive than pistol loading for sure.

barnaby
10-04-2016, 09:39 PM
As someone who recently started reloading, I can't imagine starting on a progressive press.



Started on a 550, still using it after 70,000 rounds or so in the last 7 years..

It is possible to do one thing at a time on a progressive to learn the process.

okie john
10-04-2016, 11:24 PM
Thank you to everyone who sent feedback today- needless to say- I checked my phone a few hundred times at work.

I agree that reloading in the long run makes the most sense. I have looked into the Dillon 550 and it seems to be highly recommended.

I will search other threads for input- but if someone can give the items I need on this thread it will save some work.

As an FYI- I only shoot 9mm and 5.56/.223- which means that is all I will reload. I want to learn for 6 months or so by doing the 9mm.

Any advice on what I need? Since I will only do the 2 calibers is the 550 best idea for me.

I had thought about starting on a single stage, but don't want to go out spend that money- then six months later buy another press. However- that may be my best route.

Thank all of you for your guidance.

There's nothing wrong with learning on a single-stage press. It's slower than a progressive, but the setup is a lot simpler so it's easier to use for load development while you keep the Dillon for serious bulk production.

As for accessories, the first thing I'd buy is a bullet puller so you can recover from your mistakes. Then I'd buy a bunch of loading manuals. They all have several chapters on reloading, and I'd read all of them end to end several times, since hand loading really is the kind of thing where one mistake can hurt or kill yourself or others. You'll also need a scale, a set of calipers, a good micrometer, a couple of plastic funnels, and a bunch of other stuff that I'm sure other people will point out. All of that stuff costs money, and it does not pay to go cheap on any of it. Buy once, cry once and all that.

And once you get the gear, you'll need components. Despite saving money by hand loading, components are still expensive. They can also be as scarce as ammo when the lean times come, and that's why I asked about your budget. It might make a lot of sense to stock up on components now (especially primers and powder) while you can still get them, and pick up loading gear, starting with a single-stage press here and there when components get hard to find.

And that's another problem: when components get scarce, they stay scarce for a long time, and having 1-2 pounds of powder only gets you so far. I'd go for a couple of kegs, even if it means holding off on buying a Dillon for a while.


Okie John

Luke
10-05-2016, 04:36 AM
Why would you need a micrometer and funnels? I've used a bullet puller twice, both times just for kicks. I'm not saying you shouldn't have these, but for loading pistol calibers you don't need much.



As far as a progressive press goes. In my mind if you can't get a 650 and figure it out with the Dillon manual and safely make ammo, you probably shouldn't reload at all. I could see the value of having a single stage to do oddball tasks, but if I let y'all talk me into a single stage over a progressive I would be extremely upset. For PISTOL calibers a 650 for your first press is the way to go, and if you have the money get a 1050. I don't think you will find anyone who says "I bought a 650/1050 as my first press but man, I wish I'd have bought a single stage".


YMMV

mmc45414
10-05-2016, 06:16 AM
If you want to you could drop one case in without a case feed and run them one at at a time until you are comfortable with the process.

Just remembered this is bad advice. I am new to the 650 and forgot the primer feed works in a manner that this would be impractical. It is awesome and you will eventually want it, but you can run the 650 without a case feed, I still do not have one on my SL900. You could build some kind of tray that keeps you cases up by the drop. In the Dillon video she drops them in at the top, in reality you would not put the tall clear tube in place and just drop them in the little green plastic piece. This way the initial cost delta is only $127, the internet will tell ya this is a shitty idea, because the 650 with the case feed is so cool, but $220 case feed makes the 650 look a lot more expensive than the 550 when it really isn't. If you buy a 550 and later decide you want a 650 one of your buddies will buy the 550. If you just buy the 650 you will never wish you had.

And a 550 does not have a powder check hole, but if you avoid only a few powders a double will overflow a 9mm. But if I were in your situation I would spend the $127.

Like Luke said, it is not that complicated. Like Frack said, 5.56 is significantly more complicated than pistol, I agree that just load pistol till you know enough to decide if you want to screw with it later.

Like Olsten said, the Hornady is another option, it seems though they make it hard to buy with the case feed but without the bullet feed.

If you are not shooting a factory Glock barrel cast bullets are another option that are even cheaper. And some of the cost savings are dependent on if you shoot someplace it is practical to recover you brass.

And everybody is right about components, but at a time when you are buying all of your other gear it all adds up. I also kinda avoid keeping things synchronized, because I really DON'T like running out of everything at the same time. When I need primers I buy primers, when I need powder I buy powder, and when I buy bullets I load em up! :)

Luke
10-05-2016, 06:40 AM
On the topic of powder checkers, I think you should look into every case as you load. It's not hard to see into it as you load.

jeep45238
10-05-2016, 07:13 AM
Reloading, especially if you might be interested in casting too. My cost per box of 9mm is less than $4.

CCT125US
10-05-2016, 09:06 AM
As far as the complexity, I think some folks tend to be over confident in the ability of others. There is a difference between the guy who can find the gas pedal vs the guy who can do brakes, and transmissions. Just because I think it's easy, doesn't mean Johnny New Press won't be starring at it like a cow looking at a new gate. With that said, I am of the opinion that I can figure most things out.

Luke
10-05-2016, 09:25 AM
Maybe I'm too optimistic in humanity as a whole. In my mind if you can't safely load ammo you don't need to touch a gun, at all.

CCT125US
10-05-2016, 09:32 AM
Maybe I'm too optimistic in humanity as a whole. In my mind if you can't safely load ammo you don't need to touch a gun, at all.

You must live in a world of Unicorns and glitter......

(Looks at avatar for confirmation) :) :)

Clusterfrack
10-05-2016, 09:48 AM
On the topic of powder checkers, I think you should look into every case as you load. It's not hard to see into it as you load.

I agree that this is a good approach for many people, but I don't do that, and have never had a double or zero charge. The RCBS lockout die works really well, and I can load well over 1k per hour on my 1050.

okie john
10-05-2016, 09:57 AM
Why would you need a micrometer and funnels? I've used a bullet puller twice, both times just for kicks. I'm not saying you shouldn't have these, but for loading pistol calibers you don't need much.

The micrometer is for checking your work, checking bullet and case diameters, and diagnosing problems. If you're just making blasting ammo, then you may be able to do without one, but they're vital once you start loading for accuracy. The funnels are for handling powder safely and without making a mess. If you only use one kind of powder, then you won't need them. The bullet puller is handy when you start to experiment with seating depth.


As far as a progressive press goes. In my mind if you can't get a 650 and figure it out with the Dillon manual and safely make ammo, you probably shouldn't reload at all. I could see the value of having a single stage to do oddball tasks, but if I let y'all talk me into a single stage over a progressive I would be extremely upset. For PISTOL calibers a 650 for your first press is the way to go, and if you have the money get a 1050. I don't think you will find anyone who says "I bought a 650/1050 as my first press but man, I wish I'd have bought a single stage".

You might be able to unpack a 650 and start rocking, but if you need to diagnose any kind of problem, then a progressive can be a nightmare. I spent a summer working loading ammo on a RL-1000 (pre 1050), and the fact that I had started on a single-stage press was incredibly helpful in keeping the machine running and in turning out good ammo. I stand by my opinion that it's better in the long run to learn how to hand load on a single-stage machine.


Okie John

okie john
10-05-2016, 09:58 AM
Maybe I'm too optimistic in humanity as a whole. In my mind if you can't safely load ammo you don't need to touch a gun, at all.

Disagree.

Handling a gun well, even under stress, requires a completely different set of skills and aptitudes than loading ammo.


Okie John

Corey
10-05-2016, 09:58 AM
I have been using a 550 since the mid 80's. I have been nagging the wife for a 1050 for 9mm and keep the 550 for everything else. And I don't even enjoy reloading, it is pure drudgery to me. However, I have a fixed budget for ammo, and reloading let's me shoot a lot more than I could otherwise afford. I know the 1050 would be a big sunk cost, but having used a 1050 I don't care I just want.

olstyn
10-05-2016, 10:00 AM
Why would you need a micrometer and funnels? I've used a bullet puller twice, both times just for kicks. I'm not saying you shouldn't have these, but for loading pistol calibers you don't need much.

How much you use a bullet puller can depend a lot on your gun(s) and the types of bullets you're using. I barely ever had to pull bullets when I was using Berry's round nose, but the Montana Gold bullets I've been using for the last several thousand rounds happen to have a profile that makes fail case gauging more frequently, leading to a higher incidence of using the bullet puller. The chambers of the two guns I load for are on the tight/short side, and the MG bullets' profile causes some problems for me as a result. I expect that once I use up the last of the MG bullets I have on hand, I'll be switching to a coated option; hopefully I'll be able to find one with a bullet profile that works out better for my guns.

I guess that was a long-winded way of saying that you've been luckier than me. :)


On the topic of powder checkers, I think you should look into every case as you load. It's not hard to see into it as you load.

I don't disagree, but redundant safety measures are not a bad thing, and can certainly provide a bit more peace of mind for new reloaders. That's why I have a powder cop die; I felt like it would be a good idea starting off, and I found it beneficial, so I never stopped using it.


There is a difference between the guy who can find the gas pedal vs the guy who can do brakes, and transmissions. Just because I think it's easy, doesn't mean Johnny New Press won't be starring at it like a cow looking at a new gate.

Certainly in order to reload successfully, you need to be able to have a detail-oriented mindset and the ability to consistently pay attention to what you're doing for long periods of time. That said, once you learn the process, there's nothing truly complicated about it. It's just important to be sure you understand what's going on at each step and take it slow at first; the consequences of screwing up can be dramatic.

Luke
10-05-2016, 10:59 AM
Okie John,

How I took the OP's post was in regards to starting up reloading ammo for the purpose of plinking with the main emphasis on hand gun reloading.

I don't see what you could do with a micrometer that you could not do with a set of decent calipers. I was also using gun handling/ownership in the same basic context as I was reloading. You can't make simple plinking ammo, I don't want you near me with a gun. My first press was a 650 that did have issues. I got them worked out and learned a lot about the machine it self. In regards to loading for accuracy, once again I took his post as wanting plinking ammo. If dude would have come here saying he wanted to start shooting F class obviously we'd be having a different conversation.

I don't doubt you can buy a gazilian do-dads that serve all kinds of fancy purposes, but you don't have too. You also don't need to start on a single stage taking 10 minutes to make one round, stopping st every step to double tripple check everything is perfect. A lot of people get wrapped up in this thinking that reloading is this dark art that only the select few are able to comprehend and the rest need to start at the Stone Age and spend years building a solid base before they move onto anything beyond Fischer price my first reloaded.


My advice, which apparently is on the outside realm of acceptable;


Buy the biggest press you can afford. (Dillon)
Read the owners manual it comes with. Then set the press up.
Cruise the Brian Enos reloading section. Read the FAQ
Look at published loads in books and online, make sure nothing looks weird between the two.
Set press up for that load.
Don't be scared to double and tripple check things, if it doesn't look right stop. Don't be that guy who doesn't remember if he ran out of powder before or after that last load and then still tries to shoot them. When it doubt throw them away. We're talking like 10 cents a round..

Luke
10-05-2016, 11:02 AM
And for the record, I have $770 into my whole reloading set up, press (650), case feeder, and all the relatable tools used for reloading. I safely produce large quantities of ammo that outshoots me. You don't have to go broke and be a rocket scientist. I've had issues along the way, both me and machine, but they get resolved and everyone lives.

GuanoLoco
10-05-2016, 11:10 AM
And for the record, I have $770 into my whole reloading set up, press (650), case feeder, and all the relatable tools used for reloading. I safely produce large quantities of ammo that outshoots me. You don't have to go broke and be a rocket scientist. I've had issues along the way, both me and machine, but they get resolved and everyone lives.

How many months, rounds & calibers of reloading experience do you have again? ;)

Luke
10-05-2016, 11:12 AM
15k rounds. Idk time. It's freaking 9mm?? How is this complicated.

okie john
10-05-2016, 11:26 AM
How many months, rounds & calibers of reloading experience do you have again? ;)

Somewhere north of 40 years, 11 pistol cartridges, 13 rifle cartridges, 12-gauge shotgun and 20-gauge shotgun. Disciplines include match shooting with rifle and handgun, hunting with rifle and handgun, working for a commercial loader, and fiddling with a couple of bottleneck wildcats.

No idea how many rounds.


Okie John

Rack
10-05-2016, 11:59 AM
Where are some good places to order powder, primers, etc.?

Thanks.

GuanoLoco
10-05-2016, 12:02 PM
Somewhere north of 40 years, 11 pistol cartridges, 13 rifle cartridges, 12-gauge shotgun and 20-gauge shotgun. Disciplines include match shooting with rifle and handgun, hunting with rifle and handgun, working for a commercial loader, and fiddling with a couple of bottleneck wildcats.

No idea how many rounds.


Okie John

You are clearly overqualified. Next opinion please. ;)

FPS
10-05-2016, 12:17 PM
One thing to note on the cost of a Dillon press is the only thing you are really losing if you decide to sell it is the cost of depreciation and shipping and maybe tax. Those things maybe depreciate 15% since they are so hot on the used market. So if you are trying to convince your spouse, take that into account. :)

rsa-otc
10-05-2016, 12:17 PM
If I didn't reload I wouldn't be able to shoot anywhere near the amount I do now.

If you buy right and in bulk you can push down the cost per box of 50 - 9mm to less than $9.00 ber box. Not big savings but one non the less. They rest of the pistol calibers, 38 spl, 40; 45 you will realize bigger savings. Use that savings either to shoot more or fund your next gun.

If you buy a loader buy Dillon, hands down the best customer service I have recieved from anyone EVER. Email that a part broke and within the next couple of business days a replacement is on it's way. I didn't even have to say why it broke or send pictures.

Rifle rounds are another story. I don't shoot anywhere near the volume that would justify buying in a big enough bulk to see any savings.

CCT125US
10-05-2016, 12:22 PM
Where are some good places to order powder, primers, etc.?

Thanks.

Powdervalleyinc.com is decent

mmc45414
10-05-2016, 12:30 PM
And for the record, I have $770 into my whole reloading set up, press (650), case feeder, and all the relatable tools used for reloading.
But the OP would need to understand that is either used or older prices. My 650 is only a few months old and was right at $800 with case feed and shipping, no dies.


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barnaby
10-05-2016, 01:16 PM
Since you'd be starting from scratch..

http://brianenos.com/dillon-550-press-conversion-ez-buy-packages/

Take a look there.

Lot's of good reloading stuff on brianenos.com

holmes168
10-05-2016, 01:17 PM
Okie John,

How I took the OP's post was in regards to starting up reloading ammo for the purpose of plinking with the main emphasis on hand gun reloading.

I don't see what you could do with a micrometer that you could not do with a set of decent calipers. I was also using gun handling/ownership in the same basic context as I was reloading. You can't make simple plinking ammo, I don't want you near me with a gun. My first press was a 650 that did have issues. I got them worked out and learned a lot about the machine it self. In regards to loading for accuracy, once again I took his post as wanting plinking ammo. If dude would have come here saying he wanted to start shooting F class obviously we'd be having a different conversation.

I don't doubt you can buy a gazilian do-dads that serve all kinds of fancy purposes, but you don't have too. You also don't need to start on a single stage taking 10 minutes to make one round, stopping st every step to double tripple check everything is perfect. A lot of people get wrapped up in this thinking that reloading is this dark art that only the select few are able to comprehend and the rest need to start at the Stone Age and spend years building a solid base before they move onto anything beyond Fischer price my first reloaded.


My advice, which apparently is on the outside realm of acceptable;


Buy the biggest press you can afford. (Dillon)
Read the owners manual it comes with. Then set the press up.
Cruise the Brian Enos reloading section. Read the FAQ
Look at published loads in books and online, make sure nothing looks weird between the two.
Set press up for that load.
Don't be scared to double and tripple check things, if it doesn't look right stop. Don't be that guy who doesn't remember if he ran out of powder before or after that last load and then still tries to shoot them. When it doubt throw them away. We're talking like 10 cents a round..


I looked at Brian Enos and his reommendation seemed to be 550 for a first time reloader. However- most on his forum seem to agree to go with the 650. I have a bit of time to continue researching at least and thank you for the responses.

holmes168
10-05-2016, 01:20 PM
The micrometer is for checking your work, checking bullet and case diameters, and diagnosing problems. If you're just making blasting ammo, then you may be able to do without one, but they're vital once you start loading for accuracy. The funnels are for handling powder safely and without making a mess. If you only use one kind of powder, then you won't need them. The bullet puller is handy when you start to experiment with seating depth.



You might be able to unpack a 650 and start rocking, but if you need to diagnose any kind of problem, then a progressive can be a nightmare. I spent a summer working loading ammo on a RL-1000 (pre 1050), and the fact that I had started on a single-stage press was incredibly helpful in keeping the machine running and in turning out good ammo. I stand by my opinion that it's better in the long run to learn how to hand load on a single-stage machine.


Okie John

In response to an earlier question from you- the budget range is around $1,200. This is everything out the door- but I could go a bit higher if I needed to. I was thinking - 550 or 650 as I want to only buy once. However- I cannot disagree with your comment about learning on a single stage press. If you were to recommend one or two for me to compare- I would be grateful. The Dillon website makes it pretty easy.

LittleLebowski
10-05-2016, 01:22 PM
Since you'd be starting from scratch..

http://brianenos.com/dillon-550-press-conversion-ez-buy-packages/

Take a look there.

Lot's of good reloading stuff on brianenos.com

Brian Enos is no longer selling Dillon reloaders.

LittleLebowski
10-05-2016, 01:45 PM
Brian Enos is no longer selling Dillon reloaders.

http://brianenos.com/dillon/

LittleLebowski
10-05-2016, 02:06 PM
I'm just catching up on this thread so here's some drive by shooting :D


I learned how to reload on a Dillon 550 and I find that learning on the 550 is entirely doable. It is easier to double charge a round on it because of the manual advance (no auto indexing), i.e. you run the handle twice without advancing the shellplate a turn. This can be remedied with your eyes, that is using a "fluffy" powder (only applies to pistol rounds, I believe) that will overflow if double charged (unlike my favorite Titegroup). Also, LOTS of lighting. LOTS. Get the Inline Fab Skylight (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PZR3INE/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ratio07-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B00PZR3INE&linkId=a308c420ee9e5142ff7064e6f56fd836).
Buy powder and primers NOW if you share my worries over the election. The reloader and ancillary equipment will always be available.
Before a very generous person gifted me my beloved Dillon 550, I (with the help of an equally generous SME) had arrived at the buying decision of a Lee Classic Turret. From my research, the package Kempf sells (https://kempfgunshop.com/Kempf_Kit_w/_Lee_Classic_Turret_Press_-90064Kit-6575.html) looks great for a new reloader on a budget

JCS
10-05-2016, 02:19 PM
I guess I'm too paranoid about a squib or double charge. I can do about 100 rounds per hour with a Lyman turret press. I'm going way to slow. How can I speed it up? I currently do the following in batches: clean, resize/deprime, prime with lee handprimer, expand, put powder in cases, seat bullet and then crimp.

I'm not making good use of the turret press.

LittleLebowski
10-05-2016, 02:21 PM
I guess I'm too paranoid about a squib or double charge. I can do about 100 rounds per hour with a Lyman turret press. I'm going way to slow. How can I speed it up? I currently do the following in batches: clean, resize/deprime, prime with lee handprimer, expand, put powder in cases, seat bullet and then crimp.

I'm not making good use of the turret press.

What are you doing on the turret press? You sound like you're using a single stage the way you describe it.

JCS
10-05-2016, 02:43 PM
What are you doing on the turret press? You sound like you're using a single stage the way you describe it.

I pretty much am and I'm not using it efficiently. I started off that way learning how to reload and I have just kept doing it. Last time I loaded I realized how inefficient I was.

Duelist
10-05-2016, 02:49 PM
I guess I'm too paranoid about a squib or double charge. I can do about 100 rounds per hour with a Lyman turret press. I'm going way to slow. How can I speed it up? I currently do the following in batches: clean, resize/deprime, prime with lee handprimer, expand, put powder in cases, seat bullet and then crimp.

I'm not making good use of the turret press.

A turret isn't as fast as a progressive. You can use it a couple of ways: batch work, like what you are doing, or you can go for efficiency. That means, handle the case fewer times. If you have an expansion die that you can put the powder charge through, you only have to directly handle the case when you put it in the shell holder and when you take it out as a complete round.

I'm not completely convinced that is always faster, though.

<- reloads on a Redding T7.

richiecotite
10-05-2016, 04:08 PM
Where are some good places to order powder, primers, etc.?

Thanks.

Like mentioned above, powder valley inc.

Also, cabelas will sometimes have reduced shipping on certain items like primers, or powder if you order a certain amount.

Wideners for powder and primers as well.

Bullets - a lot of places. I like and casting and their coated bullets, but if you're ok with lead bullets summers enterprises has the best prices on bullets I've seen. I shot one box of their 180 ft in 40 and they were fine.

Jacketed bullets- roze dist, American reloading, Montana gold, etc. for bullets, there are tons of good Bullet sellers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LittleLebowski
10-05-2016, 09:11 PM
How many months, rounds & calibers of reloading experience do you have again? ;)

About three months, 10k rds, and three but it took hours of SLG's and JV's time to get this idiot that far :D

CCT125US
10-05-2016, 09:35 PM
How many months, rounds & calibers of reloading experience do you have again? ;)

34 years, .380, 9mm, .40, .45, .38, .357, .44, .223, 5.56, .243, 30-06, 22-250, .22 Remington Jet, 12ga, .410. Perhaps 200k rounds, many of those hand cast. Good times were had by all. And I'm still learning.

GuanoLoco
10-06-2016, 09:34 AM
The only regrets I have ever had with my reloading presses was not going bigger earlier.

okie john
10-06-2016, 10:14 AM
In response to an earlier question from you- the budget range is around $1,200. This is everything out the door- but I could go a bit higher if I needed to. I was thinking - 550 or 650 as I want to only buy once. However- I cannot disagree with your comment about learning on a single stage press. If you were to recommend one or two for me to compare- I would be grateful. The Dillon website makes it pretty easy.

If you're going to get a Dillon anyway, get the 650, since you'll want to upgrade to it eventually. Bear in mind that most of the production times people have quoted include actual handle-pulling time but not the time it takes to fill primer tubes, etc. Once you add in those times, production figures can drop sharply.

As for the single-stage press, most gun shops worthy of the name will have a used RCBS Rock Chucker gathering dust for under $50. You'll need a shell holder and maybe a priming arm. I'd also get a powder measure, since you won't have one built in like the Dillon has. A measure with a micrometer adjustment is nice, but the RCBS Little Dandy will do just fine if you get a couple of extra rotors. You should be around $100 for all of this stuff if you can find some of it used.

Also, bear in mind that your first press is a gateway tool. Once you realize the versatility that you can get out of a firearm by handloading, you'll be looking at all kinds of new gear because you can reload for it.


Okie John

Malamute
10-06-2016, 10:33 AM
I'll second the used single stage press idea. My first real press was used (RCBS Rockchucker Jr?), and I'm still using it 35 or so years later. I bought a spare to leave at relatives house that I visit, and I tend to buy spare RCBS die sets in calibers I can use, or that I'll need the extra dies when used on the Dillon. I don't have much in any of them. Ive also bought several Lyman powder measures for $35-$40 each, and wouldnt pass up a spare RCBS measure if priced right. Also ended up with 2 scales, so I can leave one with the spare setup at the relatives. I'm also a Lyman 310 addict and bullet mold addict. Even with a Dillon, I use the single stage press a fair amount. Its not always about highest volume, though I don't tend to run the 550 at top speed, preferring to be extra sure of every charge and step along the way. 300/hr is about my par with the 550 when its all set up.

okie john
10-06-2016, 10:43 AM
I'll second the used single stage press idea. My first real press was used (RCBS Rockchucker Jr?), and I'm still using it 35 or so years later. I bought a spare to leave at relatives house that I visit, and I tend to buy spare RCBS die sets in calibers I can use, or that I'll need the extra dies when used on the Dillon. I don't have much in any of them. Ive also bought several Lyman powder measures for $35-$40 each, and wouldnt pass up a spare RCBS measure if priced right. Also ended up with 2 scales, so I can leave one with the spare setup at the relatives. I'm also a Lyman 310 addict and bullet mold addict. Even with a Dillon, I use the single stage press a fair amount. Its not always about highest volume, though I don't tend to run the 550 at top speed, preferring to be extra sure of every charge and step along the way. 300/hr is about my par with the 550 when its all set up.

I got pretty deeply into casting back when I was in my 5-shot 45 Colt phase. I had some really nice LBT moulds and killed some deer with bullets from them, but casting took up as much time as reloading and I had to prioritize, so it got dropped. Some of the most accurate ammo I've ever loaded used those bullets...


Okie John

Malamute
10-06-2016, 11:08 AM
I started casting before the bullets I liked and used were easily available commercially, and to save money. I don't cast much any more, though have accumulated a number of molds I want to try. As much as anything, I like the feeling of having a pile of molds and a few 5 gallon buckets of wheel weights around for backup.

My casting was mostly on a coleman campstove with Lyman lead pot. I'm going to get a good bottom pour furnace to speed things up when I get back to casting again.

okie john
10-06-2016, 11:09 AM
I started casting before the bullets I liked and used were easily available commercially, and to save money. I don't cast much any more, though have accumulated a number of molds I want to try. As much as anything, I like the feeling of having a pile of molds and a few 5 gallon buckets of wheel weights around for backup.

My casting was mostly on a coleman campstove with Lyman lead pot. I'm going to get a good bottom pour furnace to speed things up when I get back to casting again.

Don't get me started....


Okie John

Clusterfrack
10-06-2016, 11:24 AM
If you're going to get a Dillon anyway, get the 650, since you'll want to upgrade to it eventually. Bear in mind that most of the production times people have quoted include actual handle-pulling time but not the time it takes to fill primer tubes, etc. Once you add in those times, production figures can drop sharply.


I just loaded 1000 9mm in 45 min on the press plus 7 min to fill 1000 primers in 9 tubes and the press using a VibraPrime.

Brass processing will add some time, but I do it in big bulk sessions so I think my total is under 1hr for 1000 rounds on my 1050 with no bullet feeder.

GuanoLoco
10-06-2016, 11:38 AM
My record for the 1050 / Mr. Bullet Feeder BEFORE I installed the Mark VII was 1000 rounds in 30 minutes. Trust me - you have to be dialed in 100% to pull that trick off.

GuanoLoco
10-06-2016, 12:04 PM
From the night before last - I had a bud come over with 5 gallons of 9mm brass. We sorted and I fired up the 3.5 cu ft. cement mixer that I use as a brass cleaner. 2 x 10 minute pre-wash/rinse cycles with water and no media/chems. I think the 2 pre-wash cycles are the trick to getting rid of most of the grime early and making the next cycle super-effective. The 40 mins with water, 1 tbs Wash-n-Wax and 1 tbs citric acid. Rinsed, drained, sloppy towel-off, tossed in 8-level dehydrator and went to bed.

Result: 4 gallons, maybe 60 lbs of brass, maybe 8000 cases cleaned. Notice how nice the case interiors are even without media.

All that glitters may not be gold....but that's OK for a reloader! If this doesn't get you fired up, I'll have to find some more new pics...

1101611015

cheby
10-06-2016, 12:12 PM
My record for the 1050 / Mr. Bullet Feeder BEFORE I installed the Mark VII was 1000 rounds in 30 minutes. Trust me - you have to be dialed in 100% to pull that trick off.


GM level of reloading!

okie john
10-06-2016, 04:21 PM
My record for the 1050 / Mr. Bullet Feeder BEFORE I installed the Mark VII was 1000 rounds in 30 minutes. Trust me - you have to be dialed in 100% to pull that trick off.

Dialed in is a massive understatement.

The hand loader's focus must always be on safety. Too many people get fixated on speed and start doing unsafe stuff without realizing it.


Okie John

NETim
10-06-2016, 04:30 PM
I shoot so I can reload. :) I thoroughly enjoy building ammo that runs well.

GuanoLoco
10-06-2016, 11:05 PM
Dialed in is a massive understatement.

The hand loader's focus must always be on safety. Too many people get fixated on speed and start doing unsafe stuff without realizing it.


Okie John

I completely agree with you.

Actually a RATE of 1000/30 minutes, or faster than 1 round every 2 seconds on Super 1050 equipped with a Mr. Bullet Feeder is quite do-able - for brief periods of time. SUSTAINING that rate for a full 30 minutes is a feat that requires one to basically perfect the brass cleaning and especially QC processes, to have every aspect of the press tuned just right, have 9 primer tubes loaded, and to be able to pull the lever completely and rhythmically each and every time - while refilling primers, bullets, powder and brass as required.

Any tiny glitch that results in a corrective action that takes more than a few seconds to resolve will ruin The attempt to load 1000 in 30 minutes.

The point of the exercise, documented in a thread on Doodie, was more to work out the kinks in my processes and equipment and actually had little to do with proving how fast I could pull the lever.

Duelist
10-07-2016, 12:51 PM
Wow. I think I may be getting a progressive. That kind of speed would definitely make it more worth the time to be reloading. Whenever I go out to make ammo, I weigh the time it usually takes against the other stuff I have to give up to do it, and the cost of ball ammo. Sometimes, I load. Sometimes, I go to the store.

But if I could multiply my output by several times without significantly increasing my time in the reloading area, I'd probably stop buying 9mm almost entirely.

deputyG23
10-07-2016, 01:27 PM
From the night before last - I had a bud come over with 5 gallons of 9mm brass. We sorted and I fired up the 3.5 cu ft. cement mixer that I use as a brass cleaner. 2 x 10 minute pre-wash/rinse cycles with water and no media/chems. I think the 2 pre-wash cycles are the trick to getting rid of most of the grime early and making the next cycle super-effective. The 40 mins with water, 1 tbs Wash-n-Wax and 1 tbs citric acid. Rinsed, drained, sloppy towel-off, tossed in 8-level dehydrator and went to bed.

Result: 4 gallons, maybe 60 lbs of brass, maybe 8000 cases cleaned. Notice how nice the case interiors are even without media.

All that glitters may not be gold....but that's OK for a reloader! If this doesn't get you fired up, I'll have to find some more new pics...

1101611015

Did you sort by headstamp?

Clusterfrack
10-07-2016, 01:57 PM
Sort? I don't, and have had no problems.

JCS
10-07-2016, 02:10 PM
I heard a really good podcast on triangle tactical about sorting brass by headstamp. He did some testing and while there was a difference it was small and he determined it wasn't worth the time for small increases in accuracy.

Clusterfrack
10-07-2016, 02:17 PM
I suppose if you were really worried about making Power Factor at a match, sorting could reduce differences in velocity. I prefer to shoot a hot enough load that I'm safely above min PF no matter what.

okie john
10-07-2016, 02:29 PM
I heard a really good podcast on triangle tactical about sorting brass by headstamp. He did some testing and while there was a difference it was small and he determined it wasn't worth the time for small increases in accuracy.

I sort for full-power loads but not for lighter practice loads.


Okie John

GuanoLoco
10-07-2016, 04:11 PM
Did you sort by headstamp?

My process is a little obnoxious, but it is what works best for my specific goals, (excessive) equipment and match ammo requirements. I hate stoppages when loading and go to trouble to avoid this. My goal is major match, competition quality ammo from crappy but free mixed range brass, and I want to get it done as quickly as possible. Vastly simpler, cheaper (and slower) processes are viable.

I sort by caliber and run a magnet across it. This particular batch of 9mm was chock full of coated steel cases that were visually indistinguishable from brass cases.

Then I clean / dry as seen before.

Next step is to pour into a 100 round 40 MTM case and visually remove all 380, 38 super & super comp, dinged case mouths, obstructed cases, Berdan primed cases, etc. Basically things that cause the Mark 7 automated 1050 reloading process to have problems. Once I have all 9mm brass, I'll pour the cases between my hands listening for the tinny ring of split cases.

Then I run them through an automated pre-processing step - size/decap/swage. I'm current using a Lee U-Die to minimize case gauge failures. I just got operational at 2400 RPH (Rounds Per Hour).

Then loading. I'm routinely checking for OAL, crimp, primers, etc. 20 throw powder averages before and usually after a session for confirmation of no charge drift - if I remember. A Dillon RF 100 small primer filler will be here soon. Yea!

Then visual QC of loaded cases looking for splits, curled case mouths, anything not right. Then case gauging 100 at a time using a Hundo case gauge. I verify primers are seated properly by eye and by feel. Cases that fall freely from the inverted case gauge I consider to be match quality. Failures go into the practice ammo bin.

The resulting ammo is extremely reliable and consistent - even with mixed range brass from matches (e.g. 9 major brass) and open ranges.

I like to blow in to my shop, load 1000 rounds of competition quality ammo soup-to-nutz @ 1800 RPH and blow out to do something else more productive like dry fire.

holmes168
10-10-2016, 08:11 PM
Thanks again to all for the advice. My Dillon 650 arrives on Thursday!!!:D