Electronic ear protection - current state of groupthink?

[Nephrology]

So yesterday I went on a quick range trip with my med school classmate and got a few exposures to high dB ear punishment. First offense was when we were driving up to the firing line at the rifle range and just as I was getting out of the car a guy maybe 10 yards from our vehicle let off a round from some wildcat rifle (it began with .3 and ended with 'weatherby...') that hurt like a son of a bitch. Later, as we were packing up for the day, I removed my earpro thinking my buddy was done shooting - nope. 2 rounds of .45ACP maybe 15 feet from me. Not fun.

Currently have Howard Leight Impact Sports, now I am convinced I want something more. Did some digging and search-function-using on this website and a few others. Consensus seems to be MSA Sordins or Peltor Comtacs, but I can't figure out which model/brand offers the best value per price. I'm not looking to 'cheap out,' per se, but I also don't want to spend extra money on something that will produce diminishing returns.

Looking at the MSA Sordin Pro Xs versus Pro IVs, and Peltor Comtacs (unsure of what models I should be considering... IIIs?) Any experience/thoughts/advice welcome.

Edit: especially interested in GJM's input (though of course all input is welcome) as I read in his older thread that he wasn't terribly impressed with the MSA Sordins and ended up being satisfied with a pair of Peltor Comtacs (unsure which model). Curious to hear if things have changed.

[SAWBONES]

I recommend doubling up.

One occluder type within the external ear canals (foam plugs, baffled rubber or fitted type), and muffs over the ears, with the highest NRR you can find (Howard Leight has traditionally had the best).

I haven't found any of the electronic muffs to provide sufficient noise protection on an indoor range.

Shooting outside is a different story. Many types of single noise protection can be sufficient outdoors.

[Nephrology]

I recommend doubling up.

One occluder type within the external ear canals (foam plugs, baffled rubber or fitted type), and muffs over the ears, with the highest NRR you can find (Howard Leight has traditionally had the best).

I haven't found any of the electronic muffs to provide sufficient noise protection on an indoor range.

Shooting outside is a different story. Many types of single noise protection can be sufficient outdoors.

I always, always, always double up - even outdoors. Have since 2011 or earlier. Still, I'd rather be conservative; you only get one pair of ears and mine are already not in the best shape for someone my age. My Howard Leights have been OK, but I don't think they offer the best seal, which makes their EE pro strategy of simply cutting out high dB audio input not terribly efficacious.

Plugs/HLs have worked for years but I'm starting to realize that I, too, am mortal, and would like to postpone hearing aids for as long as possible...

[GJM]

My wife and I have each used a pair of these Peltor muffs for the last five years with complete satisfaction. Mine even survived falling out of a friend's truck, and despite being on the road in pieces, kept working when I put it all back together. I add plugs underneath for certain high noise situations, like rifles under an awning. You want the gel cups, as they are much more comfortable than the stock seals.

http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/peltor-comtac-ach-communication-foliage-green.html

About my only observation, is lately when I shoot a 14 inch Benelli with Brenneke slugs, there is enough recoil that sometimes the battery shifts on one side, knocking out amplification until I reset the battery. That may be more an issue with my shotgun/slug combination though. Here are mine in all their glory.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4826_zpsgm8r8z2c.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4826_zpsgm8r8z2c.jpg.html)

[RJ]

I'm new to guns since 2013, but I have a technical background in acoustics, so I've always been interested in ear pro. Based on buying and using a number of different options, my current thinking is that you have to divide up the aspects of ear pro, weigh what is most important to you, and then make a choice.

Acoustic Impedance This is the oft-quoted "Noise Reduction Rating". The higher the better, obviously. This is probably the most important factor, inasmuch as it is why one wears ear pro in the first place.

You can get effective earpro for $5 at Harbor Freight, having the same NRR as more expensive options, everything else being equal. Whether that $5 works for you depends on other factors...

Comfort / Quality I put these two together, because they are related. Generally, if you purchase an item at a higher price point, you are going to get a more comfortable, better fitting set of ear pro. They are also more likely to last.

Examples of this are the gel-cups that are optional on MSA Sordins. Vs. ear foam. The gel in the ear cups seals better for me, and is easier to wear for longer periods, like all day in a class or at a match. That $5 set of ear cups you bought at HF may break in 10 minutes use, or not fit very well, which may make them a poor choice for anything other than mowing the grass.

Redundancy Adding a set of foam plugs or say SureFire EP2s to an over the ear model is a good idea, and cheap insurance for a few added dB of NRR.

I enthusiastically recommend foam inserts or plugs in addition to over the ear cups at all times.

Electronic Amplification I'd separate this aspect of earpro out because there are options with, or without. Depending on your needs, you may not actually need to pay for electronic earpro if a good set of muffs is all you need. If you are in classes a lot, you may want to opt for electronics.

The circuitry is not complex, they all operate off the same principle of fast attack switching circuits that deactivate the pass through headset audio based on voltage spikes that accompany gunshots. The rest of the time, the microphone (or microphones) pass either sterero or mono audio into the headset at a selectable volume.

One great thing about electronics, is if you are at the range with that guy in the next stall wearing the "tap out" shirt shooting his "punisher" Glock that just can't stop talking, you can turn your ear pro off and have a bit more peace and quiet. :cool:


So that's my thinking these days. I have a number of sets of earpro, and I use them at different times:

Reusable Foam Ear plugs/Inserts - I always use these. I generally insert them before getting out of the truck, and take them out only when I'm back in. I clean my inserts (Surefire EP2s) with alcohol, and only use foam plugs once.

Howard Leight Impact Sports - First set of electronic ear pro I bought. Very comfortable, but the vinyl-covered foam ear cups are hot and sweaty after a couple hours. Electronics works well. The NRR on these is low. I do not use these anymore, so they have become the "spare" ear pro set I put in my range bag. They are very compact when collapsed. I do clean the cups with alcohol periodically to keep bacteria at a minimum.

Howard Leight Impact Pros - Second set of electronics I bought. Much bigger "cans" and thus higher NRR. Still uncomfortable after a few hours. These are generally what I use indoors. Same cleaning procedure, periodic wipe down with alcohol.

MSA Sordins w/ Gel cups - My third set of ear pro, which I acquired in last year's group buy here on the forum. Decent NRR, but the gel cups are extremely comfortable. I use these outdoors / steel / USPSA. I can't say the electronics works any better or worse than either of the HL's I have. The overall quality and build materials (gel, leather band, ear pieces, cables, steel, etc.) is very high quality. Relative to their NRR, they are expensive, but if you can snag one on sale, they are a very reliable, well made option.

[Luke]

I have MSA sordin's with the gel cups. If you won't buy the gel cups don't bother spending the money at all.

I wear custom molded plugs ear plugs with my sordins on top. I don't even turn on the electronics. Super comfy, audio is clear and crisp. Where they make it worth the 325 is the gel cups. Plus operator bro.

Edit: before the custom molded I didn't double up, even indoors. I also have sensitive ears and wasn't bothered.

Edit#2: these are also super tough. I have thrown them down as hard as I could in a fit of rage. Bent them back and you'd never know if I didn't tell you. They appear to be water proof aswell. Lots of rain and tears have been on them.

[spinmove_]

I just got my first pair of electronic ear pro this year and I snagged a pair of Peltor Rangeguards. They're relatively inexpensive, but I find them to work rather well for what they are. On indoor ranges I'm still inclined to double up. Outside range for the class that I took last weekend? Worked like a charm and I could hear everything beautifully.

[Luke]

If you wanna try before you buy PM me your address and I'll ship these suckers to you.

[LSP972]

The Peltor "non-military" models are cheap and don't last; I've been through a half-dozen of them. All have failed in less than a year. And all of the other less-than-$100 offerings I have tried are not any better; they are all Chinese crap, IMO.

Finally, I coughed up $300 for a set of Sordins... and found Nirvana. There is simply no comparison.

.

[David S.]

Anybody tried these DC Comfort Covers (http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/fabric-ear-cushion-covers-for-david-clark-h10-series-pair.html?utm_source=google_shopping&m=simple&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Headsets&adpos=1o1&creative=74939016862&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CKyM4aWct88CFQ6EaQodkQoCvw)?


A soft, double-knit, 100% cotton, washable ear seal cover. Designed to absorb moisture in hot, humid weather.

I really liked these back when I was wearing over-ear aviation headsets. I imagine you could find or make something to fit any of these earpro.

ETA there are generic versions out there that are cheaper. I saw as low as $5-6.

[Nephrology]

So, if I can get a pair of MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-Xs with gel cup inserts for $189 shipped, very lightly used, should I jump on this?

[Luke]

If you want to save $136 then yes.

[Nephrology]

If you want to save $136 then yes.

I like saving $136.

[RJ]

So, if I can get a pair of MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-Xs with gel cup inserts for $189 shipped, very lightly used, should I jump on this?

Might check the warranty fine print.

I've heard there is a gray market version offered that is not covered by the Sordin USA folks.

But that might just be spin...from the Sordin USA folks. :)

[busdriver]

Something else to consider is your glasses. Make sure your ear pro can seal around the temple. Depending on glasses and the shape of your head, not all are conducive to a good seal.
Gel seals well, another great (but expensive) option are yhe soft seal kits/parts sold by oregon aero.

[Nephrology]

Might check the warranty fine print.

I've heard there is a gray market version offered that is not covered by the Sordin USA folks.

But that might just be spin...from the Sordin USA folks. :)

A gray market version?

The pair in question are olive drab with the woodland camo head band, come with the gel inserts.

[flyrodr]

I have a several year-old set of the Supreme Pro-X with the gel cups. Definitely agree with others on going with the gel cups, regardless of which model you get. I also double up with foam plugs, at least at indoor ranges, and at outdoor ranges if shooting positions are closely spaced.

Mine stay hung on the outside of my shoulder-carried range bag, and get pretty well banged up, as I go through doors, set the bag on the ground, toss it in the car, etc. No issues.

Electronic version is almost a necessity, as Rich said, if you're attending a class. Otherwise, I rarely turn them on.

Which reminds me. Customer service is great too. I decided on one range trip to plug in my phone and listen to some tunes. Couldn't get the audio to come through headset. After I got home and played with it some more, I gave up and called the company. Nice guy answered the phone, was very sympathetic, and said to send them in and they'd get right on fixing things. He then paused . . . I waited . . . and he said in a quiet voice, "You did turn them on, didn't you?" I said "Sure, but hold on a second." Checked them out . . . uh . . . pushed the button, and out came music. So I said "That's funny . . . everything is working now . . .". Then I 'fessed up.

[Robinson]

For me, electronic muffs are just for keeping near my defensive firearms at home or when attending a class. If the class is indoors I double up.

For general range practice I use passive muffs, with plugs underneath if shooting indoors or under an awning.

I have both a passive set and an electronic set of ProEars and they have an excellent NRR. They aren't exactly inexpensive, but not overly pricey either.

I plan to buy a set of Sordins soon, with the gel cups.

[JohnO]

When ever people talk hearing protection I recommend they look at this https://trevoronthetrigger.wordpress.com/tag/sordin/

[Sadmin]

All I wear is the Surefire plugs outside, is that no bueno / causing damage down the road?

[spinmove_]

The Peltor "non-military" models are cheap and don't last; I've been through a half-dozen of them. All have failed in less than a year. And all of the other less-than-$100 offerings I have tried are not any better; they are all Chinese crap, IMO.

Finally, I coughed up $300 for a set of Sordins... and found Nirvana. There is simply no comparison.

.

Fair enough. I literally just got my Peltors about a month or so ago. I'll run them until they die and then find something else/better. Hopefully I have a better experience with them than you have in the past.

[voodoo_man]

I always double up.

Regardless of in or out doors.

The Sordin's are fantastic, but they aren't the be all end all.

[Aray]

I'm new to guns since 2013, but I have a technical background in acoustics, so I've always been interested in ear pro. Based on buying and using a number of different options, my current thinking is that you have to divide up the aspects of ear pro, weigh what is most important to you, and then make a choice.

RJ, have you seen this article or the others like it? LINK (https://trevoronthetrigger.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/msa-sordin-supreme-performance-the-misleading-nrr18db-rating/)

My interpretation is that NRR is an important aspect, but not the end of the story.

What are your thoughts?

[RJ]

RJ, have you seen this article or the others like it? LINK (https://trevoronthetrigger.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/msa-sordin-supreme-performance-the-misleading-nrr18db-rating/)

My interpretation is that NRR is an important aspect, but not the end of the story.

What are your thoughts?

Well, uh, I am more familiar with um, oceanographic sounds and all, and I'm not a gunshot expert, and while the article seems reasonable on the surface, it just does not jive with my (limited) personal experience.

The Sordin gel cups seal well, but I'd never wear them on an indoor range. I'd put them on par with the Howard Leight Impact Sports. They do not cut as much noise as my HL Impact Pros.

Both Sordin and Sports have low profile plastic outer shells with a surrounding cup, and a fabric inner.

The pros have a much bigger, more padded ear 'can'. For me, the Pros seal out much more energy.

I still like the Sordins because they are so darn comfortable. But I would not buy them thinking, oh, wow, these protect like a 30 NRR headset, because they don't. I just wish they weren't $300.

Just my $0.02...

[Nephrology]

I ended up pulling the trigger on the Sordins w/ Gel cups for $189 shipped. I mostly prefer having some sort of electronic ear pro so I can be aware of what is around me at all times - I mostly practice solo in an action pistol bay at the large outdoor range I belong to, and like to know if there are others around me, mostly for my general safety as well as theirs.... and, of course, USPSA/IDPA/etc

[Clusterfrack]

My favorite is the mil surplus Nacre QuietPro, but these are hard to find and the ear inserts are expensive. The new Silynx may be even better. I haven't spent a lot of time with it yet, but a bunch of people on my USPSA team are very happy with it.
https://www.silynxcom.com/products/
https://www.silynxcom.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/clarus-pro_001.jpg

[HopetonBrown]

So, if I can get a pair of MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-Xs with gel cup inserts for $189 shipped, very lightly used, should I jump on this?
Here they are for that much new.

https://www.lamnia.com/en/p/781/hunting-and-shooting/msa-sordin-supreme-pro-x-earmuffs-headband-green

[RJ]

FWIW, and I'm not a shill for these guys, but just to re-quote some additional info from my contact from the Group Buy last year, www.srstactical.com:

"...Firstly a bit of information for you regarding the differences between the MSA Sordin Supreme models. The one you mentioned in your thread is a Pro (not Pro-X) ... This model is not totally waterproof and has only one year’s warranty. My advice to you and the group is to go for the Pro-X models which are fully waterproof and have 5 years warranty. Warranty covers the electronics and we handle all warranty issues from our base in Crystal River, Florida. All Supreme models with the exception of the Basic (not recommended) operate the same."

These guys offer their warranty service from the USA, 5 years, for the Pro-X models; one of the key reasons I went for the Pro-X, myself.

Just another purchase option on the Sordins.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I really like the Sordins. I appreciate the neckband build, as my favorite shooting hat has a button top.

I've also recently tried the Peltor model George showed earlier. I think I would be just as happy with those as far as performance.

Gel cups are a game changer for me.

If I bought new Sordins, it would be from SRS as Rich did. I don't think you are taking much of a gamble buying a gently used set at half cost, though.

[LSP972]

The Sordin's are fantastic, but they aren't the be all end all.

So... What is?

.

[voodoo_man]

So... What is?

.

There isn't a be all end all...

[LSP972]

Right answer.;)

.

[ReverendMeat]

All I wear is the Surefire plugs outside, is that no bueno / causing damage down the road?

Well, I'm not you, but I've been using the same pair of $10 reusable earplugs (and I shoot mostly indoors) for years and in the last decade I've had no measurable hearing loss.

[pr1042]

For training, I use the Pro Ears Ultra Sleek passive muffs and for competition or classes, I use Pro Ears Predator Gold electronic muffs. Both sets are NRR 26. I had a set of Sordins but didn't find too comfortable for longer days and they didn't seem to do a good job for me protection wise.

I double plug at all times and am almost done with a box of the Hearo's Extreme Protection plugs (NRR 33). Apparently they changed the design since I purchased so may be looking for a new set to try out soon.

[HopetonBrown]

I use a pair of Pro Ears Pro Mag Gold NRR 30 electronic indoors with some custom molded silicone plugs.

Outdoors I wear some Pro Ears Pro Tac SC Gold NRR 25 electronic, but from now on I'll probably be doubling up as well.

The Pro Mag Gold's crapped out 4 years and 11 months into the 5 year warranty. I still had the receipt and they rebuilt them free of charge.

[DMF13]

RJ, have you seen this article or the others like it? LINK (https://trevoronthetrigger.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/msa-sordin-supreme-performance-the-misleading-nrr18db-rating/)

My interpretation is that NRR is an important aspect, but not the end of the story.

What are your thoughts?What jumps out at me is that write up only shows the performance of the MSA Sordin product over various frequencies, NOT that they out perform other products over the various frequencies.

[Nephrology]

Bumping this thread - so, my ebay seller ended up never coming through and I am still without new ear protection. So, it's back to the Peltor Comtac IIIs vs the MSA Sordin SPXs.

Looks like from SRS tactical I can get a pair of the MSAs for $257. They are out of the box (returned), do not include batteries or the aux input plug, but otherwise are like new. Include gel cups and camo headband

Otherwise the Peltor Comtac IIIs are $290 NIB and include gel cups, though from the sounds of it I will probably want to buy a cushioned headband (another $30).

What sayeth you, pistol-forum?

[JohnO]

I've been using Sordins for well over 10 years and have been extremely pleased with their performance.

[RJ]

Bumping this thread - so, my ebay seller ended up never coming through and I am still without new ear protection. So, it's back to the Peltor Comtac IIIs vs the MSA Sordin SPXs.

Looks like from SRS tactical I can get a pair of the MSAs for $257. They are out of the box (returned), do not include batteries or the aux input plug, but otherwise are like new. Include gel cups and camo headband

Otherwise the Peltor Comtac IIIs are $290 NIB and include gel cups, though from the sounds of it I will probably want to buy a cushioned headband (another $30).

What sayeth you, pistol-forum?

All my dealings with Robert and Rusty last year for the MSA group buy were straight up. I never heard of any issues; I think they shipped maybe 30 units for our buy. They are just up the road for me, FWIW.

Price wise seems like the Sordins are the way to go. Are they the ones with five year warranty? The batteries are no big deal, just a couple standard ones.

[modrecoil]

I recently switched from the ubiquitous Leight Impact Sport to Peltor Tactical Sport with Camelback gel rings. Very comfortable and superior in every way to the Leghts. Relatively low NRR (20) but I double up anyway.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Bumping this thread - so, my ebay seller ended up never coming through and I am still without new ear protection. So, it's back to the Peltor Comtac IIIs vs the MSA Sordin SPXs.

Looks like from SRS tactical I can get a pair of the MSAs for $257. They are out of the box (returned), do not include batteries or the aux input plug, but otherwise are like new. Include gel cups and camo headband

Otherwise the Peltor Comtac IIIs are $290 NIB and include gel cups, though from the sounds of it I will probably want to buy a cushioned headband (another $30).

What sayeth you, pistol-forum?

Dude... If SRS will give you their standard warranty service on the MSAs, I'd take that deal.

I love mine. They get duty at the range, mowing the lawn, out in the workshop... So comfy. I will note I roll with the neckband version. I really don't like the way over the head bands compress at my glasses contact points. Might not be an issue for someone that doesn't wear specs off of the range, though.

[Dave J]

I have a set of Comtac II's, and also some Sordin's (not sure of exact model, might be Supremes), both with gel cups. Both are excellent -- Peltors seem to have slightly better audio, Sordins weigh a little less, and basically I'm happy with either. I definitely prefer the peltors if wearing a helmet, since the headband is thinner, but the Sordins have been getting more range use lately. Not sure if that helps, since mine aren't the exact models you're considering, but I think it's hard to go wrong with either, and I'd probably just pick whichever one has the best warranty.

[Clobbersaurus]

I use Howard Leight's Impact Sports over rubber inserts.

The rubber inserts I keep in my car and put them on before I leave the car and enter the range.

The Howard Leight's are inexpensive to the point that if they break, they are not a substantial investment to replace. I've used them for almost two years now, in rain and heat and they keep chugging along. They are an excellent value and I can't imagine spending more money on something that would be better.

[Nephrology]

Well, I pulled the trigger on the ComTacs... largely because they are made and can be serviced here in the US. I'll post my thoughts once I get them next week. Even sprung for a multicam headbband wrap. Going to be so freakin tactical next time I manage to escape my desk and hit the range ..

[HopetonBrown]

The Howard Leight's are inexpensive to the point that if they break, they are not a substantial investment to replace. I've used them for almost two years now, in rain and heat and they keep chugging along. They are an excellent value and I can't imagine spending more money on something that would be better.

Higher end ear pro don't clip during gunfire. My Pro Ears have leather covered memory foam ear seals. The Sordins and the like use medical grade silicone filled ear seals. The amount of time we spend wearing ear pro I think $300 for extra comfort and improved audio is worth it.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Higher end ear pro don't clip during gunfire. My Pro Ears have leather covered memory foam ear seals. The Sordins and the like use medical grade silicone filled ear seals. The amount of time we spend wearing ear pro I think $300 for extra comfort and improved audio is worth it.

I thought like Clob for some time in this regard. After trying the gel cups, I knew that for me I was thinking wrongly before. But, everyone has different shape and contours, so what is a big deal for me or you just may not be for another.

[RJ]

I thought like Clob for some time in this regard. After trying the gel cups, I knew that for me I was thinking wrongly before. But, everyone has different shape and contours, so what is a big deal for me or you just may not be for another.

Ditto.

The gel cups are...nice. I noticed how comfortable they were after I had them on for two or three hours or more at a stretch. The $300 price point of the Sordins is just hard to swallow, despite them being made well, with leather headband, fancy circuitry, and gel cups.

But the HLs are such good value for money. If they made a HL Impact Sport with gel cups, I think they'd sell like peanuts at an Elephant Convention. :cool:

[DMF13]

But the HLs are such good value for money. If they made a HL Impact Sport with gel cups, I think they'd sell like peanuts at an Elephant Convention. :cool:If you believe the Amazon reviews and Q&As, supposedly the Peltor RangeGuard (similar price to the HL Impact Sport) can be "upgraded" with the Peltor gel cups, but they aren't designed for that, and it requires a bit of "shade tree engineering." I actually like the RangeGuard better than the HL IS, but I'm not willing to spend another $45 (which is about the price of the RangeGuard itself) on a "maybe."

[oldtexan]

I've consistently used and highly recommend MSA Sordin Pro-X (with gel cups) with camo headband for the 2-3 years I've owned them, alone when on an outdoor range, or in combination with Surefire EP4 plugs on the few instances when I shoot indoors.

I have a pair of old Peltor 6S and two pair of Peltor 7S that I've owned for a decade or more. They still work( but with some static when I turn the power/volume knob(s)), but they tend to be used only as loaners for friends or to be stationed beside a home defense firearm. When I used them heavily, their guts proved to be too rust-prone in our Texas summers.

[Robinson]

Well, I pulled the trigger on the ComTacs... largely because they are made and can be serviced here in the US. I'll post my thoughts once I get them next week. Even sprung for a multicam headbband wrap. Going to be so freakin tactical next time I manage to escape my desk and hit the range ..

I'm pulling this thread back up to ask how you like the ComTacs? I am thinking of buying either these or some Sordins, leaning toward the ComTacs.

[smithjd]

Bumping this thread to inquire of those who have the MSA Sordins. From all the reading I did, it appears SRS Tactical is good to go, but about $100 more than Lamnia (Finland). Beyond service, warranty, and 'Merica!, are there other reasons to spend an extra $100 for apparently the exact same product? Has anyone purchased from Lamnia? The online reviews were positive.

https://www.lamnia.com/en/p/781/hunting-and-shooting/msa-sordin-supreme-pro-x-earmuffs

v.

http://srstactical.com/all-products/headsets-and-hearing-protection/msa-sordin-supreme-range/msa-sordin-supreme-pro-x-788.html

[RJ]

Bumping this thread to inquire of those who have the MSA Sordins. From all the reading I did, it appears SRS Tactical is good to go, but about $100 more than Lamnia (Finland). Beyond service, warranty, and 'Merica!, are there other reasons to spend an extra $100 for apparently the exact same product? Has anyone purchased from Lamnia? The online reviews were positive.

https://www.lamnia.com/en/p/781/hunting-and-shooting/msa-sordin-supreme-pro-x-earmuffs

v.

http://srstactical.com/all-products/headsets-and-hearing-protection/msa-sordin-supreme-range/msa-sordin-supreme-pro-x-788.html

For me, it was a question of buying from a legit US importer like SRS tactical with a proven track record of addressing warranty issues. Obviously ymmv.

As far as I know, everyone who took part in our group buy with SRS Tactical was treated right. Robert and his crew took care of us very well.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[OnionsAndDragons]

It's all about having CONUS based warranty service, especially if you do not have an identical back-up.

Int'l shipping is a PITA and just more risky and time consuming. Also, SRS is good people.

[Jim Watson]

Comment: I see a couple of links to this Trevor person's promotion of the Sordin. Looking across the spectrum, he finds a number of 38.7 for Sordin X muffs with 18 dB NRR. Sounds great, doesn't it? But if you apply Trevor Think to muffs with higher NRRs, lo and behold, you get higher Trevor Numbers, too. A Trevor Number of 45 is easy with a 29 dB NRR. More insulation is more insulation and the Sordin hasn't got a whole lot.

Question: Is there a "popular priced" muff with the gel cushions that everybody likes on the Sordin? Passives are fine, I find myself less and less interested in side comments while shooting and don't need electronics for routine use. If I am coaching or Safety Officer-ing, I have a set of the clunky but reasonably quiet HL Pro.

[Luke]

I've got some of the supreme pro x with gels and am thinking about trying to comtac's that GJM likes. So.. if anybody wants to trade let me know!

[RJ]

Comment: I see a couple of links to this Trevor person's promotion of the Sordin. Looking across the spectrum, he finds a number of 38.7 for Sordin X muffs with 18 dB NRR. Sounds great, doesn't it? But if you apply Trevor Think to muffs with higher NRRs, lo and behold, you get higher Trevor Numbers, too. A Trevor Number of 45 is easy with a 29 dB NRR. More insulation is more insulation and the Sordin hasn't got a whole lot.

Question: Is there a "popular priced" muff with the gel cushions that everybody likes on the Sordin? Passives are fine, I find myself less and less interested in side comments while shooting and don't need electronics for routine use. If I am coaching or Safety Officer-ing, I have a set of the clunky but reasonably quiet HL Pro.

SRS does the Sordin passive only with gel cups at $175.

http://srstactical.com/all-products/headsets-and-hearing-protection/msa-sordin-supreme-range/msa-sordin-supreme-basic-aux.html

I've seen a passive gel cup ear pro other than these, unfortunately.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hunter Osborne]

Bumping this thread to inquire of those who have the MSA Sordins. From all the reading I did, it appears SRS Tactical is good to go, but about $100 more than Lamnia (Finland). Beyond service, warranty, and 'Merica!, are there other reasons to spend an extra $100 for apparently the exact same product? Has anyone purchased from Lamnia? The online reviews were positive.

https://www.lamnia.com/en/p/781/hunting-and-shooting/msa-sordin-supreme-pro-x-earmuffs

v.

http://srstactical.com/all-products/headsets-and-hearing-protection/msa-sordin-supreme-range/msa-sordin-supreme-pro-x-788.html

I got my Sordins from SRS, it was a great experience and they shipped extremely quickly. Great people for sure.

[That Guy]

Has anyone purchased from Lamnia?

Never bought any electronics from those guys, but the few times I have bought something from them the service has always been extremely prompt. Like package shipped within one hour of making the order prompt. No complaints from me.

[Wendell]

...Is there a "popular priced" muff with the gel cushions that everybody likes on the Sordin? Passives are fine, I find myself less and less interested in side comments while shooting and don't need electronics for routine use. If I am coaching or Safety Officer-ing, I have a set of the clunky but reasonably quiet HL Pro.

Peltor sells the gel cups separately (the Sig Academy store has them) - and they do fit the non-amplified line, but at ~$50. you might as well put them on electronic muffs.

[Jared]

At about the same time as Trevor review was posted I was shopping for electronic ears. I wound up with a bit of an oddball set, the peltor ProTac. They have larger ear cups than the Sordins or the Comtac. Peltor gel cups popped right in with no issue. Now, they are bulkier, but I've been extremely pleased with the results I get when shooting handguns. Only thing I'll note is they have a tendency to let me know, with a series of beeps, when they've been on for a long time. When that happens I shut them off and turn them back on and it seems to reset whatever internal clock they have.

I do need to test them for interference from a long gun stock, but so far I've been as happy as I can be with them.

[Maca]

MSA Sordin with the neckband option are very comfortable, and are particularly great in the winter as you can wear a hat over them.

[KCBRUIN]

Anyone have experience with their Sordins in the rain? I instruct in occasional inclement weather, and the Military Arms Channel has recently been saying that his are shorting out from moisture. My cheap Peltors have held up through down pours with just a battery change. I'd like to upgrade to Sordins but now I'm a little apprehensive.

[RJ]

Anyone have experience with their Sordins in the rain? I instruct in occasional inclement weather, and the Military Arms Channel has recently been saying that his are shorting out from moisture. My cheap Peltors have held up through down pours with just a battery change. I'd like to upgrade to Sordins but now I'm a little apprehensive.

Careful which model Sordins.

You don't want a Pro (not Pro-X). This model is not totally waterproof and has only one year’s warranty. The Pro-X models are fully waterproof and have 5 years warranty.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[KCBRUIN]

Careful which model Sordins.

You don't want a Pro (not Pro-X). This model is not totally waterproof and has only one year’s warranty. The Pro-X models are fully waterproof and have 5 years warranty



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Excellent, exactly the info I needed thank you.

[Maca]

Was wearing my Sordin Pro X in a snow blizzard today with no issues. They were soaked.

I couldn't recommend them highly enough. Really just a great product.

[Peally]

I'm interested too, they don't look bad at first glance

[Reekus]

Does anyone have any experience with the Walker's Game Ear Razor Slim Electronic Muff (http://amzn.to/2pf9gCD)? They are available in a variety of colors starting at ~$19 plus ~$5 shipping and look like they probably seal as good or better than the Howard Leight Impact Sports (http://amzn.to/2pfnpzS) which typically cost 2-3 times as much.

15963 (http://amzn.to/2pf9gCD)

I have some, gave them out free at SHOT. I'm local to you Tom, you're welcome to them if you'd like to test them out, I am not a fan.

[Default.mp3]

For the ballers, shot-callers among us with 20" blades on their Impalas: http://soldiersystems.net/2017/04/19/warrior-west-sneak-peek-liberator-iv-v-from-tactical-command-industries/

I'm rather excited for that. The DEHPs certainly aren't cheap, but I'd love to see just how the new audio processing is.

[voodoo_man]

For the ballers, shot-callers among us with 20" blades on their Impalas: http://soldiersystems.net/2017/04/19/warrior-west-sneak-peek-liberator-iv-v-from-tactical-command-industries/

I'm rather excited for that. The DEHPs certainly aren't cheap, but I'd love to see just how the new audio processing is.

There's a local team that's issues safariland electronics, I've worn them for a weekend a few years ago and they are really good. I say a little better than the sordins I've got.

[GuanoLoco]

So, buy DEHP or hold out for Liberator HP? Been looking for a Safariland Sale, Discount Code, something!!!

[voodoo_man]

So, buy DEHP or hold out for Liberator HP? Been looking for a Safariland Sale, Discount Code, something!!!

Safariland has a big sale twice a year...I think either July 4th or black Friday, I don't remember.

[Clusterfrack]

Silynx (https://www.silynxcom.com/products/) is a very good system. It's similar to the military Nacre QuietPro, but smaller.

15996

[voodoo_man]

Safariland has a big sale twice a year...I think either July 4th or black Friday, I don't remember.

just got an email...


This week we treat you, our VIP, to an exclusive offer of 20% off all purchasable products site-wide and 25% off Safariland®, Bianchi® and TCI®, April 24-28, 2017.*
Enter promo code 042017 at checkout.

[Default.mp3]

Silynx (https://www.silynxcom.com/products/) is a very good system. It's similar to the military Nacre QuietPro, but smaller.

15996They're also on GovX. That being said, they're not muffs, so they'll provide less complete hearing protection, and the IEM style ain't for everyone.

[Clusterfrack]

I haven't had as much time with Silynx as with the Nacre, but my Nacre QuietPro has active noise cancellation that exceeds any muff I've used.

[Luke]

So, buy DEHP or hold out for Liberator HP? Been looking for a Safariland Sale, Discount Code, something!!!

Guy on Enos had a safariland discount code in the classifieds earlier today

[GuanoLoco]

just got an email...

Done, thanks voodoo_man!

[Default.mp3]

I haven't had as much time with Silynx as with the Nacre, but my Nacre QuietPro has active noise cancellation that exceeds any muff I've used.I'm mostly talking about bone conduction issues, which plugs are intrinsically unable to properly attenuate, since, well, they're plugs. Probably not a huge deal for most shooting, but I'll admit to having of cranked off some rounds in my shorty with a brake in an indoor range (usually at the request of the guys behind the counter, when they're trying to get rid of an annoying customer).

[GuanoLoco]

Oops, saw too late.

[Clusterfrack]

I'm mostly talking about bone conduction issues, which plugs are intrinsically unable to properly attenuate, since, well, they're plugs. Probably not a huge deal for most shooting, but I'll admit to having of cranked off some rounds in my shorty with a brake in an indoor range (usually at the request of the guys behind the counter, when they're trying to get rid of an annoying customer).

Yeah, I hear you about SBRs with a brake. I've done that myself. My understanding is that the Nacre is able to play an inverse waveform of the sound, and that reduces even bone conducted noise. At least, that was the sales pitch... I do find it pretty effective when I'm right next to a precision rifle with a brake.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Saw the email earlier today on LF but thx. to Pat (RIP brother) in 2008, I bought OTH Sordin Pro-Xs from a LF brother (Triad Tact), upgraded in 2013 when TCI had a 40% off Mem. Day sale w/ BTH DEHPs (TY again Pat) & nary an issue w/ either one since my initial purchases.

[voodoo_man]

Since I posted it here i'll post it again, just got an email from safariland...


VIPs GET UP TO 25% OFF
It’s true, good things come to VIPs! We wanted to say thanks for being one of our most valued customers. This week enjoy an exclusive offer of 25% off duty gear, Hatch® products, and firearm accessories, and 20% off all purchasable products site-wide May 15-19, 2017.*
Enter promo code 052017 at checkout.

[SamAdams]

I experienced a little high frequency hearing loss while waterfowling one day (watch cap interfered with seal on electronic ear muffs. Lesson learned). I may be more sensitive to muzzle blast than most people, so this subject is important to me. I have several electronic hearing muffs within reach of different firearms at the homestead. I've been quite satisfied with the performance of ProEars Gold models. I might check out Sordins just out of curiosity someday -

http://proears.com/pro-tac-mag-gold-series


P.S. - the Sordins have a stated rating of NRR 18, the Pro Ears above have a rating of NRR 30. So why are the Sordins so popular ?

[SamAdams]

16658

[GuanoLoco]

Behind the head DEHP's came in. Haven't had a chance to test them on the range but a little house testing seems to indicate audio compression, removing loud noise while allowing more moderate sound to come through.

I actually wish they amplified a bit more, double muffing with my 37? DB custom plugs makes it hard to hear normal conversation.

[RJ]

P.S. - the Sordins have a stated rating of NRR 18, the Pro Ears above have a rating of NRR 30. So why are the Sordins so popular ?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/trevoronthetrigger.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/msa-sordin-supreme-performance-the-misleading-nrr18db-rating/amp/

[OnionsAndDragons]

P.S. - the Sordins have a stated rating of NRR 18, the Pro Ears above have a rating of NRR 30. So why are the Sordins so popular ?

If I recall correctly, NRR is based off of the dampening of passive/constant noise. It is not a complete measurement of PPEs ability to mitigate or attenuate acute noise, like gunfire reports.

I know that I have had no issues with my Sordins at classes and doing 1-2 person long gun shooting. I would double up at a rifle class or indoor range, but I'd honestly do that with any other PPE.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DMF13]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/trevoronthetrigger.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/msa-sordin-supreme-performance-the-misleading-nrr18db-rating/amp/As I said the last time this was posted:

What jumps out at me is that write up only shows the performance of the MSA Sordin product over various frequencies, NOT that they out perform other products over the various frequencies.

I'll add, that the Sordins were designed for use by military and LE tactical teams, with a low profile so they can be worn with helmets, and additional electronics for comms. These are things most of us don't need for range use, and don't need to pay to get. While a slimmer profile can help some people with keeping a seal when shooting long guns, most of us don't need to sacrifice additional protection to get the very low profile needed to fit under a helmet.

You must sacrifice noise reduction performance to get a smaller size. The folks at MSA Sordin could get even greater performance if they would build larger sets, but that's not what they're building, and marketing for, with their headsets. They are making headsets for tactical teams using helmets and comms.

For use where the helmets aren't needed, larger headsets can be used to get a greater noise reduction.

[Luke]

For me the sordins work better than other stuff because they seal better. I wear a hat and sunglasses when I shoot and the gel really helps seal the gaps. I don't however use them like most. I don't turn them on and I double plug. I don't like to hear anything when I shoot. I'm easily distracted lol

They are also very comfortable and when I do turn them on the audio is very clear and crips. They also help me bond with the Timmy types at matches.

[GuanoLoco]

For me the sordins work better than other stuff because they seal better. I wear a hat and sunglasses when I shoot and the gel really helps seal the gaps. I don't however use them like most. I don't turn them on and I double plug. I don't like to hear anything when I shoot. I'm easily distracted lol

They are also very comfortable and when I do turn them on the audio is very clear and crips. They also help me bond with the Timmy types at matches.

I thought the double plugging was to block out the noise from that blasty-arse, teeth rattling open gun contraption you prefer to shoot.

Double-plugging and bonding... Is that what you kids are calling it these days?

[badf00d]

Although it doesn't have any transmit capability, I'm currently using a relatively inexpensive but very effective setup.

* Low profile musician ear buds - MEE audio M6 PRO (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B015S2I6A0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=pistolforum-20&linkId=6a6d5871d3c2dba8c35b7802b9dedaec)
* Gunsonics (http://www.essency.co.uk/gunsonics/) app on iPhone
* Walkers EXT Range (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AW5YFOK) or Low-Profile (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AW5YFR2) muffs

Just by using Comply Tx-200 tips (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BFUTCA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=pistolforum-20&linkId=12c0feac7b0427b9a3afed525777eaff) you already get some decent protection from the ear buds. The ear buds were specifically selected to be very low-profile so they can comfortably fit under muffs. The Gunsonics app adds active noise cancellation that was, for me, noticeably better than Howard Leight (NRR 22) electronic muffs. The amplification for low-volume sound is excellent. The only kicker is keeping the cord out of the way; running it under a shirt helps.

At this point the noise is already cut down quite a bit, but then over the ear buds I wear a pair of inexpensive, high-NRR Walkers (there are others just like them, nothing magic here) with a high 34 NRR. All in I'm at something like $70 for some very effective electronic protection. You can also improve the seal on ear muffs by wearing a pair of ESS Crossbow Suppressor ONE (http://www.opticsplanet.com/ess-crossbow-suppressor-one-ballistic-eyeshields.html) glasses.

[SamAdams]

As I said the last time this was posted:

What jumps out at me is that write up only shows the performance of the MSA Sordin product over various frequencies, NOT that they out perform other products over the various frequencies.

I'll add, that the Sordins were designed for use by military and LE tactical teams, with a low profile so they can be worn with helmets, and additional electronics for comms. These are things most of us don't need for range use, and don't need to pay to get. While a slimmer profile can help some people with keeping a seal when shooting long guns, most of us don't need to sacrifice additional protection to get the very low profile needed to fit under a helmet.

You must sacrifice noise reduction performance to get a smaller size. The folks at MSA Sordin could get even greater performance if they would build larger sets, but that's not what they're building, and marketing for, with their headsets. They are making headsets for tactical teams using helmets and comms.

For use where the helmets aren't needed, larger headsets can be used to get a greater noise reduction.

Very good points. I had actually read the article posted above some time earlier and thought the same as you -- "O.K., how does the Sordins actually compare to other manufacturers' products based on the same criteria? " I'm still looking, but haven't found that kind of detailed comparison review yet. I'm specifically interested in a comparison between the Pro-Ears NRR 30 electronic earmuffs and the Sordins from a practical viewpoint. For those of us not wearing helmets & needing comms, what works best ? Maybe I'll just need to end up buying a pair of Sordins to find out for myself.

P.S. - the ProEars NRR 30 earmuffs linked to above work great with any handgun. The bulk may cause cheek weld issues with particular long guns. In those cases, Ive needed to use slimmer earmuffs with correspondingly lower sound dampening rating.

[Jim Watson]

If you apply Ol' Trevor's logic to a good 30 dB NRR muff, you get about 45 Trevor Points vs the 38.6 Trevor Points he finds for the 18 dB Sordin.
More sound insulation is more insulation and cherrypicking the frequency does not change that.

I have some Pro Ears Ultra passives and they are my favorite. I should have bought the electronic version instead of trying to cheap out with a lesser brand.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Honestly, there are 2 big reasons I like the Sordins:

Gel seals, which a few others have now but are not quite as readily available.

And the big one for me: the neck band. I wear glasses all the time and the over the head just doesn't work for a long session or class for me. Especially w a hat. I don't need any more fucking dents in my head; I have enough, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DMF13]

Gel seals, which a few others have now but are not quite as readily available.I agree gel seals are great, and was very glad I was shown how to use them with any Peltor set: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?23077-Life-Hacks-Thread&p=601494#post601494

:cool:

[GRV]

Although it doesn't have any transmit capability, I'm currently using a relatively inexpensive but very effective setup.

* Low profile musician ear buds - MEE audio M6 PRO (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B015S2I6A0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=pistolforum-20&linkId=6a6d5871d3c2dba8c35b7802b9dedaec)
* Gunsonics (http://www.essency.co.uk/gunsonics/) app on iPhone
* Walkers EXT Range (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AW5YFOK) or Low-Profile (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AW5YFR2) muffs

Just by using Comply Tx-200 tips (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BFUTCA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=pistolforum-20&linkId=12c0feac7b0427b9a3afed525777eaff) you already get some decent protection from the ear buds. The ear buds were specifically selected to be very low-profile so they can comfortably fit under muffs. The Gunsonics app adds active noise cancellation that was, for me, noticeably better than Howard Leight (NRR 22) electronic muffs. The amplification for low-volume sound is excellent. The only kicker is keeping the cord out of the way; running it under a shirt helps.

At this point the noise is already cut down quite a bit, but then over the ear buds I wear a pair of inexpensive, high-NRR Walkers (there are others just like them, nothing magic here) with a high 34 NRR. All in I'm at something like $70 for some very effective electronic protection. You can also improve the seal on ear muffs by wearing a pair of ESS Crossbow Suppressor ONE (http://www.opticsplanet.com/ess-crossbow-suppressor-one-ballistic-eyeshields.html) glasses.

So you're plugging the ear buds into your phone and having the phone send you the ambient audio from the range?

If so, kudos, very cool idea. I have wanted to try a similar setup for a long time, but I don't trust an app to do the sound compression. Basically, I've been wishing that TCI or MSA would add an audio output headphone jack to the muffs that sent the compressed feed from the mics. Currently, there is only an audio input jack afaik, for comms. While not all ear buds offer earplug-level sound reduction, there are some that definitely do, depending on how much money you're willing to spend.

ETA: Barring that, if I obtain sufficient disposable income I'm planning on testing electronic range ear plugs under electronic muffs to see if the ambient signal makes it all the way through cleanly. I've asked if anyone has tried this on PF a few times before, but all I get is crickets. (And I know for a fact some of you suckers have had access to both! ;):p )

Bottom line is that I wanna see the benefits of doubling up with all the benefits of the electronic ambient audio. The technology is already here. While maybe overkill for the range, I would think that it'd be a big benefit to folks already kitting up with CommTacs and TCIs to go into harm's way.

[RJ]

Although it doesn't have any transmit capability, I'm currently using a relatively inexpensive but very effective setup.

* Low profile musician ear buds - MEE audio M6 PRO (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B015S2I6A0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=pistolforum-20&linkId=6a6d5871d3c2dba8c35b7802b9dedaec)
* Gunsonics (http://www.essency.co.uk/gunsonics/) app on iPhone
* Walkers EXT Range (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AW5YFOK) or Low-Profile (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AW5YFR2) muffs

Just by using Comply Tx-200 tips (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BFUTCA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=pistolforum-20&linkId=12c0feac7b0427b9a3afed525777eaff) you already get some decent protection from the ear buds. The ear buds were specifically selected to be very low-profile so they can comfortably fit under muffs. The Gunsonics app adds active noise cancellation that was, for me, noticeably better than Howard Leight (NRR 22) electronic muffs. The amplification for low-volume sound is excellent. The only kicker is keeping the cord out of the way; running it under a shirt helps.

At this point the noise is already cut down quite a bit, but then over the ear buds I wear a pair of inexpensive, high-NRR Walkers (there are others just like them, nothing magic here) with a high 34 NRR. All in I'm at something like $70 for some very effective electronic protection. You can also improve the seal on ear muffs by wearing a pair of ESS Crossbow Suppressor ONE (http://www.opticsplanet.com/ess-crossbow-suppressor-one-ballistic-eyeshields.html) glasses.

That is a pretty cool idea.

[badf00d]

So you're plugging the ear buds into your phone and having the phone send you the ambient audio from the range?

If so, kudos, very cool idea. I have wanted to try a similar setup for a long time, but I don't trust an app to do the sound compression.

Yes, the buds plug into the phone, and the phone does all the sound processing.

Thanks. It's working very well for me. The app actually does a remarkable job, where it's not just sound compression, but actual cancellation. You even configure it for the specific kind of gunfire you're encountering. At first the idea seemed crazy to me, but then I realized the computer inside my iPhone, given the right software, is waaaaaay more capable than anything that would be attached to a circuit board in a pair of muffs.

[badf00d]

That is a pretty cool idea.

Thanks! :)

[Soggy]

Peltor Tac 100's on sale at Amazon for $50.10, RangeGuards for $38.17:

https://www.amazon.com/dlp/8e1a0e8a/ref=gbps_tit_s-3_7853_8e1a0e8a?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=f13644b6-14e2-4437-8d0c-bad12b8e7853&pf_rd_s=slot-3&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=5QPQNCVF7QWRAM0CFZA7

Any opinions on these and the prices? Could use a back up to my Sordins.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Peltor Tac 100's on sale at Amazon for $50.10, RangeGuards for $38.17:

https://www.amazon.com/dlp/8e1a0e8a/ref=gbps_tit_s-3_7853_8e1a0e8a?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=f13644b6-14e2-4437-8d0c-bad12b8e7853&pf_rd_s=slot-3&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=5QPQNCVF7QWRAM0CFZA7

Any opinions on these and the prices? Could use a back up to my Sordins.

I've been looking at picking up the RangeGuards as backups myself. I've had good experience w profit for non shooting ear pro.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dave J]

Peltor Tac 100's on sale at Amazon for $50.10, RangeGuards for $38.17:

https://www.amazon.com/dlp/8e1a0e8a/ref=gbps_tit_s-3_7853_8e1a0e8a?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=f13644b6-14e2-4437-8d0c-bad12b8e7853&pf_rd_s=slot-3&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=5QPQNCVF7QWRAM0CFZA7

Any opinions on these and the prices? Could use a back up to my Sordins.

I sent my wife a set of Tac 100's when she was going through FLETC a few years ago. The price was right, and they were an improvement over the non-electronic muffs her agency issued, but not in the same league as Com-Tacs or Sordins. The 100's do not amplify normal sound anywhere near as well as the premium muffs, IMHO. IIRC, gel cups would fit, so that's a big advantage in my book.

No experience with the RangeGuards.

[GRV]

Yes, the buds plug into the phone, and the phone does all the sound processing.

Thanks. It's working very well for me. The app actually does a remarkable job, where it's not just sound compression, but actual cancellation. You even configure it for the specific kind of gunfire you're encountering. At first the idea seemed crazy to me, but then I realized the computer inside my iPhone, given the right software, is waaaaaay more capable than anything that would be attached to a circuit board in a pair of muffs.

Cool.

It's not the processing power I'm concerned about, it's the electronics lag. The longer it takes to "cancel" it, the more impulsive sound is making it through. Dedicated hardware is always going to beat an app on speed there.

The upside of the MSAs and TCIs is the compression, as opposed to normal muffs cut-out methodology. There are multiple benefits to the compression approach.

I'm no audio engineer, but when you say "cancel" I think of Bose QuietComfort type phase-based technology. My understanding was that that only works for extended duration sounds, not impulses. Can you share more details on that?

[GRV]

Also, I don't see how active noise cancelation is even consistent with the concept of piping audio from the mic to the muffs......with only one mic, there's nothing to discriminate between.

With no information, I would have guessed that any app marketed for this purpose is just piping audio through and cutting out when it detects an impulse, like the cheaper electronic earpro does. Speed is definitely a concern there.

[peterb]

Cool.

It's not the processing power I'm concerned about, it's the electronics lag. The longer it takes to "cancel" it, the more impulsive sound is making it through. Dedicated hardware is always going to beat an app on speed there.

The upside of the MSAs and TCIs is the compression, as opposed to normal muffs cut-out methodology. There are multiple benefits to the compression approach.

I'm no audio engineer, but when you say "cancel" I think of Bose QuietComfort type phase-based technology. My understanding was that that only works for extended duration sounds, not impulses. Can you share more details on that?

As I understand it, true cancellation requires generating an inverted "mirror image" waveform of the offending pressure wave. As such it works well for steady-state noise, such as aircraft engines, but is harder to implement for sounds that change rapidly in frequency and amplitude. There's a limit to how fast the system can respond.

The problem is that if the cancellation waveform is incorrect, it will amplify the original noise. Not good.

I can imagine a system that was optimized for typical gunshots, or that could "learn" what a typical gunshot impulse signal looked like. I don't know if anything like that is commercially available.

[GRV]

As I understand it, true cancellation requires generating an inverted "mirror image" waveform of the offending pressure wave. As such it works well for steady-state noise, such as aircraft engines, but is harder to implement for sounds that change rapidly in frequency and amplitude. There's a limit to how fast the system can respond.

The problem is that if the cancellation waveform is incorrect, it will amplify the original noise. Not good.

I can imagine a system that was optimized for typical gunshots, or that could "learn" what a typical gunshot impulse signal looked like. I don't know if anything like that is commercially available.

Yea, but any such system would have to be exceptionally fast and precise to time the "negative" impulse delivered by the headphones to match up with the real impulse that is coming from the environment, otherwise you're just going to get two impulses sent to the ear. This is what I figured is the main obstacle, which you've stated more precisely.

Setting aside the issue of impulses vs. steady-state noise, it's furthermore not clear to me how well this has to be calibrated to the particular set of headphones; particularly how to compensate for attenuation and distortion that the true impulse is going to see passing through the muffs. For over-the-ear headphones, especially a known set, I can see this not being so hard, which is why Bose QuietComforts aren't surprising (and the issue seems like it would less dramatically effect steady-state noise compared to impulsive signals). Getting this right for in-ear headphones (which have a much less consistent interface with the ear for different people) on top of doing that for a ton of different unknown such sets of earbuds seems very difficult, and so I find the idea of an active cancelling app even more surprising or hard to believe. I could be totally misunderstanding the circumstances though.

[badf00d]

The app is free to try in 30 minute chunks. Feel free to experiment with it to check out its usefulness to you. After using it a few times, I felt that it helped me enough to be worth spending the $10 they ask for it.

At that time, I had just received a pair Howard Leight Impact Sport muffs, and felt they didn't offer nearly enough noise protection by comparison - so I returned them the next day.

[GRV]

The app is free to try in 30 minute chunks. Feel free to experiment with it to check out its usefulness to you. After using it a few times, I felt that it helped me enough to be worth spending the $10 they ask for it.

At that time, I had just received a pair Howard Leight Impact Sport muffs, and felt they didn't offer nearly enough noise protection by comparison - so I returned them the next day.

Unfortunately, I don't have an iPhone.

I'm back at a real computer and was able to go read some details on the Gunsonics website. It appears at a glance that they are using a compression technique, similar to MSA/TCI. This is the right way to do it IMO. As to whether doing this processing on iPhone is good enough to ensure there aren't any unsafe artifacts making it through, I have no clue and definitely not enough knowledge on the topic to evaluate that, but if I had to guess I'd bet it's fine.

The reason the Howard Leights didn't compare is because they don't offer nearly as good noise-reduction as the regular muffs you're using with the app. That's really the brilliant part about the app approach: you get to use passive muffs which have much better NRR. I didn't realize that the app was designed around this, which is what fueled some of my earlier misunderstanding.

The Gunsonics website recommends buying "Ultimate Ear" custom molded in-ear monitors to use under passive muffs. This is exactly what my original intentions were, and I definitely think going with custom molded IEMs under high NRR passive muffs is the pinnacle of electronic ear pro obtainable today..........Well...there's a catch... The company "Ultimate Ears" is an american company that more or less invented the custom in-ear-monitor. I have first-hand experience with them, and they're the gold standard IMO. This "Ultimate Ear" that Gunsonics is linking too seems to be a completely unrelated British company that is stealing the UE brand identity. For that reason, I'd caution anyone against buying their IEM product. The real "Ultimate Ears" however, are awesome if you have the budget. A topic for another thread. If someone is interested in burning cash on custom IEMs for the sole sake of range earpro though, I'd recommend looking at other brands too, because the soft-mold IEMs from Westone (or optional on the UE reference monitors) might actually offer a bit more NRR and comfort.


tl;dr...badf00d, you basically have the best range earpro setup there is, I've wanted it for a loooong, time, and yes, I'm jelly :cool:

[GRV]

The amplification for low-volume sound is excellent.

I should have seen this earlier. That's the key tell that you're dealing with compression as opposed to active cancellation. Sorry, for wasting everyone's time.


Btw badf00d, good call on the Comply tips, and I too am a fan of ESS Crossbow's and running earbud cords through the shirt ;)

[DMF13]

Peltor Tac 100's on sale at Amazon for $50.10, RangeGuards for $38.17:

https://www.amazon.com/dlp/8e1a0e8a/ref=gbps_tit_s-3_7853_8e1a0e8a?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=f13644b6-14e2-4437-8d0c-bad12b8e7853&pf_rd_s=slot-3&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=5QPQNCVF7QWRAM0CFZA7

Any opinions on these and the prices? Could use a back up to my Sordins.I own the RangeGuards, and they are good, and that's a very good price. They are much better than the other budget option, the Howard Leight Impact Sport.

I couldn't find any practical difference between the RangeGuard and Tactical 100. So rather than pay extra for a box that says "Tactical" and ear cups that are black, I got the RangeGuard.

They are very good for a "budget" electronic earpro. However, they don't have the gel seals the MSA Sordins have, and it will cost you another $45 to upgrade to the gel seals.

At roughly half the price of MSA Sordins low end sets, get the Peltor Tactical 300s (24db NRR), and the gel seals ($100 for the earpro and $45 for the gel seals).

Here is what you need to know to use the gel seals on the RangeGuard or the Tactical series ear pro:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?23077-Life-Hacks-Thread&p=601494#post601494

[Robinson]

If you apply Ol' Trevor's logic to a good 30 dB NRR muff, you get about 45 Trevor Points vs the 38.6 Trevor Points he finds for the 18 dB Sordin.
More sound insulation is more insulation and cherrypicking the frequency does not change that.

I have some Pro Ears Ultra passives and they are my favorite. I should have bought the electronic version instead of trying to cheap out with a lesser brand.

In my experience Pro Ears muffs perform very well, but I hate the cheapo plastic headband they use on all their models.

[Maca]

I’ve been very happy with MSA Sordin Pro X. Very comfortable and the electronics are excellent.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I’ve been very happy with MSA Sordin Pro X. Very comfortable and the electronics are excellent.

Agree 100%, used my OTH Sord. Pro-X’s Sat. @ a match, been using that pair since 2008 when Pat (RIP) & Mike Hueser encouraged my move to them.

Was fortunate to add a set of TCI (before Safariland’s purchase) OTH DEHP’s in 2013 when they ran a 30% off sale, which Safariland still offers in sim. sales semi-annually to this day.

[Spartan1980]

Yes, the buds plug into the phone, and the phone does all the sound processing.

Thanks. It's working very well for me. The app actually does a remarkable job, where it's not just sound compression, but actual cancellation. You even configure it for the specific kind of gunfire you're encountering. At first the idea seemed crazy to me, but then I realized the computer inside my iPhone, given the right software, is waaaaaay more capable than anything that would be attached to a circuit board in a pair of muffs.

Hope you are still following as I have a question.

Some background. I have pretty severe hearing loss in my right ear and downright profound loss in my left, I can still hear but it's just to the point of a cochlear implant according to the doc. I bought a set of MSA Supreme Pro-X along with a set of Surefire EP3s (to double with for indoor use) and I still have issues hearing normal conversation. The cheapo HL Impact Sports I wore for years were actually a little better in this regard but I never double plugged. The problem with the MSAs is twofold. The EP3s block too much for my hearing loss level and that without the EP3s I can hear the gravel crunching under someone's feet at 50 yards, the wind, the indoor ventilation system and the shots coming from indoor bays on each side of me LOUD and CLEAR. But I can't hear the instructor standing right in front of me or at my shoulder instructing.

Does the app do well at blocking the extraneous stuff out? I'm really tempted to give the Safariland triple processor set a go but think you may well be right about the phone being able to process far far more than a dedicated chip on a board or even 3 of them.

[badf00d]

Does the app do well at blocking the extraneous stuff out? I'm really tempted to give the Safariland triple processor set a go but think you may well be right about the phone being able to process far far more than a dedicated chip on a board or even 3 of them.

It's really trying to cancel and reduce the volume of loud bangs. While I don't think it tries to filter out extraneous sounds, I find it amplifies voices very well for me. It amplifies anything that is not really loud. Sometimes it's almost spooky because I think someone said something right behind me, but when I turn around they're on the other end of the range.

The app is free to try for 30 minutes, and is a free download. I would definitely recommend you give it a try to see how it works for you.

[Spartan1980]

It's really trying to cancel and reduce the volume of loud bangs. While I don't think it tries to filter out extraneous sounds, I find it amplifies voices very well for me. It amplifies anything that is not really loud. Sometimes it's almost spooky because I think someone said something right behind me, but when I turn around they're on the other end of the range.

The app is free to try for 30 minutes, and is a free download. I would definitely recommend you give it a try to see how it works for you.

Wow! Thanks for the fast reply! It sounds like exactly what the MSAs do. I hear stuff a long ways off and the sense of direction is as if I don't have anything on at all. It's to the point of it being just freaky and takes a little getting used to. I think I will give it a try, for the price there just isn't much to lose. Thanks again...

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

For the ballers, shot-callers among us with 20" blades on their Impalas: http://soldiersystems.net/2017/04/19/warrior-west-sneak-peek-liberator-iv-v-from-tactical-command-industries/

I'm rather excited for that. The DEHPs certainly aren't cheap, but I'd love to see just how the new audio processing is.

Does anyone here have the new Liberator HPs, UNC if Safariland is even shipping them yet so ......

[Default.mp3]

Does anyone here have the new Liberator HPs, UNC if Safariland is even shipping them yet so ......Dunno if you saw, but they are on the website now: http://www.safariland.com/products/comms-and-hearing-protection/hearing-protection/electronic-hearing-protection/liberator-hp-LIB_HP.html#sm.0012kl21b1e79ex3pyf1bumq5ofyd

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Dunno if you saw, but they are on the website now: http://www.safariland.com/products/comms-and-hearing-protection/hearing-protection/electronic-hearing-protection/liberator-hp-LIB_HP.html#sm.0012kl21b1e79ex3pyf1bumq5ofyd

Thx, I saw that last week, even had them in my cart for a bud but he didn’t jump, even forwarded him the sale notice they sent me.

It was somewhat fortuitous IMO as 2 weeks ago he tried on my BTH DEHPs & my OTH Sord X’s my son had on & he even commented on how comfortable & nice the audio was.

Cat is an ED Doc, very solid shooter & I always like it when he’s @ the Mass I’m working on Sun, as he can handle ANY med. issue that may occur plus he always has his blaster on as well.

[Default.mp3]

Does anyone here have the new Liberator HPs, UNC if Safariland is even shipping them yet so ......FWIW, I spoke to a TCI rep today (Brad Medine, who was apparently quite high on the totem pole, and was there in the original pre-Safariland days) about the Liberator HPs. They are currently shipping, but due to excess demand from government entities, there is currently substantial lead time even on the HPs, not the mention the IVs and Vs; he quoted me 45 days for the current Liberator HPs on the website. He also stated that there are additional colorways coming, with the FDEs coming up next, hoping for a February release, and that plain black (without the red rubber accents) and OD were definitely coming.

Beyond that, random stuff include that he usually kept his DEHPs and Sordin Supreme Pro-Xs at maximum volume, but that with the Liberator HPs, he tended to just keep it at medium volume. He also said that the universal mounts (which allow for easy swapping between the top helmet rails, rear helmet rails, or headbands) would be available for separate purchase if you wanted. He really talked up the positional sound of the Liberators, even compared to the DEHPs.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Thx for the followup & detail Default, reminds me of my home (LF) where I also know ya from.

Given the current delay plus some additional choices happening in 2018, I’ll sit tight until I get the Safariland update emails in the next few months.

[PhillySoldier]

I have had Tinnitus since my deployment in 2004. Within the last year someone recommended the below electronic hearing protection and I can only say Im wishing I wouldve tried these years ago. Great at filtering out the gunshots as well as amplifying regular talk. So much so that im about to start wearing them around the house I hear so much better w them on. Additional features that I love is that it connects via bluetooth to my phone. I can take calls right through the head set or something that I like to do while shooting is being able to listen to music or an audio book.


Peltor Sport Tactical 500 Electronic Hearing Protector, Bluetooth Wireless Ear Protection, NRR 26 dB, Ideal for Shooting and Hunting
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W56YRWJ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Super77]

PSA: Liberator HP on sale $207 shipped at 20% off with code "SPRINGTRAINING"

Ends today.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

PSA: Liberator HP on sale $207 shipped at 20% off with code "SPRINGTRAINING"

Ends today.

Received the same email today, glad I placed my order a few weeks back & looking forward to using them soon.

[2xAGM114]

I always, always, always double up - even outdoors.

Shack. Likewise in a career where hearing is tested regularly. Double up every time.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

FWIW, I spoke to a TCI rep today (Brad Medine, who was apparently quite high on the totem pole, and was there in the original pre-Safariland days) about the Liberator HPs. They are currently shipping, but due to excess demand from government entities, there is currently substantial lead time even on the HPs, not the mention the IVs and Vs; he quoted me 45 days for the current Liberator HPs on the website. He also stated that there are additional colorways coming, with the FDEs coming up next, hoping for a February release, and that plain black (without the red rubber accents) and OD were definitely coming.

Beyond that, random stuff include that he usually kept his DEHPs and Sordin Supreme Pro-Xs at maximum volume, but that with the Liberator HPs, he tended to just keep it at medium volume. He also said that the universal mounts (which allow for easy swapping between the top helmet rails, rear helmet rails, or headbands) would be available for separate purchase if you wanted. He really talked up the positional sound of the Liberators, even compared to the DEHPs.

Default have you or ANYONE else on PF received & used a pair of Lib HP's yet?

Looking for some feedback as I placed my order in mid-March but they're still backed up on delivery due to the demand mentioned above.

[Default.mp3]

Default have you or ANYONE else on PF received & used a pair of Lib HP's yet?

Looking for some feedback as I placed my order in mid-March but they're still backed up on delivery due to the demand mentioned above.Can't say I have, I'm still waiting on them to release their multi-attachment style version. I've heard people that messed with them at SHOT rave about them, but dunno anything other than that. I'll probably actually call in one of these days and ask for updates on the multi-attachment version.

[banzaijohn]

I ordered my Liberators from Safariland at the end of December 2017 and finally received them ten days ago. Tried them yesterday and they are very comfortable. The gel ear pads are much better than the upgraded Sordin's, although I prefer the padded headband of the Sordins. The hearing protection is noticeably superior to the Sordins and they pick up and amplify the ambient sound much better than the Sordins. The battery compartment is easily accessible from the outside and you can use AAA or Lithium 123 batteries. The included instructions leave a lot to be desired though. All in all, the Liberators are superior in every way that matters (Safariland's customer service is really lacking though, I sent at least two or three emails asking for an ETA on my order and never received a response).

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Banzai thx for the detailed update, seems I needn’t trouble w/ emailing Safariland CS re. delivery time frame & just be patient, thx again for that feedback.

[GRV]

If someone has first hand experience with both the HPs and the DEHPs in person I'd be curious to hear a comparison review.

[s0nspark]

Has anyone here had any experience with the new Harris & Sons in ears (https://harrisandsons.com/)?

Just wondering how much of the hype I'm hearing is, well, hype...

[Larry Sellers]

Has anyone here had any experience with the new Harris & Sons in ears (https://harrisandsons.com/)?

Just wondering how much of the hype I'm hearing is, well, hype...Ditto! I'm thinking this may be a good purchase for me this year. They look great.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Default.mp3]

If someone has first hand experience with both the HPs and the DEHPs in person I'd be curious to hear a comparison review. Brad had basically said that the DEHPs were totally outclassed by the HPs, due to being totally new technology on the inside.

As for the poor CS, apparently they are contending with large government orders, which makes estimating ship dates difficult, though that's no excuse for flat out zero response.

There currently no firm plans for the universal suspension for the HPs, but they do plan on taking a serious look as to whether or not the market would be able to support both the standard OTH suspension and the universal suspension, as the latter adds quite a bit to the cost (~160 USD, IIRC). Brad told me to call him again in a couple of weeks, and hopefully they will have done an analysis by then, and made a firm decision either way.

[banzaijohn]

Good news, the last set of Liberators HPs I ordered for my daughter in FDE showed up 2 weeks after I ordered. These came directly from TCI and had an instruction manual, the adapter for the CR123 battery and AAA batteries (the original I received from Safariland didn't come with the adapter, batteries and had a xeroxed page of the manual). So they must have their supply chain worked out.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Thx for the update Banzai, received my Lib HP’s on 11 April after ordering them from Safariland the middle of March.

That said, mine came w/ AAA batts, a standard own. manual & everything else EXCEPT a battery tray. Found a good thread on BARFCOM which had an unboxing etc. that also mentioned the missing batt. tray, that until that time had stumped me on trying to use 123s as there was no mention of it in the quick user guide or the owners manual.

[SemperFi0317]

I guess this is a pistol thread, but don’t any of you find it hard to acquire targets with an AR awhile wearing muffs on? Maybe it’s nust my bold but they don’t do jack for me in that situation. Otherwise double up or pay the consequences.

[PhillySoldier]

I dont know why so many seem interested in the Liberator HP. Looks like everyone is having trouble even getting them and the reviews Im looking at only give it a 2.8 rating. I have the Peltor Sport Tactical 500 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W56YRWJ/ref=oh_aui_sear7ch_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1) (4.5 rating w over a hundred reviews) at near half the price and they seem to have more functionality than the Lib's. If Im missing something, please let me know. I really like my Peltors but never opposed to trying something that might be even better.

[Duelist]

So, this happened today:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MAVY9U0#customerReviews

I’m not very sophisticated on this stuff. I’m a musician, so I’ve always plugged and muffed to protect what is left of my hearing, and got my first set of electronics after I couldn’t hear a cease fire on the range one day. They’re Howard Leights, and they work, but I always wondered how much better the better ones are.

These are so much better. I could probably stand to shoot some guns without plugs under. The electronics are better, the cups are better, the sound proofing is better. These are my new best friends.

[Default.mp3]

I dont know why so many seem interested in the Liberator HP. Looks like everyone is having trouble even getting them and the reviews Im looking at only give it a 2.8 rating. I have the Peltor Sport Tactical 500 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W56YRWJ/ref=oh_aui_sear7ch_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1) (4.5 rating w over a hundred reviews) at near half the price and they seem to have more functionality than the Lib's. If Im missing something, please let me know. I really like my Peltors but never opposed to trying something that might be even better.The Peltors don't appear to be a duty-ready piece of gear; no mention of environmental protection, particularly water resistance. They also have no means of being set up for comms, which the Liberator HPs can be retrofitted for. The reviews on the Liberator HPs aren't really indicative of most folk's interest, which is a next generation duty-grade hearing protection, given that the Sordin Supreme Pro-X and Peltor Comtacs are both relatively old designs that have not seen any updates in the electronics (AFAIK) for probably a decade now.

[Duelist]

I guess this is a pistol thread, but don’t any of you find it hard to acquire targets with an AR awhile wearing muffs on? Maybe it’s nust my bold but they don’t do jack for me in that situation. Otherwise double up or pay the consequences.

I double up, but don’t seem to have a problem if the muffs are any good.

[RJ]

So, this happened today:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MAVY9U0#customerReviews

I’m not very sophisticated on this stuff. I’m a musician, so I’ve always plugged and muffed to protect what is left of my hearing, and got my first set of electronics after I couldn’t hear a cease fire on the range one day. They’re Howard Leights, and they work, but I always wondered how much better the better ones are.

These are so much better. I could probably stand to shoot some guns without plugs under. The electronics are better, the cups are better, the sound proofing is better. These are my new best friends.

They look nice, and a great price too.

Did you get the gel cups? I have to say the gel cups for my Sordins seem to make a big difference in comfort, what with them sealing better around my glasses earpiece than foam muffs.

I’ve had the HL Impact Sorts and Impact Pros, and for the price point are hard to beat for occasional use. The Sordins were at the eye-watering end of cost but they work extremely well and very reliable.

These Peltors with gel might be a great new mid range price alternative.

[Duelist]

They look nice, and a great price too.

Did you get the gel cups? I have to say the gel cups for my Sordins seem to make a big difference in comfort, what with them sealing better around my glasses earpiece than foam muffs.

I’ve had the HL Impact Sorts and Impact Pros, and for the price point are hard to beat for occasional use. The Sordins were at the eye-watering end of cost but they work extremely well and very reliable.

These Peltors with gel might be a great new mid range price alternative.

I did not get the gel cups. The cups that came on them fit better than the HL, and seal much better. I may well try out the gel cups, too.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Another question RE: the new Liberators,

I am in need of new electronic hearing protection. I have no need for an optional communications feature and the whole CR123 battery option means nothing to me. I don't plan on helmet mounting whatever option I choose either.

I can get the Peltor Comtac III Hearing Deffenders or the Tactical Pros for less money and quicker shipping. Am I doing myself a great disservice by choosing one of these over the new offering from Safariland?

[Default.mp3]

I can get the Peltor Comtac III Hearing Deffenders or the Tactical Pros for less money and quicker shipping. Am I doing myself a great disservice by choosing one of these over the new offering from Safariland?In theory, given the active noise cancelling aspect, the Liberator HPs can protect your hearing better and/or have better sound reproduction, particularly in constant high noise environments (e.g., sitting next to a car engine or in a flying aircraft), as the active noise cancellation reduces the constant noise, without blocking out more impulse-ish noises, such as gunshots or voice comms. Typical hearing protection only clips the overall sound level, which means that all basically run together, and can make picking out particular sounds difficult (a bit similar to the cocktail party problem, which is a significant unsolved problem in hearing aid design, where a user is unable to pick up specific conversations at a loud cocktail party due to all the voices running together: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocktail_party_effect).

Again, this is all in theory, and works only if the Liberator HPs live up to the hype.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

The thread over on AR15 was just updated. More negative feedback from the end-users.

I got a good deal on some Peltor Comtac III Hearing Defenders. Felt this was also a pretty safe option and a quality, vetted, product.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

The thread over on AR15 was just updated. More negative feedback from the end-users.

I got a good deal on some Peltor Comtac III Hearing Defenders. Felt this was also a pretty safe option and a quality, vetted, product.

I’ve been following that thread since I received my Lib HPs a few weeks back. Ran them that wknd @ a steel match & they are on par w/ my DEHPs, perhaps better but it will take some more usage to determine that.

That said the cat that posted the pics & initial feedback sure seems to have it in for the HPs, as do most in that thread, almost pre-judged IMO .......... whatever.

[Jim Watson]

How is the Liberator getting active noise cancellation of an impulse like muzzle blast?

[CAKEPWNER]

Hello guys, thought I'd pop in and chat with you all personally. I'm the guy that posted the Liberator HP thread over on AR15.com.

Let's address something first: to OldRunner - I have no affiliation with Peltor, MSA, or Safariland. All gear I buy is paid for out of my own pocket, no one gives me this stuff for free, I am not paid to write positively and/or bash anyone. I'm just some schmuck, no one is paying me to do anything. Don't take this as some sort of confrontation, it's not. You implied I and other members of AR15.com have some ulterior motive and that is not the case. I have nothing personal against you and this is in no way intended as an insult to you or anyone else here, just wanted to clear the air.

Anyone that read my thread will know my set did not ship ready to use CR123A batteries so that was a mark against Safariland right out of the box, then came the revelation after speaking with a TCI rep that the NFC feature is not ready for use. I'll admit I was a bit terse/crude in my initial postings but I wasn't exactly thrilled to learn my $223 (got it during the March sale) headset was missing critical features that were meant to make it revolutionary in the electronic earpro market. I have yet to receive the CR123A battery tray.

On top of all that the sound quality is objectively worse than both my Sordins and Peltor ComTacs. How anyone can claim otherwise, unless I just got a lemon, is beyond me. I'd love to record the sound quality of each headset and post up a recording on YouTube but to do so properly would probably require something like a binaural microphone which given their cost is out of the question for me. The sound is flat, lacking in tonal depth, and puts wind/unwanted background noise right up front. The claims of superior sound localization fall totally flat, the HP is no better than the Sordins or ComTacs in this regard, and those headsets aren't great at sound localization to begin with.

Depending on what exactly the NFC feature allows you to do, the sound quality could likely be improved. Actually, I know it can because strangely the headset actually sounds ok on "dual mode", with the standard impulse noise blocking and ANC on. However, in impulse only mode is where the sound quality falls apart.

I understand a lot of police/Mil. users are excited about the HP as a comms headset, but as a casual/sport/whatever-you-want-to-call-it shooter sound quality is most relevant to me next to noise protection. I don't run or even posses any sort of comm equipment beyond bubble pack radios so the headsets potential as a comms unit is 100% irrelevant to me and will be for most shooters.

Stacked up on top of all that we have the extremely poor manual (happy to post pics if you want to see what I mean) and lack of transparency on the part of Safariland in regards to several pieces of critical info like environmental resistance (waterproofing for example). The headset is supposedly waterproofed to 15 feet but the manual and product page still fail to make any mention of this, that was only seen in an early promo release about the Liberator IV/V.

To hopefully answer Jim Watsons question, the ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) feature produces audible "bumps" of counter noise to combat steady-state sound. I'll admit to not having tested the headset in an appropriate environment to really test the ANC feature. How this feature helps with impulse noise like gunfire I don't know, I'm not a sound engineer. I'm guessing it it would help defeat other sound frequencies not combated effectively by more standard methods, theoretically aiding in upping the NRR for impulse noise. That's my guess anyway, wouldn't take it as gospel.

If you guys have any questions about Sordins, ComTacs, or the Liberator HPs ask away. Happy to help and answer any questions I can. Feel free to request pics or any odd thing you might want to know about any of them. :)

[Nephrology]

Hello guys, thought I'd pop in and chat with you all personally. I'm the guy that posted the Liberator HP thread over on AR15.com.

Let's address something first: to OldRunner - I have no affiliation with Peltor, MSA, or Safariland. All gear I buy is paid for out of my own pocket, no one gives me this stuff for free, I am not paid to write positively and/or bash anyone. I'm just some schmuck, no one is paying me to do anything. Don't take this as some sort of confrontation, it's not. You implied I and other members of AR15.com have some ulterior motive and that is not the case. I have nothing personal against you and this is in no way intended as an insult to you or anyone else here, just wanted to clear the air.

Anyone that read my thread will know my set did not ship ready to use CR123A batteries so that was a mark against Safariland right out of the box, then came the revelation after speaking with a TCI rep that the NFC feature is not ready for use. I'll admit I was a bit terse/crude in my initial postings but I wasn't exactly thrilled to learn my $223 (got it during the March sale) headset was missing critical features that were meant to make it revolutionary in the electronic earpro market. I have yet to receive the CR123A battery tray.

On top of all that the sound quality is objectively worse than both my Sordins and Peltor ComTacs. How anyone can claim otherwise, unless I just got a lemon, is beyond me. I'd love to record the sound quality of each headset and post up a recording on YouTube but to do so properly would probably require something like a binaural microphone which given their cost is out of the question for me. The sound is flat, lacking in tonal depth, and puts wind/unwanted background noise right up front. The claims of superior sound localization fall totally flat, the HP is no better than the Sordins or ComTacs in this regard, and those headsets aren't great at sound localization to begin with.

Depending on what exactly the NFC feature allows you to do, the sound quality could likely be improved. Actually, I know it can because strangely the headset actually sounds ok on "dual mode", with the standard impulse noise blocking and ANC on. However, in impulse only mode is where the sound quality falls apart.

I understand a lot of police/Mil. users are excited about the HP as a comms headset, but as a casual/sport/whatever-you-want-to-call-it shooter sound quality is most relevant to me next to noise protection. I don't run or even posses any sort of comm equipment beyond bubble pack radios so the headsets potential as a comms unit is 100% irrelevant to me and will be for most shooters.

Stacked up on top of all that we have the extremely poor manual (happy to post pics if you want to see what I mean) and lack of transparency on the part of Safariland in regards to several pieces of critical info like environmental resistance (waterproofing for example). The headset is supposedly waterproofed to 15 feet but the manual and product page still fail to make any mention of this, that was only seen in an early promo release about the Liberator IV/V.

To hopefully answer Jim Watsons question, the ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) feature produces audible "bumps" of counter noise to combat steady-state sound. I'll admit to not having tested the headset in an appropriate environment to really test the ANC feature. How this feature helps with impulse noise like gunfire I don't know, I'm not a sound engineer. I'm guessing it it would help defeat other sound frequencies not combated effectively by more standard methods, theoretically aiding in upping the NRR for impulse noise. That's my guess anyway, wouldn't take it as gospel.

If you guys have any questions about Sordins, ComTacs, or the Liberator HPs ask away. Happy to help and answer any questions I can. Feel free to request pics or any odd thing you might want to know about any of them. :)

Thanks for the review; appreciate the effort you made to post this here.

How do you feel build quality compares to Sordins/ComTacs? I have a pair of Peltor Comtac IIIs that I am pretty enamored with, but my biggest beef is that the sound is relatively quiet when doubled up with foamies. It's a little better with surefire EP4s but still often hard to hear without mucking with the gain.

[CAKEPWNER]

Thanks for the review; appreciate the effort you made to post this here.

How do you feel build quality compares to Sordins/ComTacs? I have a pair of Peltor Comtac IIIs that I am pretty enamored with, but my biggest beef is that the sound is relatively quiet when doubled up with foamies. It's a little better with surefire EP4s but still often hard to hear without mucking with the gain.


Build quality in terms of materials and assembly is up to par, nothing to really complain about. The foam insert in the earcup is the same one used in Sordins and the seals are in fact interchangeable between Sordins and the Liberator HP. The only real difference between the Sordin seals and the HP seals is the HP seals are the stiffest (out of ComTacs, Sordins, and the HP) and they have an O ring on them. The stiffness is not a complaint and I actually quite like the way the HP seals feel, seem like they would be the hardest wearing. Nothing to really note other than that.

In terms of doubling up with plugs the HPs suffer the same problem the ComTacs and Sordins do: they just don't get loud enough to overcome the plug. I've tried using Surefire EP7's with both cores removed and even that was a middling solution in all headsets. I've been told that the Earasers Musician Plugs serve well for this purpose but for $40 a set have yet to try them out.

Bit of an aside, but on the subject of the O ring on the HP seals I theorize the purpose is to keep water out of the cup when being rained on but they may be trying to block sound that way. There is no O ring on the Sordins or ComTac seals so I'm wondering what the idea is.

[s0nspark]

Has anyone here had any experience with the new Harris & Sons in ears (https://harrisandsons.com/)?

Just wondering how much of the hype I'm hearing is, well, hype...
Ditto! I'm thinking this may be a good purchase for me this year. They look great.


Well, they are more spendy than I was expecting... starting at $1300 up to $3k. The FF-12s at $1900 seem to be the most common choice. Not sure I can justify that kind of expense, regardless of how magical they may be. Maybe when I'm Instagram-famous LOL

This brings me back to the Sordins. I have heard mixed reports on reliability - can anyone comment further? I tend to take good care of my gear and wouldn't be putting my earpro through the wringer but they could see a bit of rain, etc.

[Larry Sellers]

Mine have been great. Gel ear seals and they're about 5 years old now. No issues other than UV damage to the wires on the headset. Sent them to SRS tactical and they rewrapped the wire instead of replacing the wire for 200$. I'm happy with them for sure.
Well, they are more spendy than I was expecting... starting at $1300 up to $3k. The FF-12s at $1900 seem to be the most common choice. Not sure I can justify that kind of expense, regardless of how magical they may be. Maybe when I'm Instagram-famous LOL

This brings me back to the Sordins. I have heard mixed reports on reliability - can anyone comment further? I tend to take good care of my gear and wouldn't be putting my earpro through the wringer but they could see a bit of rain, etc.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Mine have been great. Gel ear seals and they're about 5 years old now. No issues other than UV damage to the wires on the headset. Sent them to SRS tactical and they rewrapped the wire instead of replacing the wire for 200$. I'm happy with them for sure.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I'm w/ Larry, bought my Sord. Pro-X's from Steve @ Triad Tactical in 2008, zero issues since to include several rain outs in classes/matches since, not to mention a metric ass load of sweat from my pointy head.

Added a set of DEHP BTHs in 2013 as backups w/ both sets of earpro using the gel cups, all the while knowing I've got Rusty @ SRS for any service needs.

[El Cid]

My Safariland Liberator HP’s sounds like the mic or something is bouncing inside with each step just walking around the house. If I shake the headset I don’t hear a rattle from the outside. It’s quite maddening and I’m going to contact Safariland to see if there is a fix. I did receive the 123 battery tray though so I feel like I did better than most. Haven’t worn them to the range yet in case they needed to be returned. I don’t notice a significant difference in sound quality between the Liberators and my Sordin ProX’s.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

My Safariland Liberator HP’s sounds like the mic or something is bouncing inside with each step just walking around the house. If I shake the headset I don’t hear a rattle from the outside. It’s quite maddening and I’m going to contact Safariland to see if there is a fix. I did receive the 123 battery tray though so I feel like I did better than most. Haven’t worn them to the range yet in case they needed to be returned. I don’t notice a significant difference in sound quality between the Liberators and my Sordin ProX’s.

Hate to hear about the issue's El C, particularly w/ new earpro but curious if the Lib. battery tray just showed up or did you have to contact Safariland & pry it out of their mitts?

[El Cid]

Hate to hear about the issue's El C, particularly w/ new earpro but curious if the Lib. battery tray just showed up or did you have to contact Safariland & pry it out of their mitts?

The battery tray came with it. I didn’t realize it was an issue until seeing this thread.

[CAKEPWNER]

My Safariland Liberator HP’s sounds like the mic or something is bouncing inside with each step just walking around the house. If I shake the headset I don’t hear a rattle from the outside. It’s quite maddening and I’m going to contact Safariland to see if there is a fix. I did receive the 123 battery tray though so I feel like I did better than most. Haven’t worn them to the range yet in case they needed to be returned. I don’t notice a significant difference in sound quality between the Liberators and my Sordin ProX’s.

I just got out to the range with mine the first time yesterday. Had serious feedback issues the first time I turned them on on the ANC mode while at the range, hadn't done so previously. It now switches back to impulse only mode from dual mode when I subject the headset to some shaking/light bumping. I have no idea why, loose connection maybe? Didn't see anything that would cause that when I opened it up but who knows, I haven't checked since.

I'll be calling Safariland tomorrow to request a return and refund. There are glaring QC issues with this headset and along with the botched launch I have no desire to waste any more of my time with it.

I still do not have the CR123A battery adapter, even though I requested one be sent to me and the CS rep told me it would ship by the end of April.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I received my Peltor Comtac iii Hearing Defenders and I am very happy overall with the purchase. Fit and finish and quality of materials is excellent, convenient battery change ability, extremely comfortable gel seal cups and excellent quality of sound. Real test will be how they perform on firing line full of shooters.

[DAVE_M]

I bought my MSA Supreme Pro-X's middle of last year. Used them on the range a few times, then wore them in an 8 hour class with Frank Proctor. At about the 6th hour of the class, I started getting interference. It sounded like Optimus Prime was having a seizure. I promptly emailed MSA after the class. It should be noted that although they are commonly called MSA Sordin, they are not Sordin ear pro. If you own Sordin's, then they came from Sweden. If you own made in USA MSA Supreme ear protection, you need to call MSA. After speaking with Ida and Maria in Sweden, I was kindly transferred to the US office for MSA. I was given a phone call to verify the serial number on my Pro-X headset and asked to describe the issue. It isn't a common issue, but the rep I spoke with knew exactly what I was walking about. The same noise can be heard if you term them on and put the ears close to each other. I was told that a brand new set would be shipped to me, free of charge, and I will just send the other set back with the provided return label. I have since been using my new set and have zero complaints. Their customer service is top notch and they make a quality product.

Gel Cups are a must.
Supreme Pro-X's are worth it over the Basics and Pro.
Buy an aftermarket headband if you don't wear hats.

[GRV]

I bought my MSA Supreme Pro-X's middle of last year. Used them on the range a few times, then wore them in an 8 hour class with Frank Proctor. At about the 6th hour of the class, I started getting interference. It sounded like Optimus Prime was having a seizure. I promptly emailed MSA after the class. It should be noted that although they are commonly called MSA Sordin, they are not Sordin ear pro. If you own Sordin's, then they came from Sweden. If you own made in USA MSA Supreme ear protection, you need to call MSA. After speaking with Ida and Maria in Sweden, I was kindly transferred to the US office for MSA. I was given a phone call to verify the serial number on my Pro-X headset and asked to describe the issue. It isn't a common issue, but the rep I spoke with knew exactly what I was walking about. The same noise can be heard if you term them on and put the ears close to each other. I was told that a brand new set would be shipped to me, free of charge, and I will just send the other set back with the provided return label. I have since been using my new set and have zero complaints. Their customer service is top notch and they make a quality product.

Gel Cups are a must.
Supreme Pro-X's are worth it over the Basics and Pro.
Buy an aftermarket headband if you don't wear hats.

Are you saying that, in addition to TCI/Safariland, that there are two other different versions of the headphone: an MSA product and a Sordin one? If so, does anyone know if there is a quality difference?

My friend went through at least a pair or two of MSAs trying to get one he could tolerate, whereas my TCIs have noticeably higher audio quality, and in my personal case they had less (i.e. no) drama out of the box.

[DAVE_M]

Are you saying that, in addition to TCI/Safariland, that there are two other different versions of the headphone: an MSA product and a Sordin one? If so, does anyone know if there is a quality difference?

My friend went through at least a pair or two of MSAs trying to get one he could tolerate, whereas my TCIs have noticeably higher audio quality, and in my personal case they had less (i.e. no) drama out of the box.

There are a ton

MSA Supreme Basic
MSA Supreme Pro
MSA Supreme Pro-X
MSA Sordin Supreme Pro
MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-X
TEA HI THREAT
Safariland/TCI Liberator II

And a bunch more

I know that the TEA headsets were made in Sweden, but I believe TCI is made in the USA. They are all quality in my opinion.

[Robinson]

I've been using Peltor ProTac muffs for a while now and I really like them. There are two versions, 21dB NRR and 25dB NRR. The 21dB model is much lower profile and for most folks would be a good choice at least for outdoor use. I use the 25dB model for most shooting (over plugs when indoors) but keep a 21dB set next to each of my house guns.

They offer the ProTac in black or the ProTac Hunter in green for a few bucks more. They can be had in the $55-$65 range without gel cups. I have the optional gel cups and highly recommend them as they are much more comfortable and provide a great seal around the ear.

[GRV]

There are a ton

MSA Supreme Basic
MSA Supreme Pro
MSA Supreme Pro-X
MSA Sordin Supreme Pro
MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-X
TEA HI THREAT
Safariland/TCI Liberator II

And a bunch more

I know that the TEA headsets were made in Sweden, but I believe TCI is made in the USA. They are all quality in my opinion.

Sorry, should have been more clear, I was aware of the various MSA versions and third party variants. I meant are there more than one company/supply-chain producing a similar product that is advertised with the name "Sordin"? (Ignoring the TCI/Safariland versions.)

Following your examples, do you have reason to believe "MSA" and "MSA Sordin" are produced by different companies in different countries? Alternatively, is there a non-MSA "Sordin" set of versions produced in Sweden (that isn't obviously distinct like the TEA)?

[DAVE_M]

Sorry, should have been more clear, I was aware of the various MSA versions and third party variants. I meant are there more than one company/supply-chain producing a similar product that is advertised with the name "Sordin"? (Ignoring the TCI/Safariland versions.)

Following your examples, do you have reason to believe "MSA" and "MSA Sordin" are produced by different companies in different countries? Alternatively, is there a non-MSA "Sordin" set of versions produced in Sweden (that isn't obviously distinct like the TEA)?

No.

You have MSA (USA) and MSA Sordin (Sweden). There is no non-MSA Sordin.

[RJ]

Has anyone here had any experience with the new Harris & Sons in ears (https://harrisandsons.com/)?

Just wondering how much of the hype I'm hearing is, well, hype...

I’m back checking this thread in search of an in ear option for outdoor ear pro and noticed this post.

Does anyone have any real world experience with them?

How about other brands/types?

I’m very happy with my Sordins but here in FL the ear cups can get a bit hot and sweaty.

[BJXDS]

I’m back checking this thread in search of an in ear option for outdoor ear pro and noticed this post.

Does anyone have any real world experience with them?

How about other brands/types?

I’m very happy with my Sordins but here in FL the ear cups can get a bit hot and sweaty.

Check out the SoundGear products. I have a BTE with custom molds that have worked pretty well

[RJ]

Check out the SoundGear products. I have a BTE with custom molds that have worked pretty well

Thanks, I went through the JBL web site; any chance you could post a link to what you are using?

I looked at some other options and I’m not able to afford the ones in the four figure range. Looking for something less than $500 and preferably around $250.

I almost would settle for simple in-ear mouldable plugs, as the application I’m using them for are USPSA stages and to be honest most times I’d rather not hear any of the squad chit chat behind me anyway.

[Nephrology]

I received my Peltor Comtac iii Hearing Defenders and I am very happy overall with the purchase. Fit and finish and quality of materials is excellent, convenient battery change ability, extremely comfortable gel seal cups and excellent quality of sound. Real test will be how they perform on firing line full of shooters.

I've had those for a couple years now and they're amazing.

On the same topic, I picked up a pair of Walker's Game Ear Razor Slim (https://www.amazon.com/Walkers-Game-Ear-Amplification-Suppression/dp/B01BXVPCHK) ear pro when they were an amazon daily deal at $25 shipped. So far they seem as good if not slightly better than my old howard leights - the stock cups are definitely better. Otherwise comparable or maybe slightly better sound quality. I'm presuming it cuts the mic at a certain dB threshold like the HLs did. Definitely not what I'll be wearing most of the time but they'll make for a good loaner pair.

[BJXDS]

Thanks, I went through the JBL web site; any chance you could post a link to what you are using?

I looked at some other options and I’m not able to afford the ones in the four figure range. Looking for something less than $500 and preferably around $250.

I almost would settle for simple in-ear mouldable plugs, as the application I’m using them for are USPSA stages and to be honest most times I’d rather not hear any of the squad chit chat behind me anyway.

https://www.soundgearhearing.com/

I use the behind the ear model

[DMF13]

It's interesting this thread got revived now. I was just issued a set of Peltor Tactical 100 earpro at work. (Which can be had for $50 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Peltor-Tactical-Electronic-Protector-Protection/dp/B00NAG4WX2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1537137255&sr=8-3&keywords=Peltor+Tactical+100)

Earlier in the thread I posted this: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22470-Electronic-ear-protection-current-state-of-groupthink&p=604789&highlight=noise#post604789

Now I have numbers to back up what was said earlier, as Peltor includes the data on noise reduction at various frequencies with the set.

Here are the number for the Peltor Tactical 100:

Test Freq (Hz) Mean Attenuation (dB) Standard Deviation
125 -- 17.2 -- 3.5
250 -- 16.7 -- 1.9
500 -- 25.9 -- 2.7
1000 -- 31.7 -- 2.5
2000 -- 33.0 -- 2.6
3150 -- 39.8 -- 2.8
4000 -- 43.1 -- 2.9
6300 -- 43.7 -- 2.4
8000 -- 41.8 -- 2.2


Here are the numbers for the MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-X, as stated in the blog post linked in the post I quoted earlier in the thread:
30398

So, now we have numbers that show when buying the super low profile ear pro, like the MSA Sordins, which were designed for comms and use with a helmet, you're making a big sacrifice in protection.

I wish I had the data for the Peltor Tactical 300 and 500, because I suspect the protection is a whole lot better, considering their average NRRs are 24 and 26 respectively.

Also, the assertion in that linked/quoted blog that, "(s)ome ear-pro makers put noise-reduction labels on their products by picking the frequency range with the greatest reduction, then calling that the noise-reduction rating," is absolutely untrue. Any manufacturer who wants to market their products with the standard labeling such as:
30399
Cannot simply pull a number from the best performing frequency range. They must follow the EPA regulations for calculating the noise reduction rating (NRR).

If you have the need to get earpro that fits under a helmet, and are part of tactical team needing comms while wearing said helmet, all during tactical operations, then the ultra low profile MSA Sordins are appropriate. However, if you trying to protect your hearing while shooting on the range, there are much better options, and often at a much lower price.

[RJ]

https://www.soundgearhearing.com/

I use the behind the ear model

Thanks a bunch! I was totally looking in the wrong place.

How do you feel they compare shooting to an ear cup design? Is it fairly easy to say turn the amplification ‘off’ so that you don’t hear anything electronically?

[BJXDS]

Thanks a bunch! I was totally looking in the wrong place.

How do you feel they compare shooting to an ear cup design? Is it fairly easy to say turn the amplification ‘off’ so that you don’t hear anything electronically?


I usually double up when shooting at the range. In a class environment or when shooting with others and communication is required I double up and the electronic models really help.

When shooting rifles/shotguns I could not get a good cheek weld with the larger models, they just never stayed on properly. So my solution was to use in the ear in conjunction with over the ear, smaller ones with rifles/shotguns and larger ones with pistols. This probably sounds counter intuitive but if I wasn't getting a good seal when shooting rifles/shotguns, then it defeated the purpose.

I was looking for something I could use when hunting and I decided on the SoundGear BTE option. I do use them as well when shooting clays. The volume/amplification is adjustable with four settings to optimize the environment you are in; ie a mode when using the phone... and on on/off switch. I just usually select one mode and and amplification setting and leave them in that mode. They use the hearing aid style battery which starts to discharge after the little orange sticky is removed but will last all day.

I highly recommend going to an audiologist for an evaluation, the results may be surprising, and getting a custom mold for all in ear options. I do have quite a bit of money invested in hearing pro options, but I have the range of options I feel best protects my hearing. Also check with them and your insurance as some of the custom options of in ear may qualify as hearing aid devices and my be covered under insurance. Once your ears start ringing, they will never stop, hearing loss is irreversible, but there are a multitude of options to help protect as much as is possible.

AS a side note, I use hearing pro for all shooting, riding motorcycles,lawn tractors, chain saws, circular saws..... and for the wife, when needed.

I hope this helps

[Robinson]

I use a product similar to the SoundGear devices, the difference being mine are fully programmable which helps with my hearing loss. I don't wear them when shooting at the range -- I double up with plugs and muffs for that. I do wear them often when carrying a gun, and also at home in the evenings for watching TV or coversation. I do okay without hearing aids, but they help in certain situations.

The ones I have are made by SportEAR (aka AXIL) and are the custom molded in-the-ear type. The main problems I have with them are that they make my ears feel occluded -- typical for in-the-ear types -- and using them too much aggravates my tinnitus. I can only wear them for a few hours at a time at most without it making the ringing in my ears worse. But I'm glad I have them.

I am tempted to try some of the SoundGear BTE devices as a lower cost option for some situations.

[NuJudge]

I bought a set of Sport Ear Ghost Stryke electronic plugs about 2 years ago at a pistol school. I have been completely satisfied with them using them on indoor pistol ranges, and outdoors with rifle, pistol or shotgun. There are two different types of plug for putting in your ear canal that attach to the electronics package, a more durable translucent one (NRR roughly 20), and a black foam one (NRR better than 30). I wore them the whole of Camp Perry CMP week last year, and never felt the need of muffs over them. When pheasant hunting, I can hear the bird take off and have a much better sense where it is, even if that is behind me. When a shot is fired, they don't completely cut out the sound, just dramatically reduce it. The set I have use small hearing aid batteries and they last better than a week in daily use. I bought a similar set of plugs from Sport Ear that recharge on a USB early this year.

[DMF13]

So, my google-fu was strong last night, and I found the data for the Peltor Tactical 300 and 500: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1CtPwTZWyS.pdf

For the 300:
Test Freq (Hz) Mean Attenuation (dB) Standard Deviation
125 -- 16.7 -- 3.0
250 -- 21.0 -- 2.5
500 -- 30.7 -- 2.6
1000 -- 39.6 -- 2.8
2000 -- 36.0 -- 2.6
3150 -- 38.7 -- 3.2
4000 -- 40.7 -- 2.9
6300 -- 40.0 -- 2.2
8000 -- 39.8 -- 2.8

For the 500:
Test Freq (Hz) Mean Attenuation (dB) Standard Deviation
125 -- 19.2 -- 3.4
250 -- 22.2 -- 2.4
500 -- 30.0 -- 2.6
1000 -- 36.5 -- 2.9
2000 -- 36.8 -- 2.9
3150 -- 38.5 -- 3.3
4000 -- 42.6 -- 3.2
6300 -- 42.8 -- 3.4
8000 -- 42.8 -- 3.1


Again, much better performance than the very low profile sets setup for comms, and use with a helmet.

I think it's pretty clear, the use of very low profile ear pro, sacrifices hearing protection, for features that are not used by not engaged in tactical operations with a helmet.

[JohnO]

MSA Sordin! Putin approved.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/VAk9R01ZvBCBHoNNgFu2IA--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2g9NjAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/0082b7d5cdf5095196b755a35a73a94949251545.jpg

[Default.mp3]

So, I had purchased a set of Liberator HPs with the universal attachment kit back in December. I promptly broke one of the helmet mounts (there were no instructions included for them), and noticed the left side cutting out at times. I sent them back in for repair in January, where TCI held on to them for over a month; unfortunately, they did not reach out to me about the repair after the initial assessment (apparently there was a broken wire somewhere), as there was a miscommunication between the repair team and CS. Lucy over at TCI did have my stuff shipped overnight when it was finished, though, to try and get my HPs back to me ASAP.

It turns out that they were holding on to my HPs because they were putting in new hardware and software. Playing with the new ones today, the audio is much better than previously; I was rather disappointed by the audio quality when I initially received them. Currently, the audio is actually quite good in the normal mode (audio amplification without noise cancelling), sounds quite natural; it's not quite as loud as my MSA Sordin Supreme Pro X, but there's also no white noise like the MSAs have (although my MSAs are almost a decade old), and doesn't sound as flat overall. With noise cancelling and audio amplification, it's definitely less natural, and rather flat, more so than the MSAs, though the MSAs still have the issue of white noise.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

So, I had purchased a set of Liberator HPs with the universal attachment kit back in December. I promptly broke one of the helmet mounts (there were no instructions included for them), and noticed the left side cutting out at times. I sent them back in for repair in January, where TCI held on to them for over a month; unfortunately, they did not reach out to me about the repair after the initial assessment (apparently there was a broken wire somewhere), as there was a miscommunication between the repair team and CS. Lucy over at TCI did have my stuff shipped overnight when it was finished, though, to try and get my HPs back to me ASAP.

It turns out that they were holding on to my HPs because they were putting in new hardware and software. Playing with the new ones today, the audio is much better than previously; I was rather disappointed by the audio quality when I initially received them. Currently, the audio is actually quite good in the normal mode (audio amplification without noise cancelling), sounds quite natural; it's not quite as loud as my MSA Sordin Supreme Pro X, but there's also no white noise like the MSAs have (although my MSAs are almost a decade old), and doesn't sound as flat overall. With noise cancelling and audio amplification, it's definitely less natural, and rather flat, more so than the MSAs, though the MSAs still have the issue of white noise.

Thx for the Lib HP update DeFault, haven't had an issue w/ mine that I bought mid 2018.

Lucy also hooked me up nicely as mine were an early pair & she got me a 123 batt. tray as mine didn't ship w/ one.

I remember her & Brad @ TCI before Safariland gobbled them up when I bought my DEHPs from them, good people no doubt.

[kobuksonhwacha]

After misplacing my Howard Leights with Noisefighters gel cups I sprung for a set of AKT1 Sport muffs after seeing Paul Sharp mention them on Instagram. Just wore them through a 2 day Practical Fundamentals class with Bruce Gray's OpSpec company and they performed excellently, with no discomfort or pinching eyepro over both 8 hour days. The foam cups sealed just as well as gel and were almost inperceptible; if I had one complaint it would be that the sound amplification was a bit low on volume but this may have been a battery issue.

[Default.mp3]

We will be able to integrate the new updates after 3/11. The same RMA process would applyIn reference to the updates to the Liberator HPs if you have an older model or hope to directly buy one with the updates. Feel free to contact her at lucy.medine@safariland.com for this.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

In reference to the updates to the Liberator HPs if you have an older model or hope to directly buy one with the updates. Feel free to contact her at lucy.medine@safariland.com for this.

Oh hells yes default, thx much for that info.

[Det1397]

Instead of starting a brand new thread on this, I figured I'd post here. Recently my earpro went south. I took them apart and see that a battery must have leaked, pretty much trashing the battery compartment.
So now I have a Supreme Pro-X that works as standard non-electronic earpro...
A Google search leads me to SRS Tactical in Florida. www.srstactical.com I see they do repairs on MSA Sordin products. I sent my set off to them with the printable work order. A week later I get a personal call from the shop telling me the unit is repaired and GTG! Cost to me was a reasonable $90 including USPS Priority mail. Good as new.
A big shout-out to SRS Tactical and their crew (including Lynwood!)

[scjbash]

Duracell by chance?

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Instead of starting a brand new thread on this, I figured I'd post here. Recently my earpro went south. I took them apart and see that a battery must have leaked, pretty much trashing the battery compartment.
So now I have a Supreme Pro-X that works as standard non-electronic earpro...
A Google search leads me to SRS Tactical in Florida. www.srstactical.com I see they do repairs on MSA Sordin products. I sent my set off to them with the printable work order. A week later I get a personal call from the shop telling me the unit is repaired and GTG! Cost to me was a reasonable $90 including USPS Priority mail. Good as new.
A big shout-out to SRS Tactical and their crew (including Lynwood!)

No doubt Rusty & co. @ SRS is the shop where my 11yr. old Pro-X's would go if needed, seems like Pat (RIP amigo) suggested them yrs. ago on LF or @ a class.

[JWinTN]

Good gravy, I haven't had such a case of analysis paralysis in a long time. My Sordins are going south—the wire insulation has disintegrated, I'm starting to get static in the right ear, and one of the gel cups has sprung a leak.

I'm currently trying to decide between these: Another pair of Pro X, some configuration of Comtac III, the Pro Ears Pro Tac Slim Gold, or the Liberator HP.

I'm using them on the practice range as well as during competition and the occasional class.

I like the Sordins, but it seems like there could be better protection.

I'm drawn to the Pro Ears for the higher NRR, but they seem somewhat, I guess, old fashioned, and I don't know anyone with any experience with them. I know a lot of comp pros use them, but I would to if someone gave them to me. I'm also not sure about the leather cups during long periods in hot weather and high humidity.

The Comtacs seem to have a good following, but between them and the Sordins, it seems like the Sordins are the way to go for warranty and product support.

I like the idea of the Liberators, but they have some pretty mixed reviews, but if they have somehow worked out the bugs, I think that might be the way I would go, there just doesn't seem to be a lot of current user feedback that I can find.

I even made a slight detour on a recent trip to go to Palmetto State Armory to try to get hands on with some of these models but they didn't have a one. Can any of y'all astute product users out there help me out with this agonizing decision to find the perfect ear pro? Should I just get another pair of Sordins, or should I act my age a shooting station and go with the Pro Ears? Will the Liberators make my range buddies jealous? In all seriousness, any feedback you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

[RJ]

JWinTN. Be an idea to call Robert at SRS tactical and see what he would charge to recondition your Sordins.

He was very supportive of our p-f Sordin Group Buy. Iirc the Pro X have a five year warranty.

www.srstactical.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JWinTN]

JWinTN. Be an idea to call Robert at SRS tactical and see what he would charge to recondition your Sordins.

He was very supportive of our p-f Sordin Group Buy. Iirc the Pro X have a five year warranty.

www.srstactical.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought about that, but these things are well out of warranty. I worry that the cost of repair would likely just put me well on the way to a fresh new pair. I figure I will pick up something new and then eventually get the old ones rebuilt for a backup/loaner pair. I did try to call SRS but didn't get an answer, but I'll try it again and see where I get.

[RJ]

I thought about that, but these things are well out of warranty. I worry that the cost of repair would likely just put me well on the way to a fresh new pair. I figure I will pick up something new and then eventually get the old ones rebuilt for a backup/loaner pair. I did try to call SRS but didn't get an answer, but I'll try it again and see where I get.

I emailed Robert. I’ll pm you the email address of the person he indicated to follow up with by PM if you are interested.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JWinTN]

I emailed Robert. I’ll pm you the email address of the person he indicated to follow up with by PM if you are interested.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Absolutely, and I appreciate the help.

[RJ]

Absolutely, and I appreciate the help.

No problem. PM sent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RJ]

I'm back on the hunt for an affordable in-ear option.

I was sweating bullets at the match on Sunday and realized part of my problem was the MSA Sordins muff covering my ears.

I don't really have like $500 to blow on custom fitted electronic Gucci ear pro, so has anyone experience with these low end heat and shape at home "Decibullz"?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WIXL4UM/ref=twister_B01MTF2I54?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

I can afford $26. :)

[CalAlumnus]

I've read through much of this thread, and there's a lot of useful information. Three main conclusions include:


Low NRR ratings may be deceptive, since sound reduction at frequencies caused by firearms is better than the overall rating would suggest.
You do sacrifice some sound suppression by choosing a low-profile option (like the Sordin) over a bulkier option.
Seal quality is a major factor, with gel ear pads making a significant difference.


I'm looking for the best option for pistol-only use. My focus is on noise reduction, followed by audio quality for following range commands. Bluetooth or auxiliary audio isn't a concern. I won't be using them under a helmet or with a long gun, so size isn't an issue.

I'll be replacing any non-gel ear pads with Noisefighters.

Given my priorities, it looks like these are my options. The XCEL and Peltor 300 seem to perform quite well at the price point. Can anyone make a recommendation--or suggest something else?

Walkers XCEL 100 ($60)
NRR: 26
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 37.7
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 36.1 (https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/79/7986d66a-fff4-4dd5-9fd3-cfedd4741484.pdf)

Howard Leight Impact Pro ($80)
NRR: 30
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 37.1
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 33.8 (http://www.honeywellsafety.com/Supplementary/Documents_and_Downloads/Secured/4294984986/1033.aspx)

Peltor Sport Tactical 300 ($80)
NRR: 24
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 39.6
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 36 (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1CtPwTZWyS.pdf)

Peltor Sport Tactical 500 ($150)
NRR: 26
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 36.5
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 36.8 (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1CtPwTZWyS.pdf)

Peltor Tactical Pro ($200)
NRR: 26
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 37.7
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 34.4 (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1eikbinLnL.pdf)

[Sig_Fiend]

I've found the Peltor Tactical Sport (https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/Peltor-Sport-Tactical-Sport-Hearing-Protector/?N=5002385+3293173717&rt=rud) (not to be confused with the Sport Tactical, ridiculous, I know) to be excellent for the sub $200 range. You can find them around $100-120 usually.

They're NRR 20. I usually combine this with Surefire Sonic Defenders earplugs with the ports open, which provides a good balance of protection and sound amplification.

Sound quality is excellent, and quite a bit better than most of the other $50-150 electronic options I've tried. I've had a couple sets, and this last pair has lasted ~9-10yrs.

[Default.mp3]

I've read through much of this thread, and there's a lot of useful information. Three main conclusions include:


Low NRR ratings may be deceptive, since sound reduction at frequencies caused by firearms is better than the overall rating would suggest.
You do sacrifice some sound suppression by choosing a low-profile option (like the Sordin) over a bulkier option.
Seal quality is a major factor, with gel ear pads making a significant difference.


I'm looking for the best option for pistol-only use. My focus is on noise reduction, followed by audio quality for following range commands. Bluetooth or auxiliary audio isn't a concern. I won't be using them under a helmet or with a long gun, so size isn't an issue.

I'll be replacing any non-gel ear pads with Noisefighters.

Given my priorities, it looks like these are my options. The XCEL and Peltor 300 seem to perform quite well at the price point. Can anyone make a recommendation--or suggest something else?

Walkers XCEL 100 ($60)
NRR: 26
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 37.7
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 36.1 (https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/79/7986d66a-fff4-4dd5-9fd3-cfedd4741484.pdf)

Howard Leight Impact Pro ($80)
NRR: 30
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 37.1
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 33.8 (http://www.honeywellsafety.com/Supplementary/Documents_and_Downloads/Secured/4294984986/1033.aspx)

Peltor Sport Tactical 300 ($80)
NRR: 24
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 39.6
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 36 (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1CtPwTZWyS.pdf)

Peltor Sport Tactical 500 ($150)
NRR: 26
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 36.5
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 36.8 (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1CtPwTZWyS.pdf)

Peltor Tactical Pro ($200)
NRR: 26
Attenuation at 1000Hz: 37.7
Attenuation at 2000Hz: 34.4 (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1eikbinLnL.pdf)For pistol only, I would also consider something in-ear, e.g., the 3M TEP-100 or the Otto NoizeBarrier Micro, if you can adapt your ears to those.

[CalAlumnus]

I've found the Peltor Tactical Sport (https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/Peltor-Sport-Tactical-Sport-Hearing-Protector/?N=5002385+3293173717&rt=rud) (not to be confused with the Sport Tactical, ridiculous, I know) to be excellent for the sub $200 range.

Wow, that naming convention is ridiculous. Looks like it’s actually the “Peltor Sport Tactical Sport.”

There’s also the Peltor Sport Tactical 300/500, and the Peltor TacticalPro.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

For pistol only, I would also consider something in-ear, e.g., the 3M TEP-100 or the Otto NoizeBarrier Micro, if you can adapt your ears to those.

Default mind sharing some *quality* in-ear pro that would be good around 5.56 & SGs, you know 3G stuff & some w/ comps. Been using Sord Pro-X’s since Pat suggested them in 2008 & then he got me into TCI DHEPs.

As an RO I don’t mind dropping some coin & as Pat was fond of saying, buy once cry once.

[Default.mp3]

Default mind sharing some *quality* in-ear pro that would be good around 5.56 & SGs, you know 3G stuff & some w/ comps. Been using Sord Pro-X’s since Pat suggested them in 2008 & then he got me into TCI DHEPs.

As an RO I don’t mind dropping some coin & as Pat was fond of saying, buy once cry once.I am of the opinion that with rifles, especially indoors, one wants to double up. I am personally going to upgrade to the Ops Core AMP system with the NFMI plugs in the next couple of months (currently using SureFire EPs paired with Safariland HPs, which I haven't been as disappointed with as some folks have been, but have not lived up to the hype for me, either); I no hands-on experience, but I know Steve Fisher has praised it before, saying that there's nothing else like it, and a buddy of mine has tried it before, and said it was amazing (he typically uses ComTac IIIs).