New Pistol Red Dot

[Grey]

Just wanted to share this with the group. No affiliation, just showed up on a blog I read.

http://www.shieldpsd.com/shop-2/rms-reflex-mini-sight-4moa-shield-glock-mos-plate-bundle-pre-order

Hope it is alright to share a link.

Thoughts? Moving in the right direction for red dot pistols?

[Default.mp3]

Just wanted to share this with the group. No affiliation, just showed up on a blog I read.

http://www.shieldpsd.com/shop-2/rms-reflex-mini-sight-4moa-shield-glock-mos-plate-bundle-pre-order

Hope it is alright to share a link.

Thoughts? Moving in the right direction for red dot pistols?I personally don't like the auto-adjust, due to having a WML mounted at all times on my pistols. Beyond that, the specs are missing what level of water resistance it has. The price isn't bad, with the standalone site retailing for ~360 USD, assuming it's a quality optic, but it does put it in a rather awkward price point, being unproven yet more expensive than your Vortex Venoms, Burris FastFires, or other budget mini-RDSes.

But really, we'll have to see just how well it performs in the real world, on a reciprocating slide, to make any real judgement on the quality of the Shield RMS. If it dies in two hundred rounds, then, well, the spec sheet doesn't really much.

[Gray222]

based in UK?

[Grey]

based in UK?
Seems that way based on the pricing in pounds

[Gray222]

Seems that way based on the pricing in pounds

Pass.

[Default.mp3]

based in UK?Yes. misanthropist has done a favorable review on their CQS optic for his magazine, and has spoken on their lack of market penetration in North America, despite being an MoD issued optic in the UK armed forces.

They're also the manufacturer of the JP JPoint, if I'm not mistaken, which is listed on Shield's site as being the Shield Mini Sight.

[Gray222]

Yes. misanthropist has done a favorable review on their CQS optic for his magazine, and has spoken on their lack of market penetration in North America, despite being an MoD issued optic in the UK armed forces.

I rather support US-based operations...

[Dropkick]

Being able to run normal height sights is pretty cool. I hope this starts a trend.

[BillSWPA]

I personally don't like the auto-adjust, due to having a WML mounted at all times on my pistols. Beyond that, the specs are missing what level of water resistance it has. The price isn't bad, with the standalone site retailing for ~360 USD, assuming it's a quality optic, but it does put it in a rather awkward price point, being unproven yet more expensive than your Vortex Venoms, Burris FastFires, or other budget mini-RDSes.

But really, we'll have to see just how well it performs in the real world, on a reciprocating slide, to make any real judgement on the quality of the Shield RMS. If it dies in two hundred rounds, then, well, the spec sheet doesn't really much.

I understand and agree with the point about price and preferring products with a track record. However, not knowing anything about this red dot, I suggest that it is easier to penetrate a market from the top down than from the bottom up. If it turns out to be a quality product, and they get a few sales and positive reviews, that will put them on solid ground. If quality were sacrificed to hit a lower, more attractive price point, they might never be able to get past the resulting reputation.

[breakingtime91]

I rather support US-based operations...

so trijicon?

[Gray222]

so trijicon?

I have an RMR...there are a few others that are US based (pay US taxes and employ US citizens) that I'll take a look at as well.

[ADK]

For all those awaiting the (eventual?) Aimpoint sealed mrds, might this actually be it, today? http://www.shieldpsd.com/shop-2/sis-switchable-interface-sight-center-dot Apparently it's the updated, auto adjust + manual brightness version of the CQS/CQB that was chosen by the British military over the Aimpoint micro due to superior ruggedness. It's basically a well sealed version of the Sms, sold in the US as the jpoint. It's apparently provided great service, and is smaller and thinner and lighter than the t1. And shield sells an aimpoint micro adapter plate, allowing the sis to be mounted to any aimpoint micro mount, like the ATOM perhaps? Would be curious to get impressions of the sis on a pistol slide from the experienced mrds users here.

[RevolverRob]

The reason to reject this sight has nothing to do with it not being a U.S. based business and everything to do with it not having a shielded emitter and sealed optics. It will suffer the exact same problems that Deltapoints and RMRs suffer in wet climates, dot washout. Also, I just don't care for RMR reticles. Having finally shot enough of the various MRDSes, I'm pretty particularly sold on the Amber Triangle in the Deltapoint as the best reticle out there currently. But the optic itself is still a no-go in wet/humid climates.

[Paul D]

They sell this line at Brownells (http://www.brownells.com/manufacturers/SHIELD%20SIGHTS%20LTDxzzx/index.htm). I think Misanthropist did a review of these sights for the magazine he writes for. If it is a good review, I will buy 'n try. Don't know what Glock MOS plate it uses though.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I did review these...I still have one on a 34 MOS.

I have yet to see an issue in wet climates (and Vancouver, where I live, is essentially Seattle with more rain and less football) but I also haven't spent a ton of time with it in heavy rain.

I will say that I have seen aimpoints become completely unusable in the rain here simply on account of condensation so I do have some experience running guns in the wet. I think that would happen long before the electronics would become an issue, despite having been repeatedly assured that this never happens.

The one on my MOS is basically an Eotech 65/1 reticle and lending it to non-shooters is genuinely disturbing. "Oh, the bullet goes on the dot. Wow, every time! And it's in the middle of the big circle. Oh, this is so easy."

Anyway I would assume that the Shield optics also have deficiencies, and I am not in the business recommending anything without reservation. But the company is solid and I have beaten the tar out of their stuff and it works well. Something else may work better and I can't really comment on that because I've never used any other mini red dots beyond a quick goof-around.

The main thing for me is that it's a killer reticle on a sight that's been 100% reliable for me from a company I trust.

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[Maple Syrup Actual]

Oh: I did find that really bright targets washed out the reticle when I was in a low light area. They do have a backup rear notch so I shift to that when shooting white stuff while in the dark. I feel like there's a really un-pc #BLM joke in here somewhere but I am not finishing that thought in print.

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[ADK]

Thanks misanthropist, great looking mag you've got up there.

If I searched correctly, it looks like you've reviewed the rms on the Glock mos, and the cqs on a rifle (and under a jeep, etc).

I was wondering about the viability of the sis on a handgun. It looks like it might be able to fit on the Glock mos, maybe barely, if shield makes a custom plate like they did for the rms/sms that could accept the bottom-up screws I believe the sis uses. The sis is advertised as being slightly more compact and lighter than the cqs. Based on your experience with the cqs, do you think an sis on the mos is a possibility? Base length would be the limiting factor in the mos' 2-inch-long cutout.

Based on your testing, I assume you'd agree that the sis would be way more durable and less subject to the elements than the rms. And it offers manual adjustment to eliminate the white wall issue, and you can choose reticles within the sight. Drawbacks of course would be size, weight and need for tall irons for cowitnessing.

Thanks for your input! (Wow that was a lot of acronyms!)

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Okay, look. It's saturday, 2130 local time, and anything I say should be taken with some himalayan pink salt off the rim of a mason jar filled with tequila, cointreau, and lime juice. I'll do my best here but no promises. It's been about half an hour since my last post and I've been lying in a sauna consuming the above-mentioned recipe since about 1900.



1) Thanks! you'd think any rag that put me in charge of the writing would be pretty messed up but these guys are all right.

2) I actually hadn't heard about the SIS before right now and I'm way too far gone to do any rational analysis of the technical improvement it may represent over the CQS/CQB.

3) Oh wait, yes I had. I just forgot and didn't recognize the acronym.

4) I believe the SIS has the same outer dimensions as the CQS and I have a couple of those so I'll check tomorrow if that would fit on a MOS.

5) I have some suppressor sights on a G19...I'll see if they'd be adequate to work with an SIS.

6) Yeah, they're plenty tough. You won't survive anything that kills an SIS.

[Paul D]

Okay, look. It's saturday, 2130 local time, and anything I say should be taken with some himalayan pink salt off the rim of a mason jar filled with tequila, cointreau, and lime juice. I'll do my best here but no promises. It's been about half an hour since my last post and I've been lying in a sauna consuming the above-mentioned recipe since about 1900.



1) Thanks! you'd think any rag that put me in charge of the writing would be pretty messed up but these guys are all right.

2) I actually hadn't heard about the SIS before right now and I'm way too far gone to do any rational analysis of the technical improvement it may represent over the CQS/CQB.

3) Oh wait, yes I had. I just forgot and didn't recognize the acronym.

4) I believe the SIS has the same outer dimensions as the CQS and I have a couple of those so I'll check tomorrow if that would fit on a MOS.

5) I have some suppressor sights on a G19...I'll see if they'd be adequate to work with an SIS.

6) Yeah, they're plenty tough. You won't survive anything that kills an SIS.

The CQS looks pretty big and seems more at home on a long gun. Do you have a picture of it on your Glock 34 MOS? Which plate does it use?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Sorry for any confusion but I only have the CQS on long guns. I have a Mini on a MOS. I'll have to check whether something CQS-sized could fit on a MOS.

[ADK]

Yknow now that I think about it, it couldn't possibly work with the mos, for the exact reason unity tactical had to put their securing screw on the side of the atom rather than the top: No way to install a mounting plate where the screws come in from opposite sides with no through holes in either object being joined (sight and slide). On the atom, the sis window would sit so high that buis would be extremely tall and snaggy. Something like an rcs balor mount could work but again the window would be even higher than a T1 configured similarly. Probably not practical. Oh well, guess the wait continues for the Aimpoint sealed mrds small enough for practical concealed carry use on a pistol.

[OnionsAndDragons]

The SIS looks almost exactly like what I want; sealed emitter, adjustable, even a neato reticle.

If there is a reasonable way to fit it in a pistol, and the Aimpoint doesn't drop sometime in the next 6mos, I might investigate this.

Misanthropist, would you be able to provide some pics of the way your CQS attaches at some less inebriated moment?

I'd like to forward them off to Mark and see if he might be able to do anything with it and an ATOM milled slide...


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[nalesq]

This looks interesting. I am looking for a smallish RDS optic to mount on a shotgun, and until seeing this have been considering either an Aimpoint micro or a Trijicon RMR. Does anyone make a QD mount for the Shield SIS model?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

The SIS looks almost exactly like what I want; sealed emitter, adjustable, even a neato reticle.

If there is a reasonable way to fit it in a pistol, and the Aimpoint doesn't drop sometime in the next 6mos, I might investigate this.

Misanthropist, would you be able to provide some pics of the way your CQS attaches at some less inebriated moment?

I'd like to forward them off to Mark and see if he might be able to do anything with it and an ATOM milled slide...


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Honestly, pretty much an aimpoint micro mount. 4 screws hold it onto a pretty run-of-the-mill (I guess literally) clamp.

http://imgur.com/SJsHIpc.jpg

http://imgur.com/ZiMxBcN.jpg

Yes, I intentionally ensured the pictures would be FABULOUS.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

No wait:

only two screws hold the sight to the base. The base is about 1.280" wide, and the holes are centered about 0.162" in from the outer edge. They're about 0.850" back from the front of the body, which is 1.935" long overall.

Mine's all mounted up but I have spare spacers that I just measured. If you want more dimensions just let me know. I have the calipers and spacers out so it's no trouble.

Also I have not spent the day drinking margaritas.

Sunday is martinis.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161003/6483012132086db42b0bc60e74295b3d.jpg

[OnionsAndDragons]

That was more than expected and super-awesome of you, sir!

Thank you very much.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

No worries! Glad to help.

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[98z28]

I've been out of the red dot on a handgun game for a while because of the exposed emitter. It sounds like you all are saying this CQS, and by extension the SIS, would not mount on an ATOM Glock slide. Have we confirmed that?

[ADK]

I believe you can mount it on an aimpoint atom plate right now, because shield sells an aimpoint mount adapter. So I think you can get an atom slide or slide cut, an aimpoint micro atom plate, a shield aimpoint mount adapter, and thereby put the sis on a glock slide. However, considering how much bulk there is beneath the window of the sis compared to a simple aimpoint micro tube, plus the slight added height of the adapter plate, i believe the sis window would sit too high to allow cowitnessing with the standard atom backup iron sights. Buis would have to be comically tall to reach the sis window. Using the shield adapter plate, you could also use the standard aimpoint micro glock rear sight dovetail mount, but that would be higher and less secure with no buis.

What i believe is not possible is for the sis in its current form to work with the glock mos.

What we need is an sis with a lower base and top-down rather than bottom-up screws. This would allow simpler mounting on glock mos and other interfaces as well as custom milled slides. The mos plate shield has made for the rms appears to be a great idea, mounting the rms lower and more securely than the glock mos plate.

I spoke with shield on the phone last week and suggested they pursue ways to mount the sis on pistol slides, whether via redesign or some ingenious mounting solution i haven't considered. They said they thought the sis was too big and heavy and they really intend the rms to fulfill that role. I pointed out that many folks including military want a closed emitter system for reliability on a pistol, and are currently using aimpoint micros which are heavier and longer. They said they'd consider it.

I think they'll need a lot more calls to motivate this line of development.

[octagon]

I ran across this today and it looks like it fits here better than the red dot on a handgun thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY5QhliOkBQ

I like that it rides low enough to use standard height iron sights and the clear glass.

[Grey]

I ran across this today and it looks like it fits here better than the red dot on a handgun thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY5QhliOkBQ

I like that it rides low enough to use standard height iron sights and the clear glass.

My lord that glass is clear...

[JCS]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/adcf6a7407869f8f2aaa72dbf52b46a3.png


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[Maple Syrup Actual]

I have already promised other people that I would lobby for a 65/1 RMS.

Must have.

[breakingtime91]

Any reports on durability or battery life?

[Grey]

Any reports on durability or battery life?
Shield reports 3 years and it's constant on with no switch.

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[punkey71]

Any reports on durability or battery life?

Video said it never turns off.

Shield says 2-3 YEARS. 4 years with occasional dark storage. Auto adjust brightness.

Ive got a milled 19 with an RMR 06 (that's currently at Trijicon getting the front glass replaced) but I really can't see a reason NOT to grab an MOS 19 and the Shield with their proprietary lo-pro MOS plate.

RMRs battery life combined with the clear & large window of the DP PRO. Co witnesses Glock OEM sights as well.

If durability is there it seems like it could be a winner.


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[GJM]

How much, and where do you get them? Need to see in person, but display looks smaller than a DP Pro. Battery life might be "bigger," though.

[punkey71]

How much, and where do you get them? Need to see in person, but display looks smaller than a DP Pro. Battery life might be "bigger," though.

It may not be quite as big as the Pro but it appears larger than the RMR.

http://www.shieldpsd.com/portfolio-posts/reflex-mini-sight


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[Sigfan26]

It may not be quite as big as the Pro but it appears larger than the RMR.

http://www.shieldpsd.com/portfolio-posts/reflex-mini-sight


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Shield left, RMR right. The RMS window is not even as big as the RMR. The lens is also plastic and less scratch resistant.
My room mates guns. I did not serve.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/9d688bd18752450f0b70ba60edbd57d9.jpg



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[punkey71]

Shield left, RMR right. The RMS window is not even as big as the RMR. The lens is also plastic and less scratch resistant.
My room mates guns. I did not serve.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/9d688bd18752450f0b70ba60edbd57d9.jpg



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When I looked at the video, it appeared to be larger than the RMR @ ~4:30. Guess it was just my perception or the angle.

What's your roommate think of it VS the RMR?


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[Sigfan26]

The RMS is also not waterproof and does not give actual cowitness on either milled slides or MOS slides with standard sights. What you are seeing is the rear sight looking through a notch in the optic. If the rear sight is drifted at all, proper cowitness is gone. It is also preferred to remove the optic to change battery as the plastic battery drawer can break if you are not careful. The majority of customers are happy with them. It is a very good $300 optic, but not in the same class as an RMR or DP Pro for durability.


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[Sigfan26]

When I looked at the video, it appeared to be larger than the RMR @ ~4:30. Guess it was just my perception or the angle.

What's your roommate think of it VS the RMR?


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We have both shot the RMR and the RMS a lot. The RMS is mounted to a G43 (this is where it makes sense because larger optics won't fit). It is a very good optic that would be a great optic if it
1) Was waterproof
2) Had US based warranty support
3) Had a comparable warranty to competition


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[OnionsAndDragons]

I have already promised other people that I would lobby for a 65/1 RMS.

Must have.

I'd buy that. I really like that reticle.


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[That Guy]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/adcf6a7407869f8f2aaa72dbf52b46a3.png

That built in rear sight notch is a great idea! I've been wondering how come other manufacturers don't do that.

I wonder how well (or rather, how poorly...) it would work with a boring old rear sight notch mount? Would probably lift POI quite a bit...?

[Sigfan26]

Any reports on durability or battery life?


Video said it never turns off.

Shield says 2-3 YEARS. 4 years with occasional dark storage. Auto adjust brightness.

Ive got a milled 19 with an RMR 06 (that's currently at Trijicon getting the front glass replaced) but I really can't see a reason NOT to grab an MOS 19 and the Shield with their proprietary lo-pro MOS plate.

RMRs battery life combined with the clear & large window of the DP PRO. Co witnesses Glock OEM sights as well.

If durability is there it seems like it could be a winner.


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Battery died on my buddies yesterday. When optic was installed, a new Duracell (not the one that came with the optic) was used. Battery life: 3 Months.

[LockedBreech]

Sigfan, that Galactic Empire butt plate is fantastic.

[TAZ]

We have both shot the RMR and the RMS a lot. The RMS is mounted to a G43 (this is where it makes sense because larger optics won't fit). It is a very good optic that would be a great optic if it
1) Was waterproof
2) Had US based warranty support
3) Had a comparable warranty to competition


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At the price point they are advertising ($412 for optic and $488 with MOS plate) the 3 points above, #1 in particular, make it a no go. For a plinker 22 it's overpriced and fir a defensive optic no water resistance is a killer.

The concept has promise, but they need to up their game a bit.

[punkey71]

Battery died on my buddies yesterday. When optic was installed, a new Duracell (not the one that came with the optic) was used. Battery life: 3 Months.

Holy shit. Advertising 3-4 years and getting 3 months? Damn. Is he going or contact them to see what they say at least?



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[Gray222]

The lack of gadget in those dot photos is very disconcerting.

[Sigfan26]

Holy shit. Advertising 3-4 years and getting 3 months? Damn. Is he going or contact them to see what they say at least?



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Gonna do another battery, then see.


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