Would Hillary, Diane, Chuck, Mike, etc. deny him 2nd Amend. rights?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

A nice statement about the role of the 2nd Amend. What would an antigunner say to him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/muslim-gun-owner-hassan-shibly-islamophobia_us_57e2bfa4e4b08d73b82eefd2?section=&

It would be a great problem. The horror for them is that their great Satan (Donald) leads this man to have legitimate fears. We've seen such a problem in the Jewish community, guns are bad but should you be defenseless. Too many said Yes in the past and now.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Speaking as a Jew - for people who's head is usually buried in texts teaching us all about Jewish law & history which is rife with oppression & our own deaths, we don't learn all that well.

Just sayin.

[RoyGBiv]

Speaking as a Jew - for people who's head is usually buried in texts teaching us all about Jewish law & history which is rife with oppression & our own deaths, we don't learn all that well.

Just sayin.

My Florida Jewish mother says she can't discuss anything regarding politics with her lady friends because every one of them is a staunch left winger and H! supporter. She's as baffled by it as me.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I found the same thing discussing guns at work among my fellow Jews. It seemed that if you wanted to defend yourself - you were evil and must be the worst kind of right winger. Interestingly, there were non-Jewish but liberal folks who saw my point of view on firearms.

[breakingtime91]

I have found that most people don't want to learn to defend themselves because that acknowledges evil exists/can touch them personally. I find it interesting that you are discussing the Jewish community as having that viewpoint. I may be biased because all of the Israeli's I had the privilege of meeting universally believed in having a gun to handle threats. United States can be a very interesting place when discussing evil and self reliance..

[OlongJohnson]

http://www.seraphicpress.com/jew-without-a-gun/

[Jeep]

I found the same thing discussing guns at work among my fellow Jews. It seemed that if you wanted to defend yourself - you were evil and must be the worst kind of right winger. Interestingly, there were non-Jewish but liberal folks who saw my point of view on firearms.

I shoot with a number of Jewish guys. I also know more than a few Jewish guys who are appalled by the very idea of firearms. My current rule of thumb is that it all depends on their attitude to Israel. If they think that Israel is a colonialist, apartheid state then they will be opposed to anyone owning a gun (except Hamas or other oppressed people). These days an enormous number of so-called Jews are at least somewhat pro Hamas. If they are pro-Israel, however, they are far more likely to be open to firearms ownership.

And, of course, the same is true of the broader population. People who want to import huge numbers of Somalis, Syrians and other people who have a tendency to hate us also are usually in favor of banning guns.

The common thread, I think, is that people who believe the US/Israel/West is/are despicable and should be forcibly changed, also want to eliminate the effectiveness of the resistance to that change. The good news is that while there are a lot of people who think that way their numbers will decline because they tend to have few children and the future belongs to those who show up.

[Jay Cunningham]

People who want to import huge numbers of Somalis, Syrians and other people who have a tendency to hate us also are usually in favor of banning guns.

Why are so many Jewish groups at the forefront of promoting both unrestricted immigration and gun control?

[RoyGBiv]

Why are so many Jewish groups at the forefront of promoting both unrestricted immigration and gun control?

GUILT! . Duh... . /sarc

[Tamara]

Why are so many Jewish groups at the forefront of promoting both unrestricted immigration and gun control?

I'd be curious why you think that is?

[Tackleberry40sw]

I am a long time lurker and normally do not have much to say. I was born and raised on Long Island. My family immigrated to this country from Eastern Europe. I am Jewish and a Deputy Sheriff. I come from a Liberal background but have severed ties with that long ago. I do not buy into one side or the other. I can make my mind up one issue at a time. I do not understand why Judaism in this country promotes being victims when in Israel it is the opposite. I stumbled on this morale patch on Soldier Systems Daily and I had to have it. I bought two and one is on my vest carrier.

http://www.violentlittle.com/collections/new-shit/products/pieces-of-flair-morale-patch

[Robert Mitchum]

It's in there DNA.

The Torah says, many times, experience of oppression is meant to lead to ethical political action. “The stranger that dwells with you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers once in the land of Egypt” (Leviticus 19:34). “You shall not mistreat a stranger, nor oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.” (Exodus 22:21) “You must open your hand to your poor and needy brother in your land… and you must remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 15:11–15)

[Gray222]

Just to interject an outside the US Jewish upbringing to an inside the US Jewish realization...

I was raised by a family that had lost nearly 40% of its members during the Holocaust and then another 15-20% during Communism, all for being Jewish.

My grandmother was extremely pro firearms, she still is (in her late 80's), when we moved to the US she was so happy that the US allowed firearms to be owned privately without a "reason" which had been the law of the land in the USSR, though it was fairly easy get an AK or pistol, my uncles all owned various firearms, as did others.

When we came to the US and began to experience American Jewish culture we quickly realized that was, and still is, very ripe with political correctness and the "it can't happen here/to me" attitude. My grandmother used to go to synagogue once a week with my mother and they stopped because they began to get frustrated by the bullshit sheepish attitudes the American Jews had.

When I turned 21 my grandmother told me to go buy a gun and start carrying it because it was the only way to really prevent harm from coming to you. She wasn't wrong then and isn't now.

The American Jewish culture has been polluted by political correctness. It is the "other people's problem" mindset which is a failed one in and of itself. That mindset does not exist outside the US in international Jewish cultural centers. My grandmother was in her early teens when WWII broke out and her uncles, and older sister, went to war on the western front. She knew life before WWII, before Hitler. She said it is very much like the life the American Jews experience today.

It is one of the reasons no one talks about the Holocaust here, most Americans are removed from it and most cannot wrap their heads around it.

I've posted this before and this is a good thread to post it again - my grandmother has always told me that the freedoms we enjoy here are very special. We should do everything in our power to keep them and force out anyone who would take any of them away. Especially the second amendment because it is so unique to this country.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I think and have said elsewhere that Jewish social values have been at odds with classic conservative values that sometimes go along with outright antisemitism. If guns were a conservative value then they might be bad. It also goes along with the idea that in Europe self-defense was not reasonable. It was better to take the losses and let the greater group survive. The idea was that if the Cossack rapse Emma and you kill the Cossack, the Cossacks come and massacre the village.

That being said - I certainly don't buy it and told people, that you can get on the train, flapping your arms and yelling Oy Vey! but that's not me.

In a sense I diverted from my main idea in the thread. How can the politically correct Democrats who decry discrimination and especially discrimination against decent Islamic folks in the USA - answer the Iman's call for Second Amend. rights? Should their polices leave him unprotected against bigots who would do him violence. They could dismiss Jews who made that point as nuts but what about his concerns?

At the NTI - years ago, there were 4 Jewish PhDs participating. So there is hope.

[NEPAKevin]

Maybe I don't see the big picture, but what makes no sense to me is Jewish voters continuing to support the Democratic party after eight years of increasingly tepid relations with Israel topped off by a deal with Iran that for all intents and purposes funds terrorism while turning a blind eye to their nuclear aspirations.

[Oukaapie]

As a Jewish guy raised in South Africa who spent a lot of time in Israel with Yids from all over the world including South America and Europe. We tend to be fairly educated and fairly moderate. When we notice we live in a very dangerous society we pick up weapons as fast as anyone else. A very large percentage of Jewish males in South Africa trained martial arts and had pistols. Semi Auto Rifles were virtually impossible to get unless you lived on a farm.

The pervasive feeling of safety (relative to SA, Israel, Brazil et al) means that American Jews never grew up in a gun culture. It's not something the majority in the US have been exposed to and fear what they don't know.

I live in a predominantly Jewish area north of Chicago and most of our circle fear/hate firearms but probably 5-10% of the men have weapons. I'll be moving to TX in the next year so I suspect those figures will change.

[Suvorov]

I would imagine the fact that Jewish dietary customs for all intents forbids hunting thereby meaning that there is no real culture of firearms ownership outside the military/defensive realm has a fair amount of impact on how Jews view gun ownership. While we may look down our noses at the FUDDs we can not deny that out cultures are mutually inclusive for the most part. But then again - I'm a descendant of those Cossacks so I may not understand the dietary code 100%.

[BaiHu]

Maybe I don't see the big picture, but what makes no sense to me is Jewish voters continuing to support the Democratic party after eight years of increasingly tepid relations with Israel topped off by a deal with Iran that for all intents and purposes funds terrorism while turning a blind eye to their nuclear aspirations.
And the blacks/LGBT and any other minority , for that matter.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[UNK]

It's not just Jews. Look at the same infuriating attitude of Christians. Hell the American public in general.


Just to interject an outside the US Jewish upbringing to an inside the US Jewish realization...

I was raised by a family that had lost nearly 40% of its members during the Holocaust and then another 15-20% during Communism, all for being Jewish.

My grandmother was extremely pro firearms, she still is (in her late 80's), when we moved to the US she was so happy that the US allowed firearms to be owned privately without a "reason" which had been the law of the land in the USSR, though it was fairly easy get an AK or pistol, my uncles all owned various firearms, as did others.

When we came to the US and began to experience American Jewish culture we quickly realized that was, and still is, very ripe with political correctness and the "it can't happen here/to me" attitude. My grandmother used to go to synagogue once a week with my mother and they stopped because they began to get frustrated by the bullshit sheepish attitudes the American Jews had.

When I turned 21 my grandmother told me to go buy a gun and start carrying it because it was the only way to really prevent harm from coming to you. She wasn't wrong then and isn't now.

The American Jewish culture has been polluted by political correctness. It is the "other people's problem" mindset which is a failed one in and of itself. That mindset does not exist outside the US in international Jewish cultural centers. My grandmother was in her early teens when WWII broke out and her uncles, and older sister, went to war on the western front. She knew life before WWII, before Hitler. She said it is very much like the life the American Jews experience today.

It is one of the reasons no one talks about the Holocaust here, most Americans are removed from it and most cannot wrap their heads around it.

I've posted this before and this is a good thread to post it again - my grandmother has always told me that the freedoms we enjoy here are very special. We should do everything in our power to keep them and force out anyone who would take any of them away. Especially the second amendment because it is so unique to this country.

[Suvorov]

So to further educate myself I did a quick Google and it seems there is a lot more than the Kosher tradition to dissuade Jews from hunting.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1589324/jewish/The-Jewish-View-on-Hunting-for-Sport.htm
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-12-03/why-jews-don-t-hunt
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/hunting-in-judaism/

Anyhow my point is that when a society does not have hunting as a part of its culture then the number of people within it who are exposed to firearms (and certainly the positive aspects of firearms) is very limited. While my FUDD uncles may think my love of black rifles is a little strange, they get the gun part and tend to be OK with my "Timmy" tendencies, but if I came from a culture where the only exposure to firearms my family had was from the thug on the corner and the nightly news, then they would certainly view me as a whack job. This phenomena is also probably fairly widespread withing the Black and many Asian communities while "fly-over country" Whites and Hispanics not so much.

[Gray222]

It's not just Jews. Look at the same infuriating attitude of Christians. Hell the American public in general.

Yes I agree, I was speaking from my personal experience. American Christians, especially in the non-city areas have a very rich history of true Americanism, it is an aspect of Americana which I really enjoy. In contrast the only way American Christians can relate to Jews from EU/Eastern EU is from the loss of MAM (mil aged males) from WWII, even though the US military lost somewhere under 1 million men from all branches of service which can be contrasted by at least 6 million Jews killed in camps and 10-15 million Russian military service members (equal gender opportunity) killed. My grandmother's older sister served as a combat nurse during the Battle of Stalingrad at 18 years old and her husband who was an officer was killed during that battle, she did not find out until well into the following months after the war.

Whenever I get to talk about this topic with natural born American citizens that are old enough to either have known family in WWII or may have participated in WWII it is very rare they can relate to the level of destruction and turmoil that existed in Eastern EU during that period. It is a very foreign concept to most Americans, who only know about it from history books and movies like Saving Private Ryan and Schinlder's List. I grew up being told war stories by my grandmother and her older sister...

[Nephrology]

It is a very foreign concept to most Americans, who only know about it from history books and movies like Saving Private Ryan and Schinlder's List. I grew up being told war stories by my grandmother and her older sister...

With the exception of Pearl Harbor and that weird, unsuccessful attempt by the Japanese to invade the Aleutian Islands, American was completely insulated from the devastating effects of both WWI and WWII. Furthermore, the near immediate onset of the Cold War in the post-WWII era erased any understanding or interest in the devastation left behind in Eastern Europe. The USSR suffered the most casualties of any nation by a huge margin, but this of course does not jive with the Saving Private Ryan-centric view of how Americans have been taught to view the war. For this reason, most Americans will simply never be able to understand the psychological effect that war had on Eastern Europeans...

As for Jews and firearms, I am not Jewish so I can't really speak with much first hand experience, but it seems to me that a religion, culture and people (3 circles on a venn diagram that mostly overlap but not entirely...) as wide and varied as Judaism probably has a lot of different views on different things. I don't think it's necessarily reasonable to expect all Jews to believe one thing any more than it would be to expect all Christians or all Muslims to believe one thing, either. There's obviously a big difference between a Catholic from Boston and a Baptist from Tennessee and a Lutheran from Minnesota and a Mormon from Utah... and then we have the Westboro Baptist Church, so, well, there's that.

[Gray222]

With the exception of Pearl Harbor and that weird, unsuccessful attempt by the Japanese to invade the Aleutian Islands, American was completely insulated from the devastating effects of both WWI and WWII. Furthermore, the near immediate onset of the Cold War in the post-WWII era erased any understanding or interest in the devastation left behind in Eastern Europe. The USSR suffered the most casualties of any nation by a huge margin, but this of course does not jive with the Saving Private Ryan-centric view of how Americans have been taught to view the war. For this reason, most Americans will simply never be able to understand the psychological effect that war had on Eastern Europeans...

As for Jews and firearms, I am not Jewish so I can't really speak with much first hand experience, but it seems to me that a religion, culture and people (3 circles on a venn diagram that mostly overlap but not entirely...) as wide and varied as Judaism probably has a lot of different views on different things. I don't think it's necessarily reasonable to expect all Jews to believe one thing any more than it would be to expect all Christians or all Muslims to believe one thing, either. There's obviously a big difference between a Catholic from Boston and a Baptist from Tennessee and a Lutheran from Minnesota and a Mormon from Utah... and then we have the Westboro Baptist Church, so, well, there's that.

If we are talking about movies, Russian Sniper Movie "Battle for Sevastopol (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0106V55Z2/)" about "Lady Death" Lyudmila Pavlichencko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko) is probably one of the most accurate non-US made large scale movies I've seen which capture the carnage that existed during that time (which was confirmed by various reviews of the film by those who had actually been there). It's in Russian only and has English subs, there are some artsy scenes but mostly a good interpretation. There are several Russian-Langauge only series (like 50, one hour parts, which will never be translated) about WWII from the RU perspective that are really more of documentaries than anything but you'll never get your hands on them in the US and they'll never be translated, which is shame as the stories they tell are usually all legitimate from RU soldiers diaries recovered in the field.

Trailer is nsfw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh9mTLqW1O4

Contrasting it to Enemy at the Gates (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035JPVXY/) which also provides a fairly nice account of RU's deadliest male sniper in a dramatic way, from a US perspective it does show some of the evil's that were common place during the RU side of things.

Judaism in the US is an interesting and unique religion. When I was young I went to a private Jewish school and within the first two weeks I was told that I was not required to participate in any prayers and I should not feel required to believe in god either. The only thing they wanted from me, or any student, was to experience the culture and make the determination what was right for me. We had a rabbi who gave lectures every Friday morning at the school say to the whole student body (some 200 students) that it was not his job to make us believe in god but his job to educate us to make intelligent decisions about it and that understanding the history of the culture, where it stemmed from and the ethical/moral conduct which it represents is far more important. A lot for an elementary school level to take in.

Contrast that to the private Christian high school I attended where every wedn/tues/sunday I was told I'd not only go to hell for not believing in their god, specifically, but if I didn't repent on a daily basis I was an evil, moral-less sinner, with no hope of salvation - at least that's how I took it. Not to make this into a religious debate, its just my personal experience with the two contrasted. The Chaplin at my highschool was from GA and had a very nice southern accent, he taught our ethics/morality classes during the day. We would watch movies like Mississipi Burning (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000059TFO/) and Crimson Tide (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0053OANPK) as well as other religious-type movies and then have conversations about them, on ethical/moral terms. Mind you, he was well into his 70's at this point so he had lived through some stuff and there was a good mix of ethnicity in my school. He'd never interject religion into his statements, unless the topic was about religion. Even still he would never say one is better than the other, he would usually refer to them as a taste of the same ice cream cone.

He died a few years ago and I always use his voice in my head to help explain issues like current racial issues - he used to say (in a thick but smooth rural GA accent) "You cannot change human nature, you can only make sure there are consequences for such unethical conduct."

[Tamara]

Anyhow my point is that when a society does not have hunting as a part of its culture then the number of people within it who are exposed to firearms (and certainly the positive aspects of firearms) is very limited. While my FUDD uncles may think my love of black rifles is a little strange, they get the gun part and tend to be OK with my "Timmy" tendencies, but if I came from a culture where the only exposure to firearms my family had was from the thug on the corner and the nightly news, then they would certainly view me as a whack job. This phenomena is also probably fairly widespread withing the Black and many Asian communities while "fly-over country" Whites and Hispanics not so much.

Dude, that's an angle I completely hadn't thought of. I mean, bits and pieces of it, yeah, but applying it across a broad spectrum like that, no, I hadn't. Props.

Incidentally, working at a gun shop here in Indianapolis, I encountered a subculture I'd intellectually known must exist, but never bumped into before: The northern inner-city older black dudes who are rabidly avid hunters. The industrial neighborhoods in Indy and many other cities were filled from the Depression Era through the Fifties by people leaving sharecropper poverty in the Jim Crow South and looking for opportunity in the pre-Great Society industrial North, and those old guys and some of their kids are hardcore about the deer and the ducks, man.

[Tamara]

Whenever I get to talk about this topic with natural born American citizens that are old enough to either have known family in WWII or may have participated in WWII it is very rare they can relate to the level of destruction and turmoil that existed in Eastern EU during that period. It is a very foreign concept to most Americans, who only know about it from history books and movies like Saving Private Ryan and Schinlder's List. I grew up being told war stories by my grandmother and her older sister...

Part of America remembers what it was like to have their cities burned and a generation of males largely wiped out. My hometown's symbol isn't a phoenix because it looks pretty.

[Gray222]

Part of America remembers what it was like to have their cities burned and a generation of males largely wiped out. My hometown's symbol isn't a phoenix because it looks pretty.

Obviously I did not mean anything negative, just merely stating history as I've interpreted it.

[HCM]

Voodoo Man - have you seen an Estonian WWII movie called "1944" ?


http://youtu.be/vBDuO2zq1Zc

[Gray222]

Looks interesting I'll have to check it out.

[Suvorov]

Whenever I get to talk about this topic with natural born American citizens that are old enough to either have known family in WWII or may have participated in WWII it is very rare they can relate to the level of destruction and turmoil that existed in Eastern EU during that period. It is a very foreign concept to most Americans, who only know about it from history books and movies like Saving Private Ryan and Schinlder's List. I grew up being told war stories by my grandmother and her older sister...

If we are talking about movies, Russian Sniper Movie "Battle for Sevastopol (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0106V55Z2/)" about "Lady Death" Lyudmila Pavlichencko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko) is probably one of the most accurate non-US made large scale movies I've seen which capture the carnage that existed during that time (which was confirmed by various reviews of the film by those who had actually been there). It's in Russian only and has English subs, there are some artsy scenes but mostly a good interpretation.

Thank you for mentioning this as I can very much relate despite being a Gentile. My Father and his family were captured by the Nazi's when Sevastopol fell. My grandfather was a structural engineer and had been working on the city fortifications, my grandmother a doctor, my father a 3 year old boy. My family was shipped back West to work in the labor camps where my grandfather was forced to build bunkers for the Germans and my grandmother took care of the sick in the camps. It wasn't until I was older that I fully realized what kind of childhood my father must have had as a boy in the camp - he was haunted by those experiences his entire life. Like you, I grew up hearing the stories and seeing what few pictures remained of my family who had all but been wiped out by the Soviets and then the Nazi's. The total destruction and the tragedy upon tragedy that was inflicted upon all the people of the former Soviet Union is simply impossible many Americans (or even Western Europeans) to comprehend. There has been research done on victims and the decedents of the holocaust and other periods of long term trauma and it has been theorized that the DNA changes as generations that follow exhibit many of the follow on traits and disorders that the parents and grandparents received from the trauma despite never having been traumatized themselves.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/daily_videos/can-trauma-be-passed-to-next-generation-through-dna/

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/21/study-of-holocaust-survivors-finds-trauma-passed-on-to-childrens-genes

This might certainly account for you and I being on this forum right now?

It is also truly sad that the stories of the suffering and heroics on the Eastern Front will never be fully known in the West. As a former American soldier I am rightly proud of the sacrifice of the Western Allies during WWII and the blood bath that was places such as Iwo Jima, Normandy, Bastogne, but I realize that the worst of days for the American's was simply another day of "acceptable losses" for the Soviet (and even the German) armies on the Eastern Front.

[Tamara]

It is also truly sad that the stories of the suffering and heroics on the Eastern Front will never be fully known in the West. As a former American soldier I am rightly proud of the sacrifice of the Western Allies during WWII and the blood bath that was places such as Iwo Jima, Normandy, Bastogne, but I realize that the worst of days for the American's was simply another day of "acceptable losses" for the Soviet (and even the German) armies on the Eastern Front.

The sheer scale of the Eastern Front dwarfs anything that happened on the Western Front or in the Pacific. For that matter, most Americans can't wrap their heads around the worst of the horrors of the Western Front in the '14-'18 War (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2013/11/time-and-distance.html), either: 19,000+ KIA on the opening day of the Somme Offensive...

Of course in absolute numbers, and especially by percentage of population, WWII wasn't America's big war. Our big one was entirely intramural (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war#Wars_rank ed_by_total_number_of_American_military_deaths).

[Suvorov]

The sheer scale of the Eastern Front dwarfs anything that happened on the Western Front or in the Pacific. For that matter, most Americans can't wrap their heads around the worst of the horrors of the Western Front in the '14-'18 War (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2013/11/time-and-distance.html), either: 19,000+ KIA on the opening day of the Somme Offensive..

<<<Tangent Warning>>>
I consider myself better able than most to wrap my mind around tragedy, but after listening to Dan Carlin's 25 hours on WWI, I have to say that there were many times I just glazed over and thought to myself - "and we get pissed when our fries are soggy and (insert favorite sports team here) looses?????"

[Gray222]

Thank you for mentioning this as I can very much relate despite being a Gentile. My Father and his family were captured by the Nazi's when Sevastopol fell. My grandfather was a structural engineer and had been working on the city fortifications, my grandmother a doctor, my father a 3 year old boy. My family was shipped back West to work in the labor camps where my grandfather was forced to build bunkers for the Germans and my grandmother took care of the sick in the camps. It wasn't until I was older that I fully realized what kind of childhood my father must have had as a boy in the camp - he was haunted by those experiences his entire life. Like you, I grew up hearing the stories and seeing what few pictures remained of my family who had all but been wiped out by the Soviets and then the Nazi's. The total destruction and the tragedy upon tragedy that was inflicted upon all the people of the former Soviet Union is simply impossible many Americans (or even Western Europeans) to comprehend. There has been research done on victims and the decedents of the holocaust and other periods of long term trauma and it has been theorized that the DNA changes as generations that follow exhibit many of the follow on traits and disorders that the parents and grandparents received from the trauma despite never having been traumatized themselves.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/daily_videos/can-trauma-be-passed-to-next-generation-through-dna/

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/21/study-of-holocaust-survivors-finds-trauma-passed-on-to-childrens-genes

This might certainly account for you and I being on this forum right now?

It is also truly sad that the stories of the suffering and heroics on the Eastern Front will never be fully known in the West. As a former American soldier I am rightly proud of the sacrifice of the Western Allies during WWII and the blood bath that was places such as Iwo Jima, Normandy, Bastogne, but I realize that the worst of days for the American's was simply another day of "acceptable losses" for the Soviet (and even the German) armies on the Eastern Front.

I am sure some doctor, shrink or scientist will tell me I'm wrong but I just don't believe in that type of thing.

My family grew up in hardship, I was born into a hardship people in the US simply do not understand and cannot comprehend (or maybe they will if hildizzle gets elected?) The struggle during every day life was very real and life was very much a day to day event.

As I've stated before, I am truly grateful for the hardships that guided me in my life. Without them I would not be the person I am today and being born into a surviving family is very much part of that.

History has taught us that we should take care to understand our past so that we do not repeat it, this country is walking that fine line right now...


<<<Tangent Warning>>>
I consider myself better able than most to wrap my mind around tragedy, but after listening to Dan Carlin's 25 hours on WWI, I have to say that there were many times I just glazed over and thought to myself - "and we get pissed when our fries are soggy and (insert favorite sports team here) looses?????"

I listened to it as well, amazing what lessons were learned so early in the 1900's and yet we still make the same mistakes today in our culture.

Did we forget? Or, were we never taught?

[Tackleberry40sw]

I listened to it as well, amazing what lessons were learned so early in the 1900's and yet we still make the same mistakes today in our culture.

Did we forget? Or, were we never taught?

Ignorance is bliss. They neither have the ability to comprehend or understand the hardship. I too grew up listening to stories from my grandparents about my great grandparents and the old country. One of my great grandfathers wore tattoo of a Star of David on his forearm from the Lithuanian Police (This Prior to World War 1). The selective memories of people and the selective history they choose to study.

[Wondering Beard]

This is from a couple of years ago but relevant to this discusion:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V4bmm6yJMw

[Gray222]

Ignorance is bliss. They neither have the ability to comprehend or understand the hardship. I too grew up listening to stories from my grandparents about my great grandparents and the old country. One of my great grandfathers wore tattoo of a Star of David on his forearm from the Lithuanian Police (This Prior to World War 1). The selective memories of people and the selective history they choose to study.

It's one thing I never understood in the US pertaining to modern culture. I get that tattoos are cool and all but when members of your family and those who come from the same culture as you associate yourself with were branded as a sign of discrimination and would disqualify a Jew from being buried in a proper grave yard. Here people, especially Jews tattoo themselves and act as though it's a part of their faith. It really boggles my mind. Maybe I am just old school in this regard.

[NickA]

<<<Tangent Warning>>>
I consider myself better able than most to wrap my mind around tragedy, but after listening to Dan Carlin's 25 hours on WWI, I have to say that there were many times I just glazed over and thought to myself - "and we get pissed when our fries are soggy and (insert favorite sports team here) looses?????"

His Ghosts of the Ostfront series is specifically about the Eastern Front in WWII; it's older and you have to pay for it now but well worth it.

[Suvorov]

His Ghosts of the Ostfront series is specifically about the Eastern Front in WWII; it's older and you have to pay for it now but well worth it.

Agreed - it is tragically awesome.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Judaism, when the Jewish State still stood during pre-Roman times, was a harsh religion that grew up in a harsh place surrounded by harsh people. There were tribal wars with neighboring states, various civil wars, religious purges…

The wars with the Roman empire were brutal and the Jewish state died a very hard death. Rome lost a lot of people and put down the revolt very hard. Since the Roman destruction of Judea, Jews have been guests, many times unwanted, in other lands.
When the local ruler got tired of them for some reason (either because he was indebted to you, his people got tired of you acting as his tax collector or various other reasons making you unpopular) unpleasantness such as confiscation of property, forced conversion, general brutality, massacres and expulsion followed.

People grew up knowing you did not resist because if you did it would be worse. Jews could not own weapons in many countries. They may have had limited or no rights. You went along to get along because if you didn’t you were going to bring a world of hurt on everyone.

Further, observant Jews don’t eat meat that is not slaughtered in a ritual manner. Meat that was killed by hunting, even an animal that is kosher, is not supposed to be eaten.

That’s the background & the underlying mentality.

There is no place in post-Roman Jewish history until very recently for the warrior…except the people who are likely going to get drunk and burn your village down around you. (Which you would then rebuild thankful that you survived…) Yes, their were Jewish Pirates, but that was the exception, not the standard.

Fast forward to Jews in America…

The comparative lack of religious persecution still didn’t change the underlying thinking. ‘They’ haven’t come to burn you out yet, and likely aren’t – so don’t fuck it up. Keep your head down, don’t make trouble, and be a good American.

Jewish religious and social life is built around communities. Daily prayers are supposed to be done with at least 10 men in attendance. Once a community is established with amenities like synagogues, kosher butchers, restaurants (the shit I will do for a kosher taco would make things you would do for a Klondike bar look tame…) and so forth a lot of people tend to not leave.

Communities like those in NYC, Boston & Chicago are major liberal shit-holes, but that is where the community is and where life can take place, so people live there and get infected with/by the left.

If your male relative served in the military that’s great! He’s serving his country and when he comes home he can go back to a respectable profession…(oh, and if he liked shooting, I guess he can do that too…I mean, some people golf …)

If one of those respectable professions happens to involve carrying a lot of money then sure, get a gun to protect the money. And yourself. I guess…because terrorism (but you should really call the police…)

Most Jewish kids do not grow up going hunting with dad.
They likely do not have fond memories of the first hunting trip with dad.

Guns have police, military and professional use – but as to general personal defense…You call the police for that.
Things are changing, at least in orthodox circles, but generally speaking Jews are anti-gun because of historical precedent of not fighting back & leftist indoctrination.

Well. That’s my take on Jews & Guns.
(I’m going to go back to the stern disapproval of the Rabbi for having a German handgun…but, I got it on sale, so…like, whatever…)

[Paul Sharp]

...People grew up knowing you did not resist because if you did it would be worse. Jews could not own weapons in many countries. They may have had limited or no rights. You went along to get along because if you didn’t you were going to bring a world of hurt on everyone.…)

Reminds me of a joke I was told would help me understand being Jewish. Two Jews are set to be executed by firing squad. At the appointed time they are marched out to field where they will be executed. The judge asks them if they have any last words? One man says, "Yes, I have a few things I'd like to say." The other man says, "Shhh, be quiet. Don't make trouble."



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[Mitchell, Esq.]

Reminds me of a joke I was told would help me understand being Jewish. Two Jews are set to be executed by firing squad. At the appointed time they are marched out to field where they will be executed. The judge asks them if they have any last words? One man says, "Yes, I have a few things I'd like to say." The other man says, "Shhh, be quiet. Don't make trouble."



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Yes.

You understand!

[Gray222]

Reminds me of a joke I was told would help me understand being Jewish. Two Jews are set to be executed by firing squad. At the appointed time they are marched out to field where they will be executed. The judge asks them if they have any last words? One man says, "Yes, I have a few things I'd like to say." The other man says, "Shhh, be quiet. Don't make trouble."



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I've heard this one before...except it was said as a British joke...

The difference in American Jews and Jews elsewhere is very distinct. I come from a family where every man has served for generations, and most women. My grandmother was the first daughter to not serve in the military but that was because she was too busy taking care of her 5 siblings while her parents were killed in a camp and her older (and oldest of 7) sister was serving. We are Jewish not because of some sweeping change in a countries political makeup or whatnot, we are Jewish because we have held onto that culture for as long as anyone in my family can remember anyone ever being Jewish, it stems from service to their community and ethical/moral conduct stemming from the culture which has been passed down.

This type of thing is very much lacking in American Jewish culture.