Optic and Mounting Hardware for M1A Rifle

[Jay Cunningham]

Disclaimer: Don't try to talk sense into me, I know all about the limitations of the M1A/M-14 platform. I have one that I really like, and I think I want an optic on it.


Let's talk about the mounting hardware for the M1A rifle and compare/contrast optics choices for the .308 round in this application.

The most realistic range for me is 300 yards, but I can probably find some spots to stretch out to 500.

I don't hunt, this is like a hobbyist/snipe-the-zombies gun for me.

[smithjd]

When I was in my M1A phase, I started with a Scout Squad, full of GI parts. I would up adding a lot to get it to an honest 2moa shooter that was very handy. But I removed the forward rail and used a Sadlak scope mount:

http://sadlak.com/si_rifle_parts_sm.html

It was a very good mount, much better than the old SA offerings.

ETA: I used a Leupold Mk4 1.5x5 and was very happy with it. That scope currently resides on a Noveske upper for my coyote rifle.

[GJM]

I used the Ultimak mount with an Aimpoint, but I cleaned them all out in the post Newtown panic buying time.

How come you are going XD on us now?

[Jay Cunningham]

I've heard good stuff about the Sadlak mount. What rings did you use?

[Jay Cunningham]

How come you are going XD on us now?

I know that's humor, but I don't get it.

Well, I think maybe I do, but I'm not sure.

I'm not here to talk anyone into an M1A. I just want opinions on magnified optics solutions for them out to 500 yards.

[JAD]

A friend who has reason to know strongly prefers the sadlak.

[smithjd]

Leupold Mk4 rings. They look like Badger rings. Still work.

I wound up adding washers to the gas block to remove play, switching the muzzle break to Smith Enterprises Vortex / gas block front sight, and added the Smith Enterprises bolt release. It was also re-barreled with a Criterion barrel. It was a very handy rifle. Sold it to my brother. I like my brother.

I didn't hate the rifle like some do. But I have a SCAR17 now...

[GJM]

I know that's humor, but I don't get it.

Well, I think maybe I do, but I'm not sure.

I'm not here to talk anyone into an M1A. I just want opinions on magnified optics solutions for them out to 500 yards.

I am interested in your thinking how the M1A makes sense, Circa 2016, for launching .308 to 500 yards. Sincere question. Same kind of question folks asked lawguy about his desire for a .380. Not being a smarts ass and genuinely interested in being educated.

[Jay Cunningham]

In my OP I stated that the most realistic range for me is 300 yards. I could probably stretch it out to 500 a couple of places around where I live.

This is a hobby gun. I have it and I like it and I'd like to dick with putting an optic on it instead of some other option which I neither have the money nor the inclination for.

If I can hit a torso-sized steel target at 400 yards every time I pull the trigger, I'll be all happy and shit.


p.s. I can hit a torso-sized steel target at 300 yards prone with iron sights, slung into the gun with a canvas sling. FMJ ammo. So I know it will do that/I will do that. It's not bedded, not a stainless barrel, doesn't have NM sights. It's a plain-Jane rifle which I've taken a shine to.

[GJM]

In my OP I stated that the most realistic range for me is 300 yards. I could probably stretch it out to 500 a couple of places around where I live.

This is a hobby gun. I have it and I like it and I'd like to dick with putting an optic on it instead of some other option which I neither have the money nor the inclination for.

If I can hit a torso-sized steel target at 400 yards every time I pull the trigger, I'll be all happy and shit.


p.s. I can hit a torso-sized steel target at 300 yards prone with iron sights, slung into the gun with a canvas sling. FMJ ammo. So I know it will do that/I will do that. It's not bedded, not a stainless barrel, doesn't have NM sights. It's a plain-Jane rifle which I've taken a shine to.

Reasonable answer. The reason I asked, is because I spent a bunch of money on M1A rifles over the years, and have zero now. And that is intentional. Perhaps the world changed, and I learn new things very day. The reason for the XD question, is I think it is a good analogy. When a buddy says, "hey, great news, I just spent $650 on an XD, which came with a holster, mag pouch and case, it is my new awesome defense gun," I have a similar reaction to putting money into a M1A. Look forward to how you make out, and it it ends up allowing you to shoot to 500 yards without turning it essentially into a chassis project.

[Jay Cunningham]

I've had this gun for 10 years.

It ain't going anywhere.

[P.E. Kelley]

Personally scoping the 14 is a sacrilege, but IF I were to to so (ok I have for accuracy testing but I hated myself)

this would be the one. http://www.m14.ca/M14_M1A_CASM_Scope_Mount.html

[P.E. Kelley]

Irons for the win...many many wins.
http://www.multigunmedia.com/img/s4/v9/p401333008-4.jpg

[Jay Cunningham]

Irons for the win...many many wins.
http://www.multigunmedia.com/img/s4/v9/p401333008-4.jpg

Very cool.

Someone will be along shortly to tell you that you should have been using an AR-15.

[Xrslug]

Irons for the win...many many wins.
http://www.multigunmedia.com/img/s4/v9/p401333008-4.jpg

Stock irons or are those NM? (Looks like a hood on the rear sight).

[GJM]

The quality and design of the rear sight in my single favorite feature of the Garand and M1A. They are not BUIS.

[P.E. Kelley]

Stock irons or are those NM? (Looks like a hood on the rear sight).

NM rear with the aperture drilled out to 0.070" and a standard front sight (so I can see it).

Clipped one coil from the trigger spring.

Recoil pad and cheek riser has it handling like a shotgun. (I will have to get off my butt and shoot some flying clays with it for video)

I cut and threaded the stock flash hider then fit a Miculek 223 brake that I reamed for 308.

LOVE that rifle!!!

[minengr]

Mine is a Brookfield type. It's actually a US Tactical Systems, but I don't believe the exact model is still being made.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/minengr/m14/IMAG0123.jpg

[HCM]

I have a Scout Squad with an Aimpoint Comp M. Bought it 20 years ago during the AWB. It's been reliable and battle rifle accurate, 3-4 MOA depending on ammo. I wouldn't recommend it over an AR-10 to someone in a free state but it's not going anywhere.

[GJM]

I have a Scout Squad with an Aimpoint Comp M. Bought it 20 years ago during the AWB. It's been reliable and battle rifle accurate, 3-4 MOA depending on ammo. I wouldn't recommend it over an AR-10 to someone in a free state but it's not going anywhere.

That was my accuracy experience with the 16 inch models from SA, which will make 500 interesting. Jay, have you also considered in addition to an optic, making it an iron sight trainer. Dialing elevation with that rear sight is as good as it gets with irons.

[Suvorov]

I have a big soft spot for the M14 and it's predecessor. Back in 1994 it was all I could do to get a SA M1A before the curtain fell on evil assault weapons (I didn't realize that in reality I was paying $500 for a bayonet lug). Thus started my relationship with the M14 pattern rifle. Shortly after getting the rifle I bought a Springfield Gen 1 scope mount. As everyone here already knows, it was a POS and good for about 10 rounds before needing to be re-tightened. In 1998 I sent my rifle back to SAA to have it upgraded to a NM rifle. In 2004 I purchased a Socom16 adding to my M14 family. As time grew I began experimenting with different optics and mounts on the two rifles before (fast forward to today) selling my Socom (and purchasing a PWS Mk216) and returning my M1A back to what it originally was meant to be before I caught the scope mounting bug.

As far as scope mounts go, looked long and hard back around 2008 and went with the ARMS mount. I purchased the ARMS because it had the lowest profile by far of any of the quality mounts on the market and it's small size also made it lighter than the steel Sadlaks. The big issue with the ARMS is that they are very sensitive to receiver dimensions and if your Springfield receiver varies much from the military receivers then it will not fit right. As my NM rifle was built on a early 90s receiver the mount fitted well. I ordered it from Brownells in case it didn't fit I could return it but I lucked out and the mount fit perfectly. I never did try it on my Socom. Despite using the lowest profile rings I could find and the low profile of the mount I ended up going with a cheek riser. The first was a simple Black Hawk padded riser but that not being tacticool enough I purchased a fancy $70 one from TNVC. The problem with it was that scope's LOS was too low profile for the cheek riser and I had to modify that. In the end, I ended up with a rifle that was too heavy and cumbersome to shoot comfortably for me with a scope from the 4 classic positions. As I have yet to find a benchrest in the field (I am a wanabee Timmy after all) I decided it wasn't the route for me.

So my conclusions here echo GJM's. The iron's on the M14 should be good enough for you to make solid hits at 400 yards. If I were to remount an optic I would go with a lower power optic and one that has as minimal parallax as possible to avoid the need for a cheek riser. I have often thought about putting a micro dot on my M1A and experimenting with that kind of set up (I still have the scope mount on it) but with the pending Kalifornia Gunmaggeddon and Hillary's theft of the election, all my money is going into ammo right now......

This is what my rifle looked like when the scope was mounted....

10679

[Matt C.]

+1 on the ARMS18


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/Stutzen/Socom-Steiner/004_zpsru1qjn2e.jpg

[Suvorov]

+1 on the ARMS18


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/Stutzen/Socom-Steiner/004_zpsru1qjn2e.jpg

Very nice set up! I was thinking about going that way with my Socom before I sold it as I had tried and not really loved the "scout scope" concept. Obviously no fit issues with the ARMS mount in you Socom receiver? What kind of accuracy are you getting with that setup?

[Matt C.]

No issues with the mount although I know of one rifle that had ejection issues.
I'm using Federal T762TNB1(130gr) and had some impressive 3 shot groups but 3+moa over a 10 shot string is a more likely.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[LSW]

The 4 M14's I've had (still have 3, 2 LRB's and an SEI) all shoot better than 2 MOA wth M118lr, FGMM, or Hornady AMAX loadings. One is a relatively lightweight 18.5" barreled 9 lb rifle that I leave with irons but have scoped periodically for accuracy testing, 1.5 MOA with the aforementioned ammo. They will easily go 4 MOA+ with cheap FMJ, hunting grade soft point stuff like core-lokt, or M80 though. I used the Basset mount for awhile but found that it will shoot loose after a few hundred rounds. I would recommend the sadlak steel mount or steel airborne mount. The rifle has a fair bit of violent recoil and cheap mounts will shoot loose easily. I'll never claim that it'll outshoot on OBR or other precision oriented AR-10's, although my NM LRB might as long as the bedding stays tight. There is a certain trust in the reliability of the M14's operating system for me, although I have seen all the videos where they put mud in the action to choke it.

Took a DMR class with my 18.5" a few years back and had no problem getting hits out to 600 yards with it, 100% hits on B-21 targets out to 400, 90% at 500, 75% at 600 and so on, shooting Hornaday TAP 155gr AMAX. Outshot the other students who were using 5.56 AR's for the same thing, and it was nice putting 500 rounds of duty ammo down that rifle's pipe without so much as a hiccup. Obviously wind calls starting getting pretty important past 400 or so with the .308, that was on a basset mount with a Leuopold VX-R patrol 3x-10x. Zero started wandering on me every few hundred rounds and had to re-tighten the scope mount, which is why I recommend the sadlak. The best optics mounting solution for the M14 is the LRB M25 receiver, or an AR-10 :p

I mostly keep the M14's going because I have the heirloom depicted below, which has the ultimak rail optic mount, which btw, seems to work pretty great for a red dot, although I would be nervous about using on a precision setup due to all the contact with the barrel.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/LoneStarWings/th_P1000381.mp4 (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/LoneStarWings/P1000381.mp4)

This is how the one I shot at the DMR class was configured (LRB M14sa Tanker w/ Criterion Chrome Lined 18.5" barrel and USGI Fiberglass stock):

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae219/randomperson8008/dmr.jpg

[Jay Cunningham]

Great info!