My Savage Model 1907 .32 ACP Pistol

[Doug Bowser]

My Savage Model 1907 7.65mm Pistol

This pistol was manufactured in 1912. It was expertly refinished a long time ago. The grips are not chipped or cracked. The bore is excellent and it functions well with any type .32 ACP ammo. I have made this my Church carry pistol.
I think the sculptured design of the slide and frame are outstanding. An additional plus is the 10 shot double staggered magazine. It was quite a bit ahead of it's time for 1907.
The target shown was fired at 15 yards on the NRA B-8 target, using Remington 71 gr FMJ ammo. With a center hold.
It is one of my prized possessions.


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[TheNewbie]

Awesome!

What's the trigger feel comparable to ?

[Duelist]

Wow, that's beautiful. Wish my P32 would shoot half that well.

[Doug Bowser]

Awesome!

What's the trigger feel comparable to ?

It is about like a USGI 1911-A-1

[Tamara]

10523

Now that Colt Pocket Hammerless models are starting to bring stupid money, Savages are the new hotness for reasonably-priced collecting. The fact that they went through a bajillion little design changes over their short production life makes them fun to collect, since there are, like, fifteen+ distinct variations of the .32 ACP models alone (this might also explain their brief shelf life.)

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I've never seen one that I'd trust for pocket carry in a world where LCPs and Glock 42s are cheap and plentiful.

(A common failure mode for the little things, by the way, is for them to stop disconnecting and go all schnellfeuer.)

[Hambo]

(A common failure mode for the little things, by the way, is for them to stop disconnecting and go all schnellfeuer.)

Just think of it as a mini-VZ61 in your pocket.

[alohadoug]

Here's a link (http://www.vintagepistols.com/1907/index.html)to a website that a guy local to me put together about the 1907.

I love those and 1903s (in .32, wasn't fond of them in .380).

Aloha

[BillSWPA]

That is a neat piece of history, but why choose that for church? If something happens there, it could very likely be something beyond a typical individual self defense situation.

[Doug Bowser]

That is a neat piece of history, but why choose that for church? If something happens there, it could very likely be something beyond a typical individual self defense situation.

It is small and really concealable. I am a good enough shot to make head shots with it out to 20 yards.

[Tamara]

It is small and really concealable.

Not really. It's somewhere in size between a G26 and G19.

They're also not very safe to carry chambered and cocked and aren't terribly reliable by modern standards. Spare magazines are rare and iffy. And they are absolutely 100% not drop safe. You fumble that thing and drop it in church and you're likely to wind up like Steve Malloy (http://www.tactical-life.com/combat-handguns/dropped-gun-inertia-discharge/) or, worse, hit a fellow parishioner with the bullet from your antique.

You'll probably find that a lot of folks around here don't count much for "style points" in a carry gun. Leave the cool C&R gats for show'n'tell sessions around the gun safe and occasional sunny-day range trips.

[Doug Bowser]

Not really. It's somewhere in size between a G26 and G19.

They're also not very safe to carry chambered and cocked and aren't terribly reliable by modern standards. Spare magazines are rare and iffy. And they are absolutely 100% not drop safe. You fumble that thing and drop it in church and you're likely to wind up like Steve Malloy (http://www.tactical-life.com/combat-handguns/dropped-gun-inertia-discharge/) or, worse, hit a fellow parishioner with the bullet from your antique.

You'll probably find that a lot of folks around here don't count much for "style points" in a carry gun. Leave the cool C&R gats for show'n'tell sessions around the gun safe and occasional sunny-day range trips.

I carry it with no round in the chamber. I have practiced operating the slide so many times, I could do it blindfolded.

[Tamara]

I carry it with no round in the chamber. I have practiced operating the slide so many times, I could do it blindfolded.

Can you do it blindfolded and with one hand tied behind your back? ;)

[Duelist]

I carry it with no round in the chamber. I have practiced operating the slide so many times, I could do it blindfolded.

With one hand, while some jack wipe thug or thugette sticks a cheap kitchen knife repeatedly in your gut, and people are screaming, and ....? Then? You can Israeli-rack that beautiful antique then?

I have a neat old British revolver that was made in 1870 in my safe. I have never, and plan to never fire it. Times move on. Neat old weapons are neat, but some should be retired from active service. Anything that is not drop safe by modern standards should probably fall into this category.

[Duelist]

Tamara beat me. Sigh.

[Doug Bowser]

I know you have a point but the obsolete firearms are what I personally enjoy using. Some gun is better than no gun.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm rather fond of old guns as well, and old "pocket pistols" even more. But, a gun you carry is a tool for self defense first and foremost. A gun as an item of personal expression is a minor factor.
Old pistols have many, many limitations. As mentioned above, you may either accidentally shoot yourself, or you may not shoot someone you really need to, like right now.
You may even find your little .32 isn't really enough gun- if you have to shoot someone, Murphy isn't on your side at that moment.
And in this current legal environment, you may be losing that gun for a few years, or maybe even forever.
If you absolutely have to tote a gun that's really old, an old Colt Detective Special or S&W Centennial may be a safer bet.
Better still, get a modern pocket 9- Shield, Glock 43, PPS, ect.

[LSP972]

I've never seen one that I'd trust for pocket carry in a world where LCPs and Glock 42s are cheap and plentiful.

(A common failure mode for the little things, by the way, is for them to stop disconnecting and go all schnellfeuer.)

I remember you saying, quite a while back, pretty much the same thing; and those words "saved" me from buying one. So I thank you for it.

But... LCPs???? C'mon, now you're stretching. That's a KelTec with better lipstick.😎

.

[BillSWPA]

I know you have a point but the obsolete firearms are what I personally enjoy using. Some gun is better than no gun.

That is the starting point of proper tool selection for non-permissive environments, but church is not usually a NPE. If you can hide something that big, you can also hide a Glock 26. You would then have 11 rounds in the gun including one in the chamber, possibly tritium sights, 9mm+P stopping power, and modern safety and reliability. You would still be able to make head shots as far away as you can now.

[Kyle Reese]

It is small and really concealable. I am a good enough shot to make head shots with it out to 20 yards.
Ever tried doing that under stress? I'd humbly suggest examining the many merits that a modern handgun possesses for NPE carry.

The Walther PPS, Glock 43 & S&W Shield all fit the bill....

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[TGS]

Some gun is better than no gun.

This is a fact of life, but not to be used as an excuse to carry an objectively inferior tool due to feel-good emotions.

Hey man, I get it. I get my kicks out of old guns. I had a Mauser 1914 and an HSc that I loved, and even pocket carried it a time or two when I was new to CCW'ing and didn't have a proper holster selection for my usual gun.

There are some guns I still have for enjoyment, like my SIG P232SL with Nill grips. We should all be wary of mixing our tools for actual use with our hobbies, however. Tamara probably has more C&R guns than everyone else on this board combined, but I think she'll agree with me here.

I strongly echo TYR in taking a step back and being truthful and objective with your evaluations on your capability under duress in a real life confrontation.

[Tamara]

Apparently for some people the main purpose of their carry gun is to make a statement (not sure to whom, since hopefully it's concealed) and not to shoot fools should the unfortunate necessity of fool-shooting arise.

[Tamara]

But... LCPs???? C'mon, now you're stretching. That's a KelTec with better lipstick.😎

I know. It's like chewing on a cat turd to say it, but even that's a better carry choice than pretty much any classic pocket pistol. In another thread the point was made that if the Kel-Tec P32 had been released in the Nineteen-teens, it would have been an industry benchmark for pocket pistol reliability. :eek:

[Doug Bowser]

The Savage was way ahead of it's time. It can be carried safely with the hammer down on a live round. The safety is more positive than the 1903 Colt. It actually holds the striker back away from the sear. I know all of you are correct about the use of modern handguns. My Sig P225 is a modern handgun, I prefer to any Glock.

[TR675]

The Savage was way ahead of it's time.

Yes but it's *way* behind THIS time and that is what everyone is harping on you about.

I don't really give a shit what anyone carries other than to say that carrying a non-drop safe gun in this day and age is negligent.


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[Tamara]

The Savage was way ahead of it's time. It can be carried safely with the hammer down on a live round.

JESUS CHRIST NO! STOP SPREADING THIS IGNORANT DERP OR YOU WILL GET PEOPLE KILLED.

The Savage 1907 does not have a hammer. The Savage 1907 is a striker-fired weapon and when the cocking indicator (what is ignorantly referred to as a "hammer") is forward, the nose of the striker is resting on the primer of the chambered round and a sharp rap on the cocking indicator will fire the weapon.

Jesus wept.

[Tamara]

To expand on the above: The Savage is a single-action, striker-fired pistol. It does not have a floating firing pin that is hit by a hammer, it has a linear striker powered by a coaxial striker spring. When the striker is in the forward, or fired, position, it protrudes past the breechface. (The lozenge-shaped hole for the striker pin in the cocking indicator is in theory supposed to prevent this, but it is in no way a positive safety and between dirt and tolerance stacking, I wouldn't trust it at all.)

http://i.imgur.com/sGEv07P.gif

[Beat Trash]

Apparently for some people the main purpose of their carry gun is to make a statement (not sure to whom, since hopefully it's concealed) and not to shoot fools should the unfortunate necessity of fool-shooting arise.

Excellent point.

Although any gun that I may be tempted to buy just to make a statement, Nyeti has already found and posted pictures of on the Revolver forum...

Otherwise, my ugly a** Glock 19 or Shield will have to make any fashion statements for me.

[HCM]

It is small and really concealable. I am a good enough shot to make head shots with it out to 20 yards.

I love old guns and A gun in s better than no gun. Even if you want to carry an old gun. a colt or S&W revolver would be a more practical choice than anything you need to carry chamber empty.

Re: head shots. The ability to keep everything in the black of a B-8 slow fire on a range at 20 yards does not equal 20 yard head shots on demand at 20 yards in a real life situation.

1) All head shots are not created equal. To be effective you need to hit the brain / central nervous system. A target about the size of a 3x5 index card. People are often shot in other parts of the head / face and not incapacitated. Do a google search for "Jared Reston" he is a Jacksonville Florida LEO who was shot multiple time with a .45 acp, with a he first shot to the face. Second not all pistol bullets make it into the skull. I worked with a medically retired NYC Transit Police officer who took a .38 Special 158 grain LSWC to the forehead. The round failed to penetrate his skull and instead traveled around his head under the skin.

2) As noted by others, making a "head shot" on a static bullseye target and making a head shot under fire against a moving opponent are two very different things.

[psalms144.1]

Re: head shots. The ability to keep everything in the black of a B-8 slow fire on a range at 20 yards does not equal 20 yard head shots on demand at 20 yards in a real life situation.

1) All head shots are not created equal. To be effective you need to hit the brain / central nervous system. A target about the size of a 3x5 index card. People are often shot in other parts of the head / face and not incapacitated.

2) As noted by others, making a "head shot" on a static bullseye target and making a head shot under fire against a moving opponent are two very different things.I was lucky enough to meet a fellow who was given a "coup-de-grace" head shot at near point blank range during Just Cause. Hit in the head with a .45 ACP FMJ round - which skidded off the edge of his k-pot JUST ENOUGH to then run a circuit around his skull. Wicked scar, and a nasty headache to be sure, but in the "flesh wound" category. Things in the real world hardly ever work the way they do on TV, movies, and Call of Duty...

[Duelist]

To expand on the above: The Savage is a single-action, striker-fired pistol. It does not have a floating firing pin that is hit by a hammer, it has a linear striker powered by a coaxial striker spring. When the striker is in the forward, or fired, position, it protrudes past the breechface. (The lozenge-shaped hole for the striker pin in the cocking indicator is in theory supposed to prevent this, but it is in no way a positive safety and between dirt and tolerance stacking, I wouldn't trust it at all.)

http://i.imgur.com/sGEv07P.gif

That is such a cool gif! Mesmerizing. Seriously, I just spent 5 minutes watching the clock-like inner workings of a gun I've never held in real life.

mr Bowser- don't carry that gun. Carry your SIG.

[Dagga Boy]

I know you have a point but the obsolete firearms are what I personally enjoy using. Some gun is better than no gun.

Okay, you have not figured this place out, so I will help. You are wrong.....not a different opinion, just plain fucking wrong. Stop. It is not better than nothing. If you had nothing, it would help to make you make smart decisions. Your over inflated idea that you are going to stop a threat with that thing may convince your brain to actually attempt it in a crisis.......at which point, only God smiling on fools luck will save you and everyone else around from a tragedy. Lord knows I love old retro gun fighting guns. It is my passion and allows me a means to study the development of training doctrine for how to train good guys to kill evil people efficiently from an equipment perspective from various era's. I don't even shoot pre war stuff, little more than ever carry it with any level of serious intent.

So instead of being a weirdo, gun dork, play fantasy games....invest in some serious training to shoot that P-225 like a boss under truely adverse conditions. I carried one for years as an off duty gun and still is a favorite. Great CCW gun...now put the work in so you are an asset and not another problem inside of a problem.

I have zero issues with serious collectors (you may find that there are several folks here who qualify for that title), but I have a real issue with trying to make your hobby into something serious. Use of lethal force is quite serious and not the time to be screwing around and being cute, retro or trying to make yourself into some fantasy role playing game in public with serious consequences to everyone around you for your choices. I don't know how many shooting investigations you have been involved in, but from someone who has been through it several times...when they begin the deep anal investigation of your decision making on every level of choices you make and are making microscopic assessments of every single action, decision and choice applied to a reasonable man standard, ask yourself.....do I have enough lawyer money set aside to back this decision up to a bunch of cops and a district attorney's office.....and that is if you are perfect on the day. If you are not perfect with your choice of an antique, do you have enough time in life to do the incarceration time for your decisions that may have negatively affected others. If all the answers are yes....then continue in your little folly.

[Dagga Boy]

Also.....if you want to carry obsolete questionable stuff at home.....I could care less. What you do in your bedroom with guns or otherwise among adults is something where the consequences of choice are often well contained. I have a big issue when you expose the public to your fetishes.

[BillSWPA]

The Savage was way ahead of it's time. It can be carried safely with the hammer down on a live round. The safety is more positive than the 1903 Colt. It actually holds the striker back away from the sear. I know all of you are correct about the use of modern handguns. My Sig P225 is a modern handgun, I prefer to any Glock.

Then please carry the Sig. The P225 is an excellent handgun with some fans here. It will give you modern safety and reliability with a loaded chamber, 9mm+P stopping power, good sights, and fits a lot of hands well.

Others have addressed the drop safety issue, and this concerns me more than the other deficiencies of the gun. You don't want to be the subject of a news story about having the gun fall and discharge in the men's room even if you are lucky and only property damage results. These things ultimately reflect on all of us.

I am fascinated by those guns, but let's keep them in their proper place.

[Hideeho]

Here is a 1907 car. Mama is probably packing a 1907 Savage. Would you drive that car everyday? Would you drive that car at modern highway speeds? Guns, cars, and women from 1907 all need to be handled gently and get plenty of rest. Don't place high expectations on their abilities. Don't expect them to perform.

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[Lex Luthier]

Tam is probably one of the pre-eminent current scholars of these pistols, and she is gifting you with her knowledge. (She's one of the handgun editors of Shooting Illustrated, FYI.)

Nyeti is one of the finer civilian firearms instructors working, and is similarly giving freely of his skill, expertise, and decades of experience.
(Look up Darryl Bolke. He's an impressive, yet humble man. I hope to study with him in the next couple years, if he'll have me.)
Please do consider their words, as they really are offered in kindness.

That SiG of yours is a fine, fine pistol that ticks all the boxes. I'd like one myself one day, just because. The cost of a couple of good holsters, a couple thousand rounds of training ammunition, some spare springs & mags, and a good civilian class or two will be well worth your expense, especially if you ever need to use it.

And yes, that Savage is as cool as a ray-gun. Just not for safe use in today's legal or social environment.

[Tamara]

Tam is probably one of the pre-eminent current scholars of these pistols...

I don't know about all that, I just think they're cool. :)

[LSP972]

Here is a 1907 car. Mama is probably packing a 1907 Savage. Would you drive that car everyday? Would you drive that car at modern highway speeds? Guns, cars, and women from 1907 all need to be handled gently and get plenty of rest. Don't place high expectations on their abilities. Don't expect them to perform.

10603

And THAT, sports fans, about covers all of this.

Beautifully done, sir.

BTW, crew... I know Doug. He used to do M1 clinics in Mississippi; one of which I took grandson#1 and his buddy to. Excellent classes; Doug knows the Garand inside and out.

Yeah, he's WAY out of his lane on this. But he's not your basic shithead; just somewhat confused, methinks.

.

[Dagga Boy]

When I was posting all I could think about was the guy driving a model T in the fast lane on the tollway at 35 mph with a big grin thinking he is cool and encouraged by all the people honking and telling him he is number 1 with their middle fingers. It is cool to have a Model T, and when you drive it in the 4th of July parade, people will wave with all their fingers.

[HCM]

LSP,

I'm not saying he needs to go to EC QC, but I think in this context your friend Doug could get quite a bit out of a Tom Givens class.

[Ed L]

I carry it with no round in the chamber. I have practiced operating the slide so many times, I could do it blindfolded.

Okay, I am calling you out to Pfestivus:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22242-Happy-PFestivus-2016!-I-ve-got-a-lot-of-problems-with-you-people!/page85

[john c]

Are these pistols straight blowback, or is there any sort of locking mechanism?


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[Tamara]

Are these pistols straight blowback, or is there any sort of locking mechanism?

Theoretically the barrel rotates a few degrees* before allowing the breechblock/slide assembly to move to the rear. In practice, they're as near straight blowback as makes no nevermind.


*Watch the shape of the lugs change on that "x-ray" gif. The barrel doesn't move rearward at all; it just turns in place a tiny bit.

[LSP972]

LSP,

I'm not saying he needs to go to EC QC, but I think in this context your friend Doug could get quite a bit out of a Tom Givens class.

He's not my friend; I just know him. You're right, of course, but it ain't MY business...;)

.

[Doug Bowser]

Some of you are not very gentlemanly. I will carry what I want. I will also carry the P225. That's the end of it for me.

[LSP972]

Some of you are not very gentlemanly. I will carry what I want. I will also carry the P225. That's the end of it for me.

Gentlemanly? Doug, you released that genie with your post. Compared to the savages at GlockDerp, BARF-15.com, and other quality forums, the folks here are downright nice.

.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Some of you are not very gentlemanly. I will carry what I want. I will also carry the P225. That's the end of it for me.

You can lead a horse to water, and all that.

Mr. Bowser, I sincerely hope that life never makes you or others regret your decision.

[Jim Watson]

Doug, you might should read the Ayoob case file in the new American Handgunner.
Herbert Youngblood, who left jail with John Dillinger in the famous "soap bar gun" escape, let his mouth overload his ass and was arrested for failure to pay for chewing gum. The sheriff relieved him of his .38 auto but missed his .32 Savage. Youngblood drew it and shot the sheriff, the undersheriff, and a deputy. But with so little "stopping power" available, he was in turn shot by the sheriff, the undersheriff, the deputy, and the store clerk. Neither the sheriff nor Youngblood survived, but the sheriff was shooting while bleeding.

[Tamara]

Some of you are not very gentlemanly.

I reckon not.


I will carry what I want.

As long as you don't drop it in public and kill an Innocent bystander, I don't care what you carry.


That's the end of it for me.

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[Dagga Boy]

Some of you are not very gentlemanly. I will carry what I want. I will also carry the P225. That's the end of it for me.

I guess you are just here to educate us. Sorry.

[Sadmin]

I liked Road to Perdition too.

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[john c]

Some of you are not very gentlemanly. I will carry what I want. I will also carry the P225. That's the end of it for me.

Doug; I'm sorry you feel that way. I've enjoyed your posts on old guns. I like them a lot. I'm especially interested in classic .32s that you've been posting about. I wouldn't mind reading more about your posts. Just leave mention of carrying these old girls out of the posts to avoid riling up the natives. ;)

[Hideeho]

Doug,

I offer this as advice I give all my civilian friends. The first thing you need to learn is how to drop the gun. And I mean drop. Not bend down ever so slowly to gently place on ground. Drop it like a hot potato. Learn how to shoot it after you get good at dropping it. Reason, when the uniforms arrive at the scene of your shooting incident, you better drop quick. If you don't, you might get shot. Problem is you might be carrying a pistol that will fire when dropped. If that happens, someone might get hurt. You might get dead. Try to understand adrenaline and what would happen when officers heard your pistol fire on the drop. I think the biggest reason to have a drop safe firearm is to be able to drop when the uniforms arrive.

[Ed L]

Doug,

Reason, when the uniforms arrive at the scene of your shooting incident, you better drop quick.

You are assuming that he is going to be able to get a loaded gun in his hand if he needs it.

He carries chamber empty.

More likely you will be arriving at the scene to have an unarmed beaten victim describe how the attacker took his gun away while he was trying to draw it and chamber a round.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Ever hear someone say that if the law arrives and says: Drop it - that they will inform the law that they will slowly put the gun down as it is very expensive, blah, blah.

Wonder if they saw some training videos or demonstrations of how you can shoot someone as you are putting the gun down, even if you are holding it upside down?

Bang, Bang!

[Totem Polar]

I dunno. A lot of things in life are subtle, fluid and complex. I don't really see this issue as one of them.

Old guns = very cool.

Relying on old guns for anything remotely serious = uncool.

There are *at least* 3 people on this thread that have one of those Savages. For sure, two of them wouldn't go primary with theirs.

[Joe in PNG]

Wonder if they saw some training videos or demonstrations of how you can shoot someone as you are putting the gun down, even if you are holding it upside down?


Well, there was that one scene in "Tombstone"...

[BillSWPA]

Some of you are not very gentlemanly. I will carry what I want. I will also carry the P225. That's the end of it for me.

Let me be sure I understand you correctly: you state that you are carrying a .32 that is between a G26 and G19 in size, with the chamber empty, and that is not drop safe, and you believe we are not being "nice" because we tell you that is a bad decision?

I enjoyed the historical posts, but I tell people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.

[Doug Bowser]

Let me be sure I understand you correctly: you state that you are carrying a .32 that is between a G26 and G19 in size, with the chamber empty, and that is not drop safe, and you believe we are not being "nice" because we tell you that is a bad decision?

I enjoyed the historical posts, but I tell people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.

Using profanity on this site is not necessary. I believe I am safe with the Savage. I have fired it 500 times with 60 gr Hornady HP's. No malfunctions. It is my decision. For one thing I think it is cool carrying a handgun that was made the same year the Titanic sunk. All the negative remarks given here could be applied to the 1911. A LOT of folks carry 1911 pistols.

[Totem Polar]

All the negative remarks given here could be applied to the 1911. A LOT of folks carry 1911 pistols.

Uh... I don't believe that is true at all. The first part, I mean.

[HCM]

Using profanity on this site is not necessary. I believe I am safe with the Savage. I have fired it 500 times with 60 gr Hornady HP's. No malfunctions. It is my decision. For one thing I think it is cool carrying a handgun that was made the same year the Titanic sunk. All the negative remarks given here could be applied to the 1911. A LOT of folks carry 1911 pistols.

On the guns -
1) They don't carry those 1911's chamber empty. Chamber empty carry of pistols, whether by the Shanghai municipal police, the twentieth century draftee U.S. Military or by the Israelis was a compromise made necessary by equipment limitations and large numbers of minimally trained personnel. It's a "least bad" choice of necessity not an end state one should emulate.
2) Even an older 1911 can be made drop safe with a lighter firing pin and a proper firing pin spring.
3) While not the Jovian thunderbolt many claim it to be, (no handgun is) a .45 acp is significantly more effective than a .32 acp.

Old guns are a cool hobby. Target shooting is a cool hobby. I enjoy both, however, carrying a deadly weapon in public in defense on one's self and others is no hobby. It's as real and serious as it gets. It's no place for romantic notions or self delusion. Violence is ugly and quick.

You mentioned hunting in your other thread - apply the lessons of hunting regarding to how quick violence occurs and how hard living things will fight to stay alive, then imagine your mirror image is trying to hunt and kill you as you are trying to rack a round in the chamber and make a 20 yard head shot.

[Kanati]

Using profanity on this site is not necessary. I believe I am safe with the Savage. I have fired it 500 times with 60 gr Hornady HP's. No malfunctions. It is my decision. For one thing I think it is cool carrying a handgun that was made the same year the Titanic sunk. All the negative remarks given here could be applied to the 1911. A LOT of folks carry 1911 pistols.

You're not safe with it or any firearm. No gun is a magical ward off the things that go bump in the night by it's mere presence kind of talisman thing. That said, there are tools that can up your level of preparedness, and those that lower it. Your defensive choice is the latter. There is a wealth of real world no bullshit experience on this site; I'd seriously suggest swallowing your pride and taking that collective experience to heart.

[Tamara]

Using profanity on this site is not necessary.

You've been here two days. You have no idea what is or isn't necessary.


I believe I am safe with the Savage.

Some people believe they're Napoleon, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.


I have fired it 500 times with 60 gr Hornady HP's. No malfunctions.

I am extremely dubious of this claim.


It is my decision.

Yes it is.


For one thing I think it is cool carrying a handgun that was made the same year the Titanic sunk.

You are being fundamentally unserious.


All the negative remarks given here could be applied to the 1911.

This statement is factually incorrect.

Doug, you have set new speed records for being a major topic of discussion in PFestivus as well as getting onto my ignore list. You keep spreading that misinformation, though! Maybe someone will believe you and kill themselves or a loved one. Good day, sir.

[BillSWPA]

Unlike the Savage, 1911's are still made, and have evolved over time. They can be set up with tritium sights, crimson Trace Lasergrips, or whatever other sights you may want. They are drop safe as long as the firing pin spring is replaced at regular intervals, and a titanium firing pin and extra power firing pin spring is an easy extra layer of safety to install. They can be had with two different firing pin block mechanisms. Grip safeties and thumb safeties have improved. Holsters and replacement parts are plentiful. Maybe there are good reasons why the Savage stopped making their not so little .32 decades ago.

Doug, on the subject of holsters, unless you make your own, I cannot imagine you were able to find leather or Kydex that was molded to fit the gun and capable of retaining it through the molding. I would guess you are limited to Uncle Mike's or other inexpensive nylon?

Yes, what you carry is your choice, but if/when this choice bites you in the rear end, I fear it will reflect badly on people who carry guns as a whole.

[Dagga Boy]

Using profanity on this site is not necessary. I believe I am safe with the Savage. I have fired it 500 times with 60 gr Hornady HP's. No malfunctions. It is my decision. For one thing I think it is cool carrying a handgun that was made the same year the Titanic sunk. All the negative remarks given here could be applied to the 1911. A LOT of folks carry 1911 pistols.

Well, bless your heart.

[Kyle Reese]

Using profanity on this site is not necessary. I believe I am safe with the Savage. I have fired it 500 times with 60 gr Hornady HP's. No malfunctions. It is my decision. For one thing I think it is cool carrying a handgun that was made the same year the Titanic sunk. All the negative remarks given here could be applied to the 1911. A LOT of folks carry 1911 pistols.
Have a great day.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[Hideeho]

Doug,

Glad to see you are still out there. Maybe there is a chance you are considering the advice. Some additional points to consider from first hand experience:

1. My first armed encounter occurred one-week after graduating the police academy. Off-duty riding a train. A 28-year-old male sat next to me and immediately pressed an 8” chef’s knife into my right side. Told me to give him my money. Problem he had, I am left handed. I used my right hand to push away the knife and my left to draw my fully loaded Detective Special. If I needed to chamber a round, story would have ended differently. When carried, handguns always need to be loaded.

2. I have carried small caliber .32 pistols. When carrying them my personal rules of engagement were different then a larger caliber. The purpose was very close self-defense. See scenario #1. An ROE that calls for a small caliber head shot at 20 yards is bad. A personal-defense cartridge should be used at personal-defense distances. 20 yards is 20 yards too far.

3. Your ROE is too broad as to what armed encounters you will engage. When carrying a firearm for self-defense start with what I call the “Me and Mine” rule. The more you extend that rule, the broader the “circle of friends” and greater the distance you intend to protect, the greater the danger to you and others.

4. Nyeti tried to point out to you the legal ramifications. Let me try one more time. You are now on record as saying carrying a handgun from the days of the Titanic is cool. You do not want to be on the stand making that statement. But you already have and it can be found. That’s not going to play well in court.

5. Perception is reality during a gunfight. You will be displaying a handgun that looks like a POS, not a recognizable duty-weapon. When the good guys try to sort out the scene—before you had a chance to drop—your gun will draw bad attention. Most officers do not know Curio & Relic. They know good gun/bad gun.

6. Historical references are bad reasons to choose a modern self-defense firearm. Why stop at the Titanic? Why not the Civil War? I just finished reading Hamilton, why not a dueling pistol? If you want functioning history, brought up to modern standard, please consider a 1911 or a single action revolver.

[PNWTO]

Using profanity on this site is not necessary. I believe I am safe with the Savage. I have fired it 500 times with 60 gr Hornady HP's. No malfunctions. It is my decision. For one thing I think it is cool carrying a handgun that was made the same year the Titanic sunk. All the negative remarks given here could be applied to the 1911. A LOT of folks carry 1911 pistols.

So, I'm still a novice here, but who the fuck are you to behave like you are and whine? Prancing around with a willful ignorance of the reality of things and being bitchy to established and knowledgeable users? Where do you get off?

[Marko Kloos]

For one thing I think it is cool carrying a handgun that was made the same year the Titanic sunk.

Then you're not carrying a defensive tool, you're carrying jewelry. Get a watch made in 1912 and wear that, but for Pete's sake, get a modern, drop-safe pistol for carrying in public.

[Ed L]

Using profanity on this site is not necessary.

And just who the fuck are you?

Normally one would have to go to the Firing Line Forums to meet someone of your stature.

Guys, I think this is someone from an unnamed forum deliberately trolling, and doing a damn fine job of it.

[TGS]

And just who the fuck are you?

Normally one would have to go to the Firing Line Forums to meet someone of your stature.

Guys, I think this is someone from an unnamed forum deliberately trolling, and doing a damn fine job of it.

Nah, not with the other posts he's made.

It's just a misguided cruffler. Hanlon's Razor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor), all that.

[Malamute]

I googled his name. Hes a low impact presence in a few places I looked, and may be the author of a small book about Finnish Mosins used against the Russians in the Winter war (I didn't go into great detail looking at it ir the forum stuff I found).

I also think hes an out of place cruffler, with an average gun forum level of carry savvy about old guns and such. Most forums don't aspire to a very high or authoritative level of competence as we get spoiled on here.

[Willard]

I learned a lot about people from this thread. Pretty unflattering for the most part. Maybe a closed thread/thread lock would be appropriate?

[Ed L]

You have to realize that Doug Bower started spouting his nonsense just before the start of Pfestivus, a sort of verbal purge on pistol-forum. He was called out multiple times to enter the pfestivus thread but declined.

Some of the Pfestivus spirit carried over into this thread.

What he did was the equivalent of wearing an "I hate Bikers" T-shirt during Harley week in Sturgis.

[Lex Luthier]

We are all gun people. Some of us- many of us, really- love the old stuff.
But Mr. Bowser has misapprehended the focus of this forum, and the general POV of the membership (and certainly the staff).
A member I have come to respect knows him and vouches for him. Yet he still misses the point. It's been made kindly & gruffly, with terse verbiage, and with great detail.

This is a grand place to learn, but it is humbling, and many folks do not understand that one must be humble to learn some deeply valuable things.