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Mr_White
09-09-2016, 10:19 AM
Week 181: Hackathorn 3-Second Head Shot Standards

Results may be posted until October 9th, 2016.

Designed by: Ken Hackathorn
Range: 5 yards
Target: Three USPSA Metric or IDPA targets
Start Position: Ready or holstered, see below
Rounds Fired: 9

Targets are placed at least two feet apart shoulder to shoulder at a range of five yards. Par time is set to three seconds for each string. There are three strings of fire.

1. Fire exactly one shot at the head of each target, going from left to right.
2. Fire exactly one shot at the head of each target, going from right to left.
3. Fire exactly one shot at the head of each target, starting with the middle target, then the left and right targets in any order.

A round anywhere in the whole head (A/B zones) counts as a hit. Shots fired after the three-second par time count as misses. In total, you'll fire exactly nine rounds. Seven points or better, out of the nine possible, is a passing score.

Start position is shooter's choice of ready, holstered, or holstered and concealed. If you want to make it harder than that, try is SHO or WHO, lower the par time, or increase the distance. It's a short and quick drill - feel free to shoot it multiple times and/or increase the difficulty as you progress!

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Equipment used (pistol, holster, optional concealment garment if one was used)
Start position (ready, holstered, concealed)
Any variation you included (increased distance, SHO, par time, etc.)
Total number of points out of the possible nine
Anything you noticed

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

JHC
09-09-2016, 12:13 PM
Gonna race the G43 vs the G19 with KKM compensator. ;)

Mr_White
09-09-2016, 12:15 PM
Gonna race the G43 vs the G19 with KKM compensator. ;)

That's a great idea! I have been shooting my G43 a bit more lately and I'll probably try it on this drill. Fun! I like fun.

Duelist
09-09-2016, 03:32 PM
Excellent idea to run the tiny gun against bigger ones! I'll try my 642 or P32 against a 3913 against the SP2022. Should be fun, and interesting.

HopetonBrown
09-09-2016, 04:24 PM
I've shot this a few times with some friends of varying skill level. We start off from the ready. If they get at least 7/9 then it's from the holster. Then concealed. Then SHO from the ready, etc. You can't move to the next "level" until you get at least 7/9. So each guy gets challenged. I'm stuck at SHO concealed.

Mr_White
09-09-2016, 04:49 PM
I've shot this a few times with some friends of varying skill level. We start off from the ready. If they get at least 7/9 then it's from the holster. Then concealed. Then SHO from the ready, etc. You can't move to the next "level" until you get at least 7/9. So each guy gets challenged. I'm stuck at SHO concealed.

What's going to be after SHO concealed?

Luke
09-09-2016, 07:00 PM
Tactical ninja stars

HopetonBrown
09-09-2016, 07:17 PM
I haven't done it in awhile, I think my plan was 1) ready 2) holster 3) concealed 4) SHO ready 5) SHO holster 6) SHO concealed 7) WHO ready, etc. I was gonna just do a hand transfer for the WHO stages with a draw. If anyone can do that then the next level would be a true WHO draw. Maybe you can give that a shot, I'd like to see a vid of it!

I like the way Pannone does it where he grabs the butt of the gun WHO (so now the gun is upside down in your grip), then places the gun, slide down, in whatever that crease is called where your thigh meets the pelvis to change grip.

MVS
09-10-2016, 11:20 AM
Equipment used (pistol, holster, optional concealment garment if one was used) G19 w/RMR, Fricke AA, t shirt concealment
Start position (ready, holstered, concealed) 1st try; Low Ready 2nd try; Holster
Any variation you included (increased distance, SHO, par time, etc.)
Total number of points out of the possible nine 1st try; 9 for 9 all A's (USPSA), 2nd try 8 for 9
Anything you noticed Easy from low ready, pushing my current limits on from the holster. The third string was where I couldn't make par.

GAP
09-10-2016, 11:37 AM
Glock 26 - JM Custom IWB3 - T-shirt

Passed from low ready and from the holster 9/9, all strings under 3 seconds.

I probably shoot too slowly because I can't allow myself any misses and still call it a pass.

Duelist
09-10-2016, 06:46 PM
Ran this 4 times with my SP2022, from an open top leather holster, no concealment. 125gr moly coated lead over 3.5gr Bullseye. My timer app doesn't have a delay, and I was alone, so after the first dismal run, I added a half second to the par time to allow for straightening up. 1 out of the first three runs was on time and had no misses. 4th run, dropped the par time to 3.3 seconds. All strings were within par time. 2 shots were just low of the head. 7/9, pass.

642, Galco horsehide pocket, hand on gun butt to start. 125gr +P Winchester. Only 1 run- there's a football game image for! 2 clear misses, 2 low hits, 1 late shot.

P32- 2 runs. More fun to shoot this than the 642 with +P. Both runs were nearly identical. Ran from ready, since I haven't bought or made anything decent for it. Misses and low and right hits were the norm, but each run had at least 2/3 hits. 2 were late, though.

Luke
09-10-2016, 10:19 PM
Ran this 4 times with my SP2022, from an open top leather holster, no concealment. 125gr moly coated lead over 3.5gr Bullseye. My timer app doesn't have a delay, and I was alone, so after the first dismal run, I added a half second to the par time to allow for straightening up. 1 out of the first three runs was on time and had no misses. 4th run, dropped the par time to 3.3 seconds. All strings were within par time. 2 shots were just low of the head. 7/9, pass.

642, Galco horsehide pocket, hand on gun butt to start. 125gr +P Winchester. Only 1 run- there's a football game image for! 2 clear misses, 2 low hits, 1 late shot.

P32- 2 runs. More fun to shoot this than the 642 with +P. Both runs were nearly identical. Ran from ready, since I haven't bought or made anything decent for it. Misses and low and right hits were the norm, but each run had at least 2/3 hits. 2 were late, though.



Try this app man, I used it for a long time before I bought a real timer.

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp81/hook_setter/6F813D1C-3A1F-4DE0-8E48-1F7365D202D3_zpsv4n2yhv6.png (http://s400.photobucket.com/user/hook_setter/media/6F813D1C-3A1F-4DE0-8E48-1F7365D202D3_zpsv4n2yhv6.png.html)

Duelist
09-10-2016, 10:26 PM
Try this app man, I used it for a long time before I bought a real timer.

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp81/hook_setter/6F813D1C-3A1F-4DE0-8E48-1F7365D202D3_zpsv4n2yhv6.png (http://s400.photobucket.com/user/hook_setter/media/6F813D1C-3A1F-4DE0-8E48-1F7365D202D3_zpsv4n2yhv6.png.html)

Thanks, man. Is that on the Apple App Store?

Never mind, I found it. Thanks!

JHC
09-11-2016, 10:46 AM
Shot from OWB not concealed

G19 with KKM COMP, 9 hits, comfortably within par.

G43 I got 8 hits with 1 hit on the last string at 3.02 sec.

Luke
09-11-2016, 03:43 PM
Decided to shoot this twice, but modified. I knew the 3 second par was to slow and after hearing of one PF member modifying it to suit him, I decided to as well.




First run

2 on each head. (18 rounds total)

18/18 hits

Passed with time and hits. Had one really close him on the middle head, but it broke the line!


http://youtu.be/c1xIZ39Iu8Q


Second run

1 round on each, TWICE.

15/18 hits (2 misses of which 1 was over time lol double whammy!)


http://youtu.be/V1CUgvQ4QSc






Im sort about the vertical filming :( by myself and this was easiest.

Run 2 should have been a passing run, just got sloppy. Only shot these once but am 110% certain run 2 could be done clean.

Clusterfrack
09-12-2016, 03:43 PM
Glock 43, Ameriglo Operator sights, TTI +1 mag, Raven Morrigan holster AIWB under a synthetic polo shirt.

String 1: 1.49,2.26,2.82 BBB
String 2: 1.44,2.00,2.68 AAA
String 3: 1.40,1.90,2.52 BAA
Pass

I was pretty happy with these results, especially given that I've been neglecting practice with this gun. First shots were frustratingly slow, but that's what it took to guarantee an upper A/B hit.

Mr_White
09-12-2016, 04:43 PM
I love all the action in this thread and the variations everyone is trying!

Mr_White
09-12-2016, 04:44 PM
Equipment used: Pistol-Forum.com G43

Start position: Ready
Any variation you included: N/A (basic 5 yard version from the ready)
Total number of points out of the possible nine: 9/9 PASS

Start position: Ready
Any variation you included: 10 yards
Total number of points out of the possible nine: 8/9 PASS

Start position: Ready
Any variation you included: 15 yards
Total number of points out of the possible nine: 8/9 PASS

Start position: Ready
Any variation you included: 20 yards
Total number of points out of the possible nine: 3/9 BIG FAIL

Anything you noticed: Sure ran out of time for dat trigger at 20 yards...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SmRT4JE8yE

Mr_White
09-12-2016, 05:07 PM
Equipment used: Gen3 G34, concealed in a Keeper under a polo shirt
Start position: Holstered and concealed
Any variation you included: 25 yards!

Attempt 1
Total number of points out of the possible nine: Not sure, but it sucked - FAIL
Anything you noticed: Shot artificially - stingy and overly careful in this case. Ended up with a couple overtime shots and bad hits to boot. Artificially is a dumb way to shoot, whether trying hard to go fast, grasping tightly at accuracy, or 'slowing down to get your hits.' It's just a bad intention.

Attempt 2
Total number of points out of the possible nine: 8/9 (9 hits, but 1 was .08 overtime) - PASS!!!
Anything you noticed: Oh yeah! Shot the way I should have in the first place. I just did it and didn't try to force anything - including toward the careful end of the spectrum. I just moved the gun and worked the trigger so it fired as it was stopping on the target spot (not even really stopped, it felt more like firing while stopping.) Made my day to put it together on this drill, even if it was the second attempt. I found this to be a very demanding task to perform under three seconds, and three times in a row or close to it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcA7mw7IOCU

backtrail540
09-12-2016, 06:05 PM
Glock 17 rtf2 in a JMCK wing claw, under a polo
Holstered and concealed

5yds - 9/9 pass
string 1 - 3/3 pass 2.69 - 1.59, .58, .52
string 2 - 3/3 pass 2.86 - 1.71, .56, .59
string 3 - 3/3 pass 2.94 - 1.6, .6, .74

7yds - 7/9 pass(while a pass by the standard rule I like to clean it to pass to my standard)
string 1 - 3/3 pass 2.85 - 1.69, .64, .52
string 2 - 3/3 pass 2.96 - 1.66, .65, .65
string 3 - 1/3 fail 3.18 - 1.74, .63, .81 ( I transitioned too far and pulled the shot off target on the first transition after the middle target then had my last shot over time resulting in 1/3)

I was really intrigued by Luke doing the 2 shots per so I tried that just to see what I could do. I knew I couldn't beat 3 seconds but went for it anyway.

5yds, 2 shots per concealed under a polo as per the other runs
string 1 - 3.54 6/6 1.7, .3, .48, .22, .54, .30
string 2 - 3.3 6/6 1.57, .24, .52, .22, .55, .20
string 3 - 3.4 4/6 1.55, .26, .51, .22, .62, .24 (missed 1 on middle target and 1 on the first transition)


I had just come off a month or so hiatus from any type of shooting, save dry practice. I had been feeling burnt out and just haven't felt any motivation to get to the range so I took some time away to refuel my want. Today was great and I was happy out there again. It was my first session with the JMCK wing claw, and it went well. I'm really digging this holster, as it conceals as good as any of the other appendix offerings I own - without the bulk that some have at the belt line. I really like the idea and will be buying a Dark Star iwb w/ claw, when funds allow, to compare it too. Overall I had a blast and didn't shoot as poorly as I had expected so i left with a smile!

Doc_Glock
09-13-2016, 10:06 AM
Equipment used: Gen3 G34, concealed in a Keeper under a polo shirt
Start position: Holstered and concealed
Any variation you included: 25 yards!

Attempt 1
Total number of points out of the possible nine: Not sure, but it sucked - FAIL
Anything you noticed: Shot artificially - stingy and overly careful in this case. Ended up with a couple overtime shots and bad hits to boot. Artificially is a dumb way to shoot, whether trying hard to go fast, grasping tightly at accuracy, or 'slowing down to get your hits.' It's just a bad intention.

Attempt 2
Total number of points out of the possible nine: 8/9 (9 hits, but 1 was .08 overtime) - PASS!!!
Anything you noticed: Oh yeah! Shot the way I should have in the first place. I just did it and didn't try to force anything - including toward the careful end of the spectrum. I just moved the gun and worked the trigger so it fired as it was stopping on the target spot (not even really stopped, it felt more like firing while stopping.) Made my day to put it together on this drill, even if it was the second attempt. I found this to be a very demanding task to perform under three seconds, and three times in a row or close to it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcA7mw7IOCU


Damn dude!

Mr_White
09-13-2016, 03:02 PM
Damn dude!

Thanks, I was pretty stoked with that one.

Duelist
09-17-2016, 10:39 PM
Well, this week, I got a new holster for my 3913, a Blade Tech Nano. I decided to run this DotW again with that gun.

First run, I did from the holster under a shirt. It was a dismal series of failures:
string 1 was 1.96, 3.24, 4.65.
String 2 was 2.06, 3.13, 3.79.
String 3 was 2.04, 2.96, 3.65.
All shots were clean hits, and the right side target had all 3 hits in 1 inch. But, with 5/9 shots after par, that left me a score of 4/9. Dismal failure.

Decided to give myself a brake on the second run, and just did it from compressed ready.
String 1 was 1.36, 2.44, 3.40.
String 2 was 1.06, 1.81, 2.69.
String 3 was 1.52, 2.69, 3.47.
The left hand target had only two holes. I suspect that it was the third shot on the second string, but I am not sure. That would be 6/9.

In short, I actually missed once, but at least I was slow.

scw2
09-24-2016, 02:51 PM
Ran this on Sept 17 from AIWB. Unable at the public range to set up 3 targets that wide, so I compromised using smaller 2" dots at 3 yards.

First attempt:
String 1: 1.81 (H), 0.66 (H), 0.61 (M) = 3.08 sec
String 2: 1.81 (H), 0.62 (H), 0.65 (H) = 3.08 sec
String 3: 1.73 (M), 0.43 (M), 0.59 (M) = 2.75 sec

Observations - moving in one direction only felt pretty natural. String 3 going Mid, left, right was really different, led to shooting too fast and visually not seeing things well and a breakdown in clean trigger presses.


Tried it again, trying to push speed on the first two strings but pull back on string 3...

String 1: 1.86 (H), 0.50 (H), 0.51 (H) = 2.87 sec
String 2: 1.71 (M), 0.45 (H), 0.63 (M) = 2.79 sec
String 3: 1.87 (M), 0.56 (H), 0.61 (M) = 3.04 sec

Tons of misses this time. I think the hardest transition was shot 3 on string 3 due to the change up in direction and size of transition. Will occasionally mix that type of shooting pattern in dry fire, especially since I do a lot of work with 3 target arrays.

10783