Talo Glock 43 & Brass to face

[Ed L]

I unexpectedly picked up a Talo edition glock 43 today and brought it to the range.

The gun has a rear U notch and a front pro-glo sight and a very nice trigger: http://www.taloinc.com/glock-firearms/glock-43-glopro

I gleaned and ,ubed it and brought it to the range. I ran less than 50 rounds through it consisting of Blazer Brass, Federal HST 124 grain standard velocity and Federal HST 147 standard velocity. Out of that low amount of rounds I got hit about 6 times with Brass to the face or head with every type of ammo.

I don't think I have the patience to play the send it back and forth to Glock game.

[Dagga Boy]

Well, good to see that some things in the world have not changed. This is still an issue....and if anyone was getting a gun with issues straight out of the box, it is you......;)

[Totem Polar]

Man, I dunno... I have the exact same model G43, and mine is the most agreeable Glock I've owned, outside of maybe a Gen2 19. Luck of the draw, I guess.

[Kanati]

I've got a total of 3 G43's, (one for my wife, one for me, and one as a spare) and haven't had an extraction hiccup with any of them.....yet. The G19 I bought a few months back did the exact same thing as your 43, Ed; consistent BTF from the first time I shot it. I was able to resolve my G19 issues by following the steps listed in the sticky. Don't know if the parts listed in there are available for the 43 tho.

I don't know that it will do much if anything for your BTF problem, but I've found that in my hands, the 43's like to be run a a god bit wetter than other Glocks. A healthy dose of lube cleared up issues I had with picking up the 1st round in a mag when running with a +1 in the tube.

Sorry to hear you're dealing with the BTF thing, it does suck.

[psalms144.1]

Which brings us back to the ultimate truth of GLOCK - they're prone to misbehave through tolerance stacking. Most are OK to excellent, but the ones that don't work out of the box will likely cause you a 10 point blood pressure increase as you attempt to figure out why. Remember, GLOCKs are not precision instruments assembled by folks who are experts in fitting pieces together - they're the firearms equivalent of legos. Grab a frame, grab the guts, put them together. Grab a slide, barrel and slide guts, put them together. Put the slide on the frame, put it in the box - done. This allows GLOCK to produce a pistol at a price point significantly below what has been "normal," but it produces a pistol where all the legos need to fit together right, or strange things will occur...

[blues]

Which brings us back to the ultimate truth of GLOCK - they're prone to misbehave through tolerance stacking. Most are OK to excellent, but the ones that don't work out of the box will likely cause you a 10 point blood pressure increase as you attempt to figure out why. Remember, GLOCKs are not precision instruments assembled by folks who are experts in fitting pieces together - they're the firearms equivalent of legos. Grab a frame, grab the guts, put them together. Grab a slide, barrel and slide guts, put them together. Put the slide on the frame, put it in the box - done. This allows GLOCK to produce a pistol at a price point significantly below what has been "normal," but it produces a pistol where all the legos need to fit together right, or strange things will occur...

I'd argue, (moving the Legos of your post around a bit), that the "ultimate truth of Glock" is that most are excellent (but since nothing is perfect the rest of your post is on the money). Speaking from both my own experience with them since 1988 as well as the outfits I worked for and alongside.

[Nephrology]

Which brings us back to the ultimate truth of GLOCK - they're prone to misbehave through tolerance stacking. Most are OK to excellent, but the ones that don't work out of the box will likely cause you a 10 point blood pressure increase as you attempt to figure out why. Remember, GLOCKs are not precision instruments assembled by folks who are experts in fitting pieces together - they're the firearms equivalent of legos. Grab a frame, grab the guts, put them together. Grab a slide, barrel and slide guts, put them together. Put the slide on the frame, put it in the box - done. This allows GLOCK to produce a pistol at a price point significantly below what has been "normal," but it produces a pistol where all the legos need to fit together right, or strange things will occur...

Are most other modern pistols manufactured differently? Glock does put the serial number on matched slides, barrels and frames; but I have no idea how much if any fitting of those parts there is involved. I also have no idea how true this is of other modern pistols (the 1911 being an exception, of course). No idea of Beretta or SIG or H&K are hand fitting their guns to any degree...

[RJ]

Are most other modern pistols manufactured differently? Glock does put the serial number on matched slides, barrels and frames; but I have no idea how much if any fitting of those parts there is involved. I also have no idea how true this is of other modern pistols (the 1911 being an exception, of course). No idea of Beretta or SIG or H&K are hand fitting their guns to any degree...

My ego is very interested in this.

It would be a mighty blow if my Heckler and Koch firearm was *sniff* assembled like a...a...Glock. :cool:

[Dagga Boy]

My ego is very interested in this.

It would be a mighty blow if my Heckler and Koch firearm was *sniff* assembled like a...a...Glock. :cool:

You will notice there is no sticky on how to resolve your HK extraction problems, accuracy issues, magazine spring guide for what springs and followers to use. This is a clue.

By the way....I also have one of the last, best, fully and 100% made in Austria G-19's. It is a gun I will not sell. There is a reason for this.

[navyman8903]

All of the Glocks I've fired recently have had ejection issues. I literally sold my Gen4 G19 today because I just don't need that in my life. Especially when the old beat up Beretta 92FS Centurion I bought around the same time ejects perfectly.

The only glock I've fired in the past year or so that ejected properly was indeed the G43 at a Rent-a-range. I'm starting to think Glock forgot how to Glock, and I'm not going to give them anymore money until they get their shit together. I love the 9mm glocks.....but they gotta work right.

[blues]

You will notice there is no sticky on how to resolve your HK extraction problems, accuracy issues, magazine spring guide for what springs and followers to use. This is a clue.

By the way....I also have one of the last, best, fully and 100% made in Austria G-19's. It is a gun I will not sell. There is a reason for this.

My Gen 2 (12/88) G-19 has been perfect. Other than a mandatory trigger replacement the only thing I've ever done is replace the recoil spring with another OEM.

My 1995 or 1996 G-26 has only ever had the mandatory trigger change.

Both Austrian made and will accompany me to the crematorium. ;)

[RJ]

You will notice there is no sticky on how to resolve your HK extraction problems, accuracy issues, magazine spring guide for what springs and followers to use. This is a clue.

By the way....I also have one of the last, best, fully and 100% made in Austria G-19's. It is a gun I will not sell. There is a reason for this.

Copy.

Or match barrels.

Or Apex triggers.

:)


But seriously, I'd have no problem shooting a Glock. Unfortunately I am one of those who could not get their head around the grip angle.

But by reputation, it does seem hard to beat as a plastic people popper, as they say. Reliable, accurate, simple, easy to maintain, broad industry support, fantastic marketing.

If I knew what I know now in 2013, preparing to purchase my first ever handgun, it's very possible I should have bought two G19s. I'd have to learn to shoot the grip angle, but I'd sure have a lot of practice ammo. :cool:

[psalms144.1]

I'd argue, (moving the Legos of your post around a bit), that the "ultimate truth of Glock" is that most are excellent (but since nothing is perfect the rest of your post is on the money). Speaking from both my own experience with them since 1988 as well as the outfits I worked for and alongside.Blues - I said "OK to excellent." JHC will tell you that literally dozens he's bought in the last 5-6 years have been flawless. I had five out of five unreliable, unfixable G19s in a 12 month period late 2010-late 2011. So, I'm willing to give GLOCK the benefit of the doubt that MOST are at least OK.

On the other hand, I would be willing to bet that the OVERWHELMING majority of GLOCKs never get shot enough by people savvy enough to realize that BTF isn't a good thing. 10 rounds to be sure it goes bang, then into the sock drawer...

[blues]

Blues - I said "OK to excellent." JHC will tell you that literally dozens he's bought in the last 5-6 years have been flawless. I had five out of five unreliable, unfixable G19s in a 12 month period late 2010-late 2011. So, I'm willing to give GLOCK the benefit of the doubt that MOST are at least OK.

On the other hand, I would be willing to bet that the OVERWHELMING majority of GLOCKs never get shot enough by people savvy enough to realize that BTF isn't a good thing. 10 rounds to be sure it goes bang, then into the sock drawer...

Yeah, I'm willing to concede that my experience lies primarily with the older generations and perhaps the newer Glocks are not up to the same standard, (which is a shame). Didn't intend to come across as snarky and apologize if I gave that impression.

[Totem Polar]

By the way....I also have one of the last, best, fully and 100% made in Austria G-19's. It is a gun I will not sell. There is a reason for this.
Threads like this almost make me wish I'd kept my boringly reliable Gen2 19. Except—and I've told this story here before—I ended up trading that G19, maybe a half dozen +2 magazines (17 round) and 500 rounds of Federal 124gr hydra-shok at the onset of the 1994 Clinton AWB panic for...

THREE LE trade in 3" RB model 65s. I still have one, my dad has another, and one went to my then best friend, unfortunately KIA in langham province Afghanistan. No idea where that 65 ended up. Sticker on each 65 was something like $279, but panic buying was kind to those 5 or 6 mags and 500 rounds of lead wrapped around a post.

So, no Gen 2 19.

[Ed L]

Well, good to see that some things in the world have not changed. This is still an issue....and if anyone was getting a gun with issues straight out of the box, it is you......;)

Gee, Daryl, thanks for your support :)

Seriously, if I could simply buy an Apex extractor for it, I would. But Apex does not make extractors for it,; so I am going to dump this one.

[Dagga Boy]

Threads like this almost make me wish I'd kept my boringly reliable Gen2 19. Except—and I've told this story here before—I ended up trading that G19, maybe a half dozen +2 magazines (17 round) and 500 rounds of Federal 124gr hydra-shok at the onset of the 1994 Clinton AWB panic for...

THREE LE trade in 3" RB model 65s. I still have one, my dad has another, and one went to my then best friend, unfortunately KIA in langham province Afghanistan. No idea where that 65 ended up. Sticker on each 65 was something like $279, but panic buying was kind to those 5 or 6 mags and 500 rounds of lead wrapped around a post.

So, no Gen 2 19.

I would say you made a good decision. 3" 65's bring better than Glock money all day, and you set three people up with great guns. I originally bought my wife a Glock 19 which she immediettl said "No" to after brass in the face issues (she was a left hand limp wrister, so I didn't really blame the gun wholly on that one). She used a 3" Model 65 from that day until her death and it served her well as an only gun for a non gun person, and she shot it really well. It is now my daughters and a prized possession. Sorry you lost your friend and the gun that would have been nice to get back as a god way to remember him.


Gee, Daryl, thanks for your support :)

Seriously, if I could simply buy an Apex extractor for it, I would. But Apex does not make extractors for it,; so I am going to dump this one.

You had to know I was going to mention your curse.;).


Here is my Glock take....I have a long history with them. I won't buy them anymore. When I started hearing Glock LE reps who I deeply respected start talking about tolerance stacking, problems with sub contracted parts, bad runs of parts, machining issues, etc...I was done. Glock USA is simply the Bushmaster of pistols. You never heard this kind of stuff with the old wholly Austrian guns. Glock is not the first, nor will they be the last to have issues when moving production out of their original European facilities. Sometimes, this can go okay....usually, not. Glock is making money hand over foot doing things the way the are doing them. Doing it right is no longer a concern. They have figured out that low bid American LE purchasers are willing to be T&E labs, and the US public isn't much concerned and is happy to have a gun they can "fix" themselves with Internet purchased armorers skills and a plethora of parts they can put in. Other companies have not sacrificed their Euro level QC process, but nobody really seems to care that the guns work correctly and they are doing the T&E in house versus with the customers, as they are not as financially successful.

[blues]

That is truly sad to hear. I'll count myself as fortunate and look elsewhere if and when I am in the market to add another pistol.

[LSP972]

Here is my Glock take....I have a long history with them. I won't buy them anymore. When I started hearing Glock LE reps who I deeply respected start talking about tolerance stacking, problems with sub contracted parts, bad runs of parts, machining issues, etc...I was done. Glock USA is simply the Bushmaster of pistols. You never heard this kind of stuff with the old wholly Austrian guns. Glock is not the first, nor will they be the last to have issues when moving production out of their original European facilities. Sometimes, this can go okay....usually, not. Glock is making money hand over foot doing things the way the are doing them. Doing it right is no longer a concern. They have figured out that low bid American LE purchasers are willing to be T&E labs, and the US public isn't much concerned and is happy to have a gun they can "fix" themselves with Internet purchased armorers skills and a plethora of parts they can put in. Other companies have not sacrificed their Euro level QC process, but nobody really seems to care that the guns work correctly and they are doing the T&E in house versus with the customers, as they are not as financially successful.

Yeah, I felt that way as well. Still do. Your statements here are 100% correct. But I'm in a kind of bind now, as you know, so I needed to do SOMETHING. If this new G26 has any issues like you mentioned, I'll just get a P2000SK like we discussed. I'm hoping, however, it doesn't. Like you said, I too feel that the G26 is the most CONSISTENT/well-working pistol they have ever produced. We'll see.

Say... did you get the e-mail I sent regarding the other subject?

.

[Nephrology]

For what it's worth, I've been very satisfied with the aftermarket solutions to the problems I've had. Weak ejection in my 2 G17s (3rd and 4th gen) was promptly fixed with an HRED; they both will shuck brass predictably 3-5ft to my 3:30; even weaker imported 115gr stuff. My older G19 required an ejector update but it is performing robustly now as well.

[Dagga Boy]

For what it's worth, I've been very satisfied with the aftermarket solutions to the problems I've had. Weak ejection in my 2 G17s (3rd and 4th gen) was promptly fixed with an HRED; they both will shuck brass predictably 3-5ft to my 3:30; even weaker imported 115gr stuff. My older G19 required an ejector update but it is performing robustly now as well.

The fact that you need to buy an HRED or some combo with an APEX extractor and silly games with ejector combos is a gigantic red flag that something is wrong. An entire cottage industry built around Glock not giving two f$cks if the extraction and ejection portion of the cycle of operations is important.

[HCM]

Problem G43? Feed it to your dog ...... Luckily not my photo ;-)

10309

[Sigfan26]

The fact that you need to buy an HRED or some combo with an APEX extractor and silly games with ejector combos is a gigantic red flag that something is wrong. An entire cottage industry built around Glock not giving two f$cks if the extraction and ejection portion of the cycle of operations is important.

If they'd lower the ejection port... That'd be amazing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[M2CattleCo]

Glocks have always done that to some extent. I had a 2nd gen 17 that did it before I even had the internet.

I'm not the type to try to tinker around with it either. Other guns don't do that...

[StraitR]

The fact that you need to buy an HRED or some combo with an APEX extractor and silly games with ejector combos is a gigantic red flag that something is wrong. An entire cottage industry built around Glock not giving two f$cks if the extraction and ejection portion of the cycle of operations is important.

I made the exact same point in the 17M thread.

[Dagga Boy]

Problem G43? Feed it to your dog ...... Luckily not my photo ;-)

10309

I do not know what it is, but dogs fricking love chewing Glocks. Probably using Chinese kibble in the polymer mix. All of the original chopped Glocks we did way back in the early 90's were dog chew victims. The first was actually a G-23 that looked like that....and got cut and a G27 magazine fitted the week the G27 was released.

[Kirk]

So weird to me.

I'm not a Glock fan boy AT ALL, I love custom CZs and 1911s because I love gun games. However, I've owned about 25 different Glocks from Gen 3 to Gen 4, primarily all 9mm, and everyone of them goes bang, shoots very accurately, and feed reliably. I tend to only see complaints on various gun forums.my original carry G19 had 20k through it with no issues. My G43 will eat that much the rest of the year and I'd be shocked if it had issues

[Dagga Boy]

So weird to me.

I'm not a Glock fan boy AT ALL, I love custom CZs and 1911s because I love gun games. However, I've owned about 25 different Glocks from Gen 3 to Gen 4, primarily all 9mm, and everyone of them goes bang, shoots very accurately, and feed reliably. I tend to only see complaints on various gun forums.my original carry G19 had 20k through it with no issues. My G43 will eat that much the rest of the year and I'd be shocked if it had issues

I have several Glocks with over 50,000 rounds through them with zero malfunctions. They are totally capable of making stellar guns with pure reliability in a souless disposable package. The problem is they have also managed to screw that ability up. For all of those "perfect" guns, I have also owned several with some significant issues, and I am talking sell immediately level,of significant issues. One, couldn't even be sold because it was such an abortion that even the Glock LE rep photo'd and documented it as one of those guns "we have heard rumors of, but never seen". Well, contrary to the factory line of "limp wristing" (I was told that after shooting 250,000 malfunction free rounds with 9mm Glocks that I was now limp wristing and causing the issues in my gun.......yeah, right), there are some complete fricking abortions coming out of Glock. I honestly gave up on rolling the dice. I am likely just harbor img because when I finally settled on my "end all, be all" retirement gun, it turned out to be one of the biggest piles of crap I ever owned. Nicknamed the "Spawn of Satan", it was a test bed for the APEX extractor. Overall, I think Glock makes a good gun and recommend them, own them, and like them. With that said, I am very disappointed in some of their business practices.

[Kirk]

I have several Glocks with over 50,000 rounds through them with zero malfunctions. They are totally capable of making stellar guns with pure reliability in a souless disposable package. The problem is they have also managed to screw that ability up. For all of those "perfect" guns, I have also owned several with some significant issues, and I am talking sell immediately level,of significant issues. One, couldn't even be sold because it was such an abortion that even the Glock LE rep photo'd and documented it as one of those guns "we have heard rumors of, but never seen". Well, contrary to the factory line of "limp wristing" (I was told that after shooting 250,000 malfunction free rounds with 9mm Glocks that I was now limp wristing and causing the issues in my gun.......yeah, right), there are some complete fricking abortions coming out of Glock. I honestly gave up on rolling the dice. I am likely just harbor img because when I finally settled on my "end all, be all" retirement gun, it turned out to be one of the biggest piles of crap I ever owned. Nicknamed the "Spawn of Satan", it was a test bed for the APEX extractor. Overall, I think Glock makes a good gun and recommend them, own them, and like them. With that said, I am very disappointed in some of their business practices.

That all makes a lot of sense. I really wish HK had a VP9 that didn't have the paddle. I'd buy one to run in Limited from AIWB for the heck of it

[Dagga Boy]

That all makes a lot of sense. I really wish HK had a VP9 that didn't have the paddle. I'd buy one to run in Limited from AIWB for the heck of it

The paddle is a huge benefit in my book, and I cut my teeth on 1911's, SIG's and have a lot of rounds through Glocks. Never found the transition an issue and we never had an issue with my SWAT guys who carried HK's in SWAT and SIG's on patrol. Heck, we had more issues with officers hitting the magazine release on SIGs instead of the de-cocker than we did with issues with the paddle mag release. It was also a HUGE improvement over accidently released magazines in the holster.

[Tango]

Glock makes reliable platforms, Glock makes accurate platforms. The rub comes in that NOW in 2016 not all of their guns are accurate/reliable and a host of after market parts MAY be necessary to get a Glock running. That is in stark contrast to where the company's products were in 1995.

The same gremlin chasing scenarios that Glock guys used to laugh at 1911 guys is now occurring. With that and Colt/Springfield putting out outstanding 1911s, the script has almost been flipped. Surreal indeed!

[LSP972]

Glock makes reliable platforms, Glock makes accurate platforms. The rub comes in that NOW in 2016 not all of their guns are accurate/reliable and a host of after market parts MAY be necessary to get a Glock running. That is in stark contrast to where the company's products were in 1995.

The same gremlin chasing scenarios that Glock guys used to laugh at 1911 guys is now occurring. Surreal indeed!

Well said... and SO correct...

.

[HCM]

Well said... and SO correct...

.

2016 = Colt Lightweight Commander > G26 :-)

[Backspin]

FWIW, I had BTF issues with my G43 for about 200 rounds. BTF went away, and the gun ejects fairly consistently now--about 4 feet to 3o'clock .

However, I've had a slew of premature slide lock-backs, particularly recently. Thought it was my thumb hitting the slide stop in recoil, until it locked to the rear with my thumb completely away from the slide stop. Turns out I have an "old" slide stop (part# 33730). Frustrating that the gun is less than 2 years old and is already having updated parts made (the horrible stock connector being another one).

[Dagga Boy]

FWIW, I had BTF issues with my G43 for about 200 rounds. BTF went away, and the gun ejects fairly consistently now--about 4 feet to 3o'clock .

However, I've had a slew of premature slide lock-backs, particularly recently. Thought it was my thumb hitting the slide stop in recoil, until it locked to the rear with my thumb completely away from the slide stop. Turns out I have an "old" slide stop (part# 33730). Frustrating that the gun is less than 2 years old and is already having updated parts made (the horrible stock connector being another one).

So it sounds like it is exactly what we have come to accept as totally okay.

[ST911]

One of the things that frustrates these issues is a lack of common definition and inclusion criteria for the "BTF" label. Depending on who is speaking, every Glock I own has it, none of them do, or some do in a given set of circumstances. Several other manufacturers have it as well, depending on what we're talking about. So I ask...

What is "BTF?"
How often does it need to occur to earn the label?
If a certain gun does BTF with...
...only certain loads,
...only certain shooters,
...or only certain shooters with certain loads, is it included?
What about the same questions applied to erratic ejection?
Is consistent ejection a direction other than 2:00-5:00 BTF or erratic? Is it okay?
If we arrive at a definition and a gun has a BTF or erratic ejection condition, but does not experience stoppages, is it defective?

I believe that we are all seeing some things, but are not categorizing and reporting them in the same way.

[1911Nut]

I have a TALO model G43 as noted by the OP. I have only used 124 gr. ammo in it, but it has been from several manufacturers and a couple of handloads with both FMJ and JHP bullets. Never had any kind of problem with it, including BTF. I installed a Glocktriggers.com G43 trigger in it, and it made it much easier to shoot for me.

I am not a "power user" of the Glock platform like many on this forum, but have a few rounds downrange in the G43, G26, G19, G17, G34 (2), G36, G20SF, G21SF, and G21. All But the G43 and the G21 have been Gen 3. I have attended training classes with them and shot them in quite a few IDPA and steel matches. The only one I ever had problems with was the G36, which was the first one I owned. I truly believe 99% of the problem was operator-induced, and after I got myself lined out, the pistol shot fine. I was never satisfied with the accuracy of the G20SF (or with the caliber, for that matter). Both the G36 and G20SF pistols and one of the G34's have moved on in trades or sales. I plan to keep all the others, and on occasion, do, in fact, bet my life on them.

[Backspin]

So it sounds like it is exactly what we have come to accept as totally okay.

The power of self deception is strong. After my experience wth the G43, I totally agree with your assessment of rolling the dice with Glock.

I thought the BTF issue was "acceptable" since it went away fairly quickly. Then there were feeding issues, but those were probably caused by magazine extensions. The other issue of early slide lockback is totally not ok. At first I thought it was a freak occurence and then it became worse after I put about 1500 rounds through the gun. The lock back also only occured when shooting hotter (i.e. defensive) loads. Hopefully the new slide stop fixes the issue. I'm actually rather upset at myself for having carried that gun on occasion when there was a real chance it would have failed me.

Ironically, I told a co-worker to stay away from the G43 for at least a year because I predicted bugs still needed to be worked out. Then I won one at a match back in November. In 20/20 hindsight I should have sold it before dumping a bunch of time, ammo and money into the platform. But it was a worthwhile experiment nonetheless wringing out that gun, even if the end result is I wouldn't want to trust my life again with my G43 if I can absolutely help it. At least I have info I can pass on to my co-workers who are buying the gun in increasing numbers.

[Nephrology]

One of the things that frustrates these issues is a lack of common definition and inclusion criteria for the "BTF" label. Depending on who is speaking, every Glock I own has it, none of them do, or some do in a given set of circumstances. Several other manufacturers have it as well, depending on what we're talking about. So I ask...

What is "BTF?"
How often does it need to occur to earn the label?
If a certain gun does BTF with...
...only certain loads,
...only certain shooters,
...or only certain shooters with certain loads, is it included?
What about the same questions applied to erratic ejection?
Is consistent ejection a direction other than 2:00-5:00 BTF or erratic? Is it okay?
If we arrive at a definition and a gun has a BTF or erratic ejection condition, but does not experience stoppages, is it defective?

I believe that we are all seeing some things, but are not categorizing and reporting them in the same way.

I think this is worth mentioning too... I've only once had a Glock with BTF so bad that it actually prevented me from shooting the gun well, and that occurred AFTER I installed an HRED - never attempted to repair the problem with OEM parts. I also can't ever say I've had BTF with carry ammo or 9mm NATO-ish loads.


The fact that you need to buy an HRED or some combo with an APEX extractor and silly games with ejector combos is a gigantic red flag that something is wrong. An entire cottage industry built around Glock not giving two f$cks if the extraction and ejection portion of the cycle of operations is important.

While I can't say I'm thrilled, I've only ever felt the *need* to install aftermarket parts on guns that were probably due for a spring change interval and I decided to skip using OEM parts. Also, it's worth mentioning that Glock isn't the only brand that has relied on an aftermarket cottage industry - the Beretta 92 series Wolff TCU to replace a failure prone trigger return spring, the M&P 9mm accuracy issues + barrels, basically every spring & small part that seems to come in a CZ, etc...

I also wonder how many guns would have a similar industry if competitors sold nearly as many units as Glock does; i.e. just like the aftermarket options for all Glock parts & accessories are so huge, maybe there would be detection and resolution of more end-user issues like BTF in guns by FN or Walther or the PX4 series or the like.

[LSP972]

2016 = Colt Lightweight Commander > G26 :-)

Well, I'm about to find out... maybe. Or, I should say, I'm about to find out if THIS G26 is good. I still cannot shoot... but my wife is a pretty good trigger puller, so SHE is gonna "test" this monkey for me. Assuming all is okay (I'm gonna use 147gr HSTs- I suspect that the 124gr +P version will shoot a bit low) I'll start carrying it.

BTW... that was a cruel statement you made. But I guess I deserved it, for being such a wussy about this. Advantage HCM...;)

.

[HCM]

Well, I'm about to find out... maybe. Or, I should say, I'm about to find out if THIS G26 is good. I still cannot shoot... but my wife is a pretty good trigger puller, so SHE is gonna "test" this monkey for me. Assuming all is okay (I'm gonna use 147gr HSTs- I suspect that the 124gr +P version will shoot a bit low) I'll start carrying it.

BTW... that was a cruel statement you made. But I guess I deserved it, for being such a wussy about this. Advantage HCM...;)

.

You know you want a Genuine Colt Lightweight Commander - even if it is chambered in Europellet. :cool: Plus your dog can't eat it....

On a related note, I got to coon-finger a Ruger 9mm light weight commander and was pretty impressed. The Chevron cut slide serrations are ugly but effective. It seemed like a surprisingly nice gun for $700 ish. I also handled a new G-43 in battlefield green - the trigger was light years better than my 2015 model.

Anyone have experience with the Dan Wesson ECO in 9mm ?

[Kirk]

MY G43 is now at 700 rounds in 4 days with 0 issues. The Truglo sight broke today, but they were just dovetail protectors until my Hackathorns come in Thursday. Picking up another G43 next week, I'll see how it holds up

[LSP972]

You know you want a Genuine Colt Lightweight Commander - even if it is chambered in Europellet. :cool: Plus your dog can't eat it....



Yes... but I'm going to wait until the cancer docs nuke me before I buy anything else. No sense wasting coin if the radiation doesn't slow things down... and, in other areas, that G26 did fine today. I'll carry it tomorrow (got a busy day, several doc appointments; it was two weeks ago they cracked my head open), and if THAT works out, then I'm good for a while.

But you're right, I want one. If I can stay stable for a while (and so far, that's been happening), I'll buy one.

I saw an ad on that Ruger today in a gun rag mag. 34 ounces? Really? That's a half-pound heavier than the original Commander. I hope I mis-read that.

.

[StraitR]

I saw an ad on that Ruger today in a gun rag mag. 34 ounces? Really? That's a half-pound heavier than the original Commander. I hope I mis-read that.

According to the Ruger website, it's 29.3. My 10 round WC mag weighed about 5oz loaded 124 Gold Dots, so I'd guess the 36oz number was an all-up weight.

http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6722.html

[BobLoblaw]

One of the things that frustrates these issues is a lack of common definition and inclusion criteria for the "BTF" label. Depending on who is speaking, every Glock I own has it, none of them do, or some do in a given set of circumstances. Several other manufacturers have it as well, depending on what we're talking about. So I ask...

What is "BTF?"
How often does it need to occur to earn the label?
If a certain gun does BTF with...
...only certain loads,
...only certain shooters,
...or only certain shooters with certain loads, is it included?
What about the same questions applied to erratic ejection?
Is consistent ejection a direction other than 2:00-5:00 BTF or erratic? Is it okay?
If we arrive at a definition and a gun has a BTF or erratic ejection condition, but does not experience stoppages, is it defective?

I believe that we are all seeing some things, but are not categorizing and reporting them in the same way.

I didn't know the BTF label required additional criteria besides deflecting factory-loaded cases with your dome. Most other firearm designs don't rely on magazine springs to foot as much of the extraction bill as Glocks so they should be expected to toss more brass into your face. Simplicity can have its drawbacks. Glock failing to fix those drawbacks and sometimes flatly denying them means as a company they DGAF about BTF.

[LSP972]

According to the Ruger website, it's 29.3. My 10 round WC mag weighed about 5oz loaded 124 Gold Dots, so I'd guess the 36oz number was an all-up weight.



Ah; that makes sense. Thanks.

.

[Trukinjp13]

I have ran a lot of different ammo through my Talo g43. The only brass to face happened with light 115grn ammo. It was a handful of times out of probably 50 rounds. Reliability was perfect until I tried the magguts deal. Did not like my carry ammo at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wondering Beard]

I remember a series of videos some years back when the then new gen4s had real reliability problems and tons of BTF. I think they were done by Apex or by someone interacting with Apex to determine what could or could not work. I wish I could remember the who and what but I don't. Anyway, one of the things that came up was that the ejection port may have been too small on the right side for the sort of somewhat weak ejection that Glocks have and that the brass bounced off the right side 'wall' and back onto the face.

Time went by, the Apex extractor was introduced, Glock didn't change a thing about its slides and BTF became a hit or miss thing when buying a new Glock. I still wonder though if opening up the ejection port (specifically lowering it on the right side) might not actually solve the problem. I look at my VP9, at photos of SF polymer pistols (like SIG and Walther) and the ejection port is definitely larger than that of the Glock, specifically on the right.

[CS Tactical]

Finally shot my 43 last night for the first time with 100 rounds of S&B 115gr Hollowpoints, 50 rounds of Federal HST 124gr and 50 rounds Federal HST 147gr. No BTF and my Taran +1, Taran +3 and Tango Down +2's all worked well but damn that sucker is snappy.

[StraitR]

Finally shot my 43 last night for the first time with 100 rounds of S&B 115gr Hollowpoints, 50 rounds of Federal HST 124gr and 50 rounds Federal HST 147gr. No BTF and my Taran +1, Taran +3 and Tango Down +2's all worked well but damn that sucker is snappy.

My experience was the same with Gold Dots and Ranger loadings. I like S&B ammo. I'm not sure about their hollow points, but I've always found their 9mm and 45 target loadings to function well in everything, probably due to their typical high FPS for range fodder. As an example, their standard 115gr (SB9A) is rated at 1280 FPS, that's 147,200 power factor. I dig it.

[CS Tactical]

[/B]

My experience was the same with Gold Dots and Ranger loadings. I like S&B ammo. I'm not sure about their hollow points, but I've always found their 9mm and 45 target loadings to function well in everything, probably due to their typical high FPS for range fodder. As an example, their standard 115gr (SB9A) is rated at 1280 FPS, that's 147,200 power factor. I dig it.


I love S&B ammo! I grabbed these few boxes we had on the shelf and I had no idea they were HP's when they were originally ordered :cool:

[StraitR]

I love S&B ammo! I grabbed these few boxes we had on the shelf and I had no idea they were HP's when they were originally ordered :cool:

haha. Good to see another admirer of Czech ammo. What's the SKU on the hollow points? I wouldn't mind picking some up just to try if the price is right.

The other thing I like, and I've not seen it listed or verified it by measuring, but I get the impression the S&B 9mm COL is on the high side, which can be a good thing in some guns (9mm 1911s come to mind).

[CS Tactical]

haha. Good to see another admirer of Czech ammo. What's the SKU on the hollow points? I wouldn't mind picking some up just to try if the price is right.

The other thing I like, and I've not seen it listed or verified it by measuring, but I get the impression the S&B 9mm COL is on the high side, which can be a good thing in some guns (9mm 1911s come to mind).

Mine is in a Black and Gold box SKU SB9C
http://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-115-gr-jhp-sellier-and-bellot-50-rounds

[Ed L]

I still wonder though if opening up the ejection port (specifically lowering it on the right side) might not actually solve the problem. I look at my VP9, at photos of SF polymer pistols (like SIG and Walther) and the ejection port is definitely larger than that of the Glock, specifically on the right.

Before they had their improved extractor, Apex did this for me on a problematic Glock 17.

[Wondering Beard]

Did it solve the problem?

[psalms144.1]

FWIW, I had BTF issues with my G43 for about 200 rounds. BTF went away, and the gun ejects fairly consistently now--about 4 feet to 3o'clock .

However, I've had a slew of premature slide lock-backs, particularly recently. Thought it was my thumb hitting the slide stop in recoil, until it locked to the rear with my thumb completely away from the slide stop. Turns out I have an "old" slide stop (part# 33730). Frustrating that the gun is less than 2 years old and is already having updated parts made (the horrible stock connector being another one).Wait, wait...what? There's a new slide stop as well? My pistol does a lot of early slide locking that I thought were my thumb placement...

[psalms144.1]

What is "BTF?"
How often does it need to occur to earn the label?
If a certain gun does BTF with...
...only certain loads,
...only certain shooters,
...or only certain shooters with certain loads, is it included?
What about the same questions applied to erratic ejection?
Is consistent ejection a direction other than 2:00-5:00 BTF or erratic? Is it okay?
If we arrive at a definition and a gun has a BTF or erratic ejection condition, but does not experience stoppages, is it defective?

I believe that we are all seeing some things, but are not categorizing and reporting them in the same way.Sorry to be late to the table (a visit to the ER with A-Fib will do that), but here's my try at answering these questions:

1. BTF is an ejected case that travels on a similar plane to the slide anywhere from 5-7 o'clock. I've had BTF from my chin into my hair, on both sides of my face, with my problematic G19s. I've had cases just "kiss" me, and I had a case hit my Oakley's hard enough to chip them.
2. "How often" is more than once, IMHO. Once could be an ammo/grip/stance/angels dancing on pinheads issue. More than once is a pattern. Worst I had was one case hitting my face every 2-3 rounds fired.
3. My problem G19s would BTF with everything I fed them, from actual NATO FMJ (124 gr +P equivalent) to subsonic 147 gr JHP to WWB 115 gr
4. My problem G19s exhibited BTF with every shooter I put behind them, from relative novices to long-time high-round count GLOCK shooters

WRT to ejection, every one of my BTF-plagued G19s exhibited "lawn sprinkler" ejection - including cases landing forward of the muzzle, left, right, and everywhere in between. One of the BTF-plagued G19s also had several classic stove pipe stoppages.

IMHO, a chronic BTF pistol is defective. I've seen several GLOCK shooters who had developed very pronounced head twitches after eating brass repeatedly - which is NOT conducive to effective and safe operation of the handgun - regardless if it consistently fed/fire/extracted/ejected.

I think there would, in fact, be more consistent and reliable reporting if GLOCK admitted that a problem existed, and put out workable information through its VERY LARGE network of armorers on what BTF and erratic ejection is, and how to address it. Unfortunately, GLOCK's corporate position continues to be that the causes of any malfunctions should be evaluated first as user error, then ammunition related, then maintenance related, and only if all of those are eliminated should a potential manufacturing/design issue be considered.

Now, before the GLOCK-hater label comes out, I'll remind y'all that my all-day every day carry gun is STILL a Gen4 G19 which now ejects "OK" after an HRED and Apex extractor, backed up by a Gen 4 G26. But I WON'T be buying a G19M anytime before 2020...

[Backspin]

Wait, wait...what? There's a new slide stop as well? My pistol does a lot of early slide locking that I thought were my thumb placement...

New part # is 33731
http://glockparts.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1209358&CAT=5203

Do you have the old part in your 43? I thought it was thumb placement until it locked back when I was shooting one handed with my thumb clearly away from the lever.

[LSP972]

Damn... there is ANOTHER problem now?

About right; I carried the G26 all day this past Wednesday, it was uncomfortable (dumbass me forgot to figure that the G26 needs 147gr burrets to keep the issue plastic sights zeroed at ten yards, during my initial work-ups... and therefore the G26 weighs TWO ounces less than a G19, instead of five :rolleyes: ), so I decided to go clear back to the G43.

And at 0300 the next morning, I was semi-alive with a right leg full of Strep A cellulitis. No relation at all to the brain tumor surgery; that afternoon, we were in the surgeon's office and he said I was great, could drive, shoot, do the yard, etc. now. And 8 hours later, I'm back in the frigging hospital. Jesus Christ, what's next???

Still here, and will be for a while. This a nasty, violent bug that almost took me out. Today was the first day I have been lucid and semi-comfortable.

Anyway, no more whining. So, the slide stop is part of the G43 FT/extract/eject issue? I thought mine was okay now. But I was talking to a squared away dude giving me yet another MRI today, and he said his G43 started choking just pet 1K rounds.

Really makes you wonder...

.

[Duelist]

There are so many guns in this class out there now - seems like everybody's got one, or are trying to have one. Even the R51 seems to be back. Ought to be at least one that actually works.

[Greg]

I hope your health improves LSP972.

My 43 has been an excellent gun past 4000 rounds now. Zero hiccups. I shot it in the Pocket Glock division earlier today at a GSSF match.

I should get a new RSA for it....

[LSP972]

Thanks, Greg.

I thought I had passed all of that " testing" nonsense; guess not. Gonna have to do it all over again when I finally get back on my feet... again.

.

[RevolverRob]

You will notice there is no sticky on how to resolve your HK extraction problems, accuracy issues, magazine spring guide for what springs and followers to use. This is a clue.

It is telling, isn't it?

I guess the older I get, the more frugal I get, the busier I get, the less I have interest in playing with guns that don't work.

I thought about buying a new Glock the other day. Then the 17M fiasco started and I was reminded why I have grown over the years to loathe Glock and Glock-toting-toadies (not pointing a finger at anyone here). The amount of obsession with a new gun that clearly was broken from the get go, blows my mind. It's just an emotional response not unlike what used to happen when you talked about how your Les Baer only needed 2000 rounds to break-in and the Glocks pointed out that "break-in" was a fallacy (except now...when it's an integral part of Glock ownership...).

Then I thought about buying an M&P9...And I realized that the last three M&Ps I've had, had to be filled with Apex parts to get good function, accuracy, and a trigger out of them. Why did I do that to myself? Silly.

So, here I am, realizing that the older and grumpier I get, the more I realize my idiot friends from 10-years ago were right when they said, "Just buy an HK and be done with it." :rolleyes:

[StraitR]

Hmmm... So, does that mean you have a Baer you want to get rid of, or am I simply reading what I want to read? I have a like new P30 V1 and *cough* a glock to trade with a side of cash. ;)

I give it two months, and there won't be a polymer gun left in my safe. Besides, if I really need one, I can grab one on my lunch hour. :p

[RevolverRob]

Hmmm... So, does that mean you have a Baer you want to get rid of, or am I simply reading what I want to read? I have a like new P30 V1 and *cough* a glock to trade with a side of cash. ;)

I give it two months, and there won't be a polymer gun left in my safe. Besides, if I really need one, I can grab one on my lunch hour. :p

Alas, I sold off my 1911s to help pay for my wife's Masters of Finance degree. She now makes twice what I do with a theoretically higher lifetime earning potential. So...I think it was a wise investment.

[StraitR]

Alas, I sold off my 1911s to help pay for my wife's Masters of Finance degree. She now makes twice what I do with a theoretically higher lifetime earning potential. So...I think it was a wise investment.

Totally worth it. Now you can buy lots of 1911's. :D

[GJM]

Refresh me, what HK model is a substitute for a Glock 43?

[LSP972]

There isn't one, George; and you know it.

Rob is 100% spot-on. And I had a safe full of HK pistols for the exact same reason. Now, my problem is I NEED a small, light 9mm pistol for an EDC piece. The G43 is just about perfect in size, weight, recoil strength, etc., for that purpose. No way in hell HK is going to make something like that. The German mindset is not even close to being geared for comfortable, concealed carry.

So I am stuck with my concern that the G43 has gremlins waiting to gouge me. Which is why the carry-multiple-J-frames attitude is gaining strength with me.

.

[SteveB]

There isn't one, George; and you know it.

Rob is 100% spot-on. And I had a safe full of HK pistols for the exact same reason. Now, my problem is I NEED a small, light 9mm pistol for an EDC piece. The G43 is just about perfect in size, weight, recoil strength, etc., for that purpose. No way in hell HK is going to make something like that. The German mindset is not even close to being geared for comfortable, concealed carry.

So I am stuck with my concern that the G43 has gremlins waiting to gouge me. Which is why the carry-multiple-J-frames attitude is gaining strength with me.

.

8 months now with the Walther PPS M2; no malfunctions yet!

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?18823-Walther-PPS-M2

[breakingtime91]

Ya I would go pps if I wanted a single stack to compliment my HKs.

[GJM]

There isn't one, George; and you know it.

Rob is 100% spot-on. And I had a safe full of HK pistols for the exact same reason. Now, my problem is I NEED a small, light 9mm pistol for an EDC piece. The G43 is just about perfect in size, weight, recoil strength, etc., for that purpose. No way in hell HK is going to make something like that. The German mindset is not even close to being geared for comfortable, concealed carry.

So I am stuck with my concern that the G43 has gremlins waiting to gouge me. Which is why the carry-multiple-J-frames attitude is gaining strength with me.

.

Precisely, and so we have a Kahr that requires JodyH level attention to run, a Shield that is big, a PPS that carried AIWB conceals no better for me than a 26, and the 43.

[breakingtime91]

Precisely, and so we have a Kahr that requires JodyH level attention to run, a Shield that is big, a PPS that carried AIWB conceals no better for me than a 26, and the 43.

I would of never considered the shield big. I always felt that mine was really easy to hide compared to a g26 or g19

[Totem Polar]

The later direction of this thread is why I still have a G43. It's just too useful for me. It is, however, my last remaining Glock, since I'm no action guy, and beholden only to my own whims.

[LSP972]

Precisely, and so we have a Kahr that requires JodyH level attention to run, a Shield that is big, a PPS that carried AIWB conceals no better for me than a 26, and the 43.

Exactly so.

.

[RevolverRob]

Totally worth it. Now you can buy lots of 1911's. :D

Well...once my student loans are paid off...and the car...and the mortgage. ~Sigh~ I remember being a kid and thinking being an adult would be fun, because of all the monies I would have.


Refresh me, what HK model is a substitute for a Glock 43?

P30SK, brah! Come on! No, alas this part is true, there is no HK that fills the G43 role.


There isn't one, George; and you know it.

Rob is 100% spot-on. And I had a safe full of HK pistols for the exact same reason. Now, my problem is I NEED a small, light 9mm pistol for an EDC piece. The G43 is just about perfect in size, weight, recoil strength, etc., for that purpose. No way in hell HK is going to make something like that. The German mindset is not even close to being geared for comfortable, concealed carry.

So I am stuck with my concern that the G43 has gremlins waiting to gouge me. Which is why the carry-multiple-J-frames attitude is gaining strength with me.

.

Hate to suggest it - .380 of some flavor? The multiple J-Frames has, of course, been my default mode for years. I like the flavors of Kahrs I've had, but none ultimately upset the J-Frame for carrying.

Sorry to hear of the health troubles. Go kick its ass and take names!


Precisely, and so we have a Kahr that requires JodyH level attention to run, a Shield that is big, a PPS that carried AIWB conceals no better for me than a 26, and the 43.

I find the PPS better than a G26, but that might be a personal preference and I like the Kahrs I've had. C-series seems to be the sweet spot on looser tolerances and cost. I think the P-series guns are built a tad too tight most of the time, they don't seem to run as well.

[Kyle Reese]

Another shameless plug for the Walther PPS here. [emoji41]

[Nephrology]

I would of never considered the shield big. I always felt that mine was really easy to hide compared to a g26 or g19

Yeah, my Shield doesn't feel terribly big either, but I will admit I am awfully tempted to flip it for a 43 (if only so I can buy the adaptor plate for my glock sight pusher). I prefer my glock 26 over both, however, and really isn't harder to carry than the shield.

[LSP972]

Hate to suggest it - .380 of some flavor? The multiple J-Frames has, of course, been my default mode for years. I like the flavors of Kahrs I've had, but none ultimately upset the J-Frame for carrying.

.

That ain't happening... No way, no how. Definitely the multiple J frame gig if I simply don't settle down on the G43.

.

[Kirk]

Are any of your G43s not running?

My G17 BTFs with Federal ammo sometimes. It still shoots under 1.75 inches at 25 yards with the S3F barrel and runs fine. Just curious. No problems out of the 3 G43s I've owned at all. Put a lot of rounds through them.

[LSP972]

Are any of your G43s not running?
.

It has malfed a few times. While I am reasonably certain that was because it simply doesn't play well with +P ammunition (and I have no problem with that), there have been others who have NOT had the sterling experience you have had... So far, anyway.

Hence, the wondering-what-to-do syndrome some of us have now. We know the G43 is basically a good piece. We also know that some of them have gremlins.

.

[Kirk]

It has malfed a few times. While I am reasonably certain that was because it simply doesn't play well with +P ammunition (and I have no problem with that), there have been others who have NOT had the sterling experience you have had... So far, anyway.

Hence, the wondering-what-to-do syndrome some of us have now. We know the G43 is basically a good piece. We also know that some of them have gremlins.

.

Didn't realize this was so wide spread, I'm glad I've gotten lucky.

My problem is that I honestly can't tell much of a difference in concealment with a G19 in Eidelon vs. a G43 in a Gestalt/Errand/Whatever else. In fact, I'm about to trade a G43 for a chopped 17 with extras.

[LSP972]

My problem is that I honestly can't tell much of a difference in concealment with a G19 in Eidelon vs. a G43 in a Gestalt/Errand/Whatever else. .

Just stand by. When you get old... you will.

.

[Dave Williams]

My small gun is a Sig 938. Bruce Grey endorsed, 7 or 8 shot 9mm, great trigger, service pistol night sights out of the box. I carry it on the ankle or in a pocket when I can't carry a real gun.