Tell me about Bangor Punta

[jetfire]

Some dude just dropped an assload of Model 67s on the secondary market for about 4 bills. These are "Bangor Punta" guns, which I've heard on the internet is a bad thing, or maybe not depending on who you talk to. The thing that really gets my attention is that they're all PD trades from the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department...where my father was a deputy when these would have been issued. There is a tremendous sentimental desire to buy one of these if for no other reason than to do a neat write up on "guns of my father" and cover this, his custom .357, and the Beretta 92 in a retrospective article.

But I'd also shoot the hell out of it, and I don't particularly want to drop $400 on a K-frame if it's going to fall to bits on me.

[TNWNGR]

The Bangor Punta S&W gun’s didn’t have a very good name but were still serviceable guns. I wouldn’t worry about it any because most of the highly desirable “pinned barrel” S&W revolver’s you run across were Bangor Punta Smith’s. :)

[David Armstrong]

Given that it is an LAPD gun I wouldn't worry too much. IME of the major PDs out there LAPD was probably the best of the bunch over time in the maintenance and upkeep of the guns for the regular street guys and gals. Personally I think 4 bills is a little steep, but if that is what the market is bearing it is what it is.

[TGS]

$400 sounds awfully steep for a PD trade in. I got my 19-4 in excellent condition (would've been "like new" except for the grip reduction) for $450. The only PD trade in revolvers I've personally seen were model 10's and Ruger speed/service 6's, and they went for $210-$260.

BTW, I also bought my Smith for similar sentimental reasons. Seemed like I had to have one being my dad carried one for 11 years as a NJ State Trooper. I'm glad I did, I ended up LOVING these pinned & recessed Smith's. Heirloom guns. Didn't care so much for the 586 I got though....something about recessed chambers really makes it "happen" for me.

[jetfire]

Given that it is an LAPD gun I wouldn't worry too much. IME of the major PDs out there LAPD was probably the best of the bunch over time in the maintenance and upkeep of the guns for the regular street guys and gals. Personally I think 4 bills is a little steep, but if that is what the market is bearing it is what it is.

Not LAPD. LA Sheriff's Department. Having been raised by an LA Deputy, that's a fairly important distinction. If it was an LAPD gun I wouldn't touch it with someone else's hands, lest my father disown me.

[Simon]

I bought my first S&W revolver in 1967 or so, and I bought my last in about 1985. I never found any difference between any of them. I don,t like the new model revolvers nearly as well as the older models. I don't think Bangor Punta changed the quality any.

[Tamara]

"Bangor Punta" is nothing but the shorthand for the company that owned S&W from '65-'87.

It is sometimes used as a pejorative for "low-quality Smiths", but that's more from a collector standpoint. Think of it as the "Ron Cohen" era for S&W.

If all you're looking for is a service-grade revolver to shoot, odds on one from the Bangor Punta era aren't terribly worse than those from the subsequent early Tompkins PLC era.

[Tamara]

I don't think Bangor Punta changed the quality any.
I beg to frickin' differ.

[TGS]

It is sometimes used as a pejorative for "low-quality Smiths", but that's more from a collector standpoint. Think of it as the "Ron Cohen" era for S&W.


I'll be quick to admit that I don't have nearly as much knowledge and experience with wheel guns as you, Tam.

That's a bit of a stretch though. Having a slightly higher aggregate return to the factory for problems, ever so slightly looser tolerances or not as good polishing on internal parts is a long ways away from "Doesn't work/Weapons returned/Contract revoked/No longer allowed to participate in procurement program."

Of course, I may be wrong. I'd appreciate anything you can share.

[jetfire]

Cool. Time to smash the piggy bank.

I have this idea for a shooting project; my dad was issued a k-frame Model 67 when he was a deputy sheriff, which he shortly thereafter replaced with a Ruger/Colt hybrid he had made. This was back when LASD allowed individual officer purchases of duty guns as long as it was a six shot revolver chambered in .357 Magnum or .38 Special. He carried the Ruger/Colt until the department issued Berettas to everyone in '88 when I was six.

I have the Ruger/Colt now, and I still shoot it. It doesn't have the best trigger, but it's easily the most accurate gun I've ever shot. Kind of like "This is your father's revolver. Not as clumsy or random as an automatic; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age."

And now I could get a K-frame just like what he carried before the Ruger. It seems appropriate.

[Tamara]

Smith during that era had a few large issues that tarnished their reputation, the most notable would be the one that occurred right after the huge and much-ballyhooed launch of the L-frame. Pimped as a medium-frame .357 that would be ideal for law enforcement, departments soon began reporting issues with primer flow tying up the cylinders, necessitating a huge recall.

As I mentioned before, I had a very early L-frame (581) that I got off Oleg Volk, who complained that it wouldn't shoot worth a darn and shaved lead something awful. Turns out that there was no way you could even drop a range rod down the bore, the axis of the bore and the top chamber were so misaligned. And that's not the kind of "oopsie" that happens with just one gun; I guarantee that there were as many as a hundred misaligned frames on either side of that one in the production line, and that's a gun that was specifically marketed to police departments.

And that's ignoring the issues on the semiauto side of the house at the time... :(

[rsa-otc]

replaced with a Ruger/Colt hybrid he had made. This was back when LASD allowed individual officer purchases of duty guns as long as it was a six shot revolver chambered in .357 Magnum or .38 Special. He carried the Ruger/Colt until the department issued Berettas to everyone in '88 when I was six.

I have the Ruger/Colt now, and I still shoot it. It doesn't have the best trigger, but it's easily the most accurate gun I've ever shot. Kind of like "This is your father's revolver. Not as clumsy or random as an automatic; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age."


Would that be a Python barrel on a Ruger frame. During my days competing on the PPC circuit in the late 70's it was popular to mount a Python Barrel on the Smith frame coming up with a "SMOLT". The claim was a better action with the accuracy of the Python barrel. I would imagine that the Ruger frame/action gave him a more robust firearm than the Colt frame/action.

[rsa-otc]

Smith during that era had a few large issues that tarnished their reputation, the most notable would be the one that occurred right after the huge and much-ballyhooed launch of the L-frame. Pimped as a medium-frame .357 that would be ideal for law enforcement, departments soon began reporting issues with primer flow tying up the cylinders, necessitating a huge recall.

As I mentioned before, I had a very early L-frame (581) that I got off Oleg Volk, who complained that it wouldn't shoot worth a darn and shaved lead something awful. Turns out that there was no way you could even drop a range rod down the bore, the axis of the bore and the top chamber were so misaligned. And that's not the kind of "oopsie" that happens with just one gun; I guarantee that there were as many as a hundred misaligned frames on either side of that one in the production line, and that's a gun that was specifically marketed to police departments.

And that's ignoring the issues on the semiauto side of the house at the time... :(

Very interesting.

We have in our company inventory of approx 50 guns, 30 of which date back to that time frame. At one time it was up around 80. I can never remember an issue with these guns and they had approx 750 to 1000 rounds through them each year. In fact I'm just now having to start changing springs out. My 686 is a early model dash nothing, I've had no issues that a good cleaning didn't fix. And my 645 has run like a top until recently when I had to replace the slide stop and and square up the slide lock notch on the slide. The ambi safety/decock right lever screw did keep backing out until S&W replaced it with a 3rd gen unit.

I guess I wasn't in tune to what was going on in the larger picture, everything was good in my world.

[jetfire]

Would that be a Python barrel on a Ruger frame. During my days competing on the PPC circuit in the late 70's it was popular to mount a Python Barrel on the Smith frame coming up with a "SMOLT". The claim was a better action with the accuracy of the Python barrel. I would imagine that the Ruger frame/action gave him a more robust firearm than the Colt frame/action.

It is as a matter of fact a 6 inch Python barrel on a Security Six frame. From what I understand from my dad and the research I've done, the gun was turned out by the Davis shop in California, who specialized in building guns for PPC.

[Al T.]

Back in the day, that was usually the mark of an accomplished wheel gun shooter.

Ruger + Colt = Couger

Smith & Wesson + Colt = Smolt

Jim Cirillo championed Dan Wesson barrels on S&W frames. Not aware of any sort of name though. :p

Back to your regularly scheduled thread:

I'd go for it. The BP guns were very rough compared to earlier S&Ws, but functional.

[Tamara]

We have in our company inventory of approx 50 guns, 30 of which date back to that time frame. At one time it was up around 80. I can never remember an issue with these guns and they had approx 750 to 1000 rounds through them each year. In fact I'm just now having to start changing springs out. My 686 is a early model dash nothing, I've had no issues that a good cleaning didn't fix.

If your duty weapons are "no-dash" L-frames that use magnum loads, it is recommended that you inspect the crane area to see if they have the "M" stamp that shows that they were returned for the recall to fit new bushings around the firing pin hole.

The recall was issued for a reason.

[rsa-otc]

If your duty weapons are "no-dash" L-frames that use magnum loads, it is recommended that you inspect the crane area to see if they have the "M" stamp that shows that they were returned for the recall to fit new bushings around the firing pin hole.

The recall was issued for a reason.

Actually our duty weapons are all K frames, 10, 13, 64 & 65's. The L frame is my personal weapon I use for IDPA. Thanks for the heads up.

[Tamara]

Actually our duty weapons are all K frames, 10, 13, 64 & 65's.

(Homer Simpson voice) Mm-mmm... K-frames (http://cosmolineandrust.blogspot.com/2007/11/sunday-smith-22-model-547-1982.html)... (/Homer Simpson voice) :)

[JodyH]

Tell me about Bangor Punta.

Over Bangor Punta?
No I don't think I'll ever get over Bangor Punta, those wounds run pretty deep.

[NickA]

Tell me about Bangor Punta.

Over Bangor Punta?
No I don't think I'll ever get over Bangor Punta, those wounds run pretty deep.

LOL
On the hybrid thing- a guy I work with claimed to have a "Smith & Wesson Python" and I chalked it up to him being full of shit (which he usually is). Still haven't actually seen it but was interesting to read about them. Guess I didn't know as much as I thought (also not unusual).

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[Wheeler]

(Homer Simpson voice) Mm-mmm... K-frames (http://cosmolineandrust.blogspot.com/2007/11/sunday-smith-22-model-547-1982.html)... (/Homer Simpson voice) :)

That's just evil taunting me with a 547...

[BigT]

Tamara that evil link is going to cost me a metric shit ton of money:) I want a Smith M21 so badly I can taste it.

[David Armstrong]

which he shortly thereafter replaced with a Ruger/Colt hybrid he had made.
Commonly known as a "Couger" back in the days when we mixed and matched. One of my guys had a "Smolt" that he really liked, as opposed to the "Smython" one of the guys down the road used, based on different barrels used.

[RickB]

How does Bangor Punta compare to Lear Siegler? I had a '86 Smith, and it was pretty nice. The DA pull wasn't great, but the SA pull and exterior finish were very nice.

[Tamara]

How does Bangor Punta compare to Lear Siegler? I had a '86 Smith, and it was pretty nice. The DA pull wasn't great, but the SA pull and exterior finish were very nice.

QC at Smith didn't really pick up until Tompkins bought them. The Brits sprung for lots of new CNC machinery and instituted a bunch of changes in order to gain ISO compliance.

(This is not to say that all guns from the B-P or Lear Siegler eras sucked, it's just that your odds of getting a lemon in those years was a lot higher than the periods immediately before or after.)