Details out on Glock 17M

[finslayer83]

http://i.imgur.com/2KCz49i.jpg

[LockedBreech]

Followin' the heck out of this thread, thanks for posting.

[Luke]

I'm having trouble seeing your other picture, you know, the one of the gun.























:)

[Hauptmann]

Different rifling? Does that mean it has standard rifling instead of the hexagonal?

[finslayer83]

This is all I've seen from another thread on ARF

[Mickey]

Now I wonder if the old style magazines are going to be able to be used in this new generation?

[busykngt]

And don't forget listing 'The Gadget'. [emoji3]

[Luke]

Now I wonder if the old style magazines are going to be able to be used in this new generation?


Probably not. Every Instagram operator in the world needs this new gen 5 glock! Why would glock miss an opportunity to sell them new magazines.

ehat about the gadget!?!! Generation 5.1M approved?

[HopetonBrown]

Probably not. Every Instagram operator in the world needs this new gen 5 glock! Why would glock miss an opportunity to sell them new magazines.

ehat about the gadget!?!! Generation 5.1M approved?
Kinda like how they've not missed opportunities to sell them new mags on previous generation Glocks?

[Luke]

They haven't changed anything on the other new glocks other than adding the things no one wants. Like grooved trigger and finger grooves.

[Nephrology]

Take my money.

[BehindBlueI's]

Now I wonder if the old style magazines are going to be able to be used in this new generation?

I was told yes, existing mags work. New mags just have a base plate that extends a bit more for easier "ripping out" of stuck mag.

[JHC]

Longer RSA and new rifling are the most "waaaaaaaat?" details to me. This is more interesting than I thought. Surely the MHS gun.

[GJM]

I was told yes, existing mags work. New mags just have a base plate that extends a bit more for easier "ripping out" of stuck mag.

Man, I gotta get me some of them baseplates in FDE soon. I have a course with Mr_White beginning of October and I need all my face shooting gear and outfit squared away by then.

[396]

Longer RSA and new rifling are the most "waaaaaaaat?" details to me. This is more interesting than I thought. Surely the MHS gun.

Same here.

[Cory]

I'm curious how the new pistol will feel in hand, and what if any difference the changed magazine well and lack of finger grooves do to the "pointability" or the comfort of the gun.

-Cory

[396]

Supposedly the IMPD will have them in hand on Monday.

[BehindBlueI's]

Supposedly the IMPD will have them in hand on Monday.

Fingers crossed. The original delivery date was about two weeks ago, but was bumped back to the 15th.

[GRV]

Longer RSA and new rifling are the most "waaaaaaaat?" details to me. This is more interesting than I thought. Surely the MHS gun.

The new safety plunger is the one that's got me (yea, and the rifling). There's a bit of a history for fucking around with the recoil spring, but I don't know of any history of messing with the safety plunger. AFAIK it's been the same part basically this whole time, and they are compatible across generations, models calibers, etc.

I've always kinda thought that, from a design perspective, its shape and the implied interface with the striker was....let's say "less than confidence inspiring", but it's very interesting to see that change all of a sudden. That means completely new tooling and compatibility breaking of 2-3 major functioning parts: plunger itself, striker (new interface), maybe plunger spring. That's a whole lot of stuff for something that didn't seem broken....unless it really did have issues and they never made news because of redundancy.

[GRV]

[...]That means completely new tooling and compatibility breaking of 2-3 major functioning parts: plunger itself, striker (new interface), maybe plunger spring.[...]

Oh and probably the extractor too (and maybe another part or so I haven't thought of), but Glock extractors have been anything but consistent...and I think we we're all hoping for a new one either way :rolleyes:

[JCS]

Talk about changes!


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[breakingtime91]

yes glock, make sure you change a bunch of stuff. Hopefully you tested it this time.

[Guinnessman]

The latest and greatest Glock sounds great! In the meantime I will buy some more Glock mags and watch the beta testers. I am not rushing out to buy a new generation Glock, especially after the Gen 4 woes.

[guymontag]

yes glock, make sure you change a bunch of stuff. Hopefully you tested it this time.

We need a double like button for comments like these.

[CS Tactical]

The new safety plunger is the one that's got me (yea, and the rifling). There's a bit of a history for fucking around with the recoil spring, but I don't know of any history of messing with the safety plunger. AFAIK it's been the same part basically this whole time, and they are compatible across generations, models calibers, etc.

I've always kinda thought that, from a design perspective, its shape and the implied interface with the striker was....let's say "less than confidence inspiring", but it's very interesting to see that change all of a sudden. That means completely new tooling and compatibility breaking of 2-3 major functioning parts: plunger itself, striker (new interface), maybe plunger spring. That's a whole lot of stuff for something that didn't seem broken....unless it really did have issues and they never made news because of redundancy.

Except for the G42 and G43...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jUOpbPyxXSk/UuXNaNHKbiI/AAAAAAAAAks/y5-p_NyGHCo/s1600/Glock42-SlideAssy.jpg

[stinx]

Supposedly the IMPD will have them in hand on Monday.

Who is IMPD?

[BWT]

Who is IMPD?

Wild Guess. Indianapolis Metro Police Department.

God Bless,

Brandon

ETA: If I can get a Glock 19M or 17M with a recess cut under the trigger guard and regular ejection. It's going to be a happy day.

I'm already a fan boy but it's only going to get better.

[GJM]

Who is IMPD?

They are Glock's reliability testers for the M.

[Wondering Beard]

All this talk about the FBI Glocks and I've forgotten: what's the M stand for?

[396]

Who is IMPD?

Indy Metro PD.

[El Cid]

yes glock, make sure you change a bunch of stuff. Hopefully you tested it this time.

I've heard from reliable sources it went over 160,000 rounds without a malfunction.

Weren't the magazine followers supposed to be a bright color? Thought that was in the RFP.

[Mjolnir]

This is interesting. Can't wait to see what they've come up with.


-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[Chuck Haggard]

But, I like the finger grooves................

[MSparks909]

I hope it ejects brass with the force of an AK...and not at my face

[spinmove_]

I never minded the finger grooves either, but I can definitely live without them. Looking forward to seeing this thing in action.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I have a moderate chub. Waiting for pics before I go full bore...

[JBP55]

I am ready for a G19M and a G17M.

[MSparks909]

Wonder if it'll still use the same sight setup as the current Glocks? As in screw in front/dovetail rear.

[Chuck Haggard]

Wonder if it'll still use the same sight setup as the current Glocks? As in screw in front/dovetail rear.

I hope they went to a front dovetail, the current set-up has always been a weak spot.

[okie john]

I hope they went to a front dovetail, the current set-up has always been a weak spot.

This.


Okie John

[Hauptmann]

I hope they went to a front dovetail, the current set-up has always been a weak spot.

Elephant in the room. Kinda like old style 1911 stamped front sights......piss poor design.

[StraitR]

So if the 17M turns out to be a turd with removable finger grooves and new high speed barrel rifling, will my Gen 4 crunchntickers be worth more?

[scw2]

For those that have lived through prior releases of new pistols/glock models, as a civilian would these likely be available in the first half of 2017, or would one probably be looking closer to 2018 before these become available?

[Hauptmann]

So if the 17M turns out to be a turd with removable finger grooves and new high speed barrel rifling, will my Gen 4 crunchntickers be worth more?

Most likely the new 17M with be the sh**z, and your G4 will be about as useful as dog poo. I'll take that worthless POS off your hands for $100. Take it or leave it. :D

[pastaslinger]

Don't care about rifling changes as Glocks are great in that they have high velocity for barrel length

Do care about trigger- really should be improved

[HCM]

But, I like the finger grooves................

JB weld.

[GJM]

While a dovetailed front sight might be ideal on a clean sheet of paper design, I would be really unhappy if I couldn't use legacy front sights on it, given there are probably more options of different height and style Glock front sights than for any other platform.

[Greg]

Smoother trigger like a 43?

Say What? The trigger on my 43 wrecked my trigger finger until I hit it with a round file.

[SW CQB 45]

The new safety plunger is the one that's got me (yea, and the rifling). There's a bit of a history for fucking around with the recoil spring, but I don't know of any history of messing with the safety plunger. AFAIK it's been the same part basically this whole time, and they are compatible across generations, models calibers, etc.

I've always kinda thought that, from a design perspective, its shape and the implied interface with the striker was....let's say "less than confidence inspiring", but it's very interesting to see that change all of a sudden. That means completely new tooling and compatibility breaking of 2-3 major functioning parts: plunger itself, striker (new interface), maybe plunger spring. That's a whole lot of stuff for something that didn't seem broken....unless it really did have issues and they never made news because of redundancy.

in reference to the proposed FPS change

I manage approx 180 Glocks (mainly G21, 32, 17 and 19) since 1998.

I have seen a lot of impact marks on the firing pin safety plunger and on the opposing end of the firing pin. The firing pins were impacting the firing pin safety (plunger) and over time (sort of fitting itself).

the FPS rotates and many times the impact marks are all the way around the plunger body.

I have seen NIB Glocks misfire with a slow controlled press and then work perfectly with a hammer press and down the road, they work fine.

I wonder if the oblong or rectangular FPS will minimize the time for the two parts to fit (if they are out of time) as the FPS will no longer rotate. hmmm.

I recall at a very early armorers class (mid 90s), we were told to buy 100 trigger bars (pre plus trigger bar days) and hold them up to the light and the ones with the taller firing pin safety depressor.....put those off to the side to make those guns that did not pass inspection.....to pass. Then years later.....the plus trigger bar came along.

pure guess on my part.

Our dept was awarded through the court system a older G19. It was a two pin with no finger groove that had hardly been shot. After upgrading the rough internals, I wanted to assign it to myself because the lack of finger groove was nice. I am ready for a personal glock that does not have to have the finger grooves ground off. HA!

[El Cid]

I fully expect the internet to crash Monday when pics from IMPD hit. Lol! ;)

[Savage Hands]

Smoother trigger like a 43?

Say What? The trigger on my 43 wrecked my trigger finger until I hit it with a round file.

The latest iteration has more of a roll before the trigger breaks.

[matt7184]

I wonder if the super cool rifling is just this:
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1893&issue_id=92009

As for the RSA, the reinforced notch is nothing new either. The notch on my first run G22 Gen 4 is different than the current Gen 4s that have since been released with the beavertails. The RSAs once updated are different in dimension as well.

https://us.glock.com/customer-service/recoil-spring-exchange

9836

[SteveB]

All this talk about the FBI Glocks and I've forgotten: what's the M stand for?

More Money

[RJ]

I wonder if the super cool rifling is just this:
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1893&issue_id=92009



Can you expand on this? I read the link, and the takeaway I had was that the EBIS alllowed barrels to be individualy serialized...and would make unique rifling marks on a fired round.

Does this mean the new Glock will come with a specific, serialized, marking system that can ID the barrel (and thus the gun S/N, presumably), based on a recovered bullet?

That would be interesting...

[matt7184]

Can you expand on this? I read the link, and the takeaway I had was that the EBIS alllowed barrels to be individualy serialized...and would make unique rifling marks on a fired round.

Does this mean the new Glock will come with a specific, serialized, marking system that can ID the barrel (and thus the gun S/N, presumably), based on a recovered bullet?

That would be interesting...

That is pretty much the goal of the "Miami Barrel". If the 17M/19M comes with that "new rifling" I do not know, but that would be my guess.

Details also here in this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9917-Miami-barrel&p=169001&viewfull=1#post169001

[L-2]

The "M" could then mean "Miami" instead of "Modified". Thanks for the info. I'd not heard of this specially rifled barrel previously.

[BehindBlueI's]

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/62415017.jpg

I know it's fun and all, but if you'll calm yourselves for just a bit before a bunch of rumors and baseless speculation spin up...real info will be available soon.

In a completely unrelated and baseless note, some of the T&E group allegedly noted how accurate the new Glock was.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm so ready for this. Just give me a flat front strap and ambi slide stop, no BTF would be nice but I can work around that.

[cardguy]

I would think Glock would wait till after the election, just in case.....

[serialsolver]

Just think of all the inexpensive used service handguns that will be dumped on the market when agencies get this more better perfection.


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[Little Creek]

[QUOTE=serialsolver;485218]Just think of all the inexpensive used service handguns that will be dumped on the market when agencies get this more better perfection.


I would be surprised if most of these "used" pistols were not chambered for 40S&W.

[60167]

I still like my 3rd Gen Glocks.

[Range1]

[QUOTE=BehindBlueI's;I know it's fun and all, but if you'll calm yourselves for just a bit before a bunch of rumors and baseless speculation spin up...real info will be available soon.[/QUOTE]

Talking with some of the guys a few days ago, asked what they thought the new Glock. Their response was "Meh, its a Glock." Did not seem very impressed with it.

[LockedBreech]

Talking with some of the guys a few days ago, asked what they thought the new Glock. Their response was "Meh, its a Glock." Did not seem very impressed with it.

One of the agencies I work with switched from the Gen3 G22 to the Gen4 G22 after their 22s started choking with the TLR-1 lights.. The vast majority I bugged and asked about the change re: the new RSA, the better grip texture, the fact that it was designed for .40 rather than adapted to it, etc. just shrugged and said that they liked the beavertail grip option. I always forget a lot of police aren't really gun guys.

[Range1]

Yeah, most officers could not care less. Just something they have to have. The guys I talked with though are definitely "gun guys" though maybe not all out Glock fans.

[Gray222]

I am late to the thread.

But.

Pix or lies.

[BehindBlueI's]

Talking with some of the guys a few days ago, asked what they thought the new Glock. Their response was "Meh, its a Glock." Did not seem very impressed with it.

I did mention early on during all of the hype that, at the end of the day, it's just another Glock. H out at the range found it to be very accurate and liked the new trigger feel, though, and said he'll likely carry it. You know he's never been a big Glock guy at all, so I was a bit surprised.

[pr1042]

I will pick one up as soon as (or if) they are available for blue label order mainly because I was already planning on buying another 17 and this saves me the money from sending it to Cold Bore to get the humps removed

[JSGlock34]

Can't help but wonder about MHS requirements driving some of these reported changes. Glock isn't altering nearly 30 years of Glock 17 barrel construction (with associated costs) without reason.

[Kram]

I will pick one up as soon as (or if) they are available for blue label order mainly because I was already planning on buying another 17 and this saves me the money from sending it to Cold Bore to get the humps removed

Same here. I was ready to pick up a 17 but will hold off a bit for the blue label 17M.

[JCS]

I will pick one up as soon as (or if) they are available for blue label order mainly because I was already planning on buying another 17 and this saves me the money from sending it to Cold Bore to get the humps removed

I can't imagine how hard it's gonna be to get a blue label one. I hope it's not like the mos currently is.


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[Default.mp3]

The screenshot was from a P&S post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/PSPrimarySecondary/permalink/1142446102468555/

On the rifling:

they said it is like a modified polygonal rifling. Similar to what Miami requested in their guns years ago, but not quite the same. Allegedly slightly more accurate.

On why no pictures:

We were supposed to have them in-hand July 31. Glock has not shipped. Current date is supposedly 08-15. We had the classroom part of the switch today.

On people who want to buy it:

Ref Gen 5. Likely to be released January(ish). Will NOT have all the features of the 17M

On possibly why the Gen5 won't have all the features of the 17M:

I *believe* it is the variant they built specifically to win the gov contract. In meeting those requirements, they may have added features they did not necessarily agree with at a corporate level (eg the flared magwell). For the contract, they will include what the client(s) want. For their general production, they'll stick to what Glock wants.

On the extended lip for the mags:

Sorry if I wasn't clear. By extended lip, I meant on the base plate. It's minute - maybe 2mm. I can't imagine old mags won't work in the 17M. It's purely there to help strip a mag, in conjunction with the magwell cutout, which sits on the front of the grip.

On the beveled magwell:

They did say Glock Austria fought the idea of a flared magwell tooth and nail.

On the RSA notch:

One more clarification. I'm no longer a Glock Armorer (since 2001, so lots of changes since then), nor am I a gunsmith. My technical terminology blows. When I said "reinforced front RSA notch," I'm talking about the circular cut out the RSA sits in, on the slide. They've beefed that area up.

On the finish:

Also, ref the tougher finish, it is pretty close to the original Tenifer. Our guys tried to scratch it with keys and cases. It made marks, but they wiped right off.

[Hauptmann]

On the rifling:

Hrmm......so probably better at gripping lead and coated bullets then. Interesting.

[ssb]

Any word on holster compatibility?

[Kram]

I can't imagine how hard it's gonna be to get a blue label one. I hope it's not like the mos currently is.


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Call or visit your local Blue Label dealer and have them start a list. It will be nuts once the gun is released as everyone will want one. The blue label Glock 43's are still hard to come by in my area.

[Totem Polar]

I did mention early on during all of the hype that, at the end of the day, it's just another Glock...

The best Glock is the one that runs, ejects well and has your sight and trigger preference dropped in. JMO.

[GRV]

Ref Gen 5. Likely to be released January(ish). Will NOT have all the features of the 17M


I *believe* it is the variant they built specifically to win the gov contract. In meeting those requirements, they may have added features they did not necessarily agree with at a corporate level (eg the flared magwell). For the contract, they will include what the client(s) want. For their general production, they'll stick to what Glock wants.


Oof... So now there's going to be significant, public "secret squirrel" versions vs. the one you can buy in the store? Eek. I don't like where that's going.

Any idea if they'll sell the M through blue label, or will it only be available on contract?

[Hot Sauce]

Ref Gen 5. Likely to be released January(ish). Will NOT have all the features of the 17M

Here come the "Because Gaston hates you" memes.

[BehindBlueI's]

Here come the "Because Gaston hates you" memes.

Sort of true. Apparently the mothership isn't impressed with "creature comfort" upgrades, much like they won't let Glock USA do a single stack .45. So I hear. From baseless speculation.

[Tamara]

Ref. the square FPS being similar to the 42/43.

I've had three people who attended Armorer's Courses in the past year independently tell me that the guy giving the class mentioned that the variety of internal parts in the various production Glocks was making the company itch and that the future of Glock would be moving everything toward a new small part standard based around the 42/43 architecture. It's water cooler gossip, but I did find it interesting to see the mention of the square FPS suddenly pop up.

[LSP972]

More Money

Thanks for that. Been needing to laugh all day. ;)

.

[Nephrology]

... much like they won't let Glock USA do a single stack .45.

:confused:

https://us.glock.com/products/model/g36

[BehindBlueI's]

:confused:

https://us.glock.com/products/model/g36

Rumor mill says at least some folks at USA Glock were pushing for a full sized option, something that would be useful in magazine limited states and would give a striker fired option to 1911/P220 markets...but mother ship said no.

[CanineCombatives]

Something else from my "seasoned" perspective to have had a front row seat since 85 watching this legacy develop, I can still remember vividly when there wasnt a chief in the nation that would touch the glock with a 20 foot pole, so much irony.
Miami PD really gets the lions share of the credit for turning the tide, and then the .40SW cartridge is what really cemented glock as the benchmark police pistol of the century, nothing prior to glock ever came close to this kind of market dominance.
After 23 years of mandatory Gaston nut cupping I'm a P320 guy now, but I'll sit back and wait for the shitstorm to die down enough to grab one, I cant even imagine the demand from the commercial market, it's going to be staggering.

[Nephrology]

Something else from my "seasoned" perspective to have had a front row seat since 85 watching this legacy develop, I can still remember vividly when there wasnt a chief in the nation that would touch the glock with a 20 foot pole, so much irony.
Miami PD really gets the lions share of the credit for turning the tide, and then the .40SW cartridge is what really cemented glock as the benchmark police pistol of the century, nothing prior to glock ever came close to this kind of market dominance.
After 23 years of mandatory Gaston nut cupping I'm a P320 guy now, but I'll sit back and wait for the shitstorm to die down enough to grab one, I cant even imagine the demand from the commercial market, it's going to be staggering.

Yeah, I will definitely be holding off until things become a little more, uh, reasonable...

[L-2]

At this time, I'd like us all to have a moment of silence...for the Glock 21SF with Picatinny Rail and ambi mag catch, which is no longer with us.

My better judgement tells me to wait two years prior to buying any new Glock. I sometimes take a risk and buy that newly introduced Glock a bit earlier. Some Glock fixes which might not have been recalls:
-new Glock connector(s) for the G42/43.
-a different RSA for certain Gen4 models as the .40 version was later deemed not ideal for 9mm versions.
-the 30274 ejector for Gen4 9mm Glocks, which on a case-by-case basis, may also cure "Brass to Face" in Gen3 models.
-a relief cut in some Gen4 models for the front of the RSA.
-a little nubbin added at the rear of the frame for beavertail Gen4 backstraps.
-the demise of the ambi mag catch and the cutouts in the front side of magazines for that catch.
-various mag changes for various models, and let's add in several mag follower changes as time goes on.
-lack of reliability for G19 10-round mags, perhaps on a case by case basis.
-lack of reliability on a case by case basis with Gen3 guns with weapon lights mounted.
-various changes to some trigger bars.

There must be other things I can't think of as I sit here typing. When there are changes, it's usually a good thing to improve reliability, but it indicates, perhaps, a lack of thorough testing. Maybe this is just the way things have to be in a competitive, fast-paced, world of business and marketing.

I'm hoping the FBI (and taxpayers) and whatever other agencies buying this new FBI-contract-Glock don't get burned with a new design. Now that I think about it, any agency should issue the new guns, but let the employees keep their present guns. As I recall from computer/IT systems, it's "running in parallel" aka "parallel running". It's not a good thing when you're about to go to work on a Friday night and find your gun is broken. The range staff has gone home for the weekend (maybe a 3-day weekend) and may need to be called in just to issue another gun to one employee. The alternative could mean that employee "rides the desk" for the next few days without a working firearm to use. I'm just thinking out loud here.

[GJM]

Yeah, I will definitely be holding off until things become a little more, uh, reasonable...

What is reasonable for you, $200 over MSRP?

[Nephrology]

What is reasonable for you, $200 over MSRP?

I was thinking some non life sustaining piece of my firstborn. They only need one kidney, anyway.


At this time, I'd like us all to have a moment of silence...for the Glock 21SF with Picatinny Rail and ambi mag catch, which is no longer with us.

I almost bought one of those. Sometimes I wake up in the dead of night, drenched in sweat and nearly in tears, convinced that I actually went through with it.

[Mjolnir]

Sounds like someone is trying to create a VP9 of sorts.

No bad thing, mind you.

If I were running product development I would have, too.


-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[Tamara]

-the demise of the ambi mag catch and the cutouts in the front side of magazines for that catch.

That was done to chase a .mil contract that never materialized. When the contract went away, so did the more-complex mags/mag releases.

[L-2]

That was done to chase a .mil contract that never materialized. When the contract went away, so did the more-complex mags/mag releases.
In the back of my mind, I have this fear regarding this FBI contract.

The subject, forthcoming two Glocks are in response to this Fed contract which, in this case, did materialize.

Before I forget, I'm not having a lot of confidence in the FBI tonight (Judge Jeanine P. is on TV in the background as I type this).
I don't understand why an existing COTS (commercial off the shelf) handgun wasn't selected again as it's been for me at the local level.
I do understand an $85M contract can buy some amount of customization and exclusivity, but let's not forget we're just talking two sizes of 9mm handgun.

I don't even understand why now was the time to convert from .40 to 9mm instead of a couple years later when/if any potential Gen5 is introduced.

I know I'm just one taxpayer and I don't get to know all the reasons why something is happening.

But if it was time, as it was for where I work, why not just go with the existing COTS G17Gen4 (and G19Gen4, for the other desired issued size).
I'm concerned the FBI is now going to be the Beta-tester for some parts which may be incorporated into a forthcoming Gen5.
Perhaps Glock should have donated all the guns to the FBI to get a great sample size for future firearms to be later sold. Maybe the Feds needed D. Trump to negotiate this contract.

Arguing with myself, perhaps the Feds are getting a good unit price (someone knows what the unit prices are, but I don't) and getting possible Gen5 features before anybody else at the same time. I'll likely be using my issued G17Gen4 another 10 years regardless of how nice it might be to always have the latest versions of firearms on the market. I'm actually quite satisfied with my G17Gen4 model for a duty gun.

These are just my thoughts as I fall asleep for the night.

[Duces Tecum]

After 23 years of mandatory Gaston nut cupping . . .

The fellow down the block wants to know, what is "nut cupping", and if it is something kinky you have to pay for, who provides the service?

[GJM]

In the back of my mind, I have this fear regarding this FBI contract.

The subject, forthcoming two Glocks are in response to this Fed contract which, in this case, did materialize.

Before I forget, I'm not having a lot of confidence in the FBI tonight (Judge Jeanine P. is on TV in the background as I type this).
I don't understand why an existing COTS (commercial off the shelf) handgun wasn't selected again as it's been for me at the local level.
I do understand an $85M contract can buy some amount of customization and exclusivity, but let's not forget we're just talking two sizes of 9mm handgun.

I don't even understand why now was the time to convert from .40 to 9mm instead of a couple years later when/if any potential Gen5 is introduced.

I know I'm just one taxpayer and I don't get to know all the reasons why something is happening.

But if it was time, as it was for where I work, why not just go with the existing COTS G17Gen4 (and G19Gen4, for the other desired issued size).
I'm concerned the FBI is now going to be the Beta-tester for some parts which may be incorporated into a forthcoming Gen5.
Perhaps Glock should have donated all the guns to the FBI to get a great sample size for future firearms to be later sold. Maybe the Feds needed D. Trump to negotiate this contract.

Arguing with myself, perhaps the Feds are getting a good unit price (someone knows what the unit prices are, but I don't) and getting possible Gen5 features before anybody else at the same time. I'll likely be using my issued G17Gen4 another 10 years regardless of how nice it might be to always have the latest versions of firearms on the market. I'm actually quite satisfied with my G17Gen4 model for a duty gun.

These are just my thoughts as I fall asleep for the night.

In about a year, we will know whether these were just minor cosmetic changes, or significant modifications that bring with them all the normal growing pains of major mods coming into service.

I am delighted the FBI will be beta testing this, as their comprehensive approach will likely identify any issues quickly, and they have the clout to get any problems resolved quickly. By the time the M models filter down to the public, they should be pretty mature.

[BehindBlueI's]

Arguing with myself, perhaps the Feds are getting a good unit price (someone knows what the unit prices are, but I don't) and getting possible Gen5 features before anybody else at the same time.

I don't know what unit price the feds got, but the price we got was good enough it moved the time line from "maybe in 2-3 years" to "right now". I've already mentioned we're beta testing for the feebs. Open mind. Open mind. Open mind...

[CanineCombatives]

The fellow down the block wants to know, what is "nut cupping", and if it is something kinky you have to pay for, who provides the service?

In the porn industry they call it "fluffing", forgive me for not expounding, point being I never had the glock love that so many of my peers did, at the time it became mandatory they had to drag me kicking and screaming away from my beloved P226, which is why when the P320 came along it was like devine providence, a P226 that was always cocked......

[Totem Polar]

My better judgement tells me to wait two years prior to buying any new Glock. I sometimes take a risk and buy that newly introduced Glock a bit earlier. Some Glock fixes which might not have been recalls:
-new Glock connector(s) for the G42/43.
-a different RSA for certain Gen4 models as the .40 version was later deemed not ideal for 9mm versions.
-the 30274 ejector for Gen4 9mm Glocks, which on a case-by-case basis, may also cure "Brass to Face" in Gen3 models.
-a relief cut in some Gen4 models for the front of the RSA.
-a little nubbin added at the rear of the frame for beavertail Gen4 backstraps.
-the demise of the ambi mag catch and the cutouts in the front side of magazines for that catch.
-various mag changes for various models, and let's add in several mag follower changes as time goes on.
-lack of reliability for G19 10-round mags, perhaps on a case by case basis.
-lack of reliability on a case by case basis with Gen3 guns with weapon lights mounted.
-various changes to some trigger bars.

There must be other things I can't think of as I sit here typing. When there are changes, it's usually a good thing to improve reliability, but it indicates, perhaps, a lack of thorough testing. Maybe this is just the way things have to be in a competitive, fast-paced, world of business and marketing...
You forgot a different trigger spring/ejector housing, slide stop, and magazines for the 42. And, interestingly, it was the Feebs, IIRC, who first identified problems with WMLs and .40, specifically 180 gr JHPs. My local PD used the Feds as a resource to sort that one out. In all, however, your Glock "not a recall" kung fu is impressive.

[Greg]

In the porn industry they call it "fluffing", forgive me for not expounding, point being I never had the glock love that so many of my peers did, at the time it became mandatory they had to drag me kicking and screaming away from my beloved P226, which is why when the P320 came along it was like devine providence, a P226 that was always cocked......

More like a P250 that was always cocked. (My alloy framed Sigs wanted me to type that)

[Moshjath]

In the back of my mind, I have this fear regarding this FBI contract.

The subject, forthcoming two Glocks are in response to this Fed contract which, in this case, did materialize.

Before I forget, I'm not having a lot of confidence in the FBI tonight (Judge Jeanine P. is on TV in the background as I type this).
I don't understand why an existing COTS (commercial off the shelf) handgun wasn't selected again as it's been for me at the local level.
I do understand an $85M contract can buy some amount of customization and exclusivity, but let's not forget we're just talking two sizes of 9mm handgun.

I don't even understand why now was the time to convert from .40 to 9mm instead of a couple years later when/if any potential Gen5 is introduced.

I know I'm just one taxpayer and I don't get to know all the reasons why something is happening.

But if it was time, as it was for where I work, why not just go with the existing COTS G17Gen4 (and G19Gen4, for the other desired issued size).
I'm concerned the FBI is now going to be the Beta-tester for some parts which may be incorporated into a forthcoming Gen5.
Perhaps Glock should have donated all the guns to the FBI to get a great sample size for future firearms to be later sold. Maybe the Feds needed D. Trump to negotiate this contract.

Arguing with myself, perhaps the Feds are getting a good unit price (someone knows what the unit prices are, but I don't) and getting possible Gen5 features before anybody else at the same time. I'll likely be using my issued G17Gen4 another 10 years regardless of how nice it might be to always have the latest versions of firearms on the market. I'm actually quite satisfied with my G17Gen4 model for a duty gun.

These are just my thoughts as I fall asleep for the night.

I think it's covered at some point in the FBI 9mm pistol solicitation thread that the FBI originally tried to COTS acquire G17s and G19s, but legally they had to have an open competition.

Glock could have submitted a G17/G19 Gen 4 with minor changes (no finger grooves, extended baseplate), the above and beyond changes that they have made are on them as a corporation for the competition. With the bellwether nature of the Bureau for firearms trends, it is completely reasonable if forced into an open competition for the purchase that they ask for exactly what they want, not tie their acquisition to a hypothetical Gen 5 glock release.

[JSGlock34]

I don't understand why an existing COTS (commercial off the shelf) handgun wasn't selected again as it's been for me at the local level.
I do understand an $85M contract can buy some amount of customization and exclusivity, but let's not forget we're just talking two sizes of 9mm handgun.

But if it was time, as it was for where I work, why not just go with the existing COTS G17Gen4 (and G19Gen4, for the other desired issued size).
I'm concerned the FBI is now going to be the Beta-tester for some parts which may be incorporated into a forthcoming Gen5.
Perhaps Glock should have donated all the guns to the FBI to get a great sample size for future firearms to be later sold. Maybe the Feds needed D. Trump to negotiate this contract.


Glock could have submitted a G17/G19 Gen 4 with minor changes (no finger grooves, extended baseplate), the above and beyond changes that they have made are on them as a corporation for the competition. With the bellwether nature of the Bureau for firearms trends, it is completely reasonable if forced into an open competition for the purchase that they ask for exactly what they want, not tie their acquisition to a hypothetical Gen 5 glock release.

I think there is an assumption here that the FBI RFP drove the development of this particular Glock pistol, and Glock as a corporation went out on a limb introducing additional features. I'm doubtful. The small size of the contract wouldn't merit this level of investment by Glock (nor change to their long lasting and successful corporate strategy). And the minor changes to the Glock design requested by FBI, which amount to eliminating finger grooves from the frame and providing an extended magazine floor plate, could easily have been met with a slightly modified GEN4.

The FBI did not require an ambidextrous slide release, yet this pistol reportedly has one. That's not a minor design change. What's driving that?

Seems to me that Glock submitted their XM17/MHS design to the FBI competition. And it apparently did quite well.

[Moshjath]

I think there is an assumption here that the FBI RFP drove the development of this particular Glock pistol, and Glock as a corporation went out on a limb introducing additional features. I'm doubtful. The small size of the contract wouldn't merit this level of investment by Glock (nor change to their long lasting and successful corporate strategy). And the minor changes to the Glock design requested by FBI, which amount to eliminating finger grooves from the frame and providing an extended magazine floor plate, could easily have been met with a slightly modified GEN4.

The FBI did not require an ambidextrous slide release, yet this pistol reportedly has one. That's not a minor design change. What's driving that?

Seems to me that Glock submitted their XM17/MHS design to the FBI competition. And it apparently did quite well.

That makes sense, I didn't take the MHS into account. Sure would be nice to see more details about the MHS entrants emerge. What I was getting at was that The FBI had to hold an open competition rather than a COTS purchase, and it seems they got a pretty good product out of it. Folks can only benefit from that, especially since they had to spend the money anyway.

[JSGlock34]

Personally, I'm interested to see detailed pictures of the new frame to see if there is any evidence of changes that would accomodate the installation of a manual safety. Like the plugs in the M&P frame.

I also suspect that somewhere the Army is testing a G22M, considering reports indicated Glock submitted both a 17 and 22 for the XM17 competition.

[Nephrology]

Personally, I'm interested to see detailed pictures of the new frame to see if there is any evidence of changes that would accomodate the installation of a manual safety. Like the plugs in the M&P frame.

I also suspect that somewhere the Army is testing a G22M, considering reports indicated Glock submitted both a 17 and 22 for the XM17 competition.

Didn't their request ask for a .40 caliber and 9mm version of each pistol? Might be misremembering.

[mcantu]

I see that Glock is bringing back the magwell cutouts. Does anyone know why and when they got rid of them in the first place? My Gen2 has them and I know I've seen some Gen3's with them as well

[pr1042]

I can't imagine how hard it's gonna be to get a blue label one. I hope it's not like the mos currently is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

May be wrong but I think the bigger rush will be for the 19 than the 17. Or, may get lucky and most people will think that it's not worth getting a new gun for and then just have to worry about being stuck behind large agency orders

[JSGlock34]

Didn't their request ask for a .40 caliber and 9mm version of each pistol? Might be misremembering.

The XM17 MHS RFP is not as transparent as the FBI document, and there are still aspects that have not been made public. But the caliber specification has always been ambiguous, and to my knowledge .40 wasn't specified as a required alternative caliber (though clearly industry moved in that direction with their submissions).

[GRV]

17M :confused:.........M17 :eek:

[HCM]

Didn't their request ask for a .40 caliber and 9mm version of each pistol? Might be misremembering.

The MHS left caliber "open".

[HCM]

In the back of my mind, I have this fear regarding this FBI contract.

The subject, forthcoming two Glocks are in response to this Fed contract which, in this case, did materialize.

Before I forget, I'm not having a lot of confidence in the FBI tonight (Judge Jeanine P. is on TV in the background as I type this).
I don't understand why an existing COTS (commercial off the shelf) handgun wasn't selected again as it's been for me at the local level.
I do understand an $85M contract can buy some amount of customization and exclusivity, but let's not forget we're just talking two sizes of 9mm handgun.

I don't even understand why now was the time to convert from .40 to 9mm instead of a couple years later when/if any potential Gen5 is introduced.

I know I'm just one taxpayer and I don't get to know all the reasons why something is happening.

But if it was time, as it was for where I work, why not just go with the existing COTS G17Gen4 (and G19Gen4, for the other desired issued size).
I'm concerned the FBI is now going to be the Beta-tester for some parts which may be incorporated into a forthcoming Gen5.
Perhaps Glock should have donated all the guns to the FBI to get a great sample size for future firearms to be later sold. Maybe the Feds needed D. Trump to negotiate this contract.

Arguing with myself, perhaps the Feds are getting a good unit price (someone knows what the unit prices are, but I don't) and getting possible Gen5 features before anybody else at the same time. I'll likely be using my issued G17Gen4 another 10 years regardless of how nice it might be to always have the latest versions of firearms on the market. I'm actually quite satisfied with my G17Gen4 model for a duty gun.

These are just my thoughts as I fall asleep for the night.

Federal acquisition and contracting rules, particularly for larger contracts are FAR different than state / local level purchasing

As noted elsewhere, when the FBI realized their Gen3 .40 cals were getting long in the tooth and made the decision to go 9mm, they did initially try to buy COTS Gen4 Glock 19's and 17s. This was the subject of protests based on federal acquisition and contracting rules.

The FBI would have to go through the same RFP and testing / selection process for a COTS gun. If you have to do all that anyway, you may as well ask for what you want in the RFP.

In addition to the FBI, DHS ICE is still testing striker fired 9mm handguns to replace .40 cal SIG 229DAKs. This contract will be about 5k guns larger than the FBI contract.

That said, my money is on the 17/19M being primarily designed with the Military MHS contract in mind.

[TiroFijo]

All this talk and excitement reminds me of the good old days of Guns & Blammo featuring a "new and improved" 1911 in every cover...

[JSGlock34]

All this talk and excitement reminds me of the good old days of Guns & Blammo featuring a "new and improved" 1911 in every cover...

Reminds me of the XM9 trials of my youth...

[Nephrology]

Reminds me of the XM9 trials of my youth...

http://i.imgur.com/66EV7ZS.jpg

[Inkwell 41]

http://i.imgur.com/66EV7ZS.jpg

Noooooooooooo................................

[JSGlock34]

Pffft...I was already in the Army when they were mucking around with the XM29 OICW. No, no, my misspent youth was during the Advanced Combat Rifle (ACR) years, which certainly kept a number of writers in business churning out updates in the gun rags of the day. And I tried to read every single one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVRyY5QH9Lo

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/guns/images/8/89/6a00d834515cf969e200e54f4c821a8834-500wi.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091104180450

[Nephrology]

Pffft...I was already in the Army when they were mucking around with the XM29 OICW. No, no, my misspent youth was during the Advanced Combat Rifle (ACR) years, which certainly kept a number of writers in business churning out updates in the gun rags of the day. And I tried to read every single one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVRyY5QH9Lo

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/guns/images/8/89/6a00d834515cf969e200e54f4c821a8834-500wi.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091104180450

OOohhh I remember that one. Didn't they try to work up flechette rounds for general issue?

[Willard]

Amazing how much money we've spent and credibility we've lost with military arms trials. We were going down this path a few years before I retired with a new USAF handgun, which Army opposed. Now they want same. Lots of rice bowls, politics, and other considerations involved that don't necessarily involve best interests of the frontline troop. Sad state of affairs. Perhaps if military gets involved in a significant enough kerfuffle we'll replace the old with new. Otherwise, I don't expect much beyond wasted money. As hamstrung as govt is, I don't know the answer or if one is even needed.

[JSGlock34]

OOohhh I remember that one. Didn't they try to work up flechette rounds for general issue?

Yep!

https://i.imgur.com/brn2w4f.jpg

[Trajan]

Ref. the square FPS being similar to the 42/43.

I've had three people who attended Armorer's Courses in the past year independently tell me that the guy giving the class mentioned that the variety of internal parts in the various production Glocks was making the company itch and that the future of Glock would be moving everything toward a new small part standard based around the 42/43 architecture. It's water cooler gossip, but I did find it interesting to see the mention of the square FPS suddenly pop up.

That is what I have heard aswell.

[BehindBlueI's]

The pistols were supposed to land today. I've texted an armorer to see if they arrived as scheduled.

[KentuckyWindage]

The pistols were supposed to land today. I've texted an armorer to see if they arrived as scheduled.

:cool:

[Gray222]

The pistols were supposed to land today. I've texted an armorer to see if they arrived as scheduled.

pix or lies

[Tamara]

The pistols were supposed to land today. I've texted an armorer to see if they arrived as scheduled.

My new inside contact at Iggle Crick was not ate up with hopefulness at lunch last Friday.

[Hambo]

Hands over eyes, Hambo says, "Let me guess. Boxy square-ish slide, plastic frame with mini grenade checkering, .356" bore..."

[LockedBreech]

I feel like a very specific kind of kid waiting for a very specialized Christmas.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I feel like a very specific kind of kid waiting for a very specialized Christmas.

And so Santa is going to bring you a Goodwill bicycle that's the same old thing, just repainted with one new tire....

[LockedBreech]

And so Santa is going to bring you a Goodwill bicycle that's the same old thing, just repainted with one new tire....

Just like I always wanted


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Arbninftry]

The Internet has not been broken, yet. So I am guessing not today, maybe some time in the fall.:cool:

[Devildog70]

They are in, at least partially. Balance are due 09-15.

[GRV]

And so Santa is going to bring you a Goodwill bicycle that's the same old thing, just repainted with one new tire....

"As long as it doesn't have finger grooves."

Am I doing it right?

[finslayer83]

From ARF

http://i.imgur.com/PcNv7kr.jpg

[BehindBlueI's]

My new inside contact at Iggle Crick was not ate up with hopefulness at lunch last Friday.

My buddy's shift starts in a few. If I don't hear from him in a few I'll re-pester him. Wow, my "s" key is sticking and that re-pester was something quite different in tone and meaning before I fixed it...

[Totem Polar]

From ARF

http://i.imgur.com/PcNv7kr.jpg

I love you bro, but this is the most disappointing insider spy pic in the history of ever.^^^
:D :D

[okie john]

I love you bro, but this is the most disappointing insider spy pic in the history of ever.^^^
:D :D

Clearly Photoshopped.


Okie John

[Devildog70]

Clearly Photoshopped.


Okie John

LOL. Ok.

[BehindBlueI's]

Arrival is confirmed.

[Nephrology]

Arrival is confirmed.

Photos are...inbound...? Being uploaded as we speak? in the mail? Please?

[172driver]

Photos are...inbound...? Being uploaded as we speak? in the mail? Please?

^^^^Pretty please??

[Devildog70]

The range guys will not be posting any anytime soon. They have been asked not to. However, the first ones are being issued today, which means in the next day or two, someone will probably post some up.

[Totem Polar]

Arrival is confirmed.

Dude. You're a detective. You pull suspects out of vapor, ethers, confusion, and fragments of HUMINT. I have faith in your ability to make this thread deliver.
;)

[El Viajero]

I feel like a kid at Christmas.

[serialsolver]

Dude. You're a detective. You pull suspects out of vapor, ethers, confusion, and fragments of HUMINT. I have faith in your ability to make this thread deliver.
;)

Dude, he's a detective. That means he just sits in the office and talks on the phone and serfs the net when he's wake or not eating. That's what I was told I did when I was a defective.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BehindBlueI's]

I have photos, but was asked not to post them. Can confirm no forward cocking serrations...

[Nephrology]

I have photos, but was asked not to post them. Can confirm no forward cocking serrations...

Anything else you can confirm?

[Wayne Dobbs]

Dude, he's a detective. That means he just sits in the office and talks on the phone and serfs the net when he's wake or not eating. That's what I was told I did when I was a defective.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True dat. I was taught as a young Detective that a good Det. never gets wet and never misses lunch. I turned out to be a bad Detective (for 18 years).

[cpd2110]

I have seen it, it does exist. Hold on to your asses for this next part......it looks exactly like a Glock. I did not orgasm at the sight of it however so I was disappointed. Looks like a gen 2 with a darker finish (might be the pic). Same grip treatment that's on gen 4's is on the m17 without finger grooves. Definitely has a cut out in front strap like my gen 2 does. Might detect a mild flare on the grip flats. Again the pic isn't great so it's hard to tell. Really can't say more as I've not seen one in hand.

[El Cid]

Can confirm no forward cocking serrations...

Thank god! :D

[StraitR]

So, Glock will not make the 17M available for commercial sale and the changes will not be part of a Gen5, or am I reading that wrong?

Reference Default.mp3's post #73 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?21787-Details-out-on-Glock-17M&p=485266&viewfull=1#post485266)

9884

[breakingtime91]

Just a glock he says! It can not be the same thing we have been seeing! Oh shit, it's just a glock... I really do hope they remedy some of the issues that came around from the Gen 4 and get back to what they used to be. the new frame sounds cool

[BehindBlueI's]

Anything else you can confirm?

It's black, looks like a Glock...says 17m on the side...

[StraitR]

Anything else you can confirm?


It's black, looks like a Glock...says 17m on the side...

Oh, and you can't have one. :p

[GJM]

Just a glock he says! It can not be the same thing we have been seeing! Oh shit, it's just a glock... I really do hope they remedy some of the issues that came around from the Gen 4 and get back to what they used to be. the new frame sounds cool

From 2015/2016 manufacture, all Gen 4, I have one G26, 2 G34 MOS, 2 G17 MOS, 3 G19 MOS, 3 G19 (non MOS) and 1 G23 models, and have yet to have had a single stoppage in any of them. They all shoot much more accurately than typical Gen 3 pistols. I hope they don't change any of that except improve the stock trigger.

[JHC]

From 2015/2016 manufacture, all Gen 4, I have one G26, 2 G34 MOS, 2 G17 MOS, 3 G19 MOS, 3 G19 (non MOS) and 1 G23 models, and have yet to have had a single stoppage in any of them. They all shoot much more accurately than typical Gen 3 pistols. I hope they don't change any of that except improve the stock trigger.

Same here but includes our 2010 guns. But this "M" is just a plain old Glock which is apparently all it took to smoke the trials.

[LockedBreech]

I'll grab one, if my LEO FFL can come through. I want a 17 to pair with my 19G4 anyway, might as well be the new hotness version.

Generally I don't beta test, but I'd do anything to be the coolest guy on an internet forum of people I'll probably never meet.

[cpd2110]

Just a glock he says! It can not be the same thing we have been seeing! Oh shit, it's just a glock... I really do hope they remedy some of the issues that came around from the Gen 4 and get back to what they used to be. the new frame sounds cool

My comment was sarcasm. I think the difference will be in performance if the rumors of a big upgrade in accuracy but still reliable are true. On the pic you can tell the slide is beveled/tapered similar to a G34.

[Beat Trash]

If and when blue label Goal 17M and 19M's are available, I'll buy one of each. Just because...

I had planned on picking up another Gen4 Glock 19 and a Gen4 Glock 17. But I'll hold off until the M's are available, or to see what the Gen5 involves.

[breakingtime91]

My comment was sarcasm. I think the difference will be in performance if the rumors of a big upgrade in accuracy but still reliable are true. On the pic you can tell the slide is beveled/tapered similar to a G34.

so was mine.. sorry guys didn't mean to mess up your feel good party :eek:

[breakingtime91]

From 2015/2016 manufacture, all Gen 4, I have one G26, 2 G34 MOS, 2 G17 MOS, 3 G19 MOS, 3 G19 (non MOS) and 1 G23 models, and have yet to have had a single stoppage in any of them. They all shoot much more accurately than typical Gen 3 pistols. I hope they don't change any of that except improve the stock trigger.

Thats great, couple of my friends (2015 and on) have had issues with BTF. Never said anything about them malfunctioning, just that they had issues.

[GJM]

Thats great, couple of my friends (2015 and on) have had issues with BTF. Never said anything about them malfunctioning, just that they had issues.

They will never eject/extract as robustly as an HK, Beretta or CZ.

[BehindBlueI's]

Comparing to my G22:

Front sight looks the same, I know there was some worry it would be dovetail.

There is only one pin behind the disassembly latch thingy on the new one, vs two on the G22.

Slide stop and trigger guard appear unchanged.

Grip is, of course, no finger groove but texture looks the same.

The bottom of the grip is flared out a bit for the mag funnel.

Slide looks the same, including same rear serrations and sights.

Magazine release is either a touch shorter or has a longer smooth area in front of the grooved area, tough to tell which from the photo. The old one has 9 grooves. The new one has 7 grooves.

Ejector appears the same.

It does have ambi slide release.

The "made in Austria..." stamp is low on the right side of the grip, where it says "patent pending" on my G22, not up near the slide.

[breakingtime91]

They will never eject/extract as robustly as an HK, Beretta or CZ.

So we're cool with brass to the face now? If so I won't chalk it up in the issue column.

[Nephrology]

Comparing to my G22:

Front sight looks the same, I know there was some worry it would be dovetail.

There is only one pin behind the disassembly latch thingy on the new one, vs two on the G22.

Slide stop and trigger guard appear unchanged.

Grip is, of course, no finger groove but texture looks the same.

The bottom of the grip is flared out a bit for the mag funnel.

Slide looks the same, including same rear serrations and sights.

Magazine release is either a touch shorter or has a longer smooth area in front of the grooved area, tough to tell which from the photo. The old one has 9 grooves. The new one has 7 grooves.

Ejector appears the same.

It does have ambi slide release.

The "made in Austria..." stamp is low on the right side of the grip, where it says "patent pending" on my G22, not up near the slide.

Does the new mag release look like this?

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/G17week20-profile.jpg

[JHC]

So we're cool with brass to the face now? If so I won't chalk it up in the issue column.

Exactly! It's not a bug it's a feature! Makes shooter hard. ;)

Good question for Surf who reported here on fielding 1700 Gen 4 G17 s without issue. Helluva sample size. Must have counted BTF as a feature right? :D

[BehindBlueI's]

Does the new mag release look like this?

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/G17week20-profile.jpg

Yup.

[Nephrology]

Yup.

Those are already available now for Gen 4 pistols - they are the so called "FBI" mag release. I have them on all of my Gen 4s - great part.

[john c]

It seems to me like bad OPSEC to have a special, FBI only Glock model. Doesn't this ID anybody carrying one as an FBI agent?

I figured if this went into mass production, in a year the issue would fade to irrelevance. I guess that's not going to happen.

[matt7184]

It seems to me like bad OPSEC to have a special, FBI only Glock model. Doesn't this ID anybody carrying one as an FBI agent?

I figured if this went into mass production, in a year the issue would fade to irrelevance. I guess that's not going to happen.

Most people wouldn't even notice the difference. If you can see their gun, I'm sure the FBI badges will also give away who they work for.

[BehindBlueI's]

Oh, and S/N is specific to our department, as the acronym for our PD is part of the serial number, same as our Gen 4s.

[El Cid]

Comparing to my G22:

Front sight looks the same, I know there was some worry it would be dovetail.

There is only one pin behind the disassembly latch thingy on the new one, vs two on the G22.

Slide stop and trigger guard appear unchanged.

Grip is, of course, no finger groove but texture looks the same.

The bottom of the grip is flared out a bit for the mag funnel.

Slide looks the same, including same rear serrations and sights.

Magazine release is either a touch shorter or has a longer smooth area in front of the grooved area, tough to tell which from the photo. The old one has 9 grooves. The new one has 7 grooves.

Ejector appears the same.

It does have ambi slide release.

The "made in Austria..." stamp is low on the right side of the grip, where it says "patent pending" on my G22, not up near the slide.

Front of slide is rounded off the way 34 and 26 slides are done.

[Nephrology]

Most people wouldn't even notice the difference. If you can see their gun, I'm sure the FBI badges will also give away who they work for.

and/or the fact that you are staring down a .356" hole in the muzzle while they are announcing the name of their agency...

[Wondering Beard]

So, we have a new Glock, pretty much like the old Glock but with some differences. That's nice to know, but nobody seems to know why it's an M model?

[GJM]

While I don't think it is a feature, as long as I can remember, Glocks have sprinkled brass around, especially with lower power factor range ammo. When I first met YVK, we were at a TLG class. He was shooting a Gen 3 19, and I pointed out to him that it was sprinkling brass all around. He said, yep it has been doing it for 15,000 rounds, during which time he had never had a stoppage.

I don't argue that Glock screwed up their extractors, both Gen 3 and 4, around the time the Gen 4 was introduced. That caused real stoppages, and an intense focus on Glock ejection/extraction followed. The stoppages largely got fixed, but not the erratic ejection/extraction, which probably never will be fixed without a major redesign of the pistol.

Each of the different platforms have their pluses and minuses, and with Glock sprinkling brass is just the way it is.

[Totem Polar]

Comparing to my G22:


There is only one pin behind the disassembly latch thingy on the new one, vs two on the G22.



Far out. G42/43 creep? That also makes sense with the ambi slide lock.

[Devildog70]

"M" = Modified

[breakingtime91]

While I don't think it is a feature, as long as I can remember, Glocks have sprinkled brass around, especially with lower power factor range ammo. When I first met YVK, we were at a TLG class. He was shooting a Gen 3 19, and I pointed out to him that it was sprinkling brass all around. He said, yep it has been doing it for 15,000 rounds, during which time he had never had a stoppage.

I don't argue that Glock screwed up their extractors, both Gen 3 and 4, around the time the Gen 4 was introduced. That caused real stoppages, and an intense focus on Glock ejection/extraction followed. The stoppages largely got fixed, but not the erratic ejection/extraction, which probably never will be fixed without a major redesign of the pistol.

Each of the different platforms have their pluses and minuses, and with Glock sprinkling brass is just the way it is.

So are we talking erratic ejection or the glocks that pelt the shooters with brass consistently like almost 100% of the time.

[okie john]

I can't help but think that maybe we'll get some more useful variations once Gaston leaves the range. Kinda like what happened when Bill Ruger checked out.


Okie John

[BehindBlueI's]

I can't help but think that maybe we'll get some more useful variations once Gaston leaves the range. Kinda like what happened when Bill Ruger checked out.


Okie John

Harsh...but true.

[StraitR]

My comment was sarcasm. I think the difference will be in performance if the rumors of a big upgrade in accuracy but still reliable are true. On the pic you can tell the slide is beveled/tapered similar to a G34.

I understand you're speculating, but hopefully everyone can agree that it is WAY too early to assume anything based on spec sheets and rumors. This should be especially obvious given the growing pains from late Gen 3 to Gen 4 models coupled with their still lingering issues. There are a lot of Glocks out there with aftermarket parts created to address said growing pains and issues. We even have a thread stickied for this very reason.

[JSGlock34]

Could subcompacts still be imported for civilian sales without finger grooves (I'm thinking GCA68 point calculations)? I wonder if a commercial G19M would have to be entirely produced in the USA, and what the domestic manufacturing capacity is. Such issues could drive limitations on civilian sales.

I'm curious to hear more about the frame, particularly the accommodations for the ambidextrous slide release. Also, any indications towards the rear of the frame that could suggest manual safety preparation (for the MHS competition)?

[Wondering Beard]

"M" = Modified

Thank you

[StraitR]

Exactly! It's not a bug it's a feature! Makes shooter hard. ;)

Good question for Surf who reported here on fielding 1700 Gen 4 G17 s without issue. Helluva sample size. Must have counted BTF as a feature right? :D

And this is my biggest concern with Glock currently. There will be all kinds of people (including people on this board) having issues with new production guns, then all of a sudden somebody fields 1700 problem free models, then back to a batch of problems. I certainly believe Surf, 100%, and his experience validates the concern. So, why the spottiness? The worst are those whose issues don't manifest until reaching a round count that would otherwise indicate a proven, problem free pistol.

[Tamara]

Far out. G42/43 creep? That also makes sense with the ambi slide lock.

That's Glock 17 native all through Gen1 & Gen2. They added the second pin for the .40s but the 17s didn't get 'em until the Gen3 guns. I'm with you in guessing its disappearance is tied to the ambi slide lock.

[cpd2110]

I understand you're speculating, but hopefully everyone can agree that it is WAY too early to assume anything based on spec sheets and rumors. This should be especially obvious given the growing pains from late Gen 3 to Gen 4 models coupled with their still lingering issues. There are a lot of Glocks out there with aftermarket parts created to address said growing pains and issues. We even have a thread stickied for this very reason.

I agree, I should of said I hope it has improved performance. Having said that we have had no issues with our gen 4's they are 2012 vintage. Our gen 3's however did have issues.

[Nephrology]

While I don't think it is a feature, as long as I can remember, Glocks have sprinkled brass around, especially with lower power factor range ammo. When I first met YVK, we were at a TLG class. He was shooting a Gen 3 19, and I pointed out to him that it was sprinkling brass all around. He said, yep it has been doing it for 15,000 rounds, during which time he had never had a stoppage.

I don't argue that Glock screwed up their extractors, both Gen 3 and 4, around the time the Gen 4 was introduced. That caused real stoppages, and an intense focus on Glock ejection/extraction followed. The stoppages largely got fixed, but not the erratic ejection/extraction, which probably never will be fixed without a major redesign of the pistol.

Each of the different platforms have their pluses and minuses, and with Glock sprinkling brass is just the way it is.


So are we talking erratic ejection or the glocks that pelt the shooters with brass consistently like almost 100% of the time.

My 2007 vintage G19 (one of the so called good years) sends brass back to my head quite often. My 2015 Gen 4 19 has basically never done this. I agree with GJM - it's inherent to the way the gun is designed and happened to get dramatically worse around the introduction of the 4th gens.

I still don't really think it's a big issue. It feeds and functions, was cheap and is an eminently shootable gun. I've never pulled a shot or been injured because of it. YMMV.

[Tamara]

Could subcompacts still be imported for civilian sales without finger grooves (I'm thinking GCA68 point calculations)? I wonder if a commercial G19M would have to be entirely produced in the USA, and what the domestic manufacturing capacity is. Such issues could drive limitations on civilian sales.

I'm curious to hear more about the frame, particularly the accommodations for the ambidextrous slide release. Also, any indications towards the rear of the frame that could suggest manual safety preparation (for the MHS competition)?

The finger grooves (along with the little "thumbrest" divots) arrived with the G26/27, in order to give them import points for "target grips".
The Glock 17/22 have smooth triggers while the 19/23 have serrated "target" triggers, again for import points.

[Tamara]

I can't help but think that maybe we'll get some more useful variations once Gaston leaves the range. Kinda like what happened when Bill Ruger checked out.


Okie John

Maybe then the prayers of the GT faithful will be answered after these long years by a Glock carbine. :D

[Duces Tecum]

So, Glock will not make the 17M available for commercial sale and the changes will not be part of a Gen5, or am I reading that wrong?

It's hard to believe the 17M won't leak into the commercial markets. Really, really hard.

[BehindBlueI's]

It's hard to believe the 17M won't leak into the commercial markets. Really, really hard.

I agree, but that's what the rumor mill from T&E suggests.

[El Cid]

It's hard to believe the 17M won't leak into the commercial markets. Really, really hard.

In 10 or 20 years the state and local agencies can sell them. Or their retired officers who buy them could sell them. The fed guns will be melted unless we get a new POTUS who rights Clinton's wrong by EO.

[Tackleberry40sw]

It's hard to believe the 17M won't leak into the commercial markets. Really, really hard.

This pistol is more under wraps than Hillary's emails.

[StraitR]

This pistol is more under wraps than Hillary's emails.

So you're saying the Russians will have it before anyone else, got it.

[Nephrology]

So you're saying the Russians will have it before anyone else, got it.

:confused:

http://i.imgur.com/mtXTQcc.jpg

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm rather surprised no one has posted a photo during lunch at in-service yet. Maybe they are asking everyone to refrain from doing so, dunno.

[Kyle Reese]

May as well get on the Blue Label list now...

[Devildog70]

BehindBluel's - because 95% (or more) of the department doesn't care. The ones that do care may not be active in forums, and the ones that care and are on forums probably haven't gone yet.

[StraitR]

:confused:

http://i.imgur.com/mtXTQcc.jpg

Unpossible. It's already been confirmed, no FCS's.

[BehindBlueI's]

Artist rendition:

9886

I think that will answer all your questions.

[StraitR]

ROFL.

[HCM]

Could subcompacts still be imported for civilian sales without finger grooves (I'm thinking GCA68 point calculations)? I wonder if a commercial G19M would have to be entirely produced in the USA, and what the domestic manufacturing capacity is. Such issues could drive limitations on civilian sales.

I'm curious to hear more about the frame, particularly the accommodations for the ambidextrous slide release. Also, any indications towards the rear of the frame that could suggest manual safety preparation (for the MHS competition)?

The original G19's were imported without finger grooves. All the Gen 2 g19's and the 50 or so gen 1's.

[serialsolver]

Maybe then the prayers of the GT faithful will be answered after these long years by a Glock carbine. :D

A kitten just died.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Nephrology]

Artist rendition:

9886

I think that will answer all your questions.

Take my money.

[FNFAN]

Artist rendition:

9886

I think that will answer all your questions.

Digging the Steyr style backstrap!

[El Cid]

Artist rendition:

9886

I think that will answer all your questions.
Can't believe you didn't draw the other side with the ambi slide stop lever. Clearly this is a fake. Lol!

[JSGlock34]

The original G19's were imported without finger grooves. All the Gen 2 g19's and the 50 or so gen 1's.

Right, good point. Synapses not firing properly today...trying to figure out a reason why they might not be able to bring these features to the civilian market and coming up with...nothing.

[GJM]

I was just out shooting my HK45C, and got beaned on my head with a Speer 200 TMJ brass case. I think all my Glock shooting has infected the others. Let me tell you, .45 brass hits your head a lot harder than 9mm brass.

[Nephrology]

I was just out shooting my HK45C, and got beaned on my head with a Speer 200 TMJ brass case. I think all my Glock shooting has infected the others. Let me tell you, .45 brass hits your head a lot harder than 9mm brass.

Wow, and you didn't immediately throw it in the trash? BTF will get you kilt in the streets man. Tell you what, I'll take it off your hands for $150. Always happy to help a fellow PFer out.

[LittleLebowski]

Wow, and you didn't immediately throw it in the trash? BTF will get you kilt in the streets man. Tell you what, I'll take it off your hands for $150. Always happy to help a fellow PFer out.

I just dumpster dive for what he's thrown out at his house.

[GJM]

I just dumpster dive for what he's thrown out at his house.


Yeah, it all ends up in your subterranean man cave.

[Greg]

Artist rendition:

9886

I think that will answer all your questions.

Ermagerd... Best Glerk Everrrr

[Inkwell 41]

Artist rendition:

9886

I think that will answer all your questions.


But, but, it looks like a Glock!!!! Where are the magic front cocking serrations? Where is the uber dovetail front sight? And it's not going to be sold as a red label gun? The Internet will weep when that gets out.

Oh, the humanity!

I guess a Glock is a Glock is a Glock after all.

BehindBlueI's, thank you for sharing what you can. Appreciate it.

[LittleLebowski]

Yeah, it all ends up in your subterranean man cave.

I appreciate the .45ACP tips you leave in my cup, though :)

9888

[Nephrology]

Yeah, it all ends up in your subterranean man cave.

Is that where you throw all your 9mm HKs and your .40/.45 Glocks?

[GJM]

Is that where you throw all your 9mm HKs and your .40/.45 Glocks?


Cool guys don't admit to owning an HK in 9 or Glock in 40/45, unless they are an HK sponsored shooter with a VP9.

[StraitR]

Cool guys don't admit to owning an HK in 9 or Glock in 40/45, unless they are an HK sponsored shooter with a VP9.

ROFL. This thread delivers. All we need is DB, YVK, and sprinkle in a little LEM debate.

9890

[Luke]

I admit to owning a HK in 9millimeter.

[GJM]

I admit to owning a HK in 9millimeter.

I am not prejudiced, I have many friends with HK 9mm pistols.

[Luke]

Please... That's what they all say. "Oh I've got a friend who owns a HK in 9.." Or " my mail man owns a 9mm HK and he's a great guy!" Or "I grew up with a guy who loves HK's in 9, awesome dude.."


I've heard this story before! Mostly from people who hate the HK in the chosen caliber of Gods people (which is 9mm, have to actually say it because some of you brainwashed .40 folks will start to think I've switched to talking about .40..). I'm not buying it.

[GJM]

Shooting .40, .45 and .45 Super is what I do in lieu of Vogel's tortuous Captains of Crush. You gamers ought to try it. :)

[Luke]

And screw my timing up on my sweet unicorn? I thinks not!


Plus who's going to pay for those stupidly large bullets and process all my brass that's blowed out.

[Mjolnir]

I admit to owning a HK in 9millimeter.

Not only do I own several they make the best .45 ACP calibered pistol in polymer. Got that, too.

Glocks are best in 9mm in my humble opinion and the 19 the best of the 9mm though the 17 *may*|should be the more reliable model.

At any rate, it's a question of parts availability and cost of said parts combined with features that will separate the two: choose your "poison" - they both are f'n remarkable for what they are.


-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[john c]

Most people wouldn't even notice the difference. If you can see their gun, I'm sure the FBI badges will also give away who they work for.

I was thinking in the case of a burglary, or off duty discovery, where the gun is taken.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mark7]

Wow, the mothership is tough. I spoke to the NE LE rep to T&E 17M/19M and it appeared we were GTG. I send in the
paperwork and the National sales rep says unless we're buying a hundred or more no T&E on these pistols at this time.

[GJM]

Wow, the mothership is tough. I spoke to the NE LE rep to T&E 17M/19M and it appeared we were GTG. I send in the
paperwork and the National sales rep says unless we're buying a hundred or more no T&E on these pistols at this time.

Pistol-Forum group buy ought to be good for more than a hundred?

[Arbninftry]

I am in. I will take one of each.


Pistol-Forum group buy ought to be good for more than a hundred?

[GJM]

Maybe Rich_Jenkins can organize the hats to go with the 19/17M group buy. Wonder if Tom Jones can organize an accessory?

[orionz06]

Pistol-Forum group buy ought to be good for more than a hundred?

I'm sure folks would find a way to fuck that up too.

[GJM]

I am losing patience at no picture. At this rate, I will need to wait to the new season of Quantico in ABC, to see it.

[okie john]

Maybe Rich_Jenkins can organize the hats to go with the 19/17M group buy. Wonder if Tom Jones can organize an accessory?

So far we've got a watch, a pistol, and a hat. Now we just need a cane and we're all set.


Okie John

[LockedBreech]

Rather than always be on the defensive about my 4-5 .40 S&W pistols, I'm tempted to just ignore the reams of good science and data and stubbornly dig my heels in about it.

That has to be part of growing up, right? Having a few irrational beliefs I'll lose friendships over?

I mean, I'm already willing to burn a bridge if someone puts the toilet roll on upside down.

[YVK]

I am losing patience at no picture.

Well, it is a 9mm polymer gun with ambi controls and improved ergos. Go pull one of your 9mm HKs out of the closet and look at it. The new Glock will be close. Not as good but close.

[GardoneVT]

I am losing patience at no picture. At this rate, I will need to wait to the new season of Quantico in ABC, to see it.

"And it was said, whomsoever depicteth the Glock 17M in the tabernacle of Pistol Forum shall be as a pillar of salt."

[Sigfan26]

I am losing patience at no picture. At this rate, I will need to wait to the new season of Quantico in ABC, to see it.

I gotta admit: Im wondering if this whole project wasn't just a test to see if the FBI had any leaks on various forms of social media...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mitch]

Rather than always be on the defensive about my 4-5 .40 S&W pistols, I'm tempted to just ignore the reams of good science and data and stubbornly dig my heels in about it.

That has to be part of growing up, right? Having a few irrational beliefs I'll lose friendships over?

I mean, I'm already willing to burn a bridge if someone puts the toilet roll on upside down.
I'm with you man. No 40s here, but I'm sticking with Gen 4 (and hoping to pick some up on the cheap when people jump ship).

And those damn kids better get off my lawn before I turn the hose on them.

[HCountyGuy]

Artist rendition:

9886

I think that will answer all your questions.

I want a Glock like that one, screw the actual 17M!

Wonder if they have any sitting up in Smyrna? I'm just a short drive away...

[JHC]

I want a Glock like that one, screw the actual 17M!

Wonder if they have any sitting up in Smyrna? I'm just a short drive away...

Then you want THIS!!! http://www.wayofthegun.us/wotg-tomahawk-slide-modifications/

[orionz06]

So far we've got a watch, a pistol, and a hat. Now we just need a cane and we're all set.


Okie John

Shillelagh. I'll organize a group buy. Not because I want one but because I wanna see how long it takes someone to suggest we all carve our own sticks and tie a small piece of orange string on the handle instead.


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

[Gray222]

Shillelagh. I'll organize a group buy. Not because I want one but because I wanna see how long it takes someone to suggest we all carve our own sticks and tie a small piece of orange string on the handle instead.


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

..you mean you don't do that already?

[matt7184]

I gotta admit: Im wondering if this whole project wasn't just a test to see if the FBI had any leaks on various forms of social media...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL. Or by Glock to find people that signed a NDA, yet are releasing information about the gun in question...yet proclaim they can't say anymore because NDA. :confused:

[BehindBlueI's]

LOL. Or by Glock to find people that signed a NDA, yet are releasing information about the gun in question...yet proclaim they can't say anymore because NDA. :confused:

Folk that signed the NDA probably aren't chiming in at all. People who have since seen the released pistol but did not directly participate in the T&E and did not sign anything are (like me). I won't release the photo because I was asked not to when I got it. I hope to see one in person Thursday, maybe then I can get my own photo and can release it without violating the confidence of a friend.

[Greg]

Well, it is a 9mm polymer gun with ambi controls and improved ergos. Go pull one of your 9mm HKs out of the closet and look at it. The new Glock will be close. Not as good but close.

But at least the magazine release will be as God and John Moses Browning command it :cool:

[3-7-77]

This just rolled across my Facebook feed
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160816/f5b67b8e2199ef811cfd9e215f14e1dc.jpg

[BehindBlueI's]

There you go. Probably someone from inservice yesterday.

Looks a lot like a Glock...:D

[Slalom.45]

I like the slide melt. Don't care for the mag well. Would have liked forward cocking serrations. I'm sure it will work...

[LittleLebowski]

There's a slide melt?

[JCS]

Me likey. Very subtle yet big changes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Flea]

There you go. Probably someone from inservice yesterday.

Looks a lot like a Glock...:D

Last-night i got listen to one my Sgt brag about getting one of the earliest inservice slots so he could get the new gun sooner. He spent about 10 minutes explaining how this gun was better.Well you can't talk about guns an expect me to not get excited. Got all excited for him and asked if they finally fixed the grip angle. He just flicked me off and drove away... :confused:

Hahah some guys are to easy to mess with...

[StraitR]

The first person to say "Take my money" needs to logout and go directly to Glocktalk where blind adherence is not only accepted but encouraged. Your PF membership will be reviewed.

[BehindBlueI's]

Last-night i got listen to one my Sgt brag about getting one of the earliest inservice slots so he could get the new gun sooner. He spent about 10 minutes explaining how this gun was better.Well you can't talk about guns an expect me to not get excited. Got all excited for him and asked if they finally fixed the grip angle. He just flicked me off and drove away... :confused:

Hahah some guys are to easy to mess with...

I have no idea when I'll get one now. I took an early slot too, but since the guns weren't delivered in time...

[Mjolnir]

Well, it is a 9mm polymer gun with ambi controls and improved ergos. Go pull one of your 9mm HKs out of the closet and look at it. The new Glock will be close. Not as good but close.

Yep. But if the availability of parts and ease of service are still there - and they are - and the ergos more closely approximate the VP9 then why buy the VP9?

I ADORE my VP9s but... If the frame of the new GLOCK feels as nice as the current (I wish they had integrated a small beaver tail) I probably would have purchased one GLOCK, rented a VP9 and conducted a series of times, scored drills.

Upon doing this several times fastest time/highest score wins. Unless the differential is so minute in favor of the HK - in which I would go with the GLOCK.

Here in flooded BTR I'm wearing my VP9.



-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[Nephrology]

The first person to say "Take my money" needs to logout and go directly to Glocktalk where blind adherence is not only accepted but encouraged. Your PF membership will be reviewed.

Take...my....uh...take.... hrmm....

*logs out*

[finslayer83]

http://i.imgur.com/FYvAXLp.jpg

[StraitR]

Take...my....uh...take.... hrmm....

*logs out*


HAHAHAHAHA. It was almost like I was JUST trolling YOU. :p


Fin, look at the top of the page.