Week 177: If You Aren't Fast Enough, It Doesn't Matter How Accurate You Are

[Mr_White]

Week 177: If You Aren't Fast Enough, It Doesn't Matter How Accurate You Are

Results may be posted until September 12th, 2016.

Designed by: Gabe White
Range: 3 yards
Target: USPSA Metric or IDPA
Start Position: Holster and Ready
Rounds Fired: 2


If you aren't fast enough, it doesn't matter how accurate you are...

I've heard this idea expressed quite a bit less than the idea behind DotW 175 (if you aren't accurate enough, it doesn't matter how fast you are), but it's also true. A big part of the challenge of practical shooting is the recognition that there is a time limit. And while it may or may not be a challenging time limit, it probably cannot be discerned beforehand. We have to shoot accurately enough, at a relevant speed. If we aren't fast enough, it won't matter how accurate we are.

String 1: Start with loaded handgun at the ready, target at 3 yards. At the start signal, shoot 1 shot to the lower A/-0 zone (body, not head.) Record your time and hit. You must make the hit in less than 0.50 seconds.

String 2: Start with handgun loaded and holstered, hands at sides, target at 3 yards. At the start signal, draw and shoot 1 shot to the lower A/-0 zone (body, not head.) Record your time and hit. You must make the hit in less than 1.50 seconds.

You must make both hits under the time limits to Pass.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Target, gun, holster, concealment (if used)
Time and hit on String 1
Time and hit on String 2
Pass or Fail
Observations: anything you noticed

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

[Luke]

Can I get a definition of "ready position" please sir.

[Mr_White]

Can I get a definition of "ready position" please sir.

I intended for it to be pretty open-ended, because people do (credibly) use a variety of ready positions. You could use low ready, contact/threat ready, high ready, compressed ready, etc. - whatever you like. At its essence, a ready position has the gun held in a manner that allows essentially unobstructed vision of the target in order to enable the decisionmaking that necessarily comes before engaging, and with the trigger finger in register. Some ready positions are better than others in certain physical circumstances and contexts. For this drill, whatever ready position you use needs to have finger in register, and you can't be 'on the sights' while in the ready position.

[scw2]

Shot this with CZ 75 SP-01 from concealment with CCC Gestalt holster and polo shirt.


String 1: Ready position was sort of where hands come together during the draw. I turned in times at 0.79 sec, 0.67 sec, 0.63 sec (miss), 0.62 sec - all failed. Too slow - can maybe cut a few hundreths of seconds working on reaction time, but clearly moving arms too slowly. As I type this up I think I can work on this in dry fire a bit...

String 2: 1.20 sec, 1.18 sec, 2 x 1.11 sec (miss) - calling this a fail by shooting a few shots high pushing speed. Glad I made the 1.50 sec time though.

I think I will get the most benefit initially working on getting string 1 times down so that I can hopefully see carry over benefits into String 2. I think moving my arms faster is what I need to work on. Misses were high, which happened when I shot with rough sight picture and not enough discernment when breaking the shots, so visual processing speed can help too. Also leftward bias suggests more trigger work needed...

9877

[JohnK]

Target, gun, holster, concealment (if used): IDPA target, HK P30L LEM, JMCK AIWB, Untucked golf shjrt
Time and hit on String 1: 0.5 from a compressed ready.
Time and hit on String 2: 1.43 from appendix holster, concealed
Pass or Fail: I'm not thrilled with the first string as I want to get it under.
Observations: I need to hone my reading comprehension skills because I went back to seven yards on string 2. So I do need to re-shoot this drill. It also took me 15 runs on each to get where I wanted to be. I was dancing around .6 for the first 8 shots on string one. Then slowly chipping away with a .58,.57,.53, etc, until I hit .50. I couldn't seem to break under that yesterday. String 2 may have been a bit more forgiving of time if I was a smidge closer (hence reading comprehension!) But that turned in my fastest draw ever to a down zero hit so I was pretty happy.

I had been using a P30 LEM but wanted to try - and ultimately do prefer - the P30L for carry. I've been practicing with that, 437 rounds through and I feel like the trigger just needs a few hundred rounds more to feel like my standard model and my times should drop a bit more.

I've been doing these drills and just forgetting to report my results... time to be a bit more proactive to be accountable!

[Mr_White]

Target, gun, holster, concealment (if used): USPSA Metric target, Gen3 G34, concealed in a Keeper under a polo shirt
Time and hit on String 1: 0.29, hit
Time and hit on String 2: 0.82, hit
Pass or Fail: Pass


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ClUPXftnBU

[Wobblie]

Target, gun, holster, concealment (if used): USPSA Metric target, Gen3 G34, concealed in a Keeper under a polo shirt
Time and hit on String 1: 0.29, hit
Time and hit on String 2: 0.82, hit
Pass or Fail: Pass


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ClUPXftnBU

I quit.

[JHC]

Target, gun, holster, concealment (if used): USPSA Metric target, Gen3 G34, concealed in a Keeper under a polo shirt
Time and hit on String 1: 0.29, hit
Time and hit on String 2: 0.82, hit
Pass or Fail: Pass


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ClUPXftnBU

Subscribed! LOL Nice!

[P.E. Kelley]

Target, gun, holster, concealment (if used): USPSA Metric target, Gen3 G34, concealed in a Keeper under a polo shirt
Time and hit on String 1: 0.29, hit
Time and hit on String 2: 0.82, hit
Pass or Fail: Pass


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ClUPXftnBU

Damn Sporty!

[Mr_White]

Thank you Sirs!

[MVS]

USPSA Metric, Gen 3 G19 w/RMR, Fricke holster AIWB, t-shirt concealment.
String 1; .6 hit, .5 hit, .47 hit
String 2; 1.23 hit, 1.22 hit, 1.28 hit
Fail.
Things noticed. Took too much time looking for a sight picture on string 1.

[GAP]

IDPA circle, Glock 26 Gen 4, JM Custom IWB3, T-Shirt Concealed

String One: 0.28
String Two: 1.10
Pass

[CCT125US]

HK P2000 v2
Trijicon 3 dot
JRC AIWB CDA II
under a t-shirt
SB9B 124gr
Observations: accept a less refined sight picture

Depressed muzzle: .42
Concealed: 1.12
Pass
9924

[BehindBlueI's]

p226 .40 SCT

Bladetech IWB under button up shirt

I only did one run, used a target that had already been used for head shot practice.

.38 from low ready. 1.70 from concealment.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Docwagon1776/Ruger/20160819_133842_zps863hmhbb.jpg

[scw2]

Gear: CZ 75 SP-01 in CCC Gestalt and polo shirt.

Part 1: Shot this from a ready position simulating the portion of the draw where hands join.
Results: 0.63H, 0.78H, 0.62H, 0.55H, 0.52H, 0.58H, 0.65H, and 0.53H
Observations: Think this is beneficial to getting my hands to move faster, visually seeing enough, and learning when I can start getting on the trigger.

Part 2: Shot from AIWB concealment.
Results: 1.12M ,1.18H, 1.09M, 1.06H, 1.01M, 1.06H, 0.98H, 1.00M, 0.99H

9994

Observations:
1. I tried not to cheat on the grip, so that maybe slowed me down a bit. Ultimately I still move too slow though.

2. My misses tend to be high, which suggests my muzzle is slightly elevated, and I think I shoot when I see the FS on the target sometimes without it being fully in the rear notch.

3. So close to getting to 0.50 sec on the first part, and would like to keep improving the draw and consistently get under 1.0 sec, so will keep doing this next range trip. Easy enough to invest 20-30 rounds and see really good improvement on this drill.

[JHC]

Shot this a bunch of times with a G19. USPSA A zone

Checked difference between a hard trigger finger index vs inside the trigger guard.

Ready position extended
Hard index on slide or front of trigger guard: .40-.45 hits
Inside trigger guard .27 hits

Draw
OWB not concealed .98 hits

I didn't expect the hard index to cost .2

No sights. Just index point shooting at 3 yards.

[DEG]

Ran five reps of the drills this morning.

Target, gun, holster, concealment: USPSA target, HK P30 LEM 4.1, concealed AIWB

Time and hit on String 1:
1. 0.79 (F)
2. 0.57 (F)
3. 0.48 (P)
4. 0.50 (P)
5. 0.49 (P)

Time and hit on String 2
1. 1.33 (P)
2. 1.28 (P)
3. 1.24 (P)
4. 1.22 (P)
5. 1.39 (P)

Observations: I started way too slow on the first shots for String 1, then sped up on the third through fifth rep. Getting high .40-ish from the ready with my trigger finger on the slide was about as fast as I could move. I was pretty happy with the consistency from the concealed draw times and hits on String 2.

10004

[hiro]

IPSC, G17K G4, Ready Tactical OWB, no concealment.

Time and hit on String 1:
0.72, 0.56, 0.8, 0.66. 0.63
10023

Hits are good, time is not. Fail.
I alternated between a low ready and compressed ready, the slower times were from compressed (I think)

Time and hit on String 2:
1.57, 1.62, 1.52, 1.61, 1.46
10024
Last shot was the bugger that went into the C zone. Fail. These are tho, the best times I've shot from the holster.

I shot each string 5 times in a row, not sure if I should have shot the two strings together, tho I don't think it would have made a lot of difference.

Second run:
String 1
0.58, 0.59, 0.74, 0.78, 0.52
10025
Failed again.

String 2
1.55, 1.62, 1.60, 1.58, 1.65
10026
Fail :(

More dry fire, more range time...

[Range1]

Target, gun, holster, concealment (if used): USPSA Metric, Glock 17 Gen 3, CompTac OWB, vest for concealed draws.

I did five from low ready and with concealment then 5 from compressed ready with no concealment.

Time and hit on String 1(Low Ready): .49; .45; .40; .41; .56 All were in the A zone
Time and hit on String 2 (From concealment): 1.38; 1.40; 1.39; 1.36; 1.41 Missed left
Pass or Fail: Pass; Pass; Pass; Pass; Fail overtime and a miss

Time and hit on String 1 (Compressed Ready): .54 Miss high; .59 Miss right; .54; .54; .58
Time and hit on String 2 (From open carry): 1.26; 1.23; 1.29 Miss low; 1.39; 1.41
Pass or Fail: Fail x5

Observations, anything you noticed: I hesitate to admit it but for the first four runs that were all passes I did not see the front sight, just raised the pistol and as soon as it was at full extension pressed the trigger. On the fifth run the trigger felt a little funky on the press and I slowed up a little too much yielding a .56. The following from the holster I intentionally got on the front sight but felt rushed and slapped the trigger hard sending the shot left.

The last five runs from compressed ready and open carry were just not good. I concentrated on getting on the front sight each time but just could not get my trigger press smoothed out except for the high miss. Saw my front sight was high just as completed the press on that one, hit was centered but high out of the A. I think subconsciously I thought I had to speed up the press because I was taking more time to find the front sight resulting in more of a jab at the trigger instead of a controlled press. Support hand got a little sloppy too

Guess my take away from this is it doesn’t matter how good your sight alignment is if you have crappy trigger control especially at close ranges. Think I’ve heard that somewhere before. Also at three yards I may not need to get a sight picture but it is not a habit I want to foster.

[JHC]

Target, gun, holster, concealment (if used): USPSA Metric, Glock 17 Gen 3, CompTac OWB, vest for concealed draws.

I did five from low ready and with concealment then 5 from compressed ready with no concealment.

Time and hit on String 1(Low Ready): .49; .45; .40; .41; .56 All were in the A zone
Time and hit on String 2 (From concealment): 1.38; 1.40; 1.39; 1.36; 1.41 Missed left
Pass or Fail: Pass; Pass; Pass; Pass; Fail overtime and a miss

Time and hit on String 1 (Compressed Ready): .54 Miss high; .59 Miss right; .54; .54; .58
Time and hit on String 2 (From open carry): 1.26; 1.23; 1.29 Miss low; 1.39; 1.41
Pass or Fail: Fail x5

Observations, anything you noticed: I hesitate to admit it but for the first four runs that were all passes I did not see the front sight, just raised the pistol and as soon as it was at full extension pressed the trigger.

.

Good! I understand the advice "see what you need to see" to be that. It's 3 yards away. Shooting index works up there as you showed!

[ssb]

Target - 4x6" chest box on range target.
Gun - Gen 4 G17, OEM barrel, 10-8 Performance FO sights, JRC AIWB-CDA II under a t-shirt
.46s/hit (shot from low ready - gun at bottom of target)
1.43s/hit
Pass
Observations: Yesterday was my first serious live fire with my new JRC AIWB-CDA II. This was my first shot from the holster. I've done some dry fire but haven't been as diligent as I should be and that's reflected in my draw time. 1.4 is my "normal" cold time to an 8" circle @ 7yds, or at least it was when I was shooting more regularly. I've got some work to do. Both rounds were good elevation-wise, though the low ready shot was centered whereas the drawn shot was about 2" to its left.

[hiro]

Can I get a definition of "ready position" please sir.

Luke, did you shoot the drill?

:D

[Luke]

Luke, did you shoot the drill?

:D

Man I've been slacking so hard on live fire. My life has been so crazy I'm barley able to dry fire. It's so bad last week my boss gave me his open gun and a bag of ammo and said to shoot it and see what I thought. Free gun and ammo and it hasn't left the kitchen counter. I'm going to try to live fire Sunday.


Magic 8 ball says a .42 and a .86. Be back soon to see if it was right.

[hiro]

Man I've been slacking so hard on live fire. My life has been so crazy I'm barley able to dry fire. It's so bad last week my boss gave me his open gun and a bag of ammo and said to shoot it and see what I thought. Free gun and ammo and it hasn't left the kitchen counter. I'm going to try to live fire Sunday.


Magic 8 ball says a .42 and a .86. Be back soon to see if it was right.

Dude! I thought I was master of excuses!

OK, maybe I still am...

You reckon your 0.42 will be from Mr_White's low ready or you wanna scupper your scores and try from a compressed ready?

[hiro]

It's so bad last week my boss gave me his open gun and a bag of ammo and said to shoot it and see what I thought. Free gun and ammo and it hasn't left the kitchen counter.

I wish my boss had any gun!

[scw2]

Aug 26

Shot with CZ 75 SP01 from compressed ready for 1st string, and from concealment with polo on 2nd string. Intent of range day was speed, so I started with this drill.

String 1: Shot 10 shots, with most ranging from 0.52 - 0.60 sec. Many hits, but a few fliers high getting on trigger before alignment was firm enough. Sadly this felt slow and never broke 0.50 sec, so failed.

String 2: Much better. Had 4 misses out of 10. Most were in the 1.00-1.05 range, but hit 0.98 sec twice, and even hit 0.90 once.

What I noticed:

1. Good thing is most of the shots were vertically aligned, with only 1 left and 2 low due to poor alignment & trigger manipulation.

2. Will keep working this with bill drills to see if I can improve my speed. I think hitting 3 of 7 below 1.00 sec is an improvement for me, especially that 0.90 sec time.

3. pressout sucked, but draw speed managed to break 1.00 sec three times, with a 0.90 sec in there. I must be saving time elsewhere since my pressout was slower this week than last week.

4. Dry fire is paying off a bit, so will continue to work speed on the draw as well dry to see how much I can improve this in live fire.

10177

[scw2]

Sept 10: Want to keep working on my draw speed, so will continue to work this. Have only been dry firing for a couple weeks, so wanted to see what I could turn in at the range with my usual set up of polo + CZ 75 SP01 and a CCC Gestalt holster.

Ran this at 5 yards to start by accident, somehow had really fast times but lots of misses either just off paper or on the white. Hits at 1.07 s and 0.94 s, then misses at 0.66 s and 0.73 s.

Moved back to 3 yards, and started around 1.02 - 1.09 range after the first 5 rounds, all hits.
Next 10 rounds I was able to consistently get under 1.0 sec, with multiple hits at 0.94 sec.

What I observed - need to keep working at this, to improve my visual speed to see enough of the sights, plus get a good enough natrual index and solid grip fast enough to rip a fast shot. Grip will be huge since a lot of my fast shots were right near extension, but poor trigger and not enough grip meant shots went low. I think DOTW reporting closes soon, but will keep this drill in the rotation for a few more weeks/months to see what I can do with improving speed and accuracy.

10448

[hiro]

Shot the drill again on September 7th.
10468

From low ready: 0.55, 0.56, 0.64, 0.72, 0.52, 0.60, 0.50, 0.47
From the holster: 1.51, 1.63, 1.59, 1.54, 1.52, 1.62, 1.70, 1.51, 1.70, 1.64

Same gear as before: G17K, Ready Tactical OWB, no concealment and as close as I can! (3 yards)

Observations: my times are improving slowly but I threw more shots out this week than last time round. I'm thinking there's a better consistency on my times but I've not put the numbers into Excel to show that. Subjective? Yes.