Question about 1911 and full length guide rod

[ranger]

Background: I am shooting regularly a Springfield Armory Range Officer 1911 9mm. I bought it used from a USPSA competitor in Atlanta Area. It was intended to be a single stack competition pistol but he was so invested in Open he never shot it much - his loss and my gain. Pistol is mostly stock but has VZ grips, grip tape front strap, and a full length one piece guide rod - it also came with a very large competition mag well that was immediately removed and replaced with a much smaller magwell. I have put at least 2000 rounds of 9mm through it with no issues - majority my reloads of Bayou 124 Coated RN with 4.8 WSF with whatever small primer is cheapest (Tula or S&B) plus range pickup brass.

Issue is the full length guide rod - the type that takes a "tool" to remove - the L shaped paper clip. It is a pain to remove and reinstall. Seems to work well other than PITA to clean pistol. Do I lose anything to remove the full length guide rod and go to a traditional system? I know I lose some weight from the rod but steel frame 5 inch 1911 is plenty heavy for 9mm.

[JonInWA]

You'll lose absolutely nothing operationally by removing it and reverting to the GI set-up. I've run both (including both in the same 1911), and I believe that you'll find that the informed consensus is that while a full-length guide rod may make the cycling reciprocation feel smoother, it adds nothing of worth except added complexity in take-down.

There was one "tactical" school of thought at one point that having one would preclude someone at contact distance from pushing against the slide and taking the gun out of battery, rendering it unfireable, my thought is that if you've got the gun out and someone's that close and you haven't pulled the trigger, your problems are of a greater magnitude than a guide rod's gonna resolve.

Best, Jon

[Trooper224]

You'll loose nothing by getting rid of that worthless contrivance. A full length guide rod in a 1911 is one of those gimmicks that developed first, then reasons for it's existence were conjured.

[That Guy]

There was one "tactical" school of thought at one point that having one would preclude someone at contact distance from pushing against the slide and taking the gun out of battery, rendering it unfireable

You made me go and check. A big, definite "nope" on my SW1911PD - pressure against the muzzle end pushes the gun out of battery easily. With my girlfriends second-hand Springfield (well, the gun was originally a Springfield, at some point in its life) it was more of a "maybe" - depends a lot on how much pressure and from what angle.

Aside from the other issues with that school of thought, I'd say it has the major problem of not working.

[MolonLabe416]

It serves no purpose. I always swap for a standard GI setup.

[Robinson]

I agree with the others -- any pistol I've owned that was equipped with a full-length guide rod I quickly swapped out for a GI setup. Some people like them though.

[Hambo]

I've never bought one, but I've gotten used 1911s with them. They didn't annoy me or cause any adverse effect so I left them in.

[BillSWPA]

I cannot confirm this from firsthand experience but I have read about recoil springs lasting longer with a full length guide rod.

My 1911 came with one, but does not require any tool other than a bushing wrench to disassemble the gun. With several thousand rounds fired through the gun, I see no reason to change it.

[HopetonBrown]

I remove them because I don't like using a paperclip.

But here is the American Pistolsmith's Guild 2012 Pistolsmith of the year on why he likes them.

http://www.dlsports.com/1911_full_length_guide_rods.html

[Trooper224]

I remove them because I don't like using a paperclip.

But here is the American Pistolsmith's Guild 2012 Pistolsmith of the year on why he likes them.

http://www.dlsports.com/1911_full_length_guide_rods.html

A Pistolsmith endorsing a product that he carries, shocking.

[Greg]

It gets portrayed as an upgrade by sales clerks and catalogs. Now every 1911 above a base model seems to have them.

Agree that they are not needed. The 1911 I shot yesterday had the GI system and somehow the gun failed to assplode.

[HopetonBrown]

A Pistolsmith endorsing a product that he carries, shocking.

He endorses it because he sells it, or he sells it because he endorses it? I'm thinking the latter. He sells GI rods, too.

[YVK]

When I started with 1911, I payed my hard earned money to convert all the long guide rodded guns to GI plugs because reasons. Twelve years later, having owned a few with both, I can't remember what those reasons were. Must be getting senile. I also live in JMB's hometown and I am waiting for some curse to happen. Quiet so far.

[Redhat]

I'm don't argue for or against...but I do find it interesting that most, if not all, modern pistol designs use a FLGR

[mike.burgess.353]

I'm don't argue for or against...but I do find it interesting that most, if not all, modern pistol designs use a FLGR
Most modern pistols would be difficult to assemble without one, 1911s are easier without

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Redhat]

Most modern pistols would be difficult to assemble without one, 1911s are easier without

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

So you think that's it...they put them in modern pistols for assembly?

[Jared]

I don't like Springfield's system that requires an Allen Wrench to take down. The one Colt used on the XSE line was okay with me, you could still take those down without tools. Basically, I leave the Colt XSE type alone and replace the Springfield system. GI type guide rods and plugs are really easy to get so if you decide to replace the one you have it shouldn't be a problem.

[StraitR]

So you think that's it...they put them in modern pistols for assembly?

Modern pistols don't typically use a barrel link or rotating barrel bushing.

[rdtompki]

Or instead of the GI just get a Wilson single-piece guide rod, no paper clip required.

[Willard]

Agree with all those who say replace with GI. I only ever had one FLGR on a Springfield GSP 2000 and it was easy enough to unscrew. However, it offered no perceived advantage while making disassembly and reassembly a bit more tedious.

[Luke]

Buddy uses a Dawson tooless guide rod in his 2011, it's awesome, not sure if they fit in 1911's but worth a look.

[Redhat]

Modern pistols don't typically use a barrel link or rotating barrel bushing.

Maybe that's it then..or maybe the afore mentioned g'smith has it right.

[vcdgrips]

My 2009 response to a similar question on a 1911 centric forum:

In the case of a particularly difficult and "stuck" case/failure to extract, the FLGR prevents you from cleaning the weapon by placing the area below the barrel against an edge and putting you weight behind it to open the action. The application of this technique presumes that the "flying thumb wedge to the grip safety strike" was ineffective.

If I was going to run a FLGR, it would be a one piece al la Kimber Series I 5 inch guns of old.

YMMV greatly,

david of vcdgrips.com

[Tamara]

FLGRs assist with extracting and feeding: Extracting money from your wallet and feeding it into the bank account of whoever sold you the FLGR.

[psalms144.1]

FLGRs assist with extracting and feeding: Extracting money from your wallet and feeding it into the bank account of whoever sold you the FLGR.Niiiiiiiiiice... That's some GOOD hate right there!

[JonInWA]

FLGRs assist with extracting and feeding: Extracting money from your wallet and feeding it into the bank account of whoever sold you the FLGR.

And the reputable outfits will admit it-when I spoke with Clark a year or so ago, when I was in an experimental phase with one of my 1911s, when I discussed their 2-piece FLGR, the said while they'd be happy to sell it to me, it really wasn't necessary. I appreciated their straight-forwardness.

Best, Jon

[ranger]

My 2009 response to a similar question on a 1911 centric forum:

In the case of a particularly difficult and "stuck" case/failure to extract, the FLGR prevents you from cleaning the weapon by placing the area below the barrel against an edge and putting you weight behind it to open the action. The application of this technique presumes that the "flying thumb wedge to the grip safety strike" was ineffective.

If I was going to run a FLGR, it would be a one piece al la Kimber Series I 5 inch guns of old.

YMMV greatly,

david of vcdgrips.com

I will admit - I did not chamber check my reloads the other day and had an oversized case partially chamber and "stick". Not the guns fault - I should have checked the reloads before feeding it. The FLGR did make it more of a hassle to clear the stuck round. This is a good point against the FLGR.

[45dotACP]

There's not a lot of pros...there's a few more cons. If I had a choice, it'd be a GI guide rod setup, but I was gifted a one piece FLGR one once for christmas and put it in my Palmetto State 1911 build...it works. The kart barrel does get some bullets jammed in the chamber (because it's a tight chamber) so it does cause some annoyance, but by no means is it a problem that cannot be overcome.

The two piece ones suck though. Hate those.

[Trooper224]

I will admit - I did not chamber check my reloads the other day and had an oversized case partially chamber and "stick". Not the guns fault - I should have checked the reloads before feeding it. The FLGR did make it more of a hassle to clear the stuck round. This is a good point against the FLGR.

That's my main grievance with the concept.

[wsr]

I rigged this demonstration up a couple years ago when i was having a discussion with a guy who swore that the GI system let the spring kink and a flgr prevented this therefor making the spring last longer
i tried to explain that there are two ways to control a coil spring...put it around a rod or put it in a hole...the GI system uses a combo or the two

in battery length is 3.9 inches
this is whats left uncontrolled buy the plug and guide rod alone
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/rugglesm/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps87b50ab6.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/rugglesm/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps87b50ab6.jpg.html)

when you take into account the barrel on top and the dustcover which extends .3 inches past the guide rod this is whats left uncontrolled
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/rugglesm/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps5bf52015.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/rugglesm/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps5bf52015.jpg.html)

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/rugglesm/Mobile%20Uploads/th_trimB453FC06-7DC2-4B2F-A9B0-93CC082348EF_zpsdeb87e79.mp4 (http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/rugglesm/Mobile%20Uploads/trimB453FC06-7DC2-4B2F-A9B0-93CC082348EF_zpsdeb87e79.mp4)

[1986s4]

Some would say they add weight up front under the barrel which aids in recoil control. But on a 9mm? I've always removed mine when a 1911 came with one and replaced with a GI set up. No issues ever.

[Tamara]

If you've got a junky gun with a rattly, loose fit between slide and frame, taking one of those FLGRs you've taken out of a gun and thrown in a drawer and putting it in the rattly gun will make it feel a lot smoother-cycling to the salesman when you go to trade it in against a '66 Colt project gun.

Or so I'm told.