First look at the Vortex Spitfire 1x

[BehindBlueI's]

Since sending my Eotech in for the refund, I was minus an optic. My patrol rifle sports a DRMO Aimpoint, and it's an Aimpoint so it works as advertised. I did not want to put that much money into a home defense rifle where the optic is going to live a relatively cushy life of...sitting. No rain, no 8 hour range days, no bouncing around in a trunk, just...sitting. Vortex seemed like a reasonable price and reasonable quality for what I wanted. Plus, I was able to get one new for about $165 so...yeah.

I went with the Spitfire because of the etched reticle. The ability to pick it up and use it without having to turn it on (or to worry about battery life of it sitting for long periods of time in the "on" position) was a big selling point for me. I also like the big circle for up close work and the dot for more precision. It's like the Eotech, only sharper and always on. Finally, the ability to have green was interesting to me. Due to some limited color blindness, red isn't always the best option for me. With the Aimpoint I can lose the dot in a brown background unless I crank it up a bit more than I would otherwise need to. A light green always stands out for me.

So, this one: http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-spitfire-1x-prism-scope-with-drt-moa-reticle

The rifle is a PSA lower and one of their premium uppers with the chrome lined barrel MPI barrel.

I zero'd per the irons and then hit the range. 3 shot groups to check zero, 15y and then 35y standing:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Docwagon1776/Shared/20160804_174812_zpshpdwxdxq.jpg

I had to bring it up just a touch and left a few just a touches. Ended up here at 50y kneeling (I usually zero from prone, but it had just rained and I'm not dedicated enough to lay in a puddle):

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Docwagon1776/Shared/20160804_175928_zpsrcx991hs.jpg

Once I was satisfied with the zero, I figured out hold over for up close work, did some shooting on the move, etc.

Pros:
It was easy to zero, the caps have a little "screwdriver" bump on them and can be used to adjust the zero. The green and the red were quite visible, and even the black worked well with the sight "off". I shot the 16" PSA about as well as I do the 20" Colt with the Aimpoint at the 50y line. I couldn't get on the 100y range today, but suspect it'll be the same. I'm holding the equipment back, not vice versa.
Easy to use even without turning it on.

Cons:
Difficult for me to use with both eyes open. With the Aimpoint I can have both eyes open with no problems. The Vortex makes it a bit blurry and disorienting if I try to. I'm not sure if it's not quite a true 1x or what the issue is. I have to close one eye and use it more like a traditional scope.

For what I want it for, I'm happy with it. I'm also happy to stick with the Aimpoint for the patrol rifle, though.

[BehindBlueI's]

I confirmed it's not just my eyes, it's blurry to shoot with two eyes open. I had two other guys shoot it today, one who wears glasses and one youngster with good eyesight. Both said the same thing, a little magnification and blurry to look through it with both eyes open.

[Duelist]

Good to know. Been thinking about Vortex for a RDS to add to my iron-sighted KISS carbine - unless I rebuild the upper, it'd get mounted on a gooseneck I've had laying around here for ten years or so. Would the eye relief work with that?

[BehindBlueI's]

Good to know. Been thinking about Vortex for a RDS to add to my iron-sighted KISS carbine - unless I rebuild the upper, it'd get mounted on a gooseneck I've had laying around here for ten years or so. Would the eye relief work with that?

Eye relief, probably. You may want a bit bigger tube, though. Even with the larger Aimpoint, my lower 1/3 co witness is more like lower 1/5th co witness with a gooseneck. I'm not sure how the Spitfire would do.

[Duelist]

Thanks!

[redbone]

Since sending my Eotech in for the refund, I was minus an optic. My patrol rifle sports a DRMO Aimpoint, and it's an Aimpoint so it works as advertised. I did not want to put that much money into a home defense rifle where the optic is going to live a relatively cushy life of...sitting.

Serious question - why did you turn your Eotech in? None of it's issues (parallax/thermal drift/cold weather distortion/reticle fade) would bother me in a home defense gun.

Even with those issues, it's certainly more proven than the Vortex. And the issue you are complaining about (blurry, can't use with two eyes open) with the Vortex wouldn't be (or weren't) an issue with the Eotech.

[BehindBlueI's]

Serious question - why did you turn your Eotech in? None of it's issues (parallax/thermal drift/cold weather distortion/reticle fade) would bother me in a home defense gun.

Even with those issues, it's certainly more proven than the Vortex. And the issue you are complaining about (blurry, can't use with two eyes open) with the Vortex wouldn't be (or weren't) an issue with the Eotech.

I bought the Eotech for my patrol rifle. At the time I used a shotgun for home defense. Threat profile has changed, so my equipment changed.

[redbone]

I bought the Eotech for my patrol rifle. At the time I used a shotgun for home defense. Threat profile has changed, so my equipment changed.

That didn't answer my question. I wanted to know why your turned your Eotech in (as in took L3 up on the recall).

[JM Campbell]

That didn't answer my question. I wanted to know why your turned your Eotech in (as in took L3 up on the recall).
Do you not take a car in for a recall?
Eotech has had issue well documented during their service life. The man did not feel comfortable to put his life on the line on a duty rifle. He has a choice.

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[redbone]

Do you not take a car in for a recall?
Eotech has had issue well documented during their service life. The man did not feel comfortable to put his life on the line on a duty rifle. He has a choice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


Did you not see what the recall was for? None of the issues the Eotech has would be a factor on his home defense gun.

I didn't question whether he had a choice. I'm questioning whether he made the right choice.

But since you are speaking for him, tell me why he turned the Eotech in for an inferior option.

(Sometimes analogies don't help your case. I might take a car in for a recall if the manufacturer can fix the problem. I wouldn't necessarily sell my car back to the maker if the issue didn't effect me and then go buy a crappier car with a blurry windshield and questionable reliability.)

[BehindBlueI's]

That didn't answer my question. I wanted to know why your turned your Eotech in (as in took L3 up on the recall).

I didn't realize I had to break it down like Barney, but OK.

I used the Eotech for a patrol rifle.
A patrol rifle is subjected to extreme temperatures.
I returned the Eotech and got an Aimpoint for my patrol rifle.
After having already returned the Eotech, I decided to put together a home rifle.

[redbone]

I didn't realize I had to break it down like Barney, but OK.

I used the Eotech for a patrol rifle.
A patrol rifle is subjected to extreme temperatures.
I returned the Eotech and got an Aimpoint for my patrol rifle.
After having already returned the Eotech, I decided to put together a home rifle.

Got it.


Since sending my Eotech in for the refund, I was minus an optic. My patrol rifle sports a DRMO Aimpoint, and it's an Aimpoint so it works as advertised.

Don't want belabor the point, but the whole part about you being "minus an optic" "since sending in [your] Eotech" makes it sound like, well, you sent in your Eotech and were minus an optic (not that the Aimpoint was the Eotech's replacement.)

Glad you like the Vortex.

[HCM]

Did you not see what the recall was for? None of the issues the Eotech has would be a factor on his home defense gun.

I didn't question whether he had a choice. I'm questioning whether he made the right choice.

But since you are speaking for him, tell me why he turned the Eotech in for an inferior option.

(Sometimes analogies don't help your case. I might take a car in for a recall if the manufacturer can fix the problem. I wouldn't necessarily sell my car back to the maker if the issue didn't effect me and then go buy a crappier car with a blurry windshield and questionable reliability.)

I've been responsible for several dozen Eo-Techs at work in two different capacities. The "thermal shift" cited in the recall is far from the only issue with Eo-Techs.

The Pro:

1)The Reticle, shoot-ability. Fast up close, with a single 1 MOA dot for precision and witness marks on the 65 MOA ring for off set and lateral movers.

2) The Reticle was easier for some with astigmatism to see vs a LED dot.

The Con:

1) Reliability. Particularly on the older, dual battery models. Every time you changes the batteries, the springs, which were also battery connections, and the rubber cups which held them aligned would come out and were a PITA to put beck in. To the point some people crazy glued them in place.

2) Battery life was limited. Due to limited battery life, this is not the optic for you if you need something "grab and go". You cannot just leave it on. I don't have time to be messing with turning a sight on and setting brightness on a patrol or home defense rifle. When I need it, I need it now. If you are a SOCOM Operator going out a doing hits every night or a SWAT cop doing pre-planned warrant service you can just change your batteries before each hit.

3) Drained / dead batteries even when the sight is turned off. Rifles stored in hot vehicles would often have dead batteries within a month, even with the battery off. Even with Lithium batteries.

4) Some sights had wandering zero, even without extreme thermal conditions.

5) Sight adjustments not tracking properly. Sometimes to adjust up 3 clicks you had to go up 5 or 6 and back down 2 or 3. Sometimes the sights would track backwards and the POI would be opposite the direction of the adjustments.

The Eo-tech garnered a lot of LE sales simply because of price and the fact it did not require a separate mount like Aimpoints did before the PRO, M4 and ACO.

Many people will cite use / unit purchases of Eo-techs in the GWOT. Fact is pre-9/11 the Army was in the process of SLOWLY transitioning to Aimpoint RDS due to budget constraints. After 9/11, when the GWOT kicked off, and the DOD tried to make it rain $$$ Aimpoint in Sweden had limited production capacity and other commitments so you saw other "substitute standard" optics like Eo-techs purchased. SOCOM did purchase a version but see #2 above.

[BehindBlueI's]

Got it.



Don't want belabor the point, but the whole part about you being "minus an optic" "since sending in [your] Eotech" makes it sound like, well, you sent in your Eotech and were minus an optic (not that the Aimpoint was the Eotech's replacement.)

Glad you like the Vortex.

No worries. FWIW, if I still had the Eotech I'd still send it in and use the Vortex on this rifle. The Eotech was ok, but I never really dug the grainy look of the reticle. Mine drifted 3" right during a winter, I thought I must have screwed something up until the recall came out. For a home rifle, I also like the option of the black reticle if you don't have time to turn it on, the battery is dead, etc. The Eotech's controls with the arrows were slower to put into action than either my Aimpoint or Vortex.

For heavy use, I'd stick with Aimpoint in a heartbeat. For the relatively cush life this rifle will live, the Vortex is deep within good enough territory, and the ability to use black or green is just a bonus. I'd love it if you could shoot both eyes open, but seldom do you get everything you want in one package.

[BehindBlueI's]

I e-mailed Vortex and they gave me a call. They left me a voicemail saying there was an adjustment to be walked through to eliminate this issue with not being able to shoot both eyes open. I was in court and wasn't able to call them back today but will do so tomorrow. I'll update after I talk with them.

[Sadmin]

Interested for the adjustment, thanks for sharing. I have found this optic to be the best 1x optic for my eyes I've ever had, and ive had them all. I've never seen a dot so clearly. Wish they would not illuminate the outer ring.

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[TAZ]

Please keep us updated on the adjustment. I'm looking at this as a topper as the RMR currently there will hopefully end up on a G19. Also as FYI does an Aimpoint Micro mount fit the footprint or is it unique?

[BehindBlueI's]

I broke out the instructions and figured it out on my own. I actually did read them the first time, despite the negative points on my man card for doing so. I misunderstood what they said about adjusting it, though. It said to turn the ring until the reticle was in focus. I thought they meant the actual reticle, the etching in the glass. It was crisp as soon as I looked through it, so I declared it good and went on with zeroing. What it ACTUALLY means is to get the view through the scope clear. The ring adjusts the magnification a bit, both positive and negative. I don't know why that's required or if it varies by eye relief or what. I also have no idea if this is due to the prismatic scope design. I intend to still call tomorrow and ask.

However, using a can of shaving cream on a table in the basement, I got it figured out. I can know have both eyes open and not see double images, blurring, etc. With some further adjustments the can is the same size to either eye and with or without the scope. So, my primary whine/snivel/complaint about the scope is probably going to be chalked up to operator error. I suspect it's entirely possible to shoot with both eyes open, but will confirm on a range at real distances.

[BehindBlueI's]

I spoke with "Mike" at Vortex today and he said the magnification adjustment is due to it being a prism scope, the holographic projection scopes do not require adjustment to be a true 1x. He said to not look through it for very long at a time as your eye try to adjust. Make a small adjustment, then look through it with both eyes open, then look away. Repeat as necessary until there is no distortion. I used a door knob, because it was small enough I could see double vision easy if it wasn't quite right. It was a bit more precise than the can of shaving cream. I've gotten it now where there is no distortion. I'll try it live fire probably next week.

[psalms144.1]

Did you not see what the recall was for? None of the issues the Eotech has would be a factor on his home defense gun.Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if you're brand loyal to EOTech, good on you. But, I can tell you, as someone who is a LOT more familiar with the details of the EOTech issues than most, Thermal Drift (TD) is a reality that, like it or not, you're dealing with. You probably don't even know it, if your optic isn't getting a lot of use. We observed measurable zero drift in EOTechs in as little as 6 degrees temperature change, and, once the zero drifts, it usually won't return to the original zero when the temperature returns to what it was originally zero'd at. The drift is not predictable in magnitude nor direction, so you can't "Kentucky windage" it by guessing how much your zero is off based on the temperature difference from the range to your bedroom. TD is NOT limited to exposure to extreme temperatures, it can (and usually DOES) occur with ANY temperature shift.

On the issue of moisture incursion, it occurred in the OVERWHELMING majority of sights we reviewed (like 90+%), it's progressive, and non-reversible. Once the moisture gets into the optic (by a variety of pathways), you'll get grating delamination. That means that you're likely to see fading or complete disappearance of the hologram if your eyes' position relative to the center of the viewing window is "off" - as in trying to shoot from an awkward position from behind cover. Most people don't even know what's happening, they think they just need to crank up the brightness on the display, which works for a while, until it needs to be cranked up again, and again. All the while, the higher output of the image is draining your batteries faster and faster and you crank up brightness to counteract the reticle dimming...

You pay your money and you take your chances. But I would hate to see anyone think that just because their EOTech isn't being used by SEALs it's not subject to the same kinds of failures that caused the recall. Seriously, the company recalled ALL the sights, for a full refund. That's a clue.

[BehindBlueI's]

After getting it dialed in so it was clear with both eyes open, I had to make some slight adjustments to zero (#3 is a 5 shot group after I believed I had it dialed in correctly) and here are the results:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Docwagon1776/Ruger/20160812_120444_zpszpqttj6l.jpg

Shooting both eyes open from the 50y line, prone unsupported. The #3 shot group has 3 in the 1" box, one outside about 1/2" left, and one called flier to the right.

[H&KFanNC]

BB,

Are you still satisfied/extremely satisfied with your Spitfire? I am looking for an optic for an upcoming PCC purchase. Leaning heavily towards the Spitfire...

By the way, where did you find yours?

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[BehindBlueI's]

BB,

Are you still satisfied/extremely satisfied with your Spitfire? I am looking for an optic for an upcoming PCC purchase. Leaning heavily towards the Spitfire...

By the way, where did you find yours?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's been fine for what I'm using it for, which is still the cush life of sitting in a wall safe in a climate controlled room. It's seen two range trips, 90 rounds each, to verify function and zero and that's been it. That's not much of a test, but it's doing what I want it to do.

I don't remember where I bought it. Optics planet, maybe?

[H&KFanNC]

Mine will live a little harsher life but still reside in a cushy safe. If it passes 1K rds, maybe a HD gun.

Thanks for the quick response!!


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[Rich@CCC]

I didn't do any digging(just followed BB's first link to the Vortex), is the SpitFire still a $400.00 optic? If so, the AimPoint Pro seems to be a much better value at $432.00 https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-PRO-Patrol-Rifle-Optic/dp/B007GDR0I4

$0.02

[H&KFanNC]

The Spitfire is $250 on Amazon.


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[BehindBlueI's]

I went through my records. I bought it from MidwayUSA for $183.80 during my "birthday discount" window.

[Pacioli]

I bought one from Midway USA around Thanksgiving for $200. Cabela's had them for $179 last week.

[H&KFanNC]

Edit to add: Let me specify that I am referring to the Spitfire AR sight.

I might have to wait until the next holiday!


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