When drawing isn't an option (yet)...

[CK1]

Maybe the wrong place to put this on the forum, but lately in the interests of overall improved physical fitness, and along with forcing my lazy-ass to work out more regularly, I've been on kind of a Subject Control/MMA kick... especially as it pertains to those of us who are carrying concealed.

For me this has led to re-evaluating my normal carry gear and (maybe more importantly) where I wear it, as well as to the realization that for better or worse, even though I live in a state that's very carry-friendly as far as firearms go, and have gotten more proficient than most with a handgun, the lion's share of the time my best available option is maybe a knife, steel Parker pen, or next a flashlight... but truthfully and in all seriousness, the only thing I' or anyone else has really got with us all of the time is our brains and brawn.

Anyways, since this forum seems to be more dedicated to advanced training and techniques more so than most others, figured I'd just post this as a quick reminder to think about hitting the gym on the way back (or way to) the range now and again, or seeking some other training besides just firearms stuff... since getting a chance to employ one's pistol skills could first depend on successfully denying an aggressor getting a chance to employ theirs.

Here's a couple things I found with a quick search worth checking out if you haven't thought about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjCCDXN5Pew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prbRcHhXQUg

[irishshooter]

i think most would agree that supplemental non firearm training is a must for those interested in self defense.. With that being said i believe one needs to be very careful in chosing the discipline in which they practice "self defense". A good martial arts or even grappling foundation is helpful, but i am sure in a lot of cases difficult to actually apply in a shit-show-throwdown-fight-for-your-life scenario. Geoff Thompson, the author of The Fence, has a lot of experience in street/bar fights and has a lot of insight into just what you talk about, "subject control" and what has worked and has not. He warns about the dangers of ground work/grappling and submission fighting in street fights, but concedes that in a "ring" or match fight he would likely be quickly defeated against an adversary with these skills.....not on the street however. Southnarcs training is probably some of the best "intergrated" training for incorporating armed and unarmed self defense techniques helping you to fight to your pistol or to procure anothers'. i guess the more realistic and less "form oriented" the better. all in all your post reminds me to remember rule # 1 from Zombieland........Cardio!!!! and to get my fat ass to a gym of sorts and get more of this type of training thanks!

[David Armstrong]

The more you use your brain the less you should need the brawn. As I've gotten older and more disabled I've found myself learning more alternatives and incorporating them into my lifestyle. I carry a light with me a lot, so I have a light that can double as a Kubotan, and have trained with it. I now use a cane most of the time, so I ordered a fighting cane and learned techniques that revolve around it. "What do you have/use regularly that you can incorporate into your personal safety routine" becomes the question. And certainly hands, feet, etc. fit into that equation.

[Dropkick]

Avoidance, Awareness, Escape, and Dissuasion are all options before it gets to the violent encounter stage.

Kudos to Geoff Thompson.

[irishshooter]

Avoidance, Awareness, Escape, and Dissuasion are all options before it gets to the violent encounter stage.

Kudos to Geoff Thompson.

+1 & the same to Davids post. i have been attempting to fine tune my situational awareness and other tactics as well as opposed to 100% relying on the gun. The thing i like most about this form as opposed to other forums are the realistic answers and training advice. i've been in similar discussions on less serious forms and the answer seems always to be "blahh....blahh......thats why i have a gun". The gun is not always the answer as highlighted in Dropkicks quote, but it is an option and a one i like to have at my disposal as well.

[TCinVA]

Watch some videos from SouthNarc's classes sometime. Notice how it's really darn hard to find any disarms that look anything like what you see in a typical martial arts demo found on youtube.

That, to borrow a phrase, is a clue.

[irishshooter]

Watch some videos from SouthNarc's classes sometime. Notice how it's really darn hard to find any disarms that look anything like what you see in a typical martial arts demo found on youtube.

exactly...however i suppose as a last resort it wont ever hurt to assume the "crane kick" pose. worked for him :
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQigrEVuUUwueXq7gJWtARIE9rSxCe9s AE0GZx7MhdG0J9BVfSbjMRdRvNE

[phil_in_cs]

Watch some videos from SouthNarc's classes sometime. Notice how it's really darn hard to find any disarms that look anything like what you see in a typical martial arts demo found on youtube.

That, to borrow a phrase, is a clue.

Better yet, take SouthNarc's ECQC. That will allow you to explore the questions for yourself.

[jetfire]

Whenever I see disarm videos like the first one, I can't but help think "wow, it was really nice of that guy to stand still while casually waving his gun in the general direction of that guy. It was even nicer of him to not offer any resistance whatsoever when the guy took his gun away."

I feel like these guys never got in a tug of war over possession of a nerf gun as a child - those memories (and the accompanying bloody lips, sprained wrists, and other injuries) were enough to make me believe that a real gun takeaway wouldn't look like a cool kung fu trick.

[will_1400]

Big +1 to the disarm videos. I have a background in karate (no crane pose, though) and I swear none of the things that I know to work are shown in most youtube videos. One of my current "favorites" are a defense against an ice-pick stab where the demonstrator threw a high roundhouse kick to his attacker's head. Apparently he's never heard of a little thing called the femoral artery. Another one is the old "stick your finger behind the trigger of the gun" approach and the "force the slide back on a semi-auto with one hand" technique.

[phil_in_cs]

Whenever I see disarm videos like the first one, I can't but help think "wow, it was really nice of that guy to stand still while casually waving his gun in the general direction of that guy. It was even nicer of him to not offer any resistance whatsoever when the guy took his gun away."

I feel like these guys never got in a tug of war over possession of a nerf gun as a child - those memories (and the accompanying bloody lips, sprained wrists, and other injuries) were enough to make me believe that a real gun takeaway wouldn't look like a cool kung fu trick.

Exactly. Anything is easy if the other person is cooperating in the drill. Standing stone still with gun extended in a "hey, grab this" position.

If the other person is resisting - trying to retain his gun and shoot you - it looks a lot different.

[Dropkick]

The timing of this is hilarious because we worked on gun stickups today in a self defense class I go to.

There weren't any fancy or flashy disarms, just a lot of full contact "wrestling" over the blue gun.

Even being fully aware of it, I know I muzzle flagged myself at least once while trying to control the BG's blue gun.

[CK1]

I don't know about you guys, it's just that I tend to train more with the pistol as it's fun and a hell of a lot easier for a lazy fat-ass to do.. Have to remind/force myself to remember that chances are that percentage-wise, my hands are what I'm most likely to have to use... so that means push-ups, sit-ups, and my least favorite, running... (then of course, fight training...).

When I see the guys out there who are really good and in top shape it pushes me as I've never been a gym rat, but it's totally necessary, and besides, it seems to help in the shooting department too...