Not So Blinding Revelation RE Left-Shooting Glock Gen4 G22

[JonInWA]

Ok, so it's not exactly a state secret that Gen4 Glocks have somewhat of a predisposition to shoot to the left. In the case of my personal G22, it was by a couple of inches, so I had the rear sight drifted almost to the edge of the slide in the sight trough. Benching established problem resolved.

Or so I thought. Subsequent shooting again asserted slightly to the left (about an inch or less) POI, with a center-hold POA. A bit frustrated, and with a imited amount of remaining slide sight track trough remaining, I decided to step back and re-think/readdress the issue.

Four possibilities came to my mind:

1) Some esoteric mechanical/tolerancing issue with the gun (hardware issue);

2) Ammunition compatibility;

3) Operator issue (AKA the Nut Behind The Wheel) (Software issue).

4) Sight issue (more sight drift or sight replacement needed) (Hardware)

Of the causal factors, ammunition was pretty much immediately eliminated-the cartridges used were the same with my HK VP40.

To sort out the issue, I went to the range with some decent 180 gr genaric standard-pressure factory ball ammunition (Blazer Brass). Starting with 8" black targets at 7-10 yards, I immediately noticed that while most were in the black, those not were the result of improper trigger pull/control...this was a major clue....

I then switched to much SMALLER targets, at a similar distance. The problem vanished-virtually all shots were dead center, in a 1" to 1.5" tight group.

CONCLUSION: Yep, it was the Nut Behind The Wheel; Operator error/technique. Shooting the smaller targets forced me to really concentrate on both sight picture and proper triggerpull technique.
Amazingly enough, when I did so, the G22 was splendidly accurate, showing every bit as much potential as my HK VP40. And I really like the quality of the triggerpull with the OEM "dot connector and OWM coil trigger spring, which provides a nice, crisp and discernible two-stage triggerpull with a clean release. The sights are indeed properly set up on my G22 (and, incidentally, are Glock Steels, at least for the time being and foreseeable future, as they provide a perfectly adequate picture for defensive use, IDPA and GSSF). And yes, the gun DOES inherently have a predilection for shooting toward the left, but rear sight drifting has sufficiently resolved it, to where a center hold POA/POI is achievable without the rear sight needing to be drifted beyoondd the slide sight trough. As I discussed in a previous thread here, the Gen4 G22 is unlikely to be shot a huge amount, as it's mostly a backup in case of another 9mm ammunition shortage, as well as for occasional use in carry and IDPA.

I'm currently running it without additional backstraps, as I've empirically discovered that I index and shoot the best with it that way, after objectively testing will all the backstrap options. I've added a Pierce Gen4 specific butt-plug, and replaced the OEM flat slide stop/release with the Glock extended slide stop/release.

Lubrication is with Weapon Shield for general lubrication, and Lucas Red and Tacky #2 grease for slide/receiver rails and rail interface surfaces, the triggerbar/connector interface areas, barrel exterior and muzzle bushing, locking block/barrel lug interface areas, and inner slide bump-out area that interfaces with the triggerbar's vertical extension. As forum member Clobbersaurus discovered and has discussed (and converted at least me to its use) it's an excellent non-migrating and long lasting lubricant-a particularly good choice for a pistol that may see significant stretches of non-use other than dryfire practice.

Best, Jon

[sierra 223]

For me both my 17 and 19 shoot 1-2 inches left at 5-7 yds. This is with the sights pushed almost all the way to the right as you have described yours.

My son who is also right handed shoots about 1 inch to the right at this same distance.

This tells me that with my pistols that it is me.

The bad thing is that I still have not figured out the solution so that I can center up my sights.

[JHC]

Funny thing. I have some Glocks that have sat in my safe a LONG time without being shot. They were trusted back ups/spares. This year I've broken a few of them out and shot them a good bit. This coming after months of disciplined 150 aggregate as a warm up.

Now I'd noticed that the main shooting Glocks I'd been shooting this year had their rear sights centered. But those older ones must be the left shooters right?

Each of the drifted to the right (rear sights) I dug out of the safe this year - impacted to the right now and I had to center them to shoot center. Rhut rhoo. ;)

[JonInWA]

I'm thinking that a lot of what's happening has to do with a combination of how an individually physiologically indexes to a specific Glock (or other guns-but we're talking Glock here), and how well an individual is in terms of both understanding, mastering, and applying the fundamentals of sight acquisition, sight maintenance, and trigger control and pull.

There are some Glocks (and other guns) that I seem to very naturally index with (my Gen 3 G17 comes quickly to mind, as well as my Gen 3 G19s and G34), and others that require more deliberate focus and concentration-such as, for me, my Gen 3 G21, and the Gen4 G22.. That doesn't make the G21 or G22 "bad" or undesirable Glocks-but it does put me on watch to either really ramp up my practice and use of them, and/or to be more deliberate in my shooting of them.

If they were a duty gun, I'd by necessity spend significant amounts of time with them. But they're not, and I have the luxury of choice (perhaps too much luxury...), so I'll do a combination of analysis/dryfire/livefire and some dedicated usage periods during the year.

I'm realizing the value of practice and selection/use discipline-the reality is, there are too many good options at my disposal, and not enough time to equitably spread the use/dedication wealth. So I can be a bit of a dilettante and continue platform-hopping, or invoke a more disciplined approach, which is in fact what I've become gradually more oriented towards.

But there's always distractions.....

Best, Jon

[Artemas2]

I'm thinking that a lot of what's happening has to do with a combination of how an individually physiologically indexes to a specific Glock (or other guns-but we're talking Glock here), and how well an individual is in terms of both understanding, mastering, and applying the fundamentals of sight acquisition, sight maintenance, and trigger control and pull.

There are some Glocks (and other guns) that I seem to very naturally index with (my Gen 3 G17 comes quickly to mind, as well as my Gen 3 G19s and G34), and others that require more deliberate focus and concentration-such as, for me, my Gen 3 G21, and the Gen4 G22.. That doesn't make the G21 or G22 "bad" or undesirable Glocks-but it does put me on watch to either really ramp up my practice and use of them, and/or to be more deliberate in my shooting of them.

If they were a duty gun, I'd by necessity spend significant amounts of time with them. But they're not, and I have the luxury of choice (perhaps too much luxury...), so I'll do a combination of analysis/dryfire/livefire and some dedicated usage periods during the year.

I'm realizing the value of practice and selection/use discipline-the reality is, there are too many good options at my disposal, and not enough time to equitably spread the use/dedication wealth. So I can be a bit of a dilettante and continue platform-hopping, or invoke a more disciplined approach, which is in fact what I've become gradually more oriented towards.

But there's always distractions.....

Best, Jon


My index from the draw on 9/40 frame glocks always has the front sight touching the left side of the rear notch. I also tend to roll the gun to the left in my hand as I pull the trigger. I don't know if it is because of some Glock-to-hand physical issues or my own bad habits (the latter being more likely). 1911s, sigs, HKs all index just fine for me even though I don't use them often.

I have found dot over dot type sights to be a helpful training aid by letting me know that my alignment is crap. I tend to be more accurate at matches on the guns with straights 8's than traditional 3 dot sights.

[Nephrology]

I have 3 Gen 4 Glocks; a 35, 19, and 17.

Of the 3, only the 17 required a slightly left-of-normal position in the dovetail to put shots at proper windage at 25yd. 19 and 35 both required a little adjustment but are visually pretty much dead center. Elevation is still kind of a work in progress...

Either way I find with Glocks that 99% of the time its a software thing. They require a lot of focus to execute perfectly, and ironically, often in my hands shoot dead center best when I am running through a course of fire and just not thinking about it. My Gen 3 guns still exhibit some leftward drift during slow fire that "magically" disappears when the buzzer goes off...

[sierra 223]

I agree with you that when doing combat style shooting my shots are more centered.

I also agree with the response from Artemas, I sometimes lean my front sight to the left if not careful.

I would love to hear if any of you know what you did that cured your left shooting issues other than shifting rear sight to the right.

[scw2]

I would love to hear if any of you know what you did that cured your left shooting issues other than shifting rear sight to the right.

I think it was ASH that mentioned a great way to test the grip is to just relax and contract your grip, and if it's neutral the sights should stay aligned. If not, you'll see a bias as you change your grip tension. I found out my issue was that I was not gripping the gun in a neutral way such that pressure is 'neutral' front-to-back, and instead getting some leftward push on the front half of the gun. Sinking my fingers of the strong hand further around the grip helped. Big caveat that I've been shooting a CZ and not a Glock, so other factors may be at play here for you on a Glock, but maybe worth doing a quick test in dry fire.

[lwt16]

I'll never forget the first time I fired my brand new Gen 4 G17.

I was at the PD department firing range and couldn't hit a steel plate at 25 yards to save my life. Found myself actually looking at the gun like there was something wrong with it. Got our sight pusher and pushed the rear over so much it looked goofy. My groups were a foot left of what I was aiming at.

Went home and thought things through. Instead of running it without a backstrap, I installed the medium backstrap in it and went back the next day.

Groups came over to just a little off to the left.

Slapped a set of Talons on there and the groups came to dead center.

For me, if the grip is not thick enough, it puts my trigger finger at the wrong spot on the trigger and forces the shots left. With the back strap and the Talons, it must put it just right for my hand.

It took me a really long time to get my issued M&P 9 to not print left. That trigger breaks so far back that my finger/grip pushes all shots to the left unless I focus and pull that trigger straight back with even grip pressure as tight as possible. Dry firing a thousand times helped tremendously on the M&P.

My G43 and G42 are hard to not push left also. I have large hands so I am sure that doesn't help things.

Putting better sights on my G17 Gen 4 was a huge help too. I ran that gun in a shooting school earlier this year and it was a beast. I basically couldn't miss no matter how rapid I was shooting and at all distances.

[Lomshek]

I would love to hear if any of you know what you did that cured your left shooting issues other than shifting rear sight to the right.


Buy a bag of 50 of these dummy rounds (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/cartridge-dummies/saf-t-trainers-dummy-rounds-prod9923.aspx) for less than $25. They'll eventually wear out but last plenty long to be worth the money and are high visibility so you can easily find them on the ground.

Load a magazine with a random mix of live and dummy rounds. Initially use 2/3 dummy to 1/3 live rounds so that you get lots of clicks for more feedback on what you're doing wrong. As you improve you can flip the ratio.

Practice on big and small targets close and far away so you're not just training for one kind of target.

Do some shooting for tight groups and some basic drills like draw and fire 2; draw, fire one, reload, fire one; target transitions and even running to a shooting position then engaging the target. Besides very obvious feedback on grip and trigger errors you'll get lots of practice at Tap, Rack, Bang.

Make adjustments to grip and trigger contact until you find the right set up for you.

You may only fire 50 live rounds in a 2 hour session but your feedback will be greatly enhanced and you'll quickly be drifting the sights back to center.

[JonInWA]

That's a great suggestion, and a great diagnostic tool that one can self-perform and get immediate corrective feedback on.

Best, Jon

[Slalom.45]

My G4 17 has to have the sights every so slightly drifted to the right. My G4 19 is dead center. I don't get it, but I hit where I aim (Most of the time:D) with both so I quit stressing about it.

[JonInWA]

The need to drift the sights didn't particularly bother me, either, Slalom, it was after drifting (and after I'd confirmed a center-hold POA = POI with the drifted sight) when I continued to shoot to the left that I realized that there were other factor(s) at play.

Most of my Glocks (which are all Gen 3s, except for the G4 G22) didn't require sight drifting-but one of my G19s did, albeit not nearly as much as the Gen4 G22. Realistically, as long as the sight apres drifting remains in the sight dovetail, I can live with it. For whatever reasons, the Gen4 Glocks have acquired a reputation for seemingly inherently shooting to the left...I'm not sure if it's across the palette of all Gen4s, or more or less restricted to the Gen4 G22s.

Best, Jon

[DMF13]

Worth considering:
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=10005

[lwt16]

One other thing is that way back in 96 I was pushing shots left with my issue Beretta 96FS in .40 s&w.

Academy instructor came up and I asked if he would drift my sights. He told me to fire it two handed but with my left hand as the primary.

All shots on the x.

Told me to switch back to primary right hand.

All shots to the left.

His words? "Quit milking the grip with your right hand. " followed up with either "idiot" or "rookie".......both synonyms in the PD world anyway. lol

[spinmove_]

I've found Glocks to generally be unkind to over-analytical thinking. The more I try to dissect them and "fine tune" any inconsistencies I have with them, the more they punish me with undesirable hits. Calm down, clear your mind, properly execute the fundamentals (grip, stance, sight package, and trigger control) and they'll hit dead center for you just fine.

My biggest hang up that I've ever had was when I dry fire enough to where I adjust my grip to where everything "feels more comfortable". This is a big no no as I've found it to be a deviation from "correct" more often than not and I'll get punished for it every time by unconsciously learning bad habits.

With Glocks, you're best off to "Just Do It" and drive on.

[LSP552]

Worth considering:
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=10005

Jerry is a friend of mine, and I agree with what he says. For me personally, the front to back pressure is important for not pulling shots slightly left. I will add an observation that older Glocks are more slippery, and that can be a factor also. I find it easier to move shots left when using a well worn 2nd gen or 3rd gen without grip tape on the rear. The 4th gen guns stay anchored better, or the use of grip tape on the front and rear of the slicker guns definitely makes a difference in my long-fingered XL size hands.

[LSP552]

I've found Glocks to generally be unkind to over-analytical thinking....

With Glocks, you're best off to "Just Do It" and drive on.

When it comes to working a Glock trigger, completely agree with this.

[docwatson]

Two things, I talked with Dave Spaulding about this, as I shoot left also, only with Glocks. He stated he has the same problem and thinks it is related to the safety in the trigger and how it hinges as you are pulling the trigger. Secondly, the late Jim Cirillo, taught build your grip of your weapon from the trigger finger backwards. In that, put your trigger finger on the trigger where you want it to be, (empty weapon of course) then take it back to the holster, but don't loose your grip. Then bring it back out and see if your finger falls back where it needs to be, after doing that a few times you should be able to make your draw and get good finger placement for yourself. Cirillo states that he had short thick fingers and actually shot some da revolvers, with his hand more to the side of the revolver, and I think we all know how well he adapted.

[60167]

I think my occasional left grouping is a product of how my hand interfaces with the grip when I pull the gun out of my duty holster. If I take extra time and make sure my sights are centered, I usually get hits where I want them. If I'm in a hurry and use a rough sight picture I find that my shots start moving left as I speed up my draw.

[TCinVA]

Work against a dead trigger the same way you'd do normal dryfire. Look for any movement of the sights. I did this at Bob Vogel's direction and found that due to the way my big meaty paws were on the gun I was actually pushing the gun slightly left-ward at the very end of the trigger pull.

To correct that I need to use a lot less trigger finger on Glocks, and I need to position my trigger finger as low on the trigger as possible. This means that the very tip of my index finger is depressing the trigger button and by all appearances I'm only on half of the trigger.

People with really large hands and people with smaller hands who have to twist the gun in the hand slightly to reach the trigger often experience this problem with Glocks.

[BJXDS]

Work against a dead trigger the same way you'd do normal dryfire. Look for any movement of the sights. I did this at Bob Vogel's direction and found that due to the way my big meaty paws were on the gun I was actually pushing the gun slightly left-ward at the very end of the trigger pull.

To correct that I need to use a lot less trigger finger on Glocks, and I need to position my trigger finger as low on the trigger as possible. This means that the very tip of my index finger is depressing the trigger button and by all appearances I'm only on half of the trigger.

People with really large hands and people with smaller hands who have to twist the gun in the hand slightly to reach the trigger often experience this problem with Glocks.

This works for me as well as making the tigger feel much lighter and almost as smooth as the PPQ. More trigger finger just didn't do the trick.

[Sig_Fiend]

People with really large hands and people with smaller hands who have to twist the gun in the hand slightly to reach the trigger often experience this problem with Glocks.

THIS. Although it may differ from person to person a bit, it seems to be a matter of simple physics and angles at work with several factors. For one, the alignment of the gun in relation to the wrist. A lot of people, myself included, seem to slip into what some refer to as an "over-grip" position, with the gun centered more towards the base of the palm, and less centered towards the wrist, radius and ulna. I would guess that alone is already much more likely to place an influence on movement of the gun while depressing the trigger. In addition, you have the shape of the arch of the backstrap, which when coupled with over-grip, is possibly making it much more likely for the gun to rotate in the hands into even more of an over-grip position. Couple that with the possibility of lateral torque on the trigger, or a support side thumb pressed into the frame, or the base of the index finger (proximal phalanx/flexor digitorum superficialis tendon) on the frame, and you have a perfect storm of torque possibly being applied in every direction except the one you want.

Here are some things that have helped me:



Modify your grip alignment

When you grip the gun in a standard two-handed grip, do you notice the gun is centered pretty heavily towards the base of your thumb? If so, take a second, bring your support hand off of the gun and use it to center the gun inline with your gun hand. The gun will now be centered inline with your entire primary arm, though this alignment doesn't maintain itself 100% once you reestablish your two-handed grip. The alignment with the arm is merely a gauge to get closer to an optimal position with a two-handed grip. Take note of any different feeling in your grip from gripping the gun at this slightly modified angle. What did it do for your trigger finger placement? These are some questions to consider for later, as this may not necessarily fix the problem. For small hands, this might create problems for trigger reach, for example. Now reestablish your two-handed grip, and slow fire for accuracy. Notice anything different? For me, it was significantly less muzzle flip and more consistent shots, as the improved alignment of the gun towards a more "meaty" portion of the hand provided better recoil control and less movement of the gun in my hand.


5 in 1 drill

This one has helped me a lot. I believe it came from Paul Howe, though I don't know if it originated somewhere before him. In essence, for each live round you want to have 5 perfect dry fires. If you did this for an entire 50rd box of ammo, that would be 300 trigger presses (5+1 live). That's assuming each 5 are perfect... Yank one? You need to make it up until you have 5 perfect ones total. This is quick, easy, and if you do it right, a single box of ammo will wear you out! How this seems to really help is, you transition back and forth from live fire to dry fire, with enough of an interval of dry fire, that you will be experiencing proper fundamentals, and quickly transitioning back into live fire. The real value is seeing and experiencing it, as that does far more than any lengthy analysis and explanation will.


Modify trigger finger placement

As there is no one-size-fits-all method, and many different ways people's individual physiology allow this fundamental to be exercised effectively, the truth is you simply need to try out multiple methods and find what works for you consistently. Try LOTS of finger. Try a little, as in just the tip. Try positions anywhere in between. How about low or high on trigger, as I think a few others mentioned? While doing this, do it for score and maintain accountability for your shots, as you want to establish a baseline, and try to determine differences in group size/placement with different methods.


Modify grip tension

This is possibly one of the more difficult factors, since it's not always easy to perceive it based on someone's description. It's something you really have to feel and experience, before you'll experience those light bulb moments of what's going to work best for you. As with trigger finger placement, try a bunch of stuff. Death grip with both. Death grip with just one, and alternate between the two. Now try a light grip. What do you notice with how your sights track in recoil. Have your shot groups been affected? Now change up the way you squeeze what you squeeze and see what that does. For example, most people seem to just squeeze each hand, or at least their gun hand, like they're holding a bat. In essence, a full 360 degree squeeze. Instead, consciously think about squeezing the medial and proximal phalanges (middle or base of your fingers) of your gun hand straight into the front strap, while forcing the base of your thumb forward into the backstrap. The way the average person does it, they might be more focused (whether consciously or subconsciously) in applying tension through their finger tips, into the side of the grip. That does less to control recoil, and could potentially induce some issues.




The comment about Glocks being unkind to overly-analytical thinking is GOLD. A lot of truth to that. At the same time, I would also say that Glocks are superb at highlighting the different effects on the fundamentals caused by individual, physiological differences. Possibly more so than many other platforms.

[martin_j001]

Definitely going to give the above some tries. I have noticed I seem to be shooting left more often lately with both my G17 and G34. Really only noticeable once I get to 15 yards and further, but definitely at 25. Yesterday, I got to play with a buddies 320 and was ringing a quarter size steel target at 25 yards with easily 80-90% of my shots, while my Glock 17 was not treating me as well. Had others confirm the sights were on, so I've got some trigger control work to do. Need to make some more time for dry fire... I'm open to any suggestions anyone might have that may help me out too.

[spinmove_]

There is one thing that I've discovered recently while still more completely eliminating shooting left lately is how my trigger finger moves in relation to the frame. A couple of days ago I noticed that, despite how confidently I'd press the trigger smoothly, and despite how consistent my grip was on the pistol, I was still occasionally pushed the front sight around in dry fire. In an attempt to forcibly eliminate the push by "Vogel-ising" my grip more (exherting a ton of inward torque with both arms for experimentation purposes) I noticed that the index finger on my support hand was starting to grind into the middle finger on my firing hand. This caused my trigger finger to track up inside the trigger guard higher than it normally would to the point where my trigger finger would push up against the frame on the roof of the trigger area. While relaxing this grip and backing off a bit, I noticed that I still had a tendency to have my trigger finger push up against the frame despite not forcibly pushing it into the frame. I then started modifying my trigger press to make sure I made no contact to MAYBE just barely touching the frame just above the trigger. Once I started doing that, I was able to consistently get clean trigger presses. Speeding up my dry fire trigger presses, they remained clean.

This may not be your solution or even what is causing your issue, but it's something I think would be worth investigating. Looking at the frame of Glocks and then comparing them to the frames of a lot of different pistols out there, the Glock is considerably fatter in the area immediately above the trigger than a lot of other solutions.

Maybe I'm just crazy and weird and I'm the only person doing weird pushing on the Glock frame in this manner, but I have a feeling I'm probably not.

[LSP552]

I will add that the ideal finger placement is the one that allows you to finish the press straight to the rear without disturbing the sights. It's really worth experimenting with more, less, up, down to see what works best for you. So much of this is grip and hand size and shape related.

[spinmove_]

I will add that the ideal finger placement is the one that allows you to finish the press straight to the rear without disturbing the sights. It's really worth experimenting with more, less, up, down to see what works best for you. So much of this is grip and hand size and shape related.

Very much this. You almost can't rely on any one person's recommended technique because that particular technique works for that person's particular hands.

[M2CattleCo]

I will add that the ideal finger placement is the one that allows you to finish the press straight to the rear without disturbing the sights. It's really worth experimenting with more, less, up, down to see what works best for you. So much of this is grip and hand size and shape related.

I can't pull a Glock trigger straight back because of the way the middle of my trigger finger hits the frame above the trigger. I think that's also what makes me shoot left with 'em.

I can shoot a Glock decent enough to use 'em for whatever if I practice a lot, but ultimately, I find that I can stay more proficient with less time and effort expended with a regular DA/SA P226 and P239, so I went that route.

[martin_j001]

I can't pull a Glock trigger straight back because of the way the middle of my trigger finger hits the frame above the trigger. I think that's also what makes me shoot left with 'em.

I can shoot a Glock decent enough to use 'em for whatever if I practice a lot, but ultimately, I find that I can stay more proficient with less time and effort expended with a regular DA/SA P226 and P239, so I went that route.

In doing some dry fire just the other day, and paying very close attention to things having recently become very frustrated by shooting left, I noticed this as well. The problem, for me, was made worse by the addition of Grip Force adapters on my gen 3 guns...the extra distance to the trigger, while not greatly increased, seemed to cause my finger to be more prone to contacting the frame above the trigger (not at the typical spot along the side of the gun). I removed the Grip Force adapters, and find that I am still very prone to be in contact with the frame above the trigger. While it is avoidable, it is nowhere near "normal" feeling...yet. It is making me strongly consider a platform change.... :( ETA: I'm assuming this is something I can probably get past with enough repetitions, but the fact that I can pick up a gun I've fondled once and ring steel at 25 yards with relative ease makes me think my efforts may be better invested in improving my capabilities with another platform... Open to thoughts and suggestions, as always...

[spinmove_]

I can't pull a Glock trigger straight back because of the way the middle of my trigger finger hits the frame above the trigger. I think that's also what makes me shoot left with 'em.

I can shoot a Glock decent enough to use 'em for whatever if I practice a lot, but ultimately, I find that I can stay more proficient with less time and effort expended with a regular DA/SA P226 and P239, so I went that route.


In doing some dry fire just the other day, and paying very close attention to things having recently become very frustrated by shooting left, I noticed this as well. The problem, for me, was made worse by the addition of Grip Force adapters on my gen 3 guns...the extra distance to the trigger, while not greatly increased, seemed to cause my finger to be more prone to contacting the frame above the trigger (not at the typical spot along the side of the gun). I removed the Grip Force adapters, and find that I am still very prone to be in contact with the frame above the trigger. While it is avoidable, it is nowhere near "normal" feeling...yet. It is making me strongly consider a platform change.... :( ETA: I'm assuming this is something I can probably get past with enough repetitions, but the fact that I can pick up a gun I've fondled once and ring steel at 25 yards with relative ease makes me think my efforts may be better invested in improving my capabilities with another platform... Open to thoughts and suggestions, as always...

I noted that I discovered that I was having a similar issue in Post #25 and also theorized that I might not be the only one having this issue. I don't know how you guys interface with Glocks, but I know that I was able to make some small changes to how I gripped the pistol and how I interfaced with the trigger in order to prevent this from happening. It still somewhat of a conscious decision to not push my shots left, but it seems to be getting easier the more I dry fire my revised technique and seems to be even less of an issue shooting SHO/WHO.

[martin_j001]

Well, I snagged a P320 to check out (been considering doing that anyway) and went to the range yesterday. I shoot left. Significantly left with my Glocks, and a little left with the P320. It's noticeable from 12 or so yards out pretty much. I don't remember this being as much of an issue in the past, but it definitely is at the moment. Below is some video I did of some dry fire with the G17. I will get similar with the P320 and post that as well. I intend to start dry firing more for sure, and will incorporate advice in posts above as well. I am open to any and all suggestions, as at this point I am rather frustrated...


https://youtu.be/l0NDCEdEtI4


https://youtu.be/UJ085Tt1-ms

[LSP552]

It's really hard to diagnose some issues without actually being there. For me personally, and some others I've worked with, I shoot Glocks better with more grip pressure directly on the front strap and rear, less on the sides. I like my support hand firm but not a crush. Again, this is a personal thing related to my hand and finger size and may be totally non applicable to you. While overgripping may help recoil control, it can also be a negative factor for accuracy, again, depending on hand size, strength and how a particular gun fits you hands.

[LSP552]

Let me add one thing about Gen 3 and 2 Glocks. They are slippery, especially after being carried under hard use conditions for a few years. All of my 2nd and 3 Gen Glocks have grip tape on the front and rear to help my front to rear grip and keep the gun from moving in my hand. If the gun is moving in your hand, it makes it that much harder to press the trigger straight to the rear.

Believe it or not, the addition of grip take on the front and rear made a significant difference for me in preventing the odd shot wondering left to moving out of the group.

My carry 2nd Gen 19 and 17 have grip tape on the right side of the backstrap and front strap. I pretty rountinly carry under a T-shirt in the summer, IWB in a Summer Special 2, and grip tape eats my skin if applied to the left side of the grip.

[martin_j001]

Both my 17 and 34 wear the rubber-y version of Talon Grips already. They definitely help to improve the grip when it's hot or I have sun block on my hands, etc.

[LSP552]

Both my 17 and 34 wear the rubber-y version of Talon Grips already. They definitely help to improve the grip when it's hot or I have sun block on my hands, etc.

I like how the Talon grips felt, but didn't shoot my best with them. They added just enough bulk to the grip to screw me up. One of the things lost in the transition from revolvers to plastic was the understanding that a proper grip fit contributed to better performance. It's nice to see some of the newer plastic people poppers offering some real options in grip fit.

[Mr_White]

Let me add one thing about Gen 3 and 2 Glocks. They are slippery, especially after being carried under hard use conditions for a few years. All of my 2nd and 3 Gen Glocks have grip tape on the front and rear to help my front to rear grip and keep the gun from moving in my hand. If the gun is moving in your hand, it makes it that much harder to press the trigger straight to the rear.

Believe it or not, the addition of grip take on the front and rear made a significant difference for me in preventing the odd shot wondering left to moving out of the group.

My carry 2nd Gen 19 and 17 have grip tape on the right side of the backstrap and front strap. I pretty rountinly carry under a T-shirt in the summer, IWB in a Summer Special 2, and grip tape eats my skin if applied to the left side of the grip.

I do almost the same thing for the same reasons - I put grip tape on the center of the backstrap, but not on the sides of the grip, it eats my skin too.

[JonInWA]

I'm running my Gen 3 G17 with a segment of mountain bike innertube on the receiver. I was running my G21 with the same, but under the premise of "thinner being better" (especially in my Gen 3 non-SF frame) I ended up taking it off that gun. My shooting with the G21 is adequate, but very much a work in progress.

Best, Jon