Just when I thought I was over 1911's.....

[Dagga Boy]

This just came home from JT Timmons with another gun. My logical brain says "stick with polymer HK's", my heart says....screw it, carry this bad boy, you're beard is gray, it's okay."

This Talo Concealed Carry model is one of the 40 where some likely fired now Colt employee grabbed the Special Combat Officer's slide from the custom shop and assembled guns for Talo. JT did a tune up, Harrison sights, and a safety. I like the old school vertical serrations on the slide, retro sights and ring hammer to give it a very traditional 1911 look in a very light, flat, and proportioned package. Feels like an actual extension of the hand. Choices.......:p

[Holmes375]

Very cool, congrats. As a fellow graybeard I'm not sure we ever truly get over the 1911 thing.

[rauchman]

Wow, that's really nice. I still like the 1911-A1 short trigger that this has. Congrats, that's a beauty.

[JAD]

Those Harrison sights work really, really well. My for sure favorite.

[Wondering Beard]

Nyeti, why did you have to go and post that?

I had just managed to convince myself that I didn't want another 1911.

[chiral]

I saw this on someone's sig line on M4Carbine.net....love this quote:

" Your father's 1911. This is the weapon of an American gunfighter. Not as clumsy or random as a Glock. An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age. "

[Robinson]

Now that is very nice. I have a S70 Repro set up with a bead front and Harrison retro rear sight -- it's the best sight you can put in a GI slot IMO.

[CDFIII]

I'm having the same issues. Tried and true HK polymer lover. Unfortunately I just got a call from John Ralston at 5 Shot Leather saying my holsters are ready for my 1911's.

[JonInWA]

That looks quite similar to the concept that I had for my personal Nighthawk Talon II, that has worked well. A retro-look, but with modernized bits where they provided superior performance advantages. I pretty much ended up spec'cing virtually every individual component. Other than a flawed machined frontstrap checkering execution by their frame vendor of that time, it came out meeting all of my expectations.

Best, Jon

With its current VCD grips:

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Nighthawk%20Talon%20II/DSCN3209.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Nighthawk%20Talon%20II/DSCN3209.jpg.html)

With OEM spec'ced VZ Gatorback grips:

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Nighthawk%20Talon%20II/NightTalonII011.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Nighthawk%20Talon%20II/NightTalonII011.jpg.html)

[Poconnor]

Very nice. I picked up a colt Wiley clapp lightweight commander this summer. I just need to order some new Milt sparks leather for it.

[Hambo]

I'm already planning my return to 1911s in case HC gets elected. Same size and weight as my current blaster but half the rounds, but they're magical .45acp so it doesn't matter. ;)

[Dagga Boy]

Nyeti, why did you have to go and post that?

I had just managed to convince myself that I didn't want another 1911.

If I am going, I am bringing others with me...


I'm already planning my return to 1911s in case HC gets elected. Same size and weight as my current blaster but half the rounds, but they're magical .45acp so it doesn't matter. ;)

One of the favorite quotes from my best friend and mentor who as killed like the plague with a 1911 all over the planet..."I like to carry a Glock, but I like to fight with a 1911". A lot of real world experience behind that statement. One of my prized possessions is his 1911. You pick it up and it speaks to you of a time when had leaders who were unapologetic or squeamish about sending people overseas with a mission to quietly kill evil folks who were bent on our destruction.

[Nephrology]

Nyeti just FYI I will hold you personally responsible if I wake up after a night out and find that I am the winning bidder on a CCO 9mm 1911.

[LtDave]

That is exactly how I would set one up. I like it. And I don't even carry a 1911.

[JTQ]

Very nice. Congratulations on a fine looking Colt.

[farscott]

My retro 1911 carry pistol. John Harrison did this for me in 2005, starting with a stainless Series '70 repro. Grips came from the late Jim Alaimo from Nutmeg Sports. He sent John six pairs from which I was able to choose for this project.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/PrecisionGunworksSeries70-7.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/farscott/media/PrecisionGunworksSeries70-7.jpg.html)

[MistWolf]

My father taught me appreciation and respect for the 1911. I taught my sons the same and expect them to pass the tradition on to their children in turn. Thus, I have made our world a better place to live

[LSP972]

Sigh.

DB, I have the same weakness. I have been looking quite closely to the current Colt 04840XE LightWeight Commander... with the knowledge I can load plenty of "light burret/powder ammo" to shoot it a lot, but will still be able to handle full power .45ACP to shoot it for real, if ever necessary. I too have been thinking about it for the same reason Hambo is.

Of course, the several HK45C pistols I have make this 1911 pretty much not needed... but who gives a shit? I have quit shooting trap for good; a guy up north wants my Beretta 682 Gold E, has put a deposit on it, and if he finishes the sale I'll buy a NIB 04840XE in a heartbeat.

The BIG question is... get another IWB kydex holster, or go with a great old-style leather IWB? Like you say... nobody cares WHAT we use anymore, so the need is up to us. Getting old isn't ALL bad...:cool:

.

[M2CattleCo]

That's about the perfect carry 1911.

But I've staked my last plunger tube, fixed my last grip bushing, tuned the last extractor, sear spring, shot the last spring plug across the room....

Have fun!

[EVP]

DB why not?!?

Use the 45c's for beat up guns and carry the 1911.

[flyrodr]

Another cotton-top casting a vote for the CCO-size 1911. Just got this one, my fishing gun, back from Tim Brian, built on a Caspian stainless slide and aluminum frame.

9462

Asked Tim if he could build it to be pretty accurate for this format. He said he thought so. Test target shows he pretty much succeeded.

9463

Runs like a champ too.

[Jeep]

I like the old school vertical serrations on the slide, retro sights and ring hammer to give it a very traditional 1911 look in a very light, flat, and proportioned package.

A classic. Except for a few minor points, and an inch of slide and barrel, it looks just like a weapon a Texas Ranger could have carried on the streets of El Paso in 1916.

[45dotACP]

Nice gat Nyeti! There's something about 1911s that just work for a daily carry piece.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[okie john]

I carry polymer pistols, but my heart belongs to my 1911.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee68/okie_john/LeftI.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/okie_john/media/LeftI.jpg.html)


Okie John

[StraitR]

JB welded Novaks + Spur hammer = LEGIT. I like it OJ!

[Wondering Beard]

If I am going, I am bringing others with me...

Oh wait, I did get a 1911, a Ned Christiansen 1911, last fall. So, I'm safe ... for a little while.

[okie john]

JB welded Novaks + Spur hammer = LEGIT. I like it OJ!

That's not JB weld.


Okie John

[JHC]

I carry polymer pistols, but my heart belongs to my 1911.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee68/okie_john/LeftI.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/okie_john/media/LeftI.jpg.html)


Okie John

Sweet jezus that is glorious.

I've tried to quite 1911s about 10 times. Always get pulled back into ownership at least. But with so many years of volume on Glocks, I really don't shoot 1911s as well at speed, no where near in fact, as I can a Glock 9mm/.40/.357 Sig; and nowhere near as I did in the 80s when I was mostly 1911. That pains my heart. I think its in the narrower grip and short crisp SA trigger. Or something.

[JohnK]

Oh wait, I did get a 1911, a Ned Christiansen 1911, last fall. So, I'm safe ... for a little while.

Can we see??

You guys are killing me. I have been focusing all of my time on the P30 LEM for the last year and have been really fighting the urge to put my 1911 back in my holster. This isn't helping...

[Dave Williams]

Oh wait, I did get a 1911, a Ned Christiansen 1911, last fall. So, I'm safe ... for a little while.

Pics!

[Wondering Beard]

Can we see??

Warning, I take terrible photos with my iPhone.

9465

9466

Front strap treatment
9467

MSH treatment
9468

Stippling on side of slide stop and thumb safety for surety of use
9469

Stippling on back of slide and sight picture (gold bead front)
9470

[Dave Williams]

I've only carried a shield once and never will again but I NEED a Shield Driver rear sight!

[rdtompki]

Nice acquisition. I shoot a 9mm 1911 in competition, but carry HK 9mm plastic. Recently won an RIA 1911 off a random draw prize table; I'm really excited to have a gun that will propel those big bullets out the front end. got me thinking about snagging a Commander for carry in 45ACP, but not all that much choice in CA.

[Kimura]

This just came home from JT Timmons with another gun. My logical brain says "stick with polymer HK's", my heart says....screw it, carry this bad boy, you're beard is gray, it's okay."

This Talo Concealed Carry model is one of the 40 where some likely fired now Colt employee grabbed the Special Combat Officer's slide from the custom shop and assembled guns for Talo. JT did a tune up, Harrison sights, and a safety. I like the old school vertical serrations on the slide, retro sights and ring hammer to give it a very traditional 1911 look in a very light, flat, and proportioned package. Feels like an actual extension of the hand. Choices.......:p

Nice. Looks like it needs a little holster wear for that distinguished look.

[Dagga Boy]

Nice. Looks like it needs a little holster wear for that distinguished look.

LEATHER is enroute.....not kydex, real Neanderthal technology leather.

[Hambo]

LEATHER is enroute.....not kydex, real Neanderthal technology leather.

Bruce Nelson neanderthal design?

[Dagga Boy]

A Brommeland older clip on inside the pants design for a quick throw on, and to store the gun in. I am going to try something I have never done before and AIWB a cocked and locked 1911 in a 5 Shot SME. It is a holster design I trust for AIWB and the gun should be a good fit for it.

[SAWBONES]

Just when I thought I was over 1911's.....

You never really get over 45 Auto 1911s.
They just have so many good characteristics that no other pistol, whether polymer-framed, or 9mm or whatever, truly supersedes them.

I have a Colt lightweight Gunsite CCO, lightly worked over by Steve Morrison, that I carry as much as my G26.
It's actually more comfortable to carry than the Glock, even though it weighs a tad more, because of its narrow configuration.

Yeah, I'm old.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Warning, I take terrible photos with my iPhone.


Stippling on back of slide and sight picture (gold bead front)
9470

Holy amazeballs, man! That orange-peeling is sick.

Epic piece.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LSP972]

Bruce Nelson neanderthal design?

He's been dead a long time. But several of the real good leather makers still produce his stuff.

I suppose some folks do call it neanderthal- although I would be real surprised if DB did.

.

[Trooper224]

Fuck polymer, there, I said it. Then again, I was looking at a Sharps rifle today, so what do I know.

That looks like an old King-Tappan rear sight. Is Harrison making those? One of my faves.

[Trooper224]

LEATHER is enroute.....not kydex, real Neanderthal technology leather.

And some pewter or silver grips, with a steer hear or some such, since you're now a texan and all that.

[PT Doc]

John Harrison is local to me. Wonder how many years the wait list is?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[StraitR]

You're all a bunch of enabling bastards.

[45dotACP]

I keep moving away from 1911s for reasons or another but I always end up coming back to them. The magwell dressed guns tend to be a bit big for concealment for me in the summertime, but when I carry a non magwell gun, it's with flush fitting 7 rounders or a commander in 9mm with 9 rounders and it is very easy to conceal.

A word. I have found that almost every factory 1911 I've fired fails the 10-8 extractor test. I feel that in the interest of avoiding feedway jams, many manufacturers seem to set the tension too light and as a result, you can see a gun that works well with the mag in place but will develop extraction issues. The 10-8 test is not a multithousand round test, but I find that it's a fairly solid indicator of a gun's long term reliability.

Dammit now I need another 1911...one with a rail. Ruger is appealing, but I really like the idea of building another. Doesn't help that foster has blem frames and slides for sale...

[Trooper224]

That's about the perfect carry 1911.

But I've staked my last plunger tube, fixed my last grip bushing, tuned the last extractor, sear spring, shot the last spring plug across the room....

Have fun!

That's okay, leave it to the cool kids. :)

[BWT]

Graduation gift to myself from my spouse is a somewhat substantial sum of money (seriously substantial for me maybe not for all parties included). I'm debating a Springfield Armory TRP.

I've only been thinking about that model for about I dunno 2 and a half years. Then every once in awhile I get a wild hair and think you know... for a $500 down and 8-12 (or however many) weeks plus $1,500 I could get a Warren Tactical in 9mm. But then I've always liked the classic .45 ACP (and the TRP), then I think it's for nostalgia I shoot Glocks. But, I could shoot the 9mm 1911 a lot more.

Or a Glock 43, 26, or S&W 442 BUG.

Welcome to indecision central. I'd say get both, and I could sell my DW CBOB but that was my first handgun and I keep it for sentimental reasons (my father has one of the same models), and I'd like to have both someday.

God Bless,

Brandon

ETA: I could also save for the new Glock 19m and just keep with all of the time and effort I've put into the Glock platform. Anyway, hijack over.

ETA 2: What has me looking at 1911's is truthfully I just enjoy them and find them interesting. Sure, I maybe chastised on the internet and I have more serious guns for serious uses (Glocks, holsters, etc.). But at the end of the day, you get one shot at life enjoy it a little bit and if strapping ol' slab sides on your hip every once in awhile brightens up your day. Who cares about impressing people you'll probably never meet the majority of?

That combined with the latest fad seems to be put a $500 optic on a $500 pistol, then slap $100 sights on it, then slap a $300 WML on it, then slap a match grade comped barrel for another $250, then get the slide milled for another $150-200, and then do frame modifications/magwells/extended controls for another 100-150$ and you're spending $2k anyway. So is a $2,000 1911 now that crazy to consider?

[Paul Sharp]

A Brommeland older clip on inside the pants design for a quick throw on, and to store the gun in. I am going to try something I have never done before and AIWB a cocked and locked 1911 in a 5 Shot SME. It is a holster design I trust for AIWB and the gun should be a good fit for it.

I'm interested in your results. I've carried a 1911 extensively AIWB in a Keeper, and am very happy with my experiences. Never tried leather so I'm curious to hear your thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Robinson]

I carry polymer pistols, but my heart belongs to my 1911.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee68/okie_john/LeftI.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/okie_john/media/LeftI.jpg.html)


Okie John

Wow. I love the looks of that gun.

[Holmes375]

....That looks like an old King-Tappan rear sight....

That was my first thought, too. I believe we may be dating ourselves ;)

[SeriousStudent]

There is nothing quite like a well-used 1911. It reminds me of my childhood, being raised by men that had used 1911's to defend themselves, their brothers, and their country.

I cannot tell you how sad I feel, when I think about my grandfather's 1923 vintage 1911 no longer being in the family.

[Dagga Boy]

There is nothing quite like a well-used 1911. It reminds me of my childhood, being raised by men that had used 1911's to defend themselves, their brothers, and their country.

I cannot tell you how sad I feel, when I think about my grandfather's 1923 vintage 1911 no longer being in the family.

After hearing all the wonderful tales about your grandpa, I am a bit sad myself.

[JohnK]

Warning, I take terrible photos with my iPhone.

9465

9466

Front strap treatment
9467

MSH treatment
9468

Stippling on side of slide stop and thumb safety for surety of use
9469

Stippling on back of slide and sight picture (gold bead front)
9470

Beautiful gun. My ONLY thing I cannot warm up to on a Ned Christianson 1911 is that rear signt, even though I understand it's utility.

[farscott]

John Harrison is local to me. Wonder how many years the wait list is?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I used to be local to him as well and have spent many hours at his shop and at the range with him test-firing builds. I have seven examples of John's work at the moment, including one that has more than 50,000 rounds on it and wears one of the prototypes of his HD rear sight. Another wears a Yost sight with a custom notch to match the BoMar target sight picture as I have lots of time with that exact sight picture. He called Ted Yost and got Ted to send him a sight with no notch machined so that I could have exactly what I wanted. His guns just run and look good doing it.

Last time I talked with John he had so much work he closed his waiting list as it was up to five years. Not sure if he has worked through the backlog enough to reopen the list. Highly recommend an email to him. Top notch individual. He is one of only two guys in the industry to whom I would hand $50,000 without worrying about him disappearing with it.

My favorite Harrison gun on its third finish with a BoMar rear. Later this gun got the prototype HD rear sight and an IonBond finish:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/ColtCombatSpecial2.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/farscott/media/ColtCombatSpecial2.jpg.html)

[Hambo]

He's been dead a long time. But several of the real good leather makers still produce his stuff.

I suppose some folks do call it neanderthal- although I would be real surprised if DB did.



Nyeti made the neanderthal leather remark. In my S. FL climate I prefer kydex because I sweat like a farm animal, but this thread has me picking up the phone (now that's neanderthal) for a 55BN for my vintage custom 1911.

[LSP972]

The 55BN is one of the best OWB/not-too-worried-about-concealed-carry leather holsters, I had for both Grocks and Sigs. I wore both of them quite a bit on the range and while in "uniform" (Class B, as opposed to Class A full unform).

Agreed, in horrible summer conditions here, just as bad as in Florida, slim kydex OWB for full concealed carry use is just best all around... in my mind. Could be "Neanderthal"... I don't care.;)

.

[spinmove_]

Dammit, guys! I just got married, we're looking for a new house, and we're trying to get "player 4" to enter the game. I've been craving a 1911 (not even a semi-custom, even a mil-spec or Range Officer SA 1911 would do) for at least a couple years now. This thread is NOT helping! At all! :P

[Jared]

Nyeti,

I am asking, near to the point of begging, please stop forcing diversity into my gun safe....

Every time I'm to the point of deciding it's time for some consolidation you come up with something that tosses that out the window. Now I'm gonna spend two weeks looking at 1911's and testing my willpower.

[StraitR]

Exactly this ^^^^^^^^

[QuickStrike]

Makes me wanna shoot my wiley clapp 5" again.

I'll never be without a colt 1911. What others call off-center machining and blemishes, I call soul and individuality. :cool:

But seriously I want to replace the poofy looking grip safety and get a real gold bead instead of the brass one.

[45dotACP]

I used to be local to him as well and have spent many hours at his shop and at the range with him test-firing builds. I have seven examples of John's work at the moment, including one that has more than 50,000 rounds on it and wears one of the prototypes of his HD rear sight. Another wears a Yost sight with a custom notch to match the BoMar target sight picture as I have lots of time with that exact sight picture. He called Ted Yost and got Ted to send him a sight with no notch machined so that I could have exactly what I wanted. His guns just run and look good doing it.

Last time I talked with John he had so much work he closed his waiting list as it was up to five years. Not sure if he has worked through the backlog enough to reopen the list. Highly recommend an email to him. Top notch individual. He is one of only two guys in the industry to whom I would hand $50,000 without worrying about him disappearing with it.

My favorite Harrison gun on its third finish with a BoMar rear. Later this gun got the prototype HD rear sight and an IonBond finish:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/ColtCombatSpecial2.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/farscott/media/ColtCombatSpecial2.jpg.html)
That settles it....I want to build a two tone 1911 now...

[farscott]

That settles it....I want to build a two tone 1911 now...

Here is another one of John's. This is a very early gun from him.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/HarrisonCustomSABasic003.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/farscott/media/HarrisonCustomSABasic003.jpg.html)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/HarrisonCustomSABasic005.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/farscott/media/HarrisonCustomSABasic005.jpg.html)

And a much newer one before finish.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/SAMil-SpecBobtail6.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/farscott/media/SAMil-SpecBobtail6.jpg.html)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/SAMil-SpecBobtail5.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/farscott/media/SAMil-SpecBobtail5.jpg.html)

[Dr_Thanatos]

John Harrison is local to me. Wonder how many years the wait list is?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
5 years. Or at least it was last year when I saw him. Super nice guy, helped me out with some sights when he didn't have to.

Sent from my SM-P905V using Tapatalk

[newyork]

Phenomenal. Love his work too. Great carry option.

[coldcase1984]

:cool::cool:On a waiting list at GT Distributors for G19 MOS so not ready to get a new 1911. DB's post has, however, inspired me to get out the MKIV Series '70 GM I bought new while home on leave summer '79 along with a Bianchi IWB leather rig for Sunday Gunday up at The Ranch.

It's nearly accurate as my USPc .45 but still makes me feel like Thomas Magnum...

[Totem Polar]

I have to thank Darryl for yet another inspiring thread. I've got a slide on the way to John for sights because of all this noise. :cool:

[Dagga Boy]

So, nothing like a range session to have a reality check. First, gun is awesome and the sights are great. First magazine or two was good. Then the reality of severe arthritis and a lightweight .45 set in with a solid pre-ignition flinch and way too light a grip for running this kind of pistol efficiently. Got out my therapy gun, 4" S&W Model 14 Hanen Special so I could leave on a positive note. As much as I try, current hand condition, life, etc, and the VP9 and the HK compacts or a heavy S&W shooting .38 seem to be my reality for daily carry and serious shooting. My compromised grip is really becoming an issue, and I am fighting with the insurance for getting some medication that has helped in the past.
I can see carrying the Special Combat Officer's once in awhile, just because it feels great in the hand and....it's simply a great gun, but, like big bore magnum snubs they will not be working guns.

[Malamute]

Interesting perspective, the recoil and hand issues.

I used to have quite a lot of fun shooting a Colt 22 conversion kit on my older National Match. Not tactical-ish, but LOTS of fun.

[ranger]

I am thoroughly enjoying my Springfield Armory Range Officer 5 inch steel frame 1911 in 9mm. Watching for a lightweight commander sized 1911 in 9mm now.

[Dagga Boy]

The reality is nothing feels like a 1911 in the hand. It is hard to not love them. I have a ton of them. I just need to get okay with that perspective of I just don't shoot them as well as other things these days. This hand thing is driving me nuts right now, and I am actually getting a bit worried. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with just enjoying great guns, and the little JT Timmons Special Combat Officer's is a wonderous little pistol.

[Tango]

The 1911 is a timeless weapon. It is 2016 and still in everyday use. When most people pick one up, it is everything they ever thought a handgun should be. Until we start shooting laser beams instead of bullets, this piece will be at the forefront of handguns.

[Robinson]

I am thoroughly enjoying my Springfield Armory Range Officer 5 inch steel frame 1911 in 9mm. Watching for a lightweight commander sized 1911 in 9mm now.


I don't know if you like Colts, but check out their recent Lightweight Commander -- offered in .45ACP and 9mm.

[okie john]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/ColtCombatSpecial2.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/farscott/media/ColtCombatSpecial2.jpg.html)

I grew up in the 70's, so when I think of a custom 1911, this is what pops into my mind. Every time I see a 1911 with a stainless or nickeled slide over a dark frame, it's like having your shoes on the wrong feet.


Okie John

[Wondering Beard]

So, nothing like a range session to have a reality check. First, gun is awesome and the sights are great. First magazine or two was good. Then the reality of severe arthritis and a lightweight .45 set in with a solid pre-ignition flinch and way too light a grip for running this kind of pistol efficiently. Got out my therapy gun, 4" S&W Model 14 Hanen Special so I could leave on a positive note. As much as I try, current hand condition, life, etc, and the VP9 and the HK compacts or a heavy S&W shooting .38 seem to be my reality for daily carry and serious shooting. My compromised grip is really becoming an issue, and I am fighting with the insurance for getting some medication that has helped in the past.
I can see carrying the Special Combat Officer's once in awhile, just because it feels great in the hand and....it's simply a great gun, but, like big bore magnum snubs they will not be working guns.

Would a lighter caliber (9mm or 38 Super to keep things classic) or a heavier (railed) 1911 help?

[MistWolf]

A 9mm 1911 does have less recoil. Recoil in a 45 can also be reduced and softened by shooting "softball" rounds, such as a reduced load with 185 gr slugs

[flyrodr]

Would a lighter caliber (9mm or 38 Super to keep things classic) or a heavier (railed) 1911 help?

As a senior citizen who's shot 1911s in .45 for over 40 years, and who only bought a 5-inch, all-steel 1911 in 9mm a couple of years ago, yes. The weight of the steel 1911, combined with the relatively modest recoil of the 9mm, makes for an altogether more pleasant shooting experience. I was at the range a couple of days ago, trying out various .45 JHP loads for functioning in an aluminum-frame CCO model. These were non +P loads, but compared to the recoil of the 5-inch steel 9mm, it was like shooting my old Model 19 with full-house .357 loads and then switching to wadcutter target loads. That said, I'd never consider the all-steel 9mm as a carry gun. Mine is completely reliable after several thousand rounds, but it weighs a ton, compared to a Glock, M&P, etc. Still, if you want to shoot a 1911 with less recoil, and don't handled, it's a great shooter.

[11B10]

This just came home from JT Timmons with another gun. My logical brain says "stick with polymer HK's", my heart says....screw it, carry this bad boy, you're beard is gray, it's okay."

This Talo Concealed Carry model is one of the 40 where some likely fired now Colt employee grabbed the Special Combat Officer's slide from the custom shop and assembled guns for Talo. JT did a tune up, Harrison sights, and a safety. I like the old school vertical serrations on the slide, retro sights and ring hammer to give it a very traditional 1911 look in a very light, flat, and proportioned package. Feels like an actual extension of the hand. Choices.......:p




Gorgeous firearm - as always, thanks for sharing with us.

[11B10]

That looks quite similar to the concept that I had for my personal Nighthawk Talon II, that has worked well. A retro-look, but with modernized bits where they provided superior performance advantages. I pretty much ended up spec'cing virtually every individual component. Other than a flawed machined frontstrap checkering execution by their frame vendor of that time, it came out meeting all of my expectations.

Best, Jon

With its current VCD grips:

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Nighthawk%20Talon%20II/DSCN3209.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Nighthawk%20Talon%20II/DSCN3209.jpg.html)

With OEM spec'ced VZ Gatorback grips:

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Nighthawk%20Talon%20II/NightTalonII011.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Nighthawk%20Talon%20II/NightTalonII011.jpg.html)




Geez Louise! Beautiful - thanks, Jon.

[11B10]

If I am going, I am bringing others with me...



One of the favorite quotes from my best friend and mentor who as killed like the plague with a 1911 all over the planet..."I like to carry a Glock, but I like to fight with a 1911". A lot of real world experience behind that statement. One of my prized possessions is his 1911. You pick it up and it speaks to you of a time when had leaders who were unapologetic or squeamish about sending people overseas with a mission to quietly kill evil folks who were bent on our destruction.




It is verbiage just like this ^^^^ that cries out to be published, Sir.

[Joe in PNG]

Okay- should I go ahead and get a blued Colt in .38 Super, or just continue to be a un-American commie europellet pizzagun crunchenticker lover?

[Jared]

Okay- should I go ahead and get a blued Colt in .38 Super, or just continue to be a un-American commie europellet pizzagun crunchenticker lover?


Yes, yes you should get that Super. And then post pictures of it on P-F. And then convince me NOT to buy one just like it, because I'm wanting on one too.

Seriously, I love to be pragmatic and stuff, but there's something about the whole 38 Super thing that gets me feeling all hipster inside.

[TR675]

TALO commissioned a run of two-toned .38 Super lightweight Commanders a while back, with night sights and some other updates. I regret not picking one up when I had the chance.

[Jared]

TALO commissioned a run of two-toned .38 Super lightweight Commanders a while back, with night sights and some other updates. I regret not picking one up when I had the chance.

Those things were priced pretty high from what I remember. I saw it and thought "YAY, little brother for my XSE Combat Elite!" Then I saw the price and had a sad. The one I wanted really bad, and never could get a hold of, was the XSE Lightweight Commander.

[TR675]

They were $900-1000 at the local gunshows IIRC; they've gone up since.

[ranger]

My biggest gun sale regret is selling my Colt Commander 38 Super.

[Robinson]

Okay- should I go ahead and get a blued Colt in .38 Super, or just continue to be a un-American commie europellet pizzagun crunchenticker lover?

I owned a blued Colt in .38 Super for a few years. The pistol shot great and was fun to shoot. In the States there is nowhere near the selection of ammunition as with other cartridges though.

[JAD]

So, nothing like a range session to have a reality check. First, gun is awesome and the sights are great. First magazine or two was good. Then the reality of severe arthritis and a lightweight .45 set in with a solid pre-ignition flinch and way too light a grip for running this kind of pistol efficiently. Got out my therapy gun, 4" S&W Model 14 Hanen Special so I could leave on a positive note. As much as I try, current hand condition, life, etc, and the VP9 and the HK compacts or a heavy S&W shooting .38 seem to be my reality for daily carry and serious shooting. My compromised grip is really becoming an issue, and I am fighting with the insurance for getting some medication that has helped in the past.
I can see carrying the Special Combat Officer's once in awhile, just because it feels great in the hand and....it's simply a great gun, but, like big bore magnum snubs they will not be working guns.

I think I can help you out, man.

[JAD]

Those things were priced pretty high from what I remember. I saw it and thought "YAY, little brother for my XSE Combat Elite!" Then I saw the price and had a sad. The one I wanted really bad, and never could get a hold of, was the XSE Lightweight Commander.

You mean this one?http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160801/593be1980374ccf6099cdf236c26c6f3.jpg

[Jared]

You mean this one?http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160801/593be1980374ccf6099cdf236c26c6f3.jpg

Close, the one I wanted was stainless.

That's a nice gun though.

[Hambo]

Would a lighter caliber (9mm or 38 Super to keep things classic) or a heavier (railed) 1911 help?

The softest shooting .45 1911 I had was an original SA TRP Operator with the full length rail.

[StraitR]

Just got this video on tuning an extractor via WC newsletter (Link (http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=7b1a9382c490b04b227c7c2b9&id=675876daa3&e=cf35d58162)). Pretty basic, but a basic understanding of proper extractor tension and tuning is must for any 1911 owner.

Thanks Bill.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSmJd7HaDY&feature=youtu.be

[45dotACP]

Just got this video on tuning an extractor via WC newsletter (Link (http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=7b1a9382c490b04b227c7c2b9&id=675876daa3&e=cf35d58162)). Pretty basic, but a basic understanding of proper extractor tension and tuning is must for any 1911 owner.

Thanks Bill.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSmJd7HaDY&feature=youtu.be
The old bend and check is a bit dated and IMO not as useful as a gauge or a piece of brass that's used as a gauge. It's really easy to set tension too high and you wouldn't know until you test fire.

Granted you don't know if your gun works until you test fire with a gauge either, but I've always found them to produce a better result because a consistent 22-28 ounces of tension will get you what you need and if you go over you can adjust down.

[JAD]

Close, the one I wanted was stainless.

That's a nice gun though.

It was stainless colored when I bought it. The guys at Wilson still do good work on Colts.

[StraitR]

The old bend and check is a bit dated and IMO not as useful as a gauge or a piece of brass that's used as a gauge. It's really easy to set tension too high and you wouldn't know until you test fire.

Granted you don't know if your gun works until you test fire with a gauge either, but I've always found them to produce a better result because a consistent 22-28 ounces of tension will get you what you need and if you go over you can adjust down.

https://wilsoncombat.companycareersite.com

[Jared]

It was stainless colored when I bought it. The guys at Wilson still do good work on Colts.

Well, then that's it. And I'm a pinch jealous.

[45dotACP]

https://wilsoncombat.companycareersite.com
Lol ok. Maybe when I retire. As cool as futzing with guns all day is, I get more satisfaction saving lives...and it pays a little better.

[StraitR]

Lol ok. Maybe when I retire. As cool as futzing with guns all day is, I get more satisfaction saving lives...and it pays a little better.

:p

Plenty of people to work on guns, not enough good people saving lives. ;)

[BWT]

The old bend and check is a bit dated and IMO not as useful as a gauge or a piece of brass that's used as a gauge. It's really easy to set tension too high and you wouldn't know until you test fire.

Granted you don't know if your gun works until you test fire with a gauge either, but I've always found them to produce a better result because a consistent 22-28 ounces of tension will get you what you need and if you go over you can adjust down.

Where could one see a gauge demonstrated or find a gauge at all for this?

God Bless,

Brandon

[45dotACP]

Where could one see a gauge demonstrated or find a gauge at all for this?

God Bless,

Brandon

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/action-frame-tools/extractor-tools/extractor-tension-gauge-set-prod16125.aspx

Use it with a trigger pull gauge. Get a tension that allows your gun to pass the 10-8 test. I try to err on the side of less tension, which allows feeding of more extreme bullet profiles. I use the same tension for 9's and .45's

[JTQ]

I think he was probably looking for the Weigand Tensioning tool http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/action-frame-tools/extractor-tools/1911-extractor-tensioning-tool-prod16110.aspx

[SAWBONES]

Or both.

Weigand's extractor gauge and extractor tensioning tool are used together, along with a trigger-pull gauge, to permit relatively "fine-tuning" of 1911 extractor tension.

I've used 'em for many years at setup, and check my 1911 extractors maybe once a year thereafter, at most.
If you start with a good quality extractor from EGW, Wilson, or Colt, and get it set right, it'll hold correct tension for a long time and many rounds.

[theJanitor]

Another cotton-top casting a vote for the CCO-size 1911. Just got this one, my fishing gun, back from Tim Brian

So you're the guy Tim wrote about. Fantastic pistol.

[flyrodr]

So you're the guy Tim wrote about. Fantastic pistol.

Indeed. And it is. Tim set it up for POA/POI with hardball, and I found a JHP load that has pretty much the same POI, and feeds just as smoothly as the hardball. Good to go in the fishing vest (or a HPG chest pack) or in a couple of Sparks and 5-Shot holsters. First class work, through and through.

[45dotACP]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160802/e8e8876c80ebd283e702b8517d5f11ab.jpg

Chalk it up to "Reasons I love the 1911".

I had 4 rounds of 230gr freedom munitions leftover after function checking the new C&S trigger group in the latest build. I'm not an expert shooter, nor is my group shooting all that great, but I can generally hit a six or eight inch plate at 25 yards regularly. I was floored at this group. The trigger breaks at a short, clean 4lbs and the Kart Barrel really has a preference for 230gr.

I'm in love with this gun.


Also, about the weigand tool...I never used it. Bought it, but bending manually seemed to work best for me.

[camsdaddy]

I really hope you can get those groups to open up. That gun is not combat accurate. I've come to the conclusion combat accurate is a term used to excuse a gun being inaccurate and justified by spreading the bullets out to provide blood flow from separate areas.
I'm just kidding that's pretty good shooting in my book. That's definitely a reason to consider a 1911 if there is one.

[serialsolver]

I'm so over 1911's.

I just keep this one for the times when I'm not over them.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/IMG_0255_zpsbe2d443b.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/IMG_0255_zpsbe2d443b.jpg.html)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Joe in PNG]

Well, I thought and thought about grabbing a basic blue Colt in .38 Super or 9mm... but went with another pizza gun instead. A 92 Compact in this case.

[coldcase1984]

Dug the ol' gal outta the safe for a quick picture. When I was in college after the service, I packed this blaster in my book bag every day illegally; long before there was a shall-issue law in Tennessee. Then carried it in my briefcase as a reporter and editor at our local paper for seven years; the liberal shitbags I worked for never knew.

This was at a time when newspapers were getting shot up as frequently as post offices in the late '80s. I'd resolved while in the service I'd never trust my defense to anyone but myself.

Aftermarket parts:

Had the MMC fixed sights installed summer '81 and blew the gunsmith's mind by suggesting he drill and tap the rear one so it could maintain zero with a set screw. It still plants 230s in tidy groups. Only other changes were the trigger, trigger job and NM bushing about '93.

When I finally got on the cops in '92, this and a SIG P226 were my off duty guns for several years. Then I got into Glocks and the MkIV is now only packed a few times a year when I'm nostalgic. After the Revolver Roundup I'm more convinced than ever that eight or nine rounds and a refill will solve many of life difficulties.

Thing is in the last 37 years, this worn beauty has become less comfortable on the hip in the tattered old Bianchi Pistol Pocket. So thinking I need an AIWB rig and start packing it more frequently. 9668

[Nephrology]

Dug the ol' gal outta the safe for a quick picture. When I was in college after the service, I packed this blaster in my book bag every day illegally; long before there was a shall-issue law in Tennessee. Then carried it in my briefcase as a reporter and editor at our local paper for seven years; the liberal shitbags I worked for never knew.

This was at a time when newspapers were getting shot up as frequently as post offices in the late '80s. I'd resolved while in the service I'd never trust my defense to anyone but myself.

Aftermarket parts:

Had the MMC fixed sights installed summer '81 and blew the gunsmith's mind by suggesting he drill and tap the rear one so it could maintain zero with a set screw. It still plants 230s in tidy groups. Only other changes were the trigger, trigger job and NM bushing about '93.

When I finally got on the cops in '92, this and a SIG P226 were my off duty guns for several years. Then I got into Glocks and the MkIV is now only packed a few times a year when I'm nostalgic. After the Revolver Roundup I'm more convinced than ever that eight or nine rounds and a refill will solve many of life difficulties.

Thing is in the last 37 years, this worn beauty has become less comfortable on the hip in the tattered old Bianchi Pistol Pocket. So thinking I need an AIWB rig and start packing it more frequently. 9668

Beautiful, well worn pistol.

[45dotACP]

Awesome gun coldcase

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[That Guy]

You people need to stop this 1911 talk immediately. I mean, I just got a new soulless plastic people popper, I can't afford any new guns, I need to get the ones I have set up properly, I can't afford the three gazillion magazines running a 1911 would need, I don't really need to worry about plunger tubes and whatnots, and besides the logistics of shooting anything other than 9mm in this country are problematic - and here I am googling whether anybody even sells .38 Super ammunition in this country (and yes, someone does)...

[Hambo]

Dug the ol' gal outta the safe for a quick picture. When I was in college after the service, I packed this blaster in my book bag every day illegally; long before there was a shall-issue law in Tennessee. Then carried it in my briefcase as a reporter and editor at our local paper for seven years; the liberal shitbags I worked for never knew.

This was at a time when newspapers were getting shot up as frequently as post offices in the late '80s. I'd resolved while in the service I'd never trust my defense to anyone but myself.

Aftermarket parts:

Had the MMC fixed sights installed summer '81 and blew the gunsmith's mind by suggesting he drill and tap the rear one so it could maintain zero with a set screw. It still plants 230s in tidy groups. Only other changes were the trigger, trigger job and NM bushing about '93.

When I finally got on the cops in '92, this and a SIG P226 were my off duty guns for several years. Then I got into Glocks and the MkIV is now only packed a few times a year when I'm nostalgic. After the Revolver Roundup I'm more convinced than ever that eight or nine rounds and a refill will solve many of life difficulties.

Thing is in the last 37 years, this worn beauty has become less comfortable on the hip in the tattered old Bianchi Pistol Pocket. So thinking I need an AIWB rig and start packing it more frequently. 9668

That looks great. I've been looking hard at one of these: http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Series-70

[Robinson]

That looks great. I've been looking hard at one of these: http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Series-70

I own a basic Series 70 Repro and a Series 70 Gold Cup National Match. The basic S70 I've changed a few things on, but the GCNM remains stock for now. They are both very nice pistols, never a single malfunction, with good triggers.

[BWT]

So, nothing like a range session to have a reality check. First, gun is awesome and the sights are great. First magazine or two was good. Then the reality of severe arthritis and a lightweight .45 set in with a solid pre-ignition flinch and way too light a grip for running this kind of pistol efficiently. Got out my therapy gun, 4" S&W Model 14 Hanen Special so I could leave on a positive note. As much as I try, current hand condition, life, etc, and the VP9 and the HK compacts or a heavy S&W shooting .38 seem to be my reality for daily carry and serious shooting. My compromised grip is really becoming an issue, and I am fighting with the insurance for getting some medication that has helped in the past.
I can see carrying the Special Combat Officer's once in awhile, just because it feels great in the hand and....it's simply a great gun, but, like big bore magnum snubs they will not be working guns.

I've wrapped up my Bachelor's this last week and I have some time.

I was looking at 1911's pretty hard again these last few months and I wanted to share something I came across. It may help or it may not. You're much more experienced than I and you have more connections/capabilities than I.

But, I'll share non the less and maybe it'll help.

I was looking at SA TRP's and reviews on them and looked up the Trophy Matches and came across this thread about a month ago while surfing the internet on calguns.

www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=824424

In it this shooter has a couple of videos in post #1.

He reported a clocking issue with the extractor and replaced the Firing Pin Stop with a EGW flat bottom firing pin stop to correct the issue and remedy the recoil.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZQ3ML_7KuW4#t=0

This video was absolutely stunning to me because of the complete lack of muzzle flip (now given he's shooting match loads which I think are lighter).

I did a bit further searching and found this video with a similar experience.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWLRx5lzCoY&feature=youtu.be

I found a pretty comprehensive thread on this discussion (50-ish pages).

forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?13060-Amazing-reduction-in-perceived-recoil-with-a-simple-part-change-EGW-firing-pin-stop/page50&highlight=firing%20stop

It seems that this was the original design but given the geometry of the firing pin stop being flat caused increased difficulty (ETA: cycling the slide) with hammer down. Thus, like the grip safety was rounded to aid horseback cavalry; the firing pin stop was rounded.

I found it interesting that it was reportedly squared at the time of the original design and that pistol smiths tuned the flat bottomed firing pin stops based off of early model 1911's. It seems that the barrel basically remains in place longer which allows more of the gas, etc. to exit the barrel by the time it "unlocks" (layman) which reduces recoil.

It seems that these flat bottom firing pin stops see some usage in really short slide/barrel guns as well to slow their cycling. Normal spring configuration.

Normally, I'm reluctant to suggest any kind of spring changes or anything that may modify the reliability of a gun. But, the part seems to run with normal lb main spring and recoil springs, and it was only rounded after the request was made by the U.S. Army (similar to the grip safety); so I feel it still embodies the original design parameters of Browning.

I enjoy your threads and posts, and I hope this helps you or someone else in some way.

God Bless,

Brandon

[Trooper224]

I recently fit a flat bottom FPS to one of my 1911s as an experiment. It mitigates recoil a bit, but honestly it doesn't seem to have the dramatic effect that many claim. A bit yes, but hardly a day and night difference.

[BWT]

I recently fit a flat bottom FPS to one of my 1911s as an experiment. It mitigates recoil a bit, but honestly it doesn't seem to have the dramatic effect that many claim. A bit yes, but hardly a day and night difference.

I forgot to add.

I have not used it at all, but for $15; I figured maybe it was a suggestion worth making.

God Bless,

Brandon

[Trooper224]

It is worth mentioning and does have some effect. I only comment because some seem to feel it's a real game changer. That just wasn't my experience.

[45dotACP]

It is worth mentioning and does have some effect. I only comment because some seem to feel it's a real game changer. That just wasn't my experience.
For me, it was a hindrance. It made the gun significantly harder to rack which, for unloaded starts in USPSA is a problem. It doesn't bother much having the rounded FPS and I only consider them a necessity for shorter .45s.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[farscott]

I like the non-radiused firing pin stops in guns that are chambered in something like 9x23 Winchester or to allow me to control, by adding the appropriate radius, where on the hammer the cocking force is applied on a caliber-by-caliber basis. On the more energetic calibers, it makes a difference.

[Tango]

Outstanding gun.

[Tuesday]

The standard (i.e. small) radius firing pin stop is a reliability feature. The leverage disadvantage absorbs more of the impulse of the slide at the beginning of the slide's travel, sparing the extractor compared to a heavier recoil spring, which slows the slide as the slide moves rearward.

Because of Newton's third law—for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction—you cannot reduce recoil, regardless of what you think you feel, by changing (effecrive) spring rates. At most you'll change when you experience the recoil impulse during the cycling of the pistol.

[farscott]

The standard (i.e. small) radius firing pin stop is a reliability feature. The leverage disadvantage absorbs more of the impulse of the slide at the beginning of the slide's travel, sparing the extractor compared to a heavier recoil spring, which slows the slide as the slide moves rearward.

Because of Newton's third law—for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction—you cannot reduce recoil, regardless of what you think you feel, by changing (effecrive) spring rates. At most you'll change when you experience the recoil impulse during the cycling of the pistol.

I am not sure I am following you. The larger the radius applied to the bottom of the firing pin stop, the higher on the hammer the firing pin stop impacts. That allows the hammer to experience more applied torque for the same given slide force (mass times acceleration). So providing a larger radius to the firing pin stop makes cocking the hammer easier. For the flat-bottom firing pin stop, the slide needs to provide more force to cock the hammer as the force is applied closer to the hammer's center of rotation. Another way to think about it is that there is a given amount of torque needed to cock the hammer, and there are several variables that can be changed to adjust that torque. One variable is where the torque is applied, another variable is slide acceleration, and a third is the mainspring spring constant. A fourth would be the recoil spring constant. There are other variables, including how the barrel bushing is fitted, but the four listed are the primary ones. The variable we are discussing is the torque. The initial reason for the radius was to make loading easier when starting with the hammer in the at rest position.

Since cartridges that have more recoil energy (same slide travel, so has to be more force, so more acceleration as slide mass is constant) apply more recoil acceleration to the slide, it makes sense to use a smaller radius on the firing pin stop. The same amount of torque is applied to cocking the hammer, but more of the slide's rearward travelling energy (force * distance) is needed to cock the hammer. That makes the gun's perceived recoil seem less as the slide is using more energy to cock the hammer than it would with the "standard".

It is also the reason why a flat-bottom stop should not be fitted on a 9x19 pistol as the amount of acceleration provided by the 9x19 round is already marginal for the 1911 design. My 9x23 gun also has a barrel fitted with a Kart 9x19 barrel. To use the same firing pin stop and mainspring from the 9x23 with the 9x19 barrel, the recoil spring is a 9# unit and the gun is hard chromed to decrease frictional losses. The 9x23 barrel uses a 18# recoil spring. While perceived recoil with the 9x23 is more than the 9x19 barrel, most shooters feel it is similar to a standard .45 ACP, even though the 9x23 energy is much more.

[Tuesday]

I am not sure I am following you. The larger the radius applied to the bottom of the firing pin stop, the higher on the hammer the firing pin stop impacts. That allows the hammer to experience more applied torque for the same given slide force (mass times acceleration). So providing a larger radius to the firing pin stop makes cocking the hammer easier. For the flat-bottom firing pin stop, the slide needs to provide more force to cock the hammer as the force is applied closer to the hammer's center of rotation. Another way to think about it is that there is a given amount of torque needed to cock the hammer, and there are several variables that can be changed to adjust that torque. One variable is where the torque is applied, another variable is slide acceleration, and a third is the mainspring spring constant. A fourth would be the recoil spring constant. There are other variables, including how the barrel bushing is fitted, but the four listed are the primary ones. The variable we are discussing is the torque. The initial reason for the radius was to make loading easier when starting with the hammer in the at rest position.

Since cartridges that have more recoil energy (same slide travel, so has to be more force, so more acceleration as slide mass is constant) apply more recoil acceleration to the slide, it makes sense to use a smaller radius on the firing pin stop. The same amount of torque is applied to cocking the hammer, but more of the slide's rearward travelling energy (force * distance) is needed to cock the hammer. That makes the gun's perceived recoil seem less as the slide is using more energy to cock the hammer than it would with the "standard".

It is also the reason why a flat-bottom stop should not be fitted on a 9x19 pistol as the amount of acceleration provided by the 9x19 round is already marginal for the 1911 design. My 9x23 gun also has a barrel fitted with a Kart 9x19 barrel. To use the same firing pin stop and mainspring from the 9x23 with the 9x19 barrel, the recoil spring is a 9# unit and the gun is hard chromed to decrease frictional losses. The 9x23 barrel uses a 18# recoil spring. While perceived recoil with the 9x23 is more than the 9x19 barrel, most shooters feel it is similar to a standard .45 ACP, even though the 9x23 energy is much more.

Leverage is the same as torque here. Calling it one or the other makes no difference whatsoever. The hammer cocks only the first little bit of slide travel and has relatively little effect on the slide thereafte. The hammer requires constant force to cock, regardless, because the down and fully-cocked/positions are the same regardless. The larger the FPS radius, the more leverage the slide has on the hammer, the more leverage the more distance required to cock the hammer, and thus greater initial slide velocity, but no substantive difference once the hammer is cocked.

The rest of the factors are irrelevant because we're obviously considering all other factors equal.

And unpacking it at the other end works the same way. Your feelings are a lie. You're getting the same recoil impulse.

[BWT]

It requires more leverage or atleast a longer duration because the slide takes more time and/or energy to unlock.

Then again, maybe John Moses Browning was a moron and made the change and the US Army didn't know how trust their lying eyes.

This isn't some dude talking about his snake oil. The change was made to ease the process of cocking the hammer by a man that revolutionized every version of small arm known to man.

I'd be careful to call people liars over a Flat Bottom Firing Pin Stop. Especially when there are literally millions of examples of that firearm floating around and it's been around over 100 years.

God Bless,

Brandon

[StraitR]

Well, I thought and thought about grabbing a basic blue Colt in .38 Super or 9mm... but went with another pizza gun instead. A 92 Compact in this case.

Normally, I would FULLY support and applaud that decision, but right now all this PF 1911 talk has given me the withdrawn shakes. I can't decide if I want to take a chance on the new Colt LW Commander 9mm (http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Lightweight-Commander) or sell off six pistols and get a Wilson Combat Ultralight Commander 9mm (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Ultralight-Carry-Commander-9mm-Black_Flat-Dark-Earth/productinfo/HANDGUN1387/).

YIKES!

I can't find much on the new 9mm Colt LW Commander.

[Jared]

Normally, I would FULLY support and applaud that decision, but right now all this PF 1911 talk has given me the withdrawn shakes. I can't decide if I want to take a chance on the new Colt LW Commander 9mm (http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Lightweight-Commander) or sell off six pistols and get a Wilson Combat Ultralight Commander 9mm (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Ultralight-Carry-Commander-9mm-Black_Flat-Dark-Earth/productinfo/HANDGUN1387/).

YIKES!

I can't find much on the new 9mm Colt LW Commander.

What would you like to know about Colt's new 9mm LWC?

[StraitR]

What would you like to know about Colt's new 9mm LWC?

10-8 performance extractor test results?
Extractor fit
Barrel fit (link, hood, bushing)
Bushing to slide fit
Small parts fit (i.e. loose safety/beavertail)
Slide to frame fit (not end of the world, but curious)
Obvious defects

And the typical stuff...

Functionality issues, Round count, failures, parts breakage, what mags are working/not working?

I'm really interested in this Colt.

ETA: I found this article on 9mm vs. .45acp 1911's by Bill Wilson (http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/12/bill-wilson-of-wilson-combat-9mm-vs-45-acp-1911s/#bill-wilson-of-wilson-combat-2) very encouraging.

[Totem Polar]

^^^watching...

[HCM]

Normally, I would FULLY support and applaud that decision, but right now all this PF 1911 talk has given me the withdrawn shakes. I can't decide if I want to take a chance on the new Colt LW Commander 9mm (http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Lightweight-Commander) or sell off six pistols and get a Wilson Combat Ultralight Commander 9mm (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Ultralight-Carry-Commander-9mm-Black_Flat-Dark-Earth/productinfo/HANDGUN1387/).

YIKES!

I can't find much on the new 9mm Colt LW Commander.

Split the difference and get a Dan Wesson Valkrye Commander.

[45dotACP]

I've got a 1991 series Commander in 9mm. I find that overall I like the gun, but there were a few things that irritated me after a bit.
-Extractor tension: Didn't pass the 10-8 test, but after a quick bend and checking the gauge, it does.
-Springing: The gun seems a bit heavily sprung for a 9mm.
-Barrel fit: The gun rides the link and the bushing is loose. It's accurate enough to stay in a USPSA A zone at 25 yards, but it's not quite as accurate as I'd expected. Will be adjusting with an EGW bushing
-Trigger: Was bleh, even for a 1911. Not on account of the Series 80 system, but it was just a bit heavier of a break than I expected.
-Mag catch: Not adequately relieved. 10 round metalform mags won't drop free and are difficult to insert.

I ended up replacing the rat tail beavertail and the rear sight with a 10-8, but the LW has a novak dovetail and a beavertail.

Not certain if these things would carry over the LW commander, but I'd probably suggest the DW if you're looking at a gun that doesn't need some finishing work.

[farscott]

Leverage is the same as torque here. Calling it one or the other makes no difference whatsoever. The hammer cocks only the first little bit of slide travel and has relatively little effect on the slide thereafte. The hammer requires constant force to cock, regardless, because the down and fully-cocked/positions are the same regardless. The larger the FPS radius, the more leverage the slide has on the hammer, the more leverage the more distance required to cock the hammer, and thus greater initial slide velocity, but no substantive difference once the hammer is cocked.

The rest of the factors are irrelevant because we're obviously considering all other factors equal.

And unpacking it at the other end works the same way. Your feelings are a lie. You're getting the same recoil impulse.

The hammer requires a set torque, not force, to cock. That is why the change in the firing-pin stop radius allows a 1911 with a generous radius on the bottom of that stop to cock so much "easier". The user needs less force because the lever arm applied to the hammer is longer. The difference in cocking a hammer with a flat-bottom stop and with a typical Colt radius is very noticeable when done by hand.

In the sense that the recoil impulse applied to the entire gun is the same, yes, it is the same amount of recoil energy. But perceived recoil is a function of the how the impulse is spread over time. One thing the flat-bottom firing pin stop does is make the recoil impulse take a bit longer (more force needed applied to hammer means less energy left in the moving slide so a bit lower slide velocity) and the peak recoil impulse is lessened. That shows up as less perceived recoil. It also allows the use of a smaller spring constant for the recoil spring, which minimizes the "muzzle dip on close" phenomenon. These are relatively minor changes in how the gun feels, but they are quite real.

[fatdog]

Split the difference and get a Dan Wesson Valkrye Commander.

For the price, I love the DW Guardian, if one has any appetite for the bobtail airweight commander. I replaced the sights on mine with Warren's, installed an Ed Brown thin ambi safety, thinned the oversize slide release, replaced the smooth mainspring housing with a checkered Ed Brown, and the grips with some rough diamond thin version VZ G10's. Now about 4K rounds later I have what I have always wanted in a 1911 carry gun. Accuracy has exceeded my expectations and I can only remember a few malfunctions, all of which I can attribute to some older aftermarket magazines it does not like so much. Not knocking the Wilson option but it would be hard to sell me one now.

[Jared]

10-8 performance extractor test results?
Extractor fit
Barrel fit (link, hood, bushing)
Bushing to slide fit
Small parts fit (i.e. loose safety/beavertail)
Slide to frame fit (not end of the world, but curious)
Obvious defects

And the typical stuff...

Functionality issues, Round count, failures, parts breakage, what mags are working/not working?

I'm really interested in this Colt.

ETA: I found this article on 9mm vs. .45acp 1911's by Bill Wilson (http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/12/bill-wilson-of-wilson-combat-9mm-vs-45-acp-1911s/#bill-wilson-of-wilson-combat-2) very encouraging.

I'll do what I can for you, with the appropriate statement that I'm not a pro at gun reviews.

I like the gun. The typical fit stuff is good, slide on mine doesn't rattle if you shake the gun or anything like that. The bushing can be taken down by hand, typical of a factory Colt in my experience. Same thing with small parts fit. It's pretty much standard factory Colt, so it's not Wilson Combat good, but it's a step above some of the lower end stuff that I've seen out there.

I haven't run the 10-8 extractor test on it, and I'm not the type to test the extractor fit. My basic rule is I'll take it and shoot it. If it works, I tend to not worry. If it don't, it goes to the mother ship. Mine has worked with ball ammo, using the two supplied mags and three Wilson ETM so far. But, I'm only 300 rounds in, so it's a small test.

I really got it because I like Colts, I really like the idea of a LWC in 9mm, and when I was handling them side by side it seemed better put together and had a better trigger than the Springfield RO champion that I also coonfingered. I'm never gonna carry it, I use pizza guns for that stuff. I may find a match to shoot with it sometime, for grins. Since it's more of a hobby type gun for me, I couldn't justify Wilson money for a 9mm LWC.

I hope this helps, but I know it's not as in depth as you were hoping.

[StraitR]

I hope this helps, but I know it's not as in depth as you were hoping.

No worries, that's your experience so far, and it's useful information. Appreciate you taking the time to share.

[Jared]

No worries, that's your experience so far, and it's useful information. Appreciate you taking the time to share.

Glad I could offer a small bit of help. I've had this thing like a month, so it is pretty new to me. If you'd like I can post an update or shoot you a PM when I cross 1000 rounds with it, but that may take a bit. At that point you may have already made your decision.

[StraitR]

Glad I could offer a small bit of help. I've had this thing like a month, so it is pretty new to me. If you'd like I can post an update or shoot you a PM when I cross 1000 rounds with it, but that may take a bit. At that point you may have already made your decision.

Appreciate it, but yeah, I'll be lucky if I go the weekend without buying something. My weakness comes right around 1am after I've consumed all my willpower for the day. (https://www.amazon.com/Willpower-Instinct-Self-Control-Works-Matters/dp/1583335080/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1471030753&sr=1-1&keywords=the+willpower+instinct) :o

[Jared]

Appreciate it, but yeah, I'll be lucky if I go the weekend without buying something. My weakness comes right around 1am after I've consumed all my willpower for the day. (https://www.amazon.com/Willpower-Instinct-Self-Control-Works-Matters/dp/1583335080/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1471030753&sr=1-1&keywords=the+willpower+instinct) :o

I hear ya, I really do.

[Totem Polar]

Can you just get it over with, and post a killer picture of your LW Commander, Jared? No sense in Craig dragging things out; rip off the band-aid for him, why dontcha, that's what friends do. :cool:

[StraitR]

Can you just get it over with, and post a killer picture of your LW Commander, Jared? No sense in Craig dragging things out; rip off the band-aid for him, why dontcha, that's what friends do. :cool:

I would certainly like to see pics of that Colt. I love some good gun pron, especially the 1911 variety, but...

9828

I've got plans, glooorious plans, and I have all you jerks to blame thank for it. :p

[Jared]

Can you just get it over with, and post a killer picture of your LW Commander, Jared? No sense in Craig dragging things out; rip off the band-aid for him, why dontcha, that's what friends do. :cool:

Well, I've got two problems there. I don't have any pics already taken of it, and I've never posted a pic online, so I'd probably screw it all up.

[HCM]

For the price, I love the DW Guardian, if one has any appetite for the bobtail airweight commander. I replaced the sights on mine with Warren's, installed an Ed Brown thin ambi safety, thinned the oversize slide release, replaced the smooth mainspring housing with a checkered Ed Brown, and the grips with some rough diamond thin version VZ G10's. Now about 4K rounds later I have what I have always wanted in a 1911 carry gun. Accuracy has exceeded my expectations and I can only remember a few malfunctions, all of which I can attribute to some older aftermarket magazines it does not like so much. Not knocking the Wilson option but it would be hard to sell me one now.

I hate Bobtail 1911's on both aesthetic and general principals, hence my recommendation for the Valkrye. DW is making great guns. I have a Valor .45 and want one in 9mm.

[Larry Sellers]

I hate Bobtail 1911's on both aesthetic and general principals, hence my recommendation for the Valkrye. DW is making great guns. I have a Valor .45 and want one in 9mm.

I have a valkyrie commander with about 4500 through it. When i first got it (1/16) it had a super tight chamber and wouldn't eject the brass due to the dimensions. Off to DW to have it reamed and 2 weeks later received it back. I had 2x extractors fitted as well as adding a 10-8 rear sight on the weapon. I played around with the recoil spring weights and settled on a 14# progressive spring and it has had zero issues. Its been great, just trying to find the best aiwb for it. I would recommend a DW pistol, great value for the money as well as quality.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160813/827c455f00576d9e786c65a883c3c5f8.jpg

[fatdog]

settled on a 14# progressive spring
same for my Guardian, flawless with everything

[P.E. Kelley]

Truly the biggest issue I have with this forum...are threads like this one! STOP with the 1911's! I love/hate them and don't need 5 more of them...ok....I want 5 more!

[StraitR]

Tell me about, Patrick. :D


cool...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jig-RvZr1OM&list=PL2nVFZ2ukJZ-Ae6MPDRF4lLO1fBJS1rGj&index=1

[Lost River]

For guys who cut their teeth on 1911s, they will get this gun.

It is sort of an ode to old school with some newer improvements added.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Handguns/P1010624_zps5h9bvxep.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Handguns/P1010624_zps5h9bvxep.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Handguns/P1010623_zpsrzvcxbrw.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Handguns/P1010623_zpsrzvcxbrw.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Handguns/P1010625_zpsvd6dpfwy.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Handguns/P1010625_zpsvd6dpfwy.jpg.html)

The old Colt is a 1970s era Lightweight Commander that came to me out of south Texas, where I was told that it was a lawman's gun until he retired/passed on. I did some updates, as I simply cannot run a gun w/o a beavertail and not get bloody. Back in service!

I kept the sights exactly as they were, as you rarely see a 1911 so configured these days, and they scream "old school" to me. The CT grips will cover my low light needs.

The one thing (photo wise) that is bugging the HELL out of me though is that for whatever reason I did not notice that one of the mags was in the mag pouch backwards. It is way too hot outside to go take new pics today, but that annoys me to no end....

My grandfather's old Zippo from around World War 2 (I think) however.. :cool:

[P.E. Kelley]

Old school is cool. This is my F. Bob Chow Gun in 38 special WC.

http://www.multigunmedia.com/img/s2/v4/p908359275-4.jpg

[Lost River]

Bob Chow. That is a name I had not heard in a while!

Now if you wanna continue the old school theme Pat, you rustle up some old "Idaho City" stamped leather stuff from the boys down by the river rock it!

[SAWBONES]

The one thing (photo wise) that is bugging the HELL out of me though is that for whatever reason I did not notice that one of the mags was in the mag pouch backwards. It is way too hot outside to go take new pics today, but that annoys me to no end....


But that's exactly how that double mag pouch (Milt Sparks, circa 1985) was intended to hold the mags, and was so pictured in the original catalogue. I had one.

The mags each face outward, not with bullets forward on both. The basket-weave stamping was traditional too. :cool:

[JTQ]

I hate Bobtail 1911's on both aesthetic and general principals, ...
I'm with you on this one.

[P.E. Kelley]

Bob Chow. That is a name I had not heard in a while!

Now if you wanna continue the old school theme Pat, you rustle up some old "Idaho City" stamped leather stuff from the boys down by the river rock it!

I only have a few pieces of that gear left. Maybe a Min Max and some mag pouches...Oh and a OWB for a 625.

[Lost River]

But that's exactly how that double mag pouch (Milt Sparks, circa 1985) was intended to hold the mags, and was so pictured in the original catalogue. I had one.

The mags each face outward, not with bullets forward on both. The basket-weave stamping was traditional too. :cool:

They werebuilt that way. The one pictured was built in the early 90s, with the mags both oriented the same way. Ugh.

[That Guy]

What was the idea with having the mags oriented differently in those older mag pouches?

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

[Chuck Whitlock]

What was the idea with having the mags oriented differently in those older mag pouches?

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

If you look at the picture, with the way the belt loop comes between the magazines and snaps to the front of the pouch, if the second magazine were seated bullets forward, there is a pretty good chance that the nose of the first round would catch on the leather on the draw.

From an era before consistency was as big of a thing as it is now.

[JTQ]

If you look at the picture, with the way the belt loop comes between the magazines and snaps to the front of the pouch, if the second magazine were seated bullets forward, there is a pretty good chance that the nose of the first round would catch on the leather on the draw.

I always thought those "old school" double mag pouches were pretty cool, and I also thought catching the nose of the top bullet from the rear mag on that strap would be an issue. I brought the question up with either a long time user of that style, or a holster maker specializing in the design (I think it was the Alessi design, which admittedly is a little different) on a forum a while back and I was told my concerns were unfounded. I agree with you though, it does seem as if that would be an issue.

[Wondering Beard]

If you look at the picture, with the way the belt loop comes between the magazines and snaps to the front of the pouch, if the second magazine were seated bullets forward, there is a pretty good chance that the nose of the first round would catch on the leather on the draw.

From an era before consistency was as big of a thing as it is now.

I have an old Milt Sparks mag pouch exactly like that for 1911 mags and I have put both mags in with the bullets facing forward and have not had any problems. It's not as easy (but far from hard) to put the second mag in with bullets forward but that's it.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I always thought those "old school" double mag pouches were pretty cool, and I also thought catching the nose of the top bullet from the rear mag on that strap would be an issue. I brought the question up with either a long time user of that style, or a holster maker specializing in the design (I think it was the Alessi design, which admittedly is a little different) on a forum a while back and I was told my concerns were unfounded. I agree with you though, it does seem as if that would be an issue.


I have an old Milt Sparks mag pouch exactly like that for 1911 mags and I have put both mags in with the bullets facing forward and have not had any problems. It's not as easy (but far from hard) to put the second mag in with bullets forward but that's it.


Chalk it up to, "That's the way things were done back then." :cool:

[JAD]

For guys who cut their teeth on 1911s, they will get this gun.
:
If you find yourself needing to finance another tikka, I will take that off your hands. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160816/04e194976ee74b46a34a522bbca56e84.jpg

I like old LWCs.

[StraitR]

Mmmm. Love that Morrision LWC.

[Lost River]

If you find yourself needing to finance another tikka, I will take that off your hands. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160816/04e194976ee74b46a34a522bbca56e84.jpg

I like old LWCs.

Thanks for the offer.

I do need to thin the herd a bit to finance some things, but this particular LWC is going to stay a while I believe. :)

[JAD]

I do need to thin the herd a bit to finance some things, but this particular LWC is going to stay a while I believe. :)

At least until that bad ass daughter of yours gets hold of it. I can think of worse CCWs in college.

[docwatson]

Here is the story, on the "Old School" double mag pouches, again one of Bruce Nelson's design, if you notice with the mags facing in opposite directions, the pouch is more compact, remember Bruce, was a undercover Narcotics Officer and was concerned about concealment as well as function. An added benefit, the back mag is a reminder that you are down to your last mag. Trainer Rob Pincus, actually prefers the bullet noses pointing back, instead of front, he demonstrated it to me at a class, stating it was more efficient. However, he also stated if you are used to the bullet noses pointing forward, carry on.

[Trooper224]

Trainer Rob Pincus, actually prefers ..........

That puts it on my list of "things not to do".

[Hambo]

For guys who cut their teeth on 1911s, they will get this gun.

It is sort of an ode to old school with some newer improvements added.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Handguns/P1010624_zps5h9bvxep.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Handguns/P1010624_zps5h9bvxep.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Handguns/P1010623_zpsrzvcxbrw.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Handguns/P1010623_zpsrzvcxbrw.jpg.html)


S&W revolver sights...nice.

[Greg]

All this 1911 jibber jabber made me do some upgrades on a Springfield GI version that wasn't getting much trigger time.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8-NxNfcRMr3mAU4MnnUYf_tf__pHh6W9ZAzbpwGj-j8evgn7F5ywEnUDnpD-AOJXSAUkrgJpELFy8QHaOory_4QLlvN04aU9Rjz_RXd-d4icfB4nJnS2mHrcnAcdWRDfnHPYqXvIdLhUFDI7mkPROxdaHt 67RijW0mhO8oLUPbjMX-ZibupISa-wtAUdjls7lAyxLgEBgr9Wa0hjhqjH5AMigFiNiZNga_mCOvuJ6 bQ5qjnRQM3My5P7t-rI4FhviggOCFJ8sFb9E8zU6w6SRKgBCNJsguiOBwPqRrLtf6jO Liylb23VL8CNox9TAb6j8nT9KpDtisovkGKoncMjTCsYJIlACd kRDU-DNx69RthKb4FP0CDEU2B0E3Vp2c4mBXgfjp25r3H0BPX9M6Wwn 2dkCZOJ5qhU88H3HonVSaE16GwtrqisX1hwV9HiE8sUdiRuqcw wTHBxPxlHSxnuKXEYcgafdJrJx237rudYpODYbfNPyHlQwIjYB l1BtDA_1bYiMe-NLqs8gx5PQctN37vWmCIIBac0agkD-iz97cYr9JedWo_kmGe0mW_ftz4MSIyLnc5U_se-Par4D1gm8Yk_jUUYIVA=w800-h751-no

Ed Brown match barrel.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4DzSrSTaJkl3rJdO7w0JW9G3UcIPuQSiefY6FHprg1nCjpQSY NKjEb0EPdYFCHNhQpNUzRLPKRSNGjbKrukDPsqrS8KFKB_VYQe fkXYDOl6RTtiTEvLEDNqbZBIFuSIMcWA35SGnvdY5-yCnVcCaGic_rgAPJaQFhWznPMxXdvvm3Bb72mVN2fumbebuPxC VSULura6Y99rp6h1Ta-Q8836GLBjCTIFiuJuSpzLIGDkGaAEL7mArcuKImuJ06NrWEMyT bNq24TdwfijthX1fItASoHd988kNoThSwneAVworYhwrfMYGho SuvhHgD25VrBnokYm8mOoZTDB7T_QO0GfNlv4CR7DHFerd2srq a7NtayQOkoEUAZlv5h9F62UnSNsK9Ivl8-OJaKd5ROlqSfRYSZw-Od2IuY_KRYOlFlariik6YkevQmhUWMq38wWwiQiDQMcKVzywpP ebaZo3gtTzcuCTpgsmoU4fvU2dtaev68TdsevRWqMApE25QLeY pYgXQgVY2gxQd2LorfqPHGn1H8p8uwm9Dg94jG5arMDflRlCNp 3oqwMxpsqt-2cU_c83CzboKLThMldo8lcK2BQaju8r-c=w1000-h697-no

S&A Beavertail, King's thumb safety, Videki trigger, 10-8 rear sight.

Need to test and tweak it and then find a place to re-parkerize it. I like polymer for carry purposes but steel 1911s are a hell of a lot more fun to play with.

[StraitR]

^^^^^ Nice!

All this 1911 jibber jabber made me do this. Of course, I'll be selling off about six guns to pay for it, but I bought them all searching for the perfect gun anyway, so YOLO.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8590/29056205985_3a3ac72248_c.jpg

https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8066/28979673981_143cf58fcf_c.jpg


Three pull average...

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8320/28979683111_2797ab4c5d_c.jpg

[Greg]

I dig the darker slide above the grey frame and controls. Muy Bueno!

Memo to Self: Buy a Commander sized 1911.

[60Driver]

Never really got over them in the first place. Go to war gun is now a MK25 for all the logical reasons, but my heart is still with the 1911. Never felt under-gunned carrying one, and like many, still shoot it better than anything else. Perhaps my favorite, Drake Oldham build in early LAV class. Tam has shot it, and I believe she approves...even though the grip screws are not timed.

9943

[JohnK]

^^^^^ Nice!

All this 1911 jibber jabber made me do this. Of course, I'll be selling off about six guns to pay for it, but I bought them all searching for the perfect gun anyway, so YOLO.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8590/29056205985_3a3ac72248_c.jpg

https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8066/28979673981_143cf58fcf_c.jpg


Three pull average...

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8320/28979683111_2797ab4c5d_c.jpg

Hot damn that is one sexy looking gun. You guys are making it extremely difficult to continue on with my P30.

[Guinnessman]

Hot damn that is one sexy looking gun. You guys are making it extremely difficult to continue on with my P30.

Wilson and HK's do just fine living in harmony together in the safe. Just sayin..........:cool:

[Tango]

A man who is about action not words. Way to score the Wilson Combat. If work would put this on the approved list, I would buy it, carry it, shoot the heck out of it and never need another one.9954

[JohnK]

Wilson and HK's do just fine living in harmony together in the safe. Just sayin..........:cool:

Oh I know, I have a CQB that keeps my P30 company!

[StraitR]

Oh I know, I have a CQB that keeps my P30 company!

Rather than collect dust in my safe, my P30, VP9, and support gear are about to be sacrificed to help fund the Wilson.

I'm on the lookout for a project/tinkering Colt or SA. Who has experience with extractor tuning tools? What do you have and what do you like?

[45dotACP]

Rather than collect dust in my safe, my P30, VP9, and support gear are about to be sacrificed to help fund the Wilson.

I'm on the lookout for a project/tinkering Colt or SA. Who has experience with extractor tuning tools? What do you have and what do you like?

I like the way you think....

I like Weigand's tools. I use his extractor tension gauge a lot...but after a certain amount of time it becomes useless because the brass is soft enough to wear down and won't give accurate readings any more. I mostly just use it to "set and forget" extractor tension, but I might replace them after 6 months or so if you're using them constantly but you shouldn't be. The concept is that the end of the gauge is the same width as the brass case head and you put the slide in a vise, slide the gauge under the extractor and pull it with a trigger pull scale and measure the tension required to pull the case free. That gives you a measurement of how much tension you have so you can adjust. I stay on the lighter side, but if your gun passes the 10-8 function test it's a fairly good indicator it will continue to feed and eject correctly.

That said, on a quality 1911, I have never seen an extractor lose tension, and while I don't shoot as much as some, I'd say I've put probably nearasdammit 20,000 rounds through my Caspian over the past 3 years it's been alive, all with the same extractor.

I have the Weigand extractor tension jig...I don't like it though. You can bend the extractor then check the tension and I get more accurate readings that way. I'm not an expert who fits multiple extractors daily, but I just don't use it.

Some people make their own gauges by punching a pair of holes in the bottom of a piece of brass just above the case bevel and threading a piece of dental floss through it...I've never done it and just consider the weigand gauges to be a semi-disposable item that I measure before building (or buying, but I've built more 1911s than I've bought) a gun and if it seems about the same width as the case head of the caliber I use then I drive on...if not, I buy another and chuck the old one in the trash.

[JohnK]

Rather than collect dust in my safe, my P30, VP9, and support gear are about to be sacrificed to help fund the Wilson.

I'm on the lookout for a project/tinkering Colt or SA. Who has experience with extractor tuning tools? What do you have and what do you like?

Why did you jump ship from the P30 so soon??

[Trooper224]

I've never has a 1911 that didn't need a new extractor sooner or later, but I tend to buy'em and die'em. I'll echo everything 45dotACP said on the tools. Honestly, I've had great luck over the years with the bend by hand, fit and test method and don't always use adjustment tools. The least round count I've gotten from an extractor was 5K, the most was 50K, so mileage varies.

[StraitR]

Why did you jump ship from the P30 so soon??

John, I loved everything about the P30, except I could not physically run the LEM. It was a lot of trigger work (long take up, long reset, rinse, repeat) for a trigger finger that has had two tendons repaired and in need of another surgery too clean up scar tissue. 15 minutes of Todd's dry fire routine would put me out for a week or more. DA/SA pizza triggers are even worse, and I sold off my 92A1 because of it, but I can't bring myself to sell my Brig Tac. At this point, shorter and lighter triggers work best for me physically. Glocks and VP9 are fine, but I'm trying to move away from SFA AIWB carry.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3749/13593253665_3018f6be9b.jpg

[Tango]

A great way to heal up. A WC 1911 and some 45ACP!

[SecondsCount]

I've never has a 1911 that didn't need a new extractor sooner or later, but I tend to buy'em and die'em. I'll echo everything 45dotACP said on the tools. Honestly, I've had great luck over the years with the bend by hand, fit and test method and don't always use adjustment tools. The least round count I've gotten from an extractor was 5K, the most was 50K, so mileage varies.

I have done this a few times and it worked for me. I have owned quite a few 1911's over the years and never had an extractor issue. The two guns that I ran hard were a Pre-II Kimber Target and a Les Baer Concept 8. Both have over 20K rounds and have the original extractor. The only ones that I tuned were on guns that I built or repaired for friends.

[Trooper224]

Concerning extractors: I find the hook and notch geometry to be a more common issue than tension.

[Wobblie]

I've shot 10s of thousands of rounds through 1911s and never had an extractor problem. Am I missing something?

[1986s4]

So I'm thinking that a spare extractor is a good idea? Who makes a good one for a series 80 Colt [.38 Super Auto]?

[StraitR]

So I'm thinking that a spare extractor is a good idea? Who makes a good one for a series 80 Colt [.38 Super Auto]?

Wilson Combat... http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Extractor-80-Series-38-Super_9mm-Bullet-Proof-Blue/productinfo/415%2DS80/

[Trooper224]

+1 on the Wilson Bullet Proof extractor. The hook and notch geometry is typically good and they're usually quicker to fit than some.

[farscott]

Wilson and EGW are my go-to choices for extractors.

[M2CattleCo]

Colt extractors aren't bad either. I used to just drop 'em in and function check. Very rarely if ever needed any tuning. I remember taking a series 80 extractor and testing in a Colt and three Springfield Customs and it functioned perfectly in all four pistols with no adjustment.

[45dotACP]

I've used Ed Brown exclusively and without issue for .45s, but my recommendation after seeing what some of the best 1911 smiths out there use would be EGW and Wilson Combat.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Rex G]

Nyeti/Dagga Boy, that is a beautiful 1911. Polymer is a passing fad. ;)

After swearing-off shorter-barreled 1911 pistols in 1991, and staying with Government-sized pistols, I am again looking at Commander-length weapons, if I can find one I can trust. The Officer's ACP-sized frame is certainly an appealing option, now that I am nearing retirement.

My outgoing chief, when he retired, recently restored the 1911 to the list of approved duty pistols, the only single-action pistol on the very short list of approved primary duty weapons. He had carried his grandathered 1911 until he retired. I had let my grandfathered 1911 pistols lapse in 2002, because the then-mandated Safariand 070 duty holster did not allow me to obtain a consistent grip at the outset of the draw. Well, this year, after attending the transition/certification training, I can again carry a 1911 as a "primary duty" weapon. The now-standard Safariland 6360 does allow me to start the draw with a proper grip. I have yet to carry my LBC TRS on my duty belt, because my right shoulder is not so flexible anymore, so I would need a shorter-barreled 1911. (My rear end is too un-padded to allow an optional longer holster shank to be workable.)

I see the 1911 as an offensive pistol, a proactive pistol, as opposed to a defensive/reactive pistol. My polymer G17 and G19 pistols are wonderful for duty and defense, but there is nothing like a 1911 for taking the fight to an enemy. Now that my 1911 is again at "primary duty" status, I can again be within policy if I decide to opt for the 1911 in a special situation, leaving my G17 in the duty holster, relegating the G17 to "back-up" status. A Safepacker, from The Wilderness, secured by a seat belt, is a good way to organize my DMP; Designated Marksman Pistol. :)

[Tango]

I've always liked the quote, "I like to carry a Glock and fight with a 1911". If the 1911 was on approved carry list, I would make the transition from the G17.

[MistWolf]

I see the 1911 as an offensive pistol, a proactive pistol...there is nothing like a 1911 for taking the fight to an enemy

I approve of this statement- but I have no clue why. Why is the 1911 a better for taking the fight to the enemy than any other duty handgun?

[Robinson]

I don't see myself taking an offensive action with a firearm except under the most extreme circumstances, but if I did I would want a long gun not a pistol -- even a 1911. I still think of handguns as defensive weapons. Yes there may be some situations where a person armed with only a handgun has to "take the fight to the enemy" but the parameters for that are pretty narrow I think. And in that case the man or woman's will to fight and survive will be more a determining factor than the type of handgun being used.

Or, I may just be missing the point you folks are making. I carry a 1911.

[JohnK]

I don't see myself taking an offensive action with a firearm except under the most extreme circumstances, but if I did I would want a long gun not a pistol -- even a 1911. I still think of handguns as defensive weapons. Yes there may be some situations where a person armed with only a handgun has to "take the fight to the enemy" but the parameters for that are pretty narrow I think. And in that case the man or woman's will to fight and survive will be more a determining factor than the type of handgun being used.

Or, I may just be missing the point you folks are making. I carry a 1911.

Maybe the comparison is similar to that of the HK MK23? If I am not mistaken, that is considered an offensive-type weapon even though it is a pistol. I mean, it should be shoulder-fired for how big that thing is, but I digress ;)

[Wobblie]

Maybe the comparison is similar to that of the HK MK23? If I am not mistaken, that is considered an offensive-type weapon even though it is a pistol. I mean, it should be shoulder-fired for how big that thing is, but I digress ;)

I had one for a time. It was offensive so I got rid of it.

[Rex G]

I approve of this statement- but I have no clue why. Why is the 1911 a better for taking the fight to the enemy than any other duty handgun?

Well, to be clear, that was intended to apply to me, personally, because I can, with dedicated training, perform well with a 1911, relative to other other auto-pistols, especially with accuracy over a longer distance. I am actually a bit better, under stress, with a good medium/large revolver, and retain my skill level better with the revolver, but, well, six rounds, and longer reload times, is not ideal for taking the fight forward.

No matter how much I train with my Glocks, I do not see myself ever being more accurate with a Glock than a 1911. Training with Glocks helps me shoot a 1911 better.

Another thing: I want to feel checkered steel. I want to feel the heft of steel. Yes, these are psychological factors, but much of shooting accurately is, indeed, psychological.

This should not be taken to mean I would shirk my duty, if all I had was a polymer-framed pistol with a mushy trigger. My Glocks are "good enough for government work," and much of my personal-time carry, as well. I would rather, however, that destiny call my name when I can get my hands on a 1911, for which the Glock can serve as back-up. Of course, this assumes I cannot lay my hands on a long gun. My co-workers know me well for taking my shotgun for walks at night. (I can deploy my shotgun at my discretion, whereas specific circumstances have to exist for us to deploy a patrol carbine.)

Notably, for a number of years, my only remaining 1911 was usually dormant, in the safe. It was setting aside my P229R duty pistol, due to snappy .40 recoil, and the high bore axis, causing distress to my aging, ailing wrist, that caused me to switch to 9mm, in Glocks, for duty and personal carry, that prompted my return to regular use of the 1911. Had my .40 SIGs remained tolerable to shoot, my 1911 might still be spending most of its time in the safe.

This brings up the one aspect of steel that is not psychological; steel's mass damps recoil, and the low bore axis of the 1911 helps reduce the mechanical-leverage part of muzzle flip. I can see myself ordering a Les Baer Monolith, for training and fun shooting, if not for carry.

I apologize for this long-winded write-up. I like to edit heavily, before submitting a reply, but have run out of time.

[mmc45414]

For guys who cut their teeth on 1911s, they will get this gun.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Handguns/P1010625_zpsvd6dpfwy.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Handguns/P1010625_zpsvd6dpfwy.jpg.html)


Could be a twin to the pistol I was shooting in the avatar. Once the front screw was upgraded to the #6 screw in the front the sight stayed on.

Mine was not lightweight, I sold it to get a 5" gun. Was young and broke, too young to know what regret would be someday. Sold it to a friend at work who I recently saw at our former boss's funeral and asked about it. He had lost track of it in a divorce pissing contest. He said he knew I was gonna ask him about it... :)

[LSP552]

I approve of this statement- but I have no clue why. Why is the 1911 a better for taking the fight to the enemy than any other duty handgun?

Many people, including me, feel that no other handgun is as easy to hit with under stress. The 1911 trigger and ergonomics are perfect in that regard, IMO. The are heavy and don't carry a lot of BBs, but the pistol allows you to place those BBs pretty precisely under stress. At the end of the day, that's generally what it's about.

[spinmove_]

Many people, including me, feel that no other handgun is as easy to hit with under stress. The 1911 trigger and ergonomics are perfect in that regard, IMO. The are heavy and don't carry a lot of BBs, but the pistol allows you to place those BBs pretty precisely under stress. At the end of the day, that's generally what it's about.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here, but wouldn't the evolution of running a pistol that is ergonomic with a crisp SA trigger yet is lighter and carries more BBs be a CZ P07 or P09 that's cajunized with the safety installed? Sure it's probably not going to have a SA trigger that's EXACTLY like a 1911, but you can still carry it cocked and locked with the trigger worked over and crisp and it would be lighter while carrying 16-20 Euro-pellets on tap...

[Robinson]

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here, but wouldn't the evolution of running a pistol that is ergonomic with a crisp SA trigger yet is lighter and carries more BBs be a CZ P07 or P09 that's cajunized with the safety installed? Sure it's probably not going to have a SA trigger that's EXACTLY like a 1911, but you can still carry it cocked and locked with the trigger worked over and crisp and it would be lighter while carrying 16-20 Euro-pellets on tap...

I don't know enough about the P07/P09 safety to judge, but it also somewhat depends on the position of the thumb safety. I remember the thumb safety on a CZ 72B was a no-go for me because of the positioning. But it was a double action pistol so probably not the right gun to compare.

[HCM]

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here, but wouldn't the evolution of running a pistol that is ergonomic with a crisp SA trigger yet is lighter and carries more BBs be a CZ P07 or P09 that's cajunized with the safety installed? Sure it's probably not going to have a SA trigger that's EXACTLY like a 1911, but you can still carry it cocked and locked with the trigger worked over and crisp and it would be lighter while carrying 16-20 Euro-pellets on tap...

The P07/P09 are fine guns but 1) the safety is not nearly as ergonomic as a 1911 and 2) what makes the 1911 trigger so easy to shoot well is not just the weight and short pull but the fact it is in a track and less subject to lateral errors vs. pivoting trigger.

[spinmove_]

The P07/P09 are fine guns but 1) the safety is not nearly as ergonomic as a 1911 and 2) what makes the 1911 trigger so easy to shoot well is not just the weight and short pull but the fact it is in a track and less subject to lateral errors vs. pivoting trigger.

As easy as it is to swap out the safety for the de-cocker, I would imagine coming up with a better designed safety wouldn't be too difficult. Kinda hard to change the fundamental design of the trigger though. Granted the 1911 trigger would be optimal, I can't see how a light, crisp, and short SA trigger in the P07/P09 would be that much worse.

[Wondering Beard]

what makes the 1911 trigger so easy to shoot well is not just the weight and short pull but the fact it is in a track and less subject to lateral errors vs. pivoting trigger.

That's the one.

I can't think of any other trigger system that is so perfectly set for a natural easy straight back press.

[StraitR]

The P07/P09 are fine guns but 1) the safety is not nearly as ergonomic as a 1911 and 2) what makes the 1911 trigger so easy to shoot well is not just the weight and short pull but the fact it is in a track and less subject to lateral errors vs. pivoting trigger.

Agreed. Additionally, gun weight vs trigger weight also makes a difference. A 3.5 pound gun with a 3.5 pound trigger will be much easier to shoot than a 2 pound gun with 5.5 pound trigger, regardless of trigger/action type. As a side note, in addition to more control/contact points, gun weight > trigger weight is another reason why shooting long guns is easier than handguns.

Nobody likes to carry "heavy" handguns, but everyone seems to enjoy shooting them.

[Jay Cunningham]

Hmm... I wonder.

Seriously, it's an interesting question.

Either trigger is only capable of rearward movement.

[rob_s]

I love 1911s. Had a Wilson, a Yost/Bonitz, and a Baer, plus a couple of Kimbers (pre-MIM or whatever). Carried a 5" steel 1911 in a VMII for a long time.

My issue is the cost involved in stocking up the way I'd like to. I want a carry gun, a car gun, an office gun, a bedroom gun, a competition gun, a training gun, and a super-secret carry gun. I can do that by either buying 5 G19s at $500/ea, a G34 at $600, and a G43 at $450, or I can multiply 7x[1911 prices], and I just don't love the 1911 quite that much.

I still toy with the idea of shooting single-stack in competition, and maybe that G34 will turn itself into a Colt Competition, but I wish they'd just charge another $200 for the gun and make it less wrong.

[StraitR]

I love 1911s. Had a Wilson, a Yost/Bonitz, and a Baer, plus a couple of Kimbers (pre-MIM or whatever). Carried a 5" steel 1911 in a VMII for a long time.

My issue is the cost involved in stocking up the way I'd like to. I want a carry gun, a car gun, an office gun, a bedroom gun, a competition gun, a training gun, and a super-secret carry gun. I can do that by either buying 5 G19s at $500/ea, a G34 at $600, and a G43 at $450, or I can multiply 7x[1911 prices], and I just don't love the 1911 quite that much.

I still toy with the idea of shooting single-stack in competition, and maybe that G34 will turn itself into a Colt Competition, but I wish they'd just charge another $200 for the gun and make it less wrong.

I completely agree. IMO, cost is the biggest problem with dedicating oneself to 1911's.

[HCM]

Hmm... I wonder.

Seriously, it's an interesting question.

Either trigger is only capable of rearward movement.

Technically but one moves straight back via a track and the othe moves back via an arc.

[Jay Cunningham]

Technically but one moves straight back via a track and the othe moves back via an arc.

lol I get that

I'm wondering how much it actually matters to anything.

It seems *reasonable* to say that the sliding 1911 trigger allows a "cleaner" manipulation than a hinged trigger... but is it really true?

[Greg]

I'm so over 1911s I just ordered a new Colt for my B-Day :p

[HCM]

lol I get that

I'm wondering how much it actually matters to anything.

It seems *reasonable* to say that the sliding 1911 trigger allows a "cleaner" manipulation than a hinged trigger... but is it really true?

It matters to those of us (most of us) without perfect trigger finger form. It is, in some ways a "crutch".

It certainly doesn't preclude shooting well with a pivoting trigger.

[orionz06]

I approve of this statement- but I have no clue why. Why is the 1911 a better for taking the fight to the enemy than any other duty handgun?

Is that even the case?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Robinson]

Is that even the case?

To follow on from my previous post above, I think this is a case where "it's the Indian not the arrow".

[Malamute]

I love 1911s. Had a Wilson, a Yost/Bonitz, and a Baer, plus a couple of Kimbers (pre-MIM or whatever). Carried a 5" steel 1911 in a VMII for a long time.

My issue is the cost involved in stocking up the way I'd like to. I want a carry gun, a car gun, an office gun, a bedroom gun, a competition gun, a training gun, and a super-secret carry gun. I can do that by either buying 5 G19s at $500/ea, a G34 at $600, and a G43 at $450, or I can multiply 7x[1911 prices], and I just don't love the 1911 quite that much.

I still toy with the idea of shooting single-stack in competition, and maybe that G34 will turn itself into a Colt Competition, but I wish they'd just charge another $200 for the gun and make it less wrong.

I may have missed it in this thread or elsewhere, but,...is it really required to have a custom level 1911 for it to work reliably enough to carry? I ask this as someone that's never owned a custom level 1911, nor shot one. I understand the beauty of a well done work of mechanical art, but at what level can we really say is "enough" to trust carrying them? Ive had a couple of early 1911s (19-teens) a National Match made in the 60s, and a short Detonics. Those all seemed very functionally reliable, and the NM was scary accurate. One Springfield 191A1 I had somehow turned into a jam-o-matic that I was never able to get to run, but the other 1911s Ive had have been at a reliability level I was comfortable with. Maybe its different levels of reliability one is comfortable with, but does the custom level substantially change the reliability of a basic 1911 dramatically?

[Gary1911A1]

The P07/P09 are fine guns but 1) the safety is not nearly as ergonomic as a 1911 and 2) what makes the 1911 trigger so easy to shoot well is not just the weight and short pull but the fact it is in a track and less subject to lateral errors vs. pivoting trigger.
Yes! This is where the 1911 design has a significant advantage for me over other pistols to one degree or another. It just slides straight back. At speed I can't shoot any other pistol as well.

[Sawyer]

You don't have to go custom. Springfield MC/LB Operator, TRP, or Colt Rail Gun. Dan Wesson Valor/Specialist are getting close to custom cost but are very nice.

[rob_s]

I may have missed it in this thread or elsewhere, but,...is it really required to have a custom level 1911 for it to work reliably enough to carry? I ask this as someone that's never owned a custom level 1911, nor shot one. I understand the beauty of a well done work of mechanical art, but at what level can we really say is "enough" to trust carrying them? Ive had a couple of early 1911s (19-teens) a National Match made in the 60s, and a short Detonics. Those all seemed very functionally reliable, and the NM was scary accurate. One Springfield 191A1 I had somehow turned into a jam-o-matic that I was never able to get to run, but the other 1911s Ive had have been at a reliability level I was comfortable with. Maybe its different levels of reliability one is comfortable with, but does the custom level substantially change the reliability of a basic 1911 dramatically?

I think it's like a lot of things, it's not the odds it's the stakes? (or do I have that backwards, I get confused...)

point being, just like your Springfield experience, what are the chances you're going to get a FUBAR Springfield or Kimber vs. a Wilson or Nighhawk? or Heirloom Precision?

Everyone has that story of the one, or ten, 1911s they own(ed) that always ran, never had a problem, etc. But how representative is that?

The reason I tell people to buy a Colt AR isn't because no other maker *can* get it right, it's because Colt get's it right more often than anyone else.

And even at what I would consider the bottom-of-the-barrel for 1911s, you're still talking nearly 2x the cost of the Glocks, so it's not an insignificant cost, and with what as benefit to that cost? A slidey trigger?

[Malamute]

I think it's like a lot of things, it's not the odds it's the stakes? (or do I have that backwards, I get confused...)

point being, just like your Springfield experience, what are the chances you're going to get a FUBAR Springfield or Kimber vs. a Wilson or Nighhawk? or Heirloom Precision?

Everyone has that story of the one, or ten, 1911s they own(ed) that always ran, never had a problem, etc. But how representative is that?

The reason I tell people to buy a Colt AR isn't because no other maker *can* get it right, it's because Colt get's it right more often than anyone else.

And even at what I would consider the bottom-of-the-barrel for 1911s, you're still talking nearly 2x the cost of the Glocks, so it's not an insignificant cost, and with what as benefit to that cost? A slidey trigger?

I think I understand what youre getting at. I'm not a fan of various 1911 copies, and in general wouldnt consider buying anything other than a Colt for the general money involved (think Ive got about $500 in my 1914 gun). The ones Ive had that worked well were Colt GI guns and the Colt NM. The little Detonics being the only other make Ive shot much (successfully). I don't have a large pool of info to go on regarding various guns, or what people consider acceptable reliability. Trying to learn more about all this.

Its been a long time since I was shooting 1911s much, its mostly been lead bullet reloads, 230 gr RN, some 230 gr TC and the H&G 200 gr SWC. I seem to recall that Id get a failure to feed roughly every 1500 rds in general shooting. The RN bullets fed the best compared to the H&G bullets, but are pretty dismal in shooting live things. I used a mix of magazines, at the time I didn't know much about different magazines, and just used the ones I had. Factory Colts, a couple Wilsons (?), and a couple others of un-remembered heritage. I now understand magazines are better understood. None of it for me at the time was very systematic about which ones worked best, but I always carried the Colts in the gun and as carry spares.

[Sawyer]

I definitely agree that what Rob is saying has basis in fact but I think the gap between top tier production guns and their semi custom brethren had narrowed in recent years.its pretty rare to hear of problems with the guns I noted above.

[Robinson]

This has been discussed a lot in some other threads this year, but there are many different opinions about the reliability of 1911s. Some of this is due to the fact that so many companies make guns they label 1911s -- and not all of them are created equal.

Going with a high end custom or semi-custom gun might really increase the odds of having a gun that works off the bat. Or it might not. It should.

I've owned several makes of 1911s and have had good luck with all the ones I've owned except for one early on that was a full custom build. Now I own only Colts and I have a good level of confidence in my guns. I still feel .45ACP is the best caliber for reliable function in a 1911, but I have transitioned over to 9mm. Mostly my guns run great right out of the box -- but recently I had to send one back to Colt for servicing because it was not ejecting spent cases properly (possibly too heavy a recoil spring). And this was a brand new gun. Another Colt 9mm I bought the same day runs absolutely great with all ammunition and even the factory supplied magazines. I mostly use Wilson Combat mags for carry.

So I never assume a new gun I buy is good to go for carry or HD use until I shoot it a bunch with the types of ammo I need it to function properly with. But OVERALL I have confidence in non-customized Colt 1911s based on my own experience.

[45dotACP]

And even at what I would consider the bottom-of-the-barrel for 1911s, you're still talking nearly 2x the cost of the Glocks, so it's not an insignificant cost, and with what as benefit to that cost? A slidey trigger?

Well if you gotta ask you'll never get it :D

Bottom of the barrel for me is Springfield Mil-Spec, a bare bones Colt Series 80 or a Range Officer. I'm confident in my ability to get a 1911 running if need be....but neither of those guns is twice the price of a Glock.... unless a Glock is 350-400 bucks in your neck of the woods.

[LockedBreech]

For what it's worth, my $800 Colt Series 80 stainless Government has run 300 out of the box for me over two range trips. I haven't cleaned it yet. I don't use it as a carry or HD gun so out of sheer curiosity I'm seeing how long it'll go without being cared for. So far 300 for 300. Small round count, sample of one, etc., but there's it is. I'll update when it finally chokes on me.

I also should not have fretted so much about Series 70 trigger vs. Series 80 trigger. My O1091 has the best trigger of any gun I own except my Colt Python and is incredibly easy to shoot like an ace.

Since I'm sounding too much like a cheerleader (my XD Mod 2 is AWESOME guys), I'm sure once I pass beyond being an intermediate-level shooter with low-moderate round counts (quite low by this site's standards) I'll notice more nuanced triggers and want tighter groups at longer ranges, but as a purely average shooter the Series 80 bare-bones Colt trigger is very nice.

[JSGlock34]

I have no connection with this store, but this is about as low a price on a new Wilson Combat 1911 as I have seen. The color isn't really my thing though, but I suppose if you like the Colt M45A1 this is similar.

Shooter's Connection - Wilson Combat CQB .45 ACP Light-Rail, Tan (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Combat-CQB-45-ACP-Light-Rail-Tan-P3205.aspx)

http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Assets/ProductImages/CQBLR-FSR-45_Tan-1.jpg

[StraitR]

Shooters had those ^^^ guns (3 at the time) for $26something and two standard black CQB's for $2260 on their Labor Day Sale. If I hadn't just bought a WC the week before, I would have grabbed one of the CQB's. They went really fast (within the hour of getting the email).

[Guinnessman]

I purchased my CQB from Gunslingers two years ago, and it was a great experience. Not $2260 cheap, but his prices were very good to get a gun already in the build pipeline. I ordered my CQB in May and it arrived in August.

[JSGlock34]

Shooters had those ^^^ guns (3 at the time) for $26something and two standard black CQB's for $2260 on their Labor Day Sale. If I hadn't just bought a WC the week before, I would have grabbed one of the CQB's. They went really fast (within the hour of getting the email).

Black CQB is still $2665 (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Combat-CQB-45-ACP-P1695.aspx) - not as good a deal as the tan guns but still pretty decent. The Vickers Elite for $3250 (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Combat-Vickers-Elite-Gray-Black-45ACP-P3882.aspx)is another solid deal.

[StraitR]

Black CQB is still $2665 (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Combat-CQB-45-ACP-P1695.aspx) - not as good a deal as the tan guns but still pretty decent. The Vickers Elite for $3250 (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Combat-Vickers-Elite-Gray-Black-45ACP-P3882.aspx)is another solid deal.

Yup. Basically, both guns (Blk CQB/TAN Light Rail) were $400 and $500 less, respectively, for the Labor Day Sale. That's a huge discount on a WC pistol, and I've not seen it outside of Shooters. I purchased my Brig Tac from them.

[DHart]

Just when I think I'm mostly over 1911s, I open the safe and poke around the 1911 shelf and out comes something like this custom Colt Commander that Ned Christiansen did for me... then I think may be I'm not entirely over 1911s :confused:
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Colt%201911s/V2130019.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/Colt%201911s/V2130019.jpg.html)

[rob_s]

Well if you gotta ask you'll never get it :D

Bottom of the barrel for me is Springfield Mil-Spec, a bare bones Colt Series 80 or a Range Officer. I'm confident in my ability to get a 1911 running if need be....but neither of those guns is twice the price of a Glock.... unless a Glock is 350-400 bucks in your neck of the woods.

I wouldn't bother with any of those guns. All would, for me and I bet most shooters, require some level of fiddle-fart. And fiddle-fart = money unless your employer just sitting around doing nothing all day.

And I'd take a used G19 at $400 over a brand new bare-bones "milspec" 1911 all day every day.

[Wobblie]

I wouldn't bother with any of those guns. All would, for me and I bet most shooters, require some level of fiddle-fart. And fiddle-fart = money unless your employer just sitting around doing nothing all day.

And I'd take a used G19 at $400 over a brand new bare-bones "milspec" 1911 all day every day.

I can drive my daughter's KIA too, but I don't derive any pleasure from it.

[spinmove_]

I can drive my daughter's KIA too, but I don't derive any pleasure from it.

This is rob_s. Unless it's a generic face shooting tool with boring reliability, you're doing it wrong...

:P

[Malamute]

I think it's like a lot of things, it's not the odds it's the stakes? (or do I have that backwards, I get confused...)

point being, just like your Springfield experience, what are the chances you're going to get a FUBAR Springfield or Kimber vs. a Wilson or Nighhawk? or Heirloom Precision?

Everyone has that story of the one, or ten, 1911s they own(ed) that always ran, never had a problem, etc. But how representative is that?

The reason I tell people to buy a Colt AR isn't because no other maker *can* get it right, it's because Colt get's it right more often than anyone else.

And even at what I would consider the bottom-of-the-barrel for 1911s, you're still talking nearly 2x the cost of the Glocks, so it's not an insignificant cost, and with what as benefit to that cost? A slidey trigger?


Distilled down to the very basis of the question, I have a Colt made in 1914. That's the gun I'm asking about as a baseline comparison for reliability compared to custom level guns and comparative reliability, or what level it takes to achieve an acceptable level of perceived reliability. Its unlikely I'd buy another one (unless I could buy back my old National Match), and any other brand is entirely off my radar for any reason.

In some discussions here, the older Colts were specifically mentioned as good examples of "properly built" (recalling from memory), though it seemed that they were disregarded as being practical shooters because of age. Mine has about zero collectability. Its a shooter. Just curious how it fits into the perceived reliability paradigm.

[Robinson]

Distilled down to the very basis of the question, I have a Colt made in 1914. That's the gun I'm asking about as a baseline comparison for reliability compared to custom level guns and comparative reliability, or what level it takes to achieve an acceptable level of perceived reliability. Its unlikely I'd buy another one (unless I could buy back my old National Match), and any other brand is entirely off my radar for any reason.

In some discussions here, the older Colts were specifically mentioned as good examples of "properly built" (recalling from memory), though it seemed that they were disregarded as being practical shooters because of age. Mine has about zero collectability. Its a shooter. Just curious how it fits into the perceived reliability paradigm.

In theory a 1911 made in the last couple decades should be more reliable than an original GI 1911, especially over a high round count. More consistent manufacturing processes, better materials, etc... However, the GI guns were built to a consistent specification and were probably very capable of meeting the military requirement -- especially with ball ammunition. I would have a high degree of confidence in a GI 1911 working if drawn from a holster in a time of need, but I have no idea how the same gun would fare in a high round count training class for example. Today's custom builder can craft guns with good reliability, accuracy, and the desired feature set. Non-custom builders might make concessions to accuracy or the feature set that compromise reliability.

Modern Colt is known for using good materials, good barrels, and building guns according to the specification. But still it seems a few guns slip through the manufacturing process that need a little work.

[Malamute]

Thanks.

This particular gun didn't look like the frame or slide had serious wear where they met in recoil. It was a project when I got it, the finish had apparently been bad. It had evidence of pitting on the side of the slide, but had been pretty well hand polished to clean it up. It was in the white, with a different unmarked chrome bore barrel, but mostly intact with all early type parts (one piece trigger and bow, tiny sights, checkered levers and long trigger etc), evidently it hadn't ever been updated to A1 configuration. It made me wonder if it may have left active military service sometime way long ago and never shot all that much. I found a factory Colt barrel, had a dovetail front sight installed, had it blued, and have just been shooting it some. It manages to ding the 300 yard plate if I try real hard. Also found an old Colt 22 conversion kit for it, which is probably what will be shot the most round count wise for practice. So far, with the fairly limited shooting Ive done (6-800 rds), its functioned except for an aftermarket 10 rd mag.

[SLG]

lol I get that

I'm wondering how much it actually matters to anything.

It seems *reasonable* to say that the sliding 1911 trigger allows a "cleaner" manipulation than a hinged trigger... but is it really true?

I have not found it to be true, for me. Others obviously disagree.

[SLG]

Thanks.

This particular gun didn't look like the frame or slide had serious wear where they met in recoil. It was a project when I got it, the finish had apparently been bad. It had evidence of pitting on the side of the slide, but had been pretty well hand polished to clean it up. It was in the white, with a different unmarked chrome bore barrel, but mostly intact with all early type parts (one piece trigger and bow, tiny sights, checkered levers and long trigger etc), evidently it hadn't ever been updated to A1 configuration. It made me wonder if it may have left active military service sometime way long ago and never shot all that much. I found a factory Colt barrel, had a dovetail front sight installed, had it blued, and have just been shooting it some. It manages to ding the 300 yard plate if I try real hard. Also found an old Colt 22 conversion kit for it, which is probably what will be shot the most round count wise for practice. So far, with the fairly limited shooting Ive done (6-800 rds), its functioned except for an aftermarket 10 rd mag.

I think the biggest issue is not how reliable your 1914 is compared to todays guns, but what ammo you will shoot through them, and how often you want to stop for PM.

[Malamute]

What type or level of PM would be advisable?

Edit: I put new standard weight springs in it when I got it.

I haven't worked with any modern loads in it so far. I haven't shot much of anything the past couple years due to injury, but hope I can get back to it some.

[SLG]

What type or level of PM would be advisable?

Edit: I put new standard weight springs in it when I got it.

I haven't worked with any modern loads in it so far. I haven't shot much of anything the past couple years due to injury, but hope I can get back to it some.

I'm not the guy to ask about caring for old guns:-(

You obviously know what you're doing with them, I would just take it easy on the old girl. New springs every 2000 rds for sure, cleaning when you think it needs it, but lubing every 300 or so, depending on what you are seeing. I'd be surprised if she does too well with modern hollowpoints, but I've been surprised before.

Please let us know. I kind of view them like my 2nd model HE. Cool to shoot a few rds at a time through, but not the gun to go spend a day training with.

[Robinson]

I'm not the guy to ask about caring for old guns:-(

You obviously know what you're doing with them, I would just take it easy on the old girl. New springs every 2000 rds for sure, cleaning when you think it needs it, but lubing every 300 or so, depending on what you are seeing. I'd be surprised if she does too well with modern hollowpoints, but I've been surprised before.

Please let us know. I kind of view them like my 2nd model HE. Cool to shoot a few rds at a time through, but not the gun to go spend a day training with.

I concur with this 100%. The steel in that good old gun is probably not as strong as the steel in a modern pistol. Plus holler points were not a thing when it was built.

[Malamute]

I'm not wanting to push it with hot loads, though a couple thoughts come to mind. The barrel/frame ramp is pretty much identical to a modern Colt 1911 isn't it? (The barrel is from a newer gun I believe also). Ive seen it mentioned that earlier guns weren't as hardened in the slides, though the guy that cut the dovetail for the front sight said it was one of the hardest slides hes machined. Odd.

In any event, its been a fun gun to get running again, and fun to shoot. At the moment, its also all I can afford, as I already have it.

I had a 1917 made Colt in the past. I sold it thinking it shouldn't be shot and used up. I regret selling it, realizing somebody else is just going to shoot it and use it up. If anyones going to use it up, why not me? This 1914 gun will stay for the duration.

Thanks for the comments guys.

[SteveB]

Distilled down to the very basis of the question, I have a Colt made in 1914. That's the gun I'm asking about as a baseline comparison for reliability compared to custom level guns and comparative reliability, or what level it takes to achieve an acceptable level of perceived reliability. Its unlikely I'd buy another one (unless I could buy back my old National Match), and any other brand is entirely off my radar for any reason.

In some discussions here, the older Colts were specifically mentioned as good examples of "properly built" (recalling from memory), though it seemed that they were disregarded as being practical shooters because of age. Mine has about zero collectability. Its a shooter. Just curious how it fits into the perceived reliability paradigm.

There's a lot to talk about here. Most of the custom work I've had done on Colt 1911 .45's has been about improving the user interface (removing sharp edges, improvements to sights, trigger, safeties, etc.). Most of these guns run just fine in the original configuration, that is, steel 5" guns in .45 ACP (or .38 Super) with the original, non-ramped, barrel design. Reliability problems start to occur with significant deviations from the original specs; shorter slides/barrels, ramped barrels, alloy frames, different calibers. This is not to say that these differently-configured guns can't be made to run reliably, it's just that each added variable does not improve reliability. I've had expensive pistols from famous semi-production gunmakers that did not run properly out of the box, but I'd be surprised if a significant number of new Colt 1911 .45 steel Government Models had reliability issues with ball or well-designed hollowpoints. Anyway, regarding your 1914 pistol, with new springs and magazine I would expect it to run reliably with ball, but I would not view it as a high-volume shooter. Colt did not start heat treating slides to improve hardness until the 1930's, and they did that for a reason. Modern Colt pistols have steel that is superior to the old guns, even to the WWII-era guns. This is a question, again, of durabilty, not reliability.

[rob_s]

This is rob_s. Unless it's a generic face shooting tool with boring reliability, you're doing it wrong...

:P

Sort of.

I enjoy guns. I think they are fun. I also think they are tools for purposes, not objects to be adored or collected. I do tend to point out when people can't seem to see how blurred they've made the line between the two.

to the point of the antique 1911, I can't really speak to the "perceived reliability" issue. What I'm talking about is walking in to the gun shop today and buying a brand new Glock and a brand new Springfield 1911, and the likelihood of one running vs. the other. The variable that has to be adjusted, in my experience, to increase the potential for reliability in the 1911 is cost.

[orionz06]

Sort of.

I enjoy guns. I think they are fun. I also think they are tools for purposes, not objects to be adored or collected. I do tend to point out when people can't seem to see how blurred they've made the line between the two.

But tools of all kinds are adored and collected and used differently than you choose to use them. Hell, just in this forum alone we have woodworking tools, skillets, guns, bikes, cars, and knives. Somewhere along the way folks are serious end users, collectors, hobbyists, and newbs. Not caring about what someone else does is just fine.





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[spinmove_]

Sort of.

I enjoy guns. I think they are fun. I also think they are tools for purposes, not objects to be adored or collected. I do tend to point out when people can't seem to see how blurred they've made the line between the two.

to the point of the antique 1911, I can't really speak to the "perceived reliability" issue. What I'm talking about is walking in to the gun shop today and buying a brand new Glock and a brand new Springfield 1911, and the likelihood of one running vs. the other. The variable that has to be adjusted, in my experience, to increase the potential for reliability in the 1911 is cost.

And, in general, I would agree with you. Running a Glock for defensive use is way easier and more cost effective than just about any 1911. That doesn't necessarily mean that people with the means and/or know how shouldn't choose a 1911 over a Glock. Is the Glock a wiser and more fiscally responsible choice? Of course. But just because that is so doesn't necessarily mean everyone will make that choice. It's the same reason why people choose to daily drive/commute in Camaros, full-size pickups, or Maseratis. Is it the wisest decision? No. But in their eyes life is too short to drive a boring car. In some people's eyes, why carry a plain old boring hunk of plastic and squared off black metal when you can pack a sleek, svelte, and super easy to shoot 1911?

I watch Yankee Marshall YouTube videos for the chuckles and to oogle some pretty guns. But if I had your attitude towards his decisions I would have been banned from his channel for flaming his recent decision to run a S&W 586 L-comp blued revolver that he just installed XS Big Dots on for his preferred "winter carry" gat that he hasn't properly vetted yet and is complaining how the finish on the barrel doesn't quite match up with the finish on the frame.

Yeah, sometimes people blur those lines and there are times when they need a reality check. Other times, however, people are just being gun people and they simply desire something other than just a purely functional tool.

[rob_s]

But tools of all kinds are adored and collected and used differently than you choose to use them. Hell, just in this forum alone we have woodworking tools, skillets, guns, bikes, cars, and knives. Somewhere along the way folks are serious end users, collectors, hobbyists, and newbs.
Agree. Just because I don't "get" the adoration shouldn't affect anyone else's enjoyment, right?



Not caring about what someone else does is just fine.
See above.

[rob_s]

And, in general, I would agree with you. Running a Glock for defensive use is way easier and more cost effective than just about any 1911. That doesn't necessarily mean that people with the means and/or know how shouldn't choose a 1911 over a Glock. Is the Glock a wiser and more fiscally responsible choice? Of course. But just because that is so doesn't necessarily mean everyone will make that choice. It's the same reason why people choose to daily drive/commute in Camaros, full-size pickups, or Maseratis. Is it the wisest decision? No. But in their eyes life is too short to drive a boring car. In some people's eyes, why carry a plain old boring hunk of plastic and squared off black metal when you can pack a sleek, svelte, and super easy to shoot 1911?

Oh, I agree. And, that used to be me. I just changed tacks with regards to most things in my life as those pursuits virtually always wind up empty and wanting MOAR. The Maserati guy just winds up wanting a Ferrari, etc. FWIW, I wouldn't really put the fullsize pickup in the same box as the Camaro or Ferrari, now do I think it equates to the 1911 comparison.

I get it the sentiment, I really do, I just don't share it anymore.

What I don't get is someone choosing sentiment and adoration over function, and (to divert this back to the topic and away from me) my experience is that if you are choosing a <$2k (maybe $1500...) 1911 over a $500 Glock you are choosing sentiment and adoration over function, which I can't seem to reconcile with the associated claim that one *needs* all these guns and training and gear to defend themselves from the near certain violent encounter.

If someone has the means, and the adoration, I see no issue with carrying a high-end production (Wilson and Nighthawk are *NOT* custom guns no matter what their marketing says) or full-house custom, or even a factory gun warmed over by a competent 'smith. Or, for that matter, a well-proven factory gun that just happens to run without issue right out of the box. Just like with ARs, those are a lot more common than internet experience would suggest, just not as common as getting the same performance from a Glock at half the price. Generally the <$1k 1911 will require either (a) time and ammo vetting it and/or (b) additional time or dollars making it as reliable as it should have been from the factory.

[StraitR]

There's a lot to talk about here. Most of the custom work I've had done on Colt 1911 .45's has been about improving the user interface (removing sharp edges, improvements to sights, trigger, safeties, etc.). Most of these guns run just fine in the original configuration, that is, steel 5" guns in .45 ACP (or .38 Super) with the original, non-ramped, barrel design. Reliability problems start to occur with significant deviations from the original specs; shorter slides/barrels, ramped barrels, alloy frames, different calibers. This is not to say that these differently-configured guns can't be made to run reliably, it's just that each added variable does not improve reliability. I've had expensive pistols from famous semi-production gunmakers that did not run properly out of the box, but I'd be surprised if a significant number of new Colt 1911 .45 steel Government Models had reliability issues with ball or well-designed hollowpoints. Anyway, regarding your 1914 pistol, with new springs and magazine I would expect it to run reliably with ball, but I would not view it as a high-volume shooter. Colt did not start heat treating slides to improve hardness until the 1930's, and they did that for a reason. Modern Colt pistols have steel that is superior to the old guns, even to the WWII-era guns. This is a question, again, of durabilty, not reliability.

Change in and of itself is not necessarily bad, and who's doing the changing is pretty relevant. There are manufacturers deviating from the original design for the purpose of improvement, part of which is reliability, and they're doing it quite well. Take Wilson and things like their bulletproof ejectors, 4" ramped cone barrels, and flatwire springs. That said, and to my point, Wilson's is different than the average gun company producing a few 1911 models influenced by market trends and a specific price point.

Unless someone is buying a plane jane Series 70, the average new Colt 1911 .45 Government Models have several deviations as well.

[45dotACP]

I always am amazed how many guys seem to think that you have to either have a $2K or $3k 1911 for it to work well.

I run a few function checks, and if need be, adjust or replace a part or two. I learned that stuff on the internet or in a book somewhere. I built my gun off of Brownells parts and advice from the internet. I had never even field stripped a 1911 before a box of 1911 parts landed on my doorstep, and I'm kinda dumb (if the preceding hadn't clued you into that) so if I can keep my 1911 running, most anyone should be able to.

I'd love to have a bespoke 1911 and guys like Jason B or the other amazing 1911 mechanics out there are true masters of their art....but that stuff is way out of my pay scale, so I satisfy myself with a working man's 1911 like a Colt, Caspian or a Springfield, fix a part or two and drive on. I don't think getting a gun to work is always as rocket sciency as some seem to think.

Sometimes it is....i've come across a few filipino guns that needed major work to get running correctly, but I suspect most quality factory 1911's...even lower end ones like the Range Officer or Colt Competition Pistol, can be made to run well with just some armorer level work.

[spinmove_]

Oh, I agree. And, that used to be me. I just changed tacks with regards to most things in my life as those pursuits virtually always wind up empty and wanting MOAR. The Maserati guy just winds up wanting a Ferrari, etc. FWIW, I wouldn't really put the fullsize pickup in the same box as the Camaro or Ferrari, now do I think it equates to the 1911 comparison.

I get it the sentiment, I really do, I just don't share it anymore.

What I don't get is someone choosing sentiment and adoration over function, and (to divert this back to the topic and away from me) my experience is that if you are choosing a <$2k (maybe $1500...) 1911 over a $500 Glock you are choosing sentiment and adoration over function, which I can't seem to reconcile with the associated claim that one *needs* all these guns and training and gear to defend themselves from the near certain violent encounter.

If someone has the means, and the adoration, I see no issue with carrying a high-end production (Wilson and Nighthawk are *NOT* custom guns no matter what their marketing says) or full-house custom, or even a factory gun warmed over by a competent 'smith. Or, for that matter, a well-proven factory gun that just happens to run without issue right out of the box. Just like with ARs, those are a lot more common than internet experience would suggest, just not as common as getting the same performance from a Glock at half the price. Generally the <$1k 1911 will require either (a) time and ammo vetting it and/or (b) additional time or dollars making it as reliable as it should have been from the factory.

I would argue that you should spend time and ammo vetting any pistol that you're going to employ for any kind of serious use, but that's just me. Granted I'd be more willing to trust a Glock out of the box than a 1911, but both would go through similar testing before trusted. Also, not everyone is going to have the option of running a Glock specifically which may or may not be due to idiotic gun laws that would compromise the reliability of a Glock. Case in point, when NY had their idiotic 7-round magazine limit in place. What other pistol that you know of that is full-sized yet has 7 rounds on board and would fit most people? Is it ideal? No, but neither was that law that was in place.


I always am amazed how many guys seem to think that you have to either have a $2K or $3k 1911 for it to work well.

I run a few function checks, and if need be, adjust or replace a part or two. I learned that stuff on the internet or in a book somewhere. I built my gun off of Brownells parts and advice from the internet. I had never even field stripped a 1911 before a box of 1911 parts landed on my doorstep, and I'm kinda dumb (if the preceding hadn't clued you into that) so if I can keep my 1911 running, most anyone should be able to.

I'd love to have a bespoke 1911 and guys like Jason B or the other amazing 1911 mechanics out there are true masters of their art....but that stuff is way out of my pay scale, so I satisfy myself with a working man's 1911 like a Colt, Caspian or a Springfield, fix a part or two and drive on. I don't think getting a gun to work is always as rocket sciency as some seem to think.

Sometimes it is....i've come across a few filipino guns that needed major work to get running correctly, but I suspect most quality factory 1911's...even lower end ones like the Range Officer or Colt Competition Pistol, can be made to run well with just some armorer level work.

This post is interesting because A LOT of people make it sound like you should be a semi-custom level gunsmith in order to properly test and maintain a reliable 1911. If you're building and maintaining 1911s with armorer level experience it makes me wonder if all those people saying you should have a ton of work done to a 1911 are just comparing it to the simplicity of getting a Glock running. Which, by comparison, is so easy a caveman can do it. Kinda makes me want to run out and get a Springfield RO as a hobbyist pistol.

[StraitR]

I always am amazed how many guys seem to think that you have to either have a $2K or $3k 1911 for it to work well.

Who is saying that?

[45dotACP]

Who is saying that, because that's now what I'm reading (or saying just incase you think so). If you're going to call people out, do it by name.

Ain't calling anyone out in this thread. Just seems like there's this whole idea of "If you want a reliable 1911, be ready to spend 2-3k and/or have your very own gunsmith ready to make house calls or else have the skills to hang your shingle at Wilson Combat."

I might've heard it from James Yeager, but I've slept/been punched in the head since then

Regardless, I disagree. It's not rocket science. Hell I manage to fuck up changing the brake pads on my car and my cast framed Caspian runs just like it did 30,000 rounds ago.

[orionz06]

Agree. Just because I don't "get" the adoration shouldn't affect anyone else's enjoyment, right?



See above.

I'm not a fan of Herpley-Derpisons. I don't ride my BMW to a bar and tell everyone they bought the wrong bike. I suppose this post is not liking them out loud but you get the idea.


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