EWO class videos Dallas July 23&24

[Jackdog]

I'm really not good at posting AARs for classes I attend. Don't feel I'm good at writing. Most of My AARs would be, "awesome class! Go take it." So here are some videos from this past weekend class. https://vimeo.com/176585766https://vimeo.com/176585832https://vimeo.com/176585903https://vimeo.com/176585952https://vimeo.com/176586085https://vimeo.com/176586167https://vimeo.com/176586266https://vimeo.com/176586684https://vimeo.com/176586885https://vimeo.com/176587011https://vimeo.com/176587130https://vimeo.com/176587536https://vimeo.com/176587707

[SouthNarc]

Great seeing you again brother it's been way to long!

[Jackdog]

Thanks Craig! It was great seeing you too. And it won't be that long again.

[Gray222]

Just curious about a few things...

* Nearly all students put their heads down/heads lower than arm line up on contact - is this something that is taught?

* Nearly all students went all stabby stabby right away - deadly force up on physical confrontation?

* Not a single blade template seen. The majority of the students in the videos did the prison style shanking into the stomach area repeatedly - is that what was taught?

* When there was a knife on knife scenario, no one deployed a gun? Why?

* General knife on knife scenario - is the point to teach how to knife fight each other?

[SouthNarc]

Just curious about a few things...

* Nearly all students put their heads down/heads lower than arm line up on contact - is this something that is taught?

* Nearly all students went all stabby stabby right away - deadly force up on physical confrontation?

* Not a single blade template seen. The majority of the students in the videos did the prison style shanking into the stomach area repeatedly - is that what was taught?

* When there was a knife on knife scenario, no one deployed a gun? Why?

* General knife on knife scenario - is the point to teach how to knife fight each other?



1) I don't follow you.

2) There's no context here or decision making. It's an exercise.

3) You're absolutely correct....not a single blade template seen. General target areas are taught but not specific insertion points. The abdomen is not one of them but what you see is someone getting in the best they can under the pressure they're given.

4) Because that's not part of the training. It's strictly a knife course.

5) The point of the knife on knife work is not to teach knife fighting but to spar a forward grip or reverse grip knife jab. The exchange is limited to those techniques and clinching is discouraged in the drill.

[Gray222]

1) I don't follow you.

2) There's no context here or decision making. It's an exercise.

3) You're absolutely correct....not a single blade template seen. General target areas are taught but not specific insertion points. The abdomen is not one of them but what you see is someone getting in the best they can under the pressure they're given.

4) Because that's not part of the training. It's strictly a knife course.

5) The point of the knife on knife work is not to teach knife fighting but to spar a forward grip or reverse grip knife jab. The exchange is limited to those techniques and clinching is discouraged in the drill.

On phone so if my reply looks weird plz go with it.

1. If you watch the videos, up on contact nearly all students went head down during the initial physical contact. Is this taught or mentioned?

2. An exercise to develop what skill?

3. Do these classes normally disregard targeting?

4. Knife course, understandable no gun then, but why leave it out if most (if not all) will carry both daily?

5. What kind of instruction do you provide for this? Slash templates? Standoff distance strikes? Foot work?

[SouthNarc]

On phone so if my reply looks weird plz go with it.

1. If you watch the videos, up on contact nearly all students went head down during the initial physical contact. Is this taught or mentioned?

2. An exercise to develop what skill?

3. Do these classes normally disregard targeting?

4. Knife course, understandable no gun then, but why leave it out if most (if not all) will carry both daily?

5. What kind of instruction do you provide for this? Slash templates? Standoff distance strikes? Foot work?


1. If you're talking about dropping their weight and covering their head when they're getting punched, yes that's taught. If you mean they're dropping their head when they are throwing a thrust then no but it's a by product of the exchange.

2. The use of a knife is discussed as a lethal tool for lethal force when in fear of one's life or grave bodily injury. There's not an exercise within the two day format for students to make a determination whether they do or don't need to use lethal force. It's assumed that if a student draws their knife then they have subjectively met that threshold.

3. No

4. Actually it's not uncommon for at least half the class to not carry a gun. The class I did in San Francisco this year had no one who carried regularly except for LEOs. And they were in the minority. No one in the UK carries and most of Europe doesn't either. So it's one class that works pretty much anywhere someone can legally carry a blade.

5. The instruction is simple and the "catalog" is reductionist and congruent. There are no templates. Two ranges are taught; the "get off me" range and the "stay off me" range. I'm guessing what you call "stand-off distance strikes" is anything outside of contact distance so yes I teach someone how to use a knife to keep someone from closing. Footwork looks more like fencing and boxing than FMA.

[Gray222]

1. If you're talking about dropping their weight and covering their head when they're getting punched, yes that's taught. If you mean they're dropping their head when they are throwing a thrust then no but it's a by product of the exchange.

2. The use of a knife is discussed as a lethal tool for lethal force when in fear of one's life or grave bodily injury. There's not an exercise within the two day format for students to make a determination whether they do or don't need to use lethal force. It's assumed that if a student draws their knife then they have subjectively met that threshold.

3. No

4. Actually it's not uncommon for at least half the class to not carry a gun. The class I did in San Francisco this year had no one who carried regularly except for LEOs. And they were in the minority. No one in the UK carries and most of Europe doesn't either. So it's one class that works pretty much anywhere someone can legally carry a blade.

5. The instruction is simple and the "catalog" is reductionist and congruent. There are no templates. Two ranges are taught; the "get off me" range and the "stay off me" range. I'm guessing what you call "stand-off distance strikes" is anything outside of contact distance so yes I teach someone how to use a knife to keep someone from closing. Footwork looks more like fencing and boxing than FMA.

1. I understand the concept behind dropping weight to do a take down or something along those lines, but the first three videos clearly show the same head down contact.

2. Make a little more sense now, still seems like an unskilled response install.

3. So do you teach targeting and if so in what way?

4. So that's one class...how many do you do where the majority don't carry a gun? I'd wager more do than don't. Just an observation.

5. No templates, what about protocols? Is there any set does and don'ts you try to install?

I've never taken any of your classes so I am inquiring for personal understanding

[SouthNarc]

1. I understand the concept behind dropping weight to do a take down or something along those lines, but the first three videos clearly show the same head down contact.

2. Make a little more sense now, still seems like an unskilled response install.

3. So do you teach targeting and if so in what way?

4. So that's one class...how many do you do where the majority don't carry a gun? I'd wager more do than don't. Just an observation.

5. No templates, what about protocols? Is there any set does and don'ts you try to install?




1. So what they should be doing is dropping their weight and covering their head and I call that a "default position' which I define as "a single non-diagnostic motor skill that keeps one conscious and upright long enough to drive through or disengage. This is nothing new and is basically the same technique as "The Helmet" in ISR Matrix and the same idea as SPEAR. Its an immediate action drill for a sucker punch barrage. They should be looking straight ahead but most of these guys aren't used to getting punched hence the natural inclination to look down.

2. I don't agree in that drawing and firing on a target in live fire without discrimination every time is an unskilled response install. I prefer reps before context and generally discrimination every time slows things down especially in the beginning when people are trying to get repetitiveness. That being said if someone draws their knife preemptively in the sucker punch barrage evolution before a blow is thrown and there is clearly no articulable reason to, then I most assuredly address the issue when it happens. But the goal in that evolution is to force the student to work through a barrage of blows, not trade blade access for consciousness, get the blade out without dropping it, and diminish someone enough with it so they can escape.

3. I teach four primary target areas for thrusts in entanglement and this is essentially a point driven "system" if you can call what I do that.

a) The "C Collar" or anywhere around the circumference of the neck where one would wear such a restraint is a good place to stick a knife.
b) The armpit to get into the thoracic cavity is a good place to stick a knife
c) The back of the belt line which includes the kidneys and the base of the spine is a good place to stick a knife.
d) the "Horseshoe" which are the inner thighs, groin and perineum is a good place to stick a knife.

Edge work is secondary to point and generally incidental.

4. That's a fair point in that most of my classes do involve people that carry guns but I just don't feel it's necessary to teach transitioning to a firearm within this coursework. This course is less interdisciplinary than ECQC where people are actively plugging in guns and knives.

5. On set do's and don'ts I'd say:

a) Do stay conscious and upright.

b) Have enough wrestling to stay upright and enough BJJ to get back upright.

c) Of anything one can use to defend themselves the small knife is probably the least predictable as to what reaction it will elicit. We're not amputating or decapitating people here.

d) Understand that a simple end state of what one is trying to accomplish with a knife is important and what I teach is "Get off me, stay off me". Whether that occurs through ex-sangunation, pain, structural disabling, or a psychological stoppage is really moot. Most juries would understand "Ladies and gentleman this guy sucker punched me and I was going black so I pulled out my knife and started stabbing him to get him off me and then a stabbed him two more times when he reached back out to try and drag me back to the ground because I wanted to keep him off me. That's reasonable under those circumstances and it's certainly reasonable in the two on one evolution that the course finishes with.

e) Hitting a pinpoint area of the body is almost impossible with someone fighting back and if it happens generally it's more luck than skill. And if someone is able to control another person well enough to do that it probably begs the question of whether lethal force was warranted to begin with.

f) Establishing grip is important and knives are smaller than guns. I see far more dropped knives and knives knocked out of hand than pistols in coursework.

g) One should hit HARD with a small knife. When one factors in short blades and multiple layers of clothing, getting a knife into someone can be difficult. Realistic knife work uses power in my opinion.

That's just off the top of my head.



I've never taken any of your classes so I am inquiring for personal understanding

I hope that gives you some more insight.

[Gray222]

1. So what they should be doing is dropping their weight and covering their head and I call that a "default position' which I define as "a single non-diagnostic motor skill that keeps one conscious and upright long enough to drive through or disengage. This is nothing new and is basically the same technique as "The Helmet" in ISR Matrix and the same idea as SPEAR. Its an immediate action drill for a sucker punch barrage. They should be looking straight ahead but most of these guys aren't used to getting punched hence the natural inclination to look down.

2. I don't agree in that drawing and firing on a target in live fire without discrimination every time is an unskilled response install. I prefer reps before context and generally discrimination every time slows things down especially in the beginning when people are trying to get repetitiveness. That being said if someone draws their knife preemptively in the sucker punch barrage evolution before a blow is thrown and there is clearly no articulable reason to, then I most assuredly address the issue when it happens. But the goal in that evolution is to force the student to work through a barrage of blows, not trade blade access for consciousness, get the blade out without dropping it, and diminish someone enough with it so they can escape.

3. I teach four primary target areas for thrusts in entanglement and this is essentially a point driven "system" if you can call what I do that.

a) The "C Collar" or anywhere around the circumference of the neck where one would wear such a restraint is a good place to stick a knife.
b) The armpit to get into the thoracic cavity is a good place to stick a knife
c) The back of the belt line which includes the kidneys and the base of the spine is a good place to stick a knife.
d) the "Horseshoe" which are the inner thighs, groin and perineum is a good place to stick a knife.

Edge work is secondary to point and generally incidental.

4. That's a fair point in that most of my classes do involve people that carry guns but I just don't feel it's necessary to teach transitioning to a firearm within this coursework. This course is less interdisciplinary than ECQC where people are actively plugging in guns and knives.

5. On set do's and don'ts I'd say:

a) Do stay conscious and upright.

b) Have enough wrestling to stay upright and enough BJJ to get back upright.

c) Of anything one can use to defend themselves the small knife is probably the least predictable as to what reaction it will elicit. We're not amputating or decapitating people here.

d) Understand that a simple end state of what one is trying to accomplish with a knife is important and what I teach is "Get off me, stay off me". Whether that occurs through ex-sangunation, pain, structural disabling, or a psychological stoppage is really moot. Most juries would understand "Ladies and gentleman this guy sucker punched me and I was going black so I pulled out my knife and started stabbing him to get him off me and then a stabbed him two more times when he reached back out to try and drag me back to the ground because I wanted to keep him off me. That's reasonable under those circumstances and it's certainly reasonable in the two on one evolution that the course finishes with.

e) Hitting a pinpoint area of the body is almost impossible with someone fighting back and if it happens generally it's more luck than skill. And if someone is able to control another person well enough to do that it probably begs the question of whether lethal force was warranted to begin with.

f) Establishing grip is important and knives are smaller than guns. I see far more dropped knives and knives knocked out of hand than pistols in coursework.

g) One should hit HARD with a small knife. When one factors in short blades and multiple layers of clothing, getting a knife into someone can be difficult. Realistic knife work uses power in my opinion.

That's just off the top of my head.




I hope that gives you some more insight.

1. I am familiar with the spear concept, what they were doing, or trying to wasn't close to that. When I see the same issue with different students in different videos it stands out to me, just pointing it out.

2. Are we talking about pistols here and not blades? Discrimination is vastly more important, in my opinion, than any one skillset or installed response. Discrimination is what keeps you out of the legal system.

3. So "a good place to stick a knife" is the standard you use? Is there any specific reason of the four targeting points you referenced were picked over others?

4. It's your course, I understand you may not want to incorporate it, just wanted to see the reasoning behind it.

5.

A - excellent.
B - excellent.
C - Small blades are good to go.
D - have any of your students effectively used these statements court? Have you testified in reference to your instruction?
E - disagree with entirely. Target points can and should be accessed with any weapon system deployed. This requires knowledge and training to meet this standard. As for control, what do you mean specifically about controlling someone? Physically? Like during a clinch?
F - agree.
G - the concept I was taught and adopted is "intent" so thrusting with intent, stabbing with intent, etc. A good blade requires some strength but more precision than anything else. Like pistol work, you can do everything fast until it comes to trigger work it has to be done correctly. Blade targeting and contact is just that.


Thanks for going back and forth, trying to get an idea what to expect if I come out to a class.

[nycnoob]

1. I understand the concept behind dropping weight to do a take down or something along those lines, but the first three videos clearly show the same head down contact.


Part of the curriculum is using the head to provide forward pressure during a clinch.
This is taught via the famous "mountain goat drill".

[SouthNarc]

Thanks for going back and forth, trying to get an idea what to expect if I come out to a class.

No worries. What you can expect is that I will present what I do in as clear a way as I know how and that I will give everyone individual attention.

To be candid I think what I do is so disparate from what you do and believe that there may very well be points that are not reconcilable. Which is why there are plenty of options in the training community.

[Jackdog]

I posted the videos in no particular order what so ever.
So, they don't flow with the order S'narc teaches the material.

When S'narc presents his materials it flows and builds upon the previous material. He is clear and concise and it makes sense when you see it presented in person.

[SeriousStudent]

I really wanted to attend this class. Thanks very much for the videos, Jackdog.

Inescapable work commitments had me literally working around the clock that weekend.

I do hope Mr Douglas returns somewhere in this area soon for EWO, ECQC and especially AMIS.

[LittleLebowski]

Thanks for going back and forth, trying to get an idea what to expect if I come out to a class.

I'm seriously hoping that you do take a SouthNarc class. I know that I want to.

[Gray222]

I'm seriously hoping that you do take a SouthNarc class. I know that I want to.

It is definitely on my list, but so is a lot of stuff that is vastly more applicable to my current position.

[JAD]

I really wanted to attend this class. Thanks very much for the videos, Jackdog.

Inescapable work commitments had me literally working around the clock that weekend.

I do hope Mr Douglas returns somewhere in this area soon for EWO, ECQC and especially AMIS.

Ditto. I had the work requirements erupt shortly before the class. I will travel to make up for my failure to attend.

[43Under]

Craig is one of the best. I've not yet taken EWO or ECQC (sacrilege!), but AMIS in Pittsburgh this year convinced me I need to do more with him. His schedule just never seems to jive (or is it jibe?) with mine (2017 may turn out the same, which makes me sad). Craig gives it to you straight with zero fluff, just stuff that works.

[HopetonBrown]

Craig is one of the best instructors I've taken a class from. I was miserable through long stretches of ECQC. Days were long. I was bruised and bloodied. Getting pounced on by someone 18 years your junior who weighs 50 lbs more and 7 inches taller was not fun. I'll readily admit that I'm not a tough guy. I'm glad I took the class and got a lot out of it.

[Dagga Boy]

I have been blessed to have spent several years entirely devoted to blade stuff, and was actually tasked by my agency to develop that expertise. I have been with some of the best folks in the country and many with very different ways of doing things. I have done work with folks with very extensive actual use of edged weapons in both offensive and defensive capacities. With that precursor......I send a lot of people to Southnarc. I first took a seminar type class from Craig back probably 15 plus years ago, and found that while we were totally different in size, background, and working assignments in LE, we were both on the same path and was amazed at how many of the same conclusions we were reaching after putting in a lot of study combined with what were we seeing in the field as cops. In the areas of difference...Craig made rational sense and was in no way totally out there, we just reached a different conclusion and all the solutions were viable even if different. I wholeheartedly endorse Southnarcs classes and any one who has taken a class with us knows that we recommend our students also train with Craig, as he is doing some very solid stuff backed up with a ton of real world experience to back up why and what he does.

[SouthNarc]

I have been blessed to have spent several years entirely devoted to blade stuff, and was actually tasked by my agency to develop that expertise. I have been with some of the best folks in the country and many with very different ways of doing things. I have done work with folks with very extensive actual use of edged weapons in both offensive and defensive capacities. With that precursor......I send a lot of people to Southnarc. I first took a seminar type class from Craig back probably 15 plus years ago, and found that while we were totally different in size, background, and working assignments in LE, we were both on the same path and was amazed at how many of the same conclusions we were reaching after putting in a lot of study combined with what were we seeing in the field as cops. In the areas of difference...Craig made rational sense and was in no way totally out there, we just reached a different conclusion and all the solutions were viable even if different. I wholeheartedly endorse Southnarcs classes and any one who has taken a class with us knows that we recommend our students also train with Craig, as he is doing some very solid stuff backed up with a ton of real world experience to back up why and what he does.

Thanks buddy!

[Randy Harris]

Having taken both ECQC and EWO I can tell you from experience that ECQC as a "pistol class" is a vastly different environment from what 90% of people's prior pistol training will have covered. EWO is most likely the same as far as their prior blade training.

The overwhelming majority of folks have tons of reps standing on a range and drawing and shooting a stationary paper target and doing a pretty good impersonation of a firing squad but not so much training in trying to transition from "getting their ass beat and in lethal danger " to accessing and shooting in extreme close quarters. That and their prior pistol work generally look nothing alike.

With EWO you are not simply standing there with no pressure, drawing and applying your blade with precise slashes to the 9 angles (or however many your system teaches) in the air but instead are transitioning from "getting your ass beat and in lethal danger" to accessing and employing the knife in the clinch against a live opponent, breaking contact and then keeping them away if the BG tries to close distance again. So when people see evolutions from both ECQC and EWO with no other explanation for what is going on and why the students are doing what they are doing, the observer can really only compare it to and judge what they are seeing in those few moments of an evolution against their prior training experiences. And since it is so vastly different (for most folks) than their prior training experiences it often takes a bit of recalculation of (and followed by a subsequent questioning of) prior held beliefs to really get what they are seeing. So they really need to actually experience it before they can really make truly informed decisions on the material.

And as a post script...as to the lack of gun work in EWO...it is a KNIFE class title Edged Weapons Overview. There are numerous places in the US you might be able to carry a knife but not a gun and for those of us who do travel outside the US a gun is just not an option in most places.....but a knife is. So while I live in the South and can legally carry a gun and knife every day here at home I don't really have that option outside the US....or in New Jersey...or in NY...or in Mass....so sometime all you have will be a knife.