What does an 870 need?

[ASH556]

I read through some of the other threads I found in a search but they seemed more around accessorizing. I want to know about 870's in terms of parts/build quality. Lots is said about new 870's being junk but why? Are there specific parts that can be replaced? I get that parts aren't parts. I understand from AR's that just because it looks like one doesn't mean it is one. Because of the increasing popularity of AR's over shotguns, it's harder to find good shotgun info. The shotgun will be in a 2nd or 3rd line HD role, but at the same time I like quality gear to trust my life with.

Bottom line question, what do I need to look for in a used gun or upgrade in a new one?

[okie john]

Tagged.


Okie John

[peterb]

I've read multiple reports of failures to extract/stuck shells when using cheap steel-head shells. Most common in the 870 Express line. Polishing the chamber and extension where the lip of the shell rides seems to help.

[txdpd]

As far as "need" goes, they need to be fed lots and lots of ammo. The hard part about running a pump is weapon manipulation.

The new police shotguns are still good. Used police guns can be hit or miss. The most important thing is to look at the shotgun if it looks like it's been beat to a pulp, it probably has, avoid them. If it has been refinished, the parts/furniture is mismatched or the furniture is better shape then the metal finish, then it's probably a parts gun and should be avoided. If it looks like it's been taken care of, it probably has. The cost of a used shotgun and a refurb, like Wilson's Remington steal, cost wise will end up in the same ballpark as a new shotgun.


The shotgun will be in a 2nd or 3rd line HD role, but at the same time I like quality gear to trust my life with.

It might be worthwhile to seek out the rare aluminum receiver version of the 870, it'll be marked "Benelli" and come in M1, M2, and M4 variations.

[Artemas2]

If you go with the new express route the common complaints are

Rough chambers (can be easily polished)
Poor finish/prone to rust (a cheap fix is shooters choice rust prevent)
Dimpled mag tube prevents tube extension (if you want a plus whatever tube you will need to breakout the dremel and grind/drill out the dimples)
Safety buttons are stiff to disengage (extended button helps a bit)

I bought one around 5 years ago or so and went through all of the above plus some personal changes (forend, stock, and ghost ring, scattergun +2 extension)

It is by no means a top of the line gun, but with a good chamber polish mine feeds everything in 12 gauge and goes bang when I pull the trigger.

The nice thing about the 870 is the huge after market support. You buy and replace just about every part except the receiver through a brownells order.

[farscott]

I wrote this for a different thread, but it is applicable.

Here is my list.

1) If the bead or front sight is mounted on a base, insure base is located at 12:00. Seen more than one that was way off.
2) Check to see if barrel ring is attached to barrel. Had one recent 870 Express barrel on which the barrel ring was not soldered/brazed. Not sure how it got out of Ilion.
3) Insure action bars are not binding and action is not sticking. It will not be smooth out of the box if new, but it should not bind.
4) If used, insure that gun has the Flexitab upgrade. Field strip the gun, so that you can verify the bolt and bolt carrier have the Flexitab changes. There are guns with the correct shell lifter but the older bolt and bolt carrier.
5) If used, check to see if the serial number ends in "V" or "M". The former has the ejector pinned for 2-3/4" and shorter shells. The latter has the ejector pinned for 3" and shorter shells. Do NOT use the barrel to do this as 870 barrels are interchangeable, other than Special Field models and some of the new 870 Tactical models. Lots of three-inch barrels on the older receivers. The ejector can be installed in the three-inch position, but that is a trip to Ilion or to a good smith.
6) Insure gun is not one of the 870 Special Field models or one of the new 870 Tactical models due to the lack of barrel interchangeability.
7) If used, insure there is no J-lock on the safety unless you plan on replacing the entire safety. No one wants a shotgun with a self-actuating safety that requires a tool to deactivate.
8) If used, look for dimples in the magazine tube. If an Express, the newer ones have a different magazine cap retention system. I much prefer the older Wingmaster models so as to not deal with the dimples and the different cap retention.
9) Check for loose (not staked) shell latches when the gun is field stripped. If not staked, do not buy as gun needs to go to a smith. Gun will function with latches not staked, but the chances of a feed jam increase.

Other than that, all you need are a few cases of decent shells (not Winchester Universal or Remington Gun Club) and some range time. After the ammo is gone, I would consider a few changes based on how the gun fits the shooter. I like forearm furniture that does not cover the receiver for access to shells, and you can think about mounting a light and adding a sling. I also like the Speedfeed IV-S butt stock as I find the pistol grip useful and the shorter stock helps with gun fit.

[Jay Cunningham]

A quality steel target.

[ASH556]

It might be worthwhile to seek out the rare aluminum receiver version of the 870, it'll be marked "Benelli" and come in M1, M2, and M4 variations.

BTDT:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/D46F1088-7B0F-44E9-8DF9-0FB16F21ED03.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/D46F1088-7B0F-44E9-8DF9-0FB16F21ED03.jpg.html)

Decided the juice wasn't worth the squeeze for this application. Thanks for the other info.

[Edster]

A lot of my suggestions would just be repeating what Artemas2 and farscott posted.

If you do get an Express and remove the dimples, you probably should also look into getting a spring, detent ball, and punch for the magazine cap. Brownell's provides these and it's an easy installation. Otherwise, whatever cap or extension you put on will tend to back out unless you add a barrel/magazine clamp.

The j-key safety, while not desirable, is easy to replace. I'm not a fan of oversized safeties but a lot of other people are.

My understanding is the Express uses a MIM extractor that rounds off over time. The forged 870P extractor is an easy drop-in replacement.

Oddly enough, the chamber on my 3 year-old 870P is actually a little rougher than the one on my 12 year-old 870 Express. It's not bad enough to cause any extraction problems, though.

[peterb]

My understanding is the Express uses a MIM extractor that rounds off over time. The forged 870P extractor is an easy drop-in replacement..

Ask Tam about that. As I recall, she had to fit one while away at a class, using the hotel sidewalk as the abrasive tool.

I replaced one and had to chamfer the outside corner of the extractor so it wouldn't drag on the inside of the receiver.

[Edster]

On the extractor, my sample size was one. Sounds like it might not be totally drop-in after all.

[oldtexan]

Bought a pair of 870 Expresses (both #25077)4 years ago to see what it took to make good HD pieces out of them. I've put about 1800 rds through each gun. One of them had a 4 rd integral mag, Rem 2 shot extension, and no dimples. Replaced the Rem unit with a Wilson Combat +2 extension. I've since read reports of their welds failing so if I were doing it again I might go with the Vang Comp extension.

The other gun (same product #)has the unitary 6 rd mag tube and dimples. Seems to be a potentially sturdier arrangement than dealing with a 4rd mag and an extension, but it limits your flexibility in using different barrels.

Definitely second the comments about failures to extract caused by rough chambers, especially with cheaper shells with steel in the case head. Likewise the lousy corrosion resistance.

I'm 5'10" and have long arms( 34" sleeve)but found the OEM stock with 14" LOP was way too long for me to get into a good squared stance. Tried the Hogue Overmold 12" LOP nominal (actually about 11.5-12" LOP)stock but it beat up my face. Solved the problem with the Magpul SGA stock without spacers which gives me a 12.5-12.75" LOP.

Followed my local smith's suggestion to replace the MIM OEM extractors with forged ones when he was flex honing the chambers.

Replaced the thin OEM mag followers because I read so many reports of them failing. Many aftermarket ones are good, but I recommend the S&J models esp the ones with a hollow in the back end that lets you tell by feel if the mag is empty.

I want a white light (ideally 150-200 lumens if it's just for use inside the house) on any HD long gun. I've got a Surefire LM318 (100 lumens)on one of my guns and a Magpul forend with an X300 (170 lumens)on the other. Both work for me, but I like the LM318 better because it's one integrated unit. They don't make them anymore IIRC so I may put a Surefire DSF870 on the second gun one day.

[Willard]

Beyond the above, here's what I'd change to a non-police model (note: Brownells used to carry the LE SKU parts, I don't know if that is still the case):

Sear spring
Carrier dog spring
NON-MIM extractor
Not a fan of the factory mag extension due to reliability and "tuning"/"over tightening" issues. I'd go Wilson plus one or leave as is. Also, some have reported reliability issues if you affix a sling to factory mag extension. I never used a sling on 870, so cannot confirm, but apparently was an issue for some.
Short police type forearm that does not cover the loading gate. Might consider Surefire forearm for light if you don't have another plan for affixing light.
Others have already mentioned the dimpled mag tube and other considerations. I don't know if you need to smooth the chamber or that was something Remington told LE as marketing. Never had an Express.
I'd add a wilson or Vang Comp mag follower and a Vang Comp safety. I put a Wilson safety on mine, but after handling a Vang Comp equipped model, would have gone Vang Comp in a do over. Not big enough issue to change out.
Personally, I'd go for an older police model as they probably look like hell, but had relatively few rounds through them considering what they are capable of. Save time and effort. Like most things, older seems to be better despite technology. We'd never be able to build the pyramids today to the same level. Funny & sad at the same time.

YMMV.

[farscott]

For all of the talk about the MIM extractor, I have not yet seen one or heard of one that failed. Everything about them has always been secondhand. Not sure I would concern myself with this. The extractor, of course, is not on an issue on the Wingmaster and 870P models.

I also have messed around with followers as the 870 follower is the same basic design as the Remington 11, but the Model 11 follower is made of steel. The reason for the switch to a polymer follower was not to save money (but that is indeed a benefit), but to stop battering the receiver with the follower during recoil with the last shell in the gun.

On magazine extensions, my preference is to go without as the extension makes the gun much more muzzle heavy and harder to drive from target to target. I do have one 870P with the 2+ Wilson extension, and it is one heavy gun when fully loaded.

Definitely agree about buying an older 870P as long as it has the Flexitab upgrades. The last one I bought cost me less than $250 and came with the Surefire forend, MMC peep rear sight, +1 Vang Comp extension, and Speedfeed IV-S stock. I added an 870P 18" IMP CYL barrel with a tritium bead. For less than $400, it is a great value.

[lwt16]

I'm pretty sure my 870 was pre-MIM days as I bought it way back in the 90s.

Anyway, I used it in my police job for several years until the department bought Benelli Novas and mandated their use. I retired it to the safe but it still serves as a formidable trunk gun when I go on trips with the family.

Remington 870 Special Purpose with rifle sights.
Speedfeed stock with pistol grip
Scattergun Technologies oversized safety
Stattergun Technologies extension tube with high viz follower and spring package
side saddle shell carrier

Shot hundreds and hundreds of rounds through this shotgun....healthy mix of 00 buck and 1 oz rifled slugs. Even with it's smooth bore, I had no trouble putting 5 slugs in a palm sized pattern at the 50 yard line. I trained with it regularly and could kick out seven shots on target in no time at all. I set up many a perimeter and laid in many a yard behind trees and cover with that shotgun and always felt well protected with it. This was before my department got on board with the patrol rifle philosophy.

Pretty sure I was in the 400-500 dollar neck of the woods on that build. I never had the first problem with it. If they took my AR and my Nova tomorrow, I'd drag it out and throw it in the cruiser and run out to the range and qualify with it.

They were great shotguns back in the day. I have no experience with modern ones.

[TCinVA]

I read through some of the other threads I found in a search but they seemed more around accessorizing. I want to know about 870's in terms of parts/build quality. Lots is said about new 870's being junk but why?

Unfortunately Remington has been in a race to the bottom in terms of the quality of the product they are putting out. Rougher finishes, inferior quality parts, and various and sundry other shortcuts. It's a testament to the design of the 870 that they can turn out a gun that still works as well as it does with all those shortcuts.

As with many other guns, most people just won't be shooting that 870 they picked up from Wal-Mart for $300 bucks all that much. So it will be fine for them.

Obviously as a weapon intended for serious social purposes like a duty shotgun one made the old fashioned way would be superior...which is why the police model shotgun exists. And costs at least a couple hundred bucks more.



Are there specific parts that can be replaced? I get that parts aren't parts. I understand from AR's that just because it looks like one doesn't mean it is one.


Basically the entire trigger group and the extractor.



Bottom line question, what do I need to look for in a used gun or upgrade in a new one?

I chose upgrading a used gun. I bought a Wingmaster police spec shotgun from Summit Gunbroker and I'm quite pleased with the gun. The old Wingmasters are really well-made guns from Remington's peak and should last a lifetime. Or two. There are a bunch of police trade-in shotguns out there that spent a lot of time in a rack, but relatively little time actually being shot. Get one, clean it, replace the spring and perhaps follower in the mag tube (I put a Wilson +1 extension on my guns) and shoot it to see if it really needs anything else. Odds are it won't.

My 2 cents. I'm by no means the foremost expert on the 870 out there...but the general consensus I've found from people who really do know their scatterguns is why buy a new 870 when there are a ton of much better made Wingmasters out there available at stupidly cheap prices these days?

[M2CattleCo]

Mossberg 590A1 is a better gun all around and doesn't have the loading gate to make life difficult at the most inopportune times.

[Buckshot]

Lots of good advice already posted. After working on hundreds of 870s, here are my basic bulletproofing tips for a fighting 870.
#1- You do need a tool steel extractor - I've replaced numerous broken MIM extractors on 870s. Don't hate MIM - hate on poor QC & production testing.
#2- If it is an Express, it likely needs the chamber polished/honed and the barrel checked for breech bolt battering. Both conditions are easy fixes & won't re-occur after correction.
#3- Check the quality of the stake job on the shell stops - Remington doesn't always get them right or, more likely, the operator jams a tool into/under the stops while cleaning. Often you don't know they're loose until you drop the trigger group and they fall out on the floor or worse, it starts gagging rather than feeding when you work the action. The other 870 problem usually caused by hamhanded owners are broken ejectors & ejector springs. You don't need to be spooked by 870 ejectors & shell stops, they are reasonably rugged, just don't go blindly stabbing around them with metal tools or snag them hard with cleaning gear.

#1 is DIY if you are reasonably handy (but you do have to hold your mouth right to remove them), #2 & #3 are best executed by a qualified & switched-on gunsmith who knows what they're looking for.

I'll still take a Remington over a Mossberg all day long on the basis of a # of design strengths.

PS - I agree about buying older 870s, but you should update the firing pin (older design was more breakage prone), update the shell follower & install a flextab kit. The LE sear spring makes the trigger pull heavier, but does not enhance safety. The LE carrier dog spring creates extra drag on the action & I've never found it to improve function, but your mileage may vary & it won't hurt anything. I've seen the plastic trigger guard housing broken by exceptional abuse, but I've seen the alloy LE housings bent & broken also.

[K.O.A.M.]

My duty shotgun for the last 12 years has been an ex-Metro Dade Wingmaster. When I bought it, there was a property form that was mimeographed into the stock. I don't know how much is was shot before me, but I've put thousands of rounds through it with no problems. The old Wingmasters are usually fairly cheap to acquire and parts can be substituted. I have three Wingmasters made before 1980, and I didn't pay more than $225 for any of them. If you have concerns about Remington's current production, the old ones are fairly cheap and can be customized as required.

[coldcase1984]

Old Wingmaster Magnums and Police Magnums are the way to go. Did a Form 1 on my old Narc Wingmaster (bought it when Traded to wholesaler; $150) the day before the deadline. Virtually all its parts are steel. Gonna see if I can get Custom Shop to make a blued 12.5-in. Bbl w XS fixed sights for it.

The best part Ive put on it lately is the Timney Trigger Fix medium spring. Breaks like a target trigger.

[ASH556]

Thanks for all the input guys. I picked up this old Wingmaster today. I've been eyeing it at a local shop for about 6 weeks now. It has the "V" suffix, so 2-3/4" only and the barrel agrees. Shell stops are staked. No flex tab, but after reading about it and then inducing a malfunction and clearing it, I don't think I'm going to change it on this gun. Express style adjustable sights, smooth bore, and I assume IC (barrel isn't marked with a choke that I can see.)

Odd thing is that the mag only holds 4-1/2 shells. Is that normal? I thought it would be 5. I'd love some feedback on this gun from our resident shotgun experts (Tom Givens, Nyeti, JLW, etc)

Pics:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/1F08A112-069A-4131-9969-87491671A39A.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/1F08A112-069A-4131-9969-87491671A39A.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/0AC25EC5-A41C-4B33-8581-C2CA1CE4D6C6.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/0AC25EC5-A41C-4B33-8581-C2CA1CE4D6C6.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/F8FBE8F4-8B4E-4F26-802C-28E927FD9512.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/F8FBE8F4-8B4E-4F26-802C-28E927FD9512.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/D8CD29FC-DB0B-4983-874A-F4ED8D53411B.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/D8CD29FC-DB0B-4983-874A-F4ED8D53411B.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/4EB9C304-58E9-42E7-99F8-1A01E426430D.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/4EB9C304-58E9-42E7-99F8-1A01E426430D.jpg.html)

[okie john]

Thanks for all the input guys. I picked up this old Wingmaster today. I've been eyeing it at a local shop for about 6 weeks now. It has the "V" suffix, so 2-3/4" only and the barrel agrees. Shell stops are staked. No flex tab, but after reading about it and then inducing a malfunction and clearing it, I don't think I'm going to change it on this gun. Express style adjustable sights, smooth bore, and I assume IC (barrel isn't marked with a choke that I can see.)

Odd thing is that the mag only holds 4-1/2 shells. Is that normal? I thought it would be 5. I'd love some feedback on this gun from our resident shotgun experts (Tom Givens, Nyeti, JLW, etc)

I picked up a twin to this not long ago. Haven't had much time to mess with it yet, but looking forward to it. Check the mag tube and see if something isn't stuck in there.


Okie John

[Irelander]

Regarding the forged extractor, this mirrors my experience.

I replaced one and had to chamfer the outside corner of the extractor so it wouldn't drag on the inside of the receiver.

[ASH556]

Talked to Remington and SN dates the gun to pre '68. 4 + 1 mag capacity is correct.

[Tamara]

Ask Tam about that. As I recall, she had to fit one while away at a class, using the hotel sidewalk as the abrasive tool.

I replaced one and had to chamfer the outside corner of the extractor so it wouldn't drag on the inside of the receiver.

*twitch*

What kind of 'tard would replace the extractor in her 870 right before flying clean across country for a major 3 Gun match and then not test-fire it?

*raises hand sheepishly*

You could pivot that extractor to any point in its arc of travel, let go of it, and it would stay right there...

It was supposed to "drop in"! :mad:

[peterb]

Thanks for all the input guys. I picked up this old Wingmaster today. I've been eyeing it at a local shop for about 6 weeks now. It has the "V" suffix, so 2-3/4" only and the barrel agrees. Shell stops are staked. No flex tab, but after reading about it and then inducing a malfunction and clearing it, I don't think I'm going to change it on this gun. Express style adjustable sights, smooth bore, and I assume IC (barrel isn't marked with a choke that I can see.)]

Nice! I like that style forearm much better than the later Wingmasters with the pressed checkering.

If that's the original recoil pad, and it's rock-hard, replacing it might be something to consider.

[txdpd]

Flex tab is a worthwhile upgrade. Clearing jams by slamming the butt stock on the ground is a good way to split a really nice wood stock.

The 4 round capacity is correct, older roll crimped shotgun shells had thicker hulls and a slightly longer loaded length than thinner modern plastic 6 and 8 point crimped hulls. If you find some old 2 3/4 waxed paper shells you'll only get about 4 and a quarter shells in the magazine tube. Having a little reserve capacity on a spring never hurt anyone.

[DamonL]

If you are going to use your gun for defensive work, the flexitab is like buying insurance. You probably won't need it, but it might come in handy when things go south. If it's just for range and fun. You don't need it.

[farscott]

Thanks for all the input guys. I picked up this old Wingmaster today. I've been eyeing it at a local shop for about 6 weeks now. It has the "V" suffix, so 2-3/4" only and the barrel agrees. Shell stops are staked. No flex tab, but after reading about it and then inducing a malfunction and clearing it, I don't think I'm going to change it on this gun. Express style adjustable sights, smooth bore, and I assume IC (barrel isn't marked with a choke that I can see.)

Odd thing is that the mag only holds 4-1/2 shells. Is that normal? I thought it would be 5. I'd love some feedback on this gun from our resident shotgun experts (Tom Givens, Nyeti, JLW, etc.

You did really well. If you decide you want synthetic furniture, the wood furniture on that 870 will sell for more than $200.

Choke markings, if present, will be on the left side of the barrel just forward of the receiver. If there is no marking, I believe the gun is CYL (no constriction).

The shell capacity issue is a function of the shells, the follower, and the spring. Some of the newer 2-3/4" shells are a bit longer than the older shells in the not-fired condition.

One the Flexitab system, I strongly recommend doing it if the gun is going to be a social gun. Lots of people never short-stroke a gun on the range, but do when under pressure. You can mortar the gun open to clear the jam by slamming it down on the butt stock when holding the slide, but it would be a shame to ruin that gorgeous wood. I am no expert, but everyone whose class I attended stated the Flexitab system was a good thing to have.

[ralph]

Ash
That's a fine example of what a 870 used to be, made when Remington actually gave a shit about what kind of product they sent out the door. With just a little work, that'll make a great home defense shotgun. You did good.

[SecondsCount]

Ash
That's a fine example of what a 870 used to be, made when Remington actually gave a shit about what kind of product they sent out the door. With just a little work, that'll make a great home defense shotgun. You did good.

You mean back before people had to own ten cheap guns rather than a couple really well built models?

High quality shotguns are still being made but not a lot of people are willing to pay for them.

[ralph]

Ash
That's a fine example of what a 870 used to be, made when Remington actually gave a shit about what kind of product they sent out the door. With just a little work, that'll make a great home defense shotgun. You did good.


You mean back before people had to own ten cheap guns rather than a couple really well built models?

High quality shotguns are still being made but not a lot of people are willing to pay for them.

Yes, I know...There's a shop about 25-30minutes away from me that sells nothing but shotguns, trap/sheet and reloading supplys. They have shotguns in there that go for $30,000 So,yeah you're right in as much quality shotguns are still being made, but the $300 Remington express is'nt one of them. Recently I bought a Beretta 1301 tactical, compared to my 870 express, it's about a lightyear ahead...

[Willard]

I'd welcome that shotgun into my safe. If reliable and no undetected mechanical issues, great find.

[Tamara]

A 20" smoothbore rifle-sighted 870 slug gun is as evocative of a period in time as a 2-tone 1911 with S&W revolver sights and a nickeled Bodyguard Airweight. That's an old-school gettin'-shit-done splattergun, right there.

[Rex G]

Thanks for all the input guys. I picked up this old Wingmaster today. I've been eyeing it at a local shop for about 6 weeks now. It has the "V" suffix, so 2-3/4" only and the barrel agrees. Shell stops are staked. No flex tab, but after reading about it and then inducing a malfunction and clearing it, I don't think I'm going to change it on this gun. Express style adjustable sights, smooth bore, and I assume IC (barrel isn't marked with a choke that I can see.)

Odd thing is that the mag only holds 4-1/2 shells. Is that normal? I thought it would be 5. I'd love some feedback on this gun from our resident shotgun experts (Tom Givens, Nyeti, JLW, etc)

Pics:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/1F08A112-069A-4131-9969-87491671A39A.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/1F08A112-069A-4131-9969-87491671A39A.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/0AC25EC5-A41C-4B33-8581-C2CA1CE4D6C6.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/0AC25EC5-A41C-4B33-8581-C2CA1CE4D6C6.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/F8FBE8F4-8B4E-4F26-802C-28E927FD9512.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/F8FBE8F4-8B4E-4F26-802C-28E927FD9512.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/D8CD29FC-DB0B-4983-874A-F4ED8D53411B.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/D8CD29FC-DB0B-4983-874A-F4ED8D53411B.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/4EB9C304-58E9-42E7-99F8-1A01E426430D.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/4EB9C304-58E9-42E7-99F8-1A01E426430D.jpg.html)

Nice! More than once, I have very nearly bought an older Wingmaster, as a local dealer specializes in collectible firearms, and while their prices on handguns and some rifles are high, old Wingmasters are priced reasonably. My wife's home defense long weapon is a Wingmaster with an old-school Remington folding stock (I know, I know*) and 18" barrel, and a very early Surefire fore-end. Even though I have two 870P shotguns, I have thought that we have the room to rescue another classic Wingmaster, or two.

If there are no markings indicating choke, it is probably cylinder bore. I remember when Remington started making their slug barrels with IC choke, and believe your Wingmaster pre-dates that time.

*The LOP of the old-school Remington metal folding stock is too long for most folks, probably about 14".

[Buckshot]

*The LOP of the old-school Remington metal folding stock is too long for most folks, probably about 14".

The Remington folding stock was designed by someone who hated all mankind!