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ToddG
11-06-2011, 10:15 PM
Please read the rules (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1837-Drill-of-the-Week) before participating in this thread.

Week 6: Typewriter
results may be posted until 11:59pm EDT on Monday 14-November-2011.

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/6-twos-numbered-thumb.jpg (http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/6-twos-numbered.pdf)

modified from a drill by CCT12US
Range: 5yd
Target: 6 2" circles on the downloadable target (http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/6-twos-numbered.pdf) from pistol-training.com
Start position: holstered
Rounds fired: 24

On the beep, draw and fire one round at each of the six 2" circles in order from #1 to #6 and then immediately repeat from #1 to #6 again for a total of twelve rounds fired. Record your time.

Then starting from the holster again, on the beep draw and fire one round at each of the six 2" circles in reverse order from #6 to #1 then immediately repeat from #6 to #1 again. Record your time.

You must shoot the targets in proper order each time.

Your score is the number of hits you made (out of 24) divided by your total time for the two strings of fire. So for example if you get 23 hits and shoot it in 25.55 seconds your score is:

23 ÷ 25.55 = 0.80

This drill is not capacity-neutral. If your handgun holds less than 12 rounds, you will need to reload during the drill. If your pistol holds less than 6 rounds, you will need to reload more than once. The time for the reload counts toward your score.

If your range does not allow drawing from a holster, start from a ready position with the muzzle pointed off the target and add two seconds to your time for each string.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Pistol's ammo capacity
Type of draw (open, concealed, retention holster)
Hits
Times
Score

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

KeeFus
11-07-2011, 02:42 PM
Pistols ammo cap: 18 (M&P 9mm)
Draw: Concealed (Sig Tac vest)
Hits: 18
Times: S1 - 12:06. S2 - 11:29. Combined = 23.35
Score: 0.77 (I guess this means a C-) :eek:

http://i.imgur.com/5kdXM.jpg


Nice day @ the range today weather wise...I'm still learning the sights on this pistol. Prior to this drill I ran through the IDPA classifier...not gonna talk about it anymore than 1 missed head shot and 2 misses from 20 yards. Yea, it was that bad.

Anyway, the M&P ran like a top.

PPGMD
11-07-2011, 02:53 PM
Can this be done on the Pistol-Training Q targets?

Bob H
11-07-2011, 03:55 PM
Cz 75 9mm
concealed open jacket
Capacity 17
First 10.00 -4
Sec. 11.58 -1
19/21.58=.88
Again
First 9.38 -2
Sec 7.99 -3
19/17.37= 1.09
Need more hits
Great drill for trigger control/sight alignment
Bob H

ToddG
11-07-2011, 06:59 PM
Can this be done on the Pistol-Training Q targets?

Yes. The spacing of the targets is slightly wider on the Q-PT, so there is at least a theoretical disadvantage.

My DotW 6 results:

Part of the reason I stole CCT125US's drill for this week was due to the recent discussion in the Speed vs Accuracy (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2082-Speed-vs-Accuracy-(from-DotW-4-thread)) thread and in particular joshs's comments about IPSC hit factor as it relates to scoring. This drill, for all intents and purposes, uses IPSC scoring.

As such, I decided to run it three times with three different goals. First, I ran it like I would at an IPSC match ... focused on hits but not striving for perfect accuracy at the cost of speed.

string 1: 7.07 seconds, -1 hit
string 2: 6.88 seconds, -2 hits
21 total hits ÷ total time 13.95 seconds = 1.51
http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/dotw6a.jpg



Second, I took the time to guarantee every hit.

string 1: 9.71 seconds, clean
string 2: 10.62 seconds, clean
24 total hits ÷ total time of 20.33 seconds = 1.18
http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/dotw6b.jpg



Finally, I shot 'til the wheels fell off and kept shooting.

string 1: 5.61 seconds, -6 hits
string 2: 5.48 seconds, -3 hits
15 total hits ÷ total time of 11.09 seconds = 1.35
http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/dotw6c.jpg



All three runs were with my G17 gen4 endurance test gun loaded to 12rd. Draws were from concealment underneath a half-zip fleece.

So even when hits and misses have equal weight (all or nothing points), under this scheme it can be better to go fast and miss than slow down to guarantee every hit.

Now for giggles, let's take the IPSC scoring another step. Instead of all or nothing hits and misses, Let's call the circle 5 points and the area around it 4 points (like a C-zone). My scores become:

First balanced run (117 points) = 8.39
Second perfect run (120 points) = 5.90
Third wild run (111 points) = 10.01

And that is how, in IPSC, you can miss fast enough to win.

DocGKR
11-07-2011, 07:41 PM
Let's call a hit +1 and a miss -1...

ToddG
11-07-2011, 07:55 PM
My long post wasn't intended to change the scoring as posted at the beginning of the thread, just to show how scoring systems can dramatically affect the ideal balance between speed & accuracy.

The scoring for this drill is: total number of hits ÷ total time in seconds.

DocGKR
11-07-2011, 08:47 PM
Understood and I was not suggesting any changes to the DOW #6 scoring.

I was offering that hypothetical difference in scoring in the same vein as what you were doing, ie. how scoring can change the final outcome and guide our emphasis and efforts in trying to reach that desired goal.

MDS
11-07-2011, 09:40 PM
Pistol capacity: 15 (I loaded 2 mags with 12 rounds each.)
Draw: from concealment (G19 out of a VMII at 4o'clock under a closed-front shirt)
Hits: 12 + 10 = 22
Times: 20.54 + 22.00 = 42.54
Score: 22 / 42.54 = .517

EmanP
11-07-2011, 11:17 PM
Great drill to test out the IPSC scoring. Now I can't wait to give it a go.

167
11-08-2011, 07:45 PM
Shot with Beretta 96D, 10 round magazines w/o cover garment.

Run 1: 17.64 clean
Run 2: 15.44 -4

Score: 0.60459

I have much work to do. :(

JFK
11-08-2011, 07:55 PM
Well this was a good one.... :rolleyes:

Pistol capacity 8+1
AIWB concealed
String 1: 17.79 -1
String 2: 13.78 -4
Score: 19 / 31.57= .60

On an interesting note the range that I was at was in doors, with nothing to hold the bottom of the paper down. I used my SD ammo and around dot 3 the muzzle blast was moving the paper to make an extra little fun for me.

**edited for math.

DocGKR
11-09-2011, 02:02 AM
I ran this drill several times today during the lunch break at the Jason Falla carbine course using an RDS equipped G17 drawn from a Frick OWB holster concealed under a shell. Unfortunately I never was able to get a clean run. My best was:

10.21 w/1 miss + 9.47 w/2 misses = 21/19.69= 1.07

chris
11-09-2011, 02:13 PM
I'm active duty military and my family and I just transfered to a new duty station in a small town out in the middle of the redwoods of northern cali that's plagued with major drug problems. Needless to say I just got my CCW and realized the weight of responsibility of carrying a firearm in a civilian role. So I decided that if i'm going to do this i need to do it right: become proficient with my firearm and sign up for a few classes. Because of seasonal weather it looks like there won't be anything available until spring of next year which got me looking on the internet for anything i could find to help me in the mean while, which is how I found this site. Hands down this is one of the greatest places on the internet for pistol trainning, kudos to ToddG and everyone involved in creating\maitaining this site! Below is my first experience with "Drill of the Week"....I've got a long ways to go, but I'm deffinetly enjoying the journey and working towards keeping my family safe in the process, what could be better?! :)

Shot with a G19 w\LW 3.5 connector, Ameriglo fiber opitc front sight (green), Safari land model 27 IWB holster @ 2 o'clock position concealed with long sleeved T-shirt:

1st string: 18.79 sec -6

2nd string: 35.64 sec -1

total score: 17/ 54.43 = 0.31

Sighhh....I guess you gotta start some where. Obviously on the second string I calmed down and took it slow, which improved my accuracy greatly.

rsa-otc
11-09-2011, 06:50 PM
M&P 45 10 round Mags

Cover garment open front front button down shirt

Ran this drill after doing a 1/2 99 drill, was my intention to run it cold but the guy running the 45 next to me kept messing with my timer.

anyway
From the Holster
First 12 - 24.00 -1 point
second 12 - 18.69 -2 points

21 points + 42.69 seconds = .492

Had trouble all night with my draw and clearing the cover garment prior to establishing my grip. On both runs had to do a double take.

jthhapkido
11-09-2011, 07:16 PM
Gen 4 Glock 17
17 round mags, loaded to 12+1 in both cases
Concealment draw, closed jacket, from an Archangel AIWB

Shot Cold (and when I say cold, I ALSO mean literally cold---it was FREEZING out there):

String 1: 9.62 -3
String 2: 8.56 -4

Hits/Time: 17/18.18 = .9351


Kinda embarrassing to miss that much. :eek: (So I really need to keep doing this, because if it is sufficiently embarrassing, I'll get and and fix the problem!)

Took a moment to shoot 20 rounds just to make sure my fingers and hands could work the trigger properly, and shot it one more time:

2nd Attempt:
String 1: 9.59 -2
String 2: 9.78 -1

Hits/Time: 21/19.37 = 1.084

Not where it should be. Two of the three misses were close, but I yanked one in the first string REALLY badly. I also need to work more on my concealment draw, because I wasted LOTS of time each string on that. Bleh.

Good drill. I've been working with 3-inch dots, and those 2-inch dots seem considerably smaller. :(

[sigh] Another wakeup call that I need to work on my precision.

TheRoland
11-10-2011, 10:09 AM
I only had time to run this drill once this morning, and, well, it did not go well. I slowed way down (1.2-1.5 second splits or so) to get my hits, and then... missed.

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af179/TheRoland/IMG_0009.jpg

Pistol Capacity: 10 Rounds
Holster: Strong-side OWB, open-front vest.
String 1: 18.65
String 2: 20.71
12 Hits.

12 / 39.36 = 0.30

I think that makes this the worst score yet! :cool:

jar
11-10-2011, 11:46 AM
Shot this with TheRoland this morning. We're hoping to make a practice session including the DoTW a weekly thing.

Equipment: M&P9 Pro, strong side kydex, vest, 10 round mags
String 1: 21.44 8 hits
String 2: 22.22 9 hits
Total: 17 hits in 43.66 for a score of 0.389

Low probability targets at speed needs a ton of work. Like many, I tend to shoot for precision slowly and shoot for speed on big open targets. I see a lot of draws to 3x5 and 2" circles in my future.

Pennzoil
11-10-2011, 01:42 PM
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4897/dotw6.jpg


Pistol capacity: 13rd magazines
Draw: from concealment (P2000 V2 LEM from AIWB)
Hits: 9 + 12= 21
Times: 16.83 -3
15.97 C
Score: 21 / 32.8 = 0.64

Second drill I did with new to me pistol(used) after getting used to everything.

Corey
11-10-2011, 02:57 PM
Shot it with an M&P 9mm FS, 17 round mags. Concealed, strong side holster with open front cover garment.
1st run: 20.25 seconds, 10 points
2nd run: 18.24 seconds, 8 points
Score: .47

Tried it SHO just for fun.
1st run: 23.87 seconds, 9 points
2nd run: 21.96 seconds, 9 points
Score: .39

I am going to try again tomorrow and see what happens, I sucked at every drill I ran yesterday. I am going to add this drill to my regular practice as well.

Mr_White
11-10-2011, 05:49 PM
Did this drill a few times yesterday, but then realized I did it wrong (shot the circles in the wrong order.)

Redid it today, correctly:

Gen3 G34, stock, Defoor sights
17 + 1 capacity, but loaded to 12 rounds only
Concealed, closed-front cover garment
22 hits
String 1: 10.98 clean (had a failure to go into battery - tap-racked, and on the tap, the slide went into battery, but I still felt very slow to fix it and get back on target and shooting.)
String 2: 8.71 - 2
Total time: 19.69
Score: 1.12

I had an unexpected problem with vision on this drill. I found a lot of visual confusion in the target when I focused my vision on the front sight. The circles turned into this messy mass of double-visioned thick curved black lines. I think this was a product of the distance still allowing me to see the circles pretty glaringly even though I was focused on the sights, and the circles being close together, but i am not sure.

Great scores on yours Todd!

ToddG
11-10-2011, 06:02 PM
Did this drill a few times yesterday, but then realized I did it wrong (shot the circles in the wrong order.)

Did you, by chance, shoot it 1-2-3-6-5-4?


Great scores on yours Todd!

Thanks! I'm beginning to think that averaging 75k rounds per year is helping my shooting.

Mr_White
11-10-2011, 06:21 PM
Did you, by chance, shoot it 1-2-3-6-5-4?



Thanks! I'm beginning to think that averaging 75k rounds per year is helping my shooting.

Yes, 1-2-3-6-5-4 is exactly what I did.

Seriously, what good shooting you do Todd. The consistency and control you show is truly great, and are the standout qualities of your shooting that I most admire. This particular DotW really showed your level of precision at speed. I think that is a truly awesome thing to have hooked up in your life, to be able to shoot, train, and teach as much as you do. 75k/year! I am currently at about 18k per year average. Trying to push that up to 24k. Plus, a whole effing lot of dry practice.

I really enjoyed the numerical comparisons this drill allows between different shooting intentions.

ToddG
11-10-2011, 06:30 PM
Yes, 1-2-3-6-5-4 is exactly what I did.

So not to bust on you, but JV and I were at the range last night and I told him that the whole reason I specified an order was because otherwise I knew you (you, personally, OrigamiAK) would shoot it 1-2-3-6-5-4 to get the fastest possible time. :cool:


Seriously, what good shooting you do Todd.

I do genuinely appreciate that. I've been extremely fortunate to have great teachers, great partners, and great jobs that have all allowed me to turn a hobby into a profession without losing the joy of being a hobby.

Mr_White
11-10-2011, 06:55 PM
So not to bust on you, but JV and I were at the range last night and I told him that the whole reason I specified an order was because otherwise I knew you (you, personally, OrigamiAK) would shoot it 1-2-3-6-5-4 to get the fastest possible time. :cool:



I do genuinely appreciate that. I've been extremely fortunate to have great teachers, great partners, and great jobs that have all allowed me to turn a hobby into a profession without losing the joy of being a hobby.

:) Ha, you're right, I would have shot it in that order, both out of a recognition of a slight increase in transition efficiency, but also because it just felt much more natural to shoot it that way, which is why I think I did it that way yesterday, having fuzzed over the correct order when I read the instructions but still remembering to start with circle 1. As long as the rules are the same for everyone it's perfectly fair. I think the order probably makes only a small difference.

I thought the reason you specified 1-2-3-4-5-6, repeat, was because it made it more like a typewriter.

Actually, now that I reflect on it more, I think that the most advantageous order for me would be 4-5-6-3-2-1, so I could have a transition up rather than a transition down.

Given the specific discussions I've participated in here on P-F.com, I can certainly understand how I appear to be extremely speed-focused. That's been true for about the last eighteen months, since I switched to AIWB and discovered how fast an AIWB draw can be. And I promptly got sucked deep into the timer. I think it's been worth it because of the huge speed gains I've made. Before that, I did relatively little work with the timer, and focused on being 'tactical.' Balance and tightness at speed is the thing I need to work on now.

But I find balance through extremes, so this all makes sense for me.

ToddG
11-10-2011, 07:24 PM
balance through extremes

Somewhere, there is a gun or training company that needs to use that as their corporate slogan!

PPGMD
11-10-2011, 07:46 PM
I apologize for the crappy pictures. Cell phone camera, back lighting, et al.

First Run
Forward: 13.12 - Clean
Backward: 11.97 - 1 Out
Score: 0.92
http://www.lazyeights.net/Avion/MiscGunPics/Target_Pics/Typewriter_Run1_11-10-2011.jpg

Second Run
Forward: 11.39 - 2 Out
Backward: 10.12 - 1 Out
Score: 0.98
http://www.lazyeights.net/Avion/MiscGunPics/Target_Pics/Typewriter_Run2_11-10-2011.jpg

Equipment:
M&P 9 Full Size #2 - 17 rounds (aka non-neutered magazines)
Trijicon HD
Concealed using IDPA equipment

Prdator
11-10-2011, 08:04 PM
:)
Actually, now that I reflect on it more, I think that the most advantageous order for me would be 4-5-6-3-2-1, so I could have a transition up rather than a transition down.

This!!!

I plan to run this drill tomorrow so we'll see how it works out.

Slavex
11-10-2011, 08:19 PM
ran this as my first shots fired tonight at practice.
Gear used;
CZ Shadow with red FO front sight black rear
Bladetech DOH open top holster
DAA aluminum mag pouches
No cover garment (yeah yeah whatever)
Reload after 6 rounds due to stupid Canadian laws

First pass 8.32 clean. Slowwwww reload
Second pass 7.10 Clean Better reload but slower draw
260
Total tome 15.42 so 24 / 15.42= 1.556402
I'm happy with that for a cold drill. Will do again this weekend at class.

Pic when I get home.

willowofwisp
11-10-2011, 09:48 PM
I ran this today after first shooting a PPC match with my PPC gear (I finally shot a 300/28x!). I then put my normal carry gear on and ran the drill.

Gear:: M&P 9c with trijicon HD sights and apex FSS, all carried in a raven phantom and single mag carrier.

Stage 1: 10.1 -1
Stage2: 11.9-2

Total score: 21/22= 0.95

Target:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6118/6332935025_db4d10a2c3_z.jpg

ToddG
11-10-2011, 10:28 PM
Second pass 7.10 Clean

7.10 including a reload and all hits? Dude, if Superman and Wonder Woman had a baby, it would go to you to learn how to shoot.

Slavex
11-10-2011, 10:54 PM
1.45 reload on the second pass made a huge difference.

zml342
11-11-2011, 01:45 PM
I actually got a chance to shoot this drill today. It showed a lot of flaws in my shooting.

Gun: P30 V3 (15 round mag)
Ran it concealed (AIWB under an untucked polo)
String 1: 10.49 (-4)
String 2: 10.22 (-6)
Score: 14/20.71 = .67

I could tell that my grip was slipping on the first string, which was evident by the -4. Interestingly, I thought I had done well on the second string, but come to find that I did horrible. Once again this proves that I need to slow down in order to get hits.

st34
11-11-2011, 06:17 PM
Sig P226R DAK (with light)
Winchester Super Unleaded 147gr 9mm
15 round magazines
Safariland SLS/ALS Duty Holster (hip)

1st Attempt

13.42 (clean)
13.14 (-4)

26.56 - 20/24
.753
http://tinypic.com/r/1441u2w/5

2nd Attempt

11.24 (-1)
10.30 (-4)

21.54 - 19/24
.882
http://tinypic.com/r/n3vc/5

http://tinypic.com/r/9kpj53/5

CCT125US
11-11-2011, 06:32 PM
HK P30 V3
15rd
IWB Crossbreed Super Tuck
Open front vest

Not bad, but I dropped shot #7 on the transition from dot 6 to 1. Slowed down on the second string and got all hits

String #1 12.07 -1
String #2 12.68 -0

23hits / 24.75sec= .9292
http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/CCT125US/Mobile%20Uploads/1111111712.jpg

LOKNLOD
11-11-2011, 06:47 PM
I made it to the range for the first time in 3 months today, so I finally get to participate!

This drill was more challenging than I expected (didn't help that I was shaking off a lot of rust today), and it was also addictive. 2" dots are my nemesis.

One funny thing was that on my very first run both times were exactly the same. I thought the timer screwed up, but the splits had changed.

HK P30 LEM
From concealment under t-shirt, from CCC Shaggy
Mags loaded w/ 12 rounds
String 1 15.63, 9 hits
String 2 13.35, 10 hits

Total 28.98 sec, 19 hits
19/28.98 = 0.656

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/Tracking/th_803f0256.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/Tracking/?action=view&current=803f0256.jpg)

Ifightcrime
11-12-2011, 11:12 AM
I tried this drill several times this week, but failed to run it correctly until yesterday.:(

Glock 35 w/ light
Safariland SLS on Duty rig

1st run: 16.31 w/ 9 hits
2nd run: 16.45 w/ 9 hits

Total: 18/ 32.76 = .549


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--0VrbzK2HSo/Tr3zbAxjXBI/AAAAAAAAGVk/3H_vlERdLq0/s640/IMG_20111111_143634.jpg

Stay Sharp & Stay Safe!

IFC

JV_
11-12-2011, 03:18 PM
Glock 17 EXO
CCC Shaggy
Untucked Polo

1st Run: 8.13 Clean
2nd Run: 10.35 -1

23/18.48 = 1.24

On the 2nd run, I had a ~1.5 second pause when I realized I need to go from 6 to 1 again. *Sigh* .... it's always something.

JConn
11-12-2011, 03:24 PM
Ran this yesterday at class. I believe it was two 13.something runs with one miss each. Target got lost. I will try to run it again before Monday night. I believe the score was something near .81

Glock 19 iwb raven holster strong side
Closed front concealment garment

jcarmody
11-12-2011, 07:56 PM
Springfield XDm (4.5" bbl, 12 rounds in the magazine) in a Crossbreed SuperTuck at 3 o'clock under a sweatshirt

Forward: 14.21, 6X
Reverse: 14.29, 9X
Total: 15/28.50 = .526

JMS
11-12-2011, 08:44 PM
M&P9 w/SF X200 and DG-12
PSS holster, OWB @ 3
Open-front Arc'teryx jacket

1st string: 11.33, -1
2nd string: 10.5, clean

23/21.83 = 1.05
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8392/img00170201111121113.jpg

Prdator
11-12-2011, 10:05 PM
Did this drill today and just screwed it up all the way around...

Glock 34 gen 4,
AIWB ( Keepers Kydex) closed front cover.
First round
12.27 -8, Yea.....
Second 9.37 clean.
score .73

Ill try and do this agin tomorrow and see if I can do it right.

NickDrak
11-13-2011, 03:29 AM
First attempt:
Hits: 17 Total time: 24.61 = 0.70
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7495/20111111185022.jpg



Second attempt:
Hits: 24 Total time: 38.52 = 0.62
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5935/20111111185758.jpg

*Shooting my Gen4 G17 from a Blade-Tech Nano concealed (AIWB) under an untucked polo. Loaded two mags with 12rds each to shoot the drill.

I really do dig this drill. I will definitely be running this one again.

st34
11-13-2011, 05:57 AM
Here's my pics now - finally figured out how to add them.



http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i449/st344/DSCN1125-2.jpg

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i449/st344/DSCN1126-2.jpg

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i449/st344/DSCN1129-2.jpg

Argus
11-13-2011, 05:16 PM
My usual range has fixed target stands with the shortest distance being 7 yards, so that's where I shot this drill.

Glock 19 IWB (Comp-Tac Infidel) from concealment (closed front shirt)

First round:
19.17 -3

Second round
17.45 -6 (yeesh)

Score 0.41

I like this drill. I'll have to try it again next time I'm at an indoor range where I can actually shoot it at 5 yards (and after I've had some time to work on the damn flinch that seems to have resurfaced recently).

BaiHu
11-13-2011, 05:39 PM
Got obsessed with FAST this week (I'm a virgin, but my best clean times are getting near 7's and high 6's with P30L and HK45), so I only ran this drill once and it's a tough one.
Here are my horrible results:
HKP30L (stock)
15 rd capacity
Comptac Holster from concealment (long shirt)
1st string: 16.7 and 3 misses
2nd string: 13.7 and 4 misses
Score: 0.559

Matt O
11-13-2011, 07:25 PM
I did absolutely horrible on my run through this drill, enough so that I just moved on to other stuff and didn't really revisit it during today's range session. I was mentally stuck between trying to push speed and also being careful about getting hits, and I somehow managed to achieve neither.

Glock 17; magazines loaded to 12 rounds.

10+10 hits; 20.99 + 17.24 = 0.52. Ouch.

BaiHu
11-13-2011, 11:00 PM
LOL Matt-o, I felt similarly about this drill. It wasn't my focus and I couldn't begin to figure out what I wanted to focus on when I saw my horrific results, so I moved on with my tail between my legs until I return I'll be in the corner licking my wounds.

ToddG
11-14-2011, 10:06 AM
Shot this four times over the weekend, all with my G17 test gun and 17rd mags from concealment.

Saturday, run #1
8.40 clean, 7.53 minus 2, score: 1.38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKZ79SS1JPI

Saturday, run #2
6.28 minus 4, 6.33 minus 2, score: 1.43


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmv70yD4mjA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J65RDjyx_4Y

Sunday, run #1
14.20 total time clean, score: 1.69

Sunday, run #2
4.91 minus 4, 4.79 minus 4, score: 1.86

krazykiddjoe
11-14-2011, 12:14 PM
Horrible Horrible.... Worked on my reload with the 1-R-2 drill for a bit b4 this and some rifle work.... (thank God, I run a rifle better than pistol as of lately).

I ran this drill with Glock 19/X300, BigDot, reduced/stippled with Glock 17 mags, Loaded 17. Ammo Remington 115gr. Shot out of my Duty Rig. Running Safariland 6280, comp-tac open top mag pouches.


String one
13.63 -3

String two :-(

17.78 -7 with a malfunction as well

14 hits/31.41= .44....

Honestly after the sour sixteen last week I would have been happy with a .65 or better run. I am ordering sights next week when I get paid.... As much as I love the big dots they are not working for me in practice.... I want to see better results and plan to go back to Straight 8's as are on my duty gun.
Got some work to do. ToddG, You ever teach in NC...?

DonovanM
11-14-2011, 12:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J65RDjyx_4Y

Nice shot of the Gadget in action.

Simms65
11-14-2011, 12:51 PM
Finally got a chance to do a DOTW!

Gear:
Ruger SR9 w/ghost connector and Ameriglo 3 dot sights, Simply rugged OWB concealed under a fleece jacket.

String one: 13.95 seconds, 4 dropped shots.
String two: 13.65 seconds, 1 dropped shot.

Total score: .69

http://www.pbase.com/image/139633647.jpg

Mr_White
11-14-2011, 02:08 PM
Saturday, run #1
8.40 clean, 7.53 minus 2, score: 1.38


Sunday, run #1
14.20 total time clean, score: 1.69


So, Todd, we've had the ongoing discussion in the Speed vs. Accuracy thread, and I know we have our differences on this issue as well as similarities, and I am not trying to rehash what we've already discussed, but, I take note of your above two runs of the Typewriter and I think those two runs illustrate my perspective very well.

Looking at Saturday run #1, your total time was 15.93 seconds, but with two misses. So, standard speed/accuracy evaluation would say that you should slow down until you don't miss.

But that doesn't jive with Sunday run #1, which you shot clean in less time.

So, what does that do, if anything, to the standard evaluative heuristic of "since you have misses you should slow down"? (I know that that is often true, I just contend that it isn't always or necessarily true.)

My interpretation of these two of your scores on the Typewriter, is that you simply did it better on the Sunday run, and since you didn't have to slow down to do better on the Sunday run, and actually sped up, the Saturday run didn't necessarily suffer from going to fast, but rather from not doing it as well..

This is why I am attached to the ideal of simply going faster and doing better.

I hope you don't mind this comment here, instead of the Speed vs. Accuracy thread. I put it here because it's specifically related to these two scores on the Typewriter.

TCinVA
11-14-2011, 03:00 PM
Typewriter run 1 (http://youtu.be/ZB5MJQa9Zp0)

Obviously not spectacular. I think the math ended up being something like a .5 on that one. My second run was better...but primarily because I went faster. I ended up with a .72 (IIRC) on the second run.

ToddG
11-14-2011, 03:02 PM
That first Sunday run wasn't me trying to go at a pace where I'd get all my hits. Things just worked out that way, probably in no small part due to the 1,800 or so rounds of shooting I'd done in the preceding 36 hours.

My point has been and continues to be: if you cannot do it slower, you cannot do it faster. If you're missing a third of your shots with a 15-second Typewriter run, saying, "I'm going to try for 12 seconds and hope for the best!" is not the answer.

Mr_White
11-14-2011, 04:30 PM
My replies in red:


1,800 or so rounds of shooting I'd done in the preceding 36 hours. = sweet effing diggity!

My point has been and continues to be: if you cannot do it slower, you cannot do it faster. If you're missing a third of your shots with a 15-second Typewriter run, saying, "I'm going to try for 12 seconds and hope for the best!" is not the answer.
When stated that way, with those numbers as examples, I agree. When the numbers are closer/less pronounced (one miss, ~10% misses, etc.), that's when I am Secretary Not Sure.

fuse
11-14-2011, 11:15 PM
shot this last Wednesday, misplaced and just found the index card I wrote everything down on.

first string 17.79 -4

second string 18.29 -2

18 / 36.08 = .50

pretty awful.

I ran it again at the veterans day clinic, but didn't write down the exact score. however, I know I was -2 on each string for a score of 20, and 1 time was 15.xx and another was 17.xx. for a score of somewhere around .60.

I enjoyed this drill, and will be adding it to the repertoire.

EmanP
11-14-2011, 11:55 PM
Gen 3 G17, concealment with OWB holster, 12 rounds a magazine
Run 1 8.89 - 1 miss
Run 2 8.69 - 1 miss
Total 17.58 - 2 missed
22/17.58 = 1.25

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg849/scaled.php?server=849&filename=2ndtime.jpg&res=medium

ToddG
11-15-2011, 08:58 AM
Week 6 is now CLOSED.

Week 7 has been posted (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2218-Week-7-3x5-Speed-Push).