Aftermarket Glock Barrel - Wilson vs. KKM vs. Bar-Sto

[guymontag]

Presume you have an old Gen. II Glock that you finally got extracting and ejecting correctly. It's not as accurate as your Gen. III or Gen. IV Glock experiences. Which barrel would you buy? Bar-Sto, KKM, or Wilson?

Tigerswan is Wilson Combat?
Roland, who I've barely heard of but seems well regarded is KKM?
Team Glock @ Bianchi is KKM?
Kyle Defoor is KKM?

In the end, this is the Internet and I've already made my choice and will buy a Lone Wolf - I just want to know what the hive mind thinks. :P

[JCS]

S3f seems pretty popular as well.


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[CS Tactical]

I'd say pay extra and have it fitted regardless of which one you choose. My drop in experience with Gen 4 Glocks have not made any noticeable improvements, though the guns tested already shoot pretty well which is 3-4" or under at 25 yards unsupported with good ammo.

[JBP55]

I would sell the old Gen 2 and buy a new Gen 4.

[guymontag]

I would sell the old Gen 2 and buy a new Gen 4.

Therein lies the rub, it's my father's old duty weapon so it has a semblance of importance to me. Otherwise...

[JBP55]

Therein lies the rub, it's my father's old duty weapon so it has a semblance of importance to me. Otherwise...

I understand. I tried KKM, Stormlake, Wilson and LWD prior to going all Gen 4. IMO the best bang for the buck is a LWD barrel but I had slightly better accuracy with the KKM barrels.

[Mitch]

Therein lies the rub, it's my father's old duty weapon so it has a semblance of importance to me. Otherwise...

If that's the case I'd leave it as is and appreciate it for what it is. Save up for a gen 4 if you want a more accurate glock.

That being said, if you want to play with it I had a Gen 2 glock 19 with a kkm drop in barrel. 4.2 grains of titegroup, 124 grain hornady fmj with a Winchester primer was stupid accurate out of that barrel in that gun.


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[okie john]

I had good luck with a couple of Wilson barrels, but both were fitted. I think that matters more than the barrel itself.


Okie John

[psalms144.1]

I'm in the "leave it the way it is" camp, and save up for a new Gen4 for a shooter. The cost of a fitted barrel is going to be darned near half the price of a new GLOCK anyway.

In my VERY limited experience of one barrel in one pistol, I found exactly ZERO accuracy increase when I put a drop in KKM into my Gen4 G19. The only difference I experienced was an immediate and significant increase in malfunctions (failures to feed) using issued factory-loaded 147gr JHP.

[okie john]

The cost of a fitted barrel is going to be darned near half the price of a new GLOCK anyway.

Or more if you go BarSto.


Okie John

[HopetonBrown]

I have KKM and S3F barrels. I don't see any difference at 25, I hope I will at 50 but haven't had the chance.

[BWT]

I have KKM and S3F barrels. I don't see any difference at 25, I hope I will at 50 but haven't had the chance.

Between the two aftermarket manufacturers or the barrels versus OEM?

I only ask because of the word hope in your statement.

God Bless,

Brandon

[jondoe297]

I have an S3F barrel in my Gen4 G17. At closer ranges there is no increase in accuracy worth talking about. At 25, I have noticed better groupings. It isn't drastic, but it's noticeable. The gun has not malfunctioned with the barrel in there, on any ammunition that I've run through it, which is a combination of various wallyworld ball ammo, M855, and 147gr HST and Ranger-T.

[voodoo_man]

I've got a few aftermarket barrels...

http://i.imgur.com/9FO6Yeo.jpg

S3F, Barsto, Silencerco and now have a Gemtech G17 barrel, only the barsto isn't threaded. I don't have any KKM barrels though I would like to do a roland special type eventually.

I run 200 drills fairly regularly, as that is my "Cold standard" drill at the range and I record the scores with what guns/barrels/ammo I use to do the drill that day, and they always differ, for data points...

S3F barrel has shown visibly improved accuracy with cheap ammo, I'd say somewhere in the area of 7-15% depending on how I perform, Gen4 G19.

Barsto barrel is pretty good to go, performs consistently with all ranges of ammo, I'd say it's overall accuracy potential is outside my ability. I can shoot 3ish inch groups at 25 yards with the Gen3 G19 its attached to with good ammo, I am sure it can do better - I've seen Tom Kier shoot a sub 2 inch group (maybe even sub 1.5") at 25 yards with a G34 with a barsto.

The silenerco is in my G17L (its threaded) - its very accurate, but that may be because of the G17L being pretty accurate.

Gemtech is in my G17 with an RMR, threaded, its pretty accurate in that I've shot about a 2-3inch group with winchester white box (10 rounds free style 25 yards) fairly easily (thanks RMR). I don't know who makes the barrel for Gemtech though, I don't believe they are made in house (I'll find out) and its a pretty decent barrel overall in that out of the box I shot a 180ish, 200 drill with my RMR'd G17 and that's without zero'ing anything.

[LtDave]

I had good luck with a couple of Wilson barrels, but both were fitted. I think that matters more than the barrel itself.


Okie John
My experience as well except mine were drop ins for a G17 and G34. Significant accuracy improvement with both.

[voodoo_man]

forgot to add, I had to have the barsto fitted, rest were drop in.

[PD Sgt.]

I have used both Wilson and KKM drop in barrels in my Glocks. Anecdotally I have had good results with both (I used the Wilsons in 9mm and the KKMs in .40 and 10mm) so they were never compared head to head against each other. I would say I saw about a 1/4 to 1/3 improvement in group size with the Wilson in Gen2 or 3 pistols. One of my G4 19s has a Wilson barrel (I found myself with one extra) but I have not really noted any difference over stock.

[crossrifles]

Don't waste your money on a aftermarket barrel, unless you plan to have it fit to the gun. Drop in barrels offer minimal improvements if any. Just my opinion, I'd buy a stock barrel from Brownells and drive on.

[okie john]

I have KKM and S3F barrels. I don't see any difference at 25, I hope I will at 50 but haven't had the chance.

Differences should be a lot more obvious beyond 25 yards.


Okie John

[LtDave]

Don't waste your money on a aftermarket barrel, unless you plan to have it fit to the gun. Drop in barrels offer minimal improvements if any. Just my opinion, I'd buy a stock barrel from Brownells and drive on.

Not my experience with Wilson drop in 9mm in a G17. Factory barrel would shoot 1 handload under 2" at 20 yards off the bench. One Source Tactical (Suarez) threaded barrel shot 2 loads under 2". Same gun with dropin Wilson barrel shoots 11 handloads under 2". Best groups with OST and factory barrels were 1.5". Best group with Wilson is 1.0".

[Matt O]

I have several after-market barrels. I bought them originally chasing accuracy gains and now keep them around more to be able to shoot non-jacketed ammo. I have a semi-fit bar-sto which I had to do minor fitting on in one G17 RTF and a WC drop-in which required no fitting in another G17 RTF. Both are slightly more accurate than my other gen 3 guns, but aren't any more accurate, for me, than my gen 4 G17. If all I planned to do was shoot factory ammo, I'd just buy a gen 4 with a solid lock-up and drive on.

[HopetonBrown]

Between the two aftermarket manufacturers or the barrels versus OEM?

I only ask because of the word hope in your statement.



Sorry, should have been more clear. I'm not seeing a difference between the OEM barrels and my aftermarket ones. But I haven't been very diligent with my record keeping as voodoo_man. I just shoot 6 or 10 round groups at 25 and try to score 50/60 or 90/100.

[Jim Watson]

It's not as accurate as your Gen. III

Can you put a number to that?
Percent larger or inches.
If it weren't keyholing, and if I had that Gen III for serious shooting, I would not bother.

[guymontag]

Thanks all for the input, observations and opinions!


I would say I saw about a 1/4 to 1/3 improvement in group size with the Wilson in Gen2 or 3 pistols. One of my G4 19s has a Wilson barrel (I found myself with one extra) but I have not really noted any difference over stock.

Awesome, that's what I'm hoping for my Gen II, I've heard aftermarket barrels show a better accuracy differential in the earlier models. Thanks PD!


Not my experience with Wilson drop in 9mm in a G17. Factory barrel would shoot 1 handload under 2" at 20 yards off the bench. One Source Tactical (Suarez) threaded barrel shot 2 loads under 2". Same gun with dropin Wilson barrel shoots 11 handloads under 2". Best groups with OST and factory barrels were 1.5". Best group with Wilson is 1.0".

I have Speer Gold Dot, some handloads, and of course the cheaper factory ammo I like to shoot, so that sounds like a really positive review to me, thanks LtDave!

As for keeping it stock, it's been stock for most of my life. It's been a stovepiping inaccurate piece of Austrian plastic for most of that time as well. An HRED fixed the extraction/ejection, and it has new sights and a new trigger so I'll test the accuracy a bit more thoroughly with the new setup. I have a beater G4 G34, but I want to shoot this G17 into the ground if possible. What did Clint Smith say, "I want my children to say 'look at this old shot out pistol', as opposed to 'look at this pristine safe queen'? :cool:

I'm looking most into the Wilson and KKM at the moment and I've contacted both companies to see if they offer oversized "gunsmith" barrels as opposed to the drop-in models, as I agree that a hand-fitted option would be optimal. If it doesn't work out as planned at least the money I waste on the barrel wasn't wasted on FireClean instead. :p

P.S. Jim Watson, I would equate it to the G4 G34 keeping them mostly in the black on a B8 on a good day, and the G2 G17 keeping them on the printable 8.5x11... It makes me want to go back to my Walther's and CZ's ha. :p :cool:

[guymontag]

P.P.S. I've read of a replacement locking block showing an increase in accuracy in a Glock as well, has anyone heard of this too?! I don't mind spending $30 on a new locking block for a two decade old pistol...

[JBP55]

P.P.S. I've read of a replacement locking block showing an increase in accuracy in a Glock as well, has anyone heard of this too?! I don't mind spending $30 on a new locking block for a two decade old pistol...

It may help your old Glock, it did nothing for a Gen 4 G17.

[LittleLebowski]

I need an aftermarket threaded barrel.

[Matt O]

I need an aftermarket threaded barrel.

KKM will be your huckleberry.

[okie john]

I've posted this information in a couple of other threads around here, but it addresses several of the issues that you've brought up.


A good aftermarket barrel that has been properly fitted can definitely cut group sizes in Glock pistols.

I have two G17's with Wilson barrels. TigerSwan fitted one, I did the other myself. I also had a G22 with a Wilson barrel that required no fitting. Both G17's show about 30% reduction in group sizes at 25 yards and beyond. The G22 was actually worse, but I write that off to the fact that the barrel didn't require fitting. I'd try another Wilson G22 barrel in a heartbeat if I still had any interest in the 40 S&W cartridge.

Glocks are plenty accurate for most uses, but there are lots of ways to make them more accurate that are less expensive than an aftermarket barrel, and I'd do most of them before I'd drop coin on an aftermarket barrel. In no particular order:

Increase your physical strength. I saw a lot of improvement from hitting the gym with a focus on increasing core strength, grip strength, and upper body strength--basically everything from your waist all the way out to your fingertips.
Make sure that you're nailing the fundamentals: stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger control, and follow through.
Test ammo with your OEM barrel--a lot of FMJ practice ammo is just not accurate. Finding a load that shoots well in your pistol can cut groups in half.
Improve your trigger by testing different combinations of springs and connectors. Your pistol has probably been fired enough that the 25-cent trigger job won't improve it much, but make sure to keep it properly cleaned and lubricated, especially the fire control parts. I do this about every thousand rounds.
Make sure that you have good sights and that they're properly zeroed. This deserves its own thread, which is why you'll find several of them here and on other boards.

Each of these measures can help shrink your groups by several percentage points, and the increments definitely add up. But you won't notice the changes unless you spend a lot of time shooting at 25 yards and beyond.

I believe that the fit between the locking block and the barrel matters, and that a big part of fitting a barrel involves making sure that this fit is correct. That said, I have no idea how to quantify it. Just swapping out locking blocks without knowing what you're looking for in the new one may improve groups or it may make them worse.

Let me know if you have questions.


Okie John

[guymontag]

Thanks for that Okie! I remember reading it when you first posted it - great information. As you said, I've got new sights on it, a smoother trigger, and extraction that won't make me flinch while trying to group shoot. Also been hitting the gym and will be doing some (gentle) grip work soon enough!

Found another good thread too:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?10849-Anyone-fit-a-Wilson-Combat-barrel-to-a-Glock

I emailed Wilson but it's the weekend, does anyone know if they went the route of KKM and stopped selling a gunsmith fit barrel?!

[JHC]

Differences should be a lot more obvious beyond 25 yards.


Okie John

+1 some improvement at 25, big at 50.

[LOKNLOD]

I need an aftermarket threaded barrel.

As do I, for a G19.
Gemtech - $160 (http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/GLOCK-Aftermarket-Threaded-Barrels-19p57.htm)
Wilson - $259 (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Match-Grade-Barrel-9mm-for-Glock-19-472-Threaded-1_2-28-Stainless/productinfo/768/)
KKM - $230 (https://www.kkmprecision.com/shopping-cart/?func=order&frompage=cat&cat=G)
Bar-Sto - $315 (https://www.barsto.com/category_main.cfm?ID=G19&cco=30)
SF3 - $165-225 dependent on blingery level (https://s3fsolutions.com/product/s3fsolutions-glock-19-drop-in-match-grade-barrel/) (What's the advantage of fluting? Still looks like your best bet for the gold nitride bang-bling...)
Silencerco - $226 (https://silencerco.com/silencers/threaded-barrels/#tab-3)
Storm Lake - $195 at Glockmeister (more at Brownells, but available in black finish there?) (http://www.glockmeister.com/Storm-Lake-G19-472-Threaded-Barrel-1_2-28/productinfo/34009/)

[JCS]

As do I, for a G19.
Gemtech - $160 (http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/GLOCK-Aftermarket-Threaded-Barrels-19p57.htm)
Wilson - $259 (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Match-Grade-Barrel-9mm-for-Glock-19-472-Threaded-1_2-28-Stainless/productinfo/768/)
KKM - $230 (https://www.kkmprecision.com/shopping-cart/?func=order&frompage=cat&cat=G)
Bar-Sto - $315 (https://www.barsto.com/category_main.cfm?ID=G19&cco=30)
SF3 - $165-225 dependent on blingery level (https://s3fsolutions.com/product/s3fsolutions-glock-19-drop-in-match-grade-barrel/) (What's the advantage of fluting? Still looks like your best bet for the gold nitride bang-bling...)
Silencerco - $226 (https://silencerco.com/silencers/threaded-barrels/#tab-3)
Storm Lake - $195 at Glockmeister (more at Brownells, but available in black finish there?) (http://www.glockmeister.com/Storm-Lake-G19-472-Threaded-Barrel-1_2-28/productinfo/34009/)

I asked s3f what the purpose of their fluting is and if it offers any advantages. Their reply, "sex appeal". That's exactly what they said, I'm not paraphrasing.


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[BWT]

I have several after-market barrels. I bought them originally chasing accuracy gains and now keep them around more to be able to shoot non-jacketed ammo. I have a semi-fit bar-sto which I had to do minor fitting on in one G17 RTF and a WC drop-in which required no fitting in another G17 RTF. Both are slightly more accurate than my other gen 3 guns, but aren't any more accurate, for me, than my gen 4 G17. If all I planned to do was shoot factory ammo, I'd just buy a gen 4 with a solid lock-up and drive on.

Thanks, this is exactly the type of information I was looking for.

God Bless,

Brandon

ETA:

Also helpful


I've posted this information in a couple of other threads around here, but it addresses several of the issues that you've brought up

I think I need to follow your other advise and just get back to shooting regularly before I modify the gun.

However, I am interested in a more accurate Glock.

[LOKNLOD]

I asked s3f what the purpose of their fluting is and if it offers any advantages. Their reply, "sex appeal". That's exactly what they said, I'm not paraphrasing.

I figured as much.

[EVP]

I asked s3f what the purpose of their fluting is and if it offers any advantages. Their reply, "sex appeal". That's exactly what they said, I'm not paraphrasing.


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Now I would not put a s3f barrel in a glock for a variety of reasons but at least they are honest and don't try to pass it off a "increased reliability and barrel cooling during dynamic high threat situations"

Seems they at least know the type Instagram crowd they are going for.

If I were to do a barrel in a Glock I would go all the way and get a fitted Bar-sto. Nothing else would really appeal to me.


I would not really mess with aftermarket barrels in gen 4s, everytime I start thinking about the cost I think I could just buy a new g19 or 17.

[DocGKR]

We have seen measurable increases in accuracy and consistency when using drop-in KKM barrels in gen 3 Glocks.

[HopetonBrown]

Now I would not put a s3f barrel in a glock for a variety of reasons

Could you list them?

[BWT]

We have seen measurable increases in accuracy and consistency when using drop-in KKM barrels in gen 3 Glocks.

This may or may not be something you have an answer to because it doesn't pertain to a gen 3 glock and I believe that's where most of your testing has been (at least recently).

Have you noticed a perceivable difference in models such as Glock Gen 4 versus Glock Gen 3s with KKM barrels?

Only reason I ask it seemed that the common perception was the there is an existing improvement in accuracy going from Gen 3 to Gen 4.

I was wondering if there was still a remarkable difference in the context of a gen 4 Glock going to a KKM.

I also realize I've hijacked a thread due to my own interests; so I'll throttle back and take it to PM if need be.

Thanks and God Bless,

Brandon

[Matt O]

Thanks, this is exactly the type of information I was looking for.

God Bless,

Brandon

ETA:

Also helpful



I think I need to follow your other advise and just get back to shooting regularly before I modify the gun.

However, I am interested in a more accurate Glock.

An example (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3072-Matt-O-s-Training-Journal&p=91560&viewfull=1#post91560) of how my Gen 4's shoot with regular 124 gr Aguila. The flyers are all me.

[LOKNLOD]

I was wondering if there was still a remarkable difference in the context of a gen 4 Glock going to a KKM.

I also realize I've hijacked a thread due to my own interests; so I'll throttle back and take it to PM if need be.

Thanks and God Bless,

Brandon

It's relevant, and while my desire is more to get a threaded barrel for use with a suppressor on my Gen4, at worst I'd like to maintain the level of accuracy and at best I'd like to have more to work with (I'm not maximizing the potential yet, but I'm progressing).

[okie john]

This may or may not be something you have an answer to because it doesn't pertain to a gen 3 glock and I believe that's where most of your testing has been (at least recently).

Have you noticed a perceivable difference in models such as Glock Gen 4 versus Glock Gen 3s with KKM barrels?

Only reason I ask it seemed that the common perception was the there is an existing improvement in accuracy going from Gen 3 to Gen 4.

I was wondering if there was still a remarkable difference in the context of a gen 4 Glock going to a KKM.

I also realize I've hijacked a thread due to my own interests; so I'll throttle back and take it to PM if need be.

Thanks and God Bless,

Brandon

As I understand it, the people who have tried aftermarket barrels in Gen4 guns have reported little or no improvement in accuracy. Here's what I've seen:

Using fitted Wilson barrels in two Gen3 G17s shrank groups by about 30% with a variety of loads at ranges beyond 25 yards. With selected hand loads, the difference is more like 50%.
The one Gen4 G19 and one Gen4 G17 that I have tested are about as accurate as the Gen3 guns with Wilson barrels. Groups of 1.5" and smaller at 25 yards are not uncommon with these guns and the loads they prefer.
The G43 is almost as accurate as its bigger brothers, but the stock trigger makes it harder to shoot well.
All three of my Gen4 guns (G17, G17, G43) show such a preference for 147-grain loads that I no longer shoot other bullet weights in them at ranges past 25 yards.
One Gen3 G17 with a Wilson barrel seems to have trouble stabilizing a single 147-grain load from The List. This may be due to the rate of twist, but I haven't done enough tests to comment on it further. That load shoots very well in other OEM Glock barrels.



Okie John

[GJM]

My experience more or less tracks Okie John's, especially as regards how well the OEM Gen 4 guns shoot. I think the jury is out as to whether the change is barrel, RSA or something else, since to my knowledge there is no difference in Gen 4 and Gen 3 barrels.

Where my experience is different, is how well Speer Gold Dot 124+P shoots in my Gen 4 pistols, and for practice how good the Federal American Eagle 124 ball shoots. I carry that Speer Gold Dot load, and shoot either 124 AE ball or Berry's 124 grain reloads for practice and competition. Not enough 147 experience in the Gen 4 pistols to form an opinion. Also, I have found Lawman 115 to be exceptionally accurate in multiple Gen 3 17 pistols.

[Nephrology]

My experience more or less tracks Okie John's, especially as regards how well the OEM Gen 4 guns shoot. I think the jury is out as to whether the change is barrel, RSA or something else, since to my knowledge there is no difference in Gen 4 and Gen 3 barrels.

Where my experience is different, is how well Speer Gold Dot 124+P shoots in my Gen 4 pistols, and for practice how good the Federal American Eagle 124 ball shoots. I carry that Speer Gold Dot load, and shoot either 124 AE ball or Berry's 124 grain reloads for practice and competition. Not enough 147 experience in the Gen 4 pistols to form an opinion. Also, I have found Lawman 115 to be exceptionally accurate in multiple Gen 3 17 pistols.

My educated guess is it's a combination of the new RSA and perhaps slightly different barrel lockup geometry. Just in racking the slides on gen3/gen4 guns, it's clear that the gen 3 guns cycle more smoothly and the barrel is physically displaced to a lesser degree. On my Gen 4 pistols, there is a small amount of activation energy required to get the action to unlock, and stiffer resistance to rearward travel for the rest of the cycle. Just a guess.

[JHC]

As I understand it, the people who have tried aftermarket barrels in Gen4 guns have reported little or no improvement in accuracy. Here's what I've seen:

Using fitted Wilson barrels in two Gen3 G17s shrank groups by about 30% with a variety of loads at ranges beyond 25 yards. With selected hand loads, the difference is more like 50%.
The one Gen4 G19 and one Gen4 G17 that I have tested are about as accurate as the Gen3 guns with Wilson barrels. Groups of 1.5" and smaller at 25 yards are not uncommon with these guns and the loads they prefer.
The G43 is almost as accurate as its bigger brothers, but the stock trigger makes it harder to shoot well.
All three of my Gen4 guns (G17, G17, G43) show such a preference for 147-grain loads that I no longer shoot other bullet weights in them at ranges past 25 yards.
One Gen3 G17 with a Wilson barrel seems to have trouble stabilizing a single 147-grain load from The List. This may be due to the rate of twist, but I haven't done enough tests to comment on it further. That load shoots very well in other OEM Glock barrels.



Okie John

Pretty much ditto as far as I know so far. I've only Gen 4 G26s lately so I haven't tried those. But the 30% in Gen 3 19s and 17s at 25 yards seems about right. At 50 I've seen groups go from 8-12" with OEM to like 5" with the KKM barrel. Hence Okie's earlier point about past 25 yards. That's got to be stabilization kicking in at distance.

Now I've re-purchased an early Gen 4 G17 that was superbly accurate back in 2010 with the OEM barrel when new. It's very tight slide to frame. I'll find out soon if the KKM adds anything. I'm hoping it will make it a one incher in my hands. :D

[JCS]

https://youtu.be/eWLcsyUXWDE

What's Yalls thoughts on this video?


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[DocGKR]

As noted above, gen 4 9 mm's have tended to be more accurate than the gen 3's--unlike with gen 3's, we have not seen much if any improvement in accuracy using drop in barrels on gen 4's--however the gen 4's can have some accuracy gain using fitted match barrels.

[HopetonBrown]

I've never made it through one of his videos. But let me guess; he likes it!

https://youtu.be/eWLcsyUXWDE

What's Yalls thoughts on this video?


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[JCS]

I've never made it through one of his videos. But let me guess; he likes it!

Yes, he does some shooting comparison with the oem barrel and the Wilson barrel.


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[CS Tactical]

I've never made it through one of his videos. But let me guess; he likes it!

What's funny is that he addressed his critics by saying that he's picky in regards to what he reviews and tries to avoid products that won't be favorable. Whether that's true or not is up for individuals to interpret.

[guymontag]

BWT, no need to throttle back, we're all here to learn my friend!

[JCS]

Now I would not put a s3f barrel in a glock for a variety of reasons but at least they are honest and don't try to pass it off a "increased reliability and barrel cooling during dynamic high threat situations"

Seems they at least know the type Instagram crowd they are going for.

If I were to do a barrel in a Glock I would go all the way and get a fitted Bar-sto. Nothing else would really appeal to me.


I would not really mess with aftermarket barrels in gen 4s, everytime I start thinking about the cost I think I could just buy a new g19 or 17.

They're taking the Instagram thing way too seriously with their newest offering http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160714/07cd7392ba810915c9b45e95130d65e2.png


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