Week 172: Frank Garcia Dot Drill [Archive]

Mr_White

07-08-2016, 11:33 AM

Week 172: Frank Garcia Dot Drill

Results may be posted until August 8th, 2016.

Designed by: Frank Garcia
Range: 7 yards
Target: Six 2” dots – Download here: http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/6x2in-circles.pdf
Start Position: Hands at sides, facing the target, pistol holstered
Rounds Fired: 36
Par Time: 5 seconds

Start with pistol loaded and holstered. Upon start signal, draw and fire 6 rounds into one dot. Do this for each of the six dots.

Traditionally, this drill is shot from the holster, at 7 yards, with a 5 second par time, and is scored Pass/Fail (36/36 = Pass, not 36/36 = Fail.) Variations are fine if they enable you to participate in the drill.

Suggested variations:

If you aren't allowed to draw from the holster at your live fire facility, then instead start with the gun on the bench with magazine in the magazine well, but chamber empty. Upon start signal, pick up gun, chamber a round, and fire 6 rounds into one dot.

If the time and accuracy standards are unworkable for you, start by moving the target closer. If you are not able to make hits at the 3 yard line, then try doing the drill without a par time.

Concealment is not required, but is certainly optional if you wish to use it.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Equipment used (pistol, holster, optional concealment garment if one was used)
Any variations used (concealment, starting with gun on bench, reduced distance, no par time)
Time and hits for each of the six strings
Total score out of the 36 possible points
Pass or Fail per the original 36/36 standard

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

JCS

07-10-2016, 05:47 PM

My first dotw!

I failed! Big time. Today was my first time to ever train live drawing from a holster. I finally found a public range that allows it.

I scored 25/36 and shot it from 5 yards. I tried to time it but being in a public range it didn't work out. I really rushed it because I didn't want to cheat on the time.

I had a lot of variations but I'm glad I did it no matter how poorly I did! It sets a benchmark for improvement.

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Luke

07-10-2016, 06:10 PM

Good job man! Even at 5 yards that ain't bad. This is one of the hardest drill I think I've ever shot.

I'm looking forward to Gabe and Les's entries. I know Les cleans it at 8 yards like a boss. I'm sure Gabe cleans it WHO.

backtrail540

07-10-2016, 06:52 PM

Gen 3 17 chopped/stippled and a Gen 4 19, both under a polo from a Dark Star Gear Aiwb
3 yds

Gen 3 17
3yds
3.89 -1
3.95 -2
4.63 C
4.06 C
4.1 C
3.77 -2
31/36
Fail

Gen 4 19
3yds
Run 1
4.35 -1
4.21 C
4.18 C
4.43 C
4.15 -1
4.24 C
34/36
Fail

Run 2
4.27 C
4.09 C
3.96 C
4.2 C
4.31 C
4.36 C
36/36
Pass

I knew going in that I couldn't make the standard at 7yds. I figured I would work it as a walk-back as I cleaned it, but that turned out a bit more difficult than I expected. Dots are the bane of my existence!! I was horrible with my chopped 17. Luckily I brought my 19 along but shanked 2 shots on the first run. Damn! So I ran it again, knowing that I had plenty of time left to get my hits and clean it. On the second run I did just that. I then went to the five yard line but my runs were either under time and not clean or clean but over time. I didn't even bother recording anything but it was a mid twenties score. By this point I had ran it 4 times and between this and the other things I had run, I was running out of the allotted ammo. In another 2" walkback style drill I run, I can do 5 clean on a 2" through 11 yards but the par is about 2 seconds per yard. It is a rather humbling drill and I like it. I've ran it or variations of it in the past but this is the first time i've cleaned it at any distance. I think in the future I will do 4 yards until I can clean it then proceed to 5 and so on. This seems like a drill that you need to take a yard at a time to get steady gains.

JCS

07-10-2016, 07:08 PM

I probably should've tried it at 3 yards. It's very humbling. People clearing this at 7 yards blows my mind. I love this site. Keeps me humble.

Edit: I would like to add I ran this from concealment with a Glock 19 appendix carried in a jm custom kydex aiwb holster with foam wedge.

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Mr_White

07-11-2016, 12:04 PM

I'm sure Gabe cleans it WHO.

Lolololol yeah right

scw2

07-11-2016, 07:35 PM

Shot with a CZ 75, from concealment AIWB. Did this from 3 yards.

Shot 5 of 6 strings: 6/6, 0/6, 0/6, 3/6, 4/6, (extrapolated 3/6) = 16 / 36.

Takeaways:
1. Pretty poor showing, but hit 6/6 for the first time finally.
2. Draws averaged 2.0 sec and splits were 0.6 sec
3. Should try to get weighted dummy rounds to use in dry fire to improve draws
4. Work on seeing and tracking sights to improve splits
5. Continue to work on trigger press to help prevent downward push, and make sure I no longer see the front sight dip when shot is about to break

9070

Range1

07-14-2016, 08:02 PM

Equipment used: Gen 4 Glock 23 with 9mm conversion, CompTac OWB strong side holster, no concealment this time
Any variations used: Used the kiddie version, 3 yards with no par time
Time and hits for each of the six strings: 6/6 at 8.72; 6/6 at 6.24; 6/6 at 4.91; 6/6 at 4.25; 6/6 at 5.23; 2/6 at 5.21
Total score out of the 36 possible points: 32
Pass or Fail per the original 36/36 standard: Fail

For some reason found myself wanting to check for hits after each shot. First time I have caught myself doing that to that extent. Resulted in slowing the splits and shooting low. All groups were a little low. The first two groups were tight so was going too slow. Got a little cocky on the last one since the accuracy was pretty good so tried to poor it on. Started missing, started looking for the hits and screwed up good. Have to really concentrate on front sight and trust my fundamentals.

scw2

07-14-2016, 08:14 PM

cheshire_cat

07-14-2016, 08:41 PM

Interesting that you went with hits first and time second, and I sorta went with the opposite by trying to meet the time standard and tried to drag fundamentals/accuracy along kicking and screaming. I wonder what the more efficient way to train is...
It is training for two different things and you should train both ways. With that being said, the key to this drill is getting the hits AT speed. The point is to develop a fast and accurate trigger press. If you are looking at accuracy alone I think Dot Torture is a good drill for that. So for the Frank Garcia Dot drill it would be better to go closer in order to make the time than it would be to go slower at s farther distance.

"If the time and accuracy standards are unworkable for you, start by moving the target closer. If you are not able to make hits at the 3 yard line, then try doing the drill without a par time."

JCS

07-14-2016, 09:48 PM

I want to try this again at 3 yards.

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HopetonBrown

07-14-2016, 10:01 PM

I shot this in a Stoeger class and he made sure I felt very bad about my lack of performance.

Luke

07-14-2016, 10:05 PM

I wanna see Gabe and Les clean it by shooting dots 1-6 1 shot each in 5 seconds, instead of 6 shots in one dot in 5 seconds. Battle of the super human trigger press AND transistions:)

JHC

07-15-2016, 06:00 AM

I shot this in a Stoeger class and he made sure I felt very bad about my lack of performance.

Did Ben demo it? Result?

Range1

07-15-2016, 07:55 AM

Actually I was just trying to get hits in the circle as fas as I could. I did not think I could make the par time based on past performance and was surprised I made the par time twice and was close twice. Then I got cocky and the wheels came off. Hopefully will be trying it again next week.
Also agree need to train for both accuracy and speed. For now seems like .5 splits and a 2.0 draw is the quickest I can go with on demand hits. Maybe the blank wall or berm drill, no target just pure speed and sight focus, would help?

JCS

07-15-2016, 01:41 PM

2.0 draw and .5 splits is 5 seconds! Perfect.

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HopetonBrown

07-15-2016, 05:22 PM

Did Ben demo it? Result?

No, he didn't shoot any of the drills, just the stages.

Range1

07-15-2016, 06:36 PM

2.0 draw and .5 splits is 5 seconds! Perfect.

Huh, did not even realize that. So I should be able to get this at 3 yards and the ones I did make fits. So I guess my "on demand" is actually on demand unless nerves get the better of me. Definitely doing this again this week now.

scw2

07-15-2016, 08:12 PM

Huh, did not even realize that. So I should be able to get this at 3 yards and the ones I did make fits. So I guess my "on demand" is actually on demand unless nerves get the better of me. Definitely doing this again this week now.

Technically 0.6 sec splits. First shot is 2.0, then you got 5 rounds left and 3 seconds. :)

JCS

07-15-2016, 08:54 PM

Technically 0.6 sec splits. First shot is 2.0, then you got 5 rounds left and 3 seconds. :)

Yikes apparently I can't add.

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BaiHu

07-17-2016, 06:33 PM

21/36 at 7 yds G3G19 from JMCK appendix. I should have run it closer, but I was retarded and followed directions from memory when I realized I had 36 rounds left.

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jiminycricket

07-18-2016, 04:36 AM

G19 Gen4 from under a denim vest in a Blade-Tec Phantom IWB holster at 3:30.

I shot the drill at 7 yards from concealment.

I shot this somewhat cold on 7/16/16. I say somewhat because I always begin my range sessions with the chambered round of my defensive ammo at 50 yards. Afterward I proceeded with the drill, but I screwed the pooch on the third dot because I only had 3 rounds in the gun. Oops. So I started over and scored 26/36 for a fail.

I definitely noticed my individual hits for the majority of the strings, so I told myself to not lose focus of my front sight. Also, I definitely could afford more leeway in time for my first shot on half of the strings.

Clobbersaurus

07-18-2016, 10:39 PM

Here is my steaming bag of suckage.

Shot with my trusty Elite II, with my trusty Blade-Tech OWB holster and belt, and my trusty lack of skill. I may have landed 6/36.

I was getting frustrated, both at not meeting the par time or the accuracy standard....I only shot this once, thankfully.

https://youtu.be/ICVGhp_9_4c

scw2

07-19-2016, 08:34 PM

Ran this from concealment with a CZ-75 SP-01. 3 yards with 5 sec par on turning targets.

Scored: 28/36
5/5
5/6
5/6
4/6 (maybe 3/6??)
3/6
6/6

9254

Noticed on some strings I'm just seeing/observing, and I tend to shoot those strings much cleaner. Need to work on seeing sights and calling my shots. Also pushed the targets back later to 5 yards and shot 2 strings of 6 rounds, getting 4/6 on both. Will maybe run this drill again next time twice, once at 3 yards then another at 5 or 7 yards to see what I can do there. May be good practice to also not "force" shots and shoot with visual patience at those distances, which I have struggled with at USPSA.

Edit to add lots of low/left shots. Left is due to my grip, which I've continued to work on in dry fire. Low shots I'll need to get the anticipation and milking out of my system slowly...

Range1

07-21-2016, 03:59 PM

After scw2 and firefighterguy pointed out I should have plenty of time to complete this drill I was encouraged to repeat it. Results were disappointing.

Equipment: Gen 3 Glock 22 with 9mm conversion (just going to call it a 17 from now on), CompTac OWB holster, no concealment.
Variation: Kiddie version with 5 second par time at 3 yards from the holster.
Times/hits: 4.00 for 5/6; 3.93 for 4/6; 4.10 for 5/6; 3.78 for 4/6; 4.85 for 6/6 and 4.56 for 6/6. Total hits 30/36.

Had plenty of time and groups were fairly small, would have fit within the 2 inch circle, but were low. Tried several more times but kept throwing low groups then got frustrated and the groups really opened up. Plan to keep coming back to this particularly sadistic little drill until I can complete it successfully. Got to figure out if I am shoving the gun (possibly) or letting my concentration go to the target over the front sight (likely).

jiminycricket

07-23-2016, 01:20 AM

This drill is definitely not one you can get by with just luck. Doing six dots clean in a row definitely demands focus and true skill. Yesterday I went to the range to do the drill over for a total of 8 tries. Same distance as last (7 yards) just without concealment which really didn't factor much at all from what the shot timer told. Hovered in the high twenties with my last run scoring 30/36. A couple of runs I managed to shoot the top 3 dots clean but then managed to lose it on the last bottom 3.

jiminycricket

07-23-2016, 01:29 AM

BTW Shooting Range Hack: A jar of Bare Minerals and a fine tip sharpie make perfect 2" circles.
I was driving the GF's car 😏

GAP

07-24-2016, 12:20 PM

First time trying this drill and wow is it difficult. I only had enough ammo left to try from 3 and 5 yards. I'll try again next weekend from 5.. 7 is going to be ridiculous.

Glock 26 - Gen 4
JM Custom IWB4
T-Shirt concealment
All strings in the 4.5-5 second range

3 Yards - 36/36
9354

5 Yards - 32/36
9355

scw2

07-24-2016, 08:54 PM

After scw2 and firefighterguy pointed out I should have plenty of time to complete this drill I was encouraged to repeat it. Results were disappointing.

Haha, I was going off the times listed before. I can't come close to your performance yet, so I don't mean to say that the hypothetical times listed were easy by any means, and your results are way better than mine. I do notice that I struggle with some anticipation, plus shoving the gun like you mentioned. Not sure how to solve for the shoving issue with recoil management. I suspect maybe I'm not using enough forward/aggressive posture.

jdesro

07-25-2016, 07:53 PM

Equipment used: S&W M&P 9c, JMCK AIWB
Any variations used: concealed under t-shirt
Total score out of the 36 possible points: 21/36
Pass or Fail per the original 36/36 standard: FAIL

Shot this at 5 yards. One shot on the last circle was over time. Didn't do as well as I had hoped.

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8882/27935975263_3429bff422_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JyBbaV)IMG_0291 (https://flic.kr/p/JyBbaV) by John (https://www.flickr.com/photos/38080719@N08/), on Flickr

hiro

07-29-2016, 04:00 PM

This is painful...
9515
Glock 17K
I started from high ready. My draw times suck, averaging about 2 seconds. I was pretty confident I was going to struggle with this drill so I cut myself some slack with the starting position. Looking at the target you can see it didn't matter...
3 yards

Scores/times
2/6 6.25 seconds
3/6 6.21 seconds
3/6 5.19 seconds
2/6 5.00 seconds
1/6 5.06 seconds
2/6 3.11 seconds

13/36 FAIL

After getting back to shooting back in March of this year this was one of the drills I tried to incorporate into my sessions. After a few weeks I pulled it from the line up. I can clean the regular dot torture at 3 yards and have almost done so at 5 yards but not against the clock. Introduce the timer and boy do I suck!

Will discuss more in my training log...

scw2

07-30-2016, 12:32 PM

July 29. Shot using CZ 75 SP-01, CCC Gestalt, from concealment with a polo. Used a timer this time instead of the NRA target turning system.

32/36 overall, failed but big improvement for me with regards to consistency.

Shot this again at 3 yards, and failed to meet the standards. I set a 5 sec par, but kept shooting to see what my times/hits would be like. Some of the 6th shots were not picked up so I just extrapolated using the average split times. The strings were ~5.3 sec on average, with splits averaging ~0.65 seconds and draw to first shot averaging ~ 2.0 seconds.

One key insight I had while warming up with shorter strings was that I was not really pressing the trigger well. I realized during one string that I was not pressing straight back, corrected it mid string and had the last 3 shots go into 1 ragged hole. I tried to replicate that in the actual Garcia dots drill, and saw my consistency go way up. So that's going to be my main focus in future range sessions working on these dots.

Sight tracking and shot calling need to be improved as well. I was also more aware of being aggressive in my stance and gripping hard, which seemed to help. Would like to improve on the draw and split times a bit, but need to get my trigger work and sight tracking improved first.

9544

scw2

08-07-2016, 09:36 PM

Shot this again at the range from 3 yards. CZ 75 SP-01 with closed front garment, CCC Gestalt AIWB. Didn't warm up as much this time, and my trigger control suffered.

Shot 28/36 (3x4, 2x5, 1x6). Materially worse than last week's score of 32/36. Trigger control was far worse and need to work on being able to press cleanly straight back at speed - misses were low and/or left.

Will work on that this coming week, doing trigger presses as fast and cleanly as possible when timer goes off in dry fire. Did a dedicated session today of that and felt clean. Will do work also incorporating draws. Hopefully the trigger work in dry fire over the next few weeks pays dividends in live fire.

9736

Did some testing at 5 and 7 yards. May start running this at 4 and 5 yards to change things up from 3 yards, but still can't clean it at 3 yards yet so will likely focus on this distance for now.