LEM Conversion Questions for HK users

[psalms144.1]

I recently stole, I mean ACQUIRED a lightly used HK45C that I intend use as my "winter" gun - I find the Glock's trigger/trigger guard to be suboptimal for shooting with heavy winter gloves, and our issued 9mm JHP is a little behind the times WRT design, so prone to issues with clogging when shot through heavy, layered clothing (typical for up here from Nov-mid Mar). The downside is, the pistol is DA/SA with safety/decock, and, frankly, the DA trigger is darn near unusable (my trigger pull gauge only goes to 12 pounds, and it bottoms out WAY before the hammer falls).

I'm familiar with the LEM through some extended use, and figure that's the right "fix" for me. The questions I have are:

(1) I'm a Sig certified armorer for the P-series guns, so I know my way around the guts of a pistol. Is the LEM conversion something that's "do-able" for a neophyte to HKs, or should I send this off to HK for the conversion?
(2) What's everyone's opinion on retaining the safety lever? I like the idea that the pistol can be on-safe for administrative handling, but I wouldn't see ever carrying it on-safe. Should I just delete it during the conversion?

Thanks in advance for your advice and opinions.

[OnionsAndDragons]

If you are comfy with using grease to maintain spring placement during assembly, you should have no issue. The only tricky part on putting a LEM gun back together is setting and lining up the sear (I think) assembly with the cocking spring before you push in the pin. I'm not a sig armorer but I've detail stripped ours a few handful of times, and it took me 3-4 times of reassembling the LEM mechanism to figure out what worked best for me.

I would delete the safety, personally. If it isn't something you train with regularly, the liability probably outweighs the admin benefits.

[fatdog]

1. I am certified M&P, Glock, and while not formally trained, know my way around S&W Gen 3, Beretta, Sig, Colt SAA, 1911, BHP from an armorer perspective. I found the LEM conversion on my USP's to be a bit more complex than most of those other guns, but certainly within the range of "armorer activity". The hardest part to me was replacing the trigger return spring which you don't necessarily have to do for an LEM. Aligning the parts of the LEM action itself and pining them is a bit of a task, would be trying if you don't have patience with that sort of thing.

2. I kept the safety lever and used the V.5/6 piece so my USP's are technically LEM v.5, which has worked out well for me as someone coming from 30 years of using 1911 & BHP as my background. If I forget to put the lever on safe before holstering I still have thumb on top of the hammer, and I am habituated to taking it off safe during the draw and presentation cycle from my past habits, and my thumb is over the top of the safety with my grip on the USP. It is certainly not necessary to keep the safety, but it worked out well for me as a second layer in my gun handling tasks, that is not really a big detriment to my presentation of the gun to target.

I am not familiar with the differences and details of the non-USP HK guns.

[Gadfly]

SIG, Glock, HK, Colt and Beretta armorer... The HK is a pain in the ass compared to the others. Not impossible. But, like others have said, be patient. When you take parts out, lay them out in orientation and relation to the other parts as they come out. It seems to help when putting them all back in.

Perhaps watch a couple of you tube videos of others doing an LEM conversion to get an ideal of what is needed. Its not rocket science at all. It is how do I pinch this, while holding that down, while lining that up to slide this through...

And I would ditch the safety lever. It is not ergonomic at all. Just one more thing that can go wrong.

Let us know how it turned out!

[Dave J]

Not an armorer, but I've converted a couple of USPs, and didn't think it was particularly difficult, other than the usual hassle with the trigger return spring. Using something like a glock tool as a dummy shaft to keep the frame parts in place until you put the axle pins in helps a lot, along with grease as mentioned. If you can handle a Sig P-series, I'd say go for it.

[EVP]

No armorer experience or anything like that.

It is easy to do a LEM conversion. Like l Dave mentioned above you can use punches to line everything up. The only tedious(not hard) is the TRS if you dot have the HK TRS tool. Even then it is not hard and straight forward.

[Alembic]

I just did a USPc9 conversion from DA/SA V1 to LEM TGS version. My only previous "gun smith" experience is changing the mag release and slide lock on my Gocks. I do own a set of punches, but no vice.

It was easy.

Including time reading the threads linked below and watching a youtube video by HK member, Carrera, it took me less than two hours start to finish. If your HK45c is stock V1 you have the light TRS installed already, for a more positive reset you can switch to the heavy TRS, HKpart #219441 Which gives you the varient-TGS. The Heavy spring is easy to install, just push it in place with a large punch and confirm one leg is in the notch on the back of the trigger and the other is above, to the left. The match spring and the light TRS are much harder to install, hence the HK tool.

I had more trouble lining up the sear, catch and disconnecter than with anything else but really you just need to use a punch and be patient. The Hammer spring is much easier to install with a small hooked or notched tool. Dental pick or I used a looped copper wire to grab the spring leg. Again, no big deal.

I pulled the detent plate and the safety lever, but that's up to you. If you do remove, be sure to remove the spring and the "flag" that provide the pressure on the safety lever. Operates fine with both in place, but I was advised to remove both parts.

Spring Reference chart by TooSixy. excellent reference source, http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/168700-spring-reference-chart-different-lem-variants.html

LEM Parts Ref. by Toosixy. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/172503-individual-lem-part-numbers.html

And a link to a step by set by BigBore. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/63079-lem-installation-instructions.html

[DEG]

Great links, Amembic. I've successfully followed those instructions as well and I think they cover everything needed.

I've converted a couple of P30s, USPs, an HK45 and a compact. Without exception I need to practice deep breathing once I get to the elbow spring for the two part LEM hammer. A dental pick is helpful if you have one. Patience, and remembering that you shouldn't use a hammer on anything in the frame :)

Like others stated, I would also ditch the decocker/safety lever; but I can see it having advantages if you are used to riding it with your strong hand thumb.

[Ipsilateral]

As others have pointed out, it's not the easiest conversion to do but as a non-certified armorer in anything I have done the conversion without much issue, I do think the HK TRS pliers make that portion of the job much easier.

If I were to convert a V3 to lem, I'd probably keep the safety but replace the detent plate with a V9/10 to delete the decocker downward motion.

[BCL]

It's a pain, but not that difficult. I'm not very mechanically inclined and I don't have any issues doing it. If you want to keep the safety, I would go to a Variant 9 detent plate, as I'm not sure what would happen if you used the V1 detent plate.

+1 on the HK TRS pliers, it makes things much easier.

[The Apprentice]

Never did a usp style conversion but I have done a few p series honestly I figured it out from the owners manual I don't get what the fuss is all about but I do build things for a living so maybe I'm biased. Trigger return spring tool well worth the money I have found it usefull on a few other guns as well so its not a one trick pony. The only other tricky part is getting the elbow spring to stay in place while sliding in the two piece hammer I've found some dabs of greese help to hold it all together. Give it a shot worst case senario you send hk a box of parts.

[GOTURBACK]

I have a HK45c which I converted to LEM, and also have 2 other HK LEM guns which I regularly detail strip when needed. Watch the video's on HKPro by twosixy and read the tutorials I can say that it will become easier after you do it a couple of times, the TRS is kind of a bitch the special pliers do make it much simpler but there are other tricks which you can use to make it easier ( wd40 straw/coffee stir) ***An important note the trigger axle can only be removed on one side of the frame!!

[Tom Duffy]

I converted my HK45C a couple of years ago. I'm a classic case of "If I can do it, anyone can do it." I just followed the Youtube video and took it slowly. The gun has 3,000 flawless rounds through it since. No kidding, if I ever had to convert back to SA/DA someone would have to create a video just for me.