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View Full Version : Range ammo only reloading steps for an AR-15?



LittleLebowski
07-03-2016, 08:17 PM
I'm trying to see what the minimum of prep or close to it is for shooting drills in my backyard. I'm guess some of the tumbling steps many use aren't needed, what else?

Luke
07-03-2016, 08:41 PM
The biggest thing to reloading is understand the what and WHY to the process, and to pay attention, like you are 13 years old and girls are getting undressed paying attention to what you are doing.

The ONLY time I see people have issues is when 1. They don't really understand what's going on and why it's going on. 2. Th don't care, they don't realize they are making an explosion in a gun that when things go wrong can possibly ruin your life.


The people who I don't trust there reloading are very easy to spot.

This may be off topic but I just wanted to say it.

LittleLebowski
07-03-2016, 08:43 PM
The biggest thing to reloading is understand the what and WHY to the process, and to pay attention, like you are 13 years old and girls are getting undressed paying attention to what you are doing.

The ONLY time I see people have issues is when 1. They don't really understand what's going on and why it's going on. 2. Th don't care, they don't realize they are making an explosion in a gun that when hinge go wrong can possibly ruin you life.


The people who I don't trust there reloading are very easy to spot.

This may be off topic but I just wanted to say it.

Ok.

Duelist
07-03-2016, 08:48 PM
Clean brass is nicer to handle when you are doing the post-cleaning steps, and may help some guns run more reliably.

I always clean my AR brass. I may not always clean my bolt gun brass, especially if it was cleaned the prior loading cycle and didn't get dumped on the ground.

Lester Polfus
07-03-2016, 09:00 PM
Some folks like to get super shiny brass by tumbling in both corn cob and walnut media, and also meticulously clean and uniform primer pockets.

Back when I had an AR and loaded range fodder for it, I tumbled just enough to get any crud off the brass and didn't do anything to the primer pockets. I think these are the kinds of steps you are asking about?

LittleLebowski
07-03-2016, 10:08 PM
Some folks like to get super shiny brass by tumbling in both corn cob and walnut media, and also meticulously clean and uniform primer pockets.

Back when I had an AR and loaded range fodder for it, I tumbled just enough to get any crud off the brass and didn't do anything to the primer pockets. I think these are the kinds of steps you are asking about?

Exactly.

EMC
07-03-2016, 10:30 PM
You don't need to clean primer pockets. You could also skip trimming if your brass is under max length. Don't skip the primer pocket swaging if the pockets are crimped. I also recommend always chamfering the case mouth for easier seating even if you don't trim. Those steps only need to be done on the first loading obviously.

Lester Polfus
07-03-2016, 11:01 PM
Yes. I didn't trim either.

I reload in two different ways. One is when I'm trying to equal range fodder like UMC or American Eagle. The other is when I'm trying to eke out the last bit of precision.

Honestly I never saw a whit of difference between the two approaches in my AR, with its 16" pencil barrel and non-free floated handguard. It can make a big difference in my bolt gun, and it made a noiticible difference when I had a nice 1911.

SecondsCount
07-03-2016, 11:23 PM
Here is how I do it: Pick up the brass off the ground, tumble and lube it, throw it in the case feeder, and pull on the handle of my 1050 ;)

I dry tumble all of my brass with a polish as I don't want any crap in the sizing die. I never worry about primer pockets so I decap when I size. Next comes lube and I have a homemade formula that I use which is similar to what Dillon sells. I throw the brass in a plastic shopping bag, spray a couple squirts of lube, and toss it around. Not too much and not too little. When you are done the cases should have a slick film on them. Too much lube and it will build up in the die and cause little dents in the shoulder when sizing. Not enough and the case will stick in the die which has happened to me several times over the years. Dillon dies make it easy to remove a stuck case and I use their 223 carbide sizing die which still requires lube but makes life easier.

Sizing is probably the most important step. You want to make sure that you are pushing the shoulder back to the original dimensions or the bolt will not close on the loaded round. You don't want to check just one but at least 10 as some cases stretch more than others. Most of the time, running the die down until it touches the shellholder will do what you need but not always. There is a tool called a case headspace gauge that you can use or the poor mans way is to see if the bolt will close on your rifle when you put the resized case in it.

On military primed cases, the primer pocket is crimped after the primer is pressed in. After the round is fired, getting the spent primer out of these cases isn't a big deal but getting a new primer back in can be a headache. I have removed this crimp a dozen different ways. The best is probably swaging but Hornady makes a low cost tool that is basically a reamer and will cut of the edge of the crimp on the primer pocket.

Next you want to make sure these cases are not too long. Once or even twice fired brass is probably okay but once you get beyond that you are going to have to trim your brass. I setup my dial caliper for the max case length for the caliber and lock it in place. Then I sit and watch a show while I sort out the ones that are beyond the max. I have a Possum Hollow trimmer that I chuck in a drill and use but the Lee trimmer kits are low cost and work well. Another thing to watch out for here is if you are going to crimp your case after seating the bullet. Most dies that I have seen use a roll crimp which works great as long as all of your brass is the same length. If you setup on a case that is 2.210 for instance, and a couple cases later one is run through the die that is 2.20, the crimp die will drive back the mouth of the case and cause it to buckle. I use a taper crimp die and Lee makes a collet die that does not require a consistent case OAL.

From there it is basically the same as loading pistol...seat a primer, drop the powder, seat the bullet, and crimp. When I am done loading I throw them in the tumbler for about 15 minutes to remove the lube. If you are wet tumbling, you can wash the lube off after sizing, and let the cases dry before continuing the loading process.

JAD
07-03-2016, 11:31 PM
So I guess there's range ammo, action match ammo, and precision ammo. Let's set the steps associated with precision ammo aside and just look at the steps in making action match ammo and see what can be reduced.

Deprime pre clean to get clean primer pockets: I consider this a precision step. If others disagree it will be interesting.

Clean brass: primarily you're doing this to not mess up your dies. How shiny the brass is doesn't matter in any step, but since it changes nothing except for how long you leave the brass in the process, it isn't much of a time saver to run dingier brass. You could, legitimately, wipe the neck with a quick swipe of steel wool and then (as a second process) with a rag soaked in mineral spirits, and it would be as good as tumbling for these purposes, but I'm not sure that's easier than the normal tumbling process.

Lube: got to do it no matter what.

Resize: got to do it, and I don't know of any faster way to do it.

Trim: for action match ammo I would probably trim to a consistent length, for range ammo I would just gauge for max and cull long brass -- save it for later when you are going to trim. You still need to get the long brass out.

I don't know that I would chamfer brass that hadn't been trimmed, unless I had trouble seating.

Charge: still going to be a progressive drop, and I'm still going to audit it on the same schedule, because Yosemite Sam.

Seat: no faster way.

Crimp: still going to do it. Otherwise, if you get a badly fed round and it shoves the bullet in the case, it vomits powder all over the inside of your AR.

Gage: I would skip this step.

So unless I missed something, you can skip trimming but still have to gauge case length; and you can skip the final assembled gauge, except set up and audit.

Lester Polfus
07-03-2016, 11:34 PM
My solution to cases with crimped primer pockets was to shit can them or if I had enough to fool with, sell them on gunbroker. I would buy cases of UMC, Win White Box or American Eagle, load them two or three times until the brass needed trimmed then I would sell a USPS prepaid box full of brass on gunbroker.

I once had a guy tell me how fucked up my reload habits were as he thumbed Wolf ammo into his mags. My gun wast the one that blew up that day.

mmc45414
07-04-2016, 09:53 AM
As has been said, the two big issues here are length and primer pockets. I guess both could be addressed by careful sorting and record keeping. The crimp only has to be removed once. Length can be trimmed back to the min and checked to not be past max before you load.

If you have a batch of cases that you load up and take out to shoot on your own range you could size/de-prime them, trim them all back to min length so they are all the same. If you collect these and there is not a chance of polluting the batch they should be good to load. If you are ejecting them into grass and not mud maybe they are not that dirty. Every time you get ready to load them check the length, and when they are getting long trim them all.

EMC
07-04-2016, 06:46 PM
One thing about trimming, certain brands of brass can be best for skipping the trimming. Federal brass (either the cheapo walmart 223 brass, or the premium nickle cases the cops leave behind) in my experience is almost always under trim length and doesn't grow much in my ARs. Lake City and PMC almost always require trimming. YMMV.

nwhpfan
07-05-2016, 02:36 PM
Loading .223 is the same as loading handgun.......once you get the brass ready.

If you buy prep'd brass..just load and go like anything else.

It's not rocket surgery.

If the primer pockets are crimped you'll have to remove it. If you can think ahead, buy ammo without a crimped primer pocket so when you shoot, pick-up, reload and you can treat it like anything else.

Trimming brass is more critical with rifle brass but if you fire it and it is not too long, you don't have to trim it:eek:.

pdb
07-05-2016, 02:53 PM
Here's my process:

- Fired brass goes straight into the tumbler. Fine walnut media, a torn up paper towel and two squirts of dishwashing soap. Tumble for a few hours.
- Sift out media, do a preliminary brass inspection. Anything questionable goes into the scrap bucket.
- Dump about 100 cases into a gallon ziploc, squirt a few times with a 4:1 mix of 99% isopropyl alcohol and lanolin. Knead bag for a few seconds, dump into clear Sterilite shoebox.
- Grab a case from shoebox. Run through the depriming / sizing die.
- Check case length with Harbor Fright digital mic. Trim if necessary. Run through sizing die again to remove edge, check case length again. Chamfer inside of case mouth.
- Wipe case clean of lube on rag I have sitting on my shoulder. Check primer pocket. If it's crimped, ream out. If not, prime with RCBS hand prime. Primed ready case goes into a 100 MTM box. Repeat until box is full. I'll often have a few boxes of primed brass ready if I have a good podcast on while I'm working and knock out a few.

- Get out scale, throw one charge from powder measure into pan, check throw weight. Dump the powder back in and repeat.
- Take empty primed case from 1 MTM box, stick into powder measure nozzle, throw charge. Tap the side of the nozzle to encourage any stragglers.
- Stick charged case into shellholder, put 55gr FMJ on case mouth, seat. Check cartridge OAL with mic. After the first few turn out ok, I get lazy and just make sure the case mouth is at the same spot on the cannelure.
- Put loaded round into empty MTM box, repeat until full.
- Screw in Lee .223 Factory Crimp Die, run each round through. Drop round into case gage, and then put into MTM box if it passes.

- Go to range, make more empty brass, goto 10.

I use charge weights on the light end of the scale for maximum case life and because I can get a few more rounds out of a pound of powder. I generally use Hornady 55gr FMJs because they're affordable in bulk. If I get fancy and segregate my brass by headstamp, I get about 1 MOA out of my handloads. If I throw everything together it's about 4, which is more than enough for my club's 2 gun match.

mmc45414
07-05-2016, 03:38 PM
Fine walnut media, a torn up paper towel and two squirts of dishwashing soap. Tumble for a few hours.
What does the paper towel do, attract dust and dirt?



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pdb
07-05-2016, 04:20 PM
What does the paper towel do, attract dust and dirt?



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That's the idea. It always comes out dirty and grey.

Shawn Dodson
07-05-2016, 10:31 PM
My process:

Decap with an RCBS Universal Depriming Die on my old RCBS Reloader Special single stage press
Tumble in stainless steel media for 2-3 hours
Allow brass to air dry overnight on a towel
Lube brass, a handful at a time, by putting it in a Walmart plastic bag, spraying a few squirts of RCBS case lube and shaking
Size brass on the single stage press
Hand wash brass in hot water and Dawn dish soap to remove lube and air dry overnight
Measure case length using a Lyman Ezee case length gauge; trim if necessary
Prime, charge and seat on my RCBS Pro-2000 progressive press
Crimp using Lee Factory Crimp Die on the single stage press
Check each loaded cartridge using a Dillon case gauge

dbateman
07-06-2016, 03:35 AM
I don't do a whole lot, I don't like wasting time on things I don't need to be doing.

I used to load on a single stage press but my volume got to a point where I thought I'd look at speeding things up a bit.
So I bought myself a 1050, *just for practice ammo.

All I do is, tumble my brass. Not because I like it shiny but because I don't like it when rocks get in the cases and wreak havok on my press. Dry my cases, unless I'm going to shoot it in the next few days.

Chuck em in the shell feeder and pull the lever until a loaded round falls off the shell plate, and keep doing that until no more cases are avalible to load.

I only trim my rifle brass from tim to time, I just measure a few cases and if they need it I trim em.
I anneale every two or three firings but I'm trying to get good brass life, and consistently. You don't need to do it.

Pistol ammo I still tumble but I don't trim or anneal cases, I just keep loading until I start seeing cases splitting, then I bin the lot or load it into match ammo where I can't pick up my brass.


*turns out I can't shoot the difference between single stage and 1050 ammo.
So pretty much everything that can be loaded on a 1050 is.

Shawn Dodson
07-06-2016, 10:27 AM
FWIW, I've been handloading Hornady 55gr FMJ for years but my next purchase will be from either 223bulkbullets.com or xtremebullets.com

If you sign up to be notified for e-mail promotions, Xtreme Bullets usually has a deal every two weeks or so for free shipping. ( I purchase 9mm 124gr bullets from them.)

mmc45414
07-08-2016, 05:40 AM
That's the idea. It always comes out dirty and grey.
I heard dryer sheets, and tried it for a while but didn't continue.

pdb
07-08-2016, 06:50 AM
I heard dryer sheets, and tried it for a while but didn't continue.

I believe dryer sheets is supposed to help cut down on static electricity causing corn media to stick to cases.

Chris Rhines
07-08-2016, 07:14 AM
A used dryer sheet in your tumbler will mainly cut down on the dust from the tumbling media. Paper towel does the same thing, but I think the dryer sheet works better.

Note - USED dryer sheet. Don't put a new one in there, it'll just make a mess.

mmc45414
07-08-2016, 08:11 PM
Note - USED dryer sheet. Don't put a new one in there, it'll just make a mess.

Cannot remember if I tried used ones. Will probably give it another try.



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LittleLebowski
07-21-2016, 09:18 AM
What COAL are you guys using for 55gr FMJ? I could only go to 2.23 and still have a bit of the case rim touching the cannelure.

Clusterfrack
07-21-2016, 10:29 AM
COAL 2.200" for my 55gr 5.56 reloads using range pickup brass. I also trim the neck and bump the shoulder so all cases are slightly undersized.

mmc45414
07-21-2016, 11:26 AM
I would just try to center up in the cannelure. COL is not that big a deal as long as it fits in the mag. It can be an accuracy tweak, but then you wouldn't be using those bullets either.

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SecondsCount
07-21-2016, 12:01 PM
I run mine at 2.230 but chasing the cannelure can be be an interesting dilemma. One thing to remember is that most of the 55 FMJ bullets with a cannelure on the market are pretty cheaply made. You won't be winning any precision matches with them but are fun for plinking and training. Typically the cannelure isn't precisely placed on these bullets. I'm not sure what the tolerances are but I have seen at least .020" of variance. The base to ogive, as well as the bullet diameter, vary as well.

The other thing to look at is the OAL of your case. If some are longer then they will end up way into the cannelure while shorter cases may not even reach it. This is why I put a slight amount of crimp on my 223 ammo to prevent bullet setback.

Shawn Dodson
07-21-2016, 06:36 PM
I seat to 2.250" to minimize the dual scratches to the case neck caused by contact with the lugs on the barrel extension. The case mouth is not in contact with the cannelure. I crimp with a Lee FCD.