From a greenhorn amateur: decocker only vs decocker w/ safety

[LearnedHat]

So I figure you can decock a pistol with a decocker/safety mechanism and then immediately (even in the same motion) move it back off safety and reholster in DA mode if you did not want to mess with the safety upon drawing the weapon. So is the desire for decocker only due to avoiding the safety lever becoming rengaged without your knowledge?

[olstyn]

That and simplicity; why have a control with a function you never intend to use?

[Trukinjp13]

If it is a range gun, I can see the appeal. But I prefer for a carry gun to be decocker only. Too much crap on the gun can make for a interesting situation. If you are going to be running it cocked and locked, why not just run a sao?


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[JSGlock34]

The other issue is when to decock. There is debate about this, with some schools of thought saying you should decock whenever you return to the ready position, other saying before returning the pistol to the holster. I think we often overlook this aspect of the DA/SA trigger when debating their merits and ease of training. However, a decocker only (such as a Beretta 'G' lever) is far easier to manipulate when decocking on the move than a hammer drop safety.

This issue was well covered by some knowledgeable trainers in this thread: When to Decock/Safe a Pistol (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9463-When-to-Decock-Safe-a-Pistol&highlight=running+thumb+safety)

[El Cid]

So I figure you can decock a pistol with a decocker/safety mechanism and then immediately (even in the same motion) move it back off safety and reholster in DA mode if you did not want to mess with the safety upon drawing the weapon. So is the desire for decocker only due to avoiding the safety lever becoming rengaged without your knowledge?

For me it's weapon specific. With a Beretta (slide mounted safety/decocker) I prefer decock only. It's hard to reach on the slide making its usefulness as a safety a challenge at best. It can also be put in safe unintentionally during immediate action.

With an HK USP however (frame mounted) I like the safety feature because I'm a fan of having a consistent trigger press. My USP is used condition 1 (cocked and locked) which requires the safety.

[Robinson]

For me with a Beretta 92 it is a very practical difference. I have short thumbs. I can de-cock a de-cocker only gun using the lever with my shooting hand thumb, but I cannot de-cock and then disengage the safety on a de-cocker/safety model. I have to use my support hand thumb to de-cock and disengage the safety or thumb the hammer forward to de-cock. For that reason I greatly prefer de-cocker only Beretta models.

[Bigghoss]

Once when doing force-on-force with sim rounds I did an emergency reload and unintentionally engaged the safety on my M9. This is a know issue with the 92 series and probably others which is why I prefer decock only if the lever is on the slide. On the M9a3 the safety lever is swept up when in the fire position so when you work the slide the lever wants to stay on fire rather than get swept down onto safe. I would still convert it to a G lever though.

If its a frame mounted lever I prefer to have the option to convert the gun to SAO and then I just place my thumb on top of the lever when I grip the pistol so that I automatically disengage the safety.

[M2CattleCo]

I say if you have a safey, you have to use it all the time because it will be engaged when you don't expect it to be.

[BehindBlueI's]

The only time I see the point of a manual safety for my use is with a single action trigger. I'm not allowed to carry 'cocked and locked' at work. Thus, there's no point in a safety for anything I'm going to carry because it will either be hammer down (DA gun) or striker fired.

[Handy]

I am of two minds about this:

From a pistolero standpoint, decock only makes DA practice easier and avoids the pistol being on safe when it shouldn't be. If I was still a military user that is what I would want.

From a non-LEO/,military safety standpoint, slide mounted decocker/safeties allow you to load the weapon on safe, avoiding having a loaded, cocked weapon in your domicile. Since private citizens are much more likely to shoot someone with an ND than in an actual gunfight, minimizing the danger of NDs during loading and unloading is a really appealing feature. Since the word "greenhorn" in the title, you may want to put some value on this.

[Digiroc]

So I figure you can decock a pistol with a decocker/safety mechanism and then immediately (even in the same motion) move it back off safety and reholster in DA mode if you did not want to mess with the safety upon drawing the weapon. So is the desire for decocker only due to avoiding the safety lever becoming rengaged without your knowledge?

Being a fan and collector of Smith & Wesson 3rd generation semi-autos I have moved away from the 1911 platform and condition 1 carry. Anyone who shoots safety equipped weapons will experience the "flinch test", forgetting to take the safety off when trying to take a shot. If this happens while in a defensive situation it's worse than bringing a knife to a gun fight.

All my Smith's are DA/SA and while most have the decocker/safety on the slide where it is easily reached by my shooting hand and in the case of my 5906, with either hand, being ambidextrous. I don't engage the safety after a round is in the chamber, preferring to carry the weapon in double action and ready to fire. While carrying DA/SA I frequently check that the safety is not engaged.

The FBI specified a frame mounted decocker only as well as the omission of the magazine disconnect present in all other S&W semi-autos. The 10mm 1076 FBI model is, in my humble opinion, the very best combat handgun ever produced. Of course finding one is difficult and buying one even more difficult and likely to be very expensive if you do. The 9 round magazines alone can go for $100. I'm lucky to have found both the 1006 and 1076 and have a total of 6 magazines for them.

Being on the frame, you can keep you thumb on the decocker when chambering a round, thus never having the weapon chambered with the hammer back and a hair trigger. Here is my 1076:

8946

Digiroc

[Tamara]

The FBI specified a frame mounted decocker only as well as the omission of the magazine disconnect present in all other S&W semi-autos. The 10mm 1076 FBI model is, in my humble opinion, the very best combat handgun ever produced.

That frame-mounted decocker was a fragile abortion. I've actually seen more broken ones than unbroken ones. You'd be better off with your 1006. Just my opinion.

[El Cid]

Being a fan and collector of Smith & Wesson 3rd generation semi-autos I have moved away from the 1911 platform and condition 1 carry. Anyone who shoots safety equipped weapons will experience the "flinch test", forgetting to take the safety off when trying to take a shot. If this happens while in a defensive situation it's worse than bringing a knife to a gun fight.

All my Smith's are DA/SA and while most have the decocker/safety on the slide where it is easily reached by my shooting hand and in the case of my 5906, with either hand, being ambidextrous. I don't engage the safety after a round is in the chamber, preferring to carry the weapon in double action and ready to fire. While carrying DA/SA I frequently check that the safety is not engaged.

Digiroc

Well, I've never heard of a "flinch test" but I can tell you that if the shooter trains properly they will not have any issue with a manual safety.

I'm curious - how do you "frequently" check the safety on your carry gun? Unless you are running into a bathroom stall or private office each time, I'm betting you are telegraphing that you are armed every time you do this.

[BehindBlueI's]

Well, I've never heard of a "flinch test" but I can tell you that if the shooter trains properly they will not have any issue with a manual safety.


Probably. The bad part is they probably won't know until it really mattered, and very few people will actually train properly to include off hand manipulation, after being knocked down, while being grappled, etc.

[Tamara]

...actually train properly to include off hand manipulation, after being knocked down, while being grappled, etc.

Somebody should start a forum to encourage doing that sort of stuff with a pistol. Call it "something-or-other-forum.com".

[Jeep]

That frame-mounted decocker was a fragile abortion. I've actually seen more broken ones than unbroken ones. You'd be better off with your 1006. Just my opinion.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that yours is a pretty widely held opinion at least here. A number of threads over the years have discussed the S&W frame-mounted decocker at least in passing, and the consensus seemed to be that it was poorly designed and tended to break.

Personally, if I wanted a frame-mounted decocker I think that I'd stick to a SIG.

[LearnedHat]

Somebody should start a forum to encourage doing that stuff with a pistol. Call it "something-or-other-forum.com".

I would think they have entire websites dedicated to off-hand manipulation while being grappled.

[Tamara]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that yours is a pretty widely held opinion at least here.

Not just here. Hell, look at S&W Forum. The things were recalled once. Does Digiroc's have the frame dimples indicating that the recall was performed on his gun?

[Hambo]

That frame-mounted decocker was a fragile abortion.

Bad idea+engineering+cap gun quality parts=problems. If they had been any good at all S&W would have kept making them to creep SIG's market share.

[BehindBlueI's]

I would think they have entire websites dedicated to off-hand manipulation while being grappled.

I think it's real big in Japan. But with tentacles.

[JSGlock34]

A few S&W 3rd Generation models had slide mounted docockers similar to the Beretta 'G' lever. Note the slide markings below...

http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9134/10199224_3.jpg?v=8CD9C3E585B6CC0

My first pistol was a S&W 5903, and a friend's first was a 915. Later he had an awesome 4506 complete with the Galco Miami Classic rig. Takes me back.

Can't help but think a 3913 would sell these days.

[Digiroc]

... The things were recalled once. Does Digiroc's have the frame dimples indicating that the recall was performed on his gun?

My 1076 has the dimples on the frame just under the decocker so it has had the factory "fix" it also has the letter from Roy Jenks stating it's history. I'd be OK with a DAO variant, and I will add 1046 when I find one in good condition, but as a collector the thing spends far more time in the safe (although I do shoot it) and rarely, if ever, goes out in the "wild" as a carry gun.

I bought a model 411 2nd gen very much like the one pictured above but in .40 with alloy frame that will become my back-up / truck gun once I've shot a few boxes of ammo through it. If my truck gets stolen I'd rather have a $500 gun in it than a nearly irreplaceable collector's item.

Digiroc

[Digiroc]

A few S&W 3rd Generation models had slide mounted docockers similar to the Beretta 'G' lever. Note the slide markings below... Can't help but think a 3913 would sell these days.

My model 411 has the slide marked warning that the weapon can be fired without a magazine in place. (as does my 1076) I've never seen one with the decocker only warning like yours. I am just completing purchase of a 3913NL and I think that should be the gun that Smith & Wesson re-issues. I've heard it described as the finest CCW ever produced. Now I'm on the hunt for the 3913LS "Ladysmith" for my wife and to complete the series.

Digiroc


8960

This 3913NL is being sent to my FFL as pictured with mags and holster. The weapon has been re-worked by "T" claims a 9lb DA pull and 3lb SA break, a hair trigger by my standards.

[Digiroc]

Well, I've never heard of a "flinch test" but I can tell you that if the shooter trains properly they will not have any issue with a manual safety.

I'm curious - how do you "frequently" check the safety on your carry gun? Unless you are running into a bathroom stall or private office each time, I'm betting you are telegraphing that you are armed every time you do this.

"Flinch Test" is what you say when on the range when you or someone else forgets to disengage the safety and the gun does't go BANG when the trigger is pulled.

Frequently for me means every time the weapon is holstered I use my thumb to confirm that the action of putting it in the holster hasn't moved the rather exposed safety/decocker inadvertently into the safe position. Never has in thousands of re-holsterings over the years. Just a muscle memory thing I've developed. Much like disengaging the safety on a 1911 when pulling it out, something you should learn to do without thinking.

Digiroc

[PNWTO]

Anyone who shoots safety equipped weapons will experience the "flinch test", forgetting to take the safety off when trying to take a shot.

That is a training issue that is remedied fairly easily.

[Chuck Whitlock]

The FBI specified a frame mounted decocker only as well as the omission of the magazine disconnect present in all other S&W semi-autos. The 10mm 1076 FBI model is, in my humble opinion, the very best combat handgun ever produced.


That frame-mounted decocker was a fragile abortion. I've actually seen more broken ones than unbroken ones. You'd be better off with your 1006. Just my opinion.

My understanding was that FBI requested that S&W make their new guns operate just like the SIGs they'd been using. Predictable result trying to turn product A into product B when it was never designed that way.

[GJM]

For me it's weapon specific. With a Beretta (slide mounted safety/decocker) I prefer decock only. It's hard to reach on the slide making its usefulness as a safety a challenge at best. It can also be put in safe unintentionally during immediate action.

With an HK USP however (frame mounted) I like the safety feature because I'm a fan of having a consistent trigger press. My USP is used condition 1 (cocked and locked) which requires the safety.

Do you have any problems reliably disengaging the safety at speed? I can't, with my regular firing grip, and ended up going V3 decocker only, because I was worried the safety might end up on when I didn't intend it to. Wish there was a factory or after market more ergo safety lever for the USP.

[JTQ]

I'm a 1911 guy, and the thumb safety on a 1911 is second nature to me. My thumb is always on the 1911 thumb safety. I'm more likely to forget to pull the trigger than forget the thumb safety.

However, I've played with some HK USP's at the gun show/gun stores and that thumb safety/decocker sure seems like it would give me problems. Regardless of what the triggers were like on either the DA/SA or LEM, I'd probably pick the LEM version simply because I don't care for the USP's thumb safety/decocker lever.

[Duelist]

A few S&W 3rd Generation models had slide mounted docockers similar to the Beretta 'G' lever. Note the slide markings below...

http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9134/10199224_3.jpg?v=8CD9C3E585B6CC0

My first pistol was a S&W 5903, and a friend's first was a 915. Later he had an awesome 4506 complete with the Galco Miami Classic rig. Takes me back.

Can't help but think a 3913 would sell these days.

every one I've seen in a store in recent years has sold. :)

[Tamara]

every one I've seen in a store in recent years has sold. :)

They didn't discontinue them because of staggering profits caused by crushing demand.

[JSGlock34]

The cancellation of Miami Vice was certainly a crippling blow...

[Tamara]

Heh. :D

The resurgence of the USD$ versus the Deutschmark and Austrian Shilling in the Bubble Years of the late Nineties likely had something to do with it, too.

EDITED TO ADD: Looking at the various production shortcuts done in later years to try and keep the 3rd Gen guns price-competitive with Sig and Beretta (forget Glock; gotta stea^h^h^h^h invent something new like the Stigma to compete with them on price).

Look at the difference in this 2nd Gen 469 and late 3rd Gen CS9. See how the slide top on the latter is just simple flat bevels instead of being rounded? Late 3rd Gen guns sported plastic discos, MIM lockwork bits, and a whole host of other cost-cutting steps, necessary because the original mostly-machined Smith TDA auto was a design from another era when compared to the stamped slide and sheet metal guts of the Sauer-Sigs.

8969

[OlongJohnson]

S&W fairly recently released a batch of 3953TSWs built in 2013. Must not have been taken by an LEO contract, or something. They were around a month or two ago. Some still might be. Still a lot more expensive than the mountains of trade-in 3953s that are still trickling out from the latest batches. Street priced similarly to a Sig.

[El Cid]

Do you have any problems reliably disengaging the safety at speed? I can't, with my regular firing grip, and ended up going V3 decocker only, because I was worried the safety might end up on when I didn't intend it to. Wish there was a factory or after market more ergo safety lever for the USP.

I haven't trained with the USP in a very long time. And if I wanted to carry it again after 10 years of Glocks I'd have to spend some significant time re-learning the draw with the safety.

Back then however I was training only with my Para P14 (my only handgun for a long time and in the mid 90's not that bad of an option) and had grown up on 1911's and the occasional BHP. I also used leather thumb break holsters and would disengage the safety as I gripped the gun and drove my thumb through the thumb break. I shot a handful of steel matches with the USP back in 2007 or so because my G22 was having issues. I didn't have any problems with the safety. The Big Dot XS sights however... Didn't play well with the frangible ammo for POI. Lol!

[HopetonBrown]

I also used leather thumb break holsters and would disengage the safety as I gripped the gun and drove my thumb through the thumb break.

Disengaging the safety while the gun is still in the holster sounds really early; is this what was taught?

[Tamara]

Disengaging the safety while the gun is still in the holster sounds really early; is this what was taught?

That time period wasn't far removed from one where savvy cops carried revolvers in holsters that didn't cover the trigger guard so they could get their finger on the trigger faster. :eek:

[TheNewbie]

Disengaging the safety while the gun is still in the holster sounds really early; is this what was taught?

I wouldn't do this with a 1911, but a USP decocked seems fine.

[GJM]

I will tell my USP story here, in case it prevents a repeat by someone else.

Years of 1911 shooting made safety off on target, safety on off target second nature. With the USP, I elected to carry DA, in an AIWB holster, safety off. Safety off because I couldn't reliably move the safety from safe to fire on full speed draws.

Driving down the road out at our cabin, see a porcupine, and bale out if the truck in pursuit, as we wack porkies here, due to destruction to cabins and dogs. I shoot the porky once with a round of .45 Super FMJ, and the animal is badly wounded, and crawls into the bushes. Reflexively I engaged the safety when moving. Got into position for a finishing shot, brought pistol up, and couldn't make it go off. Well of course, that is how a thumb safety is supposed to work. Between that and worrying about the safety finding its way on in the holster, I bought variant 3 plates, which convert the safety lever to decock only with no safety function.

[Tamara]

I wouldn't do this with a 1911, but a USP decocked seems fine.

Agree. For some reason I thought he was running it C&L (perhaps because I flirted with the idea of a USP9F back in '06 or '07, during my time of Peak 1911, and carrying it that way...)


Between that and worrying about the safety finding its way on in the holster, I bought variant 3 plates, which convert the safety lever to decock only with no safety function.

...and here, years after Peak 1911, that's probably what I'd do, too. That seems like the smart thing, there.

Decock-only, and let the DA trigger be safety enough.

[Duelist]

They didn't discontinue them because of staggering profits caused by crushing demand.

:) I meant, in a stealthy, sly way, that every 3913 I've seen in a store in the last few years that wasn't beaten to death, I've bought. And someone else bought the beat one.

[Tamara]

I don't blame you one bit! :)

[JTQ]

Hilton Yam has a review of the G21, M&P 45, and HK45 somewhere on the net. In his review, he commented on locking up the HK45 trigger while riding the thumb safety while shooting. With his grip, on occasion he'd end up pushing the safety/decock lever down while pulling the trigger and lock up the trigger.

[El Cid]

Agree. For some reason I thought he was running it C&L (perhaps because I flirted with the idea of a USP9F back in '06 or '07, during my time of Peak 1911, and carrying it that way...).
I was running it cocked and locked. This was also 20+ years ago before I knew what I do now. And it was before I was in LE. Back then if my gun came out of the holster it would have been because I decided I need to shoot.

[GJM]

Hilton Yam has a review of the G21, M&P 45, and HK45 somewhere on the net. In his review, he commented on locking up the HK45 trigger while riding the thumb safety while shooting. With his grip, on occasion he'd end up pushing the safety/decock lever down while pulling the trigger and lock up the trigger.

I had the same issue with the HK45 and C. The fix is a variant 9 plate that deletes the decock function.

[GJM]

USP And HK45 are different enough in grip, that it effects my use of the safety.

On the HK45, I can ride the safety, and enough so that with a 1911 style "ride the safety" grip, I need a variant 9 plate to avoid pressing down enough on safety to lock the pistol up from firing (possible with the in-between spot between safety off and decock),

On the USP 45, with my ideal hand position to press the trigger straight back, I can't reliably disengage the thumb safety. To get the thumb safety off reliably, I need a different hand position, and then shift to my shooting hand position after I get the safety off.

I hate to say it, but Darryl is right (in this one instance only) -- the LEM is the best all around for the HK45 and USP 45. :)

[Default.mp3]

I had the same issue with the HK45 and C. The fix is a variant 9 plate that deletes the decock function.I will note that for whatever reason, H&K has seen fit to label the plates themselves 5+6, rather than 9+10. This particular detent plate simply removes the decock function, as previously noted, but V5/V6 are DAO variants without a decock function but keeping the safety (with a left-side or right-side control lever respectively). It's nice that it's actually available these days: https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Detent-Plate-For-HK45-HK45C-Variant-5-6-9-212p2079.htm. It used to be quite difficult to find; many folks were quite disappointed when they bought the USP 5+6 plate, and found it didn't work in the HK45/HK45C.

I'll note that for the safety, I've found the 1911 safety sits too low for me, while the P30S/P30LS/HK45/HK45C safety works wonderfully. Probably due to the fact that I've shot the safetied H&Ks almost exclusively, and thus got used to that particular position rather than the classic 1911 ergonomics.

[Exiledviking]

Rather than starting a new thread, I hope it's OK to note what I experienced today with my HK USP9 with a match trigger. I shot an abbreviated Steel Challenge match at my local club this morning.

On the Smoke & Hope stage in two separate strings, I had what I could best describe as the pistol somehow being decocked before the last target was engaged. Both times, I fortunately recovered quickly and engaged the target with a DA pull.
This experience left me quite puzzled. I've had this pistol for a couple of years and shot several matches with it, but none at the pace of Smoke & Hope.
After reading this thread, I'm thinking that it probably is the safety/decocker that's inadvertently being engaged by the operator.
All of my other HK pistols are LEM, so that may play into it as I like a high grip. I'm seriously considering converting it to the match/LEM trigger. I had held off due to the SA on this pistol being superb (for a HK trigger).
Any thoughts would welcome.

[Bucky]

On the Smoke & Hope stage in two separate strings….
.

Smoke and Hope may be the best stage to teach what could go wrong in a panic draw. It taught me no matter how hard you train, a grip safety can get you in trouble.

[JPedersen]

Smoke and Hope may be the best stage to teach what could go wrong in a panic draw. It taught me no matter how hard you train, a grip safety can get you in trouble.

Grip safety meaning 1911 style or grip safety meaning a safety located on the grip as opposed to on the slide ala’ Beretta 92 and 3rd Gen Smith ? Just for clarification.


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[Clusterfrack]

Rather than starting a new thread, I hope it's OK to note what I experienced today with my HK USP9 with a match trigger. I shot an abbreviated Steel Challenge match at my local club this morning.

On the Smoke & Hope stage in two separate strings, I had what I could best describe as the pistol somehow being decocked before the last target was engaged. Both times, I fortunately recovered quickly and engaged the target with a DA pull.
This experience left me quite puzzled. I've had this pistol for a couple of years and shot several matches with it, but none at the pace of Smoke & Hope.
After reading this thread, I'm thinking that it probably is the safety/decocker that's inadvertently being engaged by the operator.
All of my other HK pistols are LEM, so that may play into it as I like a high grip. I'm seriously considering converting it to the match/LEM trigger. I had held off due to the SA on this pistol being superb (for a HK trigger).
Any thoughts would welcome.

Great post. That combo safety-decocker on the USP did the same thing to me a couple times as well.

[Bucky]

Grip safety meaning 1911 style or grip safety meaning a safety located on the grip as opposed to on the slide ala’ Beretta 92 and 3rd Gen Smith ? Just for clarification.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A grip safety as a safety deactivated by gripping the gun. Like a 1911 or XD. I'd call the other safety a frame mounted safety.

[JTQ]

Grip safety meaning 1911 style or grip safety meaning a safety located on the grip as opposed to on the slide ala’ Beretta 92 and 3rd Gen Smith ? Just for clarification.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd call the other safety a frame mounted safety.
Well, most Beretta 92's or S&W TDA guns would have slide mounted safeties.;)

[HCM]

Rather than starting a new thread, I hope it's OK to note what I experienced today with my HK USP9 with a match trigger. I shot an abbreviated Steel Challenge match at my local club this morning.

On the Smoke & Hope stage in two separate strings, I had what I could best describe as the pistol somehow being decocked before the last target was engaged. Both times, I fortunately recovered quickly and engaged the target with a DA pull.
This experience left me quite puzzled. I've had this pistol for a couple of years and shot several matches with it, but none at the pace of Smoke & Hope.
After reading this thread, I'm thinking that it probably is the safety/decocker that's inadvertently being engaged by the operator.
All of my other HK pistols are LEM, so that may play into it as I like a high grip. I'm seriously considering converting it to the match/LEM trigger. I had held off due to the SA on this pistol being superb (for a HK trigger).
Any thoughts would welcome.

Inadvertent pressure on the USP thumb safety is a known issue under stress. It can result in inadvertent deco king as you experienced or, in some instances failures to fire.

If you are running the gun SAO it may be worth converting the lever to safety only.

[Oldherkpilot]

The other issue is when to decock. There is debate about this, with some schools of thought saying you should decock whenever you return to the ready position, other saying before returning the pistol to the holster. I think we often overlook this aspect of the DA/SA trigger when debating their merits and ease of training. However, a decocker only (such as a Beretta 'G' lever) is far easier to manipulate when decocking on the move than a hammer drop safety.

This issue was well covered by some knowledgeable trainers in this thread: When to Decock/Safe a Pistol (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9463-When-to-Decock-Safe-a-Pistol&highlight=running+thumb+safety)

Thanks for linking that thread. That was before I came aboard here. Great info from some real knowledgeable characters.

[JPedersen]

A grip safety as a safety deactivated by gripping the gun. Like a 1911 or XD. I'd call the other safety a frame mounted safety.

Got it ! Thank you for the clarification.


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[Bucky]

Grip safety meaning 1911 style or grip safety meaning a safety located on the grip as opposed to on the slide ala’ Beretta 92 and 3rd Gen Smith ? Just for clarification.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A grip safety as a safety deactivated by gripping the gun. Like a 1911 or XD. I'd call the other safety a frame mounted safety.


Well, most Beretta 92's or S&W TDA guns would have slide mounted safeties.;)

Context is everything. :) ;)

[Exiledviking]

Thankfully I haven't had any issues with the grip safety when shooting fast. Especially on the HK pistols.... ha ha

I got the scores and I was surprised to see that I finished 4th out of 15 shooters on Smoke & Hope. And I took 5th place on the Outer Limits stage shooting my HK with iron sights against predominantly highly tuned CZs with red dots and 1911s with red dots.
I'm glad that the space between my ears quickly recognized the problem and solved it under pressure. That's what we ultimately train for, right?