The Beltman horsehide belt

[TGS]

Wow!

My 1.5" horsehide belt came in from The Beltman today. Before, I was using a Galco 1.5" leather belt, which I imagine was cowhide. It was no where near as stiff as this horsehide Beltman, and I never knew there'd be this much difference in my ability to conceal. With the previous Galco belt using my AIWB CCC Looper, I was able to conceal an HK P2000 just fine using a polo shirt or button-down (REI Casual look). Now, my P2000 disappears underneath a t-shirt! I'm not wearing a huge baggy shirt, either. The stiff horsehide belt tucks in the butt of the gun, and the top of the gun, much better. In addition, it feels even more comfortable. Unbelievable difference.

I would strongly suggest paying the extra dough for a horsehide belt if you're using a cowhide belt. I'm very happy with the purchase ($100+ shipping and 3 week wait time). In addition, the finish is of better quality than my 1.25" A&G Custom horsehide belt ( I haven't had the need to use that belt for carry yet).

Note: No affiliation with The Beltman other than as a paying customer.

[ubervic]

Cool.

I used to wear a standard (cowhide) Beltman belt and liked its stiffness and support, especially for IWB carry. I sold it off when I picked up a 5.11 1-1/2" nylon belt---having the greater range of adjustability in the nylon belt is great. Looking back, however, I don't have quite the support with the nylon belt that a good, stiff leather belt offers. Might be calling Beltman soon!

[EVP]

I have been thinking about going to a leather belt. Is the horsehide that much stiffer then cowhide? I used to have a sparks leather belt and it was plenty stiff to support a 4 inch 686.

Currently I have a 1.5 inch nylon belt with cobra buckles. It is a stiff high quality belt and worked great with a Sparks vm-II holster which held a hk45c. I have now moved to a gen 3 g19 and have realized that with AIWB carry I don't need that stiff of a belt. I can use some of my regular belts without any difference in how it carries.

I want something that is easy to take on/off and does not have any extra material that needs to be doubled back and velcroed. It just gets in the way of we're I like to carry a spare mag.

[TGS]

I have been thinking about going to a leather belt. Is the horsehide that much stiffer then cowhide? I used to have a sparks leather belt and it was plenty stiff to support a 4 inch 686.

Currently I have a 1.5 inch nylon belt with cobra buckles. It is a stiff high quality belt and worked great with a Sparks vm-II holster which held a hk45c. I have now moved to a gen 3 g19 and have realized that with AIWB carry I don't need that stiff of a belt. I can use some of my regular belts without any difference in how it carries.

I want something that is easy to take on/off and does not have any extra material that needs to be doubled back and velcroed. It just gets in the way of we're I like to carry a spare mag.

As far as I know, In order of stiffest to least stiff:
Horsehide
Bullhide
Cowhide

I don't even think he offers a cowhide belt, now. He has bullhide, horsehide and elephant.

That's interesting to hear that you don't feel a difference in belts with AIWB. I carry a similarly sized gun AIWB, and going from that Galco to this belt has made a huge difference.

Not sure about your belt specifically, but there's ways to thread a nylon belt so that it doesn't double over. When I wore a 1-3/4" nylon rigger style belt in the marine corps, I inserted the belt through the bottom of the buckle, over top the "keeper"(?) and then down through the buckle, but instead of going back I simply pushed it straight through in it's direction of travel. Does that make any sense? Doesn't seem like it does to me, but that's the best I can do...

[EVP]

Thanks TGS I think I might try one of those bullhide or horsehide leather belts.

I am not sure why either, it may just be a body specific type thing.

[TGS]

Thanks TGS I think I might try one of those bullhide or horsehide leather belts.

I am not sure why either, it may just be a body specific type thing.

Also might depend on the holster. What holster do you use?

AIWB does seem to be inherently more stable than hip/behind the hip, though. There's so little movement with AIWB that I can even carry my P2000 with grip-tape against bare skin and it isn't uncomfortable. I tried doing that on the hip and within three steps I decided I'm not too into that pain thing...

[EVP]

I use the CCC shaggy with a solid loop.

[JAD]

Interestingly, I was really disappointed with the quality of the two Beltman pieces I tried. The cut was so-so and the hardware was decidely cheaper than the Milt Sparks (brown) and Mitch Rosen (black) 1.25" belts I normally run.

For my range holster, I am on my second copy of a Hellweg 1.5" horsehide belt. The first was bought in 1996, the second in 2010. Supertough.

[JRCHolsters]

Horsehide is most definitely stiffer because of it's tighter grain. I still have a belt I bought from Ken Null over 20 years ago and it's in great shape. I probably wore it most every day for over 10+ of those years. Obviously, I am a big fan of horsehide. There is just something about the way it looks, once it is stained, that is very appealing.

[ubervic]

As far as I know, In order of stiffest to least stiff:
Horsehide
Bullhide
Cowhide

I don't even think he offers a cowhide belt, now. He has bullhide, horsehide and elephant.

I believe you're right.
I see, after reviewing his site again, that his quick-ship belts are bullhide...and I just ordered one!

[TGS]

Interestingly, I was really disappointed with the quality of the two Beltman pieces I tried. The cut was so-so and the hardware was decidely cheaper than the Milt Sparks (brown) and Mitch Rosen (black) 1.25" belts I normally run.

For my range holster, I am on my second copy of a Hellweg 1.5" horsehide belt. The first was bought in 1996, the second in 2010. Supertough.

You've definitely owned more belts than I. This is only my third leather gun belt, the first was the Galco, the 2nd was an A&G Custom and now this Beltman. I personally can't tell a difference in the hardware, although the finish is much better than the horsehide I got from A&G(it had tooling marks/blotches over the entire length in a tread pattern). What did you find cheap about the hardware?


Horsehide is most definitely stiffer because of it's tighter grain. I still have a belt I bought from Ken Null over 20 years ago and it's in great shape. I probably wore it most every day for over 10+ of those years. Obviously, I am a big fan of horsehide. There is just something about the way it looks, once it is stained, that is very appealing.

20 years, great shape, wow. Certainly worth the money!


I believe you're right.
I see, after reviewing his site again, that his quick-ship belts are bullhide...and I just ordered one!

Cool man. Let me know how you like it.

[mnealtx]

I have one of the quick ship belts, black with chrome hardware. Prior to this, my only other gun belt was a Milt Sparks.

It's a good, sturdy belt; certainly suitable for jeans wear. Being a 1.5", it's a bit large for slacks, especially given the double thickness. It's a snug (very snug) fit in the belt clip of a Garrett Silent Thunder and quite up to the task of supporting an M&P 9 FS or a 5" 1911 in an Infidel holster.

Coloring is even and the edges are nicely finished. Stitching is even and without loose/dropped stitches that I can see. The second layer ends before the buckle end turns to create the loop for the buckle.

[JohnN]

Cool.

I used to wear a standard (cowhide) Beltman belt and liked its stiffness and support, especially for IWB carry. I sold it off when I picked up a 5.11 1-1/2" nylon belt---having the greater range of adjustability in the nylon belt is great. Looking back, however, I don't have quite the support with the nylon belt that a good, stiff leather belt offers. Might be calling Beltman soon!


I tried a VTAC belt made by 5.11 and found it to be about the limpest POS nylon belt ever. Wilderness IMO makes the best rigger type belts especially in the 5 stitch and CSM configurations.

[ToddG]

I've been using Wilderness 5-stitch belts for a while now and can only say I feel stupid for waiting as long as I did to switch.

[phil_in_cs]

I got a non-reinforced bull hide belt from him, and after I lost some weight I got a reinforced one. Both are excellent. The reinforced one is very stiff. I highly recommend them.

[VolGrad]

I've been using Wilderness 5-stitch belts for a while now and can only say I feel stupid for waiting as long as I did to switch.

Much the same here.

I own a couple of Beltmans (both are a bit too small for me now ... oops) and a couple of leather belts from A&G. I have a shark belt from TT Gunleather. I also have a couple of Wilderness 5-stitch belts.

Personally, while the Beltman and A&G are nice my favorite non-synthetic belts so far have been from TT Gunleather.

If I'm untucked or in range wear I always have on a Wilderness 5-stitch ... always.

If I'm tucked in and need black (for work, dress, etc.) I wear the TT shark belt. If I need brown I wear an A&G.

I want to replace all my brown leather belts currently with something of the quality of the TT I own and expect a call back frim Tim this afternoon to get that rolling. Once I have it in hand I will be dumping some belts.

I did try a Jones Tactical belt briefly and found the quality very nice. However, I hated the Kobra style buckle so I dumped it. I will prob give them another chance next time I need to replace a Wilderness belt ... just no Kobra buckle this time.

[TGS]

Volgrad,

Were your Beltman belts horsehide?

To my knowledge horsehide is harder to work and doesn't take dye as well, so it's never going to look as nice as a cowhide belt. Kinda like comparing apples to oranges, if TT Gunleather and Mitch Rosen only make cowhide belts it doesn't do much to compare it against a horsehide belt and declare that company C isn't as nice as Mitch Rosen or TT Gunleather. Kinda like comparing a 10mm Glock against a .40 USP and declaring the USP handles recoil better even though you're comparing two different cartridges. I'd like to hear about horsehide belt from company A against horsehide from company B, it actually has relevance then.

Do you guys find a big difference between your horsehide and cowhide belts? The only cowhide belt I've owned was a Galco, which wasn't very supportive (though obviously much more supportive than a regular leather belt). After a year, the Galco is looking pretty beat as well...like something you'd find on a career hobo.

As to nylon riggers' belts, maybe I'll try one when I finally get a Shaggy where I can actually use one. I was only able to get my AIWB Looper because someone cancelled their order, and it's a permanent 1.5" loop so I'm not going to be using a wilderness 5-stitch with it. I don't like any of the competition for AIWB, either.


Much the same here.

I own a couple of Beltmans (both are a bit too small for me now ... oops) and a couple of leather belts from A&G. I have a shark belt from TT Gunleather. I also have a couple of Wilderness 5-stitch belts.

Personally, while the Beltman and A&G are nice my favorite non-synthetic belts so far have been from TT Gunleather.

If I'm untucked or in range wear I always have on a Wilderness 5-stitch ... always.

If I'm tucked in and need black (for work, dress, etc.) I wear the TT shark belt. If I need brown I wear an A&G.

I want to replace all my brown leather belts currently with something of the quality of the TT I own and expect a call back frim Tim this afternoon to get that rolling. Once I have it in hand I will be dumping some belts.

I did try a Jones Tactical belt briefly and found the quality very nice. However, I hated the Kobra style buckle so I dumped it. I will prob give them another chance next time I need to replace a Wilderness belt ... just no Kobra buckle this time.

[ToddG]

I was only able to get my AIWB Looper because someone cancelled their order, and it's a permanent 1.5" loop so I'm not going to be using a wilderness 5-stitch with it.

My Loopers and Shaggies are all 1.5" loop and work fine with my 5-stictch 1.5" Wilderness belt.

[JDM]

My Loopers and Shaggies are all 1.5" loop and work fine with my 5-stictch 1.5" Wilderness belt.

x2.

[TGS]

My Loopers and Shaggies are all 1.5" loop and work fine with my 5-stictch 1.5" Wilderness belt.

I thought the smallest that rigger style belts came in were 1.75". Learn something new everyday :)

[gringop]

I picked up a Beltman Shark belt in Jan 09. Been wearing it pretty much every day since then. No discoloration, no seam or stitch issues, wears like iron. Buckle is a little worn but easily replaceable. Beats the crap out of my old Don Hume basketweave.

My only issue is that the sharkskin stops about 6" from the buckle and 9" from the tongue. Would have been nice if it was full shark. I may go to a Kramer ($$$) shark when this one wears out. It may be 10 years or more.

For a riggers belt I have a 1 3/4" Tactical Taylor from www.greyghostoutlet.com. Strong as hell and cheap, too.

After looking at the Beltman site, he does not offer shark any more. Anyone have experience with Elephant?

Gringop

[VolGrad]

Volgrad,

Were your Beltman belts horsehide?

I have a brown cow Beltman and a black horse from Beltman. The horse is nicer and has worn much better than the cow.

What I've always been told (from several different belt and holster makers over the years) is horse makes a much better product than cow. However, the issue in recent years has been getting quality hides. There was time where everything US makers was receiving was crap and most either refused to accept the hides or just scrapped it and stopped making things with horse for a while. I hear the supply of quality hides is coming back though.

I experienced some issues with one maker that was trying to do me a belt in horse with these crappy hides. It took several makes to get one that was decent but in the end we just went with cow or bull, don't remember which. He pulled horse from his site for a while and I'm not even sure it's back on the site yet.

Jim (the Beltman) told me once he felt everything should be either horse or bull or exotic. I do think horse is more difficult to work (for dyeing anyway) with but it is thinner than cow (in general) and wears better. I have heard it suggested it is more water resistant so it is suggested for folks wearing in hot & humid environments. Being thinner won't matter on a belt though as gun belts will be double or triple thick with the back layers being something other than horse.

For belts ...
Between horse and either cow or bull ... I'd choose horse. Between cow or bull ... I'd choose bull. Between any quality, durable exotic (like shark, elephant, etc.) or horse, cow, or bull ... I'd choose the exotic.

I did receive a call back from Tim Thurner yesterday and we spoke for a bit. I am excited about another of his belts. Most all his belts are made now through Occidental Leather but when you've spent as much money with him as I have ....

For non-kydex holsters ...
I'd choose horse every single time if it were an option. If not, I'd choose cow hide as it still works well. I don't like exotic in holsters as the hides are thicker and make a thicker package. I don't need that.

[mnealtx]

Gringop - my only experience with elephant hide has been with boots made out of it.

There was no relative difference in flexibility between the elephant hide and cowhide used in other boots that I noticed. The elephant hide was *much* more resistant to cuts/scrapes, however.

Also, realize that the elephant (or horse) hide is going to be layered over bullhide to make the belt.