School me on the Springfield XD

[DocSabo40]

This may be obvious to everyone except me, but I don't know the answer so I want to ask: what is wrong with the XD? I did a brief google search and didn't see a lot of common issues with them, but they never get mentioned around here and they seem unpopular in general. Honestly a striker pistol with a grip safety sounds nice for AIWB carry, but I'm guessing they have some issues of which I'm not aware. So someone please school me on this, what are their know issues and why should I not buy myself one as a last-minute birthday present?

[chuckusaret]

This may be obvious to everyone except me, but I don't know the answer so I want to ask: what is wrong with the XD? I did a brief google search and didn't see a lot of common issues with them, but they never get mentioned around here and they seem unpopular in general. Honestly a striker pistol with a grip safety sounds nice for AIWB carry, but I'm guessing they have some issues of which I'm not aware. So someone please school me on this, what are their know issues and why should I not buy myself one as a last-minute birthday present?

I don't have a problem with the XD40SC w/CT laser. After carrying a S&W Model 60 for 20+ years, I switched to the XD in 2008 and have no regrets. 8,000+ rounds without a failure of any type.

[Luke]

Your going to get two types of answers. The people who love them and have never had an issue, and then the people who don't like them. I'm sure most won't like them (I don't).
I'm gonna try and keep it short and simple:

1. Grip saftey locks slide
2. Heavy
3. No one who is serious (LE..ect) uses them
4. They have failed many structured tests
5. For the price there are far better options.
6. They go well with serpas.


Disclaimer: I have never owned one. I have never participated in any testing. I personally think they're junk so my opinion is already bad of them.

[Nephrology]

I agree they aren't my first, second or even third choice for a striker pistol, but the examples I've shot were all perfectly fine guns. The XDM-40 I shot was actually the softest 40 I've ever tried. I still think there are better striker choices but if you fine one at a screaming deal you could do a lot worse.

[Robbk]

the biggest problem most seem to have with the XD series is glock is not stamped on the side. I carried one for 5 years and went through countless rounds with zero issues that could be attributed to the pistol.

[ralph]

I had a XD45 years ago, (2008, I think) and it had a few problems, weak mag springs, the total inabilty to feed LSWC bullets, ( my HK45ct fed them without a burp) I read of a few instances where someone was out riding his 4 wheeler, and got mud over the grip saftey, locking the gun up and preventing it from firing. I'm sure they've improved since I had mine, but with so many better options out there, why bother? All I can say OP is, It's your money spend it as you want, If you end up with a XD, well, I hope it works out for you....Honestly, after my experience with one, you could'nt give me one..

[VolGrad]

Your going to get two types of answers. The people who love them and have never had an issue, and then the people who don't like them. I'm sure most won't like them (I don't).
I'm gonna try and keep it short and simple:

1. Grip saftey locks slide
2. Heavy
3. No one who is serious (LE..ect) uses them
4. They have failed many structured tests
5. For the price there are far better options.
6. They go well with serpas.


Disclaimer: I have never owned one. I have never participated in any testing. I personally think they're junk so my opinion is already bad of them.
This. I had a Xmm briefly. Found most everything else I had tried to be better for me.

[FNFAN]

Eliminate Glock, HK, Walther, Smith's, Steyr, FN, Ruger and they'd be my first choice for a stiker fired pistol!

It isn't that they're terrible, its that there are so many better choices.

[Clusterfrack]

I've seen more XD/XDm failures at USPSA matches than all other polymer guns combined, and there are relatively few of them. Some of the guns could not be fixed on the range.

Recommend avoiding this gun.

[BillSWPA]

When I was looking to get my wife a gun to use for both training and self defense, I tried her out on almost every commonly available 9mm, a couple of .38 revolvers, a couple of .45 autos, a couple of .380 autos, and probably a couple of things I have forgotten to mention. Of all of them, my wife shot her Dad's XD9 best, experiencing both the most comfort while shooting and having the easiest time achieving hits. So, I bought her an XD9. Both guns have several hundred rounds through them without issues.

The grip safety has been a complete non-issue. Given the short, light trigger, having a grip safety has merit.

The only disadvantage I see is that they are blocky, which would potentially hinder concealed carry.

I am aware of at least one university-based police department that has at least allowed its officers to carry the XD. This department works in a place that would give them a reasonable likelihood of having to employ the gun under serious circumstances.

[DocSabo40]

Does anyone have more info on the structured tests that they have failed? I'm interested to hear what parts break and at what round counts.

The weight doesn't bother me, I currently AIWB a P229. How is the grip safety locking the slide an issue? I'm not sure I've ever tried to manipulate the slide on my pistols without holding the grip.

As far as the other options, I've been through most (maybe all) of them and have had various issues. I've spent the last 3 years and about 25k rounds trying to find the "perfect carry gun". The XD is the only one that I haven't tried and have no knowledge of, hence the thread.

[Arbninftry]

Save the Croation Euro-Trash for a Stripper Pole.

[DocSabo40]

Save the Croation Euro-Trash for a Stripper Pole.

I'm actually Croation.

Clusterfrack, do you recall what the malfunctions were? Striker retaining pin by chance? I've been scouring the interwebs and those are the only failures that I'm finding.

I shoot local matches (kind of a mix of USPSA and IDPA) weekly and see a few XDs out there, but they are all low round count guns with very casual shooters at the helm.

[Sero Sed Serio]

DocSabo

A few Valley area departments authorize the XD (Mesa for sure and ASU did at one point...not sure if they still do). I knew a few Mesa guys who carried 5" .45s for a while and they ran fine over a 4 or 5 year period with few or no issues, and in addition to carrying them on-duty they also spent a lot of time in the woods camping and hunting and the guns got exposed to a lot.

That being said, I think there are far better options for the reasons others have stated.

[JCS]

I started with Springfield. I never realized how heavy it was for a polymer gun until I handled a Glock. I've since switched over to all Glock now.


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[CCT125US]

I had several, and sold them all. My 40SC would deform mags under recoil. Bullet nose would contact the inner body and leave visible dents. My .45 Tac. had about 18K through it and worked well. I realized there were better options and moved on. I did bend a striker retainer pin on a 9 Tac, but that was the only parts issue. Same gun showed signs of breach face erosion, while using Remington SPP.

[Tamara]

The XD is a great $359 gun.

[Clay]

I see a lot of XD's and XDM's locally, and four or five of them are run pretty hard. I've had two of them, including an XDS that ran fine, with a couple thousand rounds through them. Our rental XDM's are great - probably the most popular rental we have. If Glock's didn't exist I'd be all in if I was looking for a striker-fired pistol. With Glock as an option, I see no point.

I'd pick an XD over a Ruger or M&P any day, based on my experience with all of them. YMMV.

[Tamara]

If an XD's grip safety were to break with a live round in the chamber, you might have to ship it to Geneseo with that live round in there, hypothetically speaking. I mean, you'd wrap it all up and include a note on the inside and hope that no postal inspector got all up in your grille about it. Hypothetically speaking, of course. Your hands might start sweating just thinking about it a dozen years later, too.

[Suvorov]

Are you thinking the XD may be able to offer you something that your SigP229 doesn't? Are you trying to solve a problem or just looking for a birthday present and wanting to explore the word of striker fired autos with a pistol that shares the same ethnic heritage as you?

If the former, I think you will find the P229 much more respected a platform than the XD. IF the latter, I get it - but I'll carry a Beretta, Sig, or HK before you will see me with a Makarov.

[ReverendMeat]

Most of my experience with them is in the 9mm variants.

Shot a few, sold thousands of them. Only reported issues were the firing pin retainer backing out, no other breakages that I can recall. Can't speak to long-term durability given most people don't shoot a whole lot. They're cheap enough, just buy two.

I wouldn't loose sleep if I had to carry one, I just don't like them. Grips are too small for me and I don't like the triggers or how the recoil impulse feels. XD(m)s are also probably the most overpriced guns on the market.

[Clusterfrack]

Yep. Striker retaining pin but also other issues like FTF and FTE that are more typical of 1911/2011s

[ReverendMeat]

If an XD's grip safety were to break with a live round in the chamber, you might have to ship it to Geneseo with that live round in there, hypothetically speaking. I mean, you'd wrap it all up and include a note on the inside and hope that no postal inspector got all up in your grille about it. Hypothetically speaking, of course. Your hands might start sweating just thinking about it a dozen years later, too.

I can't imagine a particular breakage that would make it impossible to unload the gun. If the safety were to just.. poop itself out of the gun, the gun would still be perfectly functional. If the exposed portion of the safety broke off you could just stick a screwdriver up through the slot and push around whatever's left.

[Tamara]

I can't imagine a particular breakage that would make it impossible to unload the gun. If the safety were to just.. poop itself out of the gun, the gun would still be perfectly functional. If the exposed portion of the safety broke off you could just stick a screwdriver up through the slot and push around whatever's left.

All I know is that the safety was physically still in the gun, trigger couldn't be pulled, slide could not be racked. At some point the decision was made to just say "Screw it," and let SA deal with their own gun. Customer got a replacement gat, IIRC, but I don't recollect what the official diagnosis was.

[Clay]

I wonder if the XD line would be more popular on P-F if Rob Leatham was a member here, in the way that Ernest Langdon has turned so many people around concerning the Beretta PX4, which didn't have much interest, if any, before he started posting? Just a thought.

[Luke]

I wonder if the XD line would be more popular on P-F if Rob Leatham was a member here, in the way that Ernest Langdon has turned so many people around concerning the Beretta PX4, which didn't have much interest, if any, before he started posting? Just a thought.


The difference between that is the PX4 wrongfully got a bad rap, a good guy helped show us its awesome. The XD is junk, no matter who says it's not :)

And just to show you I'm not swayed by the big names and what they say is good, I game a sig and have a rather large man crush on Ben stoeger.

[ReverendMeat]

All I know is that the safety was physically still in the gun, trigger couldn't be pulled, slide could not be racked. At some point the decision was made to just say "Screw it," and let SA deal with their own gun. Customer got a replacement gat, IIRC, but I don't recollect what the official diagnosis was.

Damn, I wonder what happened there. Glad I haven't had to deal with that one, customers bringing in loaded broke (or "broke" depending) guns was not my favorite thing.

[Tamara]

I wonder if the XD line would be more popular on P-F if Rob Leatham was a member here, in the way that Ernest Langdon has turned so many people around concerning the Beretta PX4, which didn't have much interest, if any, before he started posting? Just a thought.

The difference there is that the PX4 Compact does something nothing else on the market does right now, which is be a hammer-fired DA/SA lightweight plastic pistol in the ever-popular G19-size class. The XD is just another striker-fired gun that doesn't even enjoy the big price advantage it used to. If you're shopping the XD head-to-head, or only a few bucks apart, against the Glock and the P320, it loses a lot of its luster. The GS might be a selling point for safer re-holstering, but because it also locks the slide, it causes problems with some one-hand manipulations and even gives a few people fever shooting WHO.

[breakingtime91]

I feel like we have done this before... My step brother recently bought two xds.. I pleaded with him and spent a day trying to convince him to get a glock instead. Some people you just can't reason with. The truth is XDs are not as good as the competition. We can go into the little details as to why but the truth is they are not as durable, more expensive, and have a fatal flaw that is the grip safety. Unless u have a awesome grip, that gun will fuck you over. Anyone who has ever had shit go side ways on them knows that stuff never goes to plan, including the piece of shit grip safety on your xd. If you want to keep it and use it cool, but there is a reason the professionals don't use it.

[breakingtime91]

I can't imagine a particular breakage that would make it impossible to unload the gun. If the safety were to just.. poop itself out of the gun, the gun would still be perfectly functional. If the exposed portion of the safety broke off you could just stick a screwdriver up through the slot and push around whatever's left.

buddies ejector and grip safety broke, had to send it to springfield witha live round in it.

[JCS]

What's the issue with the Springfield grip safety that makes it different than the 1911?


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[Nephrology]

buddies ejector and grip safety broke, had to send it to springfield witha live round in it.

Was he at least able to pull the firing pin out ? If not I would probably hold that return package at arms length, pointed to the ground..

[breakingtime91]

Was he at least able to pull the firing pin out ? If not I would probably hold that return package at arms length, pointed to the ground..

As i recall (this was 2012) he was on the phone with the armorer from springfield and they basically said fuck it, pack it in bubble rap and send it back in a holster.

[HopetonBrown]

I recall Louis Awerbuck saying that when he sent it in for the grip safety recall he included a note saying that they could keep it.

[ReverendMeat]

What's the issue with the Springfield grip safety that makes it different than the 1911?


Besides the 1911's safety being more robust and less prone to breakage (which indeed seems to be an issue with the XD, albeit one that I've never seen), the 1911 grip safety blocks the back of the trigger bar when engaged (not depressed), preventing rearward movement of the trigger. The XD grip safety blocks the bottom of the sear when engaged, preventing the sear from rotating downward. An odd "feature" of the XD is that the safety prevents the slide from being retracted more than a centimeter or so, as the sear isn't able to be pushed down out of the way by the slide due to the safety being engaged.

[M2CattleCo]

I had one way back in the early 2000s. Mine was an HS2000 with no rail and I had a pile of pre-ban M9 mags cut for the mag catch. Mine ate about 10K rounds of fmj the year I had it with one stovepipe. I learned a lot with that pistol.

The only other pistol I owned prior was a Beretta 96, so I enjoyed it until I was able to get into something better.

[DocSabo40]

Are you thinking the XD may be able to offer you something that your SigP229 doesn't? Are you trying to solve a problem or just looking for a birthday present and wanting to explore the word of striker fired autos with a pistol that shares the same ethnic heritage as you?

If the former, I think you will find the P229 much more respected a platform than the XD. IF the latter, I get it - but I'll carry a Beretta, Sig, or HK before you will see me with a Makarov.

Mostly looking to solve a problem, the problem being that I have been re-evaluating DA/SA for carry for a number of reasons, and I'm considering going back to a striker gun. The XD is the only option that I have not shot a lot so I wanted to explore it as a possibility.

I don't really care that the gun is from Croatia, I just don't view it as a negative.

[Cincinnatus]

I'm actually Croation.

Do you want a medal, or a chest to pin it on? ;):D:cool:

[Al T.]

I don't think anyone has an issue with the country of origin, but as Tamara alluded, lots of folks were a bit shocked when the HS2000 went from an inexpensive handgun to an expensive one upon SA getting the US distributor rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HS2000

[BJXDS]

I don't think anyone has an issue with the country of origin, but as Tamara alluded, lots of folks were a bit shocked when the HS2000 went from an inexpensive handgun to an expensive one upon SA getting the US distributor rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HS2000


Capitalism...... but seriously there is a cost for SA to market and support it, but double the price??

[BillSWPA]

Capitalism...... but seriously there is a cost for SA to market and support it, but double the price??

Advertising is expensive and necessary although it doesn't translate into a consumer benefit.

[Tamara]

I can readily accept the increased cost of promotion, better packaging, and actual customer support, but...

(I also remember that, back during the dark days of the AWB, the HS2000 used still cheap-and-plentiful Beretta 92 mags with a little bit of modification, while Glock 17/19 pre-ban mags were often $50-$100 a pop.)

[Al T.]

Bit of a side note, but our Springfield Armory rep and I talked about which departments were using XDs and SA's efforts to submit XDs for department contracts. He told me that SA had very, very little interest in such and that their LE rep was one person who had that task part time. Beaufort SC PD carries XDs in .45 ACP, but AFAIK, that's the only on in SC.

[Casual Friday]

Mostly looking to solve a problem, the problem being that I have been re-evaluating DA/SA for carry for a number of reasons, and I'm considering going back to a striker gun. The XD is the only option that I have not shot a lot so I wanted to explore it as a possibility.

I don't really care that the gun is from Croatia, I just don't view it as a negative.

Well in my time working at a gun shop, we sold more Hi Points than XD's, but we had more XD's come back to be sent in to get fixed. I never would have believed the ratio unless I'd seen it with my own two eyes.

What has you reevaluating DA/SA for carry?

[VolGrad]

Well in my time working at a gun shop, we sold more Hi Points than XD's, but we had more XD's come back to be sent in to get fixed. I never would have believed the ratio unless I'd seen it with my own two eyes.
Well duh .... Hi Points are throw down guns. Everyone knows that. :p

[RevolverRob]

The one thing I've never liked about the XD is that the grip safety locks the slide. Other than that I've never had severe issues with XDs. I spent quite a bit of time shooting a buddy's XD40 full size and found it to be nice to shoot, better than a Glock 22. Is the XD an ugly gun? You bet. Is it the most robust design on the planet? No, but is it better than most guns in its price range? Yes. Would I buy one? Actually, you know, I might. Particularly if my choice was between an XD and some of the Walthers, the Caniks, or an M&P. The one thing a 9mm XD can do that an M&P9FS can't do is shoot straight...

FYI, I checked Buds on a whim - a full size 9mm XD is $416, a Gen4 G19 is $547 from Buds. That's $130 difference which buys 3 spare magazines (~$22/each), a holster (Blade-Tec Nano IWB $60) - And leaves you enough change for a soda.

[Clay]

Bit of a side note, but our Springfield Armory rep and I talked about which departments were using XDs and SA's efforts to submit XDs for department contracts. He told me that SA had very, very little interest in such and that their LE rep was one person who had that task part time. Beaufort SC PD carries XDs in .45 ACP, but AFAIK, that's the only on in SC.

AGENCIES ISSUING THE XD/XDM (2010):

ABERDEEN TWP NJ PD
ARENAC Co MI SHERIFF’S DEPT
BEDFORD TX PD
BEVERLY HILLS CA PD
BOLIVAR Co MS SHERIFF’S DEPT
BOONE IA PD
BUTLER TWP PA PD
CAMERON PARISH LA SHERIFF’S DEPT
CASTLE ROCK CO PD
CEREDO WV PD
CHEYENNE RIVER SIOUX SD TRIBAL POLICE
CLEVELAND MS PD
DOWNINGTOWN PA PD
DUKE ENERGY - OCONEE SC SITE
DUKE ENERGY - CATAWBA SC SITE
DUKE ENERGY - MCGUIRE NC SITE
EL MONTE CA PD
GALVA IL PD
GENEVA IN PD
GLOSTER MS PD
GOODLETTSVILLE TN PD
GRAND CHUTE WI PD
GRANITE FALLS NC PD
GROTON CT PD
HOLLANDALE MS PD
KEWANEE IL PD
KETTERING OH PD
LEE Co NC SHERIFF’S DEPT
LINCOLN IL PD
LOUISA Co IA SHERIFF’S DEPT
LOWELL IN PD
LUNA Co NM SHERIFF’S DEPT
MEXICO MO PD:
NEWAYGO MI PD
NEWAYGO Co MI SHERIFF’S DEPT
NICHOLASVILLE KY PD
OKLAHOMA STATE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
OSAWATOMIE KS PD:
PERKINS TWP OH PD:
PERRYVILLE MD PD
PIMA AZ PD
RAYMOND MS PD
RIDGEFIELD BORO NJ PD
RIDGELAND MS PD
SIGNAL MOUNTAIN TN PD
SISKIYOU Co CA SHERIFF’S DEPT
SISKIYOU Co CA PROBATION
SMYRNA TN PD
SOUTHERN REGIONAL PA PD
SOUTHINGTON CT PD
SUMMERS Co WV SHERIFF’S DEPT
SYLVANIA OH PD
TRANSYLVANIA UNIVERSITY PD KY
UNIVERSITY OF AL BIRMINGHAM PD
USDA-APHIS DIV TX BORDER PATROL
VENUS TX PD
VERNON CA PD
WEBB MS PD
WEBSTER CITY IA PD
WICHITA KS PD:
WICHITA KS AIRPORT AUTHORITY
WINCHESTER TN PD
WINDSOR HEIGHTS IA PD
WOOD Co OH SHERIFF’S DEPT
WYANET IL PD


AGENCIES APPROVING THE XD/XDM:

AUDUBON Co IA SHERIFF’S DEPT
BALDWIN PARK CA PD
BEAUFORT Co NC SHERIFF’S DEPT
BEAUMONT TX PD
BOULDER Co CO SHERIFF’S DEPT:
CALIFORNIA OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL
CHICAGO IL PD
COLLIER Co FL SHERIFF’S DEPT
DENVER CO PD
DES MOINES IA PD
DULUTH MN PD
ELKHORN NE PD
FOND DU LAC MN CONSERVATION DEPT
FREER TX PD
GARFIELD Co CO SHERIFF’S DEPT
GREENSBORO OH PD
HARLAN Co NE SHERIFF’S DEPT
HENDERSON NV PD
HOUSTON TX PD
HOWE TX PD
HURON OH PD
IDAHO Co ID SHERIFF’S DEPT
JEFFERSON Co CO SHERIFF’S DEPT:
LAS VEGAS NV PD:
LACLEDE Co MO SHERIFF’S DEPT
MARSHALL WI PD
MATAWAN BOROUGH NJ PD
MAYAGUEZ PUERTO RICO PD
MESA AZ PD
OHIO DNR
OKLAHOMA CITY OK PD
ORLAND HILLS IL PD: JIM MOLLOY
PAROWAN CITY UT PD
PIMA Co AZ SHERIFF’S DEPT
PUERTO RICO DOC
RENO NV PD
SALINA MI PD
TAOS NM PD
TARRANT AL PD
TERREBONNE PARISH LA SHERIFF’S DEPT
SALT LAKE Co UT SHERIFF’S DEPT:
SAN DIEGO CA PD
SHAW MS PD
SILVERTHORNE CO PD
SILVIS IL PD
SOMERSET WI PD
WASHOE Co NV SHERIFF’S DEPT
UHRICHSVILLE OH PD
WEXFORD Co MI SHERIFF’S DEPT

STATE APPROVED:
The XD has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is Certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice.

A bit out of date, but it's the latest info I could find. Mostly smaller dept's it seems.

Also -

http://www.xdforum.com/The-Springfield-XD-for-Law-Enforcement.html

[DocSabo40]

Well in my time working at a gun shop, we sold more Hi Points than XD's, but we had more XD's come back to be sent in to get fixed. I never would have believed the ratio unless I'd seen it with my own two eyes.

What has you reevaluating DA/SA for carry?

Ouch! That's pretty bad.

I don't want to derail my own thread too bad, but mostly:
1. Expense. My P229 Legion was $1050. With how much I practice and dry-fire my carry gun is getting beat pretty bad. I'd like at least one duplicate, ideally 2. Much easier with a $500 gun on a students budget. I would consider cheaper DA/SA guns, but the triggers that I've tried on them are horrid.

2. DA pull at distance from the draw. I have been practicing a lot with the method of getting on the trigger early, right when my hands come together. I saw it in a Langdon video. This has my draw time to A-zone at 25 yards to within about .3 seconds of my VP9 time, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this method outside of competition. In a well-controlled environment getting on the trigger early is fine, but if my adrenaline was at 100000% I doubt my ability to perfectly regulate my trigger finger pressure to ensure a break right at extension. Im not saying the method is bad, I'm saying that it may not work for me. So lately I have been keeping my finger completely off the trigger until the sights are roughly aligned, then pressing through the DA pull. For me, this is a lot slower than doing the same thing with a striker gun.

3. SHO/WHO DA at distance. Takes forever to make a good hit. Without my 2nd strong hand for support, It takes a while to roll through the DA pull and not disturb the sights once the target is out at 25+ yards.

[Luke]

List seems big, but with over 17,000 law enforcement agencies in America, that's a tiny list.

[Clay]

I asked around last night and this morning to see what some of the different trainers think about the XD, and if they see many in class.

Gunsite see's quite a few and they run fine.

John Farnham has a lot of them in classes and they do very well. John said as far as he's concerned, they work as well as the Glock.

Several other local, small-time instructors that use our indoor range have seen no big problems, as long as they are not dicked with. A lot of people are buying goofy spring kits for them and this causes problems, as well as improper installation, etc.

I'm not trying to champion the XD here or anything, I just think there is a hell of a lot of groupthink, and b.s. spread around about them on the interwebs. A third hand story is perfectly valid regarding an XD, and taken as gospel, but do the same for an HK or Glock and get piled on. Absolutely just my opinion guys, not trying to start a war over it. Like the XD or not, they are a gun that you can buy and count on them being reliable right out of the box 99% of the time, which is pretty awesome from where I sit. I remember a time in the gun world where the standard advice regarding new autos was to get a 1911 and spend a few hundred fixing it and see what happens. I also remember a time in 2012 when my new Glock wouldn't run, and my new S&W M&P grouped around 6" or so in a rest at 20 yds, all while a friend's XD's were doing great. All guns are imperfect, and every brand has a glitch here and there, but I'm glad we have lots of choices nowadays, and most of them are pretty good. Just my thoughts.

[RevolverRob]

FWIW last time I trained with Clint Smith he was using a 5" XD45 in class, which he said he liked quite a bit as an ugly carry gun and had zero issues with his. I noted the only thing about Clint's gun was the loaded-chamber indicator had been removed. When I asked him about it, he said the thing had cut him with reaching over the slide to rack it, so he removed it, makes sense to me. I've always thought LCIs are superfluous features on guns anyways.

There are two XD models that make sense to me more than any other in the line. The 5" XD45 Compact - which has the compact grip and a full size barrel and the 4" XD45 Compact, same story. Both of them remind me a bit of "poor man's CCO". And make a lot of sense as carry guns. I wish Springfield would do the same thing in 9mm.

[VolGrad]

My dad sent me a text the other day saying he had bought a new XDS .45acp. He's a very casual shooter so I didn't get too concerned about it. I figure it will go to the range a couple of times until the new wears off then will go in the safe with the rest.

[ReverendMeat]

Ouch! That's pretty bad.

I don't want to derail my own thread too bad, but mostly:
1. Expense. My P229 Legion was $1050. With how much I practice and dry-fire my carry gun is getting beat pretty bad. I'd like at least one duplicate, ideally 2. Much easier with a $500 gun on a students budget. I would consider cheaper DA/SA guns, but the triggers that I've tried on them are horrid.

2. DA pull at distance from the draw. I have been practicing a lot with the method of getting on the trigger early, right when my hands come together. I saw it in a Langdon video. This has my draw time to A-zone at 25 yards to within about .3 seconds of my VP9 time, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this method outside of competition. In a well-controlled environment getting on the trigger early is fine, but if my adrenaline was at 100000% I doubt my ability to perfectly regulate my trigger finger pressure to ensure a break right at extension. Im not saying the method is bad, I'm saying that it may not work for me. So lately I have been keeping my finger completely off the trigger until the sights are roughly aligned, then pressing through the DA pull. For me, this is a lot slower than doing the same thing with a striker gun.

3. SHO/WHO DA at distance. Takes forever to make a good hit. Without my 2nd strong hand for support, It takes a while to roll through the DA pull and not disturb the sights once the target is out at 25+ yards.

Regarding point #1, I would strongly recommend the SIG SP2022. Same price as a Glock (sometimes less), reliable, and IMO have the smoothest DA triggers out of the entire SIG lineup.

You might be able to talk me into trading you mine straight across for your Legion 229 :)

[Casual Friday]

Ouch! That's pretty bad.

I don't want to derail my own thread too bad, but mostly:
1. Expense. My P229 Legion was $1050. With how much I practice and dry-fire my carry gun is getting beat pretty bad. I'd like at least one duplicate, ideally 2. Much easier with a $500 gun on a students budget. I would consider cheaper DA/SA guns, but the triggers that I've tried on them are horrid.

2. DA pull at distance from the draw. I have been practicing a lot with the method of getting on the trigger early, right when my hands come together. I saw it in a Langdon video. This has my draw time to A-zone at 25 yards to within about .3 seconds of my VP9 time, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this method outside of competition. In a well-controlled environment getting on the trigger early is fine, but if my adrenaline was at 100000% I doubt my ability to perfectly regulate my trigger finger pressure to ensure a break right at extension. Im not saying the method is bad, I'm saying that it may not work for me. So lately I have been keeping my finger completely off the trigger until the sights are roughly aligned, then pressing through the DA pull. For me, this is a lot slower than doing the same thing with a striker gun.

3. SHO/WHO DA at distance. Takes forever to make a good hit. Without my 2nd strong hand for support, It takes a while to roll through the DA pull and not disturb the sights once the target is out at 25+ yards.

If you want a good budget DA/SA to train with, the Sig SP2022 is a fantastic choice. Both of mine have great triggers. With that said, SHO/WHO training, and not being able to effectively and efficiently decock WHO are a couple reasons I switched to a P2000 LEM. Another option which is probably not what you were looking for but the P2000 LEM seems to have solved a bunch of struggles I was having.

[DocSabo40]

Regarding point #1, I would strongly recommend the SIG SP2022. Same price as a Glock (sometimes less), reliable, and IMO have the smoothest DA triggers out of the entire SIG lineup.

You might be able to talk me into trading you mine straight across for your Legion 229 :)

Never going to happen! My 229 Legion is my favorite gun that I have owned, I just can't perform with it up to the level that I can with soulless plastic striker garbage :). Really, I could probably deal with point #1 by cutting back on my sushi habit, it's really #2 and #3 that bug me.

[Casual Friday]

Regarding point #1, I would strongly recommend the SIG SP2022. Same price as a Glock (sometimes less), reliable, and IMO have the smoothest DA triggers out of the entire SIG lineup.

You might be able to talk me into trading you mine straight across for your Legion 229 :)

Beat me to it, I had my reply in the works in between fixing lunch for my kids but I completely agree. Although locally, the SP2022 is usually $100 or more cheaper than a Glock. I paid $379 for my first with contrast sights and $399 for one with Sig lite night sights on sale, but I know they've gone up some since. Glocks fetch $549-599 here.

[Clay]

My dad sent me a text the other day saying he had bought a new XDS .45acp. He's a very casual shooter so I didn't get too concerned about it. I figure it will go to the range a couple of times until the new wears off then will go in the safe with the rest.

It'll get to the safe pretty quick I bet. They are pretty brutal in .45 acp, and do not tolerate any kind of limp wristing. Very accurate little pistols though, and really easy to hide.

[HopetonBrown]

It's weird how popular XDs are with casual/new shooters at my local public range, but are almost completely absent in classes or matches.

[VolGrad]

It'll get to the safe pretty quick I bet. They are pretty brutal in .45 acp, and do not tolerate any kind of limp wristing. Very accurate little pistols though, and really easy to hide.
That's been my experience with most any small .45acp. I warned him but it was after the fact so ....

It's weird how popular XDs are with casual/new shooters at my local public range, but are almost completely absent in classes or matches.
Not really weird. XDs are very popular with novice shooters although I still for the life of me can't figure out why. The guys that actually take classes or shoot matches generally know better.

[ReverendMeat]

Not really weird. XDs are very popular with novice shooters although I still for the life of me can't figure out why.

Because they're basically a Glock only better 'cause they're made in the U.S.

I've had an unfortunate number of people tell me that :/

[RevolverRob]

Because they're basically a Glock only better 'cause they're made in the U.S.

I've had an unfortunate number of people tell me that :/

If I had a top complaint against Springfield Armory it is and always has been this. Their marketing department is top notch at implying that every gun SA makes is made right here in the good old United States in Geneseo, Illinois, by good, hard working, blue collar Americans. And the reality couldn't be farther from the truth, with some 80% of their product line being made in Croatia or Brazil. But the Springfield Armory marketing folks have never let that get in the way of some good ad copy and sales.

Which is why I won't buy a Springfield Armory gun, any of them. It just rubs me the wrong way. The number of times I flipped a SA 1911 over to show a customer "Made in Brazil" and watched them flip out, "WHAT?! This a SPRINGFIELD ARMORY! It's supposed to be made in the USA!" or flipped over an XD and had the same response. It's too many for me to not recognize that what Springfield is doing, is capitalizing on their name and hiding their "Made In" marks on the underside of the dustcover where they are hard to see. It doesn't matter if the Croatian or Brazilian built guns are of equal of higher quality than some American guns. Springfield Armory, in my opinion, deliberately obfuscates where they make their guns to take advantage of the consumer, caveat emptor must apply to Springfield Armory products.

[rjohnson4405]

I'm surprised at the number of people claiming the XD gets a bad wrap because their small sample size experience is contradictory.

They tried and failed in number of larger tests when they had a chance to really grab a share of the Glock market.

MAYBE they have gotten better, but still no MAJOR contracts won by them so why risk it when there are guns that do what they do at least as well for the same price or cheaper?

If you're willing to risk a little bit to run the platform on a sample size of one or a few, great, go for it. But don't pretend there aren't documented facts for why the have the reputation they do.

And just because respected gamers run them doesn't mean they came out of the box 100% or that your gun acquiring experience and after sale support is the same as theirs. Plenty of gamers will fight a platform for advantages that have nothing to do with durability/reliabilty.

[ReverendMeat]

Springfield Armory, in my opinion, deliberately obfuscates where they make their guns to take advantage of the consumer, caveat emptor must apply to Springfield Armory products.

In the case of the XD at least, it says plain as day MADE IN CROATIA right there on the gun. No amount of IMPLIED "made in the USA" in their advertising can obfuscate what is perfectly obvious to anyone who can read. I'm not shedding any tears for people who fall for it. Dumb customers will be dumb, all marketing everywhere is designed to exploit them. More power to SA as it seems to be working.

[BillSWPA]

There was a request earlier in this thread for information about all those tests the XD allegedly failed. I am curious as well.

Re: small sample sizes, some of those claiming they are junk apparently have smaller sample sizes.

[Cincinnatus]

I have had their mags and baseplates fall apart on a few drops on a carpeted (concrete underneath) floor.
If the mags are that bad, does it even matter what else the pistol is or is not?

[Clay]

All of my Mec-Gar 18-round Beretta mags like to self-destruct when dropped. These are the mags that most of the experts recommend. Meanwhile my 2010 Checkmates work great and are bulletproof.

My first Glock pistol came with mags that didn't work - Glock literally told me to chunk them in the trash, and sent me new ones.

My first S&W M&P came with magazines that had the wrong springs and followers installed.

Just sayin.

[HCM]

There was a request earlier in this thread for information about all those tests the XD allegedly failed. I am curious as well.

Re: small sample sizes, some of those claiming they are junk apparently have smaller sample sizes.

The original XD design was tested in 9mm, .357 SIG and .40 the last round of DHS pistol testing 10 years ago. Official results were covered by NDA's but suffice to say none of the guns completed the tests. They suffered numerous parts breakages and
literally fell apart.

Are the XDM and XDS better than the original XD? Good question. What I've seen says no but the NYPD recently approved the XDS 9mm as an option off duty and back up gun. This the closest I'm aware of to major LE use.

[Clay]

I'm surprised at the number of people claiming the XD gets a bad wrap because their small sample size experience is contradictory.

They tried and failed in number of larger tests when they had a chance to really grab a share of the Glock market.

MAYBE they have gotten better, but still no MAJOR contracts won by them so why risk it when there are guns that do what they do at least as well for the same price or cheaper?

If you're willing to risk a little bit to run the platform on a sample size of one or a few, great, go for it. But don't pretend there aren't documented facts for why the have the reputation they do.

And just because respected gamers run them doesn't mean they came out of the box 100% or that your gun acquiring experience and after sale support is the same as theirs. Plenty of gamers will fight a platform for advantages that have nothing to do with durability/reliabilty.

You'll have to educate me on the lost contracts and failed tests.

Springfield Armory not entering to win contracts is not the same as losing them.

My sample size exceeds a few. I spent some time and did some research before I decided I would recommend them.

I know of no documented facts about the XD at all concerning their negative reputation on a few forums. Someone may want to let the folks at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, DTI, and several other gun schools know how bad they are.

Rob Leatham is certainly respected - you got me there.

[Tamara]

I asked around last night and this morning to see what some of the different trainers think about the XD, and if they see many in class.

Gosh, Clay, thanks for that. I'd never thought to do that in the last sixteen years, or to take note of my own experiences, trivial though they are.


I'm not trying to champion the XD here or anything, I just think there is a hell of a lot of groupthink...

I've had, and this may seem shocking, this opinion before there was any pistol-forum group with which to think.

[HCM]

You'll have to educate me on the lost contracts and failed tests.

Springfield Armory not entering to win contracts is not the same as losing them.

My sample size exceeds a few. I spent some time and did some research before I decided I would recommend them.

I know of no documented facts about the XD at all concerning their negative reputation on a few forums. Someone may want to let the folks at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, DTI, and several other gun schools know how bad they are.

Rob Leatham is certainly respected - you got me there.

Rob Leatham is / was a factory sponsored shooter for team Springfield.

SA has competed for LE contracts in the past, as noted above they participated unsuccessfully in the last round of DHS handgun testing 10 years ago.

The XD series are generally accurate and have decent triggers making them fairly "shoot-able" but the durability issues with the guns and mags combined with the grip safety locking the slide makes them a no-go for me outside a range gun.

I agree the original HS -2000 was a great gun for the money at $299 - for the current price of an XDM there are just so many better choices.

[Clay]

Gosh, Clay, thanks for that. I'd never thought to do that in the last sixteen years, or to take note of my own experiences, trivial though they are.



I've had, and this may seem shocking, this opinion before there was any pistol-forum group with which to think.

Tam I wasn't directing any of my comments at you or P-F directly, that's why I said forums and interwebs. :)

Again, I wouldn't recommend a XD over a Glock, but the XD/XDM line are good guns in my opinion. Just an opinion, but I didn't just pull it out of my ass, or act like a parrot and spout off anecdotes from a decade ago trying to tow the party line, or try to disparage a brand by calling them Eurotrash - not helpful to anyone. Like the saying goes, everyone's a victim of their experience, or lack thereof. I do try to get some before I recommend something, or spout off about how crappy it is.

[DocSabo40]

This has turned into a pretty interesting thread. For me personally it has become academic though. I went gun browsing/shopping earlier and handled a few XD Mod2's. The grip just didn't work for me, and the mag release was sticky even without a mag in it. The trigger reset distance was also a little long. Whatever they may have going right, the ergonomics and trigger made it a no-go for me.

[Clay]

Rob Leatham is / was a factory sponsored shooter for team Springfield.

SA has competed for LE contracts in the past, as noted above they participated unsuccessfully in the last round of DHS handgun testing 10 years ago.

The XD series are generally accurate and have decent triggers making them fairly "shoot-able" but the durability issues with the guns and mags combined with the grip safety locking the slide makes them a no-go for me outside a range gun.

I agree the original HS -2000 was a great gun for the money at $299 - for the current price of an XDM there are just so many better choices.

I have seen no durability issues, nor have I read any accounts of failures during testing, or widespread issues. They certainly may exist but no one seems to have anything other than anecdotes. Failing a contract 10 years ago doesn't bother me. Other well known and loved brands fail tests, too. Sometimes the tests themselves are a bit unrealistic in nature.

I'm not a fan of the grip safety, or the goofy loaded chamber indicator. Neither of them pose much of a problem, in my opinion.

They are overpriced, especially the XDM. The new XD Mod. 2 service goes for around $429-499 locally, which is not terribly overpriced to me.

[HCM]

I have seen no durability issues, nor have I read any accounts of failures during testing, or widespread issues. They certainly may exist but no one seems to have anything other than anecdotes. Failing a contract 10 years ago doesn't bother me. Other well known and loved brands fail tests, too. Sometimes the tests themselves are a bit unrealistic in nature.

I'm not a fan of the grip safety, or the goofy loaded chamber indicator. Neither of them pose much of a problem, in my opinion.

They are overpriced, especially the XDM. The new XD Mod. 2 service goes for around $429-499 locally, which is not terribly overpriced to me.

The majority of cops and soldiers may not all be the greatest shots but institutional users put the majority of rounds down range, even in the U.S. The lack of institutional users is directly related to the lack of widespread reports of failure.

My agency conducted the DHS testing - my info regarding failures of the XD guns during that testing is not something I looked up on the Internet.

Truth is for most gun owners who shoot a few hundred rounds a year the XD should be fine.

For $429 to $499 I can buy a Glock gen 3, M&P, SIG 320 or FNS if I shop around.

The XD-S is the only XD model in which the grip safety does not lock the slide. I was disappointed they did not extend this design to the Gen2 grip zone guns.

[KeeFus]

AGENCIES ISSUING THE XD/XDM (2010):


...LEE Co NC SHERIFF’S DEPT...
http://www.xdforum.com/The-Springfield-XD-for-Law-Enforcement.html

From what I was told yesterday they're going Sig P320's...although I havent confirmed it. Their Sheriff is a failry squared away dude and Im sure he made the change as soon as he could. That said, only 1 LE agency in this state issuing them is not a resounding endorsement...

I spoke to one of their guys a few years ago about the XD's they issue. He relayed a story about having to beat one with a mallet to get it apart because of the grip safety. He was less than impressed with the pistol. They have issues...and I wouldn't consider them for serious use, especially LE duty.

I had one and after shooting it a couple times promptly traded it for a G19.

[Tamara]

I have seen no durability issues, nor have I read any accounts of failures during testing, or widespread issues. They certainly may exist but no one seems to have anything other than anecdotes.

When I see stuff happen with my own eyes, it's stuff that happened in front of my own eyes. When I relay it to someone else, it becomes anecdote. What credence they then choose to put in said anecdotes is up to them. ;)

[Clay]

I can't believe I figured out how to do this. I AM NOT saying XD's are better than HK's - Just fuckin with you guys :)

[Tamara]

"I don't like your anecdata. I'm gonna call John Farnham and get his anecdata instead."

Hey, what do you think about Steyrs (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2016/06/when-i-was-arranging-delivery-of-wilson.html)? :D

[1slow]

I am reminded of Colonel Cooper's comment years ago,'' The difference in price between a good pistol and an inadequate one would not buy dinner for 4 in a good restaurant."
20 years ago I suggested people on a low budget buy police trade in revolvers that were mechanically sound but holster worn. The current equivalent is probably a used Glock 17/19 etc...

[Nephrology]

I am reminded of Colonel Cooper's comment years ago,'' The difference in price between a good pistol and an inadequate one would not buy dinner for 4 in a good restaurant."
20 years ago I suggested people on a low budget buy police trade in revolvers that were mechanically sound but holster worn. The current equivalent is probably a used Glock 17/19 etc...

I still buy police trade in revolvers with holster wear... I think only 1 (perhaps 2) of my 6 glocks are police trade ins. The 9mms don't stick around long enough to be good surplus fodder. and the .40s.... been down that road once, only have the G4G35 left. Stil l not sure how I feel about it.

[Tamara]

...and the .40s.... been down that road once, only have the G4G35 left. Stil l not sure how I feel about it.

It's a great host gun for 9x19 and .357SIG conversion barrels. (And, yes, I'm the neurotic sort who changes ejectors, extractors, and RSAs to match. :eek: )

I will note that at the local shows, the FFLs who do a lot of business in po-po trade-in guns know which way the wind is blowing. LE trade-in Glock 22 and 23 models are usually in the $359-399 range, while the G19s and G17s are $429-$459, asking price...

[1slow]

Totally overlooked the .40 Glocks.

[HCM]

Around here I can buy a Gen 3 Glock 22 for $329.00 and a PD trade in M&P 40 for under $400.

[ReverendMeat]

At my local Cabela's today I saw a SIG P220 at $420 and an XD subcompact .40 at thirty bucks MORE.

Wtf.

[KeeFus]

From what I was told yesterday they're going Sig P320's...although I havent confirmed it.

Confirmed. Bottom of page 2: http://www.leecountync.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=dVxXCFOfDbU%3D&tabid=85

[Nephrology]

It's a great host gun for 9x19 and .357SIG conversion barrels. (And, yes, I'm the neurotic sort who changes ejectors, extractors, and RSAs to match. :eek: )

I will note that at the local shows, the FFLs who do a lot of business in po-po trade-in guns know which way the wind is blowing. LE trade-in Glock 22 and 23 models are usually in the $359-399 range, while the G19s and G17s are $429-$459, asking price...

Oh, I an keeping the G35 for USPSA - just not ready to try to vet another .40 cal glock for carry again. too disappointing.

[rjohnson4405]

I have seen no durability issues, nor have I read any accounts of failures during testing, or widespread issues. They certainly may exist but no one seems to have anything other than anecdotes. Failing a contract 10 years ago doesn't bother me. Other well known and loved brands fail tests, too. Sometimes the tests themselves are a bit unrealistic in nature.

...

So, vetted people on the forum who participate in firearm testing and acquisition giving their personal experience is worth less than your word for it?

Yeah, that's group-think. :rolleyes:

If you have some facts or data that contradicts the most recent stuff that's out there, we'd love to see it.

If you, personally DON'T care about the facts and value your personal experience more, great! Rock on. But accusing of us making something up, being "parrot", or participating in group-think is borderline retarded behavior.

[Clay]

Point me to the most recent stuff that's out there, that's all I'm asking. I see no data in this thread steering me away from them, other than HCM mentioning the DHS test a decade ago, with no report of what failed on the XD - I still value his input and opinion, but it's not enough info to scare me away from them.

I don't doubt anyone's experiences with them, I just don't see much real data in this thread, other than "I don't like them" or "I bought one and shot it a couple times and traded it in". That's literally what I'm reading in this thread.

I'm certainly not just going on my personal experiences - reread my posts - but, my most recent experiences with the XD are today, watching people shoot them...

[Clay]

"I don't like your anecdata. I'm gonna call John Farnham and get his anecdata instead."

Hey, what do you think about Steyrs (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2016/06/when-i-was-arranging-delivery-of-wilson.html)? :D

I'll take John's volume of experience with seeing the XD's in class over what's being posted as data on the forums. Bet ya a dollar he's seen more of them sling lead downrange than most everyone posting about them in this thread. :)

Everyone's opinion is valuable, just some more than others. ;)

[Tamara]

Bet ya a dollar he's seen more of them sling lead downrange than most everyone posting about them in this thread. :)

How many classes does he teach a year? How many students per class? What percentage are XDs?

Someone who works at a ten- or twelve-lane indoor range 40 hours a week is going to see different things than someone who teaches ten- and twelve-person classes 60 hours a month. A lot more derp-tier guns, for instance.


EDIT: Of course, it's not like anecdata doesn't sometimes lead to funny conclusions. I remember fifteen, twenty years ago when it was an article of faith among a lot of gunsmiths I knew that Taurus PT-9x locking blocks were better than their Beretta equivalents. After all, you saw cracked Beretta ones all the time and you almost never saw a busted Taurus one. I knew people who would replace a cracked Beretta locking block with the Taurus equivalent, and I even recommended it my ownself. Nobody stopped to think that maybe the people who could only afford the $350 guns weren't putting near as many rounds through them as the guys who were buying the $600 ones... (And unless they can show me a logbook, I tend to round down a gun owner's estimated round count by a sizable margin.)

[HCM]

Farnham and Clint Smith liking the XD is not a mystery. Many of the Gunsite 1911 disciples initially embraced the Glock as a 1911 alternative due to the trigger but disliked the grip. The initial solution was Robar grip work to mitigate the 17 degree grip angle.

They then embraced the XD since it offered a striker trigger, a 1911 like grip safety and a conventional grip angle.

[HCM]

I'll take John's volume of experience with seeing the XD's in class over what's being posted as data on the forums. Bet ya a dollar he's seen more of them sling lead downrange than most everyone posting about them in this thread. :)

Everyone's opinion is valuable, just some more than others. ;)

I worked as a full time firearms instructor at an LE training center with 80 partner organizations and subsequently ran a field firearms program for 600 LEO's firing over 500k rounds a year.

That said, I'm willing to bet Tam has seen more rounds go down range working at a commercial indoor range than John Farnham and I combined.

Re e DHS testing - it was 10 years ago but it required 10 guns per model for each of the three calibers with 10,000 rounds being fired through each gun. So two sizes of XD times three calibers = 600,000 rounds. I do not know of any other testing involving the XD with a small size greater than 60 guns and 600k rounds.

This may be excessive for an average gun owner but for an average shooter 10k rounds is not at all excessive.

Side note. I've seen several XDs with reliability issues in classes and competitions but in fairness these guns were all modified for competition and / or running reloads so I don't know if these issues can be put on the gun.

[DocSabo40]

10,000 rounds is about 8 months of shooting for me, I would be disappointed if a gun that I had suffered a major parts breakage in that time. It's totally arbitrary on my part, but for some reason I have 40-50k in my head as to the round count that a gun should go before it's worn beyond repair. Then again, I admittedly don't really know what I'm talking about.

I ended up going back to the same shop that I checked out the XD at and picking up a P320C. It was inevitable really, I'm a SIG fan at heart. The grip felt very similar to my 229. I'm going to run that back to back with the 229 on some drills and go from there.

[rjohnson4405]

I'll take John's volume of experience with seeing the XD's in class over what's being posted as data on the forums. Bet ya a dollar he's seen more of them sling lead downrange than most everyone posting about them in this thread. :)

Everyone's opinion is valuable, just some more than others. ;)

Except all that's an assumption that happens to be wrong. You owe HCM/Tam a dollar.

Now, if the data is too old for you that's a valid concern, however, no one has re-done that level of testing to be able to prove anything has changed (at least that I'm aware of). I'm sure Springfield would've re-submitted had they made changes for things like the FBI contract.

[Tamara]

You owe HCM/Tam a dollar.

Nah. I know what my opinions about gun stuff are worth; I deposit the checks, after all. It's not a lot, but it keeps me in ammo. ;)

[Clay]

That said, I'm willing to bet Tam has seen more rounds go down range working at a commercial indoor range than John Farnham and I combined.

Tam certainly has more experience working at a range than me. I've only been doing it two years. Our range is indoor with 12 lanes. I had 6 customers with XD's today, and rented one out, to a Brit no less. No problems. Nothing epic in the way of round counts, but we do see them day in, day out, every time the doors are open, and we sell them as well. They're probably the most popular pistol around here. We see more of them than M&P's or even Glocks, at least in the hands of civilians.

Paul Howe said he doesn't see very many, about one per class, but he believes them to be reliable, and perfectly suitable for use, FWIW.

All this to say again that XD's aren't my first or second choice, but I think they're perfectly suitable pistols for anyone that wants to go that route, that's all -I don't see them as the awful choice that many of you do.

That's all. :)

[Tamara]

XDs, like Ruger SRs or S&W's SDs or (don't tell anyone) a lot of Taurus's non-Millennium auto lineup, fall into that vast middle ground of pistols where I wouldn't necessarily buy one for myself, but if my mom called to tell me that she and dad had picked one up for their sock drawer, I wouldn't say "zomg, mom! Sell that thing before it gets you killed in the street by ninjas!"

I sold XDs with no guilt and would do so again tomorrow.

That being said, I had assumed that the premise of p-f from the start was that it was going to be biased toward people who shot the piss out of their guns and were worried about things like one-handed manipulations and WHO shooting and the like. If someone came to me and said they were going to take a couple classes a year and shoot a match every other week and practice a lot, I would indeed steer them away from the XD/SR/SD/PT end of the pool.

[HCM]

Along the lines of what Tam stated above, I personally like the ergonomics and trigger of the FNS series guns. In fact, I've been tempted a few times to pick up one of the long slide versions as a range toy but they have exhibited enough bugs that I would not want to carry one for duty or self-defense and I wouldn't want any of my guys at work carrying them for those purposes them either.

[DamonL]

Farnham and Clint Smith liking the XD is not a mystery. Many of the Gunsite 1911 disciples initially embraced the Glock as a 1911 alternative due to the trigger but disliked the grip. The initial solution was Robar grip work to mitigate the 17 degree grip angle.

They then embraced the XD since it offered a striker trigger, a 1911 like grip safety and a conventional grip angle.

Don't forget that it could be had as hi-cap in a real caliber, .45 ACP.

[Tamara]

Don't forget that it could be had as hi-cap in a real caliber, .45 ACP.

*taps side of nose*

Shootin' Buddy has a metric ton of gun skool via Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Shootrite, and Louis Awerbuck classes... Even though he generally carries and shoots Les Baer TRS's, he has several XD's, all in .45ACP, largely on Clint's recommendation.

[BehindBlueI's]

Ima just gonna leave this here.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/5376801/indiana-handguns-for-sale-trade---price-dropped---2-twin-springfield-xdm-s-both-with-laser-sights-and-extension-mags-

https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-content/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2016/04/12/5376801_01_2_twin_springfield_xdm_s_both__640.jpg

[Tamara]

EXTENDOS!


ETA: Those double mag carriers incite me to violence every time I look at them. o.O

[MGW]

Never going to happen! My 229 Legion is my favorite gun that I have owned, I just can't perform with it up to the level that I can with soulless plastic striker garbage :). Really, I could probably deal with point #1 by cutting back on my sushi habit, it's really #2 and #3 that bug me.

Buy a 320 or P250. I feel like the transition between a 229 and 320 is pretty easy.

Edit: read you bought a 320c. Hope you like it. Curious to hear how you transition back and forth between it and the 229.

[JAD]

Those double mag carriers incite me to violence every time I look at them. o.O
No matter what, you're half wrong all the time.

[LockedBreech]

XDs, like Ruger SRs or S&W's SDs or (don't tell anyone) a lot of Taurus's non-Millennium auto lineup, fall into that vast middle ground of pistols where I wouldn't necessarily buy one for myself, but if my mom called to tell me that she and dad had picked one up for their sock drawer, I wouldn't say "zomg, mom! Sell that thing before it gets you killed in the street by ninjas!"

I sold XDs with no guilt and would do so again tomorrow.

That being said, I had assumed that the premise of p-f from the start was that it was going to be biased toward people who shot the piss out of their guns and were worried about things like one-handed manipulations and WHO shooting and the like. If someone came to me and said they were going to take a couple classes a year and shoot a match every other week and practice a lot, I would indeed steer them away from the XD/SR/SD/PT end of the pool.

A few years back, I knew less about guns than I do now (and I'm sure I will cringe at this post a few years from now, as the cycle goes). A buddy was wanting a first and only pistol to protect his wife and newborn. I helped him pick out a GunVault biometric safe and a Ruger SR9 with 124-grain Remington Golden Saber hollowpoints. I was so proud that my gun knowledge had outfitted my buddy so well.

Cut to a few years later, having heard about various SR9 issues and the Gunvault "won't open" issue, sometimes I think I need to give him one of my Berettas and a manual safe just to make myself morally even.

I am comforted by the fact that I believe he has only ever shot the gun about 200 times in 4 years, each at my prompting, so it should hold together. Just amazing how all the stuff we know for certain is awesome turns out to be less awesome with a little investigating.

[Gadfly]

As mentioned DHS tested the XD. A little birdie may have whispered in my ear that the pistols went back to Springfield in a box of loose parts. As in, not just broken, broken into pieces.

This is allegedly the reason the XDm was created, to address the shortcomings of the XD.

As of about 5 years ago, Houston PD authorized the XD and XDm in .40 only. After 3 years, HPD remove the gun from the approved list due to the amount of time the range officers were having to stop a firing line, just to deal with XD problems during the basic academy.

Take it for what it's worth. HPDs initial testing allowed the XD, but time and a few hundred examples made them change course and remove them from the approved list....

I think the XD is not terrible. I enjoy shooting one. In 9mm it seems to run fine. But I have personally see them have to be un jammed via rubber mallet. And if they break, Springfield won't sell you parts. You have to send it in. That alone is a pain in the ass. For the money, there are much better options. Options that done have "Grip Zone" written on them.

[Tamara]

And if they break, Springfield won't sell you parts. You have to send it in.

Although there is not hard documented fact to support it, the consensus in the gunsmithing industry seems to be that, much like Taurus not selling parts, it's because there's so much variance in the part measurements that they're not willing to sell parts that will likely need gunsmith fitting due to dimensional slop from tooling wear.

The dimensions of XD sight dovetails do vary wildly, and I've seen this with my own eyes and calipers. Some of them you can knock out with a punch and hammer and occasionally some need to be cut out with the mill. It's like dovetail cutters are 'spensive in Croatia or something.

[ReverendMeat]

A few years back, I knew less about guns than I do now (and I'm sure I will cringe at this post a few years from now, as the cycle goes). A buddy was wanting a first and only pistol to protect his wife and newborn. I helped him pick out a GunVault biometric safe and a Ruger SR9 with 124-grain Remington Golden Saber hollowpoints. I was so proud that my gun knowledge had outfitted my buddy so well.

Cut to a few years later, having heard about various SR9 issues and the Gunvault "won't open" issue, sometimes I think I need to give him one of my Berettas and a manual safe just to make myself morally even.

I am comforted by the fact that I believe he has only ever shot the gun about 200 times in 4 years, each at my prompting, so it should hold together. Just amazing how all the stuff we know for certain is awesome turns out to be less awesome with a little investigating.

Though some on this forum may scoff at them the SR9 is a perfectly fine recommendation. I would take one over an XD.

[LockedBreech]

Though some on this forum may scoff at them the SR9 is a perfectly fine recommendation. I would take one over an XD.

It did cycle those 200 rounds fine (minus one clearly-my-fault limp wrist). And I did quite like the trigger.

Still, him being a close friend, I wish I had known enough to give him a 92 or an HK if he wanted a manual safety gun.


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[GardoneVT]

Though some on this forum may scoff at them the SR9 is a perfectly fine recommendation. I would take one over an XD.

Id confidently say a beat up, police trade in Beretta/HK/Sig/Glock 9mm are superior choices to anything new under $500.00 in the respective section of the gun case.

[Tamara]

Hand to God, I did not make this for this thread. It was on my hard drive from months ago, when I made it for a FaceBook discussion...

8801

[45dotACP]

Noob advice...buy a 2 yr GSSF membership, get Glock card, shoot matches, shoot in practice, and dry fire with your 450 dollar gen 4 Glock, win moar Glocks....profit?

Alternatively, I bought a police trade in Glock 19 as my first semi auto pistol...it was 350 bucks. The XD is irrelevant to my needs

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[BillSWPA]

Although there is not hard documented fact to support it, the consensus in the gunsmithing industry seems to be that, much like Taurus not selling parts, it's because there's so much variance in the part measurements that they're not willing to sell parts that will likely need gunsmith fitting due to dimensional slop from tooling wear.

The dimensions of XD sight dovetails do vary wildly, and I've seen this with my own eyes and calipers. Some of them you can knock out with a punch and hammer and occasionally some need to be cut out with the mill. It's like dovetail cutters are 'spensive in Croatia or something.

That is interesting and a bit disturbing, and it does make me glad that my wife does not want me to change the sights on her gun to tritium. My preference would be to change them, but it is her choice on her gun. The accuracy that can be achieved with modern CNC machines is incredible, and at least some of the competition is taking advantage of this.

Still, the gun I want for my wife is the one she shoots most comfortably and therefore most accurately, and NONE of the choices mentioned above does that as well as an XD.

[JonInWA]

Bill, dare I suggest a HK VP9?

Best, Jon

[BillSWPA]

Bill, dare I suggest a HK VP9?

Best, Jon

Thank you for the suggestion. I will need to look at the VP9 to see how it's features compare to things she liked and didn't like. I took advantage of free rentals at a range I used to belong to in order to let her try numerous guns. On of those was an HK P7M8, and I was totally floored when she did 't like that one.