Par time for dry-fire reloads

[YVK]

Starting with slide locked back and empty magazine in, in firing stance with sight picture on you favorite dry-fire target, what part time are setting up to complete a reload and press out back on target? Say, I have modest aspirations of a 2.2-2.3 live fire reloads; what's rough estimate for dry-fire equivalent?

[KeeFus]

Doing the same type of reload practice I set my par time for about 1.8. The thing you can't take into account is say in a (IDPA) match you are at a point of cover and you are shooting around cover when slide lock occurs. Cover may add time to your reload unless you also practice that.

[rsa-otc]

I've just started doing the same thing. Right now I'm working with a par time of 2 from cover. I'm successful when I do a few without the timer then start using par times. When I start cold I find that I rush, fumble and curse. If everything goes right I make par.

Been working without the timer for awhile and am now adopting Todd's strategy of, "Sometimes the fastest way to get fast is to go faster."

[mscott327]

I've been working on this also both with an without a timer Since I'm wrong handed, I've been dropping magazine with my middle finger on my left hand and after I pop in the new magazine, I reach under the mag with my right hand and release the slide stop with my middle finger on my right hand. This allows me to get back on target faster than coming over the top and racking the slide. Should I expect sub 2 second times being left handed?

[joshs]

If done honestly, the dry-fire time should be the same as your target live fire time. If you find in much easier to meet the par time dry, then you are doing one of two things. You are either cheating on the press out by throwing the gun out and crushing through the trigger press, or, in live fire, you are slowing down when you don't need to.

I start with a time that I can comfortably do a reload, then work down to where everything falls apart. I always finish by going back to the comfortable time to restore my confidence.

[JDM]

Much like Joshs, I start with something I KNOW I can do every time, and start knocking tenths off until I'm on the cusp of going too fast. When I'm finishing my dry session, I do five deliberate, slow press outs and five deliberate, slow reloads focusing on fundamentals.

[gringop]

Starting with slide locked back and empty magazine in, in firing stance with sight picture on you favorite dry-fire target, what part time are setting up to complete a reload and press out back on target? Say, I have modest aspirations of a 2.2-2.3 live fire reloads; what's rough estimate for dry-fire equivalent?

What's your dry fire target size and distance? Too many variables to answer without that info.

What are your FAST reload times? You do record all your FAST times and splits, don't you?
My FAST reloads are around 2.5, I suck. I need to get on the dryfire train, too.

If you follow Steve Anderson's format and use 2.2 as a baseline, you should do 10 reps with no par, 10 reps at 2.4, 10 reps at 2.3, 10 reps at 2.2, 10 reps at 2.1 and 10 reps at 2.0.

Gringop

[YVK]

What's your dry fire target size and distance? Too many variables to answer without that info.

What are your FAST reload times? You do record all your FAST times and splits, don't you?
My FAST reloads are around 2.5, I suck. I need to get on the dryfire train, too.



Two light switches, a single and double, about 7 yards away. Didn't measure them. but looks like 5x3 and 5x5 respectively. My FAST reloads range between 2.5 and 2.7, sometimes longer. BTW, I don't consider FAST reloads to be truly indicative of reload speed, but that's a separate issue. For purposes of this discussion, let's consider reloads in a context of a FAST drill, or any other situation when you know exactly when slide-lock is going to happen.

[JodyH]

I would not set the par time for the complete reload.
Since you have no bullet impact feedback its easy to get sloppy on your grip, press out, sight alignment and trigger press after the reload.
Instead I set my par time approx. 0.5 seconds faster than my shot to shot reload time.
Begin with the slide locked open on an empty magazine, finger holding the trigger back, aimed in on a target.
At the beep perform your reload. The goal is to have the magazine inserted and the slide dropped before the par time buzzer.
Finish with a solid press out, sight alignment and a good trigger press.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[Prdator]

I do NOT use a par time on Reload practice, I use my iPhone with the Surefire shot timer, the timer will pickup the slide drop and from there I do a nice press out to a reduced size target. That way I can see what each reload is.

[Kevin B.]

While I may have a goal in mind, I use my average time to perform the task as the basis for my par time. I begin with 10 repetitions with the timer as a start signal but no par and move to a par time set for .2 slower than my average time. I then reduce the par time by .1 every 10 repetitions until it is .1 faster than my average time for the task.

For example, if I had a reload that averaged 2.0, I would do:
10 reps with no par (focus on clean technique)
10 reps with a 2.2 par
10 reps with a 2.1 par
10 reps with a 2.0 par
10 reps with a 1.9 par

Fifty reps total. As my average time moves down, I adjust the base par time accordingly. So, if I started hitting my reloads consistently at 1.9, I would start setting my par at 2.1 and finish at 1.8.

[jar]

One thing I picked up from Steve Anderson's book is to do a lot of my dry reload practice with just drawing the mag and aligning it with the magwell. You can do a lot more reps in the same amount of time.

[Mr_White]

One thing I picked up from Steve Anderson's book is to do a lot of my dry reload practice with just drawing the mag and aligning it with the magwell. You can do a lot more reps in the same amount of time.

I read that in his book too, and it's one thing I haven't really tried out yet. It certainly would lead to more reps, but I have thus far thought I got lots of benefit from practicing actually inserting the magazine and closing the slide with the slide stop lever and reforming the two hand grip and pressing out again. That's an awful lot left out if I stop at the point of aligning the new mag with the mag well. But I haven't tried it Steve's way, so maybe I don't know what I am missing with those extra reps.

[DonovanM]

I read that in his book too, and it's one thing I haven't really tried out yet. It certainly would lead to more reps, but I have thus far thought I got lots of benefit from practicing actually inserting the magazine and closing the slide with the slide stop lever and reforming the two hand grip and pressing out again. That's an awful lot left out if I stop at the point of aligning the new mag with the mag well. But I haven't tried it Steve's way, so maybe I don't know what I am missing with those extra reps.

I think the reason behind doing that is out of the entire set of motions involved with performing a reload, getting the tip of the mag into the well is the most critical of all to practice. Reloading quickly is more like shooting a free throw than anything else. Reestablishing the grip and pressing the gun out doesn't involve nearly the level of intuitive hand-eye coordination that getting the mag in does.

After thousands of reloads, I can probably count on both hands how many times I've fudged my grip on the press-out. But I can't count how many times I've fudged getting the mag into the well. So I spend more time practicing just getting the mag into the gun to be as efficient as possible.

[gringop]

I do the Burkett reload from the Anderson book and time myself on the mag just getting to the magwell. I pause, but DO finish the reload and get back up on target for a trigger press on each rep. Since I have a chair to catch mags, I don't think it takes much time to set up for the next rep. Since I just broke the 2 sec mark for a concealed shot to shot speed reload last month, I think it's working for me. (old man goals) My baseline for Burkett reloads is 1.4 sec.

In my experience, the pause in dry fire does not translate to a pause in live fire. It does cement my looking the mag into the magwell then getting a sight picture for the next shot.

Gringop

[KeeFus]

The biggest problem I have doing dry fire reloads is having properly weighted mags. In my experience, when I'm doing dry fire reloads with an empty mag, it seems to feel differently...and the lip of the mag sometimes catches the mag well. When I'm doing reloads with live ammo (on the range) it seems to flow better and the extra weight and the first round seem to assist with the proper alignment and it doesn't get hung up on the lip.

Any suggestions to remedy that? I've thought about getting some blue-gun mags (http://www.botachtactical.com/blgupima.html)...anyone have any experience with them?

[DonovanM]

The biggest problem I have doing dry fire reloads is having properly weighted mags. In my experience, when I'm doing dry fire reloads with an empty mag, it seems to feel differently...and the lip of the mag sometimes catches the mag well. When I'm doing reloads with live ammo (on the range) it seems to flow better and the extra weight and the first round seem to assist with the proper alignment and it doesn't get hung up on the lip.

Any suggestions to remedy that? I've thought about getting some blue-gun mags (http://www.botachtactical.com/blgupima.html)...anyone have any experience with them?

I have a box of dummy rounds that are both the wrong caliber for either of my guns and are missing primer/powder. As if that wasn't enough, the top round in my dry-fire mags is a snap cap. Works great.

The blue mags might work but I didn't see anything about them being weighted... and I'd order from somewhere else than Botach.

[guymontag]

I would not set the par time for the complete reload.
Since you have no bullet impact feedback its easy to get sloppy on your grip, press out, sight alignment and trigger press after the reload.
Instead I set my par time approx. 0.5 seconds faster than my shot to shot reload time.
Begin with the slide locked open on an empty magazine, finger holding the trigger back, aimed in on a target.
At the beep perform your reload. The goal is to have the magazine inserted and the slide dropped before the par time buzzer.
Finish with a solid press out, sight alignment and a good trigger press.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

I've noticed I sacrifice grip and a proper trigger press in practice in an attempt to gain speed, especially when the reload itself isn't as smooth as it could be. I appreciate your post, I never thought not to set a complete reload par time.


One thing I picked up from Steve Anderson's book is to do a lot of my dry reload practice with just drawing the mag and aligning it with the magwell. You can do a lot more reps in the same amount of time.

Just the tip?

After reading about this method on the Enos forum (from the Anderson book), I've incorporated it into my reload practice. Now that I'm working on consistency, time will tell.