View Full Version : Glocks AIWB with NY1 and Gadget
Hi all, after speaking with a few of the SMEs I decided to give appendix carry another go. I have several G19s and G26s that I carry traditionally strong side, but due to my lean appearance find that I print horribly behind my hip.
I plan on purchasing a few Gadgets when they are available and have recently installed NY1 triggers. I know through searching there is a debate whether a heavier or longer pull helps to prevents NDs. I think both affect different circumstances and can help depending on the situation. If you take a stock trigger setup and a NY1, there is clearly more, and constant pressure required to complete the trigger pull.
Are any of you guys still running a NY1 with the stock connector? Is the "preferred" setup when using a NY1 still in conjunction with a minus connector?
Do you feel the NY1 with the minus connector still offers the same additional safety of the NY1 with the standard connector but a better break? Is it worth my trouble to install it and try it?
Will more of you guys look to use the NY1 and Gadget combo once the Gadgets are available? To me, this combo seems like the best (most comforting?) way to carry a striker fired pistol (appendix) that doesn't have a manual safety.
I understand it still comes back to having the proper training and mindset. (Please don't turn this into a gun handling debate.) However, individuals have different levels of acceptance when it comes to safety. I am not clumsy, I have a respectful mentality and am willing to practice with anything I have to achieve the desired results.
Happy Father's Day and thank you for your thoughts!
I personally don't use the ny1 Spring. I have given heavy thought to the gadget. I've been carrying a Glock AIWB for a year and a half and before that carried an XDS. I always liked the grip safety for reholstering. Assuming the gadget is reliable, I will give it a try.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
littlejerry
06-19-2016, 09:42 AM
I still run a NY1 and minus connector on my Gen 3 Glock. On Gen4 guns the combination did not work as well for me.
My aim was to produce a rolling break, not increase AIWB safety. Even though the trigger weight is higher it is still significantly less than the DA pull of most TDAs.
It certainly won't hurt, but it won't be like a TDA.
Handy
06-19-2016, 10:07 AM
When I had a Glock I had a NY1 and standard connector, and if I bought another Glock I'd put one in again. Despite it being 8lbs, it didn't shoot like an 8lbs DA, but more like a 6lbs SA trigger with a firm take up. It was much more like what other companies conceived this kind of LDA should be, instead of the increasingly single action triggers that have become the norm with "-" connectors, VP9, PPQ etc. I never felt like the heavier NY1 trigger was imprecise or slow, while other folks find the standard 5.5lbs set up too heavy.
I put the NY1 in for safety and I would encourage anyone carrying a Glock to give them a real try. One of the things the NY1 does is make the initial take up movement tactilely more obvious. The standard trigger always feels like it has already moved a bit before it gives much feedback.
Tamara
06-19-2016, 10:13 AM
I think the safety advantages of a TDA while holstering come from the weight of the trigger pull, the length of the trigger travel, and the visual/tactile "something's amiss" indicator of the hammer moving under the shooter's thumb. A Glock with a standard NY1 setup and a Gadget would give the first and third benefits, but not the second one. Whether that's enough of a safety margin to make you comfortable AIWB is totally an individual choice.
I think the gun hardware features are interesting, but for a round to go off, there is a good chance you made a mistake. Depending upon that mistake, you did one or more things wrong, like not clearing your holster, not thumbing your hammer/gadget, not stopping when you felt resistance, or getting on your trigger early when drawing.
The is another layer of defense that might be as or more important, and that relates to your holster and holstering technique. Use a foam wedge to avert the muzzle away from your body, so if a round goes off in your holster it doesn't hit you. When you holster, shift your pelvis to accentuate the effectiveness of the foam pad in averting the muzzle away from your body.
Handy
06-19-2016, 12:04 PM
Given the slimmer margins for safe handling with AIWB holsters, I'm really surprised more of them don't extend much higher above the trigger and along the left grip to keep shirts clear has high as possible and as early in the holster movement as possible. There doesn't appear to be much downside to such a design when using Kydex or other rigid materials.
Hot Sauce
06-19-2016, 03:02 PM
The is another layer of defense that might be as or more important, and that relates to your holster and holstering technique. Use a foam wedge to avert the muzzle away from your body, so if a round goes off in your holster it doesn't hit you. When you holster, shift your pelvis to accentuate the effectiveness of the foam pad in averting the muzzle away from your body.
Is there any documented instance of a gun going off while someone is performing this technique/using this equipment? I wonder if the injuries to a person's dangles from shattered flying kydex would still be severe.
Is there any documented instance of a gun going off while someone is performing this technique/using this equipment? I wonder if the injuries to a person's dangles from shattered flying kydex would still be severe.
I am pretty certain all the loads on Doc's list have been vetted in this regard.
LittleLebowski
06-19-2016, 03:25 PM
I've ran an NY1 and Glock - connector. I now carry a standard trigger setup that's been polished in AIWB with a Gadget. Once you learn to always keep your thumb on the Gadget, the Gadget will let you know via movement if something is amiss. It's my conclusion from literally years of experience with the Gadget that the NY1 is not needed for safety. If you prefer the NY1, go for it but you don't need it for additional safety with the Gadget. Please make sure to buy a purpose built AIWB holster, recommend asking the userbase here about that if you don't have one picked out or already bought.
I like the NY1/- combo, but after spending a couple of days firing roughly 1000/hour (across three different guns, 2 stock and 1 with the NY1/- setup), I'm pretty sure I won't be using NY1/- setup during testing again. :)
After about 200 rounds it was like a damn staple gun. Brutal.
I've ran an NY1 and Glock - connector. I now carry a standard trigger setup that's been polished in AIWB with a Gadget. Once you learn to always keep your thumb on the Gadget, the Gadget will let you know via movement if something is amiss. It's my conclusion from literally years of experience with the Gadget that the NY1 is not needed for safety. If you prefer the NY1, go for it but you don't need it for additional safety with the Gadget. Please make sure to buy a purpose built AIWB holster, recommend asking the userbase here about that if you don't have one picked out or already bought.
I didn't know the gadget was out. Or are you a beta tester?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Duces Tecum
06-19-2016, 04:39 PM
Are any of you guys still running a NY1 with the stock connector?
Will more of you guys look to use the NY1 and Gadget combo once the Gadgets are available?
I carry AIWB and use the NY1 with stock connector. I've come to like the combination. And yes, I hope to buy gadgets Soon (TM).
They should be shipping around the end of the month.
LL been a one of the testers since May 2011.
Wow that's great. I'm so glad to hear it's been tested thoroughly!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hot Sauce
06-19-2016, 04:59 PM
I am pretty certain all the loads on Doc's list have been vetted in this regard.
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. I'm talking about shards of the holster rather, not bullet fragments.
He was being "funny". :)
Oops, I forgot my :).
If you are risk averse, you can always go with an open bottom holster.
Is there any documented instance of a gun going off while someone is performing this technique/using this equipment? I wonder if the injuries to a person's dangles from shattered flying kydex would still be severe.
There are so few of us doing this, I don't think it's very likely. If my gun went off while doing what GJM suggests, theoretically, the bullet would simply pass through the open end of the holster, and there would be no flying kydex. My boys might go deaf though.
Hot Sauce
06-19-2016, 05:47 PM
There are so few of us doing this, I don't think it's very likely. If my gun went off while doing what GJM suggests, theoretically, the bullet would simply pass through the open end of the holster, and there would be no flying kydex. My boys might go deaf though.
Yeah, my bad on not catching on to the sarcasm. Just figured I'd ask. I don't figure it likely either, that's why the method+equipment selection provide multiple points of safety. A classic system designed with redundancies in order to fail well. Nevertheless, shit happens, I figured someone may have heard of an instance.
So far I've gone through 450 rounds on the NY1/standard connector and I like the combo. At first I was iffy, but once I adjusted to the weight of the pull I was fine. I've been using the Vickers Test to vet concealed carry pistols and I cleared that today easily. Slow fire groups from 25 yards were grouping just fine as well.
My mindset has kind of shifted lately. I used to be all about shaving quarter seconds off my splits, now I'm getting more into tactics and strategy.
Regarding holsters, I went with JM Custom.
Regarding staple guns, I've only ever trained with Glocks so I don't know any better. ;) I just bought a couple G19s and G26s, and a bunch of mags to allocate more money for classes and ammo.
Totem Polar
06-19-2016, 07:12 PM
I bought my first G19 and fitted it with an NY trigger spring back before the first President Clinton instituted the reviled AWB. Back then, they only had one flavor, so far as I recall. I liked the characteristics of the trigger, but my hands were younger then. My current G17 has an NY-1 trigger with OEM minus connector, and I like it just fine (I also have a gadget on order that will fly onto the back of that 17 like a rare earth magnet onto a fridge). All that said, I like the stock trigger on my G43 enough that I wouldn't change it if I could. Now, about that G43 gadget... (I know, Soon™...)
Wendell
06-19-2016, 07:12 PM
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. I'm talking about shards of the holster rather, not bullet fragments.
I guess that is a valid concern with an OEM Keeper.
Most of the decent AIWB holsters I've seen don't have a closed bottom, but the Keeper is the one exception I can think of; if you were worried about that, it'd be pretty easy to drill a 'safety' hole in the bottom of it.
So far I've gone through 450 rounds on the NY1/standard connector and I like the combo. At first I was iffy, but once I adjusted to the weight of the pull I was fine. I've been using the Vickers Test to vet concealed carry pistols and I cleared that today easily. Slow fire groups from 25 yards were grouping just fine as well.
My mindset has kind of shifted lately. I used to be all about shaving quarter seconds off my splits, now I'm getting more into tactics and strategy.
Regarding holsters, I went with JM Custom.
Regarding staple guns, I've only ever trained with Glocks so I don't know any better. ;) I just bought a couple G19s and G26s, and a bunch of mags to allocate more money for classes and ammo.
I think if you can just pick one, between speed and accuracy, it would be accuracy. However, to fully develop your potential as a shooter, you want both speed and accuracy. I would try to keep developing both, especially since you already have a good handle on accuracy. It is easy for me to turtle back to accuracy during the summer, but I am doing my best to make speed a focus for the next few months.
Chuck Haggard
06-19-2016, 07:21 PM
The advantage I like with the NY1 trigger spring is the increased fell of the take-up, and greater reliability of the part, and that it gives me some small bit of insurance when I have someone at gunpoint.
I note several smart dudes, like Claude Werner, have gone back to the future and started carrying DA autos due to the "we talk to bad people at gunpoint far more often than we gunfight..." reality.
I'm digging my G17 with the Robar NP3'd trigger parts, NY1 spring, and a Gadget. I shall be buying Gadgets for all my Glocks.
FWIW, my AIWB rig is the Keepers. While the muzzle blast would no doubt be rather exciting, it I fuck up and trigger one off in my pants the junk will avoid a direct hit due to the holster design.
I think if you can just pick one, between speed and accuracy, it would be accuracy. However, to fully develop your potential as a shooter, you want both speed and accuracy. I would try to keep developing both, especially since you already have a good handle on accuracy. It is easy for me to turtle back to accuracy during the summer, but I am doing my best to make speed a focus for the next few months.
Good points, now I'm going to go back to this post and work on Todd's recommendations for gaining speed.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3592-ToddG-for-Beginners
The advantage I like with the NY1 trigger spring is the increased fell of the take-up, and greater reliability of the part, and that it gives me some small bit of insurance when I have someone at gunpoint.
I note several smart dudes, like Claude Werner, have gone back to the future and started carrying DA autos due to the "we talk to bad people at gunpoint far more often than we gunfight..." reality.
I'm digging my G17 with the Robar NP3'd trigger parts, NY1 spring, and a Gadget. I shall be buying Gadgets for all my Glocks.
FWIW, my AIWB rig is the Keepers. While the muzzle blast would no doubt be rather exciting, it I fuck up and trigger one off in my pants the junk will avoid a direct hit due to the holster design.
I'm not holding someone at gun point on a regular basis, but I know what you mean. With the stock setup during dry fire it is very difficult for me to get out of the trigger. With the NY1 I can distinguish how far I can go and choose to get out of it at will.
Probably a good option to have for concealed carry as well. I want to make sure I don't put a hole in myself or someone I am not absolutely sure I want to go to court over... It's going to come down to performance. I seem to be warming up to the NY1 as noted above so as of right now it's worth it to me.
Shoot 1000 rounds in 30 minutes, spend the next 30 minutes stuffing mags, and repeat that until they range guys kick you out. Then you'll know what JDM and I were talking about. With the NY1/- combo it really is a whole lot of not fun.
I felt it the first range session with the NY1 on my trigger finger. It wasn't bad today, but I didn't shoot 1,000 rounds either. :D
Chuck Haggard
06-19-2016, 08:01 PM
http://www.ironmind.com/product-info/grip-strength-training-tools/captains-of-crush-grippers/
http://www.ironmind.com/product-info/grip-strength-training-tools/captains-of-crush-grippers/
Yep! I have a #3 at home.. Regular part of my grip training, though pulling on a GI and deadlifting for 10 years did more for my grip. Not always an option for people though!
Chuck Haggard
06-19-2016, 08:11 PM
I maybe should have put a smiley in with that post.
I maybe should have put a smiley in with that post.
I should have just replied with a pic of me wearing my neck harness with 45s hanging from it and asking for your next move. :D
I maybe should have put a smiley in with that post.
Nah, Tom and company just need to get harder.:-)
I spent years shooting a NYPlus infiniti, and never noticed any fatigue. As much as that trigger is awful, it probably did more to teach me to shoot than any other device. I couldn't get better than 4" at 25 yards with that gun, and figured it was just me. I was 23, so I had Mas Ayoob and John Holschen shoot it for me on two separate occasions. They both produced nice neat 4" groups with it, which both laid my concern over my shooting/trigger control to rest, and left me deeply disappointed with the Glock.
If I had my choice, I would use NY1 trigger, and I did at one point. My carry glock has the factory stock trigger in it, as that is what is issued.
The next time I need 10K through a gun over a weekend, I'll give you a call. :cool:
I honestly have no doubt that it would be easier for you than it was for me. I'm all sorts of soft right now.
10K in a weekend is brutal, no thanks! Honestly, you'd be lucky not to suffer for quite a while afterwards. I was totally kidding about getting harder.
Nah, Tom and company just need to get harder.:-)
I spent years shooting a NYPlus infiniti, and never noticed any fatigue. As much as that trigger is awful, it probably did more to teach me to shoot than any other device. I couldn't get better than 4" at 25 yards with that gun, and figured it was just me. I was 23, so I had Mas Ayoob and John Holschen shoot it for me on two separate occasions. They both produced nice neat 4" groups with it, which both laid my concern over my shooting/trigger control to rest, and left me deeply disappointed with the Glock.
If I had my choice, I would use NY1 trigger, and I did at one point. My carry glock has the factory stock trigger in it, as that is what is issued.
Curious why you think the NY trigger taught you more, than for example, a stock trigger? I don't have experience with one, but Mr_White ran one for a while, and I believe, came away with a different take.
Curious why you think the NY trigger taught you more, than for example, a stock trigger? I don't have experience with one, but Mr_White ran one for a while, and I believe, came away with a different take.
Shooting a 12# Glock well is extremely difficult, and IME, makes everything except an HK DA trigger look wonderful. During the 4 years that I suffered under its yoke, I shot a variety of matches, including silhouette. The gun really wasn't accurate enough to do that reliably, but you really need to have good trigger control to shoot that particular trigger well. Aside from the weight, it has a different "quality" that makes it tough. Stock glock triggers may be the worst factory triggers out there, but they are super easy compared to the NYPD version.
Shooting a 12# Glock well is extremely difficult, and IME, makes everything except an HK DA trigger look wonderful. During the 4 years that I suffered under its yoke, I shot a variety of matches, including silhouette. The gun really wasn't accurate enough to do that reliably, but you really need to have good trigger control to shoot that particular trigger well. Aside from the weight, it has a different "quality" that makes it tough. Stock glock triggers may be the worst factory triggers out there, but they are super easy compared to the NYPD version.
Hopefully Gabe will chime in, as he has an interesting take on the NY trigger.
In the mean time, I am satisfied, since I shoot the DA HK, the world's toughest training trigger!
Hopefully Gabe will chime in, as he has an interesting take on the NY trigger.
In the mean time, I am satisfied, since I shoot the DA HK, the world's toughest training trigger!
I think you already know.. But, SLG is referencing the NY2 trigger not the NY1. I saw "NY trigger" flying around and just didn't want them both to get referenced together as one. I didn't look up which one Gabe tried yet..
Mr_White
06-20-2016, 10:04 AM
Here are a few thoughts I have really quick:
I spent a while messing around with the different Glock factory trigger springs and connectors, trying to learn about those options, whether they all had the same potential capability for shooting and safety, and use them to develop better trigger control.
It was definitely very helpful to my trigger control to spend time with the NY1/standard connector. Mine measured out to about 10.5 lbs, not 8. I wouldn't trade away the time I spent with it for anything. I got a LOT better at pressing the trigger.
I tried the NY2/standard connector, and it seemed not very different from the NY1/standard connector - mostly just 'sproingier.' I think it only weighed out about a pound heavier, IIRC.
I never liked the NY1/minus connector combo, and would prefer the NY1/standard if I had to choose between those two.
My personal conclusion on the shooting capability of the heavier triggers was that they could definitely be shot well. But they could definitely not be shot as well as the lighter factory options, at least not by me. The heavier triggers cost me either accuracy or time or some combinations of the two. This was pretty easy to objectively measure.
At this point, if I used any of the NY triggers in my Glocks, I'd be really afraid I'd get carpal tunnel in a hurry from all the extra exertion it would take. My hands, wrists, and arms feel worn enough practicing as much as I do with a more normal trigger.
When I was doing that time of experimentation with the different trigger parts, I didn't really feel like I was safer with the heavier trigger options. I could see the NY1/standard being a little more resilient against casual, administrative, bad handling practices. But assuming one doesn't have those habits (easy to accomplish through training), I'm not so sure it would do a whole lot to prevent ND due to any of the reasons people convulse their hands/fingers in times of stress. And in terms of working the trigger in shooting, I don't tend to think the heavier weight is safer, because it just required that I develop a habit of putting much more weight/pressure on the trigger harder/faster/steeper to operate the trigger in accordance with the sights. So I'm not sure it's any safer from that standpoint. That is a subjective perception on my part though, and I think the safety aspect is harder to measure objectively than accuracy and speed.
The Gadget is a fantastic addition to the Glock. It allows the additional layer of a safety procedure that is otherwise not possible with the gun.
I do think that controlling the muzzle direction by wedging the holster has a pronounced effect on AIWB safety and that's something I'm a huge believer in. Since it got brought up in this thread, here's a video I made that shows some of the difference in self-muzzling out of a strong side IWB, strong side OWB, and properly-wedged AIWB holster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4fXzLBe81E
Totem Polar
06-20-2016, 10:11 AM
I dig that vid clip. Remind me again, Gabe, what trigger set up did you end up going with in your Glocks?
mtnbkr
06-20-2016, 11:19 AM
Here are a few thoughts I have really quick:
At this point, if I used any of the NY triggers in my Glocks, I'd be really afraid I'd get carpal tunnel in a hurry from all the extra exertion it would take.
I take it you don't shoot DA revolvers any?
Chris
That is a great video Gabe. I've always tried to tilt the gun away from my body while reholstering but never realized the foam wedge puts another layer of defense in the process.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I dig that vid clip. Remind me again, Gabe, what trigger set up did you end up going with in your Glocks?
In case he is busy, OEM minus connector, Wolff five pound striker spring, otherwise stock OEM parts.
Cheap Shot
06-20-2016, 12:16 PM
They should be shipping around the end of the month.
LL been a one of the testers since May 2011.
Can we pre order? If so, how? If no pre orders, will you be making an announcement?
Timely thread, I'll be starting my journey with AIWB this week. I think I remember Nyeti saying in another thread (I'm paraphasing) "that AIWB gets the same level of attention and caution as stuffing a pissed off rattlesnake down the front of his pants."
That sort of sets the tone for how I'll be proceeding.
Mr_White
06-20-2016, 12:43 PM
I dig that vid clip. Remind me again, Gabe, what trigger set up did you end up going with in your Glocks?
OEM Minus connector, stock trigger spring, 5lb Wolff striker spring (cleans up the break a little bit, tested to my satisfaction for ignition reliability.)
I take it you don't shoot DA revolvers any?
Chris
Nope. A J-frame is a classic tool for learning a hard trigger and better trigger control. In my case, I just don't care much about revolvers and I thought there would be more commonality maintained by using a Glock, just with a more challenging trigger.
That is a great video Gabe. I've always tried to tilt the gun away from my body while reholstering but never realized the foam wedge puts another layer of defense in the process.
A big wedge can have an incredibly pronounced effect on preventing the muzzle from covering the lower body in AIWB.
Generally speaking, moving the legs close together gets them under the muzzle with an AIWB holster. Moving the legs apart gets them out from under the muzzle with an AIWB holster. With strong side holsters, that's reversed. Legs could be in any number of positions when drawing, but if we are talking about pretty standard range activities where the bulk of drawing and holstering repetitions take place, I think there is a lot more moving the legs apart than moving the legs together. I tried to show in the video what I've seen to be the most common 'leg actions' on the range - standing unmoving shoulder width apart or a bit wider, stepping laterally to either side and forward and back, and breaking into a lateral run. Even I was a bit surprised when I made the video and counted up the instances of self-muzzling while doing those things from those three different holster positions with those particular holsters...
I was left believing even more strongly that it's hard to make credible statements about safety or lack of safety from those holster positions without referencing a specific person with specific gear doing specific things. Otherwise the generalizations made about safety, particularly from AIWB, can turn out to be pretty atrociously wrong.
These experienced replies are making me feel better about carrying my Glocks appendix with a big foam wedge, the NY1/Stock connector and the gadget. Thank you for the education, keep it coming!
A big wedge can have an incredibly pronounced effect on preventing the muzzle from covering the lower body in AIWB.
Generally speaking, moving the legs close together gets them under the muzzle with an AIWB holster. Moving the legs apart gets them out from under the muzzle with an AIWB holster. With strong side holsters, that's reversed. Legs could be in any number of positions when drawing, but if we are talking about pretty standard range activities where the bulk of drawing and holstering repetitions take place, I think there is a lot more moving the legs apart than moving the legs together. I tried to show in the video what I've seen to be the most common 'leg actions' on the range - standing unmoving shoulder width apart or a bit wider, stepping laterally to either side and forward and back, and breaking into a lateral run. Even I was a bit surprised when I made the video and counted up the instances of self-muzzling while doing those things from those three different holster positions with those particular holsters...
I was left believing even more strongly that it's hard to make credible statements about safety or lack of safety from those holster positions without referencing a specific person with specific gear doing specific things. Otherwise the generalizations made about safety, particularly from AIWB, can turn out to be pretty atrociously wrong.
Agree with this %100!
voodoo_man
06-20-2016, 01:07 PM
Aiwb + man spreading= good to go
Hence why they have a problem with it in NYC...
Handy
06-20-2016, 01:09 PM
Is the safety concern with AIWB primarily due to the repercussions (junk shot), or the increased likelihood of an ND due to getting something caught in the trigger because the waist sits under the abdomen in front?
Irelander
06-20-2016, 01:20 PM
Is the safety concern with AIWB primarily due to the repercussions (junk shot), or the increased likelihood of an ND due to getting something caught in the trigger because the waist sits under the abdomen in front?
Putting a bullet through your femoral artery is the main concern followed by hitting the junk. Sure you can die from a shot to the junk and will probably wish you had but its nearly a miracle to survive a leaky femoral artery.
Mr_White
06-20-2016, 01:49 PM
Putting a bullet through your femoral artery is the main concern followed by hitting the junk. Sure you can die from a shot to the junk and will probably wish you had but its nearly a miracle to survive a leaky femoral artery.
I think that's an accurate characterization of the common concern. Determining whether that's an accurate concern may take a little looking. It's a pretty common characterization that "AIWB = muzzling the hell out of your junk and/or femoral artery." That's what I think is inaccurate as a blanket statement - same as characterizing strong side carry as 'not muzzling the hell out of your junk and/or femoral artery.' As a real handy example, my video shows that for me, with the holsters I used and the actions I demonstrated, it's pretty much the opposite.
Irelander
06-20-2016, 02:04 PM
I think that's an accurate characterization of the common concern. Determining whether that's an accurate concern may take a little looking. It's a pretty common characterization that "AIWB = muzzling the hell out of your junk and/or femoral artery." That's what I think is inaccurate as a blanket statement - same as characterizing strong side carry as 'not muzzling the hell out of your junk and/or femoral artery.' As a real handy example, my video shows that for me, with the holsters I used and the actions I demonstrated, it's pretty much the opposite.
Well said.
Here are a few thoughts I have really quick:
I spent a while messing around with the different Glock factory trigger springs and connectors, trying to learn about those options, whether they all had the same potential capability for shooting and safety, and use them to develop better trigger control.
It was definitely very helpful to my trigger control to spend time with the NY1/standard connector. Mine measured out to about 10.5 lbs, not 8. I wouldn't trade away the time I spent with it for anything. I got a LOT better at pressing the trigger.
I tried the NY2/standard connector, and it seemed not very different from the NY1/standard connector - mostly just 'sproingier.' I think it only weighed out about a pound heavier, IIRC.
I never liked the NY1/minus connector combo, and would prefer the NY1/standard if I had to choose between those two.
My personal conclusion on the shooting capability of the heavier triggers was that they could definitely be shot well. But they could definitely not be shot as well as the lighter factory options, at least not by me. The heavier triggers cost me either accuracy or time or some combinations of the two. This was pretty easy to objectively measure.
At this point, if I used any of the NY triggers in my Glocks, I'd be really afraid I'd get carpal tunnel in a hurry from all the extra exertion it would take. My hands, wrists, and arms feel worn enough practicing as much as I do with a more normal trigger.
When I was doing that time of experimentation with the different trigger parts, I didn't really feel like I was safer with the heavier trigger options. I could see the NY1/standard being a little more resilient against casual, administrative, bad handling practices. But assuming one doesn't have those habits (easy to accomplish through training), I'm not so sure it would do a whole lot to prevent ND due to any of the reasons people convulse their hands/fingers in times of stress. And in terms of working the trigger in shooting, I don't tend to think the heavier weight is safer, because it just required that I develop a habit of putting much more weight/pressure on the trigger harder/faster/steeper to operate the trigger in accordance with the sights. So I'm not sure it's any safer from that standpoint. That is a subjective perception on my part though, and I think the safety aspect is harder to measure objectively than accuracy and speed.
The Gadget is a fantastic addition to the Glock. It allows the additional layer of a safety procedure that is otherwise not possible with the gun.
I do think that controlling the muzzle direction by wedging the holster has a pronounced effect on AIWB safety and that's something I'm a huge believer in. Since it got brought up in this thread, here's a video I made that shows some of the difference in self-muzzling out of a strong side IWB, strong side OWB, and properly-wedged AIWB holster.
I'm very disappointed in this post;-) GJM kept making it sound like there was some disagreement, or magical learning point. We have a slightly different take on the different heavy triggers, as well as carpal tunnel, but your conclusions of shootability and what the heavier triggers did for your trigger control (which was my main point), are pretty much identical. My only real disagreement, which is likely very personal, is that the 2 is quite a bit harder to shoot well than the 1. I can shoot the 1 very close to as well as the stock trigger. I can pretty much do that with the 2 also, but it is much more effort, and a higher disaster factor.
Handy
06-20-2016, 02:41 PM
I'm very disappointed in this post;-) GJM kept making it sound like there was some disagreement, or magical learning point. We have a slightly different take on the different heavy triggers, as well as carpal tunnel, but your conclusions of shootability and what the heavier triggers did for your trigger control (which was my main point), are pretty much identical. My only real disagreement, which is likely very personal, is that the 2 is quite a bit harder to shoot well than the 1. I can shoot the 1 very close to as well as the stock trigger. I can pretty much do that with the 2 also, but it is much more effort, and a higher disaster factor.
I also did not find the NY1 to be has heavy as Mr. White's example. Mine was similar in weight to the original Kahr.
Mr_White
06-20-2016, 03:16 PM
I'm very disappointed in this post;-) GJM kept making it sound like there was some disagreement, or magical learning point. We have a slightly different take on the different heavy triggers, as well as carpal tunnel, but your conclusions of shootability and what the heavier triggers did for your trigger control (which was my main point), are pretty much identical. My only real disagreement, which is likely very personal, is that the 2 is quite a bit harder to shoot well than the 1. I can shoot the 1 very close to as well as the stock trigger. I can pretty much do that with the 2 also, but it is much more effort, and a higher disaster factor.
I might be just paranoid about the carpal tunnel. I think maybe I got PTSD from hurting myself with the Captains of Crush a week before AFHF several years ago. Like that reporter shooting the AR maybe. :)
I believe you about the NY2 being harder than the NY1. It was 'sproingier/mushier' - not sure what other bad words to use to describe its character. I never did much work with the NY2 after seeing that the trigger gauge seemed to say it was close to the weight of the NY1. I didn't think I'd get much more out of working with the 2 so I stuck with the 1. That may have been a premature judgment on my part - it was a long time ago now. The NY1 did plenty for me though. That was the first moment I really had the power of dry practice illustrated to me. I worked with that NY1 every day for a month or two months, and then saw my IPDA Classifier score plummet by 20 or 30 seconds, IIRC, all from better accuracy and less points down.
I also did not find the NY1 to be has heavy as Mr. White's example. Mine was similar in weight to the original Kahr.
Wow, my Kahr PM9 has a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay lighter trigger than any of my Glocks with a NY1 trigger spring.
Funny you should say that Mr_White. I had the chance to play with an NY1 and NY2 back to back at an armorers' class and was really taken off guard by how similar they felt to me.
I'm very disappointed in this post;-) GJM kept making it sound like there was some disagreement, or magical learning point. We have a slightly different take on the different heavy triggers, as well as carpal tunnel, but your conclusions of shootability and what the heavier triggers did for your trigger control (which was my main point), are pretty much identical. My only real disagreement, which is likely very personal, is that the 2 is quite a bit harder to shoot well than the 1. I can shoot the 1 very close to as well as the stock trigger. I can pretty much do that with the 2 also, but it is much more effort, and a higher disaster factor.
SLG, I was just trolling you -- I don't even know the difference between number 1 and 2.
I was just giving Mr_White a chance to post his video which always freaks out the trad IWB guys.
The NY1 did plenty for me though. That was the first moment I really had the power of dry practice illustrated to me. I worked with that NY1 every day for a month or two months, and then saw my IPDA Classifier score plummet by 20 or 30 seconds, IIRC, all from better accuracy and less points down.
And that is the whole point. I thought I was a good shooter when I got my NY2 Glock. Not even close to where I ended up after almost 4 years of pulling that awful trigger.
Handy
06-20-2016, 05:49 PM
I might be just paranoid about the carpal tunnel. I think maybe I got PTSD from hurting myself with the Captains of Crush a week before AFHF several years ago. Like that reporter shooting the AR maybe. :)
I believe you about the NY2 being harder than the NY1. It was 'sproingier/mushier' - not sure what other bad words to use to describe its character. I never did much work with the NY2 after seeing that the trigger gauge seemed to say it was close to the weight of the NY1. I didn't think I'd get much more out of working with the 2 so I stuck with the 1. That may have been a premature judgment on my part - it was a long time ago now. The NY1 did plenty for me though. That was the first moment I really had the power of dry practice illustrated to me. I worked with that NY1 every day for a month or two months, and then saw my IPDA Classifier score plummet by 20 or 30 seconds, IIRC, all from better accuracy and less points down.
Wow, my Kahr PM9 has a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay lighter trigger than any of my Glocks with a NY1 trigger spring.
I don't know which Kahr trigger you have. They used to be heavier, which is what I have. It really sounds like NY1 triggers have changed or are variable.
krav51
06-21-2016, 05:54 AM
Regarding the NY1 and minus connector,i've used that combination for years and find it works great for me.The weight to release the striker seemed to stay about the same as the stock spring/connector with my gen two and gen three guns.However when i installed the NY 1 and minus connector in a gen four g19 the weight increased,as did the overtravel.Swapping out to a gen three smooth trigger bar helped considerably.I like the extra resistance in the first stage of the pull,especially when carrying appendix.
Over the past two weeks I've gone through about 700 rounds with the NY1 trigger/stock connector.
I know I'm only supposed to do the Vickers Test once, but I wanted to see if I could draw from the appendix position and clear it several times in a row. With the faster draw and practice with the heavier trigger, my G26 didn't disappoint.
Like everything else, if you dedicate the time and practice, it'll usually work out.
8783
8784
8785
8786
Tamara
06-26-2016, 05:46 PM
I don't know what it is about the Gen4s; I dropped a NY1 spring into my Gen4 34 and trigger pull became astronomically bad. o.O
littlejerry
06-26-2016, 08:01 PM
I don't know what it is about the Gen4s; I dropped a NY1 spring into my Gen4 34 and trigger pull became astronomically bad. o.O
I have had the same observation in a Gen 4 34 and 19. Nothing at all like a Gen 3
Everyone seems to complain about the gen4 triggers. I think all glock triggers suck, but the gen 4 seems to suck the same to me as the gen 3. I just leave the standard setup in there.
Tamara
06-26-2016, 08:38 PM
Everyone seems to complain about the gen4 triggers. I think all glock triggers suck, but the gen 4 seems to suck the same to me as the gen 3. I just leave the standard setup in there.
Out of the box, the trigger on the 34 MOS felt like the regular old Glock trigger. When I bought it (several months ago) I was in this phase of just throwing a NY1 spring/light connector combo (I think I had a handful of one ZEV connector or another at the time) into Glocks prophylactically. I wanted the 34's trigger to feel like my other Glock triggers. With the 34, since it had the gamerfag connector right out of the box, I didn't bother swapping connectors and just put the OD green trigger spring in there. The result was way off the far end of my RCBS fish scale. Probably 9.5 or 10#? (This same setup gives me 7 to 7.5# with a nice rolling break in Gen3 guns.) And the characteristic of the trigger pull is a hot mess, too; you've got that heavy NY1 takeup I like so much and then...HNNNNFFF!!!...this really abrupt high-effort wall with a sharp break.
I keep meaning to switch back to the standard TRS, but I'm absorbed in another Glock project at the moment.
Interesting, I happen to like the NY1/stock connector combo in my Gen 4s.
Is it reliable and can I hit what I'm aiming at? If the answers are "yes," then I'm good to go.
I'm also left handed, have large hands and prefer the SF frame of the Gen 4 Glocks so I don't have a reason to try the earlier Gens.
It can be very hard to have meaningful discussions about Glock triggers because:
1) Glock triggers, even of the same generation, can vary widely/wildly.
2) People often have quite different ideas about what specific characteristics of a Glock trigger they like.
3) People often use very different words, to which they often attach very different meanings, to describe Glock trigger characteristics.
4) People can have widely different missions for their Glock triggers -- spanning the gamut from appendix carry and face shooting to high level gaming.
5) Even with OEM only parts, people often have very different round count springs and parts installed, which can dramatically effect the weight and feel of Glock trigger pulls.
6) Shooter ability can vary widely, and even the way people press a Glock trigger can vary widely.
Tamara
06-26-2016, 11:00 PM
It can be very hard to have meaningful discussions about Glock triggers because:
{Napoleon Dynamite}"God! I'm sorry I said 'gamerfag'!"{/Napoleon Dyamite} :D
{Napoleon Dynamite}"God! I'm sorry I said 'gamerfag'!"{/Napoleon Dyamite} :D
Isn't 'gamerfag' a pleonasm?
krav51
06-27-2016, 04:38 AM
I don't know what it is about the Gen4s; I dropped a NY1 spring into my Gen4 34 and trigger pull became astronomically bad. o.O
Just out of curiosity have you tried dropping a gen three trigger bar in? I experienced the same horrible pull that you did,swapping out for a smooth gen three bar helped.
Tamara
06-27-2016, 06:03 PM
Just out of curiosity have you tried dropping a gen three trigger bar in? I experienced the same horrible pull that you did,swapping out for a smooth gen three bar helped.
I had not tried that, but I do happen to have a spare Gen 3 trigger lying around...
imp1295
06-27-2016, 08:47 PM
I had not tried that, but I do happen to have a spare Gen 3 trigger lying around...
After trying the gem 3, smooth faced trigger bar I'm a fan. Kept the dot connector and stock spring. I just order a few more as a spare and for my new training G19.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
krav51
06-28-2016, 04:43 AM
After trying the gem 3, smooth faced trigger bar I'm a fan. Kept the dot connector and stock spring. I just order a few more as a spare and for my new training G19.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Im aware of the whole gen three in gen four debate and dont want to get into that,was just wondering if any one has had any issues after making the switch?Im at 2000 rounds with no problems.
spinmove_
06-28-2016, 06:44 AM
What exactly did they change in the geometry of the trigger bar to give it such a distinctly different feel? Also, why would they do that?
krav51
06-28-2016, 07:14 AM
What exactly did they change in the geometry of the trigger bar to give it such a distinctly different feel? Also, why would they do that?
Now you did it.:) Its my understanding the only changes are to the area where the standard coil spring attaches(a moot point if you use the ny trigger),and the bump that rides on the frame to prevent the bar from flexing.If any one has more accurate info it would be appreciated.
spinmove_
06-28-2016, 07:25 AM
Now you did it.:) Its my understanding the only changes are to the area where the standard coil spring attaches(a moot point if you use the ny trigger),and the bump that rides on the frame to prevent the bar from flexing.If any one has more accurate info it would be appreciated.
Interesting...were there a lot of trigger bars that were flexing over time?
There isn't a geometry difference between gen3 and gen4 trigger bars per say. The difference is the bump on the vertical extension of the Gen4 trigger bar. It's there to help track the bar correctly over the firing pin safety when the mag catch is swapped for left hand operation. Many feel that the bump touching the side of the slide during firing adds weight/friction to the trigger.
spinmove_
06-28-2016, 07:33 AM
There isn't a geometry difference between gen3 and gen4 trigger bars per say. The difference is the bump on the vertical extension of the Gen4 trigger bar. It's there to help track the bar correctly over the firing pin safety when the mag catch is swapped for left hand operation. Many feel that the bump touching the side of the slide during firing adds weight/friction to the trigger.
That sounds like it would account for the Gen4 trigger's propensity to feel like a staple gun rather than the good old fashioned Gen3 feel that we all know and love.
The NY2! Careful, the amount of pressure needed to pull the trigger could cause the Earth to shatter.
psalms144.1
07-05-2016, 11:16 AM
The NY2! Careful, the amount of pressure needed to pull the trigger could cause the Earth to shatter.Thank God it's in a 9mm. In a 40, that would be a guaranteed KABOOM! Especially if you're limp wristing...
psalms144.1
07-05-2016, 11:41 AM
Eat your heart out.
8920
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcAYMb5uk4
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.