Frank Proctor on Slide manipulations

[JCS]

Forgive me if this has been discussed but I came across this video.

https://youtu.be/Tw8cWNj3qQ4

Specifically the first 8 minutes when he talks about slide manipulation when loading, press checking and clearing malfunctions.

What are the opinions on this? I'm intrigued by the speed of it but wonder about possible dangers of putting your hand in that position?

Also a side question, is Frank Proctor a resource I can trust? Forgive me for my ignorance I'm still learning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SLG]

Frank is a good guy and a forward thinker.

Having said that, I am not sold on front slide manipulations. It is faster, no doubt, but I don't consider the speed advantage to be worth the safety trade off.

Others, no doubt, feel differently.

[Josh Runkle]

Frank is a good guy and a forward thinker.

Having said that, I am not sold on front slide manipulations. It is faster, no doubt, but I don't consider the speed advantage to be worth the safety trade off.

Others, no doubt, feel differently.

I actually have identical thoughts to you:

Frank's a good guy. He knows a lot. Definitely a lot more than me.

I choose not to use this technique for multiple reasons: safety, gun-to-gun transferability of skills with overhand rear of the slide instead (you can't really do front of the slide with, say, an LCP), and my focus is on self-defense and not competition so I favor reliability over speed.

Other people will feel differently than me, and that's ok, but it's not really going to affect how I shoot.

[Matt O]

I took a class with Frank back in 2013 and he, at least according to what he mentioned in class, was just starting to work on this manipulation at that time. It works really well for Frank and, as with most things, he makes it appear smooth and effortless. In the class we specifically did some malfunction clearing and tap-rack-bang drills in which we worked on using that particular technique.

There are definitely some concerns about being closer to the muzzle, but also the difficulty in doing this on firearms without forward slide serrations. At the time I was shooting a Glock 17 and after several repetitions my hands were getting slick and one time the web of my hand slipped off the front part of the slide and got eaten by the barrel tilting up and coming into battery which left a nice bleeder and meant I was pretty much done with that technique for the time being.

I will admit to doing press checks using this technique, but for malfunction clearance and tap-rack-bangs I lean more towards a traditional overhand method.

[Luke]

Frank is awesome. He is about an hour away from me. We've shot a couple matches together (one together and 1 he was there lol). Super cool dude and his transition speed is absolutely mind numbing.

I do everything from the front EXCEPT malf. Clearing. It's just natural to tap rack over hand for me. I'm also limited on the amount of strength I can put in the slide from the front area.

[Matt O]

Frank is awesome. He is about an hour away from me. We've shot a couple matches together (one together and 1 he was there lol). Super cool dude and his transition speed is absolutely mind numbing.

I do everything from the front EXCEPT malf. Clearing. It's just natural to tap rack over hand for me. I'm also limited on the amount of strength I can put in the slide from the front area.

Sweet man, I'm jealous. Being able to pop over for steel or 2 gun matches on his range on a regular basis would be incredible.

Frank is an incredibly gifted shooter. I hope to have the opportunity to train with him again in the future.

[Luke]

For now he is only doing the steel match. We went to his first one and squaded with him. placed 4th out of like 25? That was his biggest steel match so far. It ran late into the dark and I think a lot of people got turned off. But he has it running smooth now. Shot 81.09% of him the last uspsa match we shot together. And he was a cheater limited guy :)




Anyone who hasn't trained/shot with/ been around him, you should. The dude just oozes cool calm and collected. It puts me at ease being around him, like no joke. Awesome dude.

[JHC]

I took a class with Frank back in 2013 and he, at least according to what he mentioned in class, was just starting to work on this manipulation at that time. It works really well for Frank and, as with most things, he makes it appear smooth and effortless. In the class we specifically did some malfunction clearing and tap-rack-bang drills in which we worked on using that particular technique.

There are definitely some concerns about being closer to the muzzle, but also the difficulty in doing this on firearms without forward slide serrations. At the time I was shooting a Glock 17 and after several repetitions my hands were getting slick and one time the web of my hand slipped off the front part of the slide and got eaten by the barrel tilting up and coming into battery which left a nice bleeder and meant I was pretty much done with that technique for the time being.

I will admit to doing press checks using this technique, but for malfunction clearance and tap-rack-bangs I lean more towards a traditional overhand method.

When my younger lad and I trained with him he showed us this and I never got the hang of it and never messed with it again. Frank has some massive mitts.

[JCS]

Frank is a good guy and a forward thinker.

Having said that, I am not sold on front slide manipulations. It is faster, no doubt, but I don't consider the speed advantage to be worth the safety trade off.

Others, no doubt, feel differently.

That's what I figured. I hadn't considered the speed aspect until I saw the video


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Totem Polar]

There are definitely some concerns about being closer to the muzzle, but also the difficulty in doing this on firearms without forward slide serrations. At the time I was shooting a Glock 17 and after several repetitions my hands were getting slick and one time the web of my hand slipped off the front part of the slide and got eaten by the barrel tilting up and coming into battery which left a nice bleeder and meant I was pretty much done with that technique for the time being...
That's my knee-jerk concern as well: aside from my being a klutz and worried about getting a hand that close to the muzzle on the fly, I have concerns about a technique that looks like it could fall apart sooner with hands slicked up with whatever in a bad situation. Sure looks fast and cool though.

[s0nspark]

Given that my carry gun is a CZ P-07, I am finding manipulations using the front cocking serrations advantageous.

I actually bought Frank's video a week or so ago and am practicing malfunction drills as he does them - I had not considered the amount of time that could be gained there for some reason.

[SLG]

Given that my carry gun is a CZ P-07, I am finding manipulations using the front cocking serrations advantageous.

I actually bought Frank's video a week or so ago and am practicing malfunction drills as he does them - I had not considered the amount of time that could be gained there for some reason.

I guess if you carry a CZ, you do need to be worried about time consuming malfunction drills.

[s0nspark]

I guess if you carry a CZ, you do need to be worried about time consuming malfunction drills.

Well, I certainly set that up nicely for you...

[psalms144.1]

I guess if you carry a CZ, you do need to be worried about time consuming malfunction drills.Dayum, son! HATE, HATE, HATE! That's some GOOD hate right there - possibly signature line worthy...

[SLG]

Dayum, son! HATE, HATE, HATE! That's some GOOD hate right there - possibly signature line worthy...

It was just too good to pass up, and I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as I did.:-)

OTOH, my sig line came from BigT, and I think it is pretty cool, having so many meanings. I never really got the point of a sig line, but I'm really kind of honored to say it came from BigT.

[hiro]

I watched the video a few weeks back and like the logic of it. Being a noob and seeing how HK and Walther have forward serrations I didn't think of the chance of muzzling my hand while manipulating the slide but yeah, I should pay attention. I like the idea of keeping my Glock as stock as possible so prior to sending the slide off for machining I've added grip tape (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19042-Anyone-prefer-Glock-17-cut-to-accept-Glock-19-mags-over-a-Glock-19&p=443891&viewfull=1#post443891) to where FP recommends adding serrations to see how it works for me. I don't yet have a strong enough grip to use the web between my index finger and thumb without the tape and the tape rips the shit out of the skin so I grip between the first knuckle of my thumb and the second/third knuckle of my index finger. Is it faster? Certainly on paper but I haven't got anywhere near the speed of people here on the forum with any technique so I can't say it's made me faster.

[JCS]

Well I tried this today during dry fire and I found a couple problems using a g19

1) it's too slick to do it reliably.
2) I have large hands and it puts my hand way too close to the muzzle

Maybe having cocking serrations would help. But for now I'm going to use a different method for malfunctions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El Cid]

I've also trained with Frank and he is a great instructor. That said, as others have stated I'm not a fan of front slide manipulations. Like all trainers, we take things that work for us and don't use what won't. Haven't trained with anyone yet with whom I agree 100% on everything they do. It's up to us individually to incorporate what works in our worlds.

[JohnO]

I trained with Frank last year. I believe Frank had a G34 and he had front serrations of his own design milled into the slide. These serrations were closer to the breach than the muzzle. Definitely further rearward than the typical location of front cocking serrations. Frank's website offers this modification.

[hiro]

Wondering Beard brought it up in this (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20050-Glock-slide-serrations&p=442843&viewfull=1#post442843) thread a few weeks back

[nwhpfan]

That's a long video and I couldn't stay to watch it all. But I do the same reload sometimes. I made this video (https://youtu.be/B92XlNjbYyA?t=4m25s) back in January where I talked about the same thing. I came to the same conclusion via USPSA looking for the fastest way to get to the shooting. FWIW I do this a dozen or so times a year, under stress in all kinds of weather and I've never pinched my hand. I'd also share that I don't always do it like this. Sometimes, depending on the environment I find myself doing overhand racks, or thumb and forefinger, etc. I don't think it's a one size fits all, but I've had some surprise slide lock reloads and found myself doing it this way. I think there is value for an individual to give it an honest go before deciding what works best for them.