Substantive differences between p30sk and p2000sk ? (Replacing G19/G26 Combo)

[JPedersen]

Let me say "Thank You" in advance for any feedback as well as mention that I hesitated to even post this... I have read the recent critique of dialogue on the forum and wanted to make sure I had exhausted what was already out there before posting.

Bulleted Background Points:

- PF (in particular nyeti and EL) along with my 3rd gen. S&W's have brought me back over to the hammer fired side of the house. Divesting out of the usual striker fired options.

- I have been following the EL PX4 project and will hopefully be grabbing one when they roll out.

- Want to end up with a H&K combo of either a: P2000+P2000sk or a P30+P30sk

Question:
Other than the obvious externally observable differences (grip texture, front serrations) and the trigger variants (I believe some of the LEM type variations are available in the P2000sk and not the P30sk) - are there other differences between the 2 that need to be considered?

Here is what I think I know so far:

- FO sights are available for p30sk but not p2000 (and sight considerations seem to be crucial judging from the posts here thus far)

- Holster availability is about equal

- Mag release is larger on p30sk

- External dimensions are roughly the same

- Ergos... are they similar? (this is an unknown to me)

I have pretty much decided on a LEM trigger in whatever pairing I end up with - so the configurability seems important. (I am anticipating and prepared for learning the "new" feel of the LEM trigger)

I have read the more recent posts that are favorable re: p30sk with 4.1 trigger... but is the p2000sk really obsolete? I keep feeling like there must be something I am missing that merits the way both pistols are still kept in the line up. Is the p2000 family on the way out?

I appreciate the help and insight of the PF crew.

[Sero Sed Serio]

The SK models are the same in size, but the P30/P2000 combo definitely is not--the P30 has G17-length grip, while the P2000 has a G19-length grip.

I prefer the P2000 because (and I realize I'm in the minority here) I have trouble with the extended HK mag releases--when I shoot a P30 or a USPc/P2000 with an extended mag release installed, mags fall out under recoil with regularity.

I'm very happy with my P2000/P2000SK combo--very comparable to the G19/G26 combo (although the SK is a bit bigger).

[Dagga Boy]

I have run all the combo's you have listed and still consider all of them as excellent. For a pure battery of 100% concealed carry guns, the P2000's are hard to beat. The slick sides are good against skin. For their intended roles, the sights are not a gigantic issue. Most issues of the P2000 series are not issues in a wholly deep concealment role.

For a shooting and training gun combo'd with a deep concealment version, the P30/P30Sk would get the nod. Better sights and ergo's for training, duty, competition etc...goes to the P30 over the P2000, and then having a P30SK to carry in a concealment role that can set up as a twin in trigger, sights, and function and feel to your Service Size gun gives it a plus. I am essentially doing this with the P30SK to my VP9. If a VP9 SK comes out, I will surely get on, but would carry it closer to 3:00, where I am actually carrying the P30SK in a more traditional AIWB location these days.

[JPedersen]

This is exactly the "real world" / well thought out feedback I was hoping for! I welcome any others who may have info to add. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I really enjoy this forum... Such a great resource.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KG]

I just went through the same process and considered the same pistol combinations you are looking at. There was no easy, perfect answer. Nyeti helped a lot with my decision when I met him at a HiTS class earlier this year. In the end, I chose a DA/SA P2000 and DA/SA P2000SK.

I shoot a Beretta 92 regularly and better than any other pistol. I plan to keep shooting a 92 as my primary pistol. When I started considering carrying a smaller pistol on a regular basis, I naturally thought 92 Compact or Langdon PX4 Compact. I ruled out the 92 Compact due to weight and all of the levers sticking out around the pistol. It didn't offer enough of an advantage over what I was already shooting. I would have bought a Langdon PX4, but they weren't available yet. Also, the few people I know who have owned PX4s had reliability issues. My P2000 is almost 4 ounces lighter than my friend's PX4 compact if that matters. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Ernest's opinion and may still might buy a Langdon PX4 to try when they are available.

After my HiTS First Responder class, I bought a LEM P30 and P2000. I sold the P30 and kept the P2000 because I shot the P2000 better and it was easier to conceal. The P30 felt better in the store, but I shot the P2000 better. I was having trouble with the LEM and paid someone to do both the TLG and 4.1 conversion. I noticed that switching between the LEM and the Beretta was hard for me, so I tried a DA/SA P2000 and was hooked. I shot the DA/SA faster and more accurately from day one. I ordered a DA/SA P2000SK and will have it in a few weeks.

I think the LEM is probably a better trigger system in many respects than TDA. It just wasn't the best option now for me. Also, the DA trigger travel on a P2000 feels similar in length to my Beretta, so the transition back and forth is not bad. The LEM has a bobbed hammer on the P2000, the TDA has a spur. I wish I could find a bobbed TDA hammer. The LEM has a small gap between the hammer and firing pin (especially in 4.1). The DA does not have a gap. The reset is a bit long, but fine for my purposes.

I have handled nyeti's P30SK and it is very nice. It does have more sight options than my P2000. I only chose a P2000SK over a P30SK because I have a P2000 already. I use a Dawson Precision .150 tritium white outline P30 front sight with blacked out factory rear on my P2000. The Dawson Precision P30 sight fits the P2000 fine. The main reason I switched to a Dawson Precision front was my HK factory's front dot was too low. When I put the front dot where it was centered in the rear sight, I shot high. The Dawson dot is higher on the blade and centers in my rear sight better. You should be able to use a Dawson Precision fiber optic front in either a P30SK or P2000 if you want.

I found the P2000 was $300-ish less than a P30. That's about the cost of a front sight and 1000 rounds of practice ammo. P2000SK and P30SK are closer in price.

If I was considering a P30/P30SK combo, I'd actually rather go P30L/P30SK.

That's my pistol journey the last six months. I've found nyeti's advice on this subject is as good as any you'll get anywhere.

[JPedersen]

I just went through the same process and considered the same pistol combinations you are looking at. There was no easy, perfect answer. Nyeti helped a lot with my decision when I met him at a HiTS class earlier this year. In the end, I chose a DA/SA P2000 and DA/SA P2000SK.

I shoot a Beretta 92 regularly and better than any other pistol. I plan to keep shooting a 92 as my primary pistol. When I started considering carrying a smaller pistol on a regular basis, I naturally thought 92 Compact or Langdon PX4 Compact. I ruled out the 92 Compact due to weight and all of the levers sticking out around the pistol. It didn't offer enough of an advantage over what I was already shooting. I would have bought a Langdon PX4, but they weren't available yet. Also, the few people I know who have owned PX4s had reliability issues. My P2000 is almost 4 ounces lighter than my friend's PX4 compact if that matters. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Ernest's opinion and may still might buy a Langdon PX4 to try when they are available.

After my HiTS First Responder class, I bought a LEM P30 and P2000. I sold the P30 and kept the P2000 because I shot the P2000 better and it was easier to conceal. The P30 felt better in the store, but I shot the P2000 better. I was having trouble with the LEM and paid someone to do both the TLG and 4.1 conversion. I noticed that switching between the LEM and the Beretta was hard for me, so I tried a DA/SA P2000 and was hooked. I shot the DA/SA faster and more accurately from day one. I ordered a DA/SA P2000SK and will have it in a few weeks.

I think the LEM is probably a better trigger system in many respects than TDA. It just wasn't the best option now for me. Also, the DA trigger travel on a P2000 feels similar in length to my Beretta, so the transition back and forth is not bad. The LEM has a bobbed hammer on the P2000, the TDA has a spur. I wish I could find a bobbed TDA hammer. The LEM has a small gap between the hammer and firing pin (especially in 4.1). The DA does not have a gap. The reset is a bit long, but fine for my purposes.

I have handled nyeti's P30SK and it is very nice. It does have more sight options than my P2000. I only chose a P2000SK over a P30SK because I have a P2000 already. I use a Dawson Precision .150 tritium white outline P30 front sight with blacked out factory rear on my P2000. The Dawson Precision P30 sight fits the P2000 fine. The main reason I switched to a Dawson Precision front was my HK factory's front dot was too low. When I put the front dot where it was centered in the rear sight, I shot high. The Dawson dot is higher on the blade and centers in my rear sight better. You should be able to use a Dawson Precision fiber optic front in either a P30SK or P2000 if you want.

I found the P2000 was $300-ish less than a P30. That's about the cost of a front sight and 1000 rounds of practice ammo. P2000SK and P30SK are closer in price.

If I was considering a P30/P30SK combo, I'd actually rather go P30L/P30SK.

That's my pistol journey the last six months. I've found nyeti's advice on this subject is as good as any you'll get anywhere.

Thank you for taking the time to type this out and allow me to learn from it. I have been a Smith and Wesson fan for a long time (through the 3rd gen. era !) who tried M&P's and ... well... You know how that went.

I was running Sigs (228/229) at the same time as the 1006/5906/ 3913/ 3953 guns. Sold the Sigs to fund some 1911 and Revolver "itches" ...

Eventually started running the striker fire guns (before I went AIWB) and got used to them. Now that I am carrying AIWB and have spent time thinking about some of the logistics of defensive pistol use (thank you nyeti and EL) I am coming back to the da/sa - hammer fired side. I have been using my 3rd gens but want a current production answer = H&K

Oddly enough - I had the chance to handle a p30L today and I think you are right ... A p30l + p30sk would be a great combo if that is where I land. The total price for the 2 fun package though does have me leaning towards the p2k pairing because of the margin for ammo and mags.

I will be sure to post what I end up doing ... Keep the feedback coming PF ... You guys ROCK.

[Casual Friday]

I am far from an HK or LEM expert, so my experience and advice here is worth slightly less than you paid for it. I reeeeeeally wanted to love the P30, but for most of the same reasons that others like JodyH have mentioned in the past, the P2000 works better for me. I have not shot a P30sk, but I have coon fingered one a few times at the same shop/range where I rented the P30 several times, and it seems like a solid little gun. While they're not identical, I don't think a guy would be setting himself up for failure if he were to choose a P2000 and a P30sk, or a P30 and a P2000sk as his combo.

[Kimura]

I'm curious about the P2000 in 40. Are they as durable as the USPs? I shot the USP compact awhile back and thought it was a really nice shooting .40 but have never shot the P2000. And I would just go shoot one, but I don't know anywhere that I can do that. The P2000 isn't exactly the most popular HK. Thanks to anyone who can provide any information.

[The Apprentice]

Like some others have already said I also prefer my p2000 to my p30 I shoot it better. The grip on the p30 feels great but when actually shooting I find it is easier to get a solid and more consistant grip on the p2000. Never shot either sk version so no help there.

[RJ]

Did a search to find this exact thread.

I'm considering moving away from my PPS M2 for CCW because:reasons.

I have a VP9 for a HD/game gun that I really like; the paddles, the Trijicon HDs, the transformer-like grip, the trigger, etc.

So I think I would net some gains in moving to a hammer fired 10 round subcompact. Probably an SK because my small size M hands fit an SK well.

But, I have a few questions?

- Well, a hammer. I kinda like the concept of a longish DAO trigger. I am new to carry, and have the usual concerns about safety. I am not opposed to AIWB in theory, the obvious concerns about one's Gentleman area notwithstanding. Anyway, a hammer fired subcompact is appealing. I guess I would start with a JM CK IWB version 1. Are there better options for these SK pistols from JM CK?

Also on the trigger, any concerns about going back and forth between VP9 and a P30SK/P2000SK?

- Mag compatability. I understand 15 round VP9 mags will fit in a P30SK. They fit a P2000SK, too, right? That appeals to me, also. Meaning I could carry a 15 round reload.

- Sights are a wash, I guess, but: the P30SK I am looking at is the LE versions. These are Meprolight night sights, right? I'm no mall ninja, and I get the whole 'you just need a bright front sight' concept, but I really like the yellow front sight of my Trijicon HDs. I'm not a huge fan of the rear HD sights, though.

How are the Meprolight night sights on the LE?

I guess I am asking whether the LE price premium is worth it. The third mag seems useful, but...

- Last question is on the LEM "Version". I've shot a P30SK with what I was told was a 'lite' LEM conversion last year. It was really light. I've also shot a P2000 rental TDA.

When you buy a (say) P30SK LEM, what trigger pull weight does that correspond to? I mean, out of the box, do I need to do anything? I admit I am not thrilled with mucking around the innards on a gun intended for CCW.

Lastly, if there is anything else I need to know to avoid being kilt in the streetz, let me know. :cool:

Thanks!

[Sero Sed Serio]

Did a search to find this exact thread.

I'm considering moving away from my PPS M2 for CCW because:reasons.

I have a VP9 for a HD/game gun that I really like; the paddles, the Trijicon HDs, the transformer-like grip, the trigger, etc.

So I think I would net some gains in moving to a hammer fired 10 round subcompact. Probably an SK because my small size M hands fit an SK well.

But, I have a few questions?

- Well, a hammer. I kinda like the concept of a longish DAO trigger. I am new to carry, and have the usual concerns about safety. I am not opposed to AIWB in theory, the obvious concerns about one's Gentleman area notwithstanding. Anyway, a hammer fired subcompact is appealing. I guess I would start with a JM CK IWB version 1. Are there better options for these SK pistols from JM CK?

Also on the trigger, any concerns about going back and forth between VP9 and a P30SK/P2000SK?

- Mag compatability. I understand 15 round VP9 mags will fit in a P30SK. They fit a P2000SK, too, right? That appeals to me, also. Meaning I could carry a 15 round reload.

- Sights are a wash, I guess, but: the P30SK I am looking at is the LE versions. These are Meprolight night sights, right? I'm no mall ninja, and I get the whole 'you just need a bright front sight' concept, but I really like the yellow front sight of my Trijicon HDs. I'm not a huge fan of the rear HD sights, though.

How are the Meprolight night sights on the LE?

I guess I am asking whether the LE price premium is worth it. The third mag seems useful, but...

- Last question is on the LEM "Version". I've shot a P30SK with what I was told was a 'lite' LEM conversion last year. It was really light. I've also shot a P2000 rental TDA.

When you buy a (say) P30SK LEM, what trigger pull weight does that correspond to? I mean, out of the box, do I need to do anything? I admit I am not thrilled with mucking around the innards on a gun intended for CCW.

Lastly, if there is anything else I need to know to avoid being kilt in the streetz, let me know. :cool:

Thanks!

I have a JMCK IWB Version 3 for my SIG 229 (my last traditional IWB holster before switching over to AIWB), and I was very happy with it. It's a smaller footprint than the Version 1. I don't know that it's drastically better or worse option, but it has worked well for me.

The paddle releases on the P30SK are much longer than the P2000SK--98% of the population prefers this, but something about my grip causes me to dump magazines when shooting. I fully acknowledge this makes me weird as opposed to a problem with the paddles, but having paid $700-ish for a P30 only to have the mag fall out like a "Laurel and Hardy go to the range" film was not a fun experience. From now on I will be trying any extended-paddle HKs before I buy. YMPVFMBIFIMIA (Your Mileage Probably Varies From Mine, But I Figured I'd Mention It Anyway--I'm close to the free toaster on my Interwebz acronym points...)

Yes, USPc/P2000 mags and P30/VP9 mags will fit a P2000SK. I don't know if there's an over-insertion stop on either one, though.

The Meprolights are serviceable. Currently I have 2 P2000s with Meps, a P2000 and a P2000SK with the standard Trijicon "Bright and Tough" (with the rear rings blacked out), and my newest P2000 with the standard factory sights waiting for a night sight upgrade. I prefer the Trijicon sights, but the Meprolights aren't bad. For an out-of-the-box, ready-to-go-now package, the LE guns are a great bargain--it's typically $100 over the cost of a standard gun, and when you factor in the cost of the spare mag you're only adding $60-70 for night sights that usually run $100+, to say nothing of installation costs.

LEM seems to be a love it/hate it proposition. I WANT to love it, but I found that I tended to dump shots low without a lot of concentration, my skill level degraded too fast, and it was too different from the DA/SA SIGs that I also shoot regularly, so I switched to DA/SA P2000s and never looked back. The standard LEM is something like 8 lbs. out of the box, long and smooth, with a "wall" at the end that is very much like the SA pull on a DA/SA auto. The light LEM is somewhere around 5 lbs, and the "wall" is more noticeable.

Feel free to PM me if you have other questions.

[RoyGBiv]

LEM vs DA/SA...... LEM has a bobbed hammer. Like this feature mucho-mucho carrying AIWB.

Mag release.... I swapped the puny mag dropper in my P2KSK's for the HK45 (I believe) mag release. Drop in replacement. 5 minutes. Much happier.

Mepro's are OK but I wish they had multi color that fit the P2KSK.... Mine are all green. Work fine, but would like to have Orange/Yellow or Orange/whatever. Could not find when I went shopping, maybe they are available now?

[RJ]

Awesome, thanks guys. ^^^

Good example of why this forum is so great. Lot of expertise from great folks willing to share.

So, would never have thought about mag release.

Is the P30SK mag release more like the VP9, then?

I need to add, part of the reason for going all-paddle was the button mag release in the PPS. I may or may not have had two 'hits' while carrying recently. Awkward.

[Wondering Beard]

So, would never have thought about mag release.

Is the P30SK mag release more like the VP9, then?

if the SK is like its P30 big brother, then yes.

[SteveB]

Let me say "Thank You" in advance for any feedback as well as mention that I hesitated to even post this... I have read the recent critique of dialogue on the forum and wanted to make sure I had exhausted what was already out there before posting.

Bulleted Background Points:

- PF (in particular nyeti and EL) along with my 3rd gen. S&W's have brought me back over to the hammer fired side of the house. Divesting out of the usual striker fired options.

- I have been following the EL PX4 project and will hopefully be grabbing one when they roll out.

- Want to end up with a H&K combo of either a: P2000+P2000sk or a P30+P30sk

Question:
Other than the obvious externally observable differences (grip texture, front serrations) and the trigger variants (I believe some of the LEM type variations are available in the P2000sk and not the P30sk) - are there other differences between the 2 that need to be considered?

Here is what I think I know so far:

- FO sights are available for p30sk but not p2000 (and sight considerations seem to be crucial judging from the posts here thus far)

- Holster availability is about equal

- Mag release is larger on p30sk

- External dimensions are roughly the same

- Ergos... are they similar? (this is an unknown to me)

I have pretty much decided on a LEM trigger in whatever pairing I end up with - so the configurability seems important. (I am anticipating and prepared for learning the "new" feel of the LEM trigger)

I have read the more recent posts that are favorable re: p30sk with 4.1 trigger... but is the p2000sk really obsolete? I keep feeling like there must be something I am missing that merits the way both pistols are still kept in the line up. Is the p2000 family on the way out?

I appreciate the help and insight of the PF crew.

The P2000 9mm TDA (V3) with a 2-spring trigger job is my primary carry gun. The HK45c mag release works great on the P2000, and, for me, is a significant improvement. Dawson now makes F/O front sights for the P2000. I had an SK for a while, but the difference in size from the P2000 is so minor, that the SK never got into service. It is about 1/2" shorter in the butt, and I find that, for me, the P2000 with flat baseplate conceals as well as the SK. I use a JMK George AIWB with wedge, and carry a P30 mag as a reload. I agree the P30 feels great in the hand, but I shoot the P2000 better, it is easier to conceal and more comfortable to carry. For a couple of years, I ran P2000's, P30's and HK45c with TLG LEM triggers, but gave them up as I really prefer the TDA trigger. Having said that, I am currently screwing around with an old USP9 with a hybrid match/LEM trigger upgrade. I like this enough that I sent a beater USP9c to HK for the same upgrade (minus the trigger with overtravel stop). Anyway, if you decide on the P2000, I'd carry it for a while to figure out if you really need the SK.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I shoot my P30 a bit better than my P2000, but not much. The P2K carries much better for me, so much so I just never had a use for the SK models. I didn't find an appreciable gain in concealment vs the standard P2K. This will vary by individual of course.

I did find that the P30sk was easier to shoot well than the P2Ksk. Similarly to how the Glock hump works best for many people in the G26, the contour grip of the P30sk locks in for me better than the p2000sk. The triggers on all of these p-series guns are essentially the same, so you won't get kilt in DA streetz if you carry a p2k and a p30sk or vice versa.

Now that Dawson is doing P2000 sights, the world is a better place. This is my next purchase when finances recover from the upcoming wedding.

I really like LEM, my guns are set up TLG configuration, but I also like the light LEM. DA trigger travel with a striker trigger weight is a concept that just clicks for me. Having now done two classes that heavily stressed target discrimination and transitioning from no-shoot to don't shoot yet to NOWNOWNOW, I have begun to truly appreciate all that praise DB has lauded upon the system for dealing with realistic problems.

[psalms144.1]

If I was considering a P30/P30SK combo, I'd actually rather go P30L/P30SK. I agree with a lot of what you wrote, though I still find the most HK's DA trigger to be darned near unusable (weight, grit, etc). I do, however, agree 10,000% with the recommendation for the P30L over the P30. The P30's shortish slide over longish grip makes no sense to me, and the P30L balances and points more naturally for me. When I run a hammer gun, though, it's a P2000, just for concealability issues and because I find I shoot it as well or better than the standard P30 that I've got.

[RJ]

I bought a P30SK LEM yesterday.

Pretty happy with it, just doing some dry manipulation and handling so far.

Question?

Do I need to use a snap cap for dry practice?

This is my first hammer fired pistol.

Thanks!

[MGW]

I bought a P30SK LEM yesterday.

Pretty happy with it, just doing some dry manipulation and handling so far.

Question?

Do I need to use a snap cap for dry practice?

This is my first hammer fired pistol.

Thanks!

You'll be fine without snap caps. I tend to use them with my Sigs but I dry fire a lot. Just a little extra protection.

Curious to hear how you get along with the SK. I picked up a VP9 cheap to mess around with. If it sticks I might try a SK for low pro concealed carry. I really like my 229 but the weight wears on me sometimes. I also like keeping controls consistent

[RJ]

You'll be fine without snap caps. I tend to use them with my Sigs but I dry fire a lot. Just a little extra protection.

Curious to hear how you get along with the SK. I picked up a VP9 cheap to mess around with. If it sticks I might try a SK for low pro concealed carry. I really like my 229 but the weight wears on me sometimes. I also like keeping controls consistent

Thanks, and will do.

Just dry practice so far; planning first range trip next week sometime to check out my accuracy, carry ammo, and basic function check.

[psalms144.1]

Do I need to use a snap cap for dry practice?Rich - I consider snap caps to be very cheap insurance against breaking a very expensive pistol. I use them in all my dry fire practice - just a habit I've gotten into over the years. A pack of 5 A-Zooms will cost you about $15, I think - so, why would you NOT use snap caps?

[RJ]

Rich - I consider snap caps to be very cheap insurance against breaking a very expensive pistol. I use them in all my dry fire practice - just a habit I've gotten into over the years. A pack of 5 A-Zooms will cost you about $15, I think - so, why would you NOT use snap caps?

Thanks! Makes sense. I have a few Tipton ones, so I figured 'why not' and stuck one in a mag and chambered it tonight.

During dry practice, I reset the LEM (precocking?) by pressing the trigger slightly, then cocking the hammer the rest of the way. Seemed to work, as I did not have to rack the slide.