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JCS
06-13-2016, 12:53 PM
What's the general consensus on this thing?

I've been looking into a small fixed blade knife to carry as a last resort type weapon. For $40 this seems hard to beat. Is my money better spent elsewhere?


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tanner
06-13-2016, 08:59 PM
I carried one on duty LE for a while until my command staff decreed that folders were okay but fixed blades were not.

Carried it behind my magazines on my belt, I am a bit overweight but I felt it was comfortable enough. If you are like me and have little to no knife fighting training, I think it will do just fine for what it is designed for.

Chuck Haggard
06-13-2016, 09:03 PM
Well designed for what it is, easy to use with standard old punching techniques, can be used as a utility knife in a pinch.

Downside is that the sheath is rather insecure, and easy to spot, and IMHO anyone actually wearing this thing behind a duty belt is at minimum kidding themselves, at worst setting themselves up to get the shit stabbed out of them by their own knife. Hence why I carry mine in a weak side pocket and draw it as one would draw a pocket pistol.

voodoo_man
06-13-2016, 09:16 PM
Good to go. Will post pix later.

Ive carried one daily at work for years and used it on occasion.

tanner
06-13-2016, 09:16 PM
It is a wonder I survived!

Chuck Haggard
06-13-2016, 09:23 PM
It is a wonder I survived!

You may not have worked on how easy it is to take one of the TDIs from someone under the pressure of a grapple and not even know the guy has it untill you get stabbed with it.

Cookie Monster
06-13-2016, 09:31 PM
I got a Watson Magni and Small Bowie in Titanium that I use daily. I also had a pikal, I could not get used to the reverse edge so I sold it.

Watson knives are sized to get work done and conceal in a pocket with sheaths that are tight and solid. One as a neck knife or mounted on a pocket shield in a pocket is my solid choice.

orionz06
06-13-2016, 09:36 PM
It's decent for $40 though I am more partial to a straighter knife such as an Izula or other similar blade in the price range. Expand things a bit and the Clinch Pick falls into favor.

Hizzie
06-13-2016, 10:36 PM
Purpose designed tool. OEM sheath is utter shit. Poor retention and no concealment. Aftermarket options exist.

JCS
06-14-2016, 05:32 AM
Purpose designed tool. OEM sheath is utter shit. Poor retention and no concealment. Aftermarket options exist.

I've been looking up aftermarket sheaths and there are a few good options. They run about as much as the knife so I'm really looking at $80 total.


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HCM
06-14-2016, 05:57 AM
It is a wonder I survived!

In 2010, Austin, TX, Police Officer Frank Wilson was stabbed in the neck with his own fixed blade knife during an altercation with a suspect. My understanding from local sources is the knife was a TDI carried on the duty belt behind the officers magazines....


http://kut.org/post/austin-police-officer-shoots-and-kills-suspect


Austin police officer shot and killed a suspect late Thursday night, after an altercation in which the suspect stabbed the officer. Frank Wilson and another officer tried to pull over a car that ran a stop sign in Northwest Austin near Parmer and McNeil. The driver got out of the car and started running and then got into a fight with Wilson. The suspect reportedly grabbed Wilson’s knife and stabbed him. Wilson then shot the suspect, who died at the scene.

See also:

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/Officer_Stabbed_During_Traffic_Stop_Shoots_Kills_A ssailant_112428029.html

JCS
06-14-2016, 07:41 AM
Good to go. Will post pix later.

Ive carried one daily at work for years and used it on occasion.

What sheath did you use for it?


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JCS
06-14-2016, 07:42 AM
In 2010, Austin, TX, Police Officer Frank Wilson was stabbed in the neck with his own fixed blade knife during an altercation with a suspect. My understanding from local sources is the knife was a TDI carried on the duty belt behind the officers magazines....


http://kut.org/post/austin-police-officer-shoots-and-kills-suspect



See also:

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/Officer_Stabbed_During_Traffic_Stop_Shoots_Kills_A ssailant_112428029.html

I'm curious what makes this knife easier to take than other fixed blades?


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voodoo_man
06-14-2016, 07:47 AM
I carried this one duty for years, until I used it and now it sits somewhere in with other evidence.

http://i.imgur.com/2QALJs7.jpg

I currently carry a TDI hinderer (bottom one) in an OEM sheath - it actually has a locking mechanism that you can defeat with your thumb, sort of like a duty gun holster.

http://i.imgur.com/iJji8UF.jpg


Just a note - I would never tell anyone to carry either one of these with no training. You need to know how to deploy them, how to fight for retention and how to keep people you are fighting from using your own tools on you. Essentially it is the equivalent to a retained/duty firearm, if you understand how to keep it from the bad guy, and train towards that end, you'll be able to keep the blade retained and use it in tight situations.

I will always advocate having a blade in a position of ambi-access. It can have retention or not, concealment is the best retention.

Hizzie
06-14-2016, 09:08 AM
Training is important with the TDI. It was designed with certain techniques in mind. I trained with John Benner and Greg Ellifritz shortly after the knife was released.

txdpd
06-14-2016, 01:41 PM
I used to carry open top magazine pouch and push knife behind it, until I got in a fight and took a glancing blow to the face with my own magazine. Ended up with two layers of stitches above my eyebrows and another broken nose. An inch lower would have been in the eye, and that would have been bad. A direct shot to the skull a little higher would have been lights out at a minimum if not drt. Had he grabbed the push knife behind my magazines I would have been in serious trouble. The 8 years with no problems was negated in a couple of seconds.

Everything on my belt is in snapped pouches, no visible knives, and pens have caps on the pointy ends.

I'm personally of the opinion these days that more stuff on the belt is just more dead weight to carry more stuff to lose.

JCS
06-14-2016, 05:28 PM
For what it's worth mine will always be concealed. I like the hinderer one as well. I might not need another sheath with it.


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HCM
06-14-2016, 06:25 PM
I'm curious what makes this knife easier to take than other fixed blades?


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its not the knife itself, it's the method of carry, open carried on a duty belt with no retention because you believe its "hidden" behind your mag pouch.

Detailed discussion of the issue here: http://thinblueflorida.com/?p=2622

A year or two ago, they (KBAR) switched to a locking sheath to address the issue :

http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/201

http://thinblueflorida.com/?p=9106

Hizzie
06-14-2016, 06:59 PM
That locking sheath only seems useful to one hand. Original TDI was meant for ambi access.

BJXDS
06-14-2016, 08:11 PM
Well designed for what it is, easy to use with standard old punching techniques, can be used as a utility knife in a pinch.

Downside is that the sheath is rather insecure, and easy to spot, and IMHO anyone actually wearing this thing behind a duty belt is at minimum kidding themselves, at worst setting themselves up to get the shit stabbed out of them by their own knife. Hence why I carry mine in a weak side pocket and draw it as one would draw a pocket pistol.


Purpose designed tool. OEM sheath is utter shit. Poor retention and no concealment. Aftermarket options exist.

Are you guys talking about in an LE environment/ open carry or as a civi/concealed. Any drawbacks in a civi/concealed role?

HCM
06-14-2016, 08:30 PM
That locking sheath only seems useful to one hand. Original TDI was meant for ambi access.

If your going to put it on a duty belt I think the retention is a good trade off. I would set it up for support hand release. Most concealed options, pocket, vest under shirt, etc are going to limit ambi options.

Hizzie
06-14-2016, 08:51 PM
Are you guys talking about in an LE environment/ open carry or as a civi/concealed. Any drawbacks in a civi/concealed role?

I mostly wore mine when I was LE. Still a usable tool for regular old CCW.

JCS
06-14-2016, 09:35 PM
I'm really interested in its role as a civilian/concealed option. If I were to get one I would always have a shirt concealing it.


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JPedersen
06-16-2016, 05:50 PM
I am a fan of the Clinch Pick ... As a CCW / civi fixed blade.


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Chuck Haggard
06-16-2016, 06:40 PM
I'm curious what makes this knife easier to take than other fixed blades?


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Nothing, but most people don't wear a fixed blade in the open with a very quick to grab almost doesn't retain the blade at all sheath.

BobM
06-16-2016, 08:04 PM
I've worn mine concealed off duty sometimes but never on duty due to the retention concern.


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Isaac
06-17-2016, 03:43 PM
I thought the handle was too thin. Maybe if it was wrapped in tennis or hockey tape? Idk, I live in FL though, we can carry real PDs/

Cecil Burch
06-17-2016, 04:00 PM
I'm really interested in its role as a civilian/concealed option. If I were to get one I would always have a shirt concealing it.


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It is a really good option for that role. I prefer a clinchpick, but for such an inexpensive blade, the TDI is definitely up there as a top pick.

Try to get some hands on training with someone who understands the best way to use such a blade.

SLG
06-17-2016, 04:22 PM
Try to get some hands on training with someone who understands the best way to use such a blade.

"I know how to use it. The pointy end goes into the other man."

:-)

JCS
06-17-2016, 04:25 PM
If the phlster sheath goes back in stock I will probably get one. I'll wait and see if the cp resurfaces.


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SLG
06-17-2016, 04:35 PM
If the phlster sheath goes back in stock I will probably get one. I'll wait and see if the cp resurfaces.


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I think we need a chart showing people what a Tier 1 knife is vs. a tear 5 knife. The CP is my assault weapon of choice. If "they" think that my AK-15 is an EBR, with its 30 clip, 500 magazine a second firing rate, wait till they see my CP. It NEVER runs out of ammo.

Fwiw, I found the philster sheath to suck. DSG makes a much better one, though the factory is really quite good too.

orionz06
06-17-2016, 04:46 PM
I think we need a chart showing people what a Tier 1 knife is vs. a tear 5 knife. The CP is my assault weapon of choice. If "they" think that my AK-15 is an EBR, with its 30 clip, 500 magazine a second firing rate, wait till they see my CP. It NEVER runs out of ammo.

Fwiw, I found the philster sheath to suck. DSG makes a much better one, though the factory is really quite good too.

Thanks!

Pro-tip... Factory sheath is adequate and with the addition of a soft loop and some time with hand tools can function the same as mine.

Pro-tip #2... I posted the steps somewhere on how to do this.

voodoo_man
06-17-2016, 04:52 PM
I think we need a chart showing people what a Tier 1 knife is vs. a tear 5 knife. The CP is my assault weapon of choice. If "they" think that my AK-15 is an EBR, with its 30 clip, 500 magazine a second firing rate, wait till they see my CP. It NEVER runs out of ammo.

Fwiw, I found the philster sheath to suck. DSG makes a much better one, though the factory is really quite good too.

Tier 1?

Zero tier or go home airsofter.

JCS
06-17-2016, 06:29 PM
I think we need a chart showing people what a Tier 1 knife is vs. a tear 5 knife. The CP is my assault weapon of choice. If "they" think that my AK-15 is an EBR, with its 30 clip, 500 magazine a second firing rate, wait till they see my CP. It NEVER runs out of ammo.

Fwiw, I found the philster sheath to suck. DSG makes a much better one, though the factory is really quite good too.

I'll check theirs out!

Edit; a quick Google search doesn't pull up anything for dsg.
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JCS
06-17-2016, 06:30 PM
Thanks!

Pro-tip... Factory sheath is adequate and with the addition of a soft loop and some time with hand tools can function the same as mine.

Pro-tip #2... I posted the steps somewhere on how to do this.

I'll see if the handy search function helps.


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Wondering Beard
06-17-2016, 06:44 PM
I'll check theirs out!

Edit; a quick Google search doesn't pull up anything for dsg.
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dsg=Dark Star Gear aka Orionz06 company

SLG
06-17-2016, 07:09 PM
dsg=Dark Star Gear aka Orionz06 company

This. Sorry.

orionz06
06-18-2016, 10:11 AM
dsg=Dark Star Gear aka Orionz06 company

Thanks! I don't make much of an effort to promote like I should.

Cecil Burch
06-18-2016, 10:33 AM
"I know how to use it. The pointy end goes into the other man."

:-)

Well, yeah. :)

jdesro
06-19-2016, 10:55 AM
If the phlster sheath goes back in stock I will probably get one. I'll wait and see if the cp resurfaces.



I have one of these for mine: http://cncholsters.com/ka-bar-tdi-sheath/

I'm pretty happy with it. It has great retention - there is no way the knife will come loose from the sheath on it's own - but the knife will pop out easily when drawn.

I carry it concealed IWB on my off-hand side.

They also offer a horizontal carry sheath for the TDI http://cncholsters.com/horizontal-ka-bar-tdi-sheath/

Just for the record I have no affiliation with this company, just a satisfied customer.

EM_
06-19-2016, 02:21 PM
I think we need a chart showing people what a Tier 1 knife is vs. a tear 5 knife. The CP is my assault weapon of choice. If "they" think that my AK-15 is an EBR, with its 30 clip, 500 magazine a second firing rate, wait till they see my CP. It NEVER runs out of ammo.

Fwiw, I found the philster sheath to suck. DSG makes a much better one, though the factory is really quite good too.

So could the CP be set up in a uniform role? I'm trying envision if the way the DSG sheath works would it fit under a standard Sam Browne and still provide access?

Curious as headed back to patrol and I might invest in a CP for that role if it could be made to work....

HCM
06-19-2016, 02:39 PM
So could the CP be set up in a uniform role? I'm trying envision if the way the DSG sheath works would it fit under a standard Sam Browne and still provide access?

Curious as headed back to patrol and I might invest in a CP for that role if it could be made to work....

Maybe mount to your vest under your shirt?

EM_
06-19-2016, 02:57 PM
Maybe mount to your vest under your shirt?

Exterior vests...

Dunno maybe I'll have to do pocket carry, but I'd prefer to have a subtle fixed blade available for weapon retention, etc.

Wondering Beard
06-19-2016, 04:18 PM
So could the CP be set up in a uniform role? I'm trying envision if the way the DSG sheath works would it fit under a standard Sam Browne and still provide access?

Curious as headed back to patrol and I might invest in a CP for that role if it could be made to work....

You could, though I imagine you'd would need a large belt loop for the sheath since the Browne belt is rather wide. However, in order to keep it well concealed, you'd need to run the sheath under the belt; in my experience with regular CCW belts (I'm not LEO so I can't speak about those belts), it has made getting a good grip on that small handle rather difficult so I prefer to have the sheath outside the belt. It may very well work for you though.


Exterior vests...

Dunno maybe I'll have to do pocket carry, but I'd prefer to have a subtle fixed blade available for weapon retention, etc.

Does your vest have MOLLE attachments? if so, you may be able to attach it handle pointed down under some other equipment.

SLG
06-19-2016, 05:07 PM
So could the CP be set up in a uniform role? I'm trying envision if the way the DSG sheath works would it fit under a standard Sam Browne and still provide access?

Curious as headed back to patrol and I might invest in a CP for that role if it could be made to work....

Totally depends on you and your equipment. You might be able to run a DSG sheath on your pants belt, and then put the duty belt over it. That might block the grip too much though, IDK...

EM_
06-19-2016, 05:41 PM
Does your vest have MOLLE attachments? if so, you may be able to attach it handle pointed down under some other equipment.

Nope.. It's a Class A style. Adds very little utility...

EM_
06-19-2016, 05:42 PM
Totally depends on you and your equipment. You might be able to run a DSG sheath on your pants belt, and then put the duty belt over it. That might block the grip too much though, IDK...

I'll have to play with it a little, but I think it will block the grip too much.

I might go with an Izula in a similar setup. That extra bit of grip might be enough to make it work, and facing down provides some added snatch-resistance vs. the normal orientation guys run on the TDI.

Cecil Burch
06-20-2016, 11:34 AM
I'll have to play with it a little, but I think it will block the grip too much.

I might go with an Izula in a similar setup. That extra bit of grip might be enough to make it work, and facing down provides some added snatch-resistance vs. the normal orientation guys run on the TDI.



I suggest reaching out to Tom at Dark Star (orionz06 on this board) and see if he has any ideas. It would not surprise me if he has.

Chuck Whitlock
06-21-2016, 01:43 PM
Exterior vests...

Dunno maybe I'll have to do pocket carry, but I'd prefer to have a subtle fixed blade available for weapon retention, etc.

I do this currently, in front left pocket (TDI). I currently have some rubbery stuff wrapped around the factory sheath, but the better way would be to use a DSG or similar sheath mounted to a Raven pocketshield:

http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/other-products/

This would work with any of the blades you've mentioned.

When I wore a navy blue uniform with a taser @ 9;00 for a LH draw, I had a sheath mounted to the tek-lok of the serpa taser holster.

EM_
06-22-2016, 08:58 AM
I do this currently, in front left pocket (TDI). I currently have some rubbery stuff wrapped around the factory sheath, but the better way would be to use a DSG or similar sheath mounted to a Raven pocketshield:

http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/other-products/

This would work with any of the blades you've mentioned.

When I wore a navy blue uniform with a taser @ 9;00 for a LH draw, I had a sheath mounted to the tek-lok of the serpa taser holster.

That's interesting. I think Chuck mentioned he carries in his pocket as well.

Have you tried accessing it from the pocket while entangled? Seems that particularly if I'm in a FUT it would be hard to access the pocket at all.

Paul Sharp
06-22-2016, 11:26 AM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160622/d79c4de24bd4fc87394b46567401f8cc.jpg

This is the original TDI Kbar that DR Middlebrooks gave to me in 2000. I've carried it constantly. You can see a size comparison in the pic. It's a decently large concealed carry piece. The sheath was made by Pete at Fin Design and as you can see it is setup to make the knife ride low on the belt line. DR told Pete I would be using it for work, and that's the sheath that was on the knife when it was given to me.

With this design the handle of the knife rides below the tops of my magazines, and under my exterior vest cover. Guys have a hard time spotting it even when they know it's there.

Re; CP on a duty rig. I don't think it will work on a uniformed duty rig in the traditional sense that a CP is carried. I have played around with a Molle mount underneath the exterior vest cover so you carry the knife under your EC, accessible with either hand. When I asked the tailor to sew Molle on the inside of my vest cover I got some rolled eyes, and "I don't even want to know..."

It worked okay, except it can be difficult to get your hand under there if the guy has knee ride. Something that fails against purple/brown belts isn't enough for me to say it won't work against your average "street fighter" type. In the end I went back to the TDI on my belt because I've got so much pressure tested time invested in that one, once I open that IFWA window, and go for the TDI on my belt it's rare that my opponents are able to foul my draw.

I ran Ian Wendt's PD in the same location for a time but that was like wearing a piece of art. Functional art to be sure but not something I wanted to take a chance on losing. Also the handle is a lighter bronze color so it stood out against my dark blue uniform shirt.


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SLG
06-22-2016, 11:54 AM
Paul,

Do you carry the TDI on your left side, handle to the left for a left hand draw, or are you left handed, and carry it on the right side for a left hand draw?

Paul Sharp
06-22-2016, 04:08 PM
Paul,

Do you carry the TDI on your left side, handle to the left for a left hand draw, or are you left handed, and carry it on the right side for a left hand draw?

Left side for left hand draw but accessible with either hand.

SLG
06-22-2016, 04:20 PM
Left side for left hand draw but accessible with either hand.

Copy, thanks!

ssb
06-22-2016, 04:24 PM
I'm pretty ignant about such things, but is the TDI basically used as one would a push dagger?

Paul Sharp
06-22-2016, 05:04 PM
I'm pretty ignant about such things, but is the TDI basically used as one would a push dagger?

Yep, for me and the guys that have trained with me.

EM_
06-22-2016, 06:35 PM
Thanks for the info Paul. Good to see you back on the net! I'll be back on patrol in a county nearby you starting soon.

I sort of like the idea of the TDI because in the event of a rare need to defend it in court it's intended purpose isn't "ninja death machine" but designed for LEO's and weapon retention. I also don't like to carry really high dollar gear on the street.

I know, kind of Ayoob of me, but could be a little validity.

SLG
06-22-2016, 06:46 PM
Yep, for me and the guys that have trained with me.

I'm curious if you have a preference for the tdi or a push dagger, in this role.

eta: Now that I'm not on my phone...I assume you prefer the TDI since you are carrying it, but I wonder why you prefer it over a push dagger, if you use it like a push dagger. I assume it has to do with better access with either hand, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it, not mine. :-)

Paul Sharp
06-23-2016, 12:22 PM
I'm curious if you have a preference for the tdi or a push dagger, in this role.

eta: Now that I'm not on my phone...I assume you prefer the TDI since you are carrying it, but I wonder why you prefer it over a push dagger, if you use it like a push dagger. I assume it has to do with better access with either hand, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it, not mine. :-)

I prefer a PD, the issue has always been finding one that hides well on a duty belt while still being functional. The PD designed by Craig was close to perfect but never made it to production. I carry Ian Wendt's design daily as it's the closest one I've found to Craig's design. It fits my hand, and it's clearly designed by a guy that does the work but the bronze handle caused numerous folks to ask about it so it went back to a concealed carry piece.

Joseph Timbs designed a PD that is pretty robust, and well designed. I carried that one on my duty belt for a couple months, it worked very well but it has a stainless handle which stood out against my uniform enough to be noticed fairly often. It was a T&E piece, and there were some issues with the sheath that have since been corrected. While those issues were being corrected I put the TDI back on my belt. I have wrapped the handle with a black tennis racket type grip tape. That seems to help it blend in with my uniform better. A close friend borrowed and is wearing the Timbs PD with new sheath on his duty gear at this time, and reports are really favorable. I think I'm going to have to fight him to get it back.

Overall, I really prefer a PD, the challenge has been to find one that is designed by a knife maker AND fighter. Most are made by guys that are artisan knife makers so we end up with a gorgeous but nonfunctional knife. I have boxes of PDs that were a waste of money, and time. It's taken me 20 years to find 2 I'm willing to carry all the time. Either I'm too picky or making a functional PD is more challenging than I realize.


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SouthNarc
06-23-2016, 01:04 PM
Making a functional PD is more challenging than I realize.

^This. Making a good PD that won't roll when you actually hit something, is easily carried, and fits most hand shapes is FAR more challenging than a straight knife. There's a sweet spot between neck and blade length that's amazingly difficult to hit.

That being said here's our prototype just back from our Chinese manufacturer and is the collaboration between ShivWorks and Watson Knives. Paul I'll have this out to you in the mail today so you can punch some shit with it. We're looking at a price point of $110-$110 for these retail.

8726

DI1
06-23-2016, 01:19 PM
^This. Making a good PD that won't roll when you actually hit something, is easily carried, and fits most hand shapes is FAR more challenging than a straight knife. There's a sweet spot between neck and blade length that's amazingly difficult to hit.

That being said here's our prototype just back from our Chinese manufacturer and is the collaboration between ShivWorks and Watson Knives. Paul I'll have this out to you in the mail today so you can punch some shit with it. We're looking at a price point of $110-$110 for these retail.

8726

Craig,
When will these be available? I was very impressed with the custom version you had.

Thanks!

Paul Sharp
06-23-2016, 01:31 PM
... Paul I'll have this out to you in the mail today so you can punch some shit with it....

8726

O. Hell. Yes. Some days it's good to be me.

(I'll try not to put this one through any car doors or motorcycle helmets... Unless I have to get it on. If he's making a move, I've got to get it on!)

NickA
06-23-2016, 01:38 PM
^This. Making a good PD that won't roll when you actually hit something, is easily carried, and fits most hand shapes is FAR more challenging than a straight knife. There's a sweet spot between neck and blade length that's amazingly difficult to hit.

That being said here's our prototype just back from our Chinese manufacturer and is the collaboration between ShivWorks and Watson Knives. Paul I'll have this out to you in the mail today so you can punch some shit with it. We're looking at a price point of $110-$110 for these retail.

8726
Great looking piece, and glad to see your designs being more available!
Could that be carried horizontal center line like a CP, or would the handle hang down too much?

SouthNarc
06-23-2016, 01:49 PM
Craig,
When will these be available? I was very impressed with the custom version you had.



Thanks!


I'm hoping to have an initial run of 3-500 with trainers by years end.

SouthNarc
06-23-2016, 01:50 PM
O. Hell. Yes. Some days it's good to be me.

(I'll try not to put this one through any car doors or motorcycle helmets... Unless I have to get it on. If he's making a move, I've got to get it on!)

Punch whatever you want. It IS a proto so do it to it!

SouthNarc
06-23-2016, 01:51 PM
Great looking piece, and glad to see your designs being more available!
Could that be carried horizontal center line like a CP, or would the handle hang down too much?

You're gonna want to run this one vertically buddy.

Hizzie
06-23-2016, 01:54 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160622/d79c4de24bd4fc87394b46567401f8cc.jpg

This is the original TDI Kbar that DR Middlebrooks gave to me in 2000. I've carried it constantly. You can see a size comparison in the pic. It's a decently large concealed carry piece. The sheath was made by Pete at Fin Design and as you can see it is setup to make the knife ride low on the belt line. DR told Pete I would be using it for work, and that's the sheath that was on the knife when it was given to me.

With this design the handle of the knife rides below the tops of my magazines, and under my exterior vest cover. Guys have a hard time spotting it even when they know it's there.

Re; CP on a duty rig. I don't think it will work on a uniformed duty rig in the traditional sense that a CP is carried. I have played around with a Molle mount underneath the exterior vest cover so you carry the knife under your EC, accessible with either hand. When I asked the tailor to sew Molle on the inside of my vest cover I got some rolled eyes, and "I don't even want to know..."

It worked okay, except it can be difficult to get your hand under there if the guy has knee ride. Something that fails against purple/brown belts isn't enough for me to say it won't work against your average "street fighter" type. In the end I went back to the TDI on my belt because I've got so much pressure tested time invested in that one, once I open that IFWA window, and go for the TDI on my belt it's rare that my opponents are able to foul my draw.

I ran Ian Wendt's PD in the same location for a time but that was like wearing a piece of art. Functional art to be sure but not something I wanted to take a chance on losing. Also the handle is a lighter bronze color so it stood out against my dark blue uniform shirt.


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Nice. That's the large. The Fin Designs scabbard is what all the TDI Instructors were using when I trained on it. That's was a clue.

Paul Sharp
06-23-2016, 02:01 PM
Punch whatever you want. It IS a proto so do it to it!

Some folks better hide!

ssb
06-23-2016, 04:42 PM
I'm liking that push dagger. I'm liking it even more now that I'm back in a state with no restrictions on what kind of knife I can carry.


Thanks for the info Paul. Good to see you back on the net! I'll be back on patrol in a county nearby you starting soon.

I sort of like the idea of the TDI because in the event of a rare need to defend it in court it's intended purpose isn't "ninja death machine" but designed for LEO's and weapon retention. I also don't like to carry really high dollar gear on the street.

I know, kind of Ayoob of me, but could be a little validity.

That's a great point. I think ease of replacement is another huge one, right up there with price. Clinch Picks going into production is what finally convinced me to buy one (ok, three, but...). I'd rather have a China Pick sitting in evidence than a nice Ban Tang version.

El Cid
06-23-2016, 09:17 PM
^This. Making a good PD that won't roll when you actually hit something, is easily carried, and fits most hand shapes is FAR more challenging than a straight knife. There's a sweet spot between neck and blade length that's amazingly difficult to hit.

That being said here's our prototype just back from our Chinese manufacturer and is the collaboration between ShivWorks and Watson Knives. Paul I'll have this out to you in the mail today so you can punch some shit with it. We're looking at a price point of $110-$110 for these retail.

8726


I'm hoping to have an initial run of 3-500 with trainers by years end.

I'm in!

Paul D
06-23-2016, 10:07 PM
I have been using this sheath from Matthew's Fabrication (http://matthewsfabrication.com/product/kabar-tdi-knife-sheath/) for a couple of weeks. It was $39 shipped to my door in 10 days. It is much better than the stock sheath.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/pnduong/IMG_1812_zpsvz2fxbub.jpg

Chuck Whitlock
06-23-2016, 10:52 PM
That's interesting. I think Chuck mentioned he carries in his pocket as well.

Have you tried accessing it from the pocket while entangled? Seems that particularly if I'm in a FUT it would be hard to access the pocket at all.

I have not. My physical game is less than it should be, and I also don't have a trainer. My current uniform is a tan shirt with (authorized) brown jeans, and in the jeans pocket it rides just below the top of the pocket. I believe that Chuck Haggard carries his in a cargo pocket, and pants w/cargo pockets are a no-no here outside SWAT.






Also the handle is a lighter bronze color so it stood out against my dark blue uniform shirt.

And that's how I got away with it behind the taser...navy blue uniform and black duty gear. It would be far too obvious in my current uniform.

SLG
06-24-2016, 08:55 AM
I prefer a PD, the issue has always been finding one that hides well on a duty belt while still being functional. The PD designed by Craig was close to perfect but never made it to production. I carry Ian Wendt's design daily as it's the closest one I've found to Craig's design. It fits my hand, and it's clearly designed by a guy that does the work but the bronze handle caused numerous folks to ask about it so it went back to a concealed carry piece.

Joseph Timbs designed a PD that is pretty robust, and well designed. I carried that one on my duty belt for a couple months, it worked very well but it has a stainless handle which stood out against my uniform enough to be noticed fairly often. It was a T&E piece, and there were some issues with the sheath that have since been corrected. While those issues were being corrected I put the TDI back on my belt. I have wrapped the handle with a black tennis racket type grip tape. That seems to help it blend in with my uniform better. A close friend borrowed and is wearing the Timbs PD with new sheath on his duty gear at this time, and reports are really favorable. I think I'm going to have to fight him to get it back.

Overall, I really prefer a PD, the challenge has been to find one that is designed by a knife maker AND fighter. Most are made by guys that are artisan knife makers so we end up with a gorgeous but nonfunctional knife. I have boxes of PDs that were a waste of money, and time. It's taken me 20 years to find 2 I'm willing to carry all the time. Either I'm too picky or making a functional PD is more challenging than I realize.


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Copy, thanks. I went down the PD road pretty hard about 15 years ago, and came up with the same issues. About 10 years ago I designed a PD very similar to Craig's, that Wilson Combat ended up carrying for a while. I don't think they still do.

So, if you went to an asymmetrical PD instead of the TDI, it would only allow access by one hand, correct? Would you still have it for the left hand?

JCS
06-24-2016, 10:41 AM
I have been using this sheath from Matthew's Fabrication (http://matthewsfabrication.com/product/kabar-tdi-knife-sheath/) for a couple of weeks. It was $39 shipped to my door in 10 days. It is much better than the stock sheath.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/pnduong/IMG_1812_zpsvz2fxbub.jpg

That one looks nice. Thanks.


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Cecil Burch
06-24-2016, 11:15 AM
[QUOTE=SLG;463361
So, if you went to an asymmetrical PD instead of the TDI, it would only allow access by one hand, correct? Would you still have it for the left hand?[/QUOTE]

That's what I ended up going to myself. I could not find a good concealable way to have the PD accessible to both hands, so I went to making it set up for my left hand. My idea is to start hitting a guy with left jabs - which, empty handed are not the best go-to move for self-defense, but become a little more useful with a pointy, stabby piece of metal poking out while jabbing. I would prefer to have it set up for both hands, but I was not smart enough to figure out how.

Wondering Beard
06-24-2016, 11:19 AM
^This. Making a good PD that won't roll when you actually hit something, is easily carried, and fits most hand shapes is FAR more challenging than a straight knife. There's a sweet spot between neck and blade length that's amazingly difficult to hit.

That being said here's our prototype just back from our Chinese manufacturer and is the collaboration between ShivWorks and Watson Knives. Paul I'll have this out to you in the mail today so you can punch some shit with it. We're looking at a price point of $110-$110 for these retail.

8726

I've seen a few pics of that knife (or one like it) in one of Joe Watson's social media pages and I was quite impressed. Whenever you have that out, I'm in on one or more.

Paul Sharp
06-24-2016, 12:39 PM
Copy, thanks. I went down the PD road pretty hard about 15 years ago, and came up with the same issues. About 10 years ago I designed a PD very similar to Craig's, that Wilson Combat ended up carrying for a while. I don't think they still do.

So, if you went to an asymmetrical PD instead of the TDI, it would only allow access by one hand, correct? Would you still have it for the left hand?

I run Ian's design horizontal on my belt just forward of the left hip so I can access with either hand, he set up the sheath for me so I can run it horizontal or vertical based on what I'm wearing or doing. If I have to run them vertical, I still put them forward of my left hip so I can access with either hand. I like to do boxing blast drills where I open the IFWA window with a series crosses then drop either hand down to access the PD so the 4th or 5th count in the combo has a little heat on it.

I'd really like to see your design if you have any pics.

SouthNarc
06-24-2016, 02:29 PM
IIRC the one Paul carries from Ian is symmetrical.

SAWBONES
06-24-2016, 02:47 PM
I have been using this sheath from Matthew's Fabrication (http://matthewsfabrication.com/product/kabar-tdi-knife-sheath/) for a couple of weeks. It was $39 shipped to my door in 10 days. It is much better than the stock sheath.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/pnduong/IMG_1812_zpsvz2fxbub.jpg

Thanks for that. Just ordered one.

SLG
06-24-2016, 04:06 PM
I run Ian's design horizontal on my belt just forward of the left hip so I can access with either hand, he set up the sheath for me so I can run it horizontal or vertical based on what I'm wearing or doing. If I have to run them vertical, I still put them forward of my left hip so I can access with either hand. I like to do boxing blast drills where I open the IFWA window with a series crosses then drop either hand down to access the PD so the 4th or 5th count in the combo has a little heat on it.

I'd really like to see your design if you have any pics.

Thanks again for elaborating.

The first link shows a similar knife. WC created this version after mine, since I guess people who like 1911's really like the grip panels;-) The base knife is the same though, as far as I recall.

http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/m20-3-b-k-by-wilson-tactical-135754.aspx?ReturnUrl=Wilson-Tactical.aspx%3fPage%3d

The second link shows more of what mine looked like. They altered it for this version, with various features that I left off, like serrations and color, but it is basically the same knife, including the handle I spec'd.

A little context. This knife was made for a friend of mine who was OCONUS for over a year. He wanted a proper PD, but as none existed, I showed him what I thought a proper one would look like. I favor a blade no longer than about 2.5", maybe shorter. He wanted a longer blade, so that's what he got. He is also much bigger than me, and wanted a wider neck. It is too wide for my fingers as shown. Finally, the handle is a little on the thin side for my taste, but he also wanted it to work with gloves and though he's bigger than I am, he has less beefy hands, with longer fingers, so as is, it fits his hands well.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/995573-Brand-New-Wilson-Combat-Wilson-Tactical-Knives-Model-21-Push-Dagger

EM_
06-24-2016, 04:31 PM
^This. Making a good PD that won't roll when you actually hit something, is easily carried, and fits most hand shapes is FAR more challenging than a straight knife. There's a sweet spot between neck and blade length that's amazingly difficult to hit.

That being said here's our prototype just back from our Chinese manufacturer and is the collaboration between ShivWorks and Watson Knives. Paul I'll have this out to you in the mail today so you can punch some shit with it. We're looking at a price point of $110-$110 for these retail.

8726

Yes please!!!!

Beat Trash
06-25-2016, 08:36 AM
^This. Making a good PD that won't roll when you actually hit something, is easily carried, and fits most hand shapes is FAR more challenging than a straight knife. There's a sweet spot between neck and blade length that's amazingly difficult to hit.

That being said here's our prototype just back from our Chinese manufacturer and is the collaboration between ShivWorks and Watson Knives. Paul I'll have this out to you in the mail today so you can punch some shit with it. We're looking at a price point of $110-$110 for these retail.

8726

Please let us know when the final product is available for sale. If it's similar to this with a decent steel, I'm in for one.

Paul Sharp
06-28-2016, 01:30 PM
I came home Saturday night, (after being in the range with SDave from 0730-2230), to find Craig's pushdagger waiting. It was like the best day EVER!!

After a couple days of shadow boxing with this in hand, I'm impressed. It's obviously been designed by a fighter. Here's a few pics so you can see how it sits in my hand, and in comparison to my EDC pistol.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160628/6eec0164375f4618dd9dcb6018fca649.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160628/9b6872987fd2ce4aae179140ff95f337.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160628/ed93359513968f00101b5b7f0b0387a2.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160628/a3c70cd28531d40ff992862302ca9f28.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160628/3e58a34b0fe0ba43980e3bf90afc8cea.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160628/7b4d53967c4a76cc484867d1dc71008b.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160628/7acd4efdfb2df796520082ce1d1dbd04.jpg


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NickA
06-28-2016, 01:48 PM
Looks great.
So are you carrying a Beretta because you've been hanging around on PF, or are you hanging around PF because you're carrying a Beretta? 😉

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Paul Sharp
06-28-2016, 03:05 PM
Looks great.
So are you carrying a Beretta because you've been hanging around on PF, or are you hanging around PF because you're carrying a Beretta? [emoji6]

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Both! :) I started carrying a 92 when I did UC stuff because a decocker/safety made me a little less concerned with decocking myself while carrying the pistol AIWB, sans holster.


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Jackdog
06-28-2016, 03:13 PM
Looks awesome! Can't wait for These to be available.


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